Can a great manipulator of music compete against a great creator of music? For example, an exceptionally brilliant conductor in a musical talent contest against a master multi instrumentalist.
9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2
No importa ese pequeño error ante tan excelente video. En Argentina le decimos fraseo. Abrazos. Gracias.
I was orchestra director for quite some time in my life. I can say that videos like this would've been very time saving when I was conductor, because people use to come to me !HOW DOES THE ORCHESTRA NOWS EVERY NOTE AND HOW YOU MOVE IN EVERY NOTE OF THE MUSIC?" which is a very common mistake and very common misconception about us, conductors. When it used to happen, I used to invite the person to a masterclass as a viewer to see that is not always about the notes, but always about EVERYTHING that music is. I miss the old times I used to lead a orchestra. Lol.
Definitely helps! I like this kind of video the most. The ones that go into the more technical/theoretical (or nerdy, if you will) side of conducting and explaining it. As a musician who's not familiar with conducting but very interested, this is the type of content I appreciate the most for sure
Great and informative video! I think it would be great as well to have a video analyzing how different conductors deviate from the standard in their individual way. There's so much variation between people when it comes to conducting compared to an instrumentalist
The best classical concert I ever attended was Vladimir Ashkenazy conducting the Cleveland Orchestra at Severance Hall, performing Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto #2. The famous Adagio movement’s climax was conducted the way it surely was meant to be heard….instead of the strings passionate fff performance interrupted by a lull between phrases, Ashkenazy has the supporting instruments really fill the time gap which gives the climax the emotional urgency it clearly was meant to have. If this doesn’t make sense to ypu, you have NOT heard Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto #2.
Who doesn’t love Carlos Kleiber? I get the impression he’s a conductor’s conductor. I’m sure a lot of these videos are of guest conductors. How much prep time do they get with the orchestra? A few days? Orchestras certainly have to adjust to a lot of styles. Nerdy is good.
9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4
Muchas gracias por su excelente video. Mi sobrina es directora y compositora en EEUU y me daba vergüenza preguntarle sus gestos. Abrazos desde Patagonia Argentina
Interesting topic, though all these gestures only take effect if there is eye contact (or at least peripheral vision) between the conductor and the musicians. In my concert experience, that is often not the case. So what conductors do with their hands and facial expressions rather signals what they would like to have played as it was agreed upon during rehearsals. On that note, there are funny moments available online, reactions from conductors such as Celibidache and Carlos Kleiber when their instructions had been ignored 😄
We definitely share a love for Kleiber as we found out under one of your earlier videos already ☺ I would like to see my very dear friend and teacher Mariss Jansons as an example and what you think of his technique. I always thought, that he was an artist of his own kind just in his movements, without even listening to what miracle he created ...
I still remember when I took a music class when I was around 10 years old they taught how conducting works, and regarding your section on patterns, they said you would move your arms in a prescribed geometric pattern, such as tracing a square shape. I'm sure this was just conducting for schoolchildren, but was interesting none the less.
Well, as it turns out, when you study conducting, there is actually a "prescribed" set of rules you're supposed to learn and follow. When you become a conductor, people develop their own conducting style besides what you're tought. So as you can see. Music schools will teach you the "correct" way, which is universal and all books teaches it the same way. When you become a conductor. You develop your own style and every body have their own way of conducting.😊
I really love your videos and content! I play in amateur orchestras and love the glimpse into the detail of conducting! Very interesting and engaging. Thank you!
I'm always very happy when I see that you've uploaded another video and this one was one of the best, if not THE best! 00:58 was a bit of a surprise as well, even though I have to admit I did not abide to it 😅
I remember in music school, taking conducting lessons. 1. Right hand hold the baton and keep tempo. 2. Left hand is for dynamics. 3. How to stand: only move upper body NOT whole body. 1a. Preparatory beat, cut off beat and all the beat patterns. 2a. Learn dynamics patterns and cues, which is also done with right hand. Take cues from musicians. Read learn and prepare by marking the score in different colors or use reduction. Follow the score! Master class from some famous guess to demonstrate conducting. Famous Guess; Forget everything you learned! Use your body and face, articulate and emphasize instruments entrances and dynamics with Both hands! Subdivide tempo so not to do every beat. Learn the score ahead of time so you don't have to look at it! During rehearsal, musicians are expected to learn how to read your conducting manners! It's NOT a democracy. You have the last word and no one is aloud to question your decisions and instructions. Enyone who raises their hand and is not a first chair is kicked out of the room! 😅
Excellent overview! As an amateur choir director for many years, I've done all these, but I have a specific question about orchestral conducting that I don't see in choral conducting. I often see conductors hitting the down beat or other beat indication, and the orchestra seems to _lag_ in following what _I_ think is the beat by some amount of time (sometimes quite a lot of time). What is happening there? In choral conducting, choirs always seem to be right on the conductor's beat.
0:02 was this from Solti's Bruckner 6th in Chicago (1st movement coda)? he looks quite mad conducting that in 4 when it's a faster part of an Allegro movement in Cut-Time
Oh my gosh! I'm showing this to my friends right now who literally think the definition of conducting is the Corny-gie hall from loony tunes. Lol I really respect the work you do on this channel, and I was wanting some thoughts on this question, If Beethoven were alive today, what advice would he give musicians and composers? or advice in any era really. Maybe so thoughts on Fidelio? Overtrue 3 is my favorite. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for your lovely channel, a breath of fresh air in a world as we know it.
Thank you for all the clear and informative explanations. There is one friendly little remark, though, which may or may not help. Your sentences are very well-constructed, lively and spontaneous but they tend to be on the long side. The long sentences would be perfectly fine if that there was some pause at their end. The cuts between the sentences just don't look right (to me) in an educational video. There's little time to process the information, and the viewer may feel breathless (I certainly did). Cutting out the pause is like what the opera house's chief accountant would request when he notices that the musicians don't work, but get paid, during rests and GPs. 🙂
thanks for watching! good question haha, no, I simply started looking for whatever came to my mind to see if I could find clear examples of different types of gestures and found a lot in those clips from the unfinished.
So for those who conduct.....what determines if a special gesture needs to be used for the performance, vs. something that is just required for a rehearsal or two?
Good question! a short answer would be that the conductor gives the information one beat or pulse ahead, less than that it would be too late for the musicians to react to the information sort of
@@howimettheopera After a great many years of observation, I have noted that the closer and more familiar the relationship between the conductor and the orchestra, the less lead time is needed. Great conductors seem to achieve a sort of symbiosis with the orchestra that gets both operating on the same wavelength, so to speak.
OMG you mentioned "in the left hand". Is a conductor's baton always held in the right hand? I am left handed and have always been disadvantaged (included trying to learn the violin). My left hand is my strength, emotion, control. Are there left handed, left handed conductors?
good question! yes, it normally is, and if I recall correctly my teacher was left handed but would hold the baton on the right; but that also meant his left hand is extremely expressive and accurate, which is a plus! (sometimes as beginner conductor is hard to have the left hand not just mirror the right etc). So I think it could work as an advantage... Having said that I am sure there are left handed conductors who maybe hold the baton on the left and it shouldn't be a problem for musicians. Ill pay attention to see if I see one :)
AURORA on the wall!!! I trust your taste implicitly 😉. Though to this orchestral violist all this footage of great maestri is a little like all my demons greeting me here on youtube as a friend 🙃
Great video. Would love to see you expand on this. Maybe a series of videos, each one on a different type of gesture (tempi, dynamics, articulation, and more) Thanks.
Wouldn't the musicians have practiced enough with the conductor at this point to not be needing these cues anymore? I can understand this being helpful during practice but isn't it just for show by the time they go live? Honest question.
Depends on many things. For example, everything to do with balance is very much so an "in the moment" type of thing, because it is constantly regulated by what the conductor is hearing which changes with every performance, and the position of the conductor is the best to take in the balance ( for example a trumpet player will hear its brass colleagues quite loudly but this may not be what the audience/conductor is hearing). Some things may be reinforcement, or perhaps it was discussed something should be rather short but it's sounding a bit longer... Cues to "bring an instrument in" can sometimes be redundant, but can also be quite important other times ( if an instrument has many bars of silence and the piece maybe is not very well known, or definitely in contemporary music). But also: very often nowadays there is not a lot of rehearsal, I have seen concerts prepared with just one general rehearsal; so in these cases the "live" gestures are even more important. This is just an attempt to explain some things but it is hard to convey through message, hope it helps!
The conductor may be giving us the same or similar cues as they did in rehearsal but we rely on the conductor in order to play together. In a chamber group we don’t need a conductor because we can see each other and use those visual cues. Within the full orchestra we need the person in the front where we can all see the same cues. We still watch each other as much as possible, but we mostly rely on listening to our colleagues and watching the conductor. Speaking as a professional symphony musician with 40 years experience.
Thank you! I agree with your point, my issue is with the videos that I feel comfortable using. I work in the industry, so sometimes using clips of colleagues I may work with (or already have), or similarly capturing videos that are officially uploaded by orchestras to their TH-cam channel without permission is tricky territory. This is why I use mostly old non-official clips, which sadly means there isn't as much variety as I'd like. Hopefully I can change this in the future.
Yeah unfortunately I got so distracted by all the jump cuts in the video that I couldn't really concentrate on what you were saying. I don't know what that's about but it's almost like I have to close my eyes and that's counterintuitive when I'm trying to look at gestures.
I am 69 and know NOTHING about music. We just went to a symphony and to another live Christmas concert I enjoy the mechanics and sound of music, but it seems to me, the conductor is just displaying the events of music, rather than making any type of instruction to the musicians? I assume the instruction is during rehearsals?
1:04 3:34 PHrasing and not Frasing, obviously. Having autocorrection (and a brain) constantly switching languages comes with side effects 😵💫
wondered if you'd catch that hehe
Can a great manipulator of music compete against a great creator of music? For example, an exceptionally brilliant conductor in a musical talent contest against a master multi instrumentalist.
No importa ese pequeño error ante tan excelente video. En Argentina le decimos fraseo. Abrazos. Gracias.
as a spanish dabbler and amateur linguist i find these sort of crosslanguage mistakes to be absolutely adorable lol
@UnshavenStatue what is a linguist?
I was orchestra director for quite some time in my life. I can say that videos like this would've been very time saving when I was conductor, because people use to come to me !HOW DOES THE ORCHESTRA NOWS EVERY NOTE AND HOW YOU MOVE IN EVERY NOTE OF THE MUSIC?" which is a very common mistake and very common misconception about us, conductors. When it used to happen, I used to invite the person to a masterclass as a viewer to see that is not always about the notes, but always about EVERYTHING that music is. I miss the old times I used to lead a orchestra. Lol.
I miss playing in my HS orchestra and that was decades ago
Kleiber is a joy both to watch and to listen to.
Subito Forte was my favorite.
Never heard any TH-camr ask so politely and tactfully to subscribe, so I did .😂 Lol!
Definitely helps! I like this kind of video the most. The ones that go into the more technical/theoretical (or nerdy, if you will) side of conducting and explaining it. As a musician who's not familiar with conducting but very interested, this is the type of content I appreciate the most for sure
Thanks for watching and for the comment, it helps to know you guys are interested in these aspects so I can think of more things to share with you all
Great and informative video!
I think it would be great as well to have a video analyzing how different conductors deviate from the standard in their individual way. There's so much variation between people when it comes to conducting compared to an instrumentalist
Lovely video! I look forward to more of your videos. :)
l found that extremely informative and helpful. Thank you.
The best classical concert I ever attended was Vladimir Ashkenazy conducting the Cleveland Orchestra at Severance Hall, performing Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto #2. The famous Adagio movement’s climax was conducted the way it surely was meant to be heard….instead of the strings passionate fff performance interrupted by a lull between phrases, Ashkenazy has the supporting instruments really fill the time gap which gives the climax the emotional urgency it clearly was meant to have. If this doesn’t make sense to ypu, you have NOT heard Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto #2.
Brilliant tutorial on how to read conducting gestures - thanks.
And lovely illustration of video presenting gestures - lol.
This is a welcome addition to discussions on music on this platform.
great video and very informative, thank you
Thank you for this video, it was informative and entertaining! I love how many music/video examples you include in your videos
Who doesn’t love Carlos Kleiber? I get the impression he’s a conductor’s conductor.
I’m sure a lot of these videos are of guest conductors. How much prep time do they get with the orchestra? A few days? Orchestras certainly have to adjust to a lot of styles. Nerdy is good.
Muchas gracias por su excelente video. Mi sobrina es directora y compositora en EEUU y me daba vergüenza preguntarle sus gestos. Abrazos desde Patagonia Argentina
Interesting topic, though all these gestures only take effect if there is eye contact (or at least peripheral vision) between the conductor and the musicians. In my concert experience, that is often not the case. So what conductors do with their hands and facial expressions rather signals what they would like to have played as it was agreed upon during rehearsals. On that note, there are funny moments available online, reactions from conductors such as Celibidache and Carlos Kleiber when their instructions had been ignored 😄
Yes it is a big help and thank you for sharing.
I am glad that it is! Thank you for watching
We definitely share a love for Kleiber as we found out under one of your earlier videos already ☺
I would like to see my very dear friend and teacher Mariss Jansons as an example and what you think of his technique. I always thought, that he was an artist of his own kind just in his movements, without even listening to what miracle he created ...
I love finding out what some of those movements are :D Although the subdivisions were really hard to distinguish for my amateur eye
I still remember when I took a music class when I was around 10 years old they taught how conducting works, and regarding your section on patterns, they said you would move your arms in a prescribed geometric pattern, such as tracing a square shape. I'm sure this was just conducting for schoolchildren, but was interesting none the less.
Well, as it turns out, when you study conducting, there is actually a "prescribed" set of rules you're supposed to learn and follow. When you become a conductor, people develop their own conducting style besides what you're tought. So as you can see. Music schools will teach you the "correct" way, which is universal and all books teaches it the same way. When you become a conductor. You develop your own style and every body have their own way of conducting.😊
Great content! Greetings from Brasil!
Thank you, saudações!
This is so funny ! I just commented on another video about this exact topic !!!
I really love your videos and content! I play in amateur orchestras and love the glimpse into the detail of conducting! Very interesting and engaging. Thank you!
Thank you for watching!
Same here. I enjoy your videos. You do a good job of explaining things. Thank you!
Very nice and clear, thanks!
I'm always very happy when I see that you've uploaded another video and this one was one of the best, if not THE best! 00:58 was a bit of a surprise as well, even though I have to admit I did not abide to it 😅
Thank you very much! Haha, it was just a way of laughing at myself at how many times I said the word "gestures" before the one minute mark.
I remember in music school, taking conducting lessons. 1. Right hand hold the baton and keep tempo. 2. Left hand is for dynamics. 3. How to stand: only move upper body NOT whole body. 1a. Preparatory beat, cut off beat and all the beat patterns. 2a. Learn dynamics patterns and cues, which is also done with right hand. Take cues from musicians.
Read learn and prepare by marking the score in different colors or use reduction. Follow the score!
Master class from some famous guess to demonstrate conducting.
Famous Guess; Forget everything you learned! Use your body and face, articulate and emphasize instruments entrances and dynamics with Both hands! Subdivide tempo so not to do every beat. Learn the score ahead of time so you don't have to look at it! During rehearsal, musicians are expected to learn how to read your conducting manners! It's NOT a democracy. You have the last word and no one is aloud to question your decisions and instructions. Enyone who raises their hand and is not a first chair is kicked out of the room! 😅
Really good! Techniques I've seen as orchestra member and audience.
Thank you!
Thank you, enjoyed video.
Excellent overview! As an amateur choir director for many years, I've done all these, but I have a specific question about orchestral conducting that I don't see in choral conducting. I often see conductors hitting the down beat or other beat indication, and the orchestra seems to _lag_ in following what _I_ think is the beat by some amount of time (sometimes quite a lot of time). What is happening there? In choral conducting, choirs always seem to be right on the conductor's beat.
Well done! 😁
Fascinating!!!!
That was very interesting. Thanks!
Great stuff! Thanks.
(“Phrasing,” BTW.)
0:02 was this from Solti's Bruckner 6th in Chicago (1st movement coda)? he looks quite mad conducting that in 4 when it's a faster part of an Allegro movement in Cut-Time
Thanks fir the education
Oh my gosh! I'm showing this to my friends right now who literally think the definition of conducting is the Corny-gie hall from loony tunes. Lol I really respect the work you do on this channel, and I was wanting some thoughts on this question, If Beethoven were alive today, what advice would he give musicians and composers? or advice in any era really. Maybe so thoughts on Fidelio? Overtrue 3 is my favorite. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for your lovely channel, a breath of fresh air in a world as we know it.
Carnegie Hall, ignorant !
this was great.
Thank you for all the clear and informative explanations. There is one friendly little remark, though, which may or may not help. Your sentences are very well-constructed, lively and spontaneous but they tend to be on the long side. The long sentences would be perfectly fine if that there was some pause at their end. The cuts between the sentences just don't look right (to me) in an educational video. There's little time to process the information, and the viewer may feel breathless (I certainly did). Cutting out the pause is like what the opera house's chief accountant would request when he notices that the musicians don't work, but get paid, during rests and GPs. 🙂
Me parece a mí o hay una foto de Charly García con la Negra Mercedes Sosa en el fondo? Y otra de Les Luthiers?? Excelente!!!
Si, buen ojo ;)
I recommend Leonard Bernstein's video on the topic: What does a conductor do?
This was great, thank you for making it!
Small question, is there a reason you mostly used clips from the Unfinished Symphony?
thanks for watching! good question haha, no, I simply started looking for whatever came to my mind to see if I could find clear examples of different types of gestures and found a lot in those clips from the unfinished.
So for those who conduct.....what determines if a special gesture needs to be used for the performance, vs. something that is just required for a rehearsal or two?
I was wondering how long ahead should a conductor giving gestures?
Good question! a short answer would be that the conductor gives the information one beat or pulse ahead, less than that it would be too late for the musicians to react to the information sort of
@@howimettheopera After a great many years of observation, I have noted that the closer and more familiar the relationship between the conductor and the orchestra, the less lead time is needed. Great conductors seem to achieve a sort of symbiosis with the orchestra that gets both operating on the same wavelength, so to speak.
OMG you mentioned "in the left hand". Is a conductor's baton always held in the right hand? I am left handed and have always been disadvantaged (included trying to learn the violin).
My left hand is my strength, emotion, control. Are there left handed, left handed conductors?
good question! yes, it normally is, and if I recall correctly my teacher was left handed but would hold the baton on the right; but that also meant his left hand is extremely expressive and accurate, which is a plus! (sometimes as beginner conductor is hard to have the left hand not just mirror the right etc). So I think it could work as an advantage... Having said that I am sure there are left handed conductors who maybe hold the baton on the left and it shouldn't be a problem for musicians. Ill pay attention to see if I see one :)
AURORA on the wall!!! I trust your taste implicitly 😉. Though to this orchestral violist all this footage of great maestri is a little like all my demons greeting me here on youtube as a friend 🙃
haha oh no, sorry that they make you want to Runaway ;)
Great video. Would love to see you expand on this. Maybe a series of videos, each one on a different type of gesture (tempi, dynamics, articulation, and more) Thanks.
Wouldn't the musicians have practiced enough with the conductor at this point to not be needing these cues anymore? I can understand this being helpful during practice but isn't it just for show by the time they go live? Honest question.
Depends on many things. For example, everything to do with balance is very much so an "in the moment" type of thing, because it is constantly regulated by what the conductor is hearing which changes with every performance, and the position of the conductor is the best to take in the balance ( for example a trumpet player will hear its brass colleagues quite loudly but this may not be what the audience/conductor is hearing). Some things may be reinforcement, or perhaps it was discussed something should be rather short but it's sounding a bit longer... Cues to "bring an instrument in" can sometimes be redundant, but can also be quite important other times ( if an instrument has many bars of silence and the piece maybe is not very well known, or definitely in contemporary music). But also: very often nowadays there is not a lot of rehearsal, I have seen concerts prepared with just one general rehearsal; so in these cases the "live" gestures are even more important. This is just an attempt to explain some things but it is hard to convey through message, hope it helps!
@@howimettheoperaIt did, thanks.
The conductor may be giving us the same or similar cues as they did in rehearsal but we rely on the conductor in order to play together. In a chamber group we don’t need a conductor because we can see each other and use those visual cues. Within the full orchestra we need the person in the front where we can all see the same cues. We still watch each other as much as possible, but we mostly rely on listening to our colleagues and watching the conductor. Speaking as a professional symphony musician with 40 years experience.
@@thecatspajamas8918 thank you for commenting from your perspective as player, it adds a lot to these discussions/questions!
Amazing job! Really interesting to watch! But where are all the girls; 😁
Thank you! I agree with your point, my issue is with the videos that I feel comfortable using. I work in the industry, so sometimes using clips of colleagues I may work with (or already have), or similarly capturing videos that are officially uploaded by orchestras to their TH-cam channel without permission is tricky territory. This is why I use mostly old non-official clips, which sadly means there isn't as much variety as I'd like. Hopefully I can change this in the future.
@@howimettheopera Oh, didn't think the practical part of that, you're right! Anyways, keep up, we really enjoy your videos! ☺️☺️☺️
“Phrasing”. #grammarmatters
Yeah unfortunately I got so distracted by all the jump cuts in the video that I couldn't really concentrate on what you were saying. I don't know what that's about but it's almost like I have to close my eyes and that's counterintuitive when I'm trying to look at gestures.
Sometimes Carlos Kleiber didn't so much conduct the music as dance it.
If you wanna see how not to do it just watch bradley cooper’s “Maestro”
Watch Two Set Violins take on Bradley's conducting. It's very funny . They have a go at following it!
I am 69 and know NOTHING about music. We just went to a symphony and to another live Christmas concert I enjoy the mechanics and sound of music, but it seems to me, the conductor is just displaying the events of music, rather than making any type of instruction to the musicians? I assume the instruction is during rehearsals?
based
I learned conducting by watching Bugs Bunny.
Spelled "phrasing".
see pinned comment
How about "phrasing" rather than "frasing"
Only bilingües will understand the struggle.
Conducting is not a woman’s job.
But writing unfounded stuff is your job? Would explain quite a bit💀