Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S6E18: Starship Mine
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People don't like Hutchinson not because they don't want to engage in small talk; it's because once he gets going he doesn't know when to shut up. Add to that him being a Commander means you don't want to seem insulting by cutting him short for no real reason.
Hey, it's Tuvok! Hey , it's Lyta Alexander! Hey... is that Dodger?
I liked the smirk on Worf's face after the "Worf beat you to it" part.
By the way, I'm pretty sure Baryons are just normal matter particles. The Baryon sweep gets rid of "excess baryons". It's literally a space duster. A space duster made of deadly lasers.
Protons and neutrons are baryons. There are other types, but they are all unstable and would decay away on their own without any need of beeing actively removed from the ship.
So shouldn't the baryon sweep literally disintegrate the ship on the subatomic level?
Of *course* Picard had the advantage the whole time: He's on his home turf, whereas the idiots are in new territory. But what was rather frustrating was that there was never any kind of reveal about who these people were or what they were hoping to accomplish.
Another thought: Would this episode have been better on TOS rather than TNG? Picard is doing a lot of Kirk-like stuff in this.
Part of what made this so interesting/fun was how out of type it was. Kinda like the Q episode in which we get to see a young Picard punch 7’ tall Nausicans.
One working for Soren, one for Starfleet intelligence in the Maquis division, one for the Vorlons... who wasn’t playing a hand in this episode?!
Also, I like to think Trilithium is sent to shipbuilding yards to create perfect cuts for hull plating with beams, or to terraforming projects.
The absolute look of fear that Riker has when Hutch discovers him at the reception and then Data practicing facial features... all within a minute... classic trek comedy gold.
I do enjoy when they explore in universe mundane things like regular maintenance & the logistics of running a Starship
You just uploaded the "Voot" the weekend before this came out; by memory I might have had this episode in the running for one of my favorites (maybe not top 5, but certainly top 10 or 15), if I hadn't rewatched it and confirmed that it isn't actually as good as I remember it from back in the day. In particular my memory had Picard a lot more desperate as the baryon sweep closes in on him; in the actual episode he barely raises his voice while climbing up into the rafter thing, whereas I remembered it in roughly the same tone of voice as in Cause and Effect, where he yells "Abandon ship!" just before the bridge is engulfed in flames. In other words, it wasn't nearly as intense as my memory told me it was.
Regarding Patricia Tallman, remember that she was also one of the most frequent faces among Worf's security teams responding to intruder alerts. And that she and Tony Todd (who played both Kurn and the old man version of Jake Sisko) starred together in Tom Savini's remake of "Night Of The Living Dead".
Now consider the structure of "First Contact" as a zombie horror movie. And imagine how wonderful it could have been, had Michael Horton's role as Lieutenant Daniels has been given to Patricia Tallman instead. Giving her a moment to comment on her prior experience fighting against this enemy...
Would have been glorious. Such a shame her goldsuit character was killed in DS9's "The Way of the Warrior".
Similar to Lore's comment at the end I like to think some poor janitor went up to Picard after the incident and said "DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO GET ALL THIS BLOOD OUT OF THE CARPET?!?!"
OKAY! So it's funny you bring up the Generations tie-in, because I absolutely see this episode as the lead-in to that movie. Not only in that these are, in my headcanon, 1,000% Sauron's goons, but in that this is the true start of Picard's transformation into the warmonger, Larry. As you mentioned, Picard literally kills, or puts others into situations where they will be killed, everyone but Nervous Jerry. He gets a taste for blood here, a taste that we see become a full course meal on the big screen. This episode also establishes Picard's interest in horseback riding. Something we have never seen and will never see again...until Generations.
I also think that Picard had to go to the Transporter room because the computer shutdown localized all systems prior to disabling command functions. Kind of like a spooldown.
I do have a problem with the Baryion sweep though. They say it will destroy organic matter, including tissue samples. So what about the Arboretum? What about the pets on the ship, and plants? I don't recall Picard taking his fish with him either. In light of that, the entire procedure seems like a bad idea and exceedingly difficult to pull off in a matter of hours. And in the case of the Arboretum and Hydroponics, it would completely destroy those sections. Another issue I have is that the terrorists come up from the Battle Bridge as Picard is leaving the main bridge. How did they get access to what should conceivably be one of the most highly secured areas on the ship? There are so many holes I could drive a truck through them. Another reason PERFECT for leading into Generations.
Meanwhile the rest of the crew is trapped in a season 1 episode
Actually we see Picard's interest in riding horses in the season two episode, Pen Pals.
@@SmallWorldAcademy I stand corrected!
One of my top 10 TNG episodes to re-watch. Tuvok and Leeta Alexander vs Picard and a saddle
Yeah, this is more "Home Alone" than "Die Hard."
Definitely thank you for helping me think about film production. I’m definitely referring to all of your videos. Again thank you.
Excellent as always.
Every serious riser has his own saddle
The word I would use is 'Aesthetically Warm" to describe the 1701-D bridge
Time this is what Home Alone would've been without the humor
The Maqui do not come into existence until after the season 7 episode, Journey's End. Their first appearance was in the Season 7 episode , Preemptive Strike.
I do like the payoff at the end of this episode and it comes from Picard. When Work explains that there are no survivors. The look on Picard's face said that he knew Worf was lying, but he understands Klingon culture enough to accept it.
This wasn't Die Hard because this wasn't a Christmas episode!!
And he didn't have a machine gun. Ho ho ho.
So we see the Enterprise undergo this baryon sweep which apparently removes the build up of dangerous particles. Okay, so why do we never see or hear of any other starship ever doing or needing this before or after this episode? It must be important as they have an entire orbital facility and base to do it with. Why was this never a problem for Voyager, which would have done many times the mileage (light yearage?) than the Enterprise, discounting the Enterprise’s trip to the edge of reality, and had no way of doing serious maintenance like this. Do the lift and seperate nacelles make the baryon sweep obsolete?
this is why Patrick Stewart should not have creative control...
You didn’t like this episode? I’ve never seen die hard, but enjoyed this.
More like Home Alone in space. Still a good basic action episode to “butch up” Picard before the very cerebral upcoming “The Chase.”
Tim Russ taken down by a Vulcan neck pinch: continuity and involuntary foreshadowing together! Very satisfying. 🖖🏼
Smalltalk: instinctive for some, easily mimicked by others (Data), totally had to be learned for me, and I was a bartender too! It’s impossible to be taught it, it has to be learned by trial and error. Many errors by me. 🙄 My idea of talking about the weather was to give a lesson in meteorology… However I could easily take a “Hutch” down, as Data did, by smothering them with erudition. 😅
This is a definite example of an episode that used to be a favorite of mine, and having rewatched it last night (7/15/22, writing on 16), it really doesn't hold up. It's well directed, but the writing is loaded with "just go with it", and the nitpicker in me now feels compelled to tear it to shreds, where before I would have been entirely drawn in by the action plot. I love Picard as an action hero, and so the bare bones here is great, but the details just fall apart.
Probably my favorite example - what happened to Hutchinson? He got shot by one of the same guns that got used on Geordi; Crusher doesn't even mention Hutchinson. It's as if he was disintegrated, but we saw that he got shot just like Geordi did, and yet he just kinda dies. (As I'm writing this, Lore brings it up as well.) I don't know if I believe Hutchinson died; I never noticed him being covered up. I just figured Beverly was annoying him in order to concentrate entirely on Geordi. So maybe he's dead and maybe he's not, but you know who's definitely dead? Every single one of the raiders that Picard was trying so hard not to kill. He knocks out Devore (Tim Russ) with a punch, then drags him to sick bay, talks to him, and knocks him out again, because "You're Starfleet; you won't kill me" "It appears you're right". And then he just leaves him there to be consumed by the Baryon Sweep, along with everyone else who Picard deliberately kills (except the engineer guy, who Kelsey directly betrays). As presented in the episode, Picard feels no responsibility for any of those deaths, because (apart from perhaps Patricia Tallman's character) it wasn't him who killed them, it was the Baryon Sweep. Washing his hands of responsibility because of a technicality? That's not Picard.
And down on the planet, Orton and the Arkarians are all holding the rest of the main cast (except for Worf, who is off having family time with Alexander or something) hostage, and they can all just talk in a slightly lowered tone of voice, basically normal over-the-dinner-table conversation style of talking, and none of their captors say a damn thing. Meanwhile, where the hell are the other 9990 crew members? Are there terrorist cells in every other facility within Arkaria Base holding ALL of the ensigns and lieutenants hostage? The only way this might make sense is if, knowing they would be stopping at the Remmler Array, the Enterprise first stopped off at some other starbase, dropped off 9980 of the crew, and then the remaining 20 person skeleton crew piloted the ship to the Remmler, parked it, shut the ship down, and then went down to the planet. I can buy that Worf and 10 other people were just distracted the whole time, and none of them ever happened to check in on Beverly or look at a screen showing lifesigns on the parked ship. 11 people not noticing the action of the episode? Acceptable. 9991 people all wandering around on that planet and not one of them noticing the action of the episode? Suspension of disbelief absolutely destroyed. They really should have mentioned the starbase dropoff in the captain's log, just as they should have mentioned Hutchinson's death if that was the intent (maybe explain away his lack of plot shields by saying he has a pacemaker or something, which got shorted out by the shot).
So yeah, fun episode, but definitely now qualified to me as a "dumb action movie" on Star Trek, and not as a quality Star Trek episode. It would have been great to see this one rewritten by one of our absolutely top-notch writers who gets every detail absolutely right and thinks everything through to the Nth degree.
In the rewrite, you could actually make this Tuvok. Like, Picard gets him and he’s all “Lieutenant Tuvok, Starfleet Security. I’m trying to infiltrate a Trilithium smuggling ring for Starfleet Intelligence, and this op was supposed to be my credentials check.” And just have that both a) introduce the character to the audience, and b) lead in to any future Trilithium stories.
We've got the episode "Gambit" coming up in a little while, which is another one involving a gang of criminals who have no idea who Picard is, or at least not what he looks like. It makes me wonder if Section 31 removed his picture from his official Starfleet records profile, in order to keep people from seeking vengeance against Locutus, or something absurd like that.
I’m sure it has happened in other episodes but I just realized that JLP puts up a serious kill count in this episode. Like straight up murders a minimum of 4 people.
Brent Spiner is wonderful in this episode
Yes, this really shows a highly evolved version of Data which would have been fun to see more of in the future. As with his comedy experiments back in Outrageous Okona, or his efforts at romance in In Theory, his small talk program apparently got deactivated after one field test when it didn't immediately perform up to expectations. Data really doesn't seem to be big on refining and retesting his experiments in becoming more human.
Summary: On an evacuated USS Enterprise-D, Picard plays a deadly game of cat-and-mouse with terrorists who want to steal explosive toxic waste from the warp core as a lethal beam, meant to clean the ship from baryon-particles, sweeps the ship. (Quite nice. Tim Russ, Tuvok in the series Voyager plays a minor role)
Picard beat up human Tuvok. "Call me Hutch!!"
Thank you for the clarification between Die Hard and this episode. As someone who ruminated Voyager episodes, can you confirm whether Tim Russ's characters receive the Vulcan neck pinch more than give it?
I'd argue that none of them hate Hutchinson (except probably Worf), it's just that he's very full on. The crew are all used to conversation and debate but he just overwhelms them with minutia. With the exception of Riker most of the crew are actually kind of introverted. Troi, Crusher, Geordi, Worf and Picard all tend to be more introverted and as an introvert I gotta say that I would find Hutchinson pretty offensive. That's not to say I'd hate him. He's a nice guy and just trying to make his guests feel welcome and I'd recognise that. But i'd also avoid him like the plague.
I don't think Troi would be very good at her job if she were a full on Introvert; I think it's more that she comes across that way when she's either in professional Counselor Mode, or decompressing from that mode in her off hours; she acts like an introvert basically all the time, but inside, she really enjoys interacting with people instead of finding it draining to deal with large crowds, which is more or less the definition of introversion. Meanwhile, Geordi is a full-on extrovert, albeit more laid-back about it than Riker. I would say that Geordi would probably have been the most okay of all of them dealing with Hutchinson, and asked to get out of it more because he had other interests he wanted to pursue; Riker absolutely hates the need to talk to Hutchinson, because as a much higher ranking officer, Riker probably has to put up with stuffy Federation bureaucrats way more often than Geordi does, and is very burnt out on it. Crusher I got nothing on, she could be anywhere on this spectrum. So the only one I really agree with you about is Picard.
You talk about breaking the glass in 10 Forward, but it's probably transparent aluminum and not glass. :-)
It's gotta be way too tough to break with a chair, but if Picard turned that little laser cutter of his up to maximum and drilled a hole through the glass, the violent pressure equalization between all the air on the ship and the vacuum of space might have been powerful enough to break the window, although it has to be pretty damn tough given that it's literally at the front end of a ship which occasionally RAMS things. By the way, this brings up my other big nitpick with the episode - Beverly knocks out the entire reception room, and Data the super-fast android gets to a console with instructions to stop the incoming ship. Instead, Data apparently plays Tetris or something, because the entire climax in 10-forward happens, the ship arrives, Kelsey beams off, Picard calls to have the death-beam shut off, the death-beam gets shut off, probably by Data, and THEN Data contacts Picard, still having done nothing about Kelsey's ship.
I like your Soran theory. Installed into head-canon.
Every time somebody namechecks Soran (yes I looked up the spelling) from Generations, it makes me think of Soren the J'naii from "The Outcast". I wonder if there are a Sorin and a Soron somewhere in the Trekiverse who also sound exactly the same despite the spelling.
Something I want to point out is the little sub-plot about Picard's saddle. Why exactly is everyone so mystified that he keeps a real saddle on the ship? No, seriously, why?! These people apparently stuff their closets full of outfits to wear on the holodeck but keeping a saddle for that same reason is just baffling to them? Huh?
This is actually a HUGE pet peeve of mine in regards to Trek - why does everyone always dress up for the holodeck (or use what I like to call "Holodeck Toys")? Is it just because the show-runners think it's inherently funny to see people walking down futuristic corridors wearing silly outfits? It's not funny; it's annoying! Why in God's name aren't they just using holographic outifts? DS9, VOY, and ENT even establish that the holodeck can create holographic costumes for people to wear (DS9: "Our Man Bashir", VOY: "Human Error", and the dreadful final episode of ENT). Given all the ridiculous costumes these people must be keeping onboard, a saddle seems downright mundane.
I have to admit I laughed when it turned out he actually did have a saddle. After making what seemed to be a very fake excuse to duck out of the reception, "to go get my saddle".
I half suspect he just replicated it in his quarters just in case he bumped into anyone on his way out.
I'm sure those costumes are all replicated, but it does make you wonder when they find time to change. Speaking of which, why did Picard change clothes either before or after going back to the Enterprise? He didn't know he was going to have to pretend to be a barber later on; he's got 25 minutes to get on and off the ship before being trapped, so why does he spend several minutes changing? If he went up in a shuttle it would make sense, he'd put the shuttle on autopilot and change during the trip. But he was trying to beam off the ship, so presumably he beamed on; the best guess I have is that he changed in a turbolift, then stowed his uniform in a storage locker instead of carrying it back to HIS QUARTERS where he was going anyway, walked to his quarters in the nude, picked up his saddle, and then put on casual clothes. Seriously, Picard, I know costumes are fun, but just go horseback riding in your uniform. If you get horsecrap on it, you can just clean it the same way you cleaned up Sonia Gomez's hot chocolate in Q Who.
So, essentially Picard is the Hans Gruber
of Star Trek .
14:55 PLEASE DO YES CONSIDER THIS MY VOTE
Yes, I like to think it's Tuvok undercover -- it's not -- but it's nice to think.
Boring episode beyond theorizing over that
Small talk was mildly entertaining
Yippee ki yay, Lyta Alexander
The commander was very annoying. Does his getting killed count as a red shirt death? He was wearing Red.
Geordi lived as he was in yellow and everyone knows yellow is phaser resistant. Or maybe as Engineering he has radiation protection in his uniform or immune system?
Yes the Marquis exist Admiral Netcheiv order Commander Sisko to talk to the marquis and get them to cooperate. He complained at length to Major Kira in chains of command.
What was Tuvok doing after serving with Captain Sulu on the Excelsior and infiltration of the Marquis?
As much as people complain about this episode being "Die Hard", it's still a better action piece than Nemesis.
The title of the episode is a play on Enemy Mine but people make Die Hard comparisons? 😝
Yeah, I don't know why people call this Die Hard in space, it's obviously Home Alone in space!
On a serious note, it is an enjoyable episode though not particularly exceptional. Probably around average
I don't get the final shot of this episode at all. It seems like they were waiting for a punchline that never came. It's good fun overall, though, nice to see Picard bossing it on his own ship.
I liked Hutch! A sad loss for Starfleet...
That was the "wah-wah" ending, which I'm surprised Lore didn't mention, because this is awfully late in the show to be having one.
I still believe tuvok is a changeling ;)
Diehard? A christmas movie?
with what you say of maybe the TNG crew is anti social, that would explain alot when it comes to mr small talk, when it comes to crews on ships in real life you just learn to get along, focus in on your job and not generally go beyond your group, ala lower decks, the episode, not the rick and morty thing, like that stuff actually happens, which is why when ships dock and people get off, they get roudy and go nuts, which when you factor in they dont have real alchohol on the ship, mixed in with that, and their families are onboard
and then your stuck listening to some stupid Starfleet Quack holding a banquette when you finally might get some time to yourself and have a chance for it on a planet your docked at, and since your off duty and theirs a chance you might get ahold of some real boose too
is it any wonder why their like OH GOD PLEASE GET ME OUT OF HERE, I JUST WANT TO BE ALONE AND READ A DAMN BOOK!!!
plus alot of times, ex military wrote star trek, and sometimes some of that would bleed in from time to time, like the fight in 10 forward during Sarek is usually what happens when a sub comes to town in portsmouth lol
plus lets face if you were stuck with Westley crusher, any chance to cut loose and loose the boat anchor would priortity numerio uno lol like the most unrealistic part of star trek was the fact that anyone would put up with him for more than a week without retracting the plank like they did to worf in generations
and leaving him there with the simulation running for a month directly afterwards too lol
granted I think someone in the water recyling plant would be like why are we using so much waste water in hollodeck 3 long before they got to that part lol
also maybe him and mutt from Indiana jones should get a spin off smeg off to counter the smeg that is that annoying woman from that 5th indiana jones film, as their basically two of a kind,
Stop saying Tuvak, it makes be think of Tuvix.
TNG had a trope for well-meaning but annoying characters like Cmdr. "Hutch".
Dude, analogy (or not) to this episode aside - Diehard is not about a regular guy just keeping up! It's about a well seasoned NY cop improvising to throw wrenches in the gears of a well planned criminal operation to save his wife and others from being killed. With that said, no, this is episode is not in any way, Diehard.