The twisted flat steel (into a spiral) is put INSIDE the pipes to add more surface area and aid condensation. In your case, the steel pipes that run around the shop will really do all the cooling/condensing you need. The dryer in the video is just a condensed version of what happens in most workshops with plumbed air. The plumbed steel pipes are high up out of the way and have various droppers at work stations throughout the shop, each of which has a water trap/reservoir and an air outlet/tap above it. The overall plumbing is sloped slightly to move any water in the horizontal main supply pipes. My father was a motor mechanic and that is how all workshops are set up. Of course if you want to go better than dew point temperature separation, then you will need refrigeration and desiccant features. I was getting water streaming out of my air tools, but since adding the pipe dryer/condenser I don't have any issues at all. Cheers Rob
Glad you found it useful Fred. It works great in our climate and isn't bulky if you run it up the wall like I have. Not really portable, but as I never move the compressor, it's not an issue. Works much the same way as a car or fridge air condensor radiator, which can also be used in much the same way. Cheers Rob.
I drained the complete air system today - first time for about 6 months and was all set to do a video of what came out. Unfortunately I had a few camera issues, so I will have to do it another day. Basically about two litres of oily water came out of the compressor tank, a quarter of a cup came out of the first upright steel pipe with the twisted baffle insert, nothing came out of the second pipe, nothing was in the Schrader main filter regulator, and nothing was in my bench mounted Festo trap/regulator oiler combo. That is the progression of air flow through my system. Obviously the first steel pipe is catching most of the moisture from the tank. Even more obvious is that the pipe trap works. I will keep this in the list of future videos to do. Cheers Rob
Just wanted to say thanks for this video! We were having issues with moisture in our sand blaster. We built a system based on yours out of black iron pipe yesterday and it's working great. We made sure to twist up some strips of steel sheet to act as a baffle inside the larger pipe. Cheers!
Great point on adding the metal strip to the first pipe. Anything that will increase the surface area that the air is exposed to or change its direction will help in cooling the air and removing the moisture.
Would this be best: Compressor head > check valve > pipe > separator > tank? Just thinking it would help keep moisture out of tank as well as keeping the tank cooler which keeps the motor and compressor cooler as well.
Thanks for the vid. I appreciate your common-sense engineering, and for a lot of garage shops i think it would knock out 90% maybe 99% of vapor....however, in hot climates (like Florida) I think it may be less effective. You would be amazed at the vapor in a high temp, high humidity environment. Yet I will probably still modify my air pipe layout anyway, based on your video, so thanks for sharing.
A remote drier between the compressor head and the main tank makes a lot of sense, particularly on a fixed unit. It would be the most effective set up. However, regular draining of the tank should virtually stop rust through. My compressor is 40 - 50 years old and still going strong. Rob
My verticals above the connection points are about 6 foot (2 metres) so your rig should work fine. Best to put a spiral strip of steel down the centre of the first pipe to give it more effect. Easy to twist up a strip of light galvanised steel. To get longer pipes you could run them across the wall on an angle, but I doubt it's necessary. Cheers Rob.
Nice Job on the video. I thought your review was simple, relaxing and very understandable. As an engineer, your explanation made a lots of sense and help simplify the entire concept in my mind. Thanks very much!
Just a note for anyone who wants to use the horizontal sloping manifold setup. ALWAYS take your airdrops off the TOP of the pipe. It is amazing how much water accumulates in the manifold.
Water vapour mainly comes a nuisance when it condenses out out the air and forms droplets as it changes from a compressed state. A dryer before the compressor is possible, but it would need to be a desiccant or refrigerator type.
Some compressors do have a rudimentary cooling radiator between the compressor tank and the pump, but generally no trap or drain facility. Unless forced air cooled, this would soon overheat and lose any condensing effect. Most compressors rely on the majority of water vapour condensing out in the cold steel tank, which is the first major cooling mass encountered. I don't have a problem with moisture in the tank as it is generally oil contaminated, anti rust in effect, and should be drained regularly to avoid oil/water separation. The compressor will generate the same amount of heat regardless of the rest of the setup, as that's an inescapable physical result of air compression. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the tip xynuda. I hadn't thought about it but I am going to make that extra run before I put the proper filter on. Not sure why these other guys are making such a big deal here. From the size of your compressor and mine and probably 99% of the compressors in use they aren't running 24/7 in 100 degree ambient temperature. Screw them, this is a great idea for a small shop. Thanks a lot.
***** Hi Rick. The principle is the same as used in all small motor garages for their compressed air. My father was a mechanic all his life and I've been in and seen plenty of workshops over the years, and they don't run refrigerated coolers etc. If you were spray painting as a profession, it woud be different,and you woud need to outlay cash and get refrigerated etc, but that's not your average workshop :) The pipes definitely work, and will make your existing filter work properly. Cheers Rob
xynudu General rule of thumb is that a conventinal dryer/water trap should be at least two meters from the air tank outlet to allow the air charge to cool for the trap to do it's work. In reality most small compressor setups are no where near that length. Rob
I like your system. I especially like the fact you just used some pipe that was lying around to do it. I really need a good dryer for my Everlast plasma cutter. The air in my area is quite humid.
Please note that this system is not meant to be a replacement for a desiccant or refrigerated system. It can only remove water vapour to the same level as a good quality conventional air dryer/water trap, however it will allow the conventional trap to work correctly, and reduce the amount of water it collects. Cheers Rob.
water is still collecting in your tank though.hook the drier up to the head and cool it before it goes into the tank.i just scraped a tank that had cooler and filter after the tank.owner never realized they were collecting water in the tank.rusted though .tried to weld it but sucked at welding.sick of weld grind weld grind,weld grind weld test ,leaked ,trashed it.new compressor air will be cooled before the tank this time.try it ,huge difference.huge.
I really like this design and am scheming to build a version based on your ideas for my new compressor. At 4:40 you mentioned a piece of twisted steel to help the process. I don't understand. will you please give more information on what you were explaining.
+AskWoodMan If you cut a long piece of galvanised steel sheeting into a strip which will fit inside the water pipe, it will increase the surface area and aid condensation a bit. I put a full length twist in mine (like a drill) to add air resistance. Just clamp one end in the vice and twist the other end with locking pliers until you get the desired number of twist flutes. Cheers Rob
+xynudu Thanks Rob. I understand now what you were referring to . I just got an 80gall Ingersoll Rand compressor in a sweet deal. What is your opinion on pipe diameter and number of columns and height of columns if you were designing for this size? Was there a reason you did not place your chiller between your pump and storage tank? I live in Texas and from guys I chat with in your part of Australia we have very similar climates. Hot summers. Mild winters. Thanks for your time. As I get closer to fabricating my setup may I message you with my email so I can send you drawings and pics to get your input?
+AskWoodMan If you put the intercooler between the pump and the tank, you will have to use large diameter pipe all the way through to avoid choking the compressor pump outlet. Once you do that,the unit generally isn't portable any more as you need fixed couplings. Also, most compressors rely on the tank being the main heat exchanger, and don't have an intercooler first, due to the large amount of heat it would have to deal with. I have two columns of standard water pipe on mine and most water is condensed out in the first column. Hope this helps. Cheers Rob
Well, I'm about to find out how well this works. I've already bought the components. I've picked some up, and am waiting on the others to be delivered. I have to say, that it's not all that "cheap" when you don't already have the pipe laying around. Mine is costing roughly $230 (and I haven't actually bought the mounting hardware yet). My shop has 14' foot walls, so I can build a tall one. My compressor is a new 60 gallon upright. I'm going with a schedule 40 1-1/4" galvanized system. I read the warning against galvanized pipe in the link. But it's too late for that, I already bought everything, lol. Plus, I'm pretty sure that was galvanized pipe in the video. I'm putting 10 foot joints above the tee, and 18 inch joints below. Both runs will be the same, and have brass ball valves (with nifty handles) for the drains. The hardest part to find were the tees. They are 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 x 1/2". I could've used a standard tee with a bunch of reducing bushings to get down to 1/2". But that wouldn't have been as neat, and would have introduced more connections to worry about leaking. I also have a good ole tube & fin condenser from a 91 Chevy Caprice. I don't intend to use it in the system, unless I have to. The most demanding use of the system that I foresee, will be sandblasting. I'll try to report back with the results.
Hi Dale, it all costs money, but you can generally buy salvage pipe if you look around. Galvanized pipe should be quite OK. That's what they use in most garage workshops I've seen. My father was a motor mechanic and that's what they used in his shop. They had a water trap below each outlet to catch the condensate. Worked fine. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu I finished my dryer assembly this holiday weekend. I kept all my receipts and made a spreadsheet to track the cost of the project. It was more than I thought... around $310 to $325 (depending on where you stop counting). My upright compressor only had a 3/8" NPT outlet. So I bought a drill/tap set and increased it to 1/2". Since one of the things that I will be doing is flushing auto ac components, I didn't want the the flow restricted. Also, I did not put a baffle inside, I just ran straight pipe. The stated cost does include a filter/regulator on the "out" side of the dryer. It also includes a 1/2" hydraulic line between the tank and dryer. In fact, it includes everything from the tank outlet to the quick connect where the hose plugs in. When I made the spreadsheet, it exposed just how many items went into making the assembly (more than a person would think). I tested it's drying ability by running air through a blow gun for about 30 to 40 minutes. Aiming the nozzle at a piece of cardboard, you could see that not one drop of moisture made it through. The test was during a pretty cool night, but the dew was heavy. I'll be interested to see how it does on a really hot day. Sorry for such a detailed post here. But this is the video that originally inspired me (years ago) to do this. I finally got it done! As far as the cost... it was totally worth it.
Hi Dale, Glad you were happy with the result. It definitely works very well and is basically what garage workshops use but more compact. Before I used this my air tools were streaming water at the exhaust - none at all now, regardless of temperature, Cheers Rob
I am a sparky that has put my biz on hold due to Covid-a9. Was looking to buy a dryer today but was put off by the cost and thought I'd see if you had any idea's first. Thank you. Would like to install an automatic drain on the pipe though.
Hi, thanks for your video. Can you tell me about how much vertical pipe you used. I have only 8 foot ceilings in the garage and wondered if it would be enough or I could go up into the attic but was wondering if it may work with 2 6 foot runs with a foot or so below the t for the water collection, thanks for your help in advance.
What are your thoughts on putting a second pipe system before the air hits the tank from the compressor? Would that reduce all that water that drained out of the tank?
+JWB671 Yes, that will work. People do it that way. You would have to use the same or larger internal diameter pipe so as not to restrict the compressor output, and it makes the setup non portable. It will not remove all moisture from the tank. As the air is hot coming out of the pump, the effectiveness will be reduced as the radiator/intercooler has to work a lot harder and will loose efficiency as it slowly heats up. I can't see any advantage, as you still have to drain the tank. Cheers Rob
I need to make a video of my setup. I used a flat rectangular condenser coil off an old HVAC system that i piped in off the compressor output lines before it fills the tank and put a condensation removal filter at the output of the coil so when the air passes through the coil the fan from the compressor cools the air and the condensation drops out of suspension and goes into the filter where it accumulates and keeps most of the condensation out of the tank. Both the drain from the tank and the filter are plumbed to an auto drain that dumps the water when the compressor cycles on. I saw that on commercial compressors they used a radiator to do exactly what I am doing which prompted the idea and it works well and doesn't require any extra electricity like a refrigerated air dryer does.
+Gregarious Antithesis Sounds good. I considered doing something similar, but didn't have suitably large diameter tubing condenser, and I wanted it to be portable. Catching the water before the tank is OK, but you still need to drain off the bottom of the tank regardless, as some will get through given the warm air stream the condenser is operating in. Refrigerated condensers are better, as they take out moisture below the ambient air temperature level, so professional spray painters use them. Cheers Rob
Here's a link to an informative web page which shows how this system works, and gives an overview of a full system layout in a commercial workshop. www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp
The key word is reduce or minimize Not to eliminate There is really no difference in that particular layout In the link that you sent me I believe the same thing could be accomplished with a belt guard after cooler What makes that whole system work is that toilet paper canister It's a cheap mans air dryer you find it in a lot of auto body shops four point of use filtration I'm not trying to be an asshole or a troublemaker but I've been doing this line of work for almost 35 years. Why do you think they make refrigerated And desiccant Compressed air dryers?
ROTARYCOMPTECH I never claimed it "eliminated" water vapour. I said it stopped water streaming out of air tools. Also this is a home hobby channel if you hadn't noticed - it's a cheap fix for low volume use. I can't see many backyarders rushing out to buy a $$$$ refrigerated system. I think you've had your say on the subject. Cheers Rob
xynudu Rob, Rotarycompguy merely wants to show he's got brains. Please remember song from Pink Floyd Another brick in the wall...."His fat and psychopathic wife thrashes him within inches of his life." So, he comes here to feel important. Cheers.
Where could I buy the taps to go on the ends of pipes? Also would it be necessary to trap moisture if using water based epoxy undercoat sprayed with a gel coat gun and spraying water based polyurethane 2 pac paint? Thanks.
+John Jacey Hi John. Local hardware store should have something - can be any sort of air tight tap (ball, screw in brass). I am no expert on painting, but I expect you should be using clean, dry air with any type of paint, otherwise the coat will be marked by droplets of water hitting the job. This would include water based auto paint. Cheers Rob
I have 15 HP air compressor, will the system take it?, how it I put the bottom halves of the pipes in the water, so that it could cool down the pipes, which improve the condensation. Thanks.
dwi hermanto The system as shown is designed for a small workshop, but the principle is taken/copied from the system used in much larger motor garages where air is plumbed all around the shop to multiple take off points, each with a water trap. So compressor size is really not an issue provided there is enough mass and cooling capacity in the air distribution system. Running the air through a water cooled heat exchanger as you suggest could work, although unlike air cooling of steel pipe, a water based heat exchanger would need water cycling to avoid it getting too warm and rising beyond dew point. Cheers Rob
That little touch up spraygun, did you find a source of paint containers for it, years ago CIG used to sell small containers with red lids but they have been discontinued.
I know the ones you mention. I have a couple with red screw caps. I've no idea what's available these days. Mine still work so I've not looked. It's a nice little gun. I think these were originally Arnold Devllbiss. Maybe they have pots for them. Cheers Rob
The 1 I had on my gun that broke when I tried to unscrew it so I grabbed for the spare 1 I had put away and when I tried to unscrew the lid the thing just disintegrated in my hands.
Bondovian Steel pipe has more mass and takes a lot of BTHU to change it's temperature. Copper is more thermally conductive, but has much less mass, so unless it has radiating fins (as in a car condenser radiator) to dump off the heat I doubt it would work as well. I've not tried it. Cheers Rob.
Yes copper works very well most at homes ones use copper. You don't have to stop with two runs. You can make as many up and down runs as you want. We have the systems be is talking about at the shop in at. But we used schedule 80 PVC. The only one that has issues is the first two drops that are about 30 feet from the air compressor. By the time it's to me at the paint booth it's about 200ftrun has gone through water trap. 3 drops likes this and then 100ft underground run. Comes up to my booth has its final drop down then a final air water seperator. I never have a drop of water in it. I have the driest air of the shop. My line is the one that won't ruin the impact. The line the connectsto mine before the booth is the worst since it's lower all the left over water that can't make it mine goes there. So they just have to use my line. And the mechanics line isn't bad. It's separated from the compressor goes up and down the into their regulator and seperstor then goes back up and down to their seperstr stations and it's fine.. it's only the short run by the welding shop that has issues. So I don't recommend PVC unless you have a long run. Then it had time to cool off.
Eric Lavoie I used 3/4 and 1 " water pipe. The more mass the better for heat absorption. I just used what I had. The guy I got the idea from used some much bigger diameter pipe as a single stage condenser, but I made my double section. Most water condenses out in the first pipe. Rob
Thanks for this upload. What an perfect idea. Must try doing this when i build my workshop. There is a question i liled to ask in the video. Am i right the airline is going into the thin pipe then out of the large pipe. Or is it the other way around. Any chance i could send you an email. Privately. Thanks mark.
Mark Grevatt It doesn't really matter, but I have it going into big, then small. As most moisture comes out in the first pipe, it's best to use a large one to get a better low pressure area. It also allows space to put a twisted steel baffle in it to aid condensation/surface area. Yes, you can email me at gloaming_agnet@hotmail.com
You are talking about extreme conditions. Check out your local garage workshop and see if they have a refrigerated drier - very unlikely. They rely on a cold metal plumbing system, same as this.
That can't possibly work in a 80% duty cycle or in a 100 f ambient condition. Why do you think they make refrigerated compressed air dryers ? it;s not just that easy
This site gives excellent/detailed information on this subject, and the relative moisture content of compressed air for a given temperature range: www.energyrating.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/Energy_Rating_Documents/Library/Industrial_Equipment/Air_Compressors/aircomp-guide3.pdf
+nitrosilvia I recently saw a video showing how the same system was used in a horizontal configuration to condense out water for the large compressed air systems used to power oil field pumps (which had been using steam previously). So the idea has been around for a long time. Cheers Rob
Your better off with a refrigerated compressed air dryer, that arrangement you have come up with will only work for a short period of time until the air receiver gets up to temperature, also your relying on a rather low ambient temperature to make it all work, I would like to see an arrangement like yours work on a 100 HP compressor running 24/7in a 100F ambient 95% RH. What Iam getting a if it was that easy to dry compressed air they wouldn't manufacture refrigerated and desiccant compressed air dryers
ROTARYCOMPTECH It works exactly the same way as the air system in most small vehicle work shops. The piping is the condenser. It's not designed for a 100 HP compressor. Rob
xynudu I have been in this field for over 25 years and never seen such a arrangement of pipes plumbed in such a manor.. forget about the 100 PH compressor. This set up can't possibly work in a high ambient continuous run operation. The only way to adequately remove condensate from compressed air is either cool it down just above freezing or collect it in a dual tower regenerative desiccant dryer
ROTARYCOMPTECH I could prove you wrong with a heat gun buddy. The temperature drop for this little compressor[which is what we are discussing] Not a commercial setup is sufficient. I've make corn licker and my family has been condensing longer than you've been alive. This Englishman's system is cheap and effective. And since I have worked in thermodynamics as a profession I have dealt with engineers who scratch their head and ass and say 'That's impossible' Real world is not always as 'designed.' Good job Mate.
Aye Bee The whole system is relying on a rather low ambient temp and a light duty cycle. Try to achieve the same results in a 85F+ ambient with a 75% duty cycle it won't work and that's a fact
Actually, pipe diameter does make a difference. As a gas (in this case air) expands, it cools. Therefore you want the condenser pipe to be a larger diameter than the pipe that leads into it.
Yes. That's why I feed from small into larger through my pipe system. Every time water vapour passes to a lower pressure (larger) area, condensation occurs. Basic physics, Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu But when you reduce back down to smaller diameters, you'll then be re-compressing the air, so won't it be trying to pull moisture back into that higher pressure air?
Rob are you still around.. I saw this years ago, and always remembered it, and I have shared this with many. I am building a new shop and THIS TIME I intend to do this. I plan on putting my upright compressor up off the ground as well 12 inches because I'm tired of laying on the floor trying to open the damned pet cock, then I also can put a bucket under it.
Hi Brent, I'm still here ;) The twisted flat steel (into a spiral) is put INSIDE the pipes to add more surface area and aid condensation. In your case, the steel pipes that run around the shop will really do all the cooling/condensing you need. The dryer in the video is just a condensed version of what happens in most workshops with plumbed air. The plumbed steel pipes are high up out of the way and have various droppers at work stations throughout the shop, each of which has a water trap/reservoir and an air outlet/tap above it. The overall plumbing is sloped slightly to move any water in the horizontal main supply pipes. My father was a motor mechanic and that is how all workshops are set up. Of course if you want to go better than dew point temperature separation, then you will need refrigeration and desiccant features. I was getting water streaming out of my air tools, but since adding the pipe dryer/condenser I don't have any issues at all. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu My current shop has steel pipe all through it and it is kept at a constant 70 degrees year round and picks up water like a bitch. We do drain the drops every day. So I plan to go ahead and do your method back by the compressor as well. After I wrote to you I FIGURED OUT that it went inside by reading some of your other posts.... THANK YOU you have great videos. Do you think your method will work to help keep some of the water out of the metal pipes around the shop?
Hi Brent, The rig/intercooler will definitely trap most moisture able to be removed at dew point before it hits the main shop piping. I never have to empty the two water traps I have downstream from the unit, so the same should apply to you. Obviously water will condense out more at lower temperatures, but the converse applies in that water will not tend to condense out of air tools at higher dew point air temperatures as it is held in suspension more. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu My "new shop" I will not keep at 70 degrees all the time, my current shop it was a requirement year round AND to control the humidity. Anything to help... I saw your video many years ago and loved it... I HOPED to find it again, I told lots of guys about it... I just never "did it." So when I went "a hunting" last week... THERE YOU WERE. I couldn't quite remember your entire method, or borrowed method, etc. etc. so I was happy to find it, and GLAD to make your acquaintance. We are only as smart as what "we know."
The twisted flat steel (into a spiral) is put INSIDE the pipes to add more surface area and aid condensation. In your case, the steel pipes that run around the shop will really do all the cooling/condensing you need.
The dryer in the video is just a condensed version of what happens in most workshops with plumbed air. The plumbed steel pipes are high up out of the way and have various droppers at work stations throughout the shop, each of which has a water trap/reservoir and an air outlet/tap above it.
The overall plumbing is sloped slightly to move any water in the horizontal main supply pipes. My father was a motor mechanic and that is how all workshops are set up.
Of course if you want to go better than dew point temperature separation, then you will need refrigeration and desiccant features.
I was getting water streaming out of my air tools, but since adding the pipe dryer/condenser I don't have any issues at all.
Cheers Rob
Glad you found it useful Fred. It works great in our climate and isn't bulky if you run it up the wall like I have. Not really portable, but as I never move the compressor, it's not an issue. Works much the same way as a car or fridge air condensor radiator, which can also be used in much the same way. Cheers Rob.
I drained the complete air system today - first time for about 6 months and was all set to do a video of what came out. Unfortunately I had a few camera issues, so I will have to do it another day. Basically about two litres of oily water came out of the compressor tank, a quarter of a cup came out of the first upright steel pipe with the twisted baffle insert, nothing came out of the second pipe, nothing was in the Schrader main filter regulator, and nothing was in my bench mounted Festo trap/regulator oiler combo. That is the progression of air flow through my system. Obviously the first steel pipe is catching most of the moisture from the tank. Even more obvious is that the pipe trap works. I will keep this in the list of future videos to do. Cheers Rob
Just wanted to say thanks for this video! We were having issues with moisture in our sand blaster. We built a system based on yours out of black iron pipe yesterday and it's working great. We made sure to twist up some strips of steel sheet to act as a baffle inside the larger pipe.
Cheers!
mpsinclair Glad to hear the positive feed back. It definitely works in getting the moisture level down. And it's cheap. Cheers Rob
Great point on adding the metal strip to the first pipe. Anything that will increase the surface area that the air is exposed to or change its direction will help in cooling the air and removing the moisture.
Would this be best: Compressor head > check valve > pipe > separator > tank? Just thinking it would help keep moisture out of tank as well as keeping the tank cooler which keeps the motor and compressor cooler as well.
Thanks for the vid. I appreciate your common-sense engineering, and for a lot of garage shops i think it would knock out 90% maybe 99% of vapor....however, in hot climates (like Florida) I think it may be less effective. You would be amazed at the vapor in a high temp, high humidity environment. Yet I will probably still modify my air pipe layout anyway, based on your video, so thanks for sharing.
A remote drier between the compressor head and the main tank makes a lot of sense, particularly on a fixed unit. It would be the most effective set up. However, regular draining of the tank should virtually stop rust through. My compressor is 40 - 50 years old and still going strong. Rob
My verticals above the connection points are about 6 foot (2 metres) so your rig should work fine. Best to put a spiral strip of steel down the centre of the first pipe to give it more effect. Easy to twist up a strip of light galvanised steel. To get longer pipes you could run them across the wall on an angle, but I doubt it's necessary. Cheers Rob.
Nice Job on the video. I thought your review was simple, relaxing and very understandable. As an engineer, your explanation made a lots of sense and help simplify the entire concept in my mind. Thanks very much!
Just a note for anyone who wants to use the horizontal sloping manifold setup.
ALWAYS take your airdrops off the TOP of the pipe.
It is amazing how much water accumulates in the manifold.
Water vapour mainly comes a nuisance when it condenses out out the air and forms droplets as it changes from a compressed state. A dryer before the compressor is possible, but it would need to be a desiccant or refrigerator type.
The fact that you made that from scrap pipe is of course impressive...
Some compressors do have a rudimentary cooling radiator between the compressor tank and the pump, but generally no trap or drain facility. Unless forced air cooled, this would soon overheat and lose any condensing effect. Most compressors rely on the majority of water vapour condensing out in the cold steel tank, which is the first major cooling mass encountered. I don't have a problem with moisture in the tank as it is generally oil contaminated, anti rust in effect, and should be drained regularly to avoid oil/water separation. The compressor will generate the same amount of heat regardless of the rest of the setup, as that's an inescapable physical result of air compression. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the tip xynuda. I hadn't thought about it but I am going to make that extra run before I put the proper filter on. Not sure why these other guys are making such a big deal here. From the size of your compressor and mine and probably 99% of the compressors in use they aren't running 24/7 in 100 degree ambient temperature. Screw them, this is a great idea for a small shop. Thanks a lot.
***** Hi Rick. The principle is the same as used in all small motor garages for their compressed air. My father was a mechanic all his life and I've been in and seen plenty of workshops over the years, and they don't run refrigerated coolers etc. If you were spray painting as a profession, it woud be different,and you woud need to outlay cash and get refrigerated etc, but that's not your average workshop :) The pipes definitely work, and will make your existing filter work properly. Cheers Rob
xynudu General rule of thumb is that a conventinal dryer/water trap should be at least two meters from the air tank outlet to allow the air charge to cool for the trap to do it's work. In reality most small compressor setups are no where near that length. Rob
I like your system. I especially like the fact you just used some pipe that was lying around to do it. I really need a good dryer for my Everlast plasma cutter. The air in my area is quite humid.
Please note that this system is not meant to be a replacement for a desiccant or refrigerated system. It can only remove water vapour to the same level as a good quality conventional air dryer/water trap, however it will allow the conventional trap to work correctly, and reduce the amount of water it collects. Cheers Rob.
water is still collecting in your tank though.hook the drier up to the head and cool it before it goes into the tank.i just scraped a tank that had cooler and filter after the tank.owner never realized they were collecting water in the tank.rusted though .tried to weld it but sucked at welding.sick of weld grind weld grind,weld grind weld test ,leaked ,trashed it.new compressor air will be cooled before the tank this time.try it ,huge difference.huge.
I really like this design and am scheming to build a version based on your ideas for my new compressor. At 4:40 you mentioned a piece of twisted steel to help the process. I don't understand. will you please give more information on what you were explaining.
+AskWoodMan
If you cut a long piece of galvanised steel sheeting into a strip which will fit inside the water pipe, it will increase the surface area and aid condensation a bit.
I put a full length twist in mine (like a drill) to add air resistance. Just clamp one end in the vice and twist the other end with locking pliers until you get the desired number of twist flutes. Cheers Rob
+xynudu Thanks Rob. I understand now what you were referring to . I just got an 80gall Ingersoll Rand compressor in a sweet deal. What is your opinion on pipe diameter and number of columns and height of columns if you were designing for this size? Was there a reason you did not place your chiller between your pump and storage tank? I live in Texas and from guys I chat with in your part of Australia we have very similar climates. Hot summers. Mild winters. Thanks for your time. As I get closer to fabricating my setup may I message you with my email so I can send you drawings and pics to get your input?
+AskWoodMan
If you put the intercooler between the pump and the tank, you will have to use large diameter pipe all the way through to avoid choking the compressor pump outlet.
Once you do that,the unit generally isn't portable any more as you need fixed couplings.
Also, most compressors rely on the tank being the main heat exchanger, and don't have an intercooler first, due to the large amount of heat it would have to deal with.
I have two columns of standard water pipe on mine and most water is condensed out in the first column.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Rob
@@Xynudu Can I use aluminum strip twisted inside the water pipe ? Thanks
Very well done, simple explanation for a sometimes exploited idea. yes it is just that easy. thanks mate
Well, I'm about to find out how well this works. I've already bought the components. I've picked some up, and am waiting on the others to be delivered.
I have to say, that it's not all that "cheap" when you don't already have the pipe laying around. Mine is costing roughly $230 (and I haven't actually bought the mounting hardware yet).
My shop has 14' foot walls, so I can build a tall one. My compressor is a new 60 gallon upright.
I'm going with a schedule 40 1-1/4" galvanized system. I read the warning against galvanized pipe in the link. But it's too late for that, I already bought everything, lol. Plus, I'm pretty sure that was galvanized pipe in the video.
I'm putting 10 foot joints above the tee, and 18 inch joints below. Both runs will be the same, and have brass ball valves (with nifty handles) for the drains. The hardest part to find were the tees. They are 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 x 1/2". I could've used a standard tee with a bunch of reducing bushings to get down to 1/2". But that wouldn't have been as neat, and would have introduced more connections to worry about leaking.
I also have a good ole tube & fin condenser from a 91 Chevy Caprice. I don't intend to use it in the system, unless I have to.
The most demanding use of the system that I foresee, will be sandblasting. I'll try to report back with the results.
Hi Dale, it all costs money, but you can generally buy salvage pipe if you look around. Galvanized pipe should be quite OK. That's what they use in most garage workshops I've seen. My father was a motor mechanic and that's what they used in his shop. They had a water trap below each outlet to catch the condensate. Worked fine. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu I finished my dryer assembly this holiday weekend. I kept all my receipts and made a spreadsheet to track the cost of the project. It was more than I thought... around $310 to $325 (depending on where you stop counting).
My upright compressor only had a 3/8" NPT outlet. So I bought a drill/tap set and increased it to 1/2". Since one of the things that I will be doing is flushing auto ac components, I didn't want the the flow restricted. Also, I did not put a baffle inside, I just ran straight pipe.
The stated cost does include a filter/regulator on the "out" side of the dryer. It also includes a 1/2" hydraulic line between the tank and dryer. In fact, it includes everything from the tank outlet to the quick connect where the hose plugs in. When I made the spreadsheet, it exposed just how many items went into making the assembly (more than a person would think).
I tested it's drying ability by running air through a blow gun for about 30 to 40 minutes. Aiming the nozzle at a piece of cardboard, you could see that not one drop of moisture made it through. The test was during a pretty cool night, but the dew was heavy. I'll be interested to see how it does on a really hot day.
Sorry for such a detailed post here. But this is the video that originally inspired me (years ago) to do this. I finally got it done! As far as the cost... it was totally worth it.
Hi Dale, Glad you were happy with the result. It definitely works very well and is basically what garage workshops use but more compact. Before I used this my air tools were streaming water at the exhaust - none at all now, regardless of temperature, Cheers Rob
Wonderful video. I live in a very humid area and this would work perfectly. I will be building one.
thanks!
I am a sparky that has put my biz on hold due to Covid-a9. Was looking to buy a dryer today but was put off by the cost and thought I'd see if you had any idea's first. Thank you. Would like to install an automatic drain on the pipe though.
This works great for a dew point dryer. Anything better will have to use desiccant or refrigeration. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Turns out to be more expensive than a desiccant drier, but I had fun a few trips to Bunnings.
If you ever have to weld on an air compressor tank, always fill it will water as the oil vapours inside can explode. Rob
Great idea but would it better to filter the water vapor before it goes to the compressor? It doest do good even to the compressor probably.
Genius! And good presentation, too. Thanks, Mate.
Your welcome. I used to get water streaming from my air tools and it stopped that dead. Works great. Cheers Rob.
Hi, thanks for your video. Can you tell me about how much vertical pipe you used. I have only 8 foot ceilings in the garage and wondered if it would be enough or I could go up into the attic but was wondering if it may work with 2 6 foot runs with a foot or so below the t for the water collection, thanks for your help in advance.
What are your thoughts on putting a second pipe system before the air hits the tank from the compressor? Would that reduce all that water that drained out of the tank?
+JWB671
Yes, that will work. People do it that way.
You would have to use the same or larger internal diameter pipe so as not to restrict the compressor output, and it makes the setup non portable.
It will not remove all moisture from the tank.
As the air is hot coming out of the pump, the effectiveness will be reduced as the radiator/intercooler has to work a lot harder and will loose efficiency as it slowly heats up.
I can't see any advantage, as you still have to drain the tank.
Cheers Rob
If you needed better performance you could also paint the pipes matt black.
I need to make a video of my setup. I used a flat rectangular condenser coil off an old HVAC system that i piped in off the compressor output lines before it fills the tank and put a condensation removal filter at the output of the coil so when the air passes through the coil the fan from the compressor cools the air and the condensation drops out of suspension and goes into the filter where it accumulates and keeps most of the condensation out of the tank. Both the drain from the tank and the filter are plumbed to an auto drain that dumps the water when the compressor cycles on. I saw that on commercial compressors they used a radiator to do exactly what I am doing which prompted the idea and it works well and doesn't require any extra electricity like a refrigerated air dryer does.
+Gregarious Antithesis
Sounds good. I considered doing something similar, but didn't have suitably large diameter tubing condenser, and I wanted it to be portable.
Catching the water before the tank is OK, but you still need to drain off the bottom of the tank regardless, as some will get through given the warm air stream the condenser is operating in.
Refrigerated condensers are better, as they take out moisture below the ambient air temperature level, so professional spray painters use them.
Cheers Rob
Here's a link to an informative web page which shows how this system works, and gives an overview of a full system layout in a commercial workshop. www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp
Interestingly, they get a similar result to that provided by my system. Rob
Good job mate! See my reply to RotaryCompTech also below.
Real world is not always as 'designed.' Engineers so dislike practical gents. Good day sir!
The key word is reduce or minimize Not to eliminate There is really no difference in that particular layout In the link that you sent me I believe the same thing could be accomplished with a belt guard after cooler What makes that whole system work is that toilet paper canister It's a cheap mans air dryer you find it in a lot of auto body shops four point of use filtration I'm not trying to be an asshole or a troublemaker but I've been doing this line of work for almost 35 years. Why do you think they make refrigerated And desiccant Compressed air dryers?
ROTARYCOMPTECH I never claimed it "eliminated" water vapour. I said it stopped water streaming out of air tools. Also this is a home hobby channel if you hadn't noticed - it's a cheap fix for low volume use. I can't see many backyarders rushing out to buy a $$$$ refrigerated system. I think you've had your say on the subject. Cheers Rob
xynudu
Rob,
Rotarycompguy merely wants to show he's got brains. Please remember song from Pink Floyd Another brick in the wall...."His fat and psychopathic wife thrashes him within inches of his life." So, he comes here to feel important. Cheers.
Hi, can you tell me about how many feet of galvanized you have up/down the wall? thx
Column style stills for moonshine works the same way mate.
Where could I buy the taps to go on the ends of pipes?
Also would it be necessary to trap moisture if using water based epoxy undercoat sprayed with a gel coat gun and spraying water based polyurethane 2 pac paint?
Thanks.
+John Jacey Hi John.
Local hardware store should have something - can be any sort of air tight tap (ball, screw in brass).
I am no expert on painting, but I expect you should be using clean, dry air with any type of paint, otherwise the coat will be marked by droplets of water hitting the job. This would include water based auto paint.
Cheers Rob
I have 15 HP air compressor, will the system take it?, how it I put the bottom halves of the pipes in the water, so that it could cool down the pipes, which improve the condensation. Thanks.
dwi hermanto The system as shown is designed for a small workshop, but the principle is taken/copied from the system used in much larger motor garages where air is plumbed all around the shop to multiple take off points, each with a water trap. So compressor size is really not an issue provided there is enough mass and cooling capacity in the air distribution system. Running the air through a water cooled heat exchanger as you suggest could work, although unlike air cooling of steel pipe, a water based heat exchanger would need water cycling to avoid it getting too warm and rising beyond dew point. Cheers Rob
Thank you very much for the comment, Will try and advise the result
dwi hermanto Your welcome. Be sure to visit this web page regarding the system and the effect it can have: www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp
That little touch up spraygun, did you find a source of paint containers for it, years ago CIG used to sell small containers with red lids but they have been discontinued.
I know the ones you mention. I have a couple with red screw caps. I've no idea what's available these days. Mine still work so I've not looked. It's a nice little gun. I think these were originally Arnold Devllbiss. Maybe they have pots for them.
Cheers Rob
The 1 I had on my gun that broke when I tried to unscrew it so I grabbed for the spare 1 I had put away and when I tried to unscrew the lid the thing just disintegrated in my hands.
Typical plastic. Can't help on this one.
Would copper pipe be as effective as steel pipe?
Bondovian Steel pipe has more mass and takes a lot of BTHU to change it's temperature. Copper is more thermally conductive, but has much less mass, so unless it has radiating fins (as in a car condenser radiator) to dump off the heat I doubt it would work as well. I've not tried it. Cheers Rob.
Yes copper works very well most at homes ones use copper. You don't have to stop with two runs. You can make as many up and down runs as you want. We have the systems be is talking about at the shop in at. But we used schedule 80 PVC. The only one that has issues is the first two drops that are about 30 feet from the air compressor. By the time it's to me at the paint booth it's about 200ftrun has gone through water trap. 3 drops likes this and then 100ft underground run. Comes up to my booth has its final drop down then a final air water seperator. I never have a drop of water in it. I have the driest air of the shop. My line is the one that won't ruin the impact. The line the connectsto mine before the booth is the worst since it's lower all the left over water that can't make it mine goes there. So they just have to use my line. And the mechanics line isn't bad. It's separated from the compressor goes up and down the into their regulator and seperstor then goes back up and down to their seperstr stations and it's fine.. it's only the short run by the welding shop that has issues. So I don't recommend PVC unless you have a long run. Then it had time to cool off.
Great idea, thanks for sharing!
what size was your larger pipe 2" and the other one was 3/4" ?
Eric Lavoie I used 3/4 and 1 " water pipe. The more mass the better for heat absorption. I just used what I had. The guy I got the idea from used some much bigger diameter pipe as a single stage condenser, but I made my double section. Most water condenses out in the first pipe. Rob
thanks im going to try a 1 3/4 think it do better
Thanks for this upload. What an perfect idea. Must try doing this when i build my workshop. There is a question i liled to ask in the video. Am i right the airline is going into the thin pipe then out of the large pipe. Or is it the other way around. Any chance i could send you an email. Privately. Thanks mark.
Mark Grevatt It doesn't really matter, but I have it going into big, then small. As most moisture comes out in the first pipe, it's best to use a large one to get a better low pressure area. It also allows space to put a twisted steel baffle in it to aid condensation/surface area. Yes, you can email me at gloaming_agnet@hotmail.com
You are talking about extreme conditions. Check out your local garage workshop and see if they have a refrigerated drier - very unlikely. They rely on a cold metal plumbing system, same as this.
How is ur water trap working today
Frankie Jim Great. No problem what so ever.
How many times a day do u drain ur water traps
Frankie Jim I drain it about once every 6 months.
That can't possibly work in a 80% duty cycle or in a 100 f ambient condition.
Why do you think they make refrigerated compressed air dryers ? it;s not just that easy
You make more then two runs most have 6-10 up and down runs
Nice one thanks for posting
How high / tall is it
Brian Wynn About 10 - 12 foot.
xynudu Thanks mate thinking about building one in my shed
This site gives excellent/detailed information on this subject, and the relative moisture content of compressed air for a given temperature range: www.energyrating.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/Energy_Rating_Documents/Library/Industrial_Equipment/Air_Compressors/aircomp-guide3.pdf
Excellent Video. Genius
+nitrosilvia
I recently saw a video showing how the same system was used in a horizontal configuration to condense out water for the large compressed air systems used to power oil field pumps (which had been using steam previously).
So the idea has been around for a long time.
Cheers Rob
Hey cancel that last request about the height, you answered it already thanks.
Your better off with a refrigerated compressed air dryer, that arrangement you have come up with will only work for a short period of time until the air receiver gets up to temperature, also your relying
on a rather low ambient temperature to make it all work, I would like to see an arrangement like yours work on a 100 HP compressor running 24/7in a 100F ambient 95% RH. What Iam getting a if it was that easy to dry compressed air they wouldn't manufacture refrigerated and desiccant compressed air dryers
ROTARYCOMPTECH It works exactly the same way as the air system in most small vehicle work shops. The piping is the condenser. It's not designed for a 100 HP compressor. Rob
xynudu I have been in this field for over 25 years and never seen such a arrangement of pipes plumbed in such a manor.. forget about the 100 PH compressor. This set up can't possibly work in a high ambient continuous run operation. The only way to adequately remove condensate from compressed air is either cool it down just above freezing or collect it in a dual tower regenerative desiccant dryer
ROTARYCOMPTECH
I could prove you wrong with a heat gun buddy. The temperature drop for this little compressor[which is what we are discussing] Not a commercial setup is sufficient. I've make corn licker and my family has been condensing longer than you've been alive.
This Englishman's system is cheap and effective. And since I have worked in thermodynamics as a profession I have dealt with engineers who scratch their head and ass and say 'That's impossible' Real world is not always as 'designed.'
Good job Mate.
Aye Bee The whole system is relying on a rather low ambient temp and a light duty cycle. Try to achieve the same results in a 85F+ ambient with a 75% duty cycle it won't work
and that's a fact
ROTARYCOMPTECH www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp
Actually, pipe diameter does make a difference. As a gas (in this case air) expands, it cools. Therefore you want the condenser pipe to be a larger diameter than the pipe that leads into it.
Yes. That's why I feed from small into larger through my pipe system. Every time water vapour passes to a lower pressure (larger) area, condensation occurs. Basic physics, Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu But when you reduce back down to smaller diameters, you'll then be re-compressing the air, so won't it be trying to pull moisture back into that higher pressure air?
Rob are you still around.. I saw this years ago, and always remembered it, and I have shared this with many. I am building a new shop and THIS TIME I intend to do this. I plan on putting my upright compressor up off the ground as well 12 inches because I'm tired of laying on the floor trying to open the damned pet cock, then I also can put a bucket under it.
Hi Brent,
I'm still here ;)
The twisted flat steel (into a spiral) is put INSIDE the pipes to add more surface area and aid condensation. In your case, the steel pipes that run around the shop will really do all the cooling/condensing you need.
The dryer in the video is just a condensed version of what happens in most workshops with plumbed air. The plumbed steel pipes are high up out of the way and have various droppers at work stations throughout the shop, each of which has a water trap/reservoir and an air outlet/tap above it.
The overall plumbing is sloped slightly to move any water in the horizontal main supply pipes. My father was a motor mechanic and that is how all workshops are set up.
Of course if you want to go better than dew point temperature separation, then you will need refrigeration and
desiccant features.
I was getting water streaming out of my air tools, but since adding the pipe dryer/condenser I don't have any issues at all.
Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu My current shop has steel pipe all through it and it is kept at a constant 70 degrees year round and picks up water like a bitch. We do drain the drops every day. So I plan to go ahead and do your method back by the compressor as well. After I wrote to you I FIGURED OUT that it went inside by reading some of your other posts.... THANK YOU you have great videos. Do you think your method will work to help keep some of the water out of the metal pipes around the shop?
Hi Brent,
The rig/intercooler will definitely trap most moisture able to be removed at dew point before it hits the main shop piping. I never have to empty the two water traps I have downstream from the unit, so the same should apply to you.
Obviously water will condense out more at lower temperatures, but the converse applies in that water will not tend to condense out of air tools at higher dew point air temperatures as it is held in suspension more. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu So great to have guys like you with info, TH-cam is awesome as long as you can ignore the idiots Blessings to you..... Brent
@@Xynudu My "new shop" I will not keep at 70 degrees all the time, my current shop it was a requirement year round AND to control the humidity. Anything to help... I saw your video many years ago and loved it... I HOPED to find it again, I told lots of guys about it... I just never "did it." So when I went "a hunting" last week... THERE YOU WERE. I couldn't quite remember your entire method, or borrowed method, etc. etc. so I was happy to find it, and GLAD to make your acquaintance. We are only as smart as what "we know."