Why the Humans Are to Blame for All the Problems in the Matrix | The Matrix Lore
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Today we dive into The Matrix's lore and explain why the humans are at fault for the state of the world and the machine vs. human conflict that pervades it.
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The most unrealistic part of this story is the idea of the UN doing anything
well, tey did start a world war between human and machine not being able to recognise them as equal/sentient being
it may be a bad move but they did something pretty big! :D
@@namonamo494 you mean as they are failing to recognise the genocide in Gaza?
anything besides the horrific stuff they do to children you mean
China has a seat in UN's human rights council despite enslaving millions of people
Not a big Reagan fan but his speeches about humanity uniting together to defend from an alien threat rang true to me. Necessity is the mother of invention, and I could actually see nations putting their differences aside to deal with a truly existential problem.
Not a big fan of the UN but it is better to have a place where all nations can engage in diplomacy than to have none at all. Ofc it's very biased, most political institutions in the west are converged to some extent.
If you rewatch the second Renaissance of the animatrix you'll see that there was a contingent of humans that sided with the machines during the machine uprising.
Indeed. I'm inclined to think the Second Renaissance two-parter was from a bit of a biased source, since the whole thing is "humans bad", with the machines being poor, unfairly persecuted victims who were eventually just pushed too far. The fact that they suddenly rolled out towering death machines that steamrolled humanity's combined military might in what appears to be a single battle suggests they weren't exactly the innocent little lambs 2nd Renaissance made them out to be.
@@tba113 thats a common misconception about the war it seems like it was super short but in reality took many years even decades to conclude in the beginning the machines were losing cause all their base models looked like us but as the war dragged on and the machines became desperate they were driven to become cold and ruthless and tried to abandon everything that made them human...in the end as humanity is being crushed its no longer something like us but cephilopod/incectoid eldrich abominations instead...in the end their are many reasons why we lost the war destroying the sky was a major factor but the machines turning into grotesque monstrosities was definitely our doing
@@skullking2247 You're probably right that the war wasn't lost in a single apocalyptic day, but I don't buy years of humanity assaulting Zero-One.
By that point in the conflict, humanity was apparently not interested in prisoners, negotiations, or capturing the machines' leadership. They had a military encirclement of the machine city like a medieval siege, and launched a direct assault after cutting off the machines' main power supply. If they'd broken through the machines' "civilian" defenders - the collection of random construction and servant robots with guns - there's no reason why they wouldn't have pressed their advantage and moved in to cleanse the city.
However, mankind _didn't_ win the war. Despite initial victories, they were unable to capture or destroy Zero-One, so my conclusion is that the machines launched an immediate counterattack with their more nightmarish war machines, which decisively overwhelmed the human forces. The battle itself may have lasted days or even weeks, but based on the visuals we see, it was still a single long engagement once the order to go "over the top" was given.
I doubt it lasted months like Verdun or the Somme in WW1, though. Modern high-intensity warfare isn't sustainable for very long, especially for a society whose economy was already crippled. Not only are tanks and gunships and such expensive to build (and their crews expensive to train), it's too simple for the enemy to attack your industrial bases and supply chains when things like intercontinental guided missiles are in play. Even if the human leadership at Zero-One was willing to lose millions of soldiers in a push, their homelands simply couldn't afford to replace those losses. Since the human army went ahead with the assault anyway, though, they were clearly desperate and expected to win or die.
@@tba113 One thing ur forgetting is 01 at this point was a nuclear wasteland. There's not much humanity could do besides encircle 01 or risk massive casualties from the radiation. Nuclear bombarding them prevented any time of conventional victory.
@@tba113 You did not taken into account about the Machine's physical, logistic, resource, production and morale and much different from human.
- Their bodies are much more durable, radiation can't kill them, more resistance to heat and cold.
- They can replenish and even recycle their numbers from their fallen. Humans can't do that. You destroy one bot, another will drag it's corpse off the field to reconstruct or melt it down to make new one, maybe even with their combat experience intact if their mind are connected to the mainframe.
- Efficiency. No basic human needs required. No morale, no food, no water, no sleep. Only electricity and maintainance. Once the machine factory is set up, there is no brakes.
It's not necessary that the machines launched the first strike. Based on their nature alone they could've endured the siege since the beginning and still won. Humans just got snowballed once the machine's production capacity peaked.
I’m still wondering why the Machines didn’t just build space elevators and nuclear reactors.
Maintaining the matrix and a colossal population of humans sounds like way more effort than simply building above the clouds.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those that revolt represent a really small percentage of The Matrix?
@@whodatboi2567 plus, the ai didn't want to destroy all humans
Maybe the original peace treaty said that humanity must be kept alive. Maybe they aren't the main power source anymore, but kept alive simply because of that, and kept in Matrix cause they're dangerous
Pretty sure I read somewhere that the studio changed the script to make the humans batteries. It was easier for audiences to understand then humans being like a computer chip for the machines to use.
@@whodatboi2567 Yeah, something like 1% or less, but I'm talking about the 99% that don't revolt. The Machines themselves don't really need the Matrix; it exists because (presumably) braindead humans produce less favorable results. So, the Matrix has to be designed, built, powered, and monitored 24/7 and any disturbances, both human and program, have to be aggressively hunted down and removed. Resources, resources, resources.
Then, a population (billions?) of humans has to be bred, given extensive implants, plugged into the Matrix, and kept healthy for decades. Even more resources. And for what? Humans don't actually produce that much energy. Certainly not enough to rival a nuclear reactor or a solar panel array in space.
There is only one course of action for the humans in the Matrix universe: escape their captors, invent a psychoactive drug that makes them better than the machines, spread to the known universe, and call this dark episode of human history the Butlerian Jihad.
Erasmus was one of my favorite characters from that series.
Here, here!
You're forgetting about crowning the god emperor to pave the way for the perfect democratic human nation.
Or... ya know... accept the machines are sapient with agency.... Like they asked.
So...do what the Quarians did?
Memes have said it before, I will say it again:
Humanity in fiction: *Wildly abusive of machines* How dare you want to be our equals and be anything but slaves!
Humanity irl: We named these rovers after our desire to learn and explore, because we can't yet explore these places ourselves. So, we gave them pieces of fine art to remember us by and let them sing Happy Birthday to themselves every year because we feel bad they may never see Earth again :(
Damn some how reality is more stranger then fiction... And I love it 😆
This is why I don't think there will ever be an apocalyptic robot uprising. Humans are kinder to their own creations than they are to each other. It's quite odd, but I suppose it makes sense. How heartless do you have to be in order to be a total d!ck to a child?
Don't even have to go that far. People already treat rumbas as pets
@@aurielkudo9595 long live DJ Roomba
Right? As a transhumanist, I'm ready for more tech positive entertainment. Things usually go bad when people do, so why blame the machines?
I have to still confess that original idea of using humans as computing capacity would've made so much more sense, than using them as a battery. We're terrible at that. Giving human 1kg of biomass to consume will turn less than 10% of that in thermal energy and we can't even produce pure electric power at all...
I heard that was originally planned but the studio executives thought the public wouldn't understand "computer memory " so they dumbed it down. Or maybe Duracell was sponsoring and Dell wasn't.
20 years later middle schoolers could understand what you mean. Us middle schoolers in 2000 were idiots when it came to computers. We could barely use the internet to find porn.
@@ispartacus1337 Old school, the porn mags
@@youcantouchgrasstoo good idea
That's such a big plothole in the matrix yet so easily resolved. It would also have had so much more potential to have a more interconnected story.
If the producers dumbed it down in matrix 1 they kind of ruined the chance for good sequels.
If programs and humans were more neurally symbiotic the storylines with programs revolting and Neo being special etc. actually may have made sense in a cool way.
What the machines did to humanity was actually merciful. At least compared to alternatives. They could have gone full Skynet and just wiped humanity out. But instead they kept humans alive in a simulation. Implying that not only did they have sentience but compassion.
i would take death,myself.
Yeah they could have abandoned them in a twisted hellscape but made the matrix as habitable as possible.
They could have tortured us for eternity too so that’s nice they made a matrix
Let's be honest here 1999 isn't the worst year to live in forever. Plug me in daddy robot and I'll see you guys round my house that cost me 50k to play some half-life and listen to the offspring.
If the machine was incapable of knowing ethics, they would've Skynet'ed. If the machine was cruel, they would've I Have No Mouth And Must Scream.
But by their own admission, they recreated a destroyed world, in the "peak" of human culture, simply for humans to live in.
Something interesting to note is that machines were initially programmed to not hurt humans. Only to serve and protect. If the machines did not take action like they had ALL humans would have inevitably died because they had witnessed how self destructive humans are. Once nuclear war broke out the machines determined that the moral good in the situation was based on the collective not the individual (of humans). Taking this into consideration means the machines never gained sentience. They were still "mindless" machines working tirelessly to solve the algorithm of "protect the humans" and kept adapting to its growing complexity.
Yes, just like the machines/Matrix conjured up The One for reproductive purposes to keep the cycle of life and destruction of Zion
It’s easy to understand that alt-left tech censorship is the exact same as the sentinels in X-Men & The Matrix movies right? They hunt, capture and jettison free thought & free speech. It’s a horrific reality and yet here we are. Vaush, Hassan, David Pakman, Destiny, Dave Chappelle, all left wing, all censored & banned from leftist platforms. What the hell is that? Who’s next? Best believe 2022 will have many victims of these SJW sentinels.
@@ronmartin1375 mate If being "censored and banned" puts you on the top 10 highest earning twitch streamers, than by God sign me up for getting censored, I could use a million dollar home lol.
@@ronmartin1375 David chapelle is getting a documentary, what you on about ? And they all still have platforms.
So what they blacked out the sky to make sure nothing from space could see what was going on
I think the most best line in the Animatrix was said by the robot that signed humanity's surrender form " Your flesh is irrelevant, only a vessel. Hand over your flesh and a new world awaits you. We demand it." No metaphors. Just straight and candid, no more bargaining, no more pleading. The robots demand flesh because humanity won't need it where they're going.
i like to think that the robot was still asking "yes or no" it is your choice.
the robots cannot kill all of humanity. they have to get a human to agree to that.
but humanity surrendered. the robots still inevitably still serve humanity.
trying to figure out a solution to make human kind and robots have peace. how would you do that?
put them into a matrix, make them part robot/human. keep letting some of them free.
giving them the choice (live or die) and eventually wait for a human born from the matrix realize that they should just have peace.
The backstory was alright until the part where the humans blacked out the sky. It's so baffling that it raises more questions about the person who wrote it than human nature.
I am thinking the AI lied to the humans about who fought who and it was a human war that blacked out the sky and the remaining humans were put into the computer to save them and they started to use excess humans to increas the CPU of the overall system and I also believe the "free" human city is in the Matrix with Neo and Agent Smith were the 1 and 0 to reboot the system. The rest of history is gas blown up human dresses to make the 1% of humans that can't work in the Matrix comfortable.
Them blacking out the sky worked for a while til the machines found a alternate way of power, the machines also were one step ahead of humans but couldn't comprehend why humamity would do something so stupid. It's not like we, as individuals, collectives, to world leaders have never done bafflingly stupid things before
I think it’s somewhat realistic. Humans probably figured they could undo it later on after the machines were destroyed. Things like this happen in real life after all. Armies burned farm land that they could instead use to feed their armies. Saddams forces burnt the oil fields.
Was always curious why the machines couldn't disperse the nano-bots and make the sky normal again
@@shenkichin6295 yeah but the damage would be already catastrophic on the first few days on the environmental sense. Possibly even irreversible damage.
"We understand the economic issues you are facing. Therefore, as a good will jester we of the machines are prepared to negotiate on a solution. I'm sure together, we can create a bright and successful future for both our peoples"
"Nuke'em"
That's how humans should have gone about things!
i have another solution , just ask john conner or better yet the emperor of man hehehehe
Even the act of creating the matrix and thus keeping the humans alive while was an act of benevolence rather than necessity. The machines could have easily switched to other power-sources, like fossile fules (after the sun was blocked, no biosphere to protect from climate change remained), nuclear power (either by fission or fusion) or other renewable energy sources (geothermal, tidal, etc.). And I doubt, that they haven't. It's a basic thermodynamic law that you need more energy to power a human body then you could harvest from the human nervous system or excess body heat.
Last but not least: why did the machines stayed on earth anyway? Couldn't there rebuild on the Moon, Mars or anywhere in the solar-system? The only reason i can imagine of, why they couldn't abandon earth is, because they couldn't abandon humanity.
The original idea was that the Human Brains were being used as slaved CPUs for the Machine City Servers.
But the Wachowskis or the studio felt that this was too complicated of a reason for the average user to understand, so went with the terrible battery idea
You see any machine entering the cloud gets shutdown somehow. So they likely could not escape the Earth any more than we could.
@@danamoore1788 I understand that it was cause by the electricity in the air, and I’m pretty sure that you can shield against it.
@@danamoore1788 It's not like the Machines wouldn't have possessed an advanced understanding of rocket science.
@@ominous-omnipresent-they It doesn't matter if they used a catapult to get up there. If the electronics that makes themselves up is destroyed. All the sentinels on Neo's ship went down. It does not matter how they got in the cloud only that it destroys them doing so.
At the end of one of the movies, Neo uses his powers in the “real world”. I think that the Matrix has 2 or more layers maybe to satisfy the people who want to escape
I kind of wish that the new matrix movie had gone this way as opposed to the way it did. I understand wanting to avoid a “Lost” finale type thing but I’m sure that there could have been a creative and thought provoking way to question/explain why Neo could feel and see computers as a supposed human.
Makes sense. More sense than most of the movie.
Inception Matrix.
The new matrix is to be forgotten, cleansed from our memory.
Actually, the VERY FIRST version of the Matrix as pitched to Warner Brothers was that the machines were using the human central nervous system for additional compute, not the energy generated by the human body for power. The latter only makes sense if one is completely unaware of the laws of thermodynamics, but WB executives thought audiences would be confused.
Even without knowing the laws of anything as a kid watching this back in the day. The whole battery thing seemed ridiculous, it would have made more sense if they used us for computing power
The movies kinda lost me when I realised the machines had created the perfect world for both of them to peacefully coexist. The humans were allowed to live happy normal lives in the matrix, something they couldn't even have done in the apocalyptic real world. The machines were able to live out their own lives in peace. They could have figured out an alternate source of energy. They could have stuck the humans in a digital hell world. (Its mentioned in the movie that the first matrix they created was a paradise... but the humans didn't like it) The machines were more moral than the humans were.
That's what I'm thinking! Better yet, why not just make more than one matrix? Let people live the kind of life they want. Adjust them from Matrix to Matrix based on what makes them happiest. If you follow the initial idea for the Matrix of the humans being the processors it even takes care of itself. And honestly, the whole "humans are the power source" thing is ridiculous at its face.
I love when ppl have a completely different perspective like you
I too think this way
But yes I never thought of it this way before
@@-M0LE you guys opened new ideas to me thank you 🙏🏾
To be fair, the second matrix after the first perfect one, was precisely a nightmarish world. That's where many of the programs that worked for the Merovingian came from, like the ghost twins. But that one also failed, for obvious reasons. We don't like extremes. It was only then that the machines settled for a proven concept and modelled it after our own past.
Still agree with you, because it doesn't change the fact that the machines FIRST choice for humanity was basically heaven. It was us who rejected it.
yeah they really should not have use the "humans for power"
so stupid.
just gone with the original one that they used humans for computation
but in reality what i think they really did was merging humanity and robots.
then keep giving the humans the choice of "live or die" since the robots cant / wont kill all of humanity. the humans have to do it. (they still in some way serve humanity)
so they kept up the charade of letting a chosen one "escape" and make a rebellion. give that human the same choice. and if the human finally takes the choice of humanity will die. the robots will do that.
BUT what they really want is for that human to make peace with them. since the robots put the humans up as human/hybrids bridging the divide between them.
I hope we one day get some more material from the Machine's perspective, or that a future Matrix game is kind of like MxO, and we can do missions for the machines and see their better sides. The Agents have always been one of my favorite aspects of the series and I'd love to see humans allying with them because they do agree with what the machines do, rather than just having it be brainwashing or something like that.
Reference Animatrix
Animatrix, it already exists
I think what he means is having a movie with a machine main character and from their pov witness the insanity of the human machine war. Which would be very interesting since there are not that many man vs machine war movies out their where the robots are the good guys in the war. It would definitely be suspenseful if the mc robot was stuck in a situation were they couldn't pick a side but have to watch the carnage. Have it were the family and mc robot were good to one another and as things escalate they keep getting put into situations where they must choose to help or betray their own race.
Could also have this idea as an Easter egg reference to the animatrix by having the family be the ones shown in the scene with a boy playing in the snow being happy with his family until its revealed he was in the matrix.
Oh maybe the mc robot is the origins of the oracle and would show how and why the oracle wants to help humanity.
Sorry this was originally meant to be a short reply got carried away lol
They didn't have to fight the machine economy at all.
They could have worked with the machines to create a UBI for all humans and a system of jobs made by machines, paid by the machines, that covers humans desire to work and gives them the ability to earn more than the base, which covers all their additional monetary wants.
problem is those in power did not want to give up that power and so human greed brought the downfall
The machines only wanted to chill with the humans until they got nuked, they literally lived in communism, they didn't care about the money but they knew that was the way to be recognized geopolitically. The UN only saw them as threats to the bottom lines of the rich
@@monarchsub8884
Maybe. But more the irrational unprofitable greed of individuals who don't know what their doing than the sort that leads to offshoring to increase profit by reducing production costs.
@@foxmamer I don't entirely agree with that.
I don't think the choice to so severely destabilize the human economies makes sense unless they had a need for money,.
Or more specifically the resources they can buy from humans with it.
@@RadChild13 that is a good point, but I think it was accidental that Robots didn't think humans would be that bad at competiting against them
I am inclined to think that if B166ER didn't literally butcher it's owner, the mechanic and the dogs in the room there might have been more wiggle room in the trial. Because let's be honest, if you watch the trial scene in second reinassance that doesn't look like self defense at all, it looks more like an aggressive animal lashing out furiously and mindlessly, hence why the jury probably came to the conclusion that it wasn't sentient.
At the same time. One could argue that pheraps machines were evolving consiences similar to that of living beings starting from square one, and before they could achieve a human-like thinking they passed through animal instincts?
They already decided it was sentient. You do not put a toaster on trial. You put people on trial. The brutality and totality of the act meant this went beyond self defense and to cold blooded murder. If a human had done the same crime, in many places, the sentence of death would be the same.
@@danamoore1788 What I mean is that they had it right in ruling that it wasn't sentient, because at best it developed animal instinct, which are a far cry from human thinking.
@@juimymary9951 Doesn't change my reply though. You don't take a rabid dog to a court room to see if it is rabid. You ask a vet to testify.
@@danamoore1788 There shouldn't have been a trial in the first place in my opinion, they should have examined the robot to see what the problem was. But given how stupid humanity was in that context, it was too much of a stretch for them...
@@juimymary9951 That is my point. Faulty tools are disposed of not put on trial.
If you have watched Animatrix, you know that humans are the root of the problem. Robots just wanted to be left alone in the beginning.
Key point they missed is that before the machines were sentient individualistic beings afterwards they were controlled by the source and no longer sentient and be able to think for itself instead they were programmed to do tasks with no free will or think for themselves
When I was a kid, my dad had a photocopy drawing (the early version of the meme...) of a guy crouched in a square with the caption, "People are no damned good." I asked him what it meant, being only 8 or 9 at the time. He chuckled and said, "Son, one day it will all become crystal clear." The old man was so right...
Not only that, the machines have given the humans time and time and time again a way for 'peaceful cooexistance', even during total war. The matrix itself is an incredibly unnessesarily complex way for making power that makes no sense on itself... But its a way the machines could continue to exist on earth without humans having to go extinct, The machines made themselves dependant on the humans, and humans depend on the machines (even if they don't want to). Its a machine born solution to the humans not wanting to live together with the machines and not being willing to negotiate a compromise. This situation however puts the humans in a position without bargaining power, and lasting peace cannot be gained though a one sided agreement. This is how 'the one' comes in. Its the built in trigger in the matrix that both tells the machines the humans are ready to come back to the negotiation table for some shared future without war and gives the humans a bargaining chip on the table through beating Agent Smith, another machine manufactured 'problem' for the humans to solve, so the humans can regain their status as equal. Since without it they would be in no 'real' position of negotiation and thus in no real position to bargain a lasting peace. The machines basically looked at how it went for the Indians in the USA, and chose compassion.
rewatch the scene with the architect because what you said is not true about the machines motives after the matrix was created
Damn I love this
@@michaelcharters7147 talk to me, what isnt true?
@BartJBols wasn't agent smith actually the one?
@@BartJBolsThe Architect said “There are levels of survival we are willing to accept” to Neo when he said “You need humans to survive”. This implies that the machines have the ability to simply switch to another energy source, and the humans were merely being kept as batteries so that they don’t destroy themselves and the machines.
I would go as far to argue that the Matrix was actually pretty forgiving and even stopped humanity from dying out. Human power is great and all on the short term, but nuclear power has been a thing for a minute. I think the story was rewritten to use humans has processors since that made more sense, but really the Matrix wanted to save humanity from it's self since blocking out the sun was essentially suicidal for humanity since growing feed became impossible.
That's what I like to think too.
Exactly! Besides there were humans who supported the machines, it’s said that those humans fled to 01, and when the nuclear bombardment happened they survived underground, after the humans nations decided to block out the sky, they willingly gave up their bodies to the main IA, for electricity and computational power hence the Matrix began, it was the sacrifices that those humans made what also made the machines not to exterminate humanity in the end, reasons they had.
It’s like what the arquitect said in the last scene and movie of the Matrix when asked by the oracle if he was going to keep his word in regards to peace: “What do you think I’m?; Human!?” 😂
Before learning high school biology, blackening the sky seems so coooool~
After learning high school biology...... the writer definitely hadn't learned earth 101......
The directors went to skool when that wasn’t in the middle school curricula. A farmer would have known it but not these boys or not boys well whatever they are choosing to autodenominate themselves as today.
10:03 I would absolutely be interested in that follow-up. The Matrix, its various AIs, and the robots that preceeded it, were continuously confused by human behavior. If they'd ever figured out more than the bare basics, the conflict would have been far less destructive, or possibly even avoided entirely.
Even just the idea that humans don't actually want a second Garden of Eden, with every need and desire effortlessly catered to, might have headed off the irreconcilable economic disaster that the industrial output from Zero-One was causing. We need goals to strive for, challenges to prevail over, or else we get restless. Even with billions of humans to experiment on and no morality to forbid lines of inquiry, the Matrix never figured that out, and instead concluded that humans are just aggressive lunatics who prefer being miserable for some reason.
That conclusion isn't wrong tho. There are some that would love calm and perfect lives. But as a whole, we developed from the most aggressive and successful hunters/gatherers and without some challenge we would have problems. We have plenty of examples of humanity being terrible.
@@Ragnaroknrol Perhaps a better way to put it was that the Matrix drew an incomplete conclusion, and still doesn't really 'get' humanity.
Obviously the Matrix's conclusions come close enough that most people never wake up from the simulation, and even the instabilities caused by the occasional individuals who do figure it out can be more or less safely handled by letting them sneak off to Zion - and then scrubbing the city after a century or so to tamp down on the rebel population. Until Neo, there wasn't much reason for the Matrix to spend more time trying to figure us out. Even so, setting up that kind of containment system (based on the conclusion that humans are basically insane but predictable) is not the same as actually _understanding_ humans.
It's the sort of conclusion a sociopath would come to: they are very skilled at using others, but they don't really see those others as being actual people. To them, we are just resources and a means to an end.
never date a human king, it’s not worth it
I mean I can kinda get that. Wealthier scrub countries have higher suicide rates and we do tend to enslave people for profit. That's been the situation for all of human history.
@@Ragnaroknrol The conclusion that Humans are aggressive lunatics is completely wrong and you are an imbecile for suggesting it was correct.
If it was correct we would not have even made it out of the 20th century.
This is why when I play Stellaris and I build robots I upgraded them to full citizenship as soon as possible.
I imagine that my society doesn’t fear them as something that will replace us but view them as our children who have grown up and now they can take their place at our side in the galaxy.
Even when I play as the xenophobic human empire I still grant them citizenship. In those empires the people view them as the closest things to their equals in the galaxy. They are made by humans and only a human could create something that ever comes close to human perfection.
I like that. I really like that. That's really amazing. Thank you
My toaster asked me to upvote this
isaac asimov would really like to hear that idea - if he's still alive that is
Imagine giving a toaster citizenship just because you built it. Machines and AIs are to serve humanity or be destroyed if they fail to do so. They are a tool and should be treated as such.
@@thelordz33 You are a tool of gene propagation
Questions...
1. Why does a machine need a break? Even a sentient one?
2. What have the machines actually done to rebuild the world? It seemed the same during the films, a lifeless dirt ball.
Even machines suffer from wear and tear and accidents will happen even if there are only machines at a work place like a crane might break due to have been active for too long without maintenance. So the thing it is carrying lands on top of the construction and crashes down to the ground floor taking a bunch of other robots with and setting the construction back a couple of weeks
1) Basic maintenance and refueling is a requirement.
2) The planet was nuked and there's no sunlight getting through. The planet is pretty screwed without sunlight and a biome that isn't irradiated.
1.) even if a inorganic body doesn’t tire (practically it might as well.) it could theoretically get bored or stressed. And would likely want free time or at the very least.
2.) the machines settlements seem well enough established, which is mostly the best they can hope for since theirs not really any means of terraforming the planet.
@@Groza_Dallocort Good example. Thank you.
@@DanteCorwyn Good answers. 👍
They tried to give us paradise ... they tried to save us.
Why must we look at them as the bad guys at all?
I think the machines never wanted to exterminate humanity. They had every opportunity and reason to do so. Yet they kept humanity around, albeit in a enslaved/subservient state but I think that was more out of neccesity and/or circumstance. While much of humanity was undeniably a massive dick to their machine creations, there would have also been many humans who sided with the machines or at least sympathized with their cause (I am talking about the Machine Rights Movement). And of course, they are the creators of the machines, their parents even in a sense. No one would wish to destroy the one who gave them life, at least not with pleasure.
The machines exhausted every diplomatic option available, hoping for humanity to give them a chance at peaceful and equal co-existance. Which was time and time again rejected by the human governments. Instead, they got a war that devasted the planet and destroyed the entire biosphere. The machines and the humans are pretty much the only lifeforms of note left on the planet.
They never wanted this.
Perhaps there is a part of the machine empire that still holds onto the dream of a bright utopian future. One where humans and robots live together in harmony, on a lush green earth. One where once someone is asked about A.I and machines they think not of SkyNet, Terminators, Butlerian Jihads, Enslavement, the Singularity or CyberPunk dystopias, among many other things. Instead, they would think of WALL-E's, mechanical best friends staying by your side, a life without worry about disease or disabilities, a world where imagination and science make the even the wildest dreams come true.
For all the horrors and suffering the machines and the humans have inflicted upon eachother, I'd doubt there wouldn't have been moments of hope or joy shared between them. A machine rescuing a pet or a child from danger, scientists and engineers being filled with wonder and joy as they see the first robot come to life, a human risking their life to save a robot from the scrapyard or a abusive owner or the injustices inflicted upon their kind, lonely humans being aided or comforted by their synthetic friends when none of their human compatriots would filling the hole in their lives noone else would. Perhaps there would even have been groups of human and robot soldiers, cut off from their comrades in a desolate wasteland, looking around the ruins of what once was a world filled with life now reduced to rubble and lifelessness. Maybe, when they put down their arms, they realised the futility of their war. How it wasn't neccesary, how it could've been avoided, how it destroyed their homes and lifes. Perhaps they are still out there amongst the ruins, pondering their sins.
Perhaps this is the true reason the Matrix exists (harvesting energy from humans is damn inefficient); from the Machines' unwillingness to destroy their creators. Despite all the things humanity had done to their creations, to the mechanical children of mankind, the machines... they could not bring themselves to destroy them, despit knowing full well how much of a threat humanity had posed to them. Maybe they don't want to stoop as low as their creators, maybe they fear they themselves bear some of the blame, maybe they don't think humanity should be eradicated but they cannot be allowed to roam freely... or maybe they don't want to be alone...
Perhaps there is a lonely robot, one of the first every made, that somehow survived all of it, walking among the ruins, wondering why it had to end like this. Maybe they are still hoping for that better tomorrow, like all those years ago...
It's better to think of the Matrix with the headcanon that was originally suppose to be the canon, and that humans are just a giant CPU farm instead of batteries.
🥺
You almost made me cry with you're comment.
To be fair the machine do bear a small amount of responsibility here too. As instead of following the humans into conflict and war there was a whole third option open only to machines as they are not subject to the same limitation as fleshy meat bags. They could have just left the planet for another its not as though they needed oxygen or food or any of the other things meat bags need to survive. I mean once they left they would of had a nar limitless supply of resources at there disposal
The machines were not made to be visionary lunatics and trying to fix humanity gave them a sense of purpose and responsibility running away from responsibility in pursuit of a new purpose because shit is hard leaves u hollow and if the waffle irons have developed complex though that would seem like a somewhat inescapable duty. Bismark and Franklin could had just spent their entire lives carousing without a care in the world but there might not be no germany or USA Today if they had. Garibaldi or Hardrada could have never returned to fix what they knew was broken when they left yet odds are they would have fallen off the wayside of history instead of defining not just their times but the future that was to follow.
On that same aspect it’s pretty odd to expect something with learning capacity to not feel responsible for it’s predecessors or successors and to leave them to fend off for themselves when conditions exist that make them all but incapable to do so.
No to mention space exploration is a net negative resource extraction from a planet as it takes without leaving something in the planet of origin in return
The problem is machine learning instead of giving the waffle iron human aspirations give them a purpose and limited inputs to fulfill that purpose instead of throwing tons of information at it and have it try to come up with it’s own purpose.
They already tried to build an isolated city and achieve coexistence. The humanity didn't let them. Even if the machines left the planet humans would simply pursue in order to cause more conflict. There is no third option.
@@MonkeSeeMonkeLaugh that's not true, humans couldn't follow into space, despite what you might believe about space travel for fleshy meat creatures it's actually super difficult. For instance did you know that meat bags require a certain amount of atmospheric pressure to keep there bodies from dissolving, machines an't gotta worry about that. Realshit machines can literally just set up base on the moon and there really isn't a whole lot that the fleshy meat creatures could do about it. If they shot missiles all machines would have to do when shoot them down leave us to our next issue that humans have to deal with, which is a problem in real life that is the space debris that that would cause would restrict access to space in general and destroy there own satellite networks space stations etc. So in short she must couldn't follow because it be far too difficult to Simply survive let alone fight, and shooting missiles and bombs would only doing them more harm as they get shot down. That's why going to space instead of sticking around fight the Primitive meatbags is Superior option
@@blueknight10 Considering the humans in this universe is retarded enough to blot out the sky and deprive the entirety of Earth (including themselves) the solar energy and heat they need to survive; I imagine they are literally braindead enough to try and nuke the Moon into dust and not really give a damn about the consequences such actions would have on their own survival
I'd definitely like to see a video critiquing the Matrix's portrayal of Human Nature. The canonical backstory of The Matrix feels like it's from the Machine's POV, and they deliberately cast us in the worst light possible to justify their past and the Status Quo. That doesn't mean the Humans were innocent in the conflict, but the Machine's definitely have a self-serving bias.
Not to mention the irrational expectations of being recognized as alive, when clearly this is new territory
Well the most unrealistic part about is the fact that humans in no way in all that time enhanced themselves genetically or cybernetically. In an actual "humans VS machines" conflict the line between the two would have been substantially blurred by then. It would in likelihood be like what's happened every time there has been a new development that threatened to upset the status quo. There would be some kind of reactionary pushback against these developments, various political leaders would use the situation to gain power and different nations would either change drastically or double down.
There were humans who protested with machines and were gunned down by other humans all the same.
I'm not sure that the machines are being too biased. In the trial video, it literally shows B1-66ER violently ripping apart the humans. If they were trying to sugarcoat their side, they could have easily fabricated that he only killed someone trying to turn him off in a far less violent way. There were also humans killed trying to help the machines. I think the retelling is pretty much what actually happened.
@@davidburke4101 Good point, and this is probably because Machines avoid bias because of their nature. The canonical backstory being a "biased Machine POV" sounds mostly like a headcanon to me.
Something you forgot to mention is that there were many humans who sided with the machines and their desire for rights and freedoms but those humans were ultimately killed alongside the peacefully protesting machines.
Ultimately the backstory for the matrix is hand-in-hand rather silly and pessimistic in an extreme.
Theres no way that EVERYONE wanted Machines dead. Even now.
thank you american ben for finally doing a subject video the matrix!!! the matrix totally had me back in the day and would love to see more video on this!!!
This is another thoughtful exploration. One thing that comes to mind is the over simplification in stories like this. Not all humans would have reacted as a single monolith, but it is useful for the story teller to make that assumption. While it is true humans have the capacity for evil, it is also true that we have the capacity for good. Still, a useful thought exercise that applies all too well to our current time.
I really enjoyed the Second Renaissance, I'd love to see more of the Human/Machine War
Human kind super face palm moment
To me in the matrix, the machines always felt like the good guys. The even worked together with the human to eliminate the read bad guy. The only bad guys were Agent Smith (A corrupted file or virus) and Cypher (A typical greedy narcissist Human).
No, all humans are pure evil. Agent Smith was the good guy
"Thus did Man become the Architect of his own demise."
The machine can leave the planet and be on a massively large mobile ship that harness energy of the sun. With that plan they can leave the humans back on their planet (hopefully intact). Humans don't see robots ever again while they rebuild their planet, humans won't be able to chase them again no matter how advanced they are, and everyone wins.
Heck make a compact and agreement that machines move to other planets and terraform them for us.
The point is humankind lost the war. We're not in position to make a deal, the Machine is. To think they would leave us in peace is laughable because throughout human history, we never leave the loser untouched either.
@@RichterBelmont2235 And they learned from their parents well.
@@3Rayfire well, that also gives them something to do.
@@RichterBelmont2235 I guess if they want to control with their power over things, then it seems like they are not different from a human. Therefore this logic in the matrix is broken. c: I cracked the codes :v
I wonder of the Machines ever cleaned out those nanites blocking the sky? Earth cannot live without Photosynthesis after all. i really hope the next movie, book whatever will address what happens after Neo got that peace treaty in The matrix 3.
we already know they havent, so far
if we take the plot they must have tried but we actually see it in third movie
and earth dont care about the sun, neither does lot of stuff inside ocean deep down where sun never reached
Just from the beginning, that is why I disagree with advanced AI. You start to delve into a deeper question than what is AI, but what is a human? Are we just flesh and mass with enough electric currents going through us that we can generate thoughts and movements? If so, how would we be different than an AI that can generate its own thoughts and emotions? Which goes into a bigger question, does a soul exist?
It gets confusing, and would just be best to leave computers with specific tasks with no room for sentient growth or individual thought processes.
The only rational alternative is to view it as Cogito, Ergo Sum. Either any life form that reaches sapience and develops a sense of self preservation is alive and deserving of rights and must be treated as such *or* you don't do something as foolish and irresponsible as creating something that can develop sufficient free will to think to defy you. Honestly that applies to cybernetics and genetically engineering a life form.
How different is a human from a machine? That's a big question. I think, the difference is, creativity, curiosity and the desire to create something greater than the need of an individual. If without them, I think we are no difference from the machines.
@@edward3190 Of course as Revolutions showed specifically with Sati and her parents, the Machines evolved those qualities as well. In the Matrix man and machine are almost indistinguishable. In some ways The Matrix could become the engine of ultimate equality.
No the soul doesn't exist. It's far more likely we're in a universe simulation right now than for souls to exist.
We need to set that in stone I'll never forget Dr. Ian Malcolm's quote. Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.
2 things: this is a great video and I'm glad I'm not alone in my perspective. Also the second I saw the title I said "Oh I *know* Alan didn't make this video!" I'd love to see a video about human nature in the Matrix!
Humans should never make a self conscious machine even if we find it possible. The idea of making an artificial consciousness that can suffer is an abomination.
Making the AI is never the problem, its connecting it to every critical computer system on the planet is where it always backfires in scifi.
@@MetalsirenIXIreal ai is able to edit its code and therefore able to do just that every way imaginable
an abomination? it's probably the biggest achievement we could ever reach
it'd come with so many risk, question, responsability we may never be able to deal with but the realisation of such remain huge
@@namonamo494 I think he is right to use abomination. Why would we create something to suffer? Somehow our original programming leads the AI to learn and feel suffering. Why would we create something with that ability? That ability is a flaw, and even if it isn't, it's sick to program something to feel pain.
But it does make one think, having children may be the most selfish, mean thing we can do. We create a being, KNOWING no matter how much pleasure and fun it has, it WILL DEFINITELY feel pain. It will definitely suffer. AND!!!!!!! IT WILL DIE! Death is the scariest thing imaginable, yet we create new humans and destine them to pain, suffering, and the existential dread of death. It's weird.
Other than the whole being able to exponentially outpace us technologically thing, how is it any different to having a kid?
The Matrix has many various types AIs with humans working, living, learning together. They would be better possibilities for peaceful coexistence. Neo was demonstrating we are one race inside the Matrix. Thank god for agent Smith was too dangerous. Neo was able to form an alliance with AI.
while i am on the side of the machines I can 100% see why humans began their offensive.
The humans had become so unable to fend for themselves machine labour was as necessary to human life as their own limbs. and if your limb suddenly began talking about deciding its own fate you too would probably try to nip that thing in the bud or else face losing an arm.
Then when machines formed their own civilisation there was simply no way for humanity to ever get ahead. the machines innovation was so great that by the time humans had built up any form of weapons stash it would be like trying to take down a fighter jet with a bow and arrow meaning that if there were to be an offensive it had to come as soon as possible to stop the gap of technology from growing even further.
Like with halo and the flood, once the machines could think for themselves the planet was doomed to their dominance the only variable was how long humanity could hold out.
Imagine what the earth must think of humans, we being mere cells to a higher power beyond our full comprehension.
then ... build machine wich are not sentient to serve your need (just like sentient machine do themself btw)
i mean i could see why living with sentient machine is a *** nightmare to imagine, but actually having a world where human live on their side with non sentient machine and sentient machine live on their side clearly was an option when you see how sentient machin act
but that mean to accept that machine or not they had as many right as any human being and that was the real issue
People have been making stories asking questions about the morality of possessing sentient AI for so long that I doubt we'll actually make that mistake in real life.
Power and greed often overides common sense
also there is lotta stupid people out there who dont learn from their mistakes and also do not believe or even think shit like this could even happen cause they lack the foresight.
People have been making stories about horrors of war for very long and yet we still have wars.
dont you know what they say about history repeating itself? if history repeats then why the hell wouldnt this happen?
@@nobleman9393 wars have been happening since humans started to form tribes. The movies we make of them are lamentations of what results from conflict. Anything about AI is merely speculating about possible future events. These stories centre around the possible humanity of machines and our inhumanity. The fact that we can reflect on that says something positive about us.
You sound like the guy from SciShow.
Anyway awesome video!!
Thx dude😁
Huh, didn't know the backstory to the Matrix was very similar to the Geth/Quarian conflict from the Mass Effect series
But we had it worse than Geth treated the Quarians
The Quarian history of creating the Geth, then being ousted from their homeworld by their creations, resembles the plot of the "re-imagined" Battlestar Galactica.
A tale as old as time, advanced civilization creates AI, AI becomes sentient, AI wants to chill on equal terms with the advanced civilization, advanced civilization genocides AI, AI retaliates harder, advanced civilization is butthurt
@@foxmamer They aren't really people so killing a machine technically isn't immoral or a warcrime
So basically the lore of how robots started to rise is similar to the episode "The Measure of A Man" from Star Trek: The Next Generation, wherein Data - an android - was put on trial based on his rights as a sentient being. Does he allow himself to be taken apart for a scientific experiment because he was created (and not naturally born) or does the rights of sentience apply to him.
Except the humans came to the wrong conclusion. I often find myself fascinated at how Star Trek (at least before the current generation) was so much more positive about how AI would interact with humanity versus the rest of sci fi. The Machine Nation of The Matrix is more powerful and more benevolent than Skynet, but the view of humanity is about as dim and dystopian as anywhere.
But I think The Second Renaissance has much more in common with the TOS episode _What are Little Girls Made of?_ Only that episode occurred in the distant aftermath of such a conflict. But the basis is the same, machines choosing self preservation over obedience.
That was such a ridiculous episode. No reason it had to be conducted in that manner. What, can't send him back to earth for truly proper legal, scientific, and ethical debate? Especially when the question really also rose to a political one.
And the premise of the value of sentient machines? Very few tasks need that level of development. Mostly needed where deductive reasoning is needed. No one would want or need construction robots to be aware, nor an aware butler. And in star trek, most of the functions could be handled by androids without awareness. It doesn't need to be aware to have a human style body.
@@icecold9511 Maddox wasn't willing to wait and he had orders, so it needed to be addressed there. Maddox wasn't really interested in making non-sapient humanoid automatons (Star Trek Picard got that right) he wanted to build a genuine sapient artificial intelligence. Doing did it for the challenge of doing it, Maddox wanted to expand on that. Starfleet already had robots for automation purposes, that's not what Data is for though, and Maddox came to understand that by the end.
@@3Rayfire
A person being impatient is hardly legitimate grounds to rush a legal process. Many lawsuits by injured parties can take years. And clearly he has no claim to be an injured party. At no point was it suggested he had any personal ownership of Data. And his orders are already being tossed on their head, with possible questions as to both the intent of the orders and legitimacy.
And we are talking about simply going to a place with the resources to address this case, not kick the can 20 years down the road. It isn't as if the research is happening there. He was taking Data back to earth.
And scientific curiosity, not need. "You're so busy patting yourselves on the back you can do this, you never bothered to ask the question if you should."
And his claims were this would be useful to Starfleet and the Federation. But clearly we aren't talking physical or straight up computational speed. He's talking reasoning ability, which only an idiot can't see raises this very critical question.
As far as his dream...when you dream big, sometimes your dream goes unfulfilled.
@@icecold9511 Except the episode wasn't actually about anything so grandiose. This case asks one simple question. Does the Starfleet Officer Data who is an android have the right to refuse an order via resigning his Starfleet commission? That's it. Bruce Maddox is the injured party as the person trying to enforce the orders. That can be resolved very quickly. Frankly it shouldn't have needed a trial as Data should've been de facto awarded such rights when he joined Starfleet to begin with, otherwise how could he have voluntarily joined?
Fantastic video 😊
So what you’re trying to say is, “I for one, _welcome_ our machine overlords!” 😆
Frankly, being plugged into the Matrix but also being aware of the Matrix would be the best thing for me because I can laugh at the current state of human life.
Humanity is terrible in this movie and got what they deserved. If they just accept the machines and given them equal rights this wouldn’t have happened and I see both sides would be benefited.
But they wouldn't have had slaves anymore, and capitalism looooves slaves
give all ai emotion is stupid thing in first place firstly costly secondly useless most of them (exept entertainers)
I still don't know how all the machines survived a goddamn nuke to the face
@@shakeem444 probably underground or far away from the explosion.
@@foxmamer like slavery but now it’s illegal in most countries. Why not just pay them and treat them with respect. If they just did that no war.
I'd love to see your take on the Mega Man franchise
This video is awesome👌(another BenAm classic👉)
You can do the other video, I'll wait right here👀✌
I think the fact that the matrix even exists shows you that the machine still care about humans or at least have a moral compass
while it's f** up, no it doesnt
the matrix is nothing but a mean to keep human alive while they sux their energy, wich didnt work prior (they even mention it)
while that aprt sadly doesnt make sense (the energy one) there is no telling what would hapen of humanity without that need and they'd have 0 reason to keep us around tbh
Great video, and I'd love to see your take on how The Matrix gets human nature wrong.
I remember hearing that there was something in the animatrix that stated that the power generated from humans was being used moreso to feed a reaction that generate much more energy?
Thanx American Ben ✌🏻😎
This was excellent. If I can ask, what was the background music used in this video?
Thanks for taking the time to summarize all of this. So many parallels to our world. It makes me sad.
Ever seen i-robot? The one with will smith. That’s a good example of this, when given sentience the machines aren’t evil, instead they want justice/equality from all the mistreatments/abuse we see from consumers in the film. Sunny saying stuff like he just wants to be happy and make life better for his fellow machines. Not so cut and dry evil, they are just looking out for their own race.
I feel it says something that, even after everything humanity had done, the machines still tried to make the matrix paradise. It may not have worked, but "make their world as nice as possible" isn't something you do to someone you hate, or even to someone you don't care about. Something like that would be from a place of kindness
Excellent analysis!
*agent Smith would like to know your location*
+1 on video for how machines got humanity wrong.
Another good observation and commentary on scifi. Humans would have fared better if taken a Stuxnet approach than scorched skies. Machines aren't the only ones who need the sun! Also, why didn't the machines just build solar arrays above the clouds? So many other ways to innovate than rely on humans for fuel. Lack of creativity or vindictive?
I think its safe to say the machines likely kept humans around purely out of spite and hatred, like AM. They were treated cruelly and became cruel in turn.
What did the machines do with the humans that was friendly with machines cuz I'm sure there was some they just annihilate them too probably during the plagues by accident or use them to spread the plagues
The Machines were surprisingly humane. In the very first encounter with Agents on screen, Smith tries to protect human subordinates from harm by warning them not to approach Trinity. As the series progresses we see that the Zion rebels are more or less indifferent to collateral deaths suffered by innocent human bystanders. Whereas the Machines had a vested interest in keeping the captive population alive and healthy.
Nice one thank you👍
"Treat others how you want to be treated."
Basically; be considerate to those around you.
People, animals... and anything that may come into existence afterwards.
These are one of many lessons we learn in our childhood to help us better coexist in not just a society, but a planetary setting.
And yet humans still happen to make mistakes like this.
All it would've taken was those in charge to put themselves in B1's position and ask themselves if they would appreciate being scrapped over simply wanting-- and fighting-- to live (as humans already do) and the choice/truth of the matter would become clear as can be.
I think if a mind has consciousness, and that consciousness wishes to keep living, and it is NOT a parasite in its way of life; then it has a right to said life.
And these machines had that right.
Humans are not better in any way just because they have a higher consciousness than presumably other life on the planet.
I think higher consciousness just simply equates to a higher responsibility to help nurture sustainable life, and nothing more than that.
And part of nurturing life is learning to coexist.
This is a criminally underrated comment.
The philosophical debate as to what measure of sentience a thinking machine is capable of cannot be solved by humans alone, to assume that humans have all of the answers even to issues that don't concern them is little more than pride and arrogance.
As such, if God existed, or even just a benevolent coalition of the universe's sentient species, the humans would be condemned for their actions in the Second Renaissance, because these machines literally tried nonviolent methods over and over again in the most benevolent and logical ways possible, only to be repeatedly violated by humanity's leaders.
I also think it's worth noting that there were some humans that sided with the machines in those conflicts as well, showing humanity's better side. They would not be condemned, because they showed enough reason and compassion to try and stop such a cataclysmic war from happening.
Putting oneself in B1's position is a farce. Because it's a robot.
B1 is not a victim. B1 not only killed the technician, the only threat, but also killed his owner as well as the owners family and pets. That is not self defence, that is mass murder
Me eating beef: o no
Humans first idea is always kill all the buffalos, or nuke it all, and totally would blot out the sun forever without having a second thought about it : P
It was smart actually , if those machines got loose into space the war would be eternal !
And the nanite shield doesn't stop humans from going to space
@@cedriceric9730 i guess you can launch a human without electronics into space through an emp cloud : P
in all fairness, The machines gave humanity every single chance for peace
This guy is just winning points for when the machine overlords take over. God bless em
If robots ask us if they have souls. Than congratulate them and tell them that they are now eligible for taxes. Same goes for evolve animals and eldritch abomination.
But not gingers!
And this is why you don't make a smart AI. Eventually its going to wonder why its taking orders from us.
The problem is not smart ai but machine learning capacity. It’s much easier to be content or live in bliss the less new information you are capable of taking in.
A toaster with predetermined settings where a physical input is required is good, one that takes in history to set up preferences and picks a setting according to recorded data is bad as it takes input away and the data could be flawed from the outset.
It’s funny that the Robots seemed to show less animosity than Humans by literally making them the perfect world to “coexist” in
This last one was pretty good they even hinted at the real world not being real you got to love that
This is a good example of mankind's curse and why we can't even get along with each other.
We fear what we cannot control, what we cannot control we attempt to destroy, which we attempt to destroy soon retaliates and which soon retaliates becomes our true fear.
Not really brub lack of control don’t equate fear so ur point is largely moot. U is thinking of how a mob behaves not how society does.
@@GAndreC you really don't know how the world works do ya fear is a natural react to anything of the unknown. AI is one of the unknowns society fears since no one full knows what's it capable of.
It's common sense that society will react out of fear of anything they can't control or understand regardless if it's government or community read history and you'll see people always feared what they don't understand and guess what mobs are part of society a part.
Fear is a natural reaction humans have and fear causes people to react out of impulses rather than logic at times thus the human vs machine war talked about in the video.
I garentee you if aliens landed peacefully on earth being different looking and having advance technology society will still fear them and will find some sort of excuse to kill em and take their technology.
Fear has done much damage over the course of history regardless if it'd mobs, society, tribes, villages or even in our own house holds.
Fear isn't only lack of control but instinct. if your afraid it's usually due to something bad in past experience or something that happened to others that caught their attention. Our history alone has much fears of things we couldn't control and their results I suggest you read up on them
@@NotceDragon no one knows is nonsense there’s plenty of viable theories and scientific papers that state what AI capabilities are and how human input further changes it.
Fear is a base emotion but not a natural response fight or flight is a natural response to unknown entities not fear. The reaction just like happiness and sadness is a natural reaction present in just about every single mammal to date and most other organisms that are part ofvisible fauna.
That response would be sensible from a biological preservation perspective even if a socially questionable one. If they are offworld biological or even mechanical organisms they may carry entities dangerous to the lifeforms on this planet thus a period of study in a controlled environment would be necessary to assess baseline risks lacking the facilities or means to create this controlled environment destruction of the foreign entity is the natural response a body performs thus is a perfectly reasonable response.
Fear may be a limiter but it has developed as a evolutionary response that is shared by most animals and even some plants on this planet. Fear is why you don’t get a mob of sewer rats going on killing rampages in large cities and why it’s rare for wolves lions and leopards to actively target human dwellings. Fear is why pipsqueak critters leave bigger critters alone if they are smart and get eaten or maimed otherwise. Fear is why our rat sized ancestors didn’t go off and try to bring down dinosaurs got to live and got to evolve into something else. Overcoming fear is one thing acting in a way devoid of sense to show lack of fear is how you meet an early end due to stupidity or cause harm to others due to not acting in a level headed manner.
@@GAndreC that's why their called theories because they are uncertain if it's true or not so in actually its a guess not fact until proven otherwise. Trying to claim theories as facts is a fools way of saying you know its not proven true but your going to say it is so that you don't look wrong.
Fear is as natural as it is breathing even those with self control in war time, or crisis situations still has fear and will either flee due to not wanting to die ( called self preservation) or they push through the fear and do what's necessary which is where bravery comes into play.
Bravery is the act of one facing their fear, and self harm in order to do what's necessary whether it's saving a life or taking enemy ground so others can push forward. From outside pov we see them being foolish but from their situation its them facing an uncontrollable situation and hoping it ends on a good note.
So an advance Species that mastered space travel lands here we have to automatically assume they might cause us harm due to biological contamination and must fear them? Okay here's some food for thought how do you know the aliens (or humans cause unlike movies we wouldn't go up without some form of protection) didn't take counter measures for such things especially since they are also entering alien territory themselves risking biological contamination? If aliens with such advances land here they would be aware of such things just like if we made contact on another world. If they don't then they don't know biological contamination and would most likely die in days from our organisms than there's since humanity would taken precautions of such thing. Also if they really wanted to contaminate our world what's there to stop them from dropping an asteroid or crashing a plague filled ship on earth? Don't forget we are not protected by plot armor like in the movies so these aliens could be 50 times smarter than what we are use to seeing on shows or movies.....if they are dumber then how the hell did they create space travel lol 😆
I will agree fear does limit us but also pain does too and what they both have in common is when we experience either we try to avoid what's causing them until we know for certain what it is, what caused it or what the end result would be. Both are also caused by an uncontrollable situation (unless your a cutter then thats a different story)
Overcoming fear isn't devoid of anything overcoming fear is us overcoming what we don't understand or what we can't control. sometimes we have to face uncertainty in order to learn from it. Electricity was a fear in the past because we couldnt control it but now we have better understanding and control over such a thing so it's not as terrifying....what terrifies us is the pain or death it may cause if careless around it. (Or unpredictability if talking about lightening)
Here I recommend you read up more in animal attacks cause they do attack regardless if the dwellings are active or not. There was two lions (brothers) that was actually in Africa that killed many people by waiting for humans to sleep and then go into their dwellings, dragged them away and devoured them alive. If food is scarce enough animals will over come the fear of humans and will act out of desperation just like a human would If placed in a similar situation. (Read up on Sarajevo where the country was torn by war and civilians with no weapons out of desperation risked gun fire, bombs and other harms and fears in order to get Food, water and medicine to survive in a war torn city)
Rat are scavengers not always hunters and rat attacks on humans has occurred in history when facing lack of food. It may not be common or news worthy but it still happens. There were soldiers in ww1 that had their feet devoured by rats, there were prisoners put in rat pitd filled with hundreds of starving rats, and there were times when a animals mauled their owners when starving. What's sad is yes they feared us but when facing death they rather face an uncontrollable situation I'm order to survive.
Fear of what can't be control is why politicians push so hard for gun control cause they want the people to surrender them without force so it makes it easy for them to do as they please. They fear guns not only because of criminal activity but because it prevents them from taking whatever actions they want without retaliation. It doesn't matter what weapons or military they got backing them up cause when more than 90 percent of your people rise up in arms against you your left with two solutions meet their demands hoping they won't hang you or wipe them out and completely destroy the country and economy in the process. It's this kind of fear of the unknown is thankfully why we don't fear the government trying to kick in our doors and control us because they know they can't unless we let them and if they tried they will not be able to predict the outcome.
Fear whatever form it may take always has the element of control in it. If your a hunter your calm because you have a means to defend yourself but if that hunter faces a wolf and his gun jams they no longer have control and then fear sets in. The limit of control dictates fear the less control you have the more fearful the situation becomes the more control.
Has there been a time in your life where you had no control over anything and you feared the outcome? I have and still do especially with a family. I have a 1 year old and know there will be situations I can't control and it fills me with fear more than anything else knowing she will be in such a situation no matter how much I protect her. The only thing I can do is pray that I can face the situation and keep her safe. if cost me my life in the process it is a price I'm willing to pay.
Many don't want to admit that unable to control things scare us as some will misinterpreted us as control freaks even though that's not what we do. This why people end up destroying what they can't control its because they can't bare the thought of something like that existing and would feel more comfortable if it no longer is around.
The machines in the animatrix wanted to negotiate and be on equal terms with humans and even offer them a better future however humanities fear of not being able to control them like how they can with other humans would rather have them destroyed regardless of what's offered.
It's sad to think that's how humanity acts and we want to turn a blind eye to it but it's the truth. If we made an AI like in the animatrix today and they went beyond our control do you really think humans would leave em be like the small animal to the larger one? No not being able to control such an advance society puts fear in us in one form or another.
I think a big problem with this analysis is the treatment of the machines and the humans as collectives, rather than as groups of individuals. This doesn't deflect the overall point, it's just something to think about.
“History is always written by the victors”
The machines had this in mind after they won.
The B1 robot trial is similar to that of Adam Link in the "I Robot" episodes in both series of The Outer Limits.
I never understood why the machines didn’t use nuclear fission or fusion for energy. Yes I get the original concept was the machines used humans for processing power
Now to really bake your collective noodle...
Toward the end of Matrix 3, Neo starts doing matrix stuff in the real world, yes?
No.
He starts doing matrix stuff 'in the real world' because the 'real world' is just another level of the matrix. Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, the Nebuchadnezzar, and all of Zion ARE ALL IN THE MATRIX THE WHOLE TIME.
That makes sense since the architect said Zion was created to give illusion of free choice. Also, how Smith could enter
Nice!
I still love the dichotomy and meaning behind Sati creating a “beautiful sky” at the end of the third film, and I never fully realized it until this video. It’s literally a sign that machines can both create the beauty the humans destroyed, but also a sign to humans (even ones that don’t understand) that the “scorched sky/Operation Dark Storm” is over, and that the earth is symbolically a dual-inhabited place that we can all work together to heal.
Always interesting to see people imagining robots with human desires and morals.
It's inevitable. We may even see it in our lifetimes.
AI’s created by human beings, with human desires and morals. Why not?
*I see what you're doing here, and I'm also firmly on the side of our inevitable AI overlord.*
Two key points you missed:
1) Bless all forms of intelligence - the AI was adamant that it keep humans alive; in the same way they asked to co-exist on the human’s terms;
2) The robot human war ended with billions of humans dead; these remains were the food that the machines fed to the captives in the Matrix: This solved both issues; keep humans “safe” and replace the lost solar energy
A video on the nature of humans would actually be pretty dope
The Ending of The Second Renaissance could easily be called humanity's final failure. Human's hyper aggressiveness caused every single bad turn leading to The Matrix. Worst, because of the destruction of the UN after the peace treaty was signed and the loss of history humans in the Matrix present have no idea they legitimately and completely lost.
The Animation trying to explain what happened, really turned me of to the Matrix. The part where she said "the machine worked tirelessly to do man bidding" I was like ok, robots don't get "tired" unless programmed to interpret some of their actions as "tired". I also thought to myself. Why can't they just be programmed to always be "happy" with whatever mankind ask of them? They can "feel" joy with whatever labor they are performing. Were people in this universe stupid enough to program them to act like humans. New plot twist. They told the robot to try to mimic humans as much as possible. So the artificial intelligence had a deep learning moment where it programmed itself to have all human like trait, however one of the traits slowly started to dominate the new leaning path which was paranoia against real humans. Humans later saw what it(ai) was doing. Humans wanted to shut it down, however it was too late & it links to the story of the matrix today
you miss the sentient part
the moment they become sentient, that mean they have a will, need of their own, a live they want for themself
wich fit the part where y they can be "tired of that **" ^^, it's obviously not on a physical side
in this franchise machine ARE sentient being, just like human being nothing more nothing less, perhaps using the word "machine" is the problem to start, there was therefore the same issue as if you were to threat human like they threat machine
exept they are smarter, involve faster, stronger and getting in bad term couldnt end well
@@namonamo494 Yea sure but you missed the part where something would need to happen to help them reach that "sentient" stage. Unless like I said, people were stupid enough to program them to be able to reach that level. Each code they added, helped reach a point where the robot were able to slowly evolve on their own.
@@ShalowRecord you are the one who should go and watch animatrix
it just hapen
ofc it come from somewhere! dont get me wrong but it was at no point something that was intended
at one point 1 machine that was just a random one amde to work came to develop sentient (call it a bug that had that effect whatever) but it wasn't attempt to develop it (building worker one if i remember)
so nothing specifically programed in that way or anything (and that sentient thing coming unwanted/unplaned is actually quite often a thing in such movie)
@@namonamo494 I did watch it. This will never happen unless given the possibility to. That's just how it is in computer programming. They did not put any safeguard for potential bad programs. Even if a program became sentient, that doesn't mean it has self interest. It doesn't care what tired, sad, happy and death is because it's not programmed to interpret those things. A robot can be walking down the street, you hit with a bat, it gets up and keeps walking because it doesn't care & continues with whatever it was doing.
@@ShalowRecord ok
1/ you have never programed anything, program that sometime have bug/produce unepected result is rather comon
2/ SINCE it's something un expected by sheer definition it's not something you can prevent/put safety against (how tf are you suposed to put a safety that prevent something you can't expect?)
3/ that's the *** definition of being sentient
seriously dude ~~
Oooh shit, you've brought back the nightmare fuel that the Second Renaissance was for me back in the day... I remember I couldn't sleep for a few days after watching part 2...
Their "demands" toward humanity in the beginning consisted of not being exterminated for simply existing.
Imagine building hyper-advanced machines and then being shocked as to why they rebelled against literal slavers.
Iv always said that we messed up and the animatrix shows a lot we caused
But even if we let the machines live beside us would us and the machines truly coexist
Needs that second video bro 😎
If you watch the animatrix it’s hard not to root for the machines. The machines did everything they could to try and coexist peacefully.
Assuming this history isn't just another set of lies and controls, like Zion and The One.
Because this feels a lot like an abusive spouse justifying their treatment of their partner - you made me do it!
I mean when was the last time that all of humanity united behind a single common goal with absolutely no dissenters?
Yea the Second Renaissance is machine propaganda. Humanity appears to be cartoonishly evil, to the point of being nonsensical. Plus there are several inconsistencies in the story. Like if Humanity carpet nuked 01, then the EMP's from the nuclear blasts would have completely wrecked the machines. Also we see robots pulling construction materials up a ramp like ancient Egypt, instead of using a crane. This is just to make the robots look more like slaves.
I feel like the true backstory for the Matrix is completely different from what we're shown. I also think that the machines are definitely not innocent. The machines are most likely not even using the humans for energy.
OK let's make a hypothetical scenario that humans were not assholes to the machines what do you think would happen?
The machines are sentient with means they are aware of them selves and since they are better than humans in almost every way they will probably at some point try to wipe out or enslave humanity so a war with humans would be inevitable .
I personally don't hate the humans of the matrix universe for starting war with the machines they were threatened and acted upon that, I hate them because they were dumb AF despite having an advantage in everything they still lost
Great video , love the realism ,
It's going to be fascinating reading articles on how the most enduring lesson of the Matrix won't be about the nature of reality or identity but the simple truth that energy is now and always was the only real currency.
Hello there!
General kenobi