One thing I really like about this episode is it breaks the trope of “good person will not use powers and compromise themselves”. That was so with Riker and that’s true with with a lot of fiction. Where a protagonist gains or is offered power that bears some sort of cost. Amanda can’t actually restrain herself. That’s not a bad thing due to her using them to help people. This means however she must join the Q, and she can not remain with humans.
I have a theory that this story was originally about Wesley in its early script stages which would retroactively have made it and, other Wesley episodes, much better. The idea that Wesley's dad, Jack, was a Q who left the continuum, eventually got married and had a kid, and then was killed or aloud to die by the continuum all seems like a much more interesting through line. As I have been rewatching this season I kept that theory in the back of my mind up to this episode and it has a looooot of retroactive continuity, kinda like Bashir on DS9. It would explain why Wesley was so smart early on, it would explain why Dr. Crusher is so broken up at the end of this episode. Hell, if you assume Jack was Q's friend, and thus he was looking at Wesley as a sorta nephew, it explains why he chose Riker, the guy Wesley looked up to, to become a Q and even the line ,"It's easier boy, listen to Riker!" ends up having multiple levels. They would have had to rewrite the episode a bit, I don't think Wesley had a crush on Riker for example, but it wouldn't have needed that much. And given the ending of this episode would have been that Wesley went off with a super-powered semi show regular to help develop his own burgeoning powers, and given how Wesley's story in the show ends anyway.........well spoilers. Anyway that is my theory what do you think? P.S. I want to be clear I am not knocking the actress here, I think she did a good job for what she had, I just think this would have been much more interesting.
"You know who you are when you are at your worst." I have been listening to your commentaries for a while, and gosh. Something about everything you have said in this video resonates with me. Take care of yourself.
Experiencing yourself at your worst can serve as a great motivating factor to strive to be better. I wasn't a great person in my teens and early 20s and had some traumatic experiences. Knowing how selfish and reckless I can be , sometimes I overcompensate by neglecting myself in favor of others which is also not good. My wife is very attuned to how I'm doing and serves as a reminder that people care about me and see the good in me. Luckily I'm married to someone who is very attuned to how I'm doing. Without her, I'm not sure if I would have changed. I can't imagine how difficult it is for those going through drug addicion, homelessness, or whatever terrible situation without having someone to pull them out of it.
I have an interesting take on the variations of Q. Q is so powerful that maybe a tenth of his attention is actually on what is going on in the episode. And what PART of his psyche is engaged with Picard explains why there are differences.
My take on Q's apparent inconsistency is that he's usually just barking at the end of his chain. Just like the real world, you get a more accurate picture judging someone by their actions rather than their words. It's easy to say pretty much anything and everything. It's much harder to pick out which things a person actually _means._ I figure that most of the time, Q is just blathering for a desired effect, rather than saying exactly what he means. His schtick does seem to revolve around helping humans progress in ways they maybe aren't pursuing otherwise.
I think it is because of the exceptional depth and care in these reviews that I would love to see you cover the outrageous "Garth Marenghi's Dark Place". Sort of light relief.
If I remember correctly, back when Next Gen originally came out, I immediately started writing sequels for it. I know I stopped for a year or three after being traumatized by Conspiracy, but at the absolute latest I came back in time to see this episode (I'm fairly certain I also saw Darmok which was a full year earlier, and it's likely I caught the Best of Both Worlds well before that, but without question I was back by season 6, as I have strong and distinctive memories of nearly all its episodes), and I remember being extremely touched by the concept. I'd been kind of a Wes Crusher fanboy back in season 1, being too young to consider him irritating, and so possibly the first fanfiction i started dreaming up in my head (which prooooobably never got written down, and if it did it was only as a brief outline) was about Wesley and Amanda Rogers at Starfleet Academy (I probably threw in Robin Lefler and maybe someone from The First Duty as well). My concept based on "the Neutral Zone" might have predated that, but that was my big melting pot that I threw all my ideas into, and the Wesley/Amanda academy story never really expanded at all.
A crucial detail that I noticed in this episode, which is fun to read into: Amanda uses her powers in the teaser, and doesn't make a Q-flash when she does so. Indeed, she doesn't start to produce the Q-flash until after she's interacted with Q. To lean on my personal theory of how Q omnipotence actually works, I think that all Q powers are effectively running on the same giant computer, and all the continuum's Q have learned to use the same "macro" to activate those powers, but the powers themselves can be activated without that particular display, by someone else who runs a different "macro".
Amanda is mentioned again (not by name) over in Deathwish in VOY, Janeway brings her up in the scenes surrounding the trial of Quinn (if i remember correctly)
I for one think the Riker-Amanda scene absolutely had to be there. She's a teenage girl, full of hormones, and she suddenly has the power to do anything; there's no way in heck that she isn't going to try out some childish pubescent fantasy. Riker should count himself lucky that she was mature enough to realize this wasn't right before actually doing anything biologically affecting to him. I'm not sure I could have handled that test as sensibly NOW, and at 14 I definitely wouldn't have.
It would be all to easy to rationalize using such power to affect people inappropriately during one's teenage years. (basically, "Riker _does_ find me attractive, I'll just affect him a little bit and really, he'll come around or be glad that I did. Besides, I'm not _hurting_ him.) As a guy, it would probably have been ten times harder lol.
If you could rationalize leaving out the scene, or coin-flip whether to include it, the Lorerunner would always come down on the side of 'omit'..that's just how he feels about this kind of thing. But I agree with you, it has to be in there. And Riker is the perfect choice, before ST TNG those afternoon romance movies were how Frankes earned his keep. Heck he married a soap star...a perfectly creepy scene, probably the most memorable one.
I was thinking about the character inconsistencies of Q, and I head cannoned that maybe he is just not held down by time. That the “Representative of the Continuum” was the “Younger Q” who had little contact or concern for anything other then the Continuum. (His talk of humanity is more like an observer in many of those episodes, then one that understood it) After spending time with humanity and others beings that he can easily push around, the power went to his head like many in his situation would and becomes he became the “Loki like Q”, and finally after his continuous dealing with Picard and after the Enterprise stood up for him after having his powers stripped in Deja Q, he becomes the “Agent of Humanity”. I prefer the idea that he was having cross time character development better then they’re just different Qs that look alike. :)
Sadly, the consistancy thing would have satisfied me, if (in Voyager) Q (John De Lancie) had merely MENTIONED Amanda. Simply referencing her in relation to the growing cultural changes in the Continuum, the scism, and eventual civil war. She didnt have to appear (though I might have been nice), but just bring her up for Pete's sake!
As always I think you did a great job with this. I always shied away from thinking too much about the Q episodes for the reason brought up in "Death Wish" - imagining being in this world, immortal, with infinite power ... isn't something that works in my head. Our Q's response is quite rational and understandable. So is Quinn's. So any attempt that I make to put me in the role of a Q just short circuits my brain!! I think Amanda made the correct choice in the end. The whole idea of just living your life hoping you'll never be in a situation where you're faced with a choice of deny your own compass or lose the absolute kind of bargain (never use your powers) is just not sustainable. My headcanon is that the Q weren't nearly so hard on rogue Q before Quinn, but he was (at least in their judgment) a threat like they'd never faced before.
Good analysis on what it means to be Q. He is here to save (as usual) but he can’t be (seen to be) nice about it. It was better than I remember. I would say that if there is “inconsistency” it is a symptom of Q and the Continuum having reached their maximum and not knowing what to do, and totally bored.
The point about the verdict retroactively not being finalized does make a lot of sense; if her birth was her parents' crime, then there needs to be a reason why she was allowed to grow up, rather than being killed with them. And we do know from both Tapestry and All Good Things that Q has an extra-temporal view of the board. So it is entirely plausible that letting her live as a baby was for the sake of using her as part of the ongoing trial, at this point in time. And in that interpretation, Q's malevolence in this episode is easily explained as him playing a role to give Picard a hint what behavior on his part would best impress the court. Give a man a villain to rally against, and it's an easy song and dance to make him act like a hero.
Your thoughts are pretty spot on. I have seen this episode recentley the "infinite toolbox" is a great analogy. Just fully watching tgn also. Man we have come a long time from 11 o clock re runs.
Just rewatched Enterprise. Hoping you do that series next. Incredibly underrated after it got its footing. Seasons 3 and 4 are among the highest rated string of episodes in all of Star Trek according to IMDB. Also it’s the last of real Star Trek.
@@maisiesummers42 Of course, that would mean they stripped them _after_ the fact, rather than ahead of time. (which would have prevented the whole problem)
This episode pretty much proves that Q are energy beings with powers, as opposed to people with really advanced tech like Trelane. Amanda wouldn't have the tech.
Trelane is not only a Q, he's Q's illegitimate son. He had an affair with his mother. And somehow two omnipotent beings kept that knowledge from a third. Now by Q and the Grey Lady Q reveals that the Q are not truly omnipotent. Or not omniscient. When you can experience every universe in the multiverse non-linearally then you see the tapestry the curries and edy of energy we thing of as time. You know from observation where the ripples of change will go depending on what action someone takes. The Borg managed to capture a Q. Now that would likely only last a moment except the Q aren't creative.
You picked up on the idea that the core breach was Q doing that; the dropped canister is almost certainly him too, although I for one think it could have also been Amanda herself doing it subconsciously.
I think that "Q Makes 2" sounds like a great story idea. Yes, we have "Deadlock" in Voyager and "Enemy Within" in TOS, but this would be kind of a mashup of the two stories. I definitely don't think that it would be redundant with "Enemy"; first off it's completely different characters on a different show, but even aside from that, "all the crew versus their evil duplicates" is a very different situation than "all the crew plus their good captain versus their evil captain".
How does that work with captain insaneway. Damn the consequences we staying in the Delta quadrant and taking the long way home. Then making faustian bargains with the Borg. Then saying my moral code won't allow me to use stolen knowledge to get us home, so instead we will interfere in dozens of more cultures, get crew men killed. Get involved in wars Did I mention treason making treaties with the Borg?
This episode feels like a bit of a rehash of Hide & Q, in which Riker basically is given the Amanda Rogers role. You'd think the writers could have at least have Riker mention that, even in passing? From that show, we already knew it's next to impossible to resist using your godlike powers.
I always headcanon’d that Amanda and Q2 (Q’s son) ended up going out and getting together, and accidentally sparking the Earth-Romulan War/Smashing the Voth off Earth.
*“Would've been interesting if they brought her up during Death Wish."* I always thought so too. It could have been great to have seen her called to testify. Also, she should have been referenced in *“The Q and the Grey."*
The story of Amanda's parents is much the same as the story of Kevin Uxbridge from "The Survivors", and the story of Flint over in TOS's "Requiem for Methuselah" (actually that's probably a bad example but I can't think of which TOS episode is a better fit for this template, I'm pretty sure there is one). It's the story of how some people living among us have miraculous powers, but they choose to live an ordinary life because we deserve to live normally, without supergods wishing our problems away. In other words, its' a defense of human suffering as being necessary to build character. While I don't hate that message as much as you did back in the "Hide and Q" rumination, I do think of it as a Roddenberryian outlook that is highly questionable. If Amanda could Q-snap away all of the hunger and disease and other such miseries in the galaxy, I don't think that in and of itself would entirely ruin the meaning of life for everyone. There are problems with such an approach, but I think they're interesting problems and I'd like to see them explored.
I would have thought that the writers would have had her(Amanda Rogers)in other episodes, maybe in Star Trek Voyager, or Deep Space Nine, but since they didn't, maybe the writers could add her into Star Trek Discovery or Star Trek Picard.
To be honest, the lighter Q episodes make it harder for me to view him as a threat. Intellectually, I know he was responsible for 18 deaths back in Q Who, but I can't really associate the more recent Q who created a Robin Hood fantasy with a potential killer. I don't hate the episode, but it's a fairly basic treatment of the theme. I actually prefer Hide and Q, where Riker has a similar dilemma.
I suppose you could argue that Q *could have* easily redone the ruined mitosis experiment in a couple seconds, but he didn't because it wasn't important to him. I know he was trying to convince Amanda that using her powers was a good thing, but I don't think he'd overly concern himself with quickly fixing a human experiment that means nothing to him. Instead, he moves onto the next way to convince Amanda. In reality, it's just that the plot demanded he don't fix it, but I think you could argue it just wasn't important enough. As for why Amanda didn't fix it, she wasn't used to her powers yet and didn't necessarily truly know the limits, and she was being coached by Q, who didn't say to fix it.
It was definitely in service of the "good parenting/bad parenting" struggle between Beverly and Q. I suppose it's difficult to avoid being blatant when you have to get everything in over the span of a single episode.
Isn't there a Starfleet Academy novel series where Wesley meets Amanda Rogers? I thought she was pretty famous, and if you'd mentioned her in the 15+ years when I wasn't actively following Star Trek anymore, I'd probably have recognized the name immediately, even if I only remembered "the cadet who's Q" out of the entire episode.
Almost immediately I recalled the "Q is forced to become a human" episode, and it really just deflates the whole execution angle of this particular story. Obviously, the continuum can revoke and restore powers with ease, so why didn't they just do that in the first place? Q could have offered that in place of the execution option if Amanda really wanted to stay as a human. It makes me think that her parents may have only been "killed" in their human forms, and prohibited from returning to that form again. Perhaps the extreme choices Q offers here are actually theatrics designed to herd Amanda toward joining the continuum, rather than an actual threat. It would fit with the controlling nature of Q, but also his certain level of compassion. It seems all too convenient that the power plant is suddenly about to explode at the precise moment Amanda tells Q her choice. Even though he denies involvement, I strongly suspect it was either him, or the continuum presenting her with a test they knew she would jump at. It makes sense given her nature and the big focus on Crusher as a parental figure this episode. The one thing Crusher does seem to be willing to answer is that she would help people if she had the power. I think part of the reason she refrains from answering the "revive Jack" question is that she is trying to counter-balance the influence of Q. She knows quite well that Q is pushing the "easily solve it with Q powers" route, and opts to approach the issue more delicately. (no doubt she realizes the corrupting influence of such easy powers) Not surprisingly, Amanda opts to use her powers the way Crusher surmises she herself would probably use them. But yeah, it's somehow a very average, bland, forgettable episode. I always remember the general plot, but nothing stands out. (aside from Riker actually managing to refrain from boinking Amanda)
So, I actually really like this episode. While not a VHS collection one, as a kid I absolutely adored it because the thought that one day I could wake up and be a Q was amazing (spoiler: I never did.) It has been mentioned that humanity will eventually grow to rival the Q Continuum in a few million years. I believe that Amanda awakening to her powers scared the ever loving crap out of the continuum due to the possibility of introducing Q DNA into the human gene pool, effectively causing them to leap ahead towards that end far sooner than anticipated. Thus they gave Q the job to either bring her back with him, or execute her. I don't honestly believe that letting her or her parents live without using their powers was ever an option, and i personally don't think that her parents DID ever use their powers, which is why it was never mentioned. It was an excuse for the humans. I do enjoy a lot of the "what would you do if you had Q powers" angle, especially for a young teen. Get love, affection, have flawless skin, save a world, and kiss all the boys.
I believe captain Picard himself summed up the meaning of this episode saying: "She is no different from you except in one way, the fact she has a thread of decency" I believe Q did not give Amanda a choice... her 'Self', her soul, had to be destroyed, she could either become evil (by letting others die, or by accepting the continuum) or die... Q was there to watch. therefore: firstly: needless to say, I believe Q, as portrayed here, is evil (not necessarily malevolent, no, but closer, a weight on the scales that bring the measure of evil) secondarily: I do not believe that Humans here are at a low and Q are at a high. no, I believe StarTrek has shown us, and stated many times we are dealing with "Evolved Humans", the best of there species in history, at the top of there game, the peak performance super-tuned man... in there own image at least. we are dealing, thus, with a period of the most self-righteous mankind the Q on the other hand is almost a teenager as a being, a species who hides there uncomfortableness with (recently attained(?)) omnipotence in the flagrant use of their powers, in aggression... we are given clues to that there were goodness knows what terrible civil wars, breaking the Q into so many 'rouge factions'.. likely the fall left scars which have not even begun to heal... no, I feel these are an omnipotent hungry-Cardassia of the ethereal universe.
Summary: Q once again graces the Enterprise with a visit, claiming that a young intern aboard is really a Q. (It's not great, but it's with Olivia d`Abo, so an objective opinion is difficult...)
Q said to Picard, if you say so. I wasn't there. In regards to the tornado. There you go again. Blaming me for everything. I'm not the one who destroys humanly. You are. You did it before, you're doing it now and you'll do again. Picard still didn't quite grasp what Q was saying. Picard is good at three dimensional tactical thinking. Fourth dimensional thinking is not something we interact with normally. LR is blaming Q.
Still don't get why kill her, or her parents when we already know they can take away powers and make them mortal. Erase their memories after too for good affect. Yes, maybe creating Amanda was the power that brought the hammer down, which makes Q and the Grey very ironic and maybe bittersweet.
Regarding the Riker-Rodgers romance-of-the-week: I found it creepy as hell, mostly because it's an 18-year-old and a guy approaching 40. At least, for once, Riker was trying to say no to it.
Not surprised Olivia was 21\22, in this episode. Dressing her in pink, very similar to Disaster, Picard first officer a few years earlier? Not the same character but probably using her as a template. Make her look younger, then for some reason while she is sitting talking to Crusher, shoot her from below across her bust and head. The romance, that bodice ick! Then on the bridge at the end dressed in Green I would put her age around 22. Eject that nasty bit and still.
I think Q is there to bring her to the continuem. I dont think her parents broke the agreement but I think having Amanda a Q controlled by other Q independent of the continuem is to dangerous for the Q continuem. The parents died as they were an independent Q breeding ground. Amanda had to join the continuem or die regardless of what she did outside of the Q. The real question is did the continuem eventually do away with her for not being Q enough for them? Edit: I wrote this comment whilst watching the video before you said that Amanda was the reason the parents were killed. I think it can be the only reason as I suspect that Q powers can not remain stripped without another Q constantly applying the seperating of power from the other Q. That is why Q gets his powers back in the end.
I now desperately want the story of Zero, the greater evil that rises to prominence because the Q were somehow gotten rid of. For a perfect story template, see the Metroid games - you kill off all the Metroids, and it turns out that they were the only thing keeping the X Parasite in check.
Never cared for Q, but I suppose the crew of Enterprise - D had to have some sort of recurring powerful adversary. Also, this guy is really obsessed with Q.
I loved her in Conan, I'm sure we all did :) I wonder how Gates felt about the dog scene. Making Riker fall for her was interesting, lots of metaphysical and existential questions there about free will and the source of emotion. This is one of the worst q episodes - not the character, the species - a lot of canon before and after was and will be ignored here. Why did they even bother?
This is one of only two ! episodes I despise. But unlike Qpid, I don't hate it on it's own merits. On its own its a somewhat enjoyable 40ish minutes of television co-starring characters I love and actors I respect. Why it is an episode I get irrationally angry at when I think about is because of what you're talking about at around the 9:45 mark. It has ZERO consequences moving forward. Zero callbacks. Zero relevance in places where it should be the single most important event in the culture(?) of the Q. Edit: I know the exact kind of person I am at my core, and it disgusts me.
I know the exact kind of person I am at my core. And I am disgusted that the entire universe has more influence on my outcomes than that inner self does.
@Lorerunner - Smart guys like you and me (and smart girls, though I don't personally know any) are annoyed with the sloppy writing in television shows, but if you're a television producer, your job isn't to satisfy a relative handful of smart viewers, it's to capture the eyeballs of a couple million people, and most of them are going to be idiots. Not only will they not care about you getting everything right, but they'll probably actively tune out if you try to make the show smarter. Which means the studio is out a few million dollars, doesn't get the ratings they want, and aren't going to fund your show any longer.
I believe that this episode is referenced in Voyager's *“Death Wish"* when Tuvok points out that the Continuum has carried out assassinations.
There was a Red Dwarf episode with three ships! The 'normal' crew the evil crew and the good one.
I feel like this episode is a bit opposite of the early one where he gives Riker the Q powers, but that IMO was a much more ham-fisted episode
One thing I really like about this episode is it breaks the trope of “good person will not use powers and compromise themselves”. That was so with Riker and that’s true with with a lot of fiction. Where a protagonist gains or is offered power that bears some sort of cost.
Amanda can’t actually restrain herself. That’s not a bad thing due to her using them to help people. This means however she must join the Q, and she can not remain with humans.
I have a theory that this story was originally about Wesley in its early script stages which would retroactively have made it and, other Wesley episodes, much better. The idea that Wesley's dad, Jack, was a Q who left the continuum, eventually got married and had a kid, and then was killed or aloud to die by the continuum all seems like a much more interesting through line.
As I have been rewatching this season I kept that theory in the back of my mind up to this episode and it has a looooot of retroactive continuity, kinda like Bashir on DS9.
It would explain why Wesley was so smart early on, it would explain why Dr. Crusher is so broken up at the end of this episode. Hell, if you assume Jack was Q's friend, and thus he was looking at Wesley as a sorta nephew, it explains why he chose Riker, the guy Wesley looked up to, to become a Q and even the line ,"It's easier boy, listen to Riker!" ends up having multiple levels.
They would have had to rewrite the episode a bit, I don't think Wesley had a crush on Riker for example, but it wouldn't have needed that much. And given the ending of this episode would have been that Wesley went off with a super-powered semi show regular to help develop his own burgeoning powers, and given how Wesley's story in the show ends anyway.........well spoilers.
Anyway that is my theory what do you think?
P.S. I want to be clear I am not knocking the actress here, I think she did a good job for what she had, I just think this would have been much more interesting.
The main mistake with Wesley after adding him in the first place was not killing him off quickly thereafter.
"You know who you are when you are at your worst."
I have been listening to your commentaries for a while, and gosh. Something about everything you have said in this video resonates with me. Take care of yourself.
Experiencing yourself at your worst can serve as a great motivating factor to strive to be better.
I wasn't a great person in my teens and early 20s and had some traumatic experiences. Knowing how selfish and reckless I can be , sometimes I overcompensate by neglecting myself in favor of others which is also not good.
My wife is very attuned to how I'm doing and serves as a reminder that people care about me and see the good in me.
Luckily I'm married to someone who is very attuned to how I'm doing. Without her, I'm not sure if I would have changed. I can't imagine how difficult it is for those going through drug addicion, homelessness, or whatever terrible situation without having someone to pull them out of it.
I have an interesting take on the variations of Q. Q is so powerful that maybe a tenth of his attention is actually on what is going on in the episode. And what PART of his psyche is engaged with Picard explains why there are differences.
I wish I could see who likes my musings on Lore's musings...
My take on Q's apparent inconsistency is that he's usually just barking at the end of his chain. Just like the real world, you get a more accurate picture judging someone by their actions rather than their words. It's easy to say pretty much anything and everything. It's much harder to pick out which things a person actually _means._ I figure that most of the time, Q is just blathering for a desired effect, rather than saying exactly what he means. His schtick does seem to revolve around helping humans progress in ways they maybe aren't pursuing otherwise.
@@videogenics86 I do, at least in this case. I'll try and look for your comments elsewhere.
I think it is because of the exceptional depth and care in these reviews that I would love to see you cover the outrageous "Garth Marenghi's Dark Place". Sort of light relief.
If I remember correctly, back when Next Gen originally came out, I immediately started writing sequels for it. I know I stopped for a year or three after being traumatized by Conspiracy, but at the absolute latest I came back in time to see this episode (I'm fairly certain I also saw Darmok which was a full year earlier, and it's likely I caught the Best of Both Worlds well before that, but without question I was back by season 6, as I have strong and distinctive memories of nearly all its episodes), and I remember being extremely touched by the concept. I'd been kind of a Wes Crusher fanboy back in season 1, being too young to consider him irritating, and so possibly the first fanfiction i started dreaming up in my head (which prooooobably never got written down, and if it did it was only as a brief outline) was about Wesley and Amanda Rogers at Starfleet Academy (I probably threw in Robin Lefler and maybe someone from The First Duty as well). My concept based on "the Neutral Zone" might have predated that, but that was my big melting pot that I threw all my ideas into, and the Wesley/Amanda academy story never really expanded at all.
A crucial detail that I noticed in this episode, which is fun to read into: Amanda uses her powers in the teaser, and doesn't make a Q-flash when she does so. Indeed, she doesn't start to produce the Q-flash until after she's interacted with Q. To lean on my personal theory of how Q omnipotence actually works, I think that all Q powers are effectively running on the same giant computer, and all the continuum's Q have learned to use the same "macro" to activate those powers, but the powers themselves can be activated without that particular display, by someone else who runs a different "macro".
This is my favorite Q episode.
16:45. Q is not a villain, or malevolent being. He is an advisory, sure, but more of a mentor/guiding hand that pushes (sometimes hard).
Amanda is mentioned again (not by name) over in Deathwish in VOY, Janeway brings her up in the scenes surrounding the trial of Quinn (if i remember correctly)
I loved the reference to the "Q Continuum" book series.
I for one think the Riker-Amanda scene absolutely had to be there. She's a teenage girl, full of hormones, and she suddenly has the power to do anything; there's no way in heck that she isn't going to try out some childish pubescent fantasy. Riker should count himself lucky that she was mature enough to realize this wasn't right before actually doing anything biologically affecting to him. I'm not sure I could have handled that test as sensibly NOW, and at 14 I definitely wouldn't have.
It would be all to easy to rationalize using such power to affect people inappropriately during one's teenage years. (basically, "Riker _does_ find me attractive, I'll just affect him a little bit and really, he'll come around or be glad that I did. Besides, I'm not _hurting_ him.) As a guy, it would probably have been ten times harder lol.
If you could rationalize leaving out the scene, or coin-flip whether to include it, the Lorerunner would always come down on the side of 'omit'..that's just how he feels about this kind of thing. But I agree with you, it has to be in there. And Riker is the perfect choice, before ST TNG those afternoon romance movies were how Frankes earned his keep. Heck he married a soap star...a perfectly creepy scene, probably the most memorable one.
I was thinking about the character inconsistencies of Q, and I head cannoned that maybe he is just not held down by time. That the “Representative of the Continuum” was the “Younger Q” who had little contact or concern for anything other then the Continuum. (His talk of humanity is more like an observer in many of those episodes, then one that understood it) After spending time with humanity and others beings that he can easily push around, the power went to his head like many in his situation would and becomes he became the “Loki like Q”, and finally after his continuous dealing with Picard and after the Enterprise stood up for him after having his powers stripped in Deja Q, he becomes the “Agent of Humanity”. I prefer the idea that he was having cross time character development better then they’re just different Qs that look alike. :)
Sadly, the consistancy thing would have satisfied me, if (in Voyager) Q (John De Lancie) had merely MENTIONED Amanda.
Simply referencing her in relation to the growing cultural changes in the Continuum, the scism, and eventual civil war.
She didnt have to appear (though I might have been nice), but just bring her up for Pete's sake!
Her parents were referenced-Q acknowledges the continuum has used execution in rare cases.
Hey Arch, can you please do the original series next? I am really interested in hearing your thoughts on it!
As always I think you did a great job with this. I always shied away from thinking too much about the Q episodes for the reason brought up in "Death Wish" - imagining being in this world, immortal, with infinite power ... isn't something that works in my head. Our Q's response is quite rational and understandable. So is Quinn's. So any attempt that I make to put me in the role of a Q just short circuits my brain!! I think Amanda made the correct choice in the end. The whole idea of just living your life hoping you'll never be in a situation where you're faced with a choice of deny your own compass or lose the absolute kind of bargain (never use your powers) is just not sustainable. My headcanon is that the Q weren't nearly so hard on rogue Q before Quinn, but he was (at least in their judgment) a threat like they'd never faced before.
Good analysis on what it means to be Q. He is here to save (as usual) but he can’t be (seen to be) nice about it.
It was better than I remember. I would say that if there is “inconsistency” it is a symptom of Q and the Continuum having reached their maximum and not knowing what to do, and totally bored.
The point about the verdict retroactively not being finalized does make a lot of sense; if her birth was her parents' crime, then there needs to be a reason why she was allowed to grow up, rather than being killed with them. And we do know from both Tapestry and All Good Things that Q has an extra-temporal view of the board. So it is entirely plausible that letting her live as a baby was for the sake of using her as part of the ongoing trial, at this point in time.
And in that interpretation, Q's malevolence in this episode is easily explained as him playing a role to give Picard a hint what behavior on his part would best impress the court. Give a man a villain to rally against, and it's an easy song and dance to make him act like a hero.
Your thoughts are pretty spot on. I have seen this episode recentley the "infinite toolbox" is a great analogy. Just fully watching tgn also. Man we have come a long time from 11 o clock re runs.
Somebody clip out Lore saying 10:07 "I hate that!", with his wonderfully vicious teeth-baring expression. I need that meme for...purposes. :)
Just rewatched Enterprise. Hoping you do that series next. Incredibly underrated after it got its footing. Seasons 3 and 4 are among the highest rated string of episodes in all of Star Trek according to IMDB. Also it’s the last of real Star Trek.
My question is if they can strip Q and later his son their powers why couldn't do that with her parents or Amanda.
I think they did that with the parents, which is why they died in that Q-generated tornado. But they decided to let Amanda grow to see what happened.
@@maisiesummers42 For some reason I thought they were using their powers to help people but after listening to the video I'm not sure.
@@maisiesummers42 Of course, that would mean they stripped them _after_ the fact, rather than ahead of time. (which would have prevented the whole problem)
As for making Q a human-it’s not something they wish to do. It’s something that if you wish it-your mad(Quinn), or its punishment(Deja Q).
This episode pretty much proves that Q are energy beings with powers, as opposed to people with really advanced tech like Trelane. Amanda wouldn't have the tech.
Trelane is not only a Q, he's Q's illegitimate son. He had an affair with his mother.
And somehow two omnipotent beings kept that knowledge from a third.
Now by Q and the Grey Lady Q reveals that the Q are not truly omnipotent. Or not omniscient.
When you can experience every universe in the multiverse non-linearally then you see the tapestry the curries and edy of energy we thing of as time.
You know from observation where the ripples of change will go depending on what action someone takes.
The Borg managed to capture a Q. Now that would likely only last a moment except the Q aren't creative.
You picked up on the idea that the core breach was Q doing that; the dropped canister is almost certainly him too, although I for one think it could have also been Amanda herself doing it subconsciously.
I think Q admits to doing both during the episode.
I think that "Q Makes 2" sounds like a great story idea. Yes, we have "Deadlock" in Voyager and "Enemy Within" in TOS, but this would be kind of a mashup of the two stories. I definitely don't think that it would be redundant with "Enemy"; first off it's completely different characters on a different show, but even aside from that, "all the crew versus their evil duplicates" is a very different situation than "all the crew plus their good captain versus their evil captain".
How does that work with captain insaneway. Damn the consequences we staying in the Delta quadrant and taking the long way home.
Then making faustian bargains with the Borg.
Then saying my moral code won't allow me to use stolen knowledge to get us home, so instead we will interfere in dozens of more cultures, get crew men killed. Get involved in wars
Did I mention treason making treaties with the Borg?
This episode feels like a bit of a rehash of Hide & Q, in which Riker basically is given the Amanda Rogers role. You'd think the writers could have at least have Riker mention that, even in passing? From that show, we already knew it's next to impossible to resist using your godlike powers.
This is the first Q episode I saw
I always headcanon’d that Amanda and Q2 (Q’s son) ended up going out and getting together, and accidentally sparking the Earth-Romulan War/Smashing the Voth off Earth.
I just looked up the q now im here entertain me!
*“Would've been interesting if they brought her up during Death Wish."*
I always thought so too. It could have been great to have seen her called to testify.
Also, she should have been referenced in *“The Q and the Grey."*
Q and the Grey shouldn't exist. And Amanda is just one reason why.
@@KnightRaymund
To say nothing of Q Jr.
The execution of her parents is referenced indirectly.
The story of Amanda's parents is much the same as the story of Kevin Uxbridge from "The Survivors", and the story of Flint over in TOS's "Requiem for Methuselah" (actually that's probably a bad example but I can't think of which TOS episode is a better fit for this template, I'm pretty sure there is one). It's the story of how some people living among us have miraculous powers, but they choose to live an ordinary life because we deserve to live normally, without supergods wishing our problems away. In other words, its' a defense of human suffering as being necessary to build character. While I don't hate that message as much as you did back in the "Hide and Q" rumination, I do think of it as a Roddenberryian outlook that is highly questionable. If Amanda could Q-snap away all of the hunger and disease and other such miseries in the galaxy, I don't think that in and of itself would entirely ruin the meaning of life for everyone. There are problems with such an approach, but I think they're interesting problems and I'd like to see them explored.
I would have thought that the writers would have had her(Amanda Rogers)in other episodes, maybe in Star Trek Voyager, or Deep Space Nine, but since they didn't, maybe the writers could add her into Star Trek Discovery or Star Trek Picard.
To be honest, the lighter Q episodes make it harder for me to view him as a threat. Intellectually, I know he was responsible for 18 deaths back in Q Who, but I can't really associate the more recent Q who created a Robin Hood fantasy with a potential killer. I don't hate the episode, but it's a fairly basic treatment of the theme. I actually prefer Hide and Q, where Riker has a similar dilemma.
I suppose you could argue that Q *could have* easily redone the ruined mitosis experiment in a couple seconds, but he didn't because it wasn't important to him. I know he was trying to convince Amanda that using her powers was a good thing, but I don't think he'd overly concern himself with quickly fixing a human experiment that means nothing to him. Instead, he moves onto the next way to convince Amanda. In reality, it's just that the plot demanded he don't fix it, but I think you could argue it just wasn't important enough. As for why Amanda didn't fix it, she wasn't used to her powers yet and didn't necessarily truly know the limits, and she was being coached by Q, who didn't say to fix it.
It was definitely in service of the "good parenting/bad parenting" struggle between Beverly and Q. I suppose it's difficult to avoid being blatant when you have to get everything in over the span of a single episode.
Isn't there a Starfleet Academy novel series where Wesley meets Amanda Rogers? I thought she was pretty famous, and if you'd mentioned her in the 15+ years when I wasn't actively following Star Trek anymore, I'd probably have recognized the name immediately, even if I only remembered "the cadet who's Q" out of the entire episode.
Almost immediately I recalled the "Q is forced to become a human" episode, and it really just deflates the whole execution angle of this particular story. Obviously, the continuum can revoke and restore powers with ease, so why didn't they just do that in the first place? Q could have offered that in place of the execution option if Amanda really wanted to stay as a human. It makes me think that her parents may have only been "killed" in their human forms, and prohibited from returning to that form again. Perhaps the extreme choices Q offers here are actually theatrics designed to herd Amanda toward joining the continuum, rather than an actual threat. It would fit with the controlling nature of Q, but also his certain level of compassion.
It seems all too convenient that the power plant is suddenly about to explode at the precise moment Amanda tells Q her choice. Even though he denies involvement, I strongly suspect it was either him, or the continuum presenting her with a test they knew she would jump at. It makes sense given her nature and the big focus on Crusher as a parental figure this episode. The one thing Crusher does seem to be willing to answer is that she would help people if she had the power. I think part of the reason she refrains from answering the "revive Jack" question is that she is trying to counter-balance the influence of Q. She knows quite well that Q is pushing the "easily solve it with Q powers" route, and opts to approach the issue more delicately. (no doubt she realizes the corrupting influence of such easy powers) Not surprisingly, Amanda opts to use her powers the way Crusher surmises she herself would probably use them.
But yeah, it's somehow a very average, bland, forgettable episode. I always remember the general plot, but nothing stands out. (aside from Riker actually managing to refrain from boinking Amanda)
Q did admit it was him that caused the warp core to explode.
So, I actually really like this episode. While not a VHS collection one, as a kid I absolutely adored it because the thought that one day I could wake up and be a Q was amazing (spoiler: I never did.)
It has been mentioned that humanity will eventually grow to rival the Q Continuum in a few million years. I believe that Amanda awakening to her powers scared the ever loving crap out of the continuum due to the possibility of introducing Q DNA into the human gene pool, effectively causing them to leap ahead towards that end far sooner than anticipated. Thus they gave Q the job to either bring her back with him, or execute her. I don't honestly believe that letting her or her parents live without using their powers was ever an option, and i personally don't think that her parents DID ever use their powers, which is why it was never mentioned. It was an excuse for the humans.
I do enjoy a lot of the "what would you do if you had Q powers" angle, especially for a young teen. Get love, affection, have flawless skin, save a world, and kiss all the boys.
I believe captain Picard himself summed up the meaning of this episode saying: "She is no different from you except in one way, the fact she has a thread of decency" I believe Q did not give Amanda a choice... her 'Self', her soul, had to be destroyed, she could either become evil (by letting others die, or by accepting the continuum) or die... Q was there to watch. therefore:
firstly: needless to say, I believe Q, as portrayed here, is evil (not necessarily malevolent, no, but closer, a weight on the scales that bring the measure of evil)
secondarily: I do not believe that Humans here are at a low and Q are at a high. no, I believe StarTrek has shown us, and stated many times we are dealing with "Evolved Humans", the best of there species in history, at the top of there game, the peak performance super-tuned man... in there own image at least. we are dealing, thus, with a period of the most self-righteous mankind
the Q on the other hand is almost a teenager as a being, a species who hides there uncomfortableness with (recently attained(?)) omnipotence in the flagrant use of their powers, in aggression... we are given clues to that there were goodness knows what terrible civil wars, breaking the Q into so many 'rouge factions'.. likely the fall left scars which have not even begun to heal... no, I feel these are an omnipotent hungry-Cardassia of the ethereal universe.
28:25 I legit thought you said "Q-manity"
Summary: Q once again graces the Enterprise with a visit, claiming that a young intern aboard is really a Q. (It's not great, but it's with Olivia d`Abo, so an objective opinion is difficult...)
I recognized her when she appeared as Nicole Wallace on Law & Order Criminal Intent.
Conan The Destroyer
I do wonder what Amanda got up to in the continuum. Given it was basically a wasteland in which everything had happened.
Q said to Picard, if you say so. I wasn't there. In regards to the tornado.
There you go again. Blaming me for everything.
I'm not the one who destroys humanly.
You are.
You did it before, you're doing it now and you'll do again. Picard still didn't quite grasp what Q was saying.
Picard is good at three dimensional tactical thinking.
Fourth dimensional thinking is not something we interact with normally.
LR is blaming Q.
Still don't get why kill her, or her parents when we already know they can take away powers and make them mortal. Erase their memories after too for good affect.
Yes, maybe creating Amanda was the power that brought the hammer down, which makes Q and the Grey very ironic and maybe bittersweet.
Regarding the Riker-Rodgers romance-of-the-week: I found it creepy as hell, mostly because it's an 18-year-old and a guy approaching 40. At least, for once, Riker was trying to say no to it.
Not surprised Olivia was 21\22, in this episode.
Dressing her in pink, very similar to Disaster, Picard first officer a few years earlier? Not the same character but probably using her as a template. Make her look younger, then for some reason while she is sitting talking to Crusher, shoot her from below across her bust and head.
The romance, that bodice ick!
Then on the bridge at the end dressed in Green I would put her age around 22. Eject that nasty bit and still.
I think Q is there to bring her to the continuem. I dont think her parents broke the agreement but I think having Amanda a Q controlled by other Q independent of the continuem is to dangerous for the Q continuem. The parents died as they were an independent Q breeding ground. Amanda had to join the continuem or die regardless of what she did outside of the Q. The real question is did the continuem eventually do away with her for not being Q enough for them?
Edit: I wrote this comment whilst watching the video before you said that Amanda was the reason the parents were killed. I think it can be the only reason as I suspect that Q powers can not remain stripped without another Q constantly applying the seperating of power from the other Q. That is why Q gets his powers back in the end.
I now desperately want the story of Zero, the greater evil that rises to prominence because the Q were somehow gotten rid of. For a perfect story template, see the Metroid games - you kill off all the Metroids, and it turns out that they were the only thing keeping the X Parasite in check.
The one where Q becomes human is Deja Q
Thus if Amanda is Q-she should join her peers. Not be punished.
Why didn't the Q Continuum just neutralize her powers like they did to Delancie's Q.
10:00 Didn't you do that with the last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker
It's a wonder they never made a tng movie with Q, another ace up their sleeve this side of the Borg
My problem with that is that All Good Things was so good that it practically _was_ a Q movie. It's hard to think how else you'd use him.
To me this show was about the under use of a guest star with Olivia D'Abo. She should've been the Q that showed up in Voyager instead of DeLancie.
She's Portia del Rossi? Wow.
Never cared for Q, but I suppose the crew of Enterprise - D had to have some sort of recurring powerful adversary. Also, this guy is really obsessed with Q.
DeLancie is just so fun to watch, especially when he's bantering with the crew.
Please tell me that Rascals will be a lamentation!
I loved her in Conan, I'm sure we all did :)
I wonder how Gates felt about the dog scene.
Making Riker fall for her was interesting, lots of metaphysical and existential questions there about free will and the source of emotion.
This is one of the worst q episodes - not the character, the species - a lot of canon before and after was and will be ignored here. Why did they even bother?
10/10
I have had Christians tell me to just have faith like faith means shutting your brain off so I know where you are coming from.
This is one of only two ! episodes I despise. But unlike Qpid, I don't hate it on it's own merits. On its own its a somewhat enjoyable 40ish minutes of television co-starring characters I love and actors I respect. Why it is an episode I get irrationally angry at when I think about is because of what you're talking about at around the 9:45 mark. It has ZERO consequences moving forward. Zero callbacks. Zero relevance in places where it should be the single most important event in the culture(?) of the Q.
Edit: I know the exact kind of person I am at my core, and it disgusts me.
I know the exact kind of person I am at my core. And I am disgusted that the entire universe has more influence on my outcomes than that inner self does.
@Lorerunner - Smart guys like you and me (and smart girls, though I don't personally know any) are annoyed with the sloppy writing in television shows, but if you're a television producer, your job isn't to satisfy a relative handful of smart viewers, it's to capture the eyeballs of a couple million people, and most of them are going to be idiots. Not only will they not care about you getting everything right, but they'll probably actively tune out if you try to make the show smarter. Which means the studio is out a few million dollars, doesn't get the ratings they want, and aren't going to fund your show any longer.
Indeed, great premise, mediocre execution
The Q must have a core sense of ethics and morality, or else the multiverse would be a far less enjoyable place to live in.
They do restore Q's powers after he displays a "tiny bit selfless" act.
Is Thanos a Q with that snap