It's not like she got a medal at the end. Her changing her mind after realizing how evil Syndrome really is doesn't mean she was redeemed, and I don't think the audience was expected to think she was either. You can't really say it's a poorly-executed redemption arc if it was never intended to be one in the first place.
My thoughts exactly. And it's not hard to believe once she finds out Syndrome wouldn't care if she died that they would start making her Reconsider things. Besides, she's not the only villain who has a line that she won't cross. The Joker Will kill and torture millions, including children. But draws the line at tax evasion and being a nazi. Lmao
And when Synderome targetted the plane with kids in it, it could be argued that finally Mirage had to face the evil of Syndrome. She couldn't just be distant and see/ignore child casualties that would happen via Syndrome's plan
@@itsblitz4437 , The Joker didn't want to work with Red Skull 💀 💀 in the Marvel and DC crossover comics, and him not committing tax evasion was in the original Batman Animated Series.
The thing is there's a HUGE difference between killing adult Supers who chose to take down the Omnidroid and killing a Mom and her kids and forcing the Dad to listen to his wife and kids die while he's helpless to save his family and then to add salt to the wound Syndrome dared a furious grieving father and husband to kill Mirage and how was Syndrome so certain that Bob in his agonizing grief wouldn't have kill her Also as far as hugging Mirage keep in mind Bob had spent atleast 12 hours believing that Helen, Violet, Dash and as far as he knew Jack - Jack were dead and that he would never see his family again so when Mirage told him that Helen and the kids were alive Bob was clearly overwhelmed with relief that his family was alive and on the island
I felt the hugging argument was pretty nitpicky, I feel like at the news of your family not being wiped out after being forced to listen to them presumably die- yeah I would've also felt like hugging something and or someone, really anybody.
This does make some sense, at least. It's easier to disassociate yourself from hundreds of lives in a far away city where you don't actually know anyone. But with Mirage & Mr. Incredible, she spent at least two months getting to know him, which left her open to an emotional attachment. Mirage is not a good person, but it's harder to distance yourself from these things when you're right there, hearing this father and husband's anguish in real time. Mirage isn't a good person, Syndrome just made an error in his plans by allowing Mirage an opening to get attached to his enemy. So when he disregards her safety, especially during a moment of emotional anguish, it makes it easier for her to turn on him.
@@lifeisadrag7705He doesn't like her as a person but he was glad she delivered to him good news. One good deed doesn't reedem or remedy what she has done for Syndrome. But, Bob was happy to hear it regardless and probably instinctively hugged her.
Mirage did say she was attracted to power during her dinner with Mr. I. Maybe that's why she's doing it and maybe she has some hatred or contempt for supers. She just draws the line at children.
No she doesn’t, she only turned against Syndrome after he allows Mr. Incredible to crush her to death. She realized he didn’t really care about her and it scared her. She didn’t turn against him after he killed children.
@@iamtfred Yeah it would of been better if they at least implied she either loved Syndrome for his "power", aka beating strong hero's with his genius. Or even she tried to seduce the various hero's she got killed as well. But at the end of the day we had zero motivation of why she helped Syndrome. Which made her flipping sides in the final arc even less impactful because we barely knew why she was helping a villain in the first place beyond "a paycheck". I mean after watching the video I guess there is a very vague sense she and Syndrome had a relationship, but I honestly never even noticed it watching it as a kid.
I think the difference is this was the first time Mirage saw the effects what she and Syndrome were doing. She was aware Supers were being killed but she didn't witness it so it didn't bother her until that point. But this time she had a front row seat to hear the fear in Helen's voice and see Bob's grief afterwards and it made her realize how wrong what they were doing was. I suppose it's easier to drop a bomb on thousands of people you'll never have to see than to pull the trigger of a gun pointed at someone you have to look into the eyes of.
Keep in mind Mirage didn't know that Helen and the kids had powers so when Syndrome had 'killed' Bob's wife and kids as far as Mirage knew they had killed a defenseless Woman and her kids
agreed, she also wouldn't care that much about Syndrome making weapons cause she was living on a remote possibly uncharted island, once his war on supers arrived at her doorstep she could truly see what her actions have caused.
Assuming Mirage was in a relationship with Syndrome, and is attracted to power as she said, then I think her character arc holds up. Instead of seeing the beneficial results of the 'plans' Syndrome has been cooking up, she's watching someone panic as their kids are killed, and the anger and grief that comes from that. There's a huge difference between assumed pain and visible pain. Her pushing Syndrome to the side also makes sense, as she's (assumedly) in a relationship with him. No matter how awful a thing the person you love has done, your feelings don't just vanish, you know? It was a split second decision made out of seemingly instinct, as how else would she react that quickly? I think that rather than criticising her character for saving a bad person, I think it's actually a pretty realistic show of how attached you can be to people who treat you poorly (maybe stockholm 'syndrome', if they wanted to play with that pun a bit more). She doesn't just 'become a good person', and she's not applauded for it either. Bob just gets emotional finding out his family is alive, and the single person he has on his side right now as far as he knows is right in front of him. Bob is shown to be an emotional and impulsive person, it's very realistic that he'd show his happiness physically here. Mirage isn't a good person, and the end of her arc doesn't show her becoming one. It just shows her helping someone she now thinks is good, against someone who she seemingly cares for a lot, whether consciously or subconsciously. While it can be argued that Mirage is a 'plot device', I don't know if that really holds water. Her character is consistent, and (assuming she's both a bad person, attracted to power, and in a relationship with Syndrome at the start of the movie) all of her actions make sense. She's attracted to power, so she dates the most powerful man she finds and helps with plans that will cement them at the top of the totem pole. She's a bad person (at the beginning of the movie, at least) who only realises something is wrong with her lifestyle and her partner when she: 1. Sees her partner commit an atrocity right in front of her. Not making a robot kill an adult who can defend themselves, but being the person to (as far as she can tell) kill children in front of their father. 2. Sees the pain this causes to Bob right in front of her. Instead of thinking of Syndrome's plans as 'a way to gain power', she now sees the pain that actually causes. Numbers are very different to individual people, and seeing someone feel horrible pain in person is a heavy thing to carry. 3. Her partner bets her life on Mr. Incredible being 'unable to kill her'. This puts her life on the line, and shows Syndrome doesn't care as much about her as she does him, instantly after she saves his life. I like your video, it made me think about my favourite movie in a way I hadn't before. But I do think it falls apart under scrutiny. Mirage is a fine character, and she adds to the story in meaningful ways with a character arc that is both realistic and weaves well into the themes of the movie. Personally, I really like how Mirage is utilised in the film, and her arc is fun.
Just remember that human beings are complex machines, and we can react differently to seemingly indistinguishable stimuli based on barely-perceptible differences. Up until the point in the story where she turned, Mirage had been helping Syndrome kill old superheroes. Who knows what sorts of lies Syndrome had been feeding her about them? Maybe she had accepted that what she was doing was wrong, but that the money and power that she was gaining in return was worth the moral cost. Syndrome's final plan had not yet been enacted, and she hadn't yet seen innocent, dying children on her viewscreens. Perhaps she thought she would ultimately be okay with that, or that she could look away when the time came, but witnessing firsthand the (supposed) visceral deaths of the Parr children evoked a deep emotional response in her. Then Syndrome pushed her over the edge by gambling with her life. I still agree that she should have faced consequences after the fact (and the story, as told, doesn't preclude that possibility), but it seems to me that there are myriad ways of explaining her reactions to the events unfolding around her.
Imo, this video has a very faulty analysis on a very mature movie. People can be inconsistent and change their minds. This happens irl. And she was given a perfectly good reason to do so.
And also remember that she was willing to sacrifice her own life or her employer and I guess her boyfriend. He had no regard for her even lying and say he had called mister Incredibles bluff even though he didn't know for sure
I don't find this to be that compelling of an argument. If they wanted to give her more nuance then they should've put that in the movie. All that we know, based on the movie itself, is that Mirage was willing to hunt down and aide in the killing of superheroes. She has access to the logs room showing the amount of superheroes killed. She has access to the logs showing Syndrome's plan of unleashing the Omnidroid on a city. Unless otherwise stated, Mirage knew and supported Syndrome whole-heartedly. You're just diving into a head canon.
Okay, there's a huge difference between the risk of some unknown children maybe being in danger, and knowing that a missile is being directed at multiple children while their father screams for them to stop. One is out of sight out of mind, the other is an in your face atrocity. She's clearly no hero, but the movie never really treats her as one. She helped the heroes out at the end, and only Mr. Incredible has any reason to think she was a major player in this whole scheme, and from what he saw I think it's reasonable for him to assume she was manipulated or just following orders. Conclusion, she's not a bad character, she's just not as well done as the others in the movie.
I honestly not entirely sure it's about the kids either. She is "attracted to power" by one line drop in the movie. And well Mr. Incredible has been beating Buddy's Robot for weeks/months by that point. If Syndrome killing hero's before attracted her to his power, maybe her crush switched to Mr Incredible because he proved himself to be the stronger person. So her over all reaction wasn't entirely about the kids, but the fact it hurt Mr. Incredible because they were his kids. I also have some doubts Syndrome and her were ever in a relationship. Mirage might of liked Syndrome and been attracted to his power, but her reaction to the Hug kind of makes you feel like she was lacking physical affection. Aka Syndrome either never returned her affections, or was a very abusive and selfish lover.
You're operating on the assumption that mirage knew that Syndrome actually killed the heroes and didn't tell her about every lart of his plan. If Mirage was his number 2, its conceivable that he kept secrets from her. Additionally, Syndrome's plan was to fake a robot invasion in order to make himself a superhero in the eyes of the public, only to later sell his inventions to the public. If thats the pitch he gave Mirage, then by all accounts she was very ignorant to the fact that he was actually killing people and wasn't just scamming them.
Especially if Mirage had loved Syndrome enough to risk herself in order to protect him, and be so shocked as to why he gambled on her life. I always felt like their relationship was a recent product of their aligning views on supers.
I thought I was tripping because even people defending Mirage are forgetting the initial plan was to fake the robot invasion. Like they would do just enough damage to be threats before Syndrome stepped in to "save" everyone. It's been a while since I watched the movie, but I'm very certain that's what happened.
I haven't seen Incredibles 2 and didn't know that was what they did with The Underminer. For me, the cannon Underminer story is the video game Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer. Goated game with a story that actually fits the "War on peace and happiness" theme The Underminer had going on.
We did see a bad guy get away, in the Mr. Huph scene. The mugger runs off and Mr. Incredible says "He got away." That's literally one of the four or so lines about the mugging situation ever spoken. Mr. Huph being complicit "Let's hope we don't cover him!", "Good thing, too!" Were literally the inciting incident for Bob's explosive rage and leaving his job. The apathy of the world in general also shows a positive use case for legal superheroes. _That's_ how to write a bad guy getting away with it.
Was she aware that syndrome was going to unleash the robot onto the city? I’d think syndrome would be the kind of guy not to share that part of the plan in order to keep her loyal to his scheme. And while she must have known about the death of other supers, those deaths won’t have involved her as directly as the plane explosion did. I think humans are complex enough machines for her change of mind not to be underdeveloped or stupid from a story/character perspective
@@BillboMCRight? I could see Syndrom lying to her about the damage he was going to cause. He was going there to be a hero. His whole objective was to save the city and stop the droid. It rampaged because it was uncontrolled
Not necessarily. The plan was to make a big show of the attack and then use it as advertising to buy some of Syndrome’s tech. This plan would have been controlled and kept casualties to a minimum, although it would be unfortunate if any did occur. The plane scene was completely under Syd’s control and was far more tame and had far less stakes than the city, yet he eagerly let the missiles hit it. The city was part of a morally grey plan that was sold to Mirage while the plane scene was unplanned and showed Syd’s lack of self control.
I don't think you've got the right read on the hug. Mr incredible was so overcome at hearing his family was alive that he had a spontaneous expression of emotion. Like the photo of the sailor kissing a woman in Times square on VJ day.
If I were to guess why Mirage’s character wasn’t corrected in the writing process of the movie, I’d say that when she said she was attracted to power, she inclusively meant things that made a strong impression. Her moral compass, as unruly as it seems to be, tells her that targeting 3 people to kill, 2 of them being children, makes Syndrome seem weak rather than strong. And in her sacrifice to save him, with him being nonchalant about it, was the last nail in the coffin, cause she doesn’t wanna die
I also felt it was because she might of already lost respect for Syndrome. His power was his tech, and Mr. Incredible had been beating his robot for weeks/months by that point. Syndrome had already been proven to be weaker than Mr. Incredible. So I don't entirely feel it was just because there were kids on the plane, but because they were Mr. Incredible's kids, some one she was starting to like/crush on. Also seen as a weaker man attacking Mr. Incredibles family because he couldn't beat him in a fight.
I wouldn't say Mirage is a bad character, just that she's not intended to be interpreted like the others in the film. True she was willing to risk the lives of people in the city but it's possible she thought it would only be minimal damage. As far as she knew Syndrome had full control of the robot so once it had done some minor damage and scared everyone, the whole thing would stop. Syndrome would fly in, fake battle the robot and then that would be it. That's also probably why she was so shocked when Syndrome was willing to kill the kids on the plane. At that point she may have been responsible for the deaths of hero's but when children got involved it became way too much for her. Honestly there's still more they could have explored in the arc for her character if they wanted in another film. She could ether become a ruthless villain who was always out for herself or her arc could continue into her becoming a good person. I can ether see her growing into a more major role as a side villain along side another main threat or possibly joining as an actual government agent who works to hunt down other people like syndrome.
On the killing children point…maybe she is able to…for lack of a better term…not think about the possibility when it’s done by the robot, but EXPLICITLY killing children while multiple people (one of which she’s in the same room as) are begging her boss not to, crosses a line…she’s still processing it, but there’s a difference between hearing a casualty report on the news, and actively being involved with (as fas as she knows) murdering a man’s family while he’s in the room
Syndrome didn’t care when she was gonna crushed by Mr. Incredible. For all he knows Bob could’ve killed her. I don’t think she has a say in what Syndrome decides.
I like to think that he knows that Bob wouldn't do it He stares directly into the mans' eyes with his head tilted away Clearly knowing where the power is
The only reason I'd say her change of heart is not crazy is one thing: direct contact. It's similar to why someone is much more likely to push a button that kills someone in a different room than they are to pull a trigger on someone right in front of them. Before it was just business, she was living a nice life with the guy she likes and who provides everything she wants and needs, with vague notions of people dying far away from her. In that scene however she gets to hear first hand a mother desperately telling them to call off the missiles because she and her children will die, followed by the pain and rage of that woman's husband, whose life she just ruined (it's kind of similar to why it is important to talk to your captor if your kidnapped and tell about yourself and your family: it forces them to humanize you instead of treating you like some faceless nobody they can easily kill, and that might just save your life). That moment of realizing just what she's been doing is then immediately followed by 2 additional shifts: she sees firsthand that she's just as disposable to the man she's with as everyone else. Meanwhile the man whose life she's ruined and whose family she's just killed (as far as she knows) and who had every single reason to give her a painful, potentially drawn out death on the floor didn't follow through with it. That's a lot of things happening at once, all of which are in direct conflict with her previous notions: she realized what it means for her luxury life to be built upon a mountain of bodies of people with families and dreams, she realized that the one she's infatuated with and works for would kill her without a second thought, and she realized there's people out there who would look you in the eye and spare you despite having all the power and reasons in the world to kill you. Her entire world view just shattered, and in such a moment, it's not that surprising she'd try to anchor herself on and help out the only person who showed her they genuinely care even if they have reason not to: Mr incredible.
I thought Mirage was like some kind of super advanced robot that’s disguised as a woman, I mean she looks and sounds like a futuristic robot with how monotone she is. Also I’d have a feeling if syndrome can freeze people with some electro stuff, make miniature bombs you can fit in the palm of your hands and make giant evil robots I think he could make a robot woman too
It is nice to see someone bring up a complaint about the Incredibles that DOESN'T involve being mad at Mr. Incredible's justified anger towards Incrediboy.
Yeah, no, that's probably exactly what her thought process was. Nobody knew the Omnidrone would learn to turn in its creator and target the remote control.
The most interesting part about Mirage is how she subverts the role she fills: she's a sexy seductress who doesn't actually lure Mr. Incredible into a ficticious romance. Rather, she lures him into danger by using his desperation for excitement in his life and validation from hero work against him. Yeah, they have that one dinner scene together, but for the most part, Mr. Incredible has zero interest in Mirage, and she doesn't really put the moves on him. She's just a ploy to make Elasta-Girl THINK her husband was having an affair, but that never actually happened.
In the he voice acting in my country, when she says that line, her Voice starts low and uncertain and grows stronger as she speaks, giving the impression that was not a previously held believe, but something she realized as she spoke
6:53, Possibility 1, she hasn’t thought it through, possibility 2, she’s a hypocrite, possibility 3, she was able to rationalize it theoretically but not in practice (like Catwoman in The Dark Knight Rises), possibility 4, the writers did a bad job with her
I did really like her character but she wasn't ment to be the main character. I'd like to know how she ended up living tho. I don't think she's a better person now, she only decided not to help Syndrome anymore. Still I'm glad somebody talks about her too She sure could've been written better. Like seeing her questioning everything a bit sooner or feeling a bit guilty. Or on the other hand show us she just wants a revenge on Syndrome now. But you can't have both. Or maybe show us she didn't know about the plan and she found out and that's when she turns on a "good" side.
Honestly I would like to see her come back in incredibles 3 because after all of the nonsense that she did i'm curious to see what she's been up to and there was not even a single mention of her in the second flim.
Is it said how long Mirage has been working for Syndrome and what heroes she's helped kill directly? I know the assumption that she helped kill them all, but I'd enjoy some insight on her motives. If she killed heroes, did she have similar values to Screenslaver?
Well unless Syndrome kills and replaces his "Second in command" that often, I highly doubt Mirage just joined up to lure in Mr. Incredible. Not only is she the public face of Syndromes actions, she seemingly had near unlimited access to the base and it's secrets. Was she there for every kill? Perhaps not, but I would bet she had been around for at least most of them.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming While it's possible he killed them, it's also possible many of them had fallen into similar situations where the hero threatened to kill the SIC and succeeded. Or Mirage was always there but never really had much interactions with heroes outside of being the "public face" for Syndrome, and thus never saw his cruelty and thus never knew how expendable she was.
I think she took it at face value that the supers deserved what they got as not only were they flaws but all the issues about them were in some ways valid. Look at how the world did actually no longer have any villains once the supers where gone and only had them again once they came back. Plus Syndromes plan was to just blow up some cars and buildings, make a big mess not going out of their way to kill people. She believed with him in control it would be okay but after she nearly could have died she realized what a crazy person he was. Also pretty sure she was arrested and made to work for the government as shown in a comic
I rather liked and disliked her character. She had the set up to be an amazing character. Working for a villain for years, seeking out hero's and talking them into coming to the island to be killed. Except it fails a bit in that she seemed to have no motivation for this act other than just having a job. She didn't love Syndrome, she didn't have some deep past abuse at the hands of a hero or anything. She also mostly flips because Syndrome was going to kill kids, which seemingly came out of no where considering what seemed like dozens of people already dead at her hands. People she went out to meet in person to convince them to come. Having to do all that research, she had to know who had a family and what not as she killed them. Then you have the conclusion, which is basically she just off screens and is never seen again. Not going to jail, not killed just vanished and totally ignored in the sequel mostly because the Voice actress died I believe.
She isn’t a bad character. Mirage was a plot device. She tells the audience information about the villain and she gives the heroes some help. She said she’s attracted to power and by switching sides, it shows that mr incredible and his family has more power than a rich inventor who wants revenge.
We'll never fully know for certain, but judging by how Syndrome disregarded Mirage's life when Bob threatened to kill her, by saying show me, implying that he'd feel satisfaction if Mirage was crushed to death. We can only assume that he wouldn't have cared or shown any ounce of concern for her casualty and most likely would've just continued with his plan regardless. This is an interesting question for debate though.
@@taylornusteling8692 One of my most contemplated scenes in the movie is when Mirage thereafter rejects Syndrome's advances and tells him "Next time you gamble, bet your OWN life!" and if you pay attention to the scene, Syndrome has an expression on his face that looks as if he genuinely doesn't understand why Mirage is angry with him. I believe that this shows that he doesn't truly understand what it is to value life, because all he knows is his "kill or be killed" mentality on the world.
I gotta say this is very big stretch to say the least about Mirage character. She was never shown not to have a care for anyone or anything she clearly cared about syndrome also the part with the children on board even someone who works for someone evil or someone evil can have a moral compass its what makes her not a static villian. Can draw a line she knew who mr incredible was she didn't know about his family also the endangering of innocent children plus the part where she risked her life to save syndrome and him showing no compassion whatsoever when mr Incredible could have killed her easily which is why she said bet your own life. This also doesn't mean she turned away from being bad she just had no more obligations in her mind to help syndrom anymore so she freed mr incredible I don't see this as out of pocket. Mirage character is fine just like the whole film.
I always had a good rewrite for her that still wouldnt ruin her. Id extend the conversation between her and syndrome when she decides to leave him. She'd yell at Syndrome she only joined out of jealousy for supers because, in another twist, her brother was Gamma Jack. Because of this she was extremely jealous the he always got the attention and admiration growing up and she felt outcasted by her family for being the little sister without superpowers. It was made even worse that Jack had a severe megalomania complex and saw supers as "the superior kind". Eventually that jealousy boiled into hatred for superheroes. But because she has no powers, Mirage took a more sneaky approach and climbed her way to the top of Syndromes company out of sheer spite. When she saw Syndrome was putting superheroes into extinction she was instantly attracted to him for that reason. Also, after Syndrome is defeated, id add a scene of Mirage turning over Syndrome's data and everything involving Project Kronos to Rick followed by her being arrested. She faced punishment for her crimes and turned herself in and exposed Syndrome and gave all the families of the deceased Supers closure
I don't think mirage was really intended to have an arch, but rather be a story telling device and a symbol. For Mr. Incredible she is literally a mirage. A vague alluring thing that draws you towards the horizon, but ultimately was fake. For elastigirl, she's the manifestation of her insecurities. She's a seductive woman who has been engaging with Mr. Incredible behind her back. For syndrome she's just an object and a tool to be used and to own. She's a mirage. People look at her and see what their subconscious makes them see. Her arc is just that she subverts everyone's perceptions by changing allegiance.
I’ve never read it as a redemption arc. I read her arc as a woman standing up to her toxic and abusive boyfriend when she realizes he never has and never will care for her.
I watched that show with my cusions when I was 6 and all the girls loved mirage, which annoyed me to a point I started crying! because I had the exact same complaints about her and I viewed her as a selfish hypocrite too. (I gues I was just a veryyy inteligent 6 yo to undrestand all of that XD)
I see where youre coming from, and your points aren't bad. But yourr foundation is weak. You made assumptions. Syndrome's whole objective was to unleash a bot that the supers couldn't stop, but he could. No one could outshine him then. He wanted to be the hero and he's already shown to be manipulative. It wouldn't be farfetched to say, he either 1. Didnt tell her, 2. Lied about what the potential damage would be or 3 expected no casualties because hes actually controlling the bot. It being unleashed was never part of the plan. So when he was about to kill his family, that shinned a whole new light on who he was, and what he would do for his goal. I just think she didn't sign up for all that.
mirage going along with syndromes ultimate plan of taking the robot into the city makes sense because up until later in the movie syndromes had full control of the robot and the plan is to freak everyone out and then pretend to save the day, and sticking up for bob and his family. the company she runs with her romantic partner syndrome sells weapons of mass destruction to whoever has the most money, her line "im attracted to power" implies she's with syndrome because in a world where war is the most profitable venture, her partner isnt the guy shooting the gun or ordering where and when to fire but the guy who invented the gun and the guy who decides gets to use his guns. together they live far away from the resulting tragedy of their business because they are in control. its only when she realizes the man who she perceives has all the control is just as bad as the people they sell to but also willing to let her die just to prove a point. she realizes hes someone who will personally kill children to make himself happy. idk its fuckin nuanced
6:27 Honestly, this works for me because human behavior doesn't always make logical sense. When I saw that scene (the one you were referencing) I always thought "ah she is one of those people", the hypocritical "I'm fine with X when it doesn't happen to me, but when it does..." people. It's kind of like in The Prince of Egypt Moses doesn't "wish to see" anything wrong about the slaves before he Meets Aaron and Miriam at that well and later realizes he is personally involved. th-cam.com/video/nSdWggEtRQs/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/s3XgR6rjT-A/w-d-xo.html
Honestly i think you did more to justify her as a good character then prove she was a bad one. Still not a great charicter but you explained her importance quite well.
I’d like to say thank you. I’ve had the same thoughts as you. Mirage was always a direct and wiling accomplice to murdering supers in the incredibles, but people NEVER bring it up how Mirge has gotten countless people killed, so her “valuing life is not weakness” line, for as cool as it is, is kinda hypocritical. Still she’s a cool character.
Also there's a difference between. Killing adult Supers who are fully in control of their powers and killing a Mom and her kids that she had no if Helen and the kids had powers or if they were fully in control of them Helen - yes she was fully in control of her powers Violet and Dash - not really
@@kllk12ful , she was complacent in killing superhero 🦸 🦸 children, so suddenly her deciding killing children is wrong is as much as of a flip flop in ideologies as the ideologies presented in the Civil War film/comic.
not to mention (though not heavily implied) we can make the very reasonable assumption that at least some if not most of those supers killed had families (great catch with her turn benefiting her
I feel like her ideal change regarding harming people, she might’ve not been very involved with syndromes previous killings, so hearing Helen on the radio and the genuine distress could’ve shocked her into changing so suddenly. Of course that doesn’t excuse her previous actions nor does it magically maker her character writing perfect, I do think the hug was weird and she definitely should’ve been “punished” more
When Bob and Helen meet up again before the climax, we’ve all seen the scene. Bob fell in love with her, but the moment he finds out his family survived the explosion he immediately goes back to Helen. Personally it makes me cringe, it’s played off as comedy, but I just can’t take it as a joke, considering the context being Bob immediately moving on.
@@ssesssusman9417 uh you do realize that the reason why Bob was hugging Mirage in the first place was due to her telling him that Helen and the kids were alive he was so overwhelmed with relief that his family was alive after spending atleast 12 hours thinking his family was dead of course the first thing Bob does after being told that his family is okay is to hug the person who told him that
In my opinion, her character is pretty good, but needed more info for her to become as great as the other characters. It’s implicitly implied that they’re in a relationship: seeing how narcissistic Syndrome is, I wished they made a few scenes where they showed how sweet and gentle (in a manipulative way) he is towards Mirage, to make her realisation more impactful. For her to understand how evil he really is in that moment, it would’ve meant that, before he showed he didn’t care about children dying and then Syndrome daring Mr. Incredible to kill her, she perceived him as a guy who was wronged and just wanted to prove himself. Imagine the amount of lies she’s been told… If they did this with her character, it would’ve been memorable not only because it would’ve added substance to a pretty bland character, but it would’ve also represented a similar situation that unfortunately a lot of women go through in real life.
I like Mirage, she is a very beautiful woman, one of my favourite characters and i'm so happy that she reformed at the end. I want to see her return so in the upcoming incredibles 3 so much, she's having a better life and becomes a good and close friend of the superhero family. Hopefully someone else can replace her late voice actress
What if Mirage was a super too? Her power could be invisibility, which would explain how she just pops up. But I personally think it would be even crazier if her power was memory alteration or something similar. THAT would 100% explain away why she just appears and why nobody questions anything about her. Woulda been nice if that was elaborated on in the second movie
I always did think she was the weakest character in the movie, mostly cuz she kinda is just gone and she’s ok with genocide but not murdering kids and it was really syndrome not caring if she died or not that changed her mind. It was less of a personal moral thing and more of a selfish form of self preservation and almost revenge in a small way. Her redemption is a bit lacking and her line about the whole disregarding life can still apply to her. Then again, people who are ok with genocide and murder of others different usually aren’t very self aware. And a possible one sided relationship can really screw with people
I feel this way about Eren in AOT. The ending ends with the characters almost ignoring the rumbling because Eren apparently didn't want to genocide the earth only 80% of it. Like Mr. Incredible hugging Mirage, feels like Mikasa kissing Eren after cutting off his head after he had completed his genocide plan. (Gross by the way.) With Mirage it's negligible because she's only a small part of the movie but with Eren, he's the main character which makes it much worse.
As for Bob hugging Mirage he was simply overwhelmed with relief that Helen and the kids were alive after spending a whole night believing his family was dead he was so grateful that Mirage had told the news that his family was okay that he hugged her
@@kllk12ful Understandable. But he still saw for himself the kinds of things she was involved with. Also the scene could have easily continued with Mr. Incredible not believing her because she did almost nothing to earn his trust. She freed him but never even apologized for the presumed death of his family. And then Helen could show up and convince him that it was true. Then they could hug as husband and wife.
Don't get me wrong, Mirage does look beautiful but that's only on the outside. The rest of the video, I agree with everything you said about her since her redemption arc had me confused and raising an eyebrow.
The reason Mr Incredible hugs her instead of punishing her is that she's hot. Sadly, hot people get away with a lot of crap. Also, I definitely think she disappeared as soon as she sensed Syndrome was going down. Changed her name (Mirage probably wasn't her actual name) and poof.
I thought Bob hugging Mirage was due to overwhelming relief that Helen and the kids were alive keep in mind Bob spent had entire night thinking his wife and kids were dead so Bob hugging Mirage was understandable
TV Tropes has a name for this: High-Heel-Face Turn (pun on pro wrestling's heel/face terminology). Essentially, female villains, especially attractive ones, are more likely to turn to the good side. It's mostly rooted in sexism (e.g., women are weaker, ruled more by their emotions, etc.), and though I wouldn't call The Incredibles an especially sexist movie overall, it's not particularly anti-sexist, either. One might point to Elastigirl (and to a lesser extent, Violet) being shown as extremely capable places it more on the positive end of that scale, but then again most of her role in the film is either super-mom or suspicious wife, so it's not breaking *much* ground there. I guess my point is more that the sexism in The Incredibles is more a typical representation of our cultural expectations (and cultural sexism) than this film being an outlier in either direction. (insert disclaimer that you can enjoy a film while acknowledging its flaws, I think overall The Incredibles is a very good movie, and Helen's a great character)
7:35 I honestly don't think it's weird. It's not about her - if his old boss had come in to deliver the same news, he probably would have done the same thing. As the bearer of the good news, psychologically she becomes a stand-in for the news itself, and *that's* what he's hugging.
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It's not like she got a medal at the end. Her changing her mind after realizing how evil Syndrome really is doesn't mean she was redeemed, and I don't think the audience was expected to think she was either. You can't really say it's a poorly-executed redemption arc if it was never intended to be one in the first place.
My thoughts exactly. And it's not hard to believe once she finds out Syndrome wouldn't care if she died that they would start making her Reconsider things. Besides, she's not the only villain who has a line that she won't cross. The Joker Will kill and torture millions, including children. But draws the line at tax evasion and being a nazi. Lmao
And when Synderome targetted the plane with kids in it, it could be argued that finally Mirage had to face the evil of Syndrome. She couldn't just be distant and see/ignore child casualties that would happen via Syndrome's plan
@@channel45853that's what it seems like
@rosestar1324 that's a thing?
@@itsblitz4437 , The Joker didn't want to work with Red Skull 💀 💀 in the Marvel and DC crossover comics, and him not committing tax evasion was in the original Batman Animated Series.
The thing is there's a HUGE difference between killing adult Supers who chose to take down the Omnidroid and killing a Mom and her kids and forcing the Dad to listen to his wife and kids die while he's helpless to save his family and then to add salt to the wound Syndrome dared a furious grieving father and husband to kill Mirage and how was Syndrome so certain that Bob in his agonizing grief wouldn't have kill her
Also as far as hugging Mirage keep in mind Bob had spent atleast 12 hours believing that Helen, Violet, Dash and as far as he knew Jack - Jack were dead and that he would never see his family again so when Mirage told him that Helen and the kids were alive Bob was clearly overwhelmed with relief that his family was alive and on the island
I was about to say that 👍
THIS
I felt the hugging argument was pretty nitpicky, I feel like at the news of your family not being wiped out after being forced to listen to them presumably die- yeah I would've also felt like hugging something and or someone, really anybody.
This does make some sense, at least. It's easier to disassociate yourself from hundreds of lives in a far away city where you don't actually know anyone.
But with Mirage & Mr. Incredible, she spent at least two months getting to know him, which left her open to an emotional attachment. Mirage is not a good person, but it's harder to distance yourself from these things when you're right there, hearing this father and husband's anguish in real time.
Mirage isn't a good person, Syndrome just made an error in his plans by allowing Mirage an opening to get attached to his enemy. So when he disregards her safety, especially during a moment of emotional anguish, it makes it easier for her to turn on him.
@@lifeisadrag7705He doesn't like her as a person but he was glad she delivered to him good news.
One good deed doesn't reedem or remedy what she has done for Syndrome.
But, Bob was happy to hear it regardless and probably instinctively hugged her.
Mirage did say she was attracted to power during her dinner with Mr. I. Maybe that's why she's doing it and maybe she has some hatred or contempt for supers. She just draws the line at children.
No she doesn’t, she only turned against Syndrome after he allows Mr. Incredible to crush her to death. She realized he didn’t really care about her and it scared her. She didn’t turn against him after he killed children.
There were good snippets and poignant lines in there, but I dont think they ever fully established (or even knew) what her motivations were
@@iamtfredwell that's unfortunate
@@iamtfred Yeah it would of been better if they at least implied she either loved Syndrome for his "power", aka beating strong hero's with his genius. Or even she tried to seduce the various hero's she got killed as well. But at the end of the day we had zero motivation of why she helped Syndrome. Which made her flipping sides in the final arc even less impactful because we barely knew why she was helping a villain in the first place beyond "a paycheck". I mean after watching the video I guess there is a very vague sense she and Syndrome had a relationship, but I honestly never even noticed it watching it as a kid.
I think the difference is this was the first time Mirage saw the effects what she and Syndrome were doing. She was aware Supers were being killed but she didn't witness it so it didn't bother her until that point. But this time she had a front row seat to hear the fear in Helen's voice and see Bob's grief afterwards and it made her realize how wrong what they were doing was. I suppose it's easier to drop a bomb on thousands of people you'll never have to see than to pull the trigger of a gun pointed at someone you have to look into the eyes of.
I think it was more the fact that kids were on board.
Keep in mind Mirage didn't know that Helen and the kids had powers so when Syndrome had 'killed' Bob's wife and kids as far as Mirage knew they had killed a defenseless Woman and her kids
Unless you're an ass
Happy to say "come and take it", gloating
This is clearly seen with something called "The Second Amendment"
agreed, she also wouldn't care that much about Syndrome making weapons cause she was living on a remote possibly uncharted island, once his war on supers arrived at her doorstep she could truly see what her actions have caused.
Assuming Mirage was in a relationship with Syndrome, and is attracted to power as she said, then I think her character arc holds up.
Instead of seeing the beneficial results of the 'plans' Syndrome has been cooking up, she's watching someone panic as their kids are killed, and the anger and grief that comes from that. There's a huge difference between assumed pain and visible pain.
Her pushing Syndrome to the side also makes sense, as she's (assumedly) in a relationship with him. No matter how awful a thing the person you love has done, your feelings don't just vanish, you know? It was a split second decision made out of seemingly instinct, as how else would she react that quickly? I think that rather than criticising her character for saving a bad person, I think it's actually a pretty realistic show of how attached you can be to people who treat you poorly (maybe stockholm 'syndrome', if they wanted to play with that pun a bit more).
She doesn't just 'become a good person', and she's not applauded for it either. Bob just gets emotional finding out his family is alive, and the single person he has on his side right now as far as he knows is right in front of him. Bob is shown to be an emotional and impulsive person, it's very realistic that he'd show his happiness physically here.
Mirage isn't a good person, and the end of her arc doesn't show her becoming one. It just shows her helping someone she now thinks is good, against someone who she seemingly cares for a lot, whether consciously or subconsciously.
While it can be argued that Mirage is a 'plot device', I don't know if that really holds water. Her character is consistent, and (assuming she's both a bad person, attracted to power, and in a relationship with Syndrome at the start of the movie) all of her actions make sense. She's attracted to power, so she dates the most powerful man she finds and helps with plans that will cement them at the top of the totem pole.
She's a bad person (at the beginning of the movie, at least) who only realises something is wrong with her lifestyle and her partner when she:
1. Sees her partner commit an atrocity right in front of her. Not making a robot kill an adult who can defend themselves, but being the person to (as far as she can tell) kill children in front of their father.
2. Sees the pain this causes to Bob right in front of her. Instead of thinking of Syndrome's plans as 'a way to gain power', she now sees the pain that actually causes. Numbers are very different to individual people, and seeing someone feel horrible pain in person is a heavy thing to carry.
3. Her partner bets her life on Mr. Incredible being 'unable to kill her'. This puts her life on the line, and shows Syndrome doesn't care as much about her as she does him, instantly after she saves his life.
I like your video, it made me think about my favourite movie in a way I hadn't before. But I do think it falls apart under scrutiny. Mirage is a fine character, and she adds to the story in meaningful ways with a character arc that is both realistic and weaves well into the themes of the movie.
Personally, I really like how Mirage is utilised in the film, and her arc is fun.
Yes. This is the same logic between pushing a button and knowing it kills people but not seeing it. It is different situation and mindset.
Just remember that human beings are complex machines, and we can react differently to seemingly indistinguishable stimuli based on barely-perceptible differences. Up until the point in the story where she turned, Mirage had been helping Syndrome kill old superheroes. Who knows what sorts of lies Syndrome had been feeding her about them? Maybe she had accepted that what she was doing was wrong, but that the money and power that she was gaining in return was worth the moral cost.
Syndrome's final plan had not yet been enacted, and she hadn't yet seen innocent, dying children on her viewscreens. Perhaps she thought she would ultimately be okay with that, or that she could look away when the time came, but witnessing firsthand the (supposed) visceral deaths of the Parr children evoked a deep emotional response in her. Then Syndrome pushed her over the edge by gambling with her life.
I still agree that she should have faced consequences after the fact (and the story, as told, doesn't preclude that possibility), but it seems to me that there are myriad ways of explaining her reactions to the events unfolding around her.
Imo, this video has a very faulty analysis on a very mature movie. People can be inconsistent and change their minds. This happens irl.
And she was given a perfectly good reason to do so.
And also remember that she was willing to sacrifice her own life or her employer and I guess her boyfriend. He had no regard for her even lying and say he had called mister Incredibles bluff even though he didn't know for sure
We're not machines, the cylons are machines. Have you forgotten what they did to Caprica?
I don't find this to be that compelling of an argument. If they wanted to give her more nuance then they should've put that in the movie. All that we know, based on the movie itself, is that Mirage was willing to hunt down and aide in the killing of superheroes. She has access to the logs room showing the amount of superheroes killed. She has access to the logs showing Syndrome's plan of unleashing the Omnidroid on a city. Unless otherwise stated, Mirage knew and supported Syndrome whole-heartedly. You're just diving into a head canon.
so we can do anything for any reason with no motivation?
Okay, there's a huge difference between the risk of some unknown children maybe being in danger, and knowing that a missile is being directed at multiple children while their father screams for them to stop. One is out of sight out of mind, the other is an in your face atrocity.
She's clearly no hero, but the movie never really treats her as one. She helped the heroes out at the end, and only Mr. Incredible has any reason to think she was a major player in this whole scheme, and from what he saw I think it's reasonable for him to assume she was manipulated or just following orders.
Conclusion, she's not a bad character, she's just not as well done as the others in the movie.
I honestly not entirely sure it's about the kids either. She is "attracted to power" by one line drop in the movie. And well Mr. Incredible has been beating Buddy's Robot for weeks/months by that point. If Syndrome killing hero's before attracted her to his power, maybe her crush switched to Mr Incredible because he proved himself to be the stronger person. So her over all reaction wasn't entirely about the kids, but the fact it hurt Mr. Incredible because they were his kids.
I also have some doubts Syndrome and her were ever in a relationship. Mirage might of liked Syndrome and been attracted to his power, but her reaction to the Hug kind of makes you feel like she was lacking physical affection. Aka Syndrome either never returned her affections, or was a very abusive and selfish lover.
You're operating on the assumption that mirage knew that Syndrome actually killed the heroes and didn't tell her about every lart of his plan. If Mirage was his number 2, its conceivable that he kept secrets from her.
Additionally, Syndrome's plan was to fake a robot invasion in order to make himself a superhero in the eyes of the public, only to later sell his inventions to the public. If thats the pitch he gave Mirage, then by all accounts she was very ignorant to the fact that he was actually killing people and wasn't just scamming them.
Especially if Mirage had loved Syndrome enough to risk herself in order to protect him, and be so shocked as to why he gambled on her life. I always felt like their relationship was a recent product of their aligning views on supers.
I thought I was tripping because even people defending Mirage are forgetting the initial plan was to fake the robot invasion. Like they would do just enough damage to be threats before Syndrome stepped in to "save" everyone. It's been a while since I watched the movie, but I'm very certain that's what happened.
I haven't seen Incredibles 2 and didn't know that was what they did with The Underminer. For me, the cannon Underminer story is the video game Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer. Goated game with a story that actually fits the "War on peace and happiness" theme The Underminer had going on.
We did see a bad guy get away, in the Mr. Huph scene. The mugger runs off and Mr. Incredible says "He got away." That's literally one of the four or so lines about the mugging situation ever spoken. Mr. Huph being complicit "Let's hope we don't cover him!", "Good thing, too!" Were literally the inciting incident for Bob's explosive rage and leaving his job. The apathy of the world in general also shows a positive use case for legal superheroes. _That's_ how to write a bad guy getting away with it.
Was she aware that syndrome was going to unleash the robot onto the city? I’d think syndrome would be the kind of guy not to share that part of the plan in order to keep her loyal to his scheme.
And while she must have known about the death of other supers, those deaths won’t have involved her as directly as the plane explosion did. I think humans are complex enough machines for her change of mind not to be underdeveloped or stupid from a story/character perspective
I also completely believe a sociopath like syndrome could have manipulated Mirage to become illogically complacent with his ideas.
@@BillboMCRight? I could see Syndrom lying to her about the damage he was going to cause. He was going there to be a hero. His whole objective was to save the city and stop the droid. It rampaged because it was uncontrolled
Not necessarily. The plan was to make a big show of the attack and then use it as advertising to buy some of Syndrome’s tech. This plan would have been controlled and kept casualties to a minimum, although it would be unfortunate if any did occur. The plane scene was completely under Syd’s control and was far more tame and had far less stakes than the city, yet he eagerly let the missiles hit it.
The city was part of a morally grey plan that was sold to Mirage while the plane scene was unplanned and showed Syd’s lack of self control.
She had access to and controls the computer showing Syndrome's plan. She was aware.
I like her white hair.
The giantess in Monsters vs Aliens is an objectively better character than Mirage.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr truth, but she's also a main character, unless you just mean her design, then also truth.
I don't think you've got the right read on the hug. Mr incredible was so overcome at hearing his family was alive that he had a spontaneous expression of emotion. Like the photo of the sailor kissing a woman in Times square on VJ day.
If I were to guess why Mirage’s character wasn’t corrected in the writing process of the movie, I’d say that when she said she was attracted to power, she inclusively meant things that made a strong impression. Her moral compass, as unruly as it seems to be, tells her that targeting 3 people to kill, 2 of them being children, makes Syndrome seem weak rather than strong. And in her sacrifice to save him, with him being nonchalant about it, was the last nail in the coffin, cause she doesn’t wanna die
I also felt it was because she might of already lost respect for Syndrome. His power was his tech, and Mr. Incredible had been beating his robot for weeks/months by that point. Syndrome had already been proven to be weaker than Mr. Incredible. So I don't entirely feel it was just because there were kids on the plane, but because they were Mr. Incredible's kids, some one she was starting to like/crush on. Also seen as a weaker man attacking Mr. Incredibles family because he couldn't beat him in a fight.
I wouldn't say Mirage is a bad character, just that she's not intended to be interpreted like the others in the film. True she was willing to risk the lives of people in the city but it's possible she thought it would only be minimal damage. As far as she knew Syndrome had full control of the robot so once it had done some minor damage and scared everyone, the whole thing would stop. Syndrome would fly in, fake battle the robot and then that would be it. That's also probably why she was so shocked when Syndrome was willing to kill the kids on the plane. At that point she may have been responsible for the deaths of hero's but when children got involved it became way too much for her. Honestly there's still more they could have explored in the arc for her character if they wanted in another film. She could ether become a ruthless villain who was always out for herself or her arc could continue into her becoming a good person. I can ether see her growing into a more major role as a side villain along side another main threat or possibly joining as an actual government agent who works to hunt down other people like syndrome.
On the killing children point…maybe she is able to…for lack of a better term…not think about the possibility when it’s done by the robot, but EXPLICITLY killing children while multiple people (one of which she’s in the same room as) are begging her boss not to, crosses a line…she’s still processing it, but there’s a difference between hearing a casualty report on the news, and actively being involved with (as fas as she knows) murdering a man’s family while he’s in the room
6:02 it's not that weird. An entire family was just offed.
Syndrome didn’t care when she was gonna crushed by Mr. Incredible. For all he knows Bob could’ve killed her. I don’t think she has a say in what Syndrome decides.
I like to think that he knows that Bob wouldn't do it
He stares directly into the mans' eyes with his head tilted away
Clearly knowing where the power is
The only reason I'd say her change of heart is not crazy is one thing: direct contact. It's similar to why someone is much more likely to push a button that kills someone in a different room than they are to pull a trigger on someone right in front of them. Before it was just business, she was living a nice life with the guy she likes and who provides everything she wants and needs, with vague notions of people dying far away from her. In that scene however she gets to hear first hand a mother desperately telling them to call off the missiles because she and her children will die, followed by the pain and rage of that woman's husband, whose life she just ruined (it's kind of similar to why it is important to talk to your captor if your kidnapped and tell about yourself and your family: it forces them to humanize you instead of treating you like some faceless nobody they can easily kill, and that might just save your life).
That moment of realizing just what she's been doing is then immediately followed by 2 additional shifts: she sees firsthand that she's just as disposable to the man she's with as everyone else. Meanwhile the man whose life she's ruined and whose family she's just killed (as far as she knows) and who had every single reason to give her a painful, potentially drawn out death on the floor didn't follow through with it. That's a lot of things happening at once, all of which are in direct conflict with her previous notions: she realized what it means for her luxury life to be built upon a mountain of bodies of people with families and dreams, she realized that the one she's infatuated with and works for would kill her without a second thought, and she realized there's people out there who would look you in the eye and spare you despite having all the power and reasons in the world to kill you. Her entire world view just shattered, and in such a moment, it's not that surprising she'd try to anchor herself on and help out the only person who showed her they genuinely care even if they have reason not to: Mr incredible.
I thought Mirage was like some kind of super advanced robot that’s disguised as a woman, I mean she looks and sounds like a futuristic robot with how monotone she is. Also I’d have a feeling if syndrome can freeze people with some electro stuff, make miniature bombs you can fit in the palm of your hands and make giant evil robots I think he could make a robot woman too
man syndrome is freaky asf
It is nice to see someone bring up a complaint about the Incredibles that DOESN'T involve being mad at Mr. Incredible's justified anger towards Incrediboy.
Even as a small child I always thought that Incredboy was the worst side character in the Incredibles.
I've never seen this before- people get mad about that? 😭
Maybe shes not concerned about the city cause she know that Syndrone can save the day and destroy before any damage could be caused
Calculated risks and acceptable losses.
Yeah, no, that's probably exactly what her thought process was. Nobody knew the Omnidrone would learn to turn in its creator and target the remote control.
Yeah she is an inconsistent character
Mirage was my first cartoon crush, and influenced some of the attrtibutes I fnd attractive in other characters
Dawg, she was bad as hell
The most interesting part about Mirage is how she subverts the role she fills: she's a sexy seductress who doesn't actually lure Mr. Incredible into a ficticious romance. Rather, she lures him into danger by using his desperation for excitement in his life and validation from hero work against him.
Yeah, they have that one dinner scene together, but for the most part, Mr. Incredible has zero interest in Mirage, and she doesn't really put the moves on him. She's just a ploy to make Elasta-Girl THINK her husband was having an affair, but that never actually happened.
In the he voice acting in my country, when she says that line, her Voice starts low and uncertain and grows stronger as she speaks, giving the impression that was not a previously held believe, but something she realized as she spoke
6:53, Possibility 1, she hasn’t thought it through, possibility 2, she’s a hypocrite, possibility 3, she was able to rationalize it theoretically but not in practice (like Catwoman in The Dark Knight Rises), possibility 4, the writers did a bad job with her
I did really like her character but she wasn't ment to be the main character. I'd like to know how she ended up living tho. I don't think she's a better person now, she only decided not to help Syndrome anymore. Still I'm glad somebody talks about her too
She sure could've been written better. Like seeing her questioning everything a bit sooner or feeling a bit guilty. Or on the other hand show us she just wants a revenge on Syndrome now. But you can't have both. Or maybe show us she didn't know about the plan and she found out and that's when she turns on a "good" side.
Honestly I would like to see her come back in incredibles 3 because after all of the nonsense that she did i'm curious to see what she's been up to and there was not even a single mention of her in the second flim.
Is it said how long Mirage has been working for Syndrome and what heroes she's helped kill directly? I know the assumption that she helped kill them all, but I'd enjoy some insight on her motives. If she killed heroes, did she have similar values to Screenslaver?
Well unless Syndrome kills and replaces his "Second in command" that often, I highly doubt Mirage just joined up to lure in Mr. Incredible. Not only is she the public face of Syndromes actions, she seemingly had near unlimited access to the base and it's secrets. Was she there for every kill? Perhaps not, but I would bet she had been around for at least most of them.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming While it's possible he killed them, it's also possible many of them had fallen into similar situations where the hero threatened to kill the SIC and succeeded. Or Mirage was always there but never really had much interactions with heroes outside of being the "public face" for Syndrome, and thus never saw his cruelty and thus never knew how expendable she was.
I think she took it at face value that the supers deserved what they got as not only were they flaws but all the issues about them were in some ways valid. Look at how the world did actually no longer have any villains once the supers where gone and only had them again once they came back. Plus Syndromes plan was to just blow up some cars and buildings, make a big mess not going out of their way to kill people. She believed with him in control it would be okay but after she nearly could have died she realized what a crazy person he was.
Also pretty sure she was arrested and made to work for the government as shown in a comic
I rather liked and disliked her character. She had the set up to be an amazing character. Working for a villain for years, seeking out hero's and talking them into coming to the island to be killed. Except it fails a bit in that she seemed to have no motivation for this act other than just having a job. She didn't love Syndrome, she didn't have some deep past abuse at the hands of a hero or anything. She also mostly flips because Syndrome was going to kill kids, which seemingly came out of no where considering what seemed like dozens of people already dead at her hands. People she went out to meet in person to convince them to come. Having to do all that research, she had to know who had a family and what not as she killed them.
Then you have the conclusion, which is basically she just off screens and is never seen again. Not going to jail, not killed just vanished and totally ignored in the sequel mostly because the Voice actress died I believe.
She isn’t a bad character. Mirage was a plot device. She tells the audience information about the villain and she gives the heroes some help. She said she’s attracted to power and by switching sides, it shows that mr incredible and his family has more power than a rich inventor who wants revenge.
7:19 ... you're right. Because it's not supposed to be one
Reminder: Mirage was originally spying on Frozone, not Mr. Incredible. The Omnidroid 9000's fight against Mr. Incredible proved it as such
If mirage turned "good" out of revenge,that could have been interesting
What I'm the most curious about is how would Syndrome have reacted if Bob had actually killed Mirage?
We'll never fully know for certain, but judging by how Syndrome disregarded Mirage's life when Bob threatened to kill her, by saying show me, implying that he'd feel satisfaction if Mirage was crushed to death. We can only assume that he wouldn't have cared or shown any ounce of concern for her casualty and most likely would've just continued with his plan regardless. This is an interesting question for debate though.
@@taylornusteling8692 One of my most contemplated scenes in the movie is when Mirage thereafter rejects Syndrome's advances and tells him "Next time you gamble, bet your OWN life!" and if you pay attention to the scene, Syndrome has an expression on his face that looks as if he genuinely doesn't understand why Mirage is angry with him. I believe that this shows that he doesn't truly understand what it is to value life, because all he knows is his "kill or be killed" mentality on the world.
@@vibes8930 Agreed. 👍🏼😊
I gotta say this is very big stretch to say the least about Mirage character. She was never shown not to have a care for anyone or anything she clearly cared about syndrome also the part with the children on board even someone who works for someone evil or someone evil can have a moral compass its what makes her not a static villian. Can draw a line she knew who mr incredible was she didn't know about his family also the endangering of innocent children plus the part where she risked her life to save syndrome and him showing no compassion whatsoever when mr Incredible could have killed her easily which is why she said bet your own life. This also doesn't mean she turned away from being bad she just had no more obligations in her mind to help syndrom anymore so she freed mr incredible I don't see this as out of pocket. Mirage character is fine just like the whole film.
Mirage from The Incredibles?
Smash
Mirage was a plot device
Yes to lure Mr incredible into the danger zone
@IDesireToBeRich-h2j
By Kenny Loggins.
I forget Mirage even existed.
she's just a mirage
She’s not a bad character however she’s just a plot device
She's just an extremely forgettable character.
Ah come on I like her I wish they had brought her back in the second movie
Not every fictional world is foolproof but I saw enough to believe.
I always had a good rewrite for her that still wouldnt ruin her. Id extend the conversation between her and syndrome when she decides to leave him. She'd yell at Syndrome she only joined out of jealousy for supers because, in another twist, her brother was Gamma Jack. Because of this she was extremely jealous the he always got the attention and admiration growing up and she felt outcasted by her family for being the little sister without superpowers. It was made even worse that Jack had a severe megalomania complex and saw supers as "the superior kind". Eventually that jealousy boiled into hatred for superheroes. But because she has no powers, Mirage took a more sneaky approach and climbed her way to the top of Syndromes company out of sheer spite. When she saw Syndrome was putting superheroes into extinction she was instantly attracted to him for that reason. Also, after Syndrome is defeated, id add a scene of Mirage turning over Syndrome's data and everything involving Project Kronos to Rick followed by her being arrested. She faced punishment for her crimes and turned herself in and exposed Syndrome and gave all the families of the deceased Supers closure
I don't think mirage was really intended to have an arch, but rather be a story telling device and a symbol.
For Mr. Incredible she is literally a mirage. A vague alluring thing that draws you towards the horizon, but ultimately was fake.
For elastigirl, she's the manifestation of her insecurities. She's a seductive woman who has been engaging with Mr. Incredible behind her back.
For syndrome she's just an object and a tool to be used and to own.
She's a mirage. People look at her and see what their subconscious makes them see. Her arc is just that she subverts everyone's perceptions by changing allegiance.
I’ve heard that the line about them freezing Syndrome’s assets was supposed to include Mirage. (I don’t know if it’s true but it’s what I’ve heard.)
I’ve never read it as a redemption arc. I read her arc as a woman standing up to her toxic and abusive boyfriend when she realizes he never has and never will care for her.
I watched that show with my cusions when I was 6 and all the girls loved mirage, which annoyed me to a point I started crying! because I had the exact same complaints about her and I viewed her as a selfish hypocrite too. (I gues I was just a veryyy inteligent 6 yo to undrestand all of that XD)
I see where youre coming from, and your points aren't bad. But yourr foundation is weak. You made assumptions.
Syndrome's whole objective was to unleash a bot that the supers couldn't stop, but he could. No one could outshine him then. He wanted to be the hero and he's already shown to be manipulative.
It wouldn't be farfetched to say, he either 1. Didnt tell her, 2. Lied about what the potential damage would be or 3 expected no casualties because hes actually controlling the bot.
It being unleashed was never part of the plan. So when he was about to kill his family, that shinned a whole new light on who he was, and what he would do for his goal.
I just think she didn't sign up for all that.
mirage going along with syndromes ultimate plan of taking the robot into the city makes sense because up until later in the movie syndromes had full control of the robot and the plan is to freak everyone out and then pretend to save the day, and sticking up for bob and his family. the company she runs with her romantic partner syndrome sells weapons of mass destruction to whoever has the most money, her line "im attracted to power" implies she's with syndrome because in a world where war is the most profitable venture, her partner isnt the guy shooting the gun or ordering where and when to fire but the guy who invented the gun and the guy who decides gets to use his guns. together they live far away from the resulting tragedy of their business because they are in control. its only when she realizes the man who she perceives has all the control is just as bad as the people they sell to but also willing to let her die just to prove a point. she realizes hes someone who will personally kill children to make himself happy. idk its fuckin nuanced
I'm just gonna say it: Bob hugged Mirage so that Helen could enter the room and misread the situation. It was done for the bit.
6:27 Honestly, this works for me because human behavior doesn't always make logical sense. When I saw that scene (the one you were referencing) I always thought "ah she is one of those people", the hypocritical "I'm fine with X when it doesn't happen to me, but when it does..." people. It's kind of like in The Prince of Egypt Moses doesn't "wish to see" anything wrong about the slaves before he Meets Aaron and Miriam at that well and later realizes he is personally involved.
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Honestly i think you did more to justify her as a good character then prove she was a bad one. Still not a great charicter but you explained her importance quite well.
I’d like to say thank you. I’ve had the same thoughts as you. Mirage was always a direct and wiling accomplice to murdering supers in the incredibles, but people NEVER bring it up how Mirge has gotten countless people killed, so her “valuing life is not weakness” line, for as cool as it is, is kinda hypocritical. Still she’s a cool character.
....Yeah? Duh? The point is that she sees the error of their ways. Of course it's 'hypocritical'.
Also there's a difference between. Killing adult Supers who are fully in control of their powers and killing a Mom and her kids that she had no if Helen and the kids had powers or if they were fully in control of them Helen - yes she was fully in control of her powers Violet and Dash - not really
@@kllk12ful , she was complacent in killing superhero 🦸 🦸 children, so suddenly her deciding killing children is wrong is as much as of a flip flop in ideologies as the ideologies presented in the Civil War film/comic.
She is a Homage to two X Women, Storm and Mirage
They should have included her in the sequel where she is doing community service .
What happened to Mirage voice actress?
She passed away
@@crislunaverellen6563 How did she die?
@@heitorpontesferreira3781 natural causes
Elizabeth Pena: Cirrhosis of the liver.
Bud Luckey: Stroke
not to mention (though not heavily implied) we can make the very reasonable assumption that at least some if not most of those supers killed had families (great catch with her turn benefiting her
I feel like her ideal change regarding harming people, she might’ve not been very involved with syndromes previous killings, so hearing Helen on the radio and the genuine distress could’ve shocked her into changing so suddenly. Of course that doesn’t excuse her previous actions nor does it magically maker her character writing perfect, I do think the hug was weird and she definitely should’ve been “punished” more
She’s a distraction to Mr. Incredible, that’s all she is.
When Bob and Helen meet up again before the climax, we’ve all seen the scene. Bob fell in love with her, but the moment he finds out his family survived the explosion he immediately goes back to Helen. Personally it makes me cringe, it’s played off as comedy, but I just can’t take it as a joke, considering the context being Bob immediately moving on.
@@ssesssusman9417 uh you do realize that the reason why Bob was hugging Mirage in the first place was due to her telling him that Helen and the kids were alive he was so overwhelmed with relief that his family was alive after spending atleast 12 hours thinking his family was dead of course the first thing Bob does after being told that his family is okay is to hug the person who told him that
In my opinion, her character is pretty good, but needed more info for her to become as great as the other characters.
It’s implicitly implied that they’re in a relationship: seeing how narcissistic Syndrome is, I wished they made a few scenes where they showed how sweet and gentle (in a manipulative way) he is towards Mirage, to make her realisation more impactful.
For her to understand how evil he really is in that moment, it would’ve meant that, before he showed he didn’t care about children dying and then Syndrome daring Mr. Incredible to kill her, she perceived him as a guy who was wronged and just wanted to prove himself.
Imagine the amount of lies she’s been told…
If they did this with her character, it would’ve been memorable not only because it would’ve added substance to a pretty bland character, but it would’ve also represented a similar situation that unfortunately a lot of women go through in real life.
You lost me when you said you liked TLJ
@Stuart Barron, No Princess Bride references this time?
I will say Colinlookback is going to have a field day with her
The most I remember her for is getting choked out and punched by Mr. and Mrs. Incredible. I didn’t even remember her name until seeing this video. 💀
I like Mirage, she is a very beautiful woman, one of my favourite characters and i'm so happy that she reformed at the end. I want to see her return so in the upcoming incredibles 3 so much, she's having a better life and becomes a good and close friend of the superhero family. Hopefully someone else can replace her late voice actress
What if Mirage was a super too? Her power could be invisibility, which would explain how she just pops up. But I personally think it would be even crazier if her power was memory alteration or something similar. THAT would 100% explain away why she just appears and why nobody questions anything about her. Woulda been nice if that was elaborated on in the second movie
your channel is so underrated dude! keep it up! :D
I think she is bit ambiguous. Not a bad by character by any means just flawed.
I always did think she was the weakest character in the movie, mostly cuz she kinda is just gone and she’s ok with genocide but not murdering kids and it was really syndrome not caring if she died or not that changed her mind. It was less of a personal moral thing and more of a selfish form of self preservation and almost revenge in a small way. Her redemption is a bit lacking and her line about the whole disregarding life can still apply to her. Then again, people who are ok with genocide and murder of others different usually aren’t very self aware. And a possible one sided relationship can really screw with people
I feel this way about Eren in AOT. The ending ends with the characters almost ignoring the rumbling because Eren apparently didn't want to genocide the earth only 80% of it. Like Mr. Incredible hugging Mirage, feels like Mikasa kissing Eren after cutting off his head after he had completed his genocide plan. (Gross by the way.) With Mirage it's negligible because she's only a small part of the movie but with Eren, he's the main character which makes it much worse.
As for Bob hugging Mirage he was simply overwhelmed with relief that Helen and the kids were alive after spending a whole night believing his family was dead he was so grateful that Mirage had told the news that his family was okay that he hugged her
@@kllk12ful Understandable. But he still saw for himself the kinds of things she was involved with. Also the scene could have easily continued with Mr. Incredible not believing her because she did almost nothing to earn his trust. She freed him but never even apologized for the presumed death of his family. And then Helen could show up and convince him that it was true. Then they could hug as husband and wife.
One song can change everything
ehhh I'd say the teacher wasn't really a good character (not because of him nessacarily there was just no follow up) he deserved better
Mirage was my realization that I’m a lesbian
Mirage should've been Naked the whole movie
WTF?
Would like this movie more if Mirage was Naked
As someone who has a crush on her the answer is No.
Don't get me wrong, Mirage does look beautiful but that's only on the outside. The rest of the video, I agree with everything you said about her since her redemption arc had me confused and raising an eyebrow.
No u
Dislike for the last Jedi but good video nonetheless
finally someone does a video on her
Dont be sorry, even masterpieces can have flaws
But I love her sm
Could have used more screen time
...who?
Mirage is the literal definition of a MacGuffin which doesn't make her a bad character but it does limit what she can do.
The reason Mr Incredible hugs her instead of punishing her is that she's hot.
Sadly, hot people get away with a lot of crap.
Also, I definitely think she disappeared as soon as she sensed Syndrome was going down. Changed her name (Mirage probably wasn't her actual name) and poof.
I thought Bob hugging Mirage was due to overwhelming relief that Helen and the kids were alive keep in mind Bob spent had entire night thinking his wife and kids were dead so Bob hugging Mirage was understandable
Are you forgetting that he was boutta choke her to death literally seconds before hugging her 💀
TV Tropes has a name for this: High-Heel-Face Turn (pun on pro wrestling's heel/face terminology). Essentially, female villains, especially attractive ones, are more likely to turn to the good side. It's mostly rooted in sexism (e.g., women are weaker, ruled more by their emotions, etc.), and though I wouldn't call The Incredibles an especially sexist movie overall, it's not particularly anti-sexist, either. One might point to Elastigirl (and to a lesser extent, Violet) being shown as extremely capable places it more on the positive end of that scale, but then again most of her role in the film is either super-mom or suspicious wife, so it's not breaking *much* ground there. I guess my point is more that the sexism in The Incredibles is more a typical representation of our cultural expectations (and cultural sexism) than this film being an outlier in either direction. (insert disclaimer that you can enjoy a film while acknowledging its flaws, I think overall The Incredibles is a very good movie, and Helen's a great character)
7:35 I honestly don't think it's weird. It's not about her - if his old boss had come in to deliver the same news, he probably would have done the same thing. As the bearer of the good news, psychologically she becomes a stand-in for the news itself, and *that's* what he's hugging.