Etching Copper Badges & Nameplates Without Acid!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video, I show one method of copper etching called Electrolytic Etching. Using an electrolyte solution of copper sulfate dissolved in water, you can etch copper by applying power to it from a DC power supply.
Check out my website article for more detailed information including links to the items you'll need to do this: carterwilsonworkshop.weebly.co...
Also, over the years I've learned some of these processes from people kind enough to share.
A big resource for me initially was Mordent Design's how to here: mordent.com/etch-howto/
Another learning resource for me was Sherri Haab's TH-cam Channel here: / sherrihaabdesigns
Thanks for watching!
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Website: www.carterwilsonworkshop.com
Instagram: @bradleyboggs ( / bradleyboggs )
Facebook: / carterwilsonworkshop - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
DUDE! I am a woodworker (by hobby) someone asked me to make something for them and I wanted to add a copper accent to it. This process is perfect! Your video is the first one I watched.
I think it is time to go down the rabbit hole.
Thank so much for posting this!
A few minutes in and I decided to stay and watch. You don't beat around the bush, not boring like many others. Thank you brother and God bless.
Thank you for the tip on the chemical ratio. The tough part of milling the reliefs with multiple end mills is as you mill material away, the stock stress relives, and it "potato chips" . All it has to do is move a couple tenths of a thousandths and you end up with steps in the relief. The software I used was "Solidworks" and their post processor to generate the tool changes and "G" codes for the program. I used a Haas vertical machining center, and tried holding .250 thick brass stock in an Anglelock vise with aluminum jaws with a dove tail / step milled into them to hold the stock. Also tried drilling hold down holes in the stock with 82 degree countersinks, and machining a fixture to bolt down the stock with flat head Allen screws so I could mill the relief, then mill the profile all in one shot, and the stock still warped out as the relief was milled. I was milling .093 deep. What consistently works best is to do a rough cut, then adjust tool length offsets in the control, and rerun the program to eliminate the steps. It works great. Just takes a long time. Again, I enjoyed your video, and want to try etching.
Take care
Carter Wilson, I really enjoyed your video. Your instructions were very clear. Loved the letters, seems like the edge could have been worked on. All and all I liked the video. You are a very able teacher. Thanks much.
Since you're removing copper, you can simply use household vinegar with a bit of salt to increase conductivity. The copper sulphate isn't required. The copper in solution is only useful when plating.
That is very interesting. Even though you said it had some flaws. It still looked great. .awesome work.
Outstanding presentation! I finally learned how to do this safely and in a responsible manner. Thank you.
I believe the size of the loop in your wire may be contributing to your border issues. There will be a more intense field created across the circular shape leaving a weaker field etching the border. Also a second plate under the first acting as the negative electrode separated using the foam pads will be more controllable. And distance between plates will change the speed and depth of the etching. The finer control over the dynamics of the field will improve the even etching of the material. I worked on equipment on an industrial scale, scaling it down to what you are doing will have some constants in distance and such but not so much with the field created. Great work, looks likeyou are very close to perfecting your process. Great video. Interesting subject.
Good stuff. I see some people left some tips so I'll leave a few I've learned after doing many many etches.
1) Use a plastic container and use a separate piece of metal as the sacrificial piece. I usually do these vertically on either side of the container or the etched piece faces up with the sacrificial piece suspended above it.
2) Saturate your water with your electrolyte of choice. I've used ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, regular table salt and they all seem about the same. The key seems to be COMPLETELY saturating the water. Use warm water and keep pouring and stirring in the electrolyte until no more dissolves. If you are stirring it and there is still some crystals at the bottom always, you're doing it right.
3) Use as low power as you can stand. A small piece like that I would top out at maybe HALF an amp. Higher power tends to pull the vinyl off sooner as you discovered.
4) Use Oracal 651 (permanent outdoor vinyl) if you aren't. Stickiest I've found, helps with 3) above.
5) Not really important in this case but a handy method of blocking off the parts you don't want etched - paint. Nailpolish actually works great because it dries fast. I usually just put the vinyl down and then cover the rest of the piece in paint (with only a piece of tape to hold the wire to the workpiece). Helps keep water from seeping in around those tape edges. Electrical tape works well too if you have large expanses of area you don't want to waste paint on.
Hope this helps. I am able to get very clean etches with no pitting and no vinyl lifting this way, repeatably.
+DopeItUp Thanks for sharing! I am using the Oracal 651. I think my issues with vinyl adhesion were *mostly* to do with dust under the vinyl near the edges causing it to fail, and perhaps power level as you suggested. I'm definitely going to try a plastic tank with a piece of flat sheet metal as the sacrificial piece. I'm pretty sure my uneven etch surface was due to metal that had been deposited on the sacrificial piece. If it's flat and I'm able to take it out and sand it flat I think that would solve that problem. My very first successful etch where the stainless run was smooth on the bottom came our great (the one in the thumbnail that says "router...". When I get around to revisiting etching with a plastic tank I'll definitely post an update video.
Thank you for posting this. Really Cool!
Great video. I would recommend brushing the solution onto the workpiece thoroughly before submersing into the solution. This helps to prevent air bubbles.
Just my two pennies worth - solder your contact to the corner of copper.
Clean your copper plate with half a lemon and a shot of baking soda to de-oxidise it.
Apply your vinyl as a negative image and remove the excess. Dry the plate and apply a thin layer of wax or nail polish to the whole surface of the plate. Remove the rest of your transfer using a very fine needle to leave the mask in place.
Take a tall glass container and fill it with your electrolyte. Bend a strip of metal for your neg contact and attach the clip. Hang it over the side of the glass. Clip the positive to the plate contact and suspend the plate into the electrolyte. This will prevent bubbles released during the etch from getting trapped on the surface.
Power voltage and amps - the lower end will give a cleaner and go make a coffee and a sandwich and chill for 45 minutes to an hour.
This should give you an etch that you could use for printing if you so wish.
Nice video, great technique 👍🏻
Thank you, sir! Thanks for watching.
Was the second time the distance bicker? That it was harder to leave trough the plastic?
Looks nice
Would you be able to use a 3d print as a resist in order to save material? Or maybe wood. Not sure if it will eat through it. Trying to etch .25 inch stainless steel using the salt water electro etching method. Thanks.
I just found this channel! Great information! I subscribed
Thanks Joe!
Thank you for a great video!
it's been awhile since you've made a video on TH-cam.. I'm sure glad to see you back. I,ve missed you brother. keep the great content coming.
Thanks for the kind words, Jerry! Glad to be back. Definitely have some more videos coming. :)
Yes he speaks for all of us I was first inspired by your power wood carving videos that motivated me to start woodworking. Thanks for coming back
hello, really nice ,,,will this work with brass .
I know this is an old video, but I just watched it after doing my own etching video, with ferric chloride though. I was thinking about your poor results with the vinyl falling off. I was wondering if you had used the other parts of the vinyl as a mask, painted the copper, and then peeled off the mask and etched it like that if the results wouldn't have been better? The paint would act as the resist, and you wouldn't have to worry about the glue of the vinyl failing through the etch.
+Switch & Lever I haven’t tried that yet (didn’t think about it at the time) but that’s been suggested to me since. Definitely going to give it a go next time around! I also think arranging plate vertically in a deeper container and etching for longer periods at lower power seemed to give people better results with the vinyl. Small world by the way - follow you on IG. :)
I’m familiar - the most common is Press N Peel Blue toner transfer paper. I’ve also heard people have used the back wax paper from Avery labels fairly well also. I do intend to give them a shot - just haven’t yet.
I was wondering how well a sharpie marker would work as a resist?
I had the same with vinyl floating off the substrate so I used better, thicker vinyl and it worked perfectly.
Would be interested to hear what brand/type you used.
The final badge with the black background looks really good.
In the following video: th-cam.com/video/TMf-tjnYI7o/w-d-xo.html
Angie is using a plastic container with salt water at 1.5 volts for 3 hours.
Warning, the video was shot in portrait mode.
The video aside, her end result is excellent.
I have tried using vinyl resist with voltage/amperage as low as 1.5V at 100 milliamps for 2-3 hrs of exposure in saltwater solution, and found that I got a good clean etch with no failure of the vinyl resist. I think higher voltage/amperage causes heat which weakens the adhesive of the vinyl.
Thanks for the info! I haven't tried salt water etching yet but it's definitely on my list. Looking back I think some of my vinyl failure issues came from dust under the vinyl near an edge - I think that caused the premature failure by letting fluid in, as other parts of the etch were totally perfect. Live and learn! :)
also heat de-lams vinyl
Have you tried photo etching? No worries about that falling off, and a lot cheaper. I seem to recall someone recommending citric acid powder helps to get a deeper etch when used in combination with an etching method. The blue crystals are in root killer products. They are used to kill roots in your pipes. I believe one brand is called Rootkill. A bubbling stone will also help prevent air bubbles from sitting on the surface and acting as a resist.
+Jerry Whidby I'm definitely familiar with photo etching but haven't tried it. From the research I've done though, it's also pretty finicky about needing the metal to be clean before you apply the photo resist. Definitely familiar with the blue crystals from rootkilller products - that's where I got mine a number of years ago. Some cities and counties have banned this type of chemical for root killer so it's not always available locally and must be ordered. For me, I had to go to the next county to buy it because it was banned in my county.
Carter, I noticed a very wide band saw blade you used to cut our the copper. Where did you get it?
+Bill Hughes That's a Milwaukee portaband portable bandsaw (and accompanying Milwaukee blade). I got the saw and the blades from Home Depot, and the table the saw is mounted in is from swagoffroad.com.
good job lil mistakes here and there but very detailed fun video to watch
Hello . Very cool process. I'm a machinist and have machined detailed plates like this for different applications. Running multiple end mills to get the small details and perfectly matching tool length offsets so there are no steps in the relief areas takes FOREVER !!! Comes out awesome but takes too much time. This process is much easier and you don't need access to a quarter of a million dollar machining center. Question, what is the ratio for the copper sulfate, to distilled water?
Again, great video. Glad you showed the failed piece too so people know what some of the pitfalls are.
Take care
For the ratio on the copper sulfate - basically just keep feeding it in until the water won’t dissolve anymore. I know that’s not very scientific but it’s the method I learned from someone else and have used myself. RE: Plates - you’d be surprised just how many of these type of plates are etched, even now. At my day job we ordered thicker etched plates from commercial etchers every day and the quality was superb. Ironically at my work we bought a Datron CNC to do our engraving now just because adding a new commercial etching solution in California that hasn’t been grandfathered in is ridiculous. Plus dealing with the harsh chemicals is a pain and expensive. One tip - if you do have to mill more plates on a CNC there are softwares out there that do the tool changing and calculations automatically now.
Great video!
Gratitude
Glad you liked it!
I know when etching steel we use the negative black contact to the item youre going to etch and the positive red to a waste peace of same type of metal.... Maybe try that with two types of copper..... Also I don't know it it will be better but try baking soda and tipex or nail varnish for the areas you may need to keep from etching
Can you do this do silver metal clay bronze metal clay or sheet metals other then copper
What is your remedy (ingredients) for cleaning up copper?
Hi. In you're setup you put the piece in upside down (vinyl at bottom). When using electricity you get fine hydrogen bubbles at the side where the metal is exposed to the electrolite.Its very possible you trapped these bubbles on your workpiece leaving an uneven etch. Turn your piece logo up and try to remove the hydrogen bubbles regurarly with a small brush or use a small electric airpump to agitate the solution . Parts where the bubbles remain for a longer period do not etch as much in comparison with parts that do not have these hydrogen bubbles. I hope this helps.
HoutmeyersP Thanks for the input and for checking out the video! As far as I'm aware the piece needs to face the other cathode to allow the etched metal to evacuate properly. From my limited experiments so far and watching other folks, it seems as though the unevenness in the etch is due to the bottom of the pan having an uneven buildup of material from multiple etches. For example,
My first etch in this pan came out really flat and consistent and progressively became less consistent as metal was deposited into the pan. In my next setup, I think I'm going to use a plastic tub and have the work piece and the cathode vertical so they can face each other but let bubbles float to the surface. I've seen quite a few people try this successfully. It would also allow me to remove the cathode more easily and sand it down flat again. When I get around to etching again, I'll likely make a follow up video showing the new setup I have in mind.
I think you will see a very welcome change in the results when you hang your workpiece vertical in the electrolyte... the formed hydrogen bubbles can rise to the top of the electrolyte much easier than. Agitating the solution of moving your workpiece regularly ensures thad no bubbles remain on the same spot on the piece for very long.....the bubbles are causing the uneven etching together with to much electrical power. A lower etching power surely results in longer waiting times...but the result comes out far more evenly/smoother. I have used this technique a lot galvanising stuff in a vinegar/salt solution. Succes !
I wonder if you could spray paint through a stencil to get a better sealed pattern. Then after the etching, just wipe down with paint thinner, or maybe just heat up the copper until the paint burns or peels off.
This is definitely something I want to try - put down stencil vinyl (or even regular vinyl), spray paint it, peel, then etch. This I think will work better than a traditional stencil which doesn’t always mask cleanly.
Have you done this with aluminum? And, how deep can you etch? Btw, that first piece you called a failure would look okay with paint on the letters. Kinda rustic.
Here is a tip. leave the vinyl on the plate attached for at least 2 days on a place outside on the sun, you will be surprised how well the result will be, that is how I have done it. very sharp edges and deep.
Very interesting video and etching process. Thanks for sharing
I missed one thing (I did not see/hear that mentioned in the video but maybe it was there). How long was the etching time?
+Hans de Groot I don’t recall precisely. Somewhere in the 60-90 minute range I believe. I tried different settings and power levels. Some folks have done lower power levels and longer etch times.
Thank you for your quick reply.
What kind of blade do you use on your bandsaw for cutting the metal?
It’s a Milwaukee Portaband saw which is designed for cutting metal. I’m using the Milwaukee-made Portaband blades. I think it’s the finer tooth pitch - something like 14tpi or something like that.
I wash off the copper with salt on half of a lemon. Rub well and you will remove the oxide layer leaving the true color of copper which appears as pink. Rinse off with warm water, dry well with a clean lint free cloth and apply the mask. The etching equipment and solution should be ready to go so the copper goes no the etching bath with little delay.
Excellent idea, thanks
Try washing it with Acetone AFTER using Dawn, I think you will be p[leased with the results.
Anyone know if you could cut out a design in duct tape to use as a resist? I dont have a vinyl cutter lol
good video
would it work, if you used regular (salt)water as the solution??? Water would split into hydrogen and oxygen (very flammable!). And the side the makes O2 oxidizes (corrotes) like hell. don't recall if is the positive or negative lead.....
Pl how to purchase tell me sir
where did you get the table for that saw?
+leonmarhanka The table came from Swag Offroad.
Maybe a grease or a wax would work well as a resist? You could 'print' the wax or grease on to the copper using the relief of the vinyl. Just an idea.
Neat idea you have there making the copper etchings.👍
That’s an interesting thought! Wax definitely has been used as a resist and probably would hold up well. Thanks for the idea - filing that in my noggin for future testing.
You can also use Red Staedtler a Lumocolor CD-R Pen, oil based Sharpie Paint Markers and StazOn solvent ink as a resist.
Can you etch other metals using this method? Brass, aluminium etc...
+Simplex1988 if you check the link to Mordent (either in the description or the website article), they talk about etching on different metals. Essentially certain metals can require different chemicals. That said, I've seen people do this just with kosher salt and seen it work on a variety of metals - just seems to work a bit more slowly.
Okay I have to know, WHAT is that saw you are cutting your copper with? I must have one!
It’s a Milwaukee deep throat portaband saw, mounted in a swag off-road table. One of those tools I don’t use all the time but the times I need it make it totally worth it!
Probably face-down isn't the best. You may want to try constant agitation/vibration or come up with away to stand it vertically.
I usually etched circuit boards vertically.
There may have been hydrogen or oxygen bubbles gathering on the underside,giving the uneven texture, due to the electrolysis.
I think you might be right. For my next etching experiments, I’ve been planning to have the copper vertical and also have the other side of the circuit be a piece of flat sheet metal that I can more easily sand back to flat after the etched material builds up. I’ve also heard of folks adding little fish tank bubblers to help with agitation, but I’m not sure if I’ll try that or not.
How can I etch into a large sheet of copper that has other work and metals built into it?
I would suggest build a plexiglas box around your area to be etched, glued together and down with silicone. The box would be filled with solution and a sacrificial electrode suspended in it.
Nice video...
Are you able to make a custom piece for me? How can I get a quote?
+Carter Wilson Workshop Interesting approach, thanks for sharing in a clear presentation. I am also concerned about etching using less toxic stuff, I am experimenting with ordinary salt (NaCl) and it works rather well. My main problem is finding a material that protects well, is not toxic and not too particular (though I can see how useful Vinyl & its cutting machine can be), and most importantly how do I work detail on it
+Flat Enough I've seen people use paint markers which is pretty easy but perhaps not the most detailed. I've also seen people paint the whole surface with paint or nail polish, and then scratch the areas they wish to etch with an xacto line or scratch awl. Those methods are all really easy and cheap, albeit a bid tedious.
That's because of the way you attach the aluminum to the back. It got hot around the border and the border started to fail
nice
I like the swag
Same process my dad used to copper plate stuff, just reverse the poles.
Even in this arrangement that’s basically what’s happening. If you were to reverse the poles though I think you’d need a copper rich solution or to have both sides of the circuit be copper (in my case I’m basically copper plating the stainless tub, but it wouldn’t work in reverse since the tub isn’t copper).
Forgot to add the copper sacrificial piece into the solution.
there is a trick to get rid of air bubbles. you spray the copper with water and soap. then you press the sticker and then use a flexible spatula to drive water soap and air out. works every time and no water stays under the film.
You are describing how vinyl is applied to van graphics and signage. I agree. DRY application does not get the air out, resulting in bubbles (gaps ), as well as thickness variances from manually stretching the material to try and flattening it. I wonder if using decal material really is the optimal resist right from the start.
Do you think this method can be used to produce wax stamps for sealing envelopes?
+Najey Rifai Possibly. Wax stamps generally have a pretty deep relief compared to these etchings but you’d definitely still see something in the wax. One tip though - you’ll need to flip your artwork and etch it backwards if you plan to try that.
That makes sense. Thanks. Do you know any other methods that could get deeper relief?
+Najey Rifai You could use casting, or machining (CNC).
I'll look into it. Thank you, merry Christmas.
Najey: for deeper relief, consider etching multiple sheets all the way through, then stacking them and brazing the edges together. Consider leaving holes for alignment shims.
Look at he band saw usage between 2:43 to 3:02. This is what a set up looks like for someone destined to loose some fingers.
Set your guide just above the work piece. Should something slip, it pervents your tender body parts from hitting the blade.
+Roger Shoaf I’m definitely aware of safe bandsaw operation, however this style setup (portaband mounted in a table) doesn’t have an upper guide that can come down to the work piece. My fingers were away from the blade as much as the work would allow, and there’s also the possibility that camera angles made things appear more dangerously to you than they in fact were. This is pretty common.
I think it is too much to expect that an open field of metal will be removed evenly. Interesting, but I will stick with acid or ferric chloride for my etchings.
Should have used a rubber roller while the backing was still on. That would have gotten the bubbles out.
Hi everyone, can anyone tell me why we use aluminum wire instead of copper for the contact electrode?
+Jan Kellogg Hi Jan! I think mainly it's because if you use copper, the wire will be eaten away in the copper sulfate etch, and the aluminum not so much. That said, I have had aluminum get eaten though, but that was after multiple uses (5 or 6).
Thanks so much. I'll give it a try. I really appreciate your tutorials. Hope you do more.
Jan Kellogg how about spray painting the back including the wire except for the top which stays above the solution and you connect too. I can't suggest a suitable paint. Or coat the back and wire with grease?
+Ray Kent Both interesting ideas - really probably most paints would work if you let it dry a light first.
I was wondering if you could use Plasti-dip to coat the back and the wire...Plasti-dip can be removed easily and can also be used to pot electronics. Also, could you make a negative with the vinyl cutter and then just paint the copper and remove the vinyl to let the paint protect from the etch?
just fyi electricity flows from negative to positive
You're totally right - and the electrons move in the opposite direction which is why it works like it does (I think). Thanks for chiming in - if I do another electro etching video (which I may), I'll clarify that.
Just found this but I was taught many years ago, that direct current or DC electricity is the continuous movement of electrons from an area of negative (−) charges to an area of positive (+) charges through a conducting material. Engineers use conventional current on all mathematics which is positive (+) to negative (-) but it doesn't change the fact electrons still flow from negative (−) to positive (+) but A really good video I never thought of using vinyl and I will be trying that. It would be good if you could do an update explaining in more depth about Etching. A Thumps up from me.
@@1militarymike Actually electrons drift only a fraction of a millimeter per second. Conventional current is when potential is assumed to be moving from positive to ground; Electrical current is when potential is assumed to be moving from negative to ground. So anybody can call electricity anything as long as the other person gets the intended message.
Copper sulfate poured down drains kills those tree roots that block drains.
Funny enough, that black vinyl on copper actually looked really nice by itself
Still good job on the etching!
how much copper sulfate to how much water
I don’t have a specific measurement. Basically keep dissolving copper sulfate in the water until it won’t take can’t more, and strain out the excess
Thanks can`t wait to do this
You can find a more detailed article and supplies list on my website here:
carterwilsonworkshop.weebly.com/blog/etching-copper-badges-nameplates
E for Effort 😊😁😘
Paint or nail polish seem to work best
RUBBER ROLLER to get the bubbles out before you even know you have them.
Мухич,ты ли это..
Plastic allows the electons to go trough
It could be that you left in the solution too long
"Electrocute yourself" on 5V and 5A???
Andork Kuomo Variable power supplies can provide more amperage than shown. Mine goes to 30 amps. Knobs can get bumped, and accidents are never planned.
Burn, yes. Electrocute, no.
5a is the max amps it can provide. it cant provide 5a cause the 5volts are not enough to pass any amps through your skin cause your skin has some megaohms resistance. everything under 50volts DC are safe for that reason.
Electrocute means to kill with electricity, The word you wanted was "shock" not "electrocute".
@@BeetleJuice1980 what if he touch his tongue to the positive and negative side by mistake? :) he can tingle his tongue.
O
You're wrong brother
DC power flows from negative to positive not from positive to negative
The electron current, which is most of the current does. Within semiconductors there also is a hole current though, which goes the other way.
did you say 'pour the waste down the drain'? 'cos copper suplphate is consideed toxic to water wildlife. you might want to amend that comment
I'm by no means a chemical and toxicity expert, but I know the copper sulfate solution I'm using is intended to be poured down the drain. I'm guessing it's not good for water wildlife, just like bleach and drain cleaner aren't as well (and wouldn't be good for humans either). Having said that, I shared the recommended use/disposal method that I'm aware of for that. If you happen to know of a better/more environmentally friendly way to dispose of it, I'm definitely interested in hearing it and would love for you to share with us in the comments.
Wouldn't the correct thing to do is contact your local council/water treatment authority for advise? In the UK we now have decent waste disposal centres for home users that handle many items (in low volumes).
+totaltwit In the county where I live it's okay to pour this stuff down the drain. I have checked. That said, I've not actually poured any down the drain because it's reusable indefinitely since the copper isn't suspended in the solution, as is case with acid etching.
I didn't check I poured it in a nearby pond used by cute ducks and school kids learning to fish. lol the kid's hair all turned bright white.....anywho back to the video
The kid's white hair actually came from an auto accident. He said that it was from when the cars had smashed him so hard Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm
you could have just "painted" the solution onto the exposed metal... anything else is just a muck around.
Not really. It takes a lot of time for the etching to happen. And it also needs both sides of the electrical circuit. Some forms of etching allow for that but this isn’t one of them.
You know that etching literally means “aciding”