ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- It sounds so simple, so stupid -- and yet I think I've unearthed the single most important skill that good Super Smash Bros players have that most players don't. While I've never heard them explicitly talk about it, I'm positive that Mango, Zain, Hungrybox, Leffen, Armada -- all of them are doing this constantly. Do YOU have this skill already? Do you agree with my conclusion!?
WATCH ME LIVE ► / tophbbq
follow me on twitter ► / toph_bbq
follow me on instagram ► / toph_bbq
edited by seanathan / seanathan1 ► / seanathan__1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow Golden Guardians:
www.goldenguar...
/ goldenguardians
Subscribe to GG Melee for fresh Golden Guardians TH-cam content featuring Toph, Zain, PPMD and n0ne 3 times a week! / @ggmelee
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BGM USED - Mewmore // Azalea Town (Pokémon Gold & Silver Remix)
- • Mewmore // Azalea Town...
Toph aka tophbbq is back again with another TOPH TALK about The SINGLE Most Important Skill in Smash Bros. Toph had an epiphany while playing on Slippi Unranked... Why do unranked Falcos and Falcons never look at their opponent in Super Smash Bros. Melee? And why do Smash Pros not talk about this more? This is how to improve in Smash Bros and how to be GOOD at Super Smash Bros that every Smash Pro does every time they play a match. Enjoy and remember to subscribe if you read this far!
Outro: • Okami - The Tribe Of H...
#SmashBros #Melee #Improvement #tophbbq
looking at yourself in melee is like looking at the ball while dribbling
or like ignoring the mini map in league
And you have to be really tall for dribbling not to matter
Shiiii we’re all not Kyrie Irving with the handles my dude
i like the way i move and i like to see myself shmoove tho
me who likes to stare at the ping counter: shit.
Scar got 5th at genesis just by looking at himself
The problem is that the average player isn't 100% confident in their tech skill and therefore require visual confirmation.I would imagine that most players develop the bad habit of watching their own movement as beginners and have trouble breaking it as they improve.
Exactly. I've always KNOWN I should look at my opponent, my tech is just too inconsistent that when I do, I don't end up where I expect to be. Recently been playing more Mario Kart though and have learned to watch the mini map because I can actually trust my inputs to be what I want, and the difference is def huge. Watching the opponent in any game is always good but melee might be one of the hardest ones to pull it off (least if you play a tech intensive character).
that was me. i only liked moonwalking and doing insane platform wavelands with falcon and just watched myself lol still do
As someone who plays a lot then takes long breaks , the key to looking at your opponent is that you have to be insanely confident in your movement. Usually takes me 3 weeks of grinding once I come back before I even start splitting my attention.
Toph utilizing prime engagement strats by burying the lead until about halfway through lol
I am a Slippi frog and I am looking at myself 90% of the time, straight up never thought about it lol. Nice vid toph
We need to start calling slippi kids to frogs
Don't listen to him guys, he just wants you to shield so he can grab you. 👀
looking at yourself in melee is like looking at the piano keys while sight-reading
One way to learn this: It can be helpful to set CPUs in training mode to run away. Helps you practice movement against a moving opponent without them hitting you.
honestly you say it sounds simple but I think it reaches way farther than melee. My piano teacher yelled at me for looking at the keys a long time ago. And I think having the mastery in any technical, practice-oriented field is really necessary to feel comfortable not looking at yourself and focusing on other stuff, be that other auditory cues like in the music case or other visual cues like in melee. I've gotten into speedcubing and a parallel is not staring at whatever move you're currently doing. Having the muscle memory down to execute while looking ahead to other parts of the cube sounds pretty much like the same thing.
Your piano teacher's a bitch for yelling at you
I’m so glad you brought this up. I had just started playing melee and didn’t even realize I was doing this thank you.
I have seen this concept mentioned before, but I'm not entirely sure where. I never really noticed how little the idea of where you look is brought up, and I honestly forgot entirely that it was better to focus on my opponent when I'm playing than looking at my character
It's a pretty common thing in any competitive game. A big part of being good at anything is to be confident in yourself. And when you're confident you can do what you need to, why do you need to watch yourself do it? Maybe you've heard it from another game?
@@feris3410 Not really confidence, but it's a thing that you don't really notice that you're doing. And also no, I've been hard Smash only until recently, so I wouldn't have heard it from anywhere other than Smash
This is a sentiment that doesn't get touted enough for sure. Like you said, the top players and most really good players just have been doing exactly this for so long that it doesn't even cross their minds that people gravitate to watching themselves on the screen.
Why would I want to look at my opponent when what I'm doing is cool
6:25 I cant be the only one that thought the video was ending when I heard Kass them starting to play lol. Its such an outro theme for some reason, feels kind of out of place in the middle of the video without any kind of transition.
I always thought it's like one of those songs that motivates you or something but I guess I get why
Love this reminder, amazing tip
Especially as a slippi frogling
dude i really like how you wrapped it back up at the end with the shiek needles. this is some of the most important advice to take in. its an easy mistake to make too. melee requires so much learning in the execution especially when hitlag frames/getting can cause a technique you do to misinput. being smart about the engagement can prevent this, and is very important. very well structured and pointed video; thank you toph
You play long enough you stop having to look at your character, because you become more confident in your movement
This is something I heard I should do like one time in Ultimate, and when I remember to actually do so, the game feels pretty different, but it makes a HUGE difference
does anyone know where the amsa eye tracker stream is??
This is why I’m grateful to Tafokints since I got into Melee late 2014. Tafo had TONS of insight like this. Also, something I personally think makes it not intuitive to look at your opponent in Melee is how the camera moves so much. I think it’s an unpopular opinion, but I think the camera does a lot in terms of digesting Melee. It makes things look more complicated.
The funniest thing about learning melee as somebody from ultimate is that this is something that I somehow forgot to carry over until very recently and kept getting confused as to why I had trouble understanding situations, whereas now, I feel like I'm getting part of my situational awareness back and being able to track habits.
I didn't do this for almost 5 years and when I started doing it my neutral and punish games both improved so much, I can't believe no one mentioned it before. (I found out watching PPMD use an eye tracker)
I stumbled across this like a month ago, after having played smash games for the last decade just looking at myself
Just tried looking at the opponent on a whim and it was like dodging bullets in the matrix
And also to look at the space between you and the opponent as a situation is changing since this can change your decision making in the next moment.
It would be cool to get a bunch of top players to play with those eye tracker things that displays exactly where you're looking on the screen. Sure you "look at the opponent", but I'm wondering how much of that is peripheral vision. Maybe you think you're looking at the opponent, but you're actually looking at a point in the middle of both players, but focusing on the opponent.
Wow, Toph talked about that right after I commented lol. I guess that's what I get for commenting in the middle of the video. Would still be cool to see how different top players look at the screen with that experiment though.
ZeRo played ultimate with an eye tracker while back. IDK if you want to give him your ad revenue though
This is my experience in every reaction based game. I eventually shift from watching only me to a mix of me and my opponent and then mostly them
This is actually the best advice ive gotten in a while, ive been plateauing for a while and this immediately made me feel like i unlocked a new avenue of improvement
"Hey, it's not the guy's fault, the radio melee staff let him ask the question" 5:58
I don't think twitch chat has ever made me laugh so hard ROFL
This was one of the first, what I felt was big, revelations my mentor laid upon me many years ago. Alien from Oregon is who that is.
Great video. Before clicking I actually assumed this WASN'T going to be the topic. I was ready to throw shade in the comments. But you did good. Great title. Decent pacing. Great info. 👍
this concept is big in music too. Playing without looking at your hands or instrument is a good indicator of your skill level or at least your confidence in muscle memory and ability to focus on what's ahead instead of the exact moments you're playing
I think the best comparison is when you look at yourself when running a race, as that comparison makes it the most clear how redundant it is to look at yourself and how much more important it is to pay attention to others
I think it's a little more than just looking at your opponent, you gotta see right through them. Imagine what their insides look like.
I don't know how I never noticed this before.
Before this video I was beating most of the unranked players I ran into but getting three stocked by the actual good players. I tried your advice and pretty quickly I was getting three stocked by the unranked players too.
But I stuck with it and ground my mechanics: for the last month I've been forcing myself to only look at the opponent unless I'm trying to time a tech and now I'm able to play pretty competitive matches with a cpu lvl 3.
im always looking at the other character.... think it's my character... and then SD
For the same reason pro don't talk about looking at your opponents and not yourself is the same reason i won't watch this video for more time than me writing this. It's obvious, you think about this if you ever want to be good at all. Really like your channel sir Toph. Much love
I learned this playing LoL but i cant do it in melee yet. Maybe one day
Same but for me it's ultimate, weirdly enough
@@sibosb9138 yea i think it just happens by putting in time and thinking about it after you have some muscle memory
@@soulforged7157 i force myself to not look at myself when i play
One toph tip has been look at yourself. The other tip has been look at the opponents
Strongly agree that newer players should learn to focus on watching what their opponents are doing more than watching themselves; however, I’d still say it’s very important to at least occasionally watch yourself during practice/vod analysis. Been playing since childhood and it took kazuya coming out in ultimate for me to notice that it’s way harder for me to hold straight down after holding straight left than right -> down.
2:45 SimpleFlips in chat moment
This plays into the two most important aspects of melee that I feel newer players/players who plateau neglect or just are ignorant of. One: staying present, not judging interactions and staying in the moment, this I feel is the most important part of melee that if you’re not doing you are not operating at even close to full potential. This plays into the second part which is reacting. When you focus hard on reacting to your opponent whether it’s in neutral, combo game, or in defense, it allows you to make optimal choices without having to predict the future every time. Reacting takes away a lot of the ambiguity of neutral and you start playing in positions that are more optimal naturally. Additionally it takes the load away from having to read everything and let’s you focus more on the macro game then if every neutral interaction, every roll coverage has to be a hard read. Just my 2 cents lmao
This is somthing I still have to work at. If im just kinda playing and chilling I end up watching myself again lol.
I'm so glad you're actually talking about this. As a relatively bad player, I know that this is important, but I usually don't because of my tech skill. Plus, it took me like 8 years of playing the game to figure it out haha.
I used to have this problem when i was trying to get good at smite(MOBA). Immediately once i started watching my opponent i probably doubled my skill in just 2 months from that point and hit masters because it just gives you so much information
I guess coming from league it's just already ingrained to look at both characters. Usually focusing on the opponent with attention to your character in peripheral vision. Watching to see if the opponent is going to approach or use a projectile isn't completely unlike watching to see if your lane opponent is going to go for a trade.
Anyone have the amsa stream that he mentioned?
I played for years looking primarily myself and I was so bad. I could do all the technical stuff but could never beat the person. I started playing after a 5 year break, I look at them and I win so many more games now. It’s insane how simple it is
I remember always trying to explain this to my brothers when playing 3D platformers like Mario Galaxy. They always had so much trouble seeing like hidden routes, long distance star-bits, or even enemies approaching. I would tell them "Don't look at Mario, look at the screen." (You should know where Mario is. You're controlling him. It's not like you stare at your feet as you take steps.) And they like literally didn't get what I meant. Nothing against them. I was the only one who played games in the house.
I noticed this translates over to Smash as well. Most people call it looking at your opponent, but usually they are doing this too where they see the whole screen. It's how people coordinate Randall, the time remaining, projectiles and such. Your main focus is your opponent, for sure. But you're not necessarily zoomed into them. You are open to some peripherals as well.
Thanks toph you have literally helped me soooo much at getting good
Fuck Heart, Mind, and body. It's Instinct vs Labbing
As a new player (5-6months) I didn’t even realize I was mostly looking at myself until a few weeks ago I especially noticed when I shl with falco I would always look at myself for timing and not even pay attention to if the lasers were hitting or not needless to say I stopped this and am currently grinding muscle memory.
I noticed that I do this a lot in street fighter. Even at a distance, I often get sniped by projectiles because I get tunnel vision'd into staring at my character, and it's hard for me to adapt to my opponent.
I definitely tried looking at my opponent, then was uncomfortable and started making tech skill errors, so I stopped. Thank you toph for the excellent advice to stick with it
This is why practicing your movement is so important!
I know I’m a year late but I implemented this into my gameplay when I saw it and it has really helped! I was a Falco main but I wanted to take this as serious as possible so I decided to pick up Ganondorf to help me relearn the game using this mentality
usually when i get hit by projectiles its because i was trying to powershield and was a little late. its never really a mystery what a shiek or falco is going to do, powershielding is just hard for me and i don't like sitting in shield.
Also another concept, keep your eyes on the ball
A lot of new players hold down and Arnt reacting. They have memorized a punished or a combo setup or, oh when they hit me I hold down and down smash.
Rather than reacting to what your opponent is doing they're playing their own game and hoping that you walk into it
Honestly, I feel like this is gonna help me a lot. I constantly watch myself, I'm not comfortable with all of my movements. I'm going to try this
Yeah this is definitely a thing. I remember when I first heard about it, and it's such a big deal. Though I'm still struggling not to look at my character.
This is true for all fighting games too, not just melee
good video!! this has been a big focus of my practice since im new and mainly grinding fundamentals, in ultimate i would never look but now that im playing melee with much more fleshed out and precise movement it definitely is easier at first to watch yourself when youre getting the timings, but yea makes your reactions shit
honestly I never knew about this until now, great vid toph
Great tips! I’ll be looking at my opponent
playing other games that I'm more familiar with like ultimate I usually look at the opponent and how they're moving but when I play melee I look at myself because I'm not fully confident in my movement
edit: also playing falco and sheik dont help with this cause wavedash timing differences
Some people look at themselvs, some look at the oponent.
I look at the Controller to hit the rigth buttons
I'm more of a caster than a player, and I realized I was making this mistake when I sat down and thought, "Why can I talk about the game at a higher level than I play it at?"
... It was because I never looked at my opponent. I only had half the story in any match I played, which didn't exactly work out in my favor.
this is the motivation i needed to change my bad habit of looking at myself
Great video Toph I shared it with a friend who's been asking for Smash advice! Watching the new 2Saint GG podcast now. :)
Great video!! you should always be practicing how you are going to play especially if you compete.
from someone who played both melee and ultimate, this is true for both games
Love these kind of vids
Great video!
You haven't watched it yet
I look at my opponent but I mostly look at the area where I want to intercept him.
I think another thing that's helped is learning how to do tech while watching you opponent
i have never heard of someone looking at their own character while playing that's so absurd to me
If anyone knows age of empires, looking at urself is like TC idle time.
there was an alpharad video i saw years ago that had this exact advice
this is camera lock in mobas
thank you for this reminder, this is by FAR the hardest thing for me to do
Are there any clips of that Amsa eye tracker
the simpleflips cameo?!?!>?!??!?
How feasible is this with zoners?
As a new-ish player I try to look at my opponent, but I also find myself looking back at myself from time to time. That's when I'm playing thoughtlessly tbh, and I do find I'm worse when I'm doing that.
tbh you need to play thoughtlessly in melee, there isn't really enough time to consciously think. you need to rely on your habits, and the difference between a good and bad player is how good their habits are
i will never get hit by sheik needles again
I would love to see you play (or another pro player) with an eye tracker device!
Holy shit I've never thought of this
You should have 100k subs seriously
Mind blown. No wonder I suck (well maybe one of many reasons)
toph with the CUT i like it
i woke up after a long sleep and immediately went to unranked to get 4stocked in the shiek pika mu and i couldn't be mad because i didn't warm up but my opponent doesn't know that. lol warm up or get burned
Nairo also talked about this
Great video
Every time I realize I'm watching myself too much and change that, I play better 100% of the time.
i tunnel vision on my character lmao
Can soneone send me the amsah or (not sure which) asma eye tracker video?
Ya this is super true I remember watching a [Redacted] video were he was using a eye visualizer and the first thing I noticed was that he was look at the opponent rather then his character most of the time. I had kind of done this before but it was more of the extent that I was watching my own character and then glancing at the opponent, but once you start looking a the opponent and practicing that way it pretty much be comes second nature.
This is factual. The only person that talked about this is ZeRedacted0 and he was the best for a long time
howed you get in leffens house?
I think some people do this in ultimate and it’s really bad lmao