Another goof is that the episode starts with riker waking up exhausted, even though data and laforge hadnt started the modified sensor that penetrated subspace which detected the aliens.
I wish the poem before "Ode to Spot" got more attention. "I began to expound upon tidal effects when you asked me to stop, looking somewhat perplexed. So I did not explain why the sunset turns red and we watched the occurrence in silence instead." This reminds me of Wesley telling Data he's missing the point about wrapping paper in "Measure of a Man" (and many similar moments). Even if it doesn't evoke an emotional response, this poem serves another common purpose of art: describing your (i.e., Data's) experience to others.
I always liked this episode. Using the holodeck to recreate the lab. I like when they show the holodeck as a tool as much as a recreation area. I’m reminded of Code of Honour where Tasha demonstrates the Aikido training program. This is how I wish the technology was used more often. Kind of in the Nth Degree too, but that was more a plot device. The atmosphere was well presented. And who doesn’t like An Ode to Spot? I put this episode in the category with Conspiracy from season 1. Solid idea. Missed opportunity to follow up on.
I think "The Nth Degree" was actually the first time I saw the holodeck as a kid. I didn't even quite get what it was, thinking it was kind of the computer core.
A thing I like about this episode is that Data is impacted by the "threat of the week". He is immune to them so often that it becomes a bit of a trope, so when he is affected it slightly ups the sense of danger.
Great holodeck scene, I agree. That set a high bar that unfortunately the payoff couldn't clear. Still, a nice take on the classic alien abduction story. Data's poetry is outstanding - the crew should appreciate it more!
I also remember liking the buildup with the creepy atmosphere a lot more than the payoff we go towards the end. And the holodeck scene is among my favorites, too! I always thought it was funny how their really vague instructions completely altered the nature of the table at one point lol. But I thought it was a nice touch how the real table looked actually different than the final holodeck model (if I remember correctly)
1. Riker doesn't go to Troi immediately, he goes to Crusher to deal with his exhaustion problem. Which again, was the right response, and I'm glad that we're seeing competence from the Enterprise crew members. 2. I'm not sure why you didn't think the rift problem and solution weren't technobabble: Sure, there weren't a lot of competing arguments about which kind of techity tech they were going to use, but it's plainly tech-sounding words just being used without any kind of real explanation of what they were doing. 3. The holodeck scene is what I considered the saving grace of the episode. 4. How I'd end it: I agree with leaving out the tech threat of the week, and instead have way more than 2 people start going missing. Add in Ensign So-and-So, Ensign Cheerleader, and Ensign The-Ugly-One, and then they recapture Riker and Riker now has to lead a more complex escape attempt without the ship attacking for him.
This is one of my twenty or so favorite TNG episodes ever, and I've watched your Rumination three times now, about a month apart each time (starting when you first uploaded it). While I wouldn't call it one of your best Ruminations, I do enjoy it a lot, in large part because it reminds me of how much I love the episode itself.
I completely agree about that scene Lore. You mentioned the fish people and I was like what the heck episode is this? And then you mentioned the ode to Spot and I was like, ohhh! That one with the awesome holideck scene, I love this episode. Also, once I was reminded of the ending, which I'd entirely forgotten, I was like... Oh yeah, I loved half of this episode.
“Ode to Spot” was hilarious! ⭐️ The author really worked on a poem that’s so awful it’s good. Why didn’t Riker grab the other crew person and jump through the moment the vortex open? (Because they needed to stretch the run time…) Except for the holodeck scene, it’s artificial horror.
This episode always stands out in my mind. When I was a kid, my dad and my brother watched TNG regularly and my brother had taken to recording on VCR any episode he wasn't able to see on the day so I grew up repteadly watching this ep. I was about four or five so this ep seriously gave me the creeps and I couldn't watch a bunch of it so fast forward through a lot of it, but I still loved it. Partially because hey it's Star Trek, but also just because there was so much good day in the life stuff.
Summary: Enterprise crew members report that they go to sleep but wake up exhausted; a mysterious subspace pocket forms inside a cargo bay. (It's the episode in which they use the holodeck te recreate what happens when three crew-members go to sleep. Quite interesting! Also: Data's poetry :-)
11:07 - I actually would have preferred that transition better if it didn't show Geordi in the hallway. I think it would have been more effective if Riker had laid down, closed his eyes, hold on that for about 5 seconds, then door chime. The camera stays on Riker as the chime sounds again, and Riker opens his eyes. Riker sits up, the camera staying on him, then swings around as he says "Enter" and the door opens - we're now looking over Riker's shoulder - to show Geordi enter and tell him it's 7 a.m. That cut to Geordi in the hall kinda robbed the "just laid down" moment, IMO.
I think it's perfect. Like it is done it keeps a bit of doubt, which your version wouldn't have. It kinda looks like the kind of transition you would see if it happened normally, but it still feels kinda off (which helps sell the point that it is not normal). For once, probably the way it is cut, and also, you'd expect a scene with some other people come in between but it goes right back to Geordi and Riker.
I love the holodeck scene, it's genuinely spooky but there's one little thing about it that I found pretty awkward - when Riker describes something he doesn't quite remember, Troi is the one to prompt the computer to make the change. When any other character does it it, they tell the computer themselves. I'd've liked it if Riker had directly prompted any of the changes and Troi had been more of a moderator for the session than Literally Repeating What Riker Just Said Except The Computer Listens This Time.
I never saw this episode before I played the first mission they show up in for STO, so these things freaked me the heck out. Going back through this (I actually think this was my first time!) when Worf is in the holodeck and they mention a table I made the connection and went “Oh shoot… it’s *those things.”*
Funny was Riker's hair. He's usually so quaffed. This was the Star Trek 'Fire in the Sky' episode. Funny, that film only was released five months later. I wonder if the writers got the idea from the pending film?
That was a great observation. It did seem the ship threat was shoehorned in at the last minute. Your suggestion for the ending would have been a more fitting conclusion. I wondered myself how they could go from it being a personal matter to the ship’s hull being threatened.
I always put on "Night Terrors" thinking it's this episode and instead I get that stupid one moon circles one. At least this one does atmosphere well. The holodeck scene is absolutely chilling to this day. Especially the clicking.
The holodeck scene was chilling. I watched it here alone and was noticing how I’m being freaked out slightly. Scary. I had to chill out as I heard they amputated Riker’s arm. Not cool story wise but I enjoyed the sensation. Good writing. Till yeah the end. What if they sent him over and they cut into him immediately? Cool Riker took that risk that no one mentioned. Pile of bodies would be like. Ooh! Good episode. I have trouble watching TNG. So much I didn’t know Troi appeared with hair cut like that. This was fun. I enjoy that feeling of dread, the unease. Could have kept that and truly gone there but hey. Star Trek. Ty Lore
Agreed pretty much 100%. The build up and the holodeck scene are one of my favorite TNG moments, but the ending is definitely a let down from what it could be....even if they re-did some of the atmosphere of the last scenes a bit, it would succeed in being more creepy.
Actually ;) there was a sequel in the comic books. They were staging an invasion and Starfleet had to fight them off. A fleet of ships albeit a small one. Back in the 90s. Comics don't suffer budget cuts like tv. Or better novels. Like the Destiny Trilogy. Now that could easily be a miniseries on its own.
I really liked this epi..TNG has tried to do a horror suspense like episode but this one hits home bc it truly taps into a humans fear of 1. A fear of kidnapping and 2. A lost of control. And yes, that holodeck scene was great in convening a true genius sense of fear and unease and the final scene with Riker left us with that unease which was good.
I have fond memories of this episode. I found it really creepy, which I enjoyed. Star Trek hadn't really done the classic 'abducted by aliens' thing before. I was disappointed they never returned. I don't remember the threat to the ship, but I agree, the threat to the characters was sufficient, so your suggestions would likely have made this a stronger episode.
I was a little disappointed in the conclusion as well but this episode creeps me out so much that it makes the voyager episode creepier to me lol(you know the one). And the holodeck scene is FANTASTIC
The episode itself was never very interesting to me. But that holodeck scene was just amazing to watch. I also really like how the devs at STO took this episode and made it so much more than just an "alien abductions in SPACE!" plot, which is really rather boring on it's own. Now, when I watch this, it's not just some random aliens abducting people and doing bizarre experiments, it's the Solanae preparing the way for their Iconian masters.
Dear Lorerunner, asking what would i have done to write a proper ending to this episode is a real challenge. I admit, the solanae are something close to the borg. Lets face it, they can take ppl from the current flagship of the federation. The Galaxy Class is not just any ship. Its the top of the line. These aliens can detect the ship, detect the ppl on it, pull them off their bed and do horrible things to them without anyone nocticing. I wouldnt have created such an Uber Antagonist in the first place. Since they come from the subspace, there is no running from them, no warp drive, no shield, no phaser can protect you from those people. Its beyond horrible. How do you end such a story? Tech your way out was possibly the only string they had. I dont know, i would pull the strings on Picard, after all he is the diplomat. Id have him talk a way out. The Solanae are so far beyond starfleet tech, that there is no chance to win any kind of armed conflict with them. So yeah, id send Picard, not Riker. Id find a way to communicate with them and settle some kind of peace with them. Somehow. Yeah, i know, the ticking clock stuff. We really wouldnt need that in any TNG show. It be so much better for developing good stories. Thanks for another real good rumination and yeah, the holodeck scene really still gets me shivvering! Like you said, its gold. One little critic, please Lore, stop using the term "whatsherface" when you dont know someone by name. Just say you dont know and get over it. "whatsherface" has a ring of "i dont care" to it and i dont think you dont care, otherwise you wouldnt mention that person at all in the course of your rumination. Right? Thanks for considering :) LLAP
I think the downfall of this episode was the subspace technobabble. I’d be surprised if most casual viewers could understand what the hell was going on.
That is incredible failsauce. I can't string together a coherent sentence in German, but just from opera titles and board games and such, I can think of all sorts of word-parts that could be assembled into a word similar to "Schisms" in meaning. Just grab a paper by Sigmund Freud and look for a long word like "Geschelleschaft" or "Bestraphkeitzeug" or something. Whichever translator committed this goof should hang his head in shame.
I share your frustration with spoiler-trailers, not just for Trek. I will never forgive the Pitch Black film trailer either. The holodeck scene: gush away, it was freaky awesome. The rest of the show, not so much. Less is more when it comes to horror. Don't reveal the Solanae at all, just hint at their appearance in the darkness. Or have them wear medical masks.
There is also a goof in this episode. In Picard's closing log entry he says that the whole crew are 'safe and accounted for' - when a creman died!
I don't see the issue. That guy isn't in any danger and everyone knows what happened to him.
Sus
Which crewman?
Another goof is that the episode starts with riker waking up exhausted, even though data and laforge hadnt started the modified sensor that penetrated subspace which detected the aliens.
@@markequinox Weird you'd come here, years later, to make a reply without even watching the video.
I wish the poem before "Ode to Spot" got more attention.
"I began to expound upon tidal effects
when you asked me to stop, looking somewhat perplexed.
So I did not explain why the sunset turns red
and we watched the occurrence in silence instead."
This reminds me of Wesley telling Data he's missing the point about wrapping paper in "Measure of a Man" (and many similar moments). Even if it doesn't evoke an emotional response, this poem serves another common purpose of art: describing your (i.e., Data's) experience to others.
I always liked this episode. Using the holodeck to recreate the lab. I like when they show the holodeck as a tool as much as a recreation area. I’m reminded of Code of Honour where Tasha demonstrates the Aikido training program. This is how I wish the technology was used more often. Kind of in the Nth Degree too, but that was more a plot device. The atmosphere was well presented. And who doesn’t like An Ode to Spot?
I put this episode in the category with Conspiracy from season 1. Solid idea. Missed opportunity to follow up on.
I think "The Nth Degree" was actually the first time I saw the holodeck as a kid. I didn't even quite get what it was, thinking it was kind of the computer core.
A thing I like about this episode is that Data is impacted by the "threat of the week". He is immune to them so often that it becomes a bit of a trope, so when he is affected it slightly ups the sense of danger.
Great holodeck scene, I agree. That set a high bar that unfortunately the payoff couldn't clear. Still, a nice take on the classic alien abduction story. Data's poetry is outstanding - the crew should appreciate it more!
I also remember liking the buildup with the creepy atmosphere a lot more than the payoff we go towards the end. And the holodeck scene is among my favorites, too! I always thought it was funny how their really vague instructions completely altered the nature of the table at one point lol. But I thought it was a nice touch how the real table looked actually different than the final holodeck model (if I remember correctly)
I like how it was Worf who came up with the way to get to the aliens.
1. Riker doesn't go to Troi immediately, he goes to Crusher to deal with his exhaustion problem. Which again, was the right response, and I'm glad that we're seeing competence from the Enterprise crew members.
2. I'm not sure why you didn't think the rift problem and solution weren't technobabble: Sure, there weren't a lot of competing arguments about which kind of techity tech they were going to use, but it's plainly tech-sounding words just being used without any kind of real explanation of what they were doing.
3. The holodeck scene is what I considered the saving grace of the episode.
4. How I'd end it: I agree with leaving out the tech threat of the week, and instead have way more than 2 people start going missing. Add in Ensign So-and-So, Ensign Cheerleader, and Ensign The-Ugly-One, and then they recapture Riker and Riker now has to lead a more complex escape attempt without the ship attacking for him.
This is one of my twenty or so favorite TNG episodes ever, and I've watched your Rumination three times now, about a month apart each time (starting when you first uploaded it). While I wouldn't call it one of your best Ruminations, I do enjoy it a lot, in large part because it reminds me of how much I love the episode itself.
I completely agree about that scene Lore. You mentioned the fish people and I was like what the heck episode is this? And then you mentioned the ode to Spot and I was like, ohhh! That one with the awesome holideck scene, I love this episode.
Also, once I was reminded of the ending, which I'd entirely forgotten, I was like... Oh yeah, I loved half of this episode.
“Ode to Spot” was hilarious! ⭐️ The author really worked on a poem that’s so awful it’s good.
Why didn’t Riker grab the other crew person and jump through the moment the vortex open? (Because they needed to stretch the run time…)
Except for the holodeck scene, it’s artificial horror.
This episode always stands out in my mind. When I was a kid, my dad and my brother watched TNG regularly and my brother had taken to recording on VCR any episode he wasn't able to see on the day so I grew up repteadly watching this ep. I was about four or five so this ep seriously gave me the creeps and I couldn't watch a bunch of it so fast forward through a lot of it, but I still loved it. Partially because hey it's Star Trek, but also just because there was so much good day in the life stuff.
Summary: Enterprise crew members report that they go to sleep but wake up exhausted; a mysterious subspace pocket forms inside a cargo bay. (It's the episode in which they use the holodeck te recreate what happens when three crew-members go to sleep. Quite interesting! Also: Data's poetry :-)
11:07 - I actually would have preferred that transition better if it didn't show Geordi in the hallway.
I think it would have been more effective if Riker had laid down, closed his eyes, hold on that for about 5 seconds, then door chime. The camera stays on Riker as the chime sounds again, and Riker opens his eyes. Riker sits up, the camera staying on him, then swings around as he says "Enter" and the door opens - we're now looking over Riker's shoulder - to show Geordi enter and tell him it's 7 a.m.
That cut to Geordi in the hall kinda robbed the "just laid down" moment, IMO.
I think it's perfect. Like it is done it keeps a bit of doubt, which your version wouldn't have. It kinda looks like the kind of transition you would see if it happened normally, but it still feels kinda off (which helps sell the point that it is not normal). For once, probably the way it is cut, and also, you'd expect a scene with some other people come in between but it goes right back to Geordi and Riker.
I love the holodeck scene, it's genuinely spooky but there's one little thing about it that I found pretty awkward - when Riker describes something he doesn't quite remember, Troi is the one to prompt the computer to make the change. When any other character does it it, they tell the computer themselves. I'd've liked it if Riker had directly prompted any of the changes and Troi had been more of a moderator for the session than Literally Repeating What Riker Just Said Except The Computer Listens This Time.
I never saw this episode before I played the first mission they show up in for STO, so these things freaked me the heck out. Going back through this (I actually think this was my first time!) when Worf is in the holodeck and they mention a table I made the connection and went “Oh shoot… it’s *those things.”*
Funny was Riker's hair. He's usually so quaffed. This was the Star Trek 'Fire in the Sky' episode. Funny, that film only was released five months later. I wonder if the writers got the idea from the pending film?
That was a great observation. It did seem the ship threat was shoehorned in at the last minute. Your suggestion for the ending would have been a more fitting conclusion. I wondered myself how they could go from it being a personal matter to the ship’s hull being threatened.
I always put on "Night Terrors" thinking it's this episode and instead I get that stupid one moon circles one. At least this one does atmosphere well. The holodeck scene is absolutely chilling to this day. Especially the clicking.
Where are you?????
The holodeck scene was chilling. I watched it here alone and was noticing how I’m being freaked out slightly. Scary. I had to chill out as I heard they amputated Riker’s arm.
Not cool story wise but I enjoyed the sensation. Good writing. Till yeah the end.
What if they sent him over and they cut into him immediately? Cool Riker took that risk that no one mentioned.
Pile of bodies would be like. Ooh!
Good episode. I have trouble watching TNG. So much I didn’t know Troi appeared with hair cut like that. This was fun. I enjoy that feeling of dread, the unease. Could have kept that and truly gone there but hey. Star Trek.
Ty Lore
Agreed pretty much 100%. The build up and the holodeck scene are one of my favorite TNG moments, but the ending is definitely a let down from what it could be....even if they re-did some of the atmosphere of the last scenes a bit, it would succeed in being more creepy.
Actually ;) there was a sequel in the comic books. They were staging an invasion and Starfleet had to fight them off. A fleet of ships albeit a small one. Back in the 90s. Comics don't suffer budget cuts like tv. Or better novels. Like the Destiny Trilogy. Now that could easily be a miniseries on its own.
I really liked this epi..TNG has tried to do a horror suspense like episode but this one hits home bc it truly taps into a humans fear of 1. A fear of kidnapping and 2. A lost of control. And yes, that holodeck scene was great in convening a true genius sense of fear and unease and the final scene with Riker left us with that unease which was good.
Love myself some endothermic quadrupeds of the felis catus variety.
😻
I have fond memories of this episode. I found it really creepy, which I enjoyed. Star Trek hadn't really done the classic 'abducted by aliens' thing before. I was disappointed they never returned. I don't remember the threat to the ship, but I agree, the threat to the characters was sufficient, so your suggestions would likely have made this a stronger episode.
“Fish people in monk robes”. THEN MAKE A NEW SPECIES TO EXIST IN THE POCKET SPACE. The idea needed a second episode. Needed it.
There was a comic book sequel.
Now i want to listen to TOOL :)
another gr8 ruminaton Lore!
I just fired up STO again, I don't remember them in there but will look for them.
Maybe they'll look for you ;)
Well, they spent 10 minutes trying to remember a table, so I can only assume they had trouble getting enough footage.
"all the spare time I have" ...
I was a little disappointed in the conclusion as well but this episode creeps me out so much that it makes the voyager episode creepier to me lol(you know the one). And the holodeck scene is FANTASTIC
Luckily in my country they didn't show any episode related trailers for Star Trek.
That is such a good scene
The episode itself was never very interesting to me. But that holodeck scene was just amazing to watch. I also really like how the devs at STO took this episode and made it so much more than just an "alien abductions in SPACE!" plot, which is really rather boring on it's own. Now, when I watch this, it's not just some random aliens abducting people and doing bizarre experiments, it's the Solanae preparing the way for their Iconian masters.
Dear Lorerunner, asking what would i have done to write a proper ending to this episode is a real challenge. I admit, the solanae are something close to the borg. Lets face it, they can take ppl from the current flagship of the federation. The Galaxy Class is not just any ship. Its the top of the line. These aliens can detect the ship, detect the ppl on it, pull them off their bed and do horrible things to them without anyone nocticing. I wouldnt have created such an Uber Antagonist in the first place. Since they come from the subspace, there is no running from them, no warp drive, no shield, no phaser can protect you from those people. Its beyond horrible. How do you end such a story? Tech your way out was possibly the only string they had. I dont know, i would pull the strings on Picard, after all he is the diplomat. Id have him talk a way out. The Solanae are so far beyond starfleet tech, that there is no chance to win any kind of armed conflict with them. So yeah, id send Picard, not Riker. Id find a way to communicate with them and settle some kind of peace with them. Somehow. Yeah, i know, the ticking clock stuff. We really wouldnt need that in any TNG show. It be so much better for developing good stories.
Thanks for another real good rumination and yeah, the holodeck scene really still gets me shivvering! Like you said, its gold.
One little critic, please Lore, stop using the term "whatsherface" when you dont know someone by name. Just say you dont know and get over it. "whatsherface" has a ring of "i dont care" to it and i dont think you dont care, otherwise you wouldnt mention that person at all in the course of your rumination. Right?
Thanks for considering :)
LLAP
Funny thing, I never saw the trailers or I sure don't remember them even if I watched them right along with my mom.
I am going to necro this video and point out I am playing STO while watching this.
Btw is Adele a french name? :-D
I think the downfall of this episode was the subspace technobabble. I’d be surprised if most casual viewers could understand what the hell was going on.
Speaking of spoilers, the german title of this episode reads "kidnapped into subspace" 🤦🏽♂️
That is incredible failsauce. I can't string together a coherent sentence in German, but just from opera titles and board games and such, I can think of all sorts of word-parts that could be assembled into a word similar to "Schisms" in meaning. Just grab a paper by Sigmund Freud and look for a long word like "Geschelleschaft" or "Bestraphkeitzeug" or something. Whichever translator committed this goof should hang his head in shame.
Such a good video !
thx m8
I cannot watch this episode and NOT think of what i know from Star Trek Online....
Yes?
I share your frustration with spoiler-trailers, not just for Trek. I will never forgive the Pitch Black film trailer either.
The holodeck scene: gush away, it was freaky awesome. The rest of the show, not so much.
Less is more when it comes to horror. Don't reveal the Solanae at all, just hint at their appearance in the darkness. Or have them wear medical masks.
The episode was lame, but the holodeck scene was good and Ode to Spot