Tuning a piano using pure 19ths.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2014
- I use a P4 window when tuning notes above the temperament. It allows me to get much higher accuracy, and consistency, and also experiment with different treble temperaments (octave sizes).
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Thanks for the video Mark!
That makes perfect sense and sounds like a grand... Thanks
Pure 19th tuning is part of my Go APE approach for faster, more accurate tunings. See howtotunepianos.com/go-ape-introduction/
You have really good ears/hearing.
Impressive
I teach this method at the InternationalPianoTechniciansSchool.com
HI Mark, I am really enjoying your channel and thank you for the great work! I have a 1980s Bosendorfer and the manufacturers keep saying it should be tuned in perfect octaves... does that simply mean "no stretching" at all? and if so... why do you think they suggest that? Thank you!
Luke Corradine I couldn't guess what they are referring to. All pianos are stretched when tuned to sound good.
I live that you play Claire de Lune as a test. Those big chords demand a “stretched” tuning in that they must lay comfortably on top of the notes below as still as possible. I’m not much of a pianist myself. It I always use this song as a test. Perhaps that’s why I gravitated toward stretched tubings from the beginning.
Thank you for taking the time to explain
You're welcome.
I'm new to tuning, looks much more complex than I had initially thought. What is 'stretching' in this context?
Is it an unequal temperament?
Depends on how the temperament is tuned. You can have equal temperament with pure 19ths, and unequal temperament with pure 19ths. The pure 19ths are just mirroring what is in the temperament.
Kind of. This isn't what most would call equal temperament because the octaves aren't pure 1:2 frequency ratios, but wider, and neither are semitones 100 cents wide.
Still, every semitone is the same size. I wouldn't have a problem calling this equal tempered.
I think there are several layers on top of each other.
1. The base is in math (Pythagoras, size of octave, temperament )
2. On top of that is inharmonicity (depends of particular piano how overtones work)
3. On top of that is there is harmonicity based on 19th overtone, which does the stretching, in addition to physics of the piano.
4. Then there is additional layer of unequal temperament, which can be added same way like previous layers.
In my opinion the most important thing is to get overtones match nicely. This 19ths sounds a good alternative for pure fifths. Pure fifths has that nice feature that it also makes octaves match, if you stretch 1203,35 cents per octave.
I would have loved to hear also the lower tones of this piano.
so in any stretched tuning, the octaves in the higher and lower ranges wont be pure anymore?
It depends. An octave can be different sizes at the same time.
Funny how experiments can drive us far ... ;) That is how we search and search, changing from time to time. There is hopefully a simpler answer I believe. Regards
Ciao Isaac. I agree with you. Funny thing is, 2 years later, I am still tuning this way, with better results, and clearer explanations for my students.
great video, could you turn up your voice microphone in your next videos?
Check out more videos with better production at howtotunepianos.com
For most pianos that I tune, I can get very similar results by simply picking a “happy, slow roll” between wide octaves and nearly perfect but narrow 5ths. For me, this is a much faster way to tune the every day piano
Justin O'Neil I respect that.
For me, the P19 method along with other techniques developed in my Go APE Piano Tuning System, took me two years full time to get good at.
In that time I was slower and my tunings were not as good.
Since then, my tunings are faster and more accurate than they were before.
It's not for everyone but I share elements of the method for others interest and for the possibility that some may take something from it make it their own.
Mark Cerisano this is definitely a great method to get a great tuning. Thank you for sharing your experiences with everyone. It makes for a more in tune world.