Bravo. This was thoughtful, and an important discussion on perception and what we assume to be reality. And, whether or not it matters, in the 'big' picture. Historical nuances are often lost in myth; this was a good example of the depth of both.
Was literally teaching my Rhetorical Criticism class about Narrative Criticism, and these ideas of dominant or hegemonic discourses, how speakers hew to them or counter them, and how they are not necessarily grounded in reality, but in the cultural story that people want to tell about themselves or others. I am going to show this episode on Wednesday as a piece of Visual Rhetoric and Brown's discussion as the critique.
I thank you for this exposition of one of the most famous photographs taken so far. This explanation may be why Steiglitz called it "The Steerage". Rather than what we have chosen to interpret it as. 07:29 niggling points: the upright tubular structure you identify as a funnel is a mast. The lateral pole you identify as a mast is a cargo boom attached to that mast.
My great-grandfather worked in the coal mines in Pennsylvania, then went back to Italy where he met my great-grandmother, got married (had a kid), then returned to America sending for her when he had made enough to support them. So when I look at this photo it's very easy to imagine my ancestor among them
Yes! Thanks for adding your grandfather's experience. The narrator here, pushing to make his points failed to recognize and bring up what you just did: That while many immigrants earned some money in USA, then went back to 'the old country.' The video should have gone on to express what you did: Most then came back, with their family. =I.e., even the ones who went back to Italy, etc awhile, most returned to America. Also the immigrant experience was and is a big change and disruption for the families--- If you can go back 'home,' as some did, you can keep connections with the 'old country' and extended family; it's not so ripping away of so much you've known. The original immigrant generation often got homesick and torn. Their children pushed and pulled and more 'easily' adapted themselves to becoming American (or Canadian).
If you are aware of how the first subway was built in NYC or how the train tunnel was built from New Jersey to NYC, you are already aware that many of the workers were seasonal migrants. They went back home when their work was done for the season.
Titanic Memorial Lighthouse is New York's forgotten Immigrant Memorial. In 53 years as custodian, the Seaport Museum and President Jonathan Boulware have neglected to record the names of the 1,496 victims from 28 nations. We ask the Office of Immigrant Affairs (MOIA) and Commissioner Manuel Castro to help resolve this historic neglect. #Titanic
Transatlantic passenger service was suspended when the United States entered World War I. My mother’s grandfather was working for a German company in New York, got stuck here and ended up staying even though his original plan was to return to Germany. I suspect that a lot of other temporary immigrants found themselves in the same situation and helped turn the narrative of immigration into a one-way flow
It amounts to exclusion vs inclusion…..your reality vs my reality….the reason for the delay of the publication of the photograph seems to me to be connected to where the larger audience will be
My family came to America in 1906 from Japan in the SS America Maru. They came in steerage. On eBay I purchased at souvenir spoon from that ship. It was probably purchased by someone traveling in first class.
My family came to America because WE WERE INVITED HERE IN 1780. America was trying to populate itself by inviting CANADIANS to reconsider AMERICA instead of AMERICA. My family was one of the first families to populate Nova Scotia, They took a boat called "The Sally" from Switzerland to Canada in 1680. Canada had reached out to my family in Switzerland because we were/are heavily in the farming-farming community. Not everyone started at ELLIS ISLAND. Many families in the North/East came from other places. We respected the laws on MIGRATION!! BTW- You are not showing the Ethnic Germans - Irish and Scottish that were here in America during that time who were ENSLAVED.
Everyone was invited and the narrative is that immigrants built America. Nevermind that there were millions of Native people living here who had been here for thousands of years and had thousands of separate cultures. That also gets erased as the U.S. government invited Europeans including indentured servants and penal colonists in order to force Native people off of their ancestral homelands via treaties which were not honored by the government and the systematic slaughter of millions of buffalo to starve Native people and force them onto reservations which were internment camps. That is also almost never talked about because people like you are constantly congratulating yourselves on your immigrant story. You are not a victim in any way shape or form. If you have a problem with it you can always return to your ancestors homelands.
@@gnostic268 uh no. You sound like you have been practicing that for years. How about the TRUTH that it wasn't the natives here first- but Asians. Yes my friend- this year they discovered a cemetery filled with Asians in Florida. Way before the natives. Or even the vikings. THE TRUTH IS- natives were WELL PAID BY AMERICA many years ago. They also signed a deal with Americans to land- continued aid- and sovereignty. You don't like it? Take it to tribal court!
@@gnostic268 btw- natives had black slaves as well. It's been documented many times! My parents sent me to private school. I love to read. Sorry you ended up in public school. There is an upside to limiting the amount of children you have. Not from abortion- but common sense. Bye!
Fact is we had 2 million unvetted, no passport, and children walk in to our country from the southern border this year, any American who supports this mess is insane
Obviously you really don't care about this video or its contents. We need new people. The native birth is low. We will run out of working age people if we continue the way things are. Whether it's true or not it always seems like your objections about these new people is they're are not white.
Illegal immigrants never seem to - and then they drop anchor babies we have to support. We should reform citizenship laws so that there is no more birthright citizenship to discourage all this running into our country. Only children of US citizen mothers should get citizenship. To declare a child's citizenship through his father, the father should have permanent custody rights signed over by the mother AND a DNA test performed to ensure it's his child.
Not true. The immigrants who pick your fruit and farm oftentimes leave more often than not. Immigration is mostly economic. This is the primary focus. They do not see America as you do.
Transatlantic passenger service was suspended when the United States entered World War I. My mother’s grandfather was working for a German company in New York, got stuck here and ended up staying even though his original plan was to return to Germany. I suspect that a lot of other temporary immigrants found themselves in the same situation and helped turn the narrative of immigration into a one-way flow
Bravo. This was thoughtful, and an important discussion on perception and what we assume to be reality. And, whether or not it matters, in the 'big' picture. Historical nuances are often lost in myth; this was a good example of the depth of both.
Was literally teaching my Rhetorical Criticism class about Narrative Criticism, and these ideas of dominant or hegemonic discourses, how speakers hew to them or counter them, and how they are not necessarily grounded in reality, but in the cultural story that people want to tell about themselves or others. I am going to show this episode on Wednesday as a piece of Visual Rhetoric and Brown's discussion as the critique.
Also loves seeing that Camera Work book. Going to dig out my Taschen book about Camera Work now.
I thank you for this exposition of one of the most famous photographs taken so far.
This explanation may be why Steiglitz called it "The Steerage".
Rather than what we have chosen to interpret it as.
07:29 niggling points: the upright tubular structure you identify as a funnel is a mast.
The lateral pole you identify as a mast is a cargo boom attached to that mast.
Professor Brown is again being who he is a classy academic
My great-grandfather worked in the coal mines in Pennsylvania, then went back to Italy where he met my great-grandmother, got married (had a kid), then returned to America sending for her when he had made enough to support them. So when I look at this photo it's very easy to imagine my ancestor among them
Yes! Thanks for adding your grandfather's experience. The narrator here, pushing to make his points failed to recognize and bring up what you just did: That while many immigrants earned some money in USA, then went back to 'the old country.' The video should have gone on to express what you did: Most then came back, with their family. =I.e., even the ones who went back to Italy, etc awhile, most returned to America. Also the immigrant experience was and is a big change and disruption for the families--- If you can go back 'home,' as some did, you can keep connections with the 'old country' and extended family; it's not so ripping away of so much you've known. The original immigrant generation often got homesick and torn. Their children pushed and pulled and more 'easily' adapted themselves to becoming American (or Canadian).
Absolutely fascinating. Bravo. I have always loved this photo, but never knew its real history. Thank you very much.
Thank you for sharing this photo & showing us the power of perception.
My grandmother came over in steerage from Ireland
Love this show, and this story. Proves the more things change, the more they stay the same.
This was fasinating. Thank you!
Very good episode!
Develop success from failures. Discouragement and failure are two of the surest stepping stones to success. --Dale Carnegie
If you are aware of how the first subway was built in NYC or how the train tunnel was built from New Jersey to NYC, you are already aware that many of the workers were seasonal migrants. They went back home when their work was done for the season.
Titanic Memorial Lighthouse is New York's forgotten Immigrant Memorial. In 53 years as custodian, the Seaport Museum and President Jonathan Boulware have neglected to record the names of the 1,496 victims from 28 nations. We ask the Office of Immigrant Affairs (MOIA) and Commissioner Manuel Castro to help resolve this historic neglect. #Titanic
The History of Photography class I'm taking recently talked about this and Stieglitz.
Thank you.
I have a great grand uncle who traveled back and froth between NYC and Trinidad from the 1930's to work in NYC.
Transatlantic passenger service was suspended when the United States entered World War I. My mother’s grandfather was working for a German company in New York, got stuck here and ended up staying even though his original plan was to return to Germany. I suspect that a lot of other temporary immigrants found themselves in the same situation and helped turn the narrative of immigration into a one-way flow
Amazing!🤔
so, the picture got turned into propaganda
It amounts to exclusion vs inclusion…..your reality vs my reality….the reason for the delay of the publication of the photograph seems to me to be connected to where the larger audience will be
TRUTH IS IMPORTANT. interpretation of that picture is a BIG LIE- lets go back to TRUTH
There were other entry points: Philadelphia for one.
My family came to America in 1906 from Japan in the SS America Maru. They came in steerage. On eBay I purchased at souvenir spoon from that ship. It was probably purchased by someone traveling in first class.
“For many White Americans”
Lol 😅
Intriguing. 🤔
My family came to America because WE WERE INVITED HERE IN 1780.
America was trying to populate itself by inviting CANADIANS to reconsider AMERICA instead of AMERICA.
My family was one of the first families to populate Nova Scotia,
They took a boat called "The Sally" from Switzerland to Canada in 1680. Canada had reached out to my family in Switzerland because we were/are heavily in the farming-farming community.
Not everyone started at ELLIS ISLAND. Many families in the North/East came from other places.
We respected the laws on MIGRATION!!
BTW- You are not showing the Ethnic Germans - Irish and Scottish that were here in America during that time who were ENSLAVED.
I am a descendant of two enslaved Scots.
@@lolawalsh9187 it doesn't matter because you and I are white.
Everyone was invited and the narrative is that immigrants built America. Nevermind that there were millions of Native people living here who had been here for thousands of years and had thousands of separate cultures. That also gets erased as the U.S. government invited Europeans including indentured servants and penal colonists in order to force Native people off of their ancestral homelands via treaties which were not honored by the government and the systematic slaughter of millions of buffalo to starve Native people and force them onto reservations which were internment camps. That is also almost never talked about because people like you are constantly congratulating yourselves on your immigrant story. You are not a victim in any way shape or form. If you have a problem with it you can always return to your ancestors homelands.
@@gnostic268 uh no. You sound like you have been practicing that for years.
How about the TRUTH that it wasn't the natives here first- but Asians. Yes my friend- this year they discovered a cemetery filled with Asians in Florida. Way before the natives. Or even the vikings. THE TRUTH IS- natives were WELL PAID BY AMERICA many years ago. They also signed a deal with Americans to land- continued aid- and sovereignty. You don't like it? Take it to tribal court!
@@gnostic268 btw- natives had black slaves as well. It's been documented many times! My parents sent me to private school. I love to read. Sorry you ended up in public school. There is an upside to limiting the amount of children you have. Not from abortion- but common sense. Bye!
Every Titanic fanatic knows a lot about this.
Fact is we had 2 million unvetted, no passport, and children walk in to our country from the southern border this year, any American who supports this mess is insane
Obviously you really don't care about this video or its contents.
We need new people. The native birth is low. We will run out of working age people if we continue the way things are. Whether it's true or not it always seems like your objections about these new people is they're are not white.
Many blacks used ellis island also.
We are the true Americans, Amaru Khan's...!!!!!!!...!!!!!!!...
literacy matters
Immigrants today NEVER LEAVE!!
Then the entire village shows up!!
Illegal immigrants never seem to - and then they drop anchor babies we have to support. We should reform citizenship laws so that there is no more birthright citizenship to discourage all this running into our country. Only children of US citizen mothers should get citizenship. To declare a child's citizenship through his father, the father should have permanent custody rights signed over by the mother AND a DNA test performed to ensure it's his child.
@@JaneAtwellRobinson1825NY I agree 100000%%%
Not true. The immigrants who pick your fruit and farm oftentimes leave more often than not.
Immigration is mostly economic. This is the primary focus. They do not see America as you do.
Transatlantic passenger service was suspended when the United States entered World War I. My mother’s grandfather was working for a German company in New York, got stuck here and ended up staying even though his original plan was to return to Germany. I suspect that a lot of other temporary immigrants found themselves in the same situation and helped turn the narrative of immigration into a one-way flow