So hey, that Trackstar with the wider bracket on it that didn't quite fit the XT? Thanks to knowledgable folks in the comments I now know that it fits the PC 5150 perfectly! twitter.com/lazygamereviews/status/1677390793449848832 I had no idea there were wider bracketed cards like this, none of the ones in my 5150s are designed like that. Sweet!
The earliest IBM PC cards did have the wider black brackets. But once the XT came out in 1983, they switched to the now-standard size to fit its narrower slots. p.s. Your XT desperately needs a black 3.5" floppy drive faceplate!
This same issue popped up in an Epitronics video recently. He swapped the black bracket out for a standard sized one to fit the machine he was working on.
That was my first thought when you said it was too wide. I remember another 'tuber mention that the oldest IBM cards were a bit wider for whatever reason. Early stuff before the standard was standard.
@LGR - Video (from my channel) forthcoming; There isn't a microchannel version of the Trackstar Plus. The mistake is from a single source that propagated out into other compiled information (which happens on the Internet). Stay tuned!
The signed letter from *a technician* lends dignity both to the product and to the technician's position. What a wonderful thing to see, and something you'd absolutely never get today.
Yeah. 1980: "Here's the schematic, in case you need to fix something, or want to make changes. See the code listing in the appendix for further info. Love, - The engineering team" 1990: "The new version is now easier to set up. See the quick-start guide for help installing your new hardware, then run SETUP from the included disk. Our tech support is standing by in case you have any troubles. Thank you for your purchase! Regards, - The product development team." 2000: "This product is easy to use, once your learn it. Try not to think about how complicated it looks. We've added a terrible talking front-end to help guide you. It won't make you understand it any better, but it sure seemed approachable to our focus group. Best wishes, - The marketing team" 2010: "It works by magic! Just plug it in to any available USB port, follow the on-screen instructions, and _never ever ever look inside._ Seriously. We will sue you. You've been warned, - The law team" 2020: "Faster by addition of colorful LED. Please to register function on the website. You will be require to create your account. For advanced feature, you must pay more. You can choose! Joy and good feelings, - The holding company" 2030: "This is Open AI Nuvo. Start by describing what you would like your new product to do."
@@luciascarlet Right ? Same with the Motorola StarMax, can't believe Apple licensed their hardware and software to another company, though those only existed for like a year.
9:50 I can't stress how much I miss the professional touches, like those neat, tidy binders. These days you're lucky if you get documentation, it's usually all ads.
I used to spend SO much time flipping through Computer Shopper and literally every other computer catalog I could get my hands on. Over the years, this channel has cover nearly every piece of hardware or software that I ever wondered about back then.
Earlier this year I bought a Diamond branded AMD 6600XT video card. I was quite shocked to see the company name and logo on what looks like a rebranded powercolor card, but it's fun to see in my case
This would have been amazing for NES game development back in the day. Apple II systems were used for that purpose back then since the Apple II shares the same CPU as the NES. The ability to easily transfer files from the PC side to Apple II and back would have been an amazing godsend.
Really hope one day Clint does a video on the Sega Teradrive. A weird fusion of a 286 and a Sega Genesis/Mega Drive that was actually able to communicate with both sides of the system. I think it was used as a development kit for some games.
@@renakunisaki Sega's Teradrive / Amstrad MegaPC I would love an LGR video about it. EDIT: Oh awesome. Clint has one. Said so in another comment reply.
It's still kinda impressive today, to me. I mean besides the knowledge of the fact this was a hell of a technical achievement at the time... I mean, it's a whole damn computer in the flesh on a board inside another computer. An entire system on a board like that has always impressed me.
Super neat video. I wanted to note that that Tandy computer you showed from LAUSD (timestamp 6:54) actually came from the same school my mom and her siblings went to for elementary school. When you showed the engraving I almost spat out my coffee cause my mom very well could have seen/interacted with that computer as a kid. Crazy find and reminder of our small world!
Interestingly, I always thought Ken was also passionate about games... Not at all, it was always purely a business for Ken. Roberta and her team/s led the creative effort.
23:17 This brings to mind my early childhood misconception that certain PC game controllers also worked on Apple IIs somehow. I came to the conclusion that they somehow enabled the PCs to work with Apple software. This type of card must be why I have that memory. Because I clearly remember running Apple software on IBM PCs in the computer room. I also thought I was mistaken confusing the Apple IIs and IBM PCs that quite possibly were right next to each other in the same room. Maybe not.
Not 100%, but I'm pretty sure they did make joysticks that did work on PC or Apple. They were wired differently and had split cable at the end with plugs for each. After all, the *actual* joystick itself was the same, it was only the signaling that was different. Obviously, this did nothing to make the software work, but just saying part of your memory isn't wrong.
Everytime I see a video like this, I realize how shortsighted so many people in the general public can be about old electronic preservation. My old school used to have a whole room full of old Apple computers, adapters, and misc hardware that was largely just thrown in the garbage when cleaning out old storage closets. How great it would be to actually sell them or send them along to someone who would use them, but sometimes that's just how it ends up in the end. Glad to see cool hardware like this survive long enough to not only be used again, but to be shown off to the world in such loving detail amd comprehensive insight.
Don't think that was hardware, it was a program called Shapeshifter. Amiga's ran on pretty close to the same hardware platform, both were M68k powered, with Shapeshifter translating a few syscalls you could run Mac OS and apps on your Amiga. Often faster then they ran on contemporary macs too.
You're gonna love this: right now at the Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary Tribute Store inside Universal Studios Florida theme park they have an Apple ][ with an IBM PS2 monitor on top! I doubt they used aluminum foil though!
Lots of companies used Visicalc on the Apple II & Apple CP/M business software. I could easily see one of those companies justifying the cost of the card when they switched to PCs just for the file transferring features alone.
It's a computer in a computer! This incredibly cool and probably had a bunch of very real uses back in the day. It reminds me of the Colecovision add-on that gave you the ability to play Atari 2600 games on it.
Wow, seeing that boot up in the Apple II mode brought some memories to me. I think my school was in that program and the computers at our lab were just like that. I remember playing Frogger _in color_ and that's about it from those days.
I love how the Oregon Trail made you think no one really lived on the west coast of North America. Then I grew up and realized my ancestors made that trip hundreds of years before...
I knew a guy in High School that didn't have a C-64, Atari 800 or Apple II like most kids with computers at home did. He had an IBM PC (or maybe a clone). I thought that was weird, but he said they had a card that let him run Apple II software. I thought that was cool, since that meant he could play games. Yeah, PCs in 1985 were seen as pricey business-only computers with the exception of the PC jr, aka Peanut, which had come and gone by that time.
Thank you so much for making this! About a year ago I found an ibm ps/2 model 30 286 at a garage sale for a few bucks and it had a trackstar plus card in it. Just like the one in the video! (Except mine smells musty, is dusty, and even a little rusty) I have been trying to find info about the card ever since but I could hardly find anything beyond that it emulates apple II software. The computer was originally used in an educational setting in the 90’s which must have been why it was originally installed. Awesome video!
Very interesting. I'd heard of the Trackstar, but I didn't know it was made by the company that would become Diamond Multimedia. Also, Adrian just mentioned in a recent video about struggling to transfer files from old Apple II disks, so technically this would work. But I think it would've been easier to just transfer the text documents over a serial port or something.
I was always intrigued by these as a kid... like, I knew you could get a PC card for Amiga... while all I ever had was an Amiga 500 and these kinda things woulda been out of my price range anyway, I dreamed of having "two computers in one!" Thanks for the video.
Sir your aluminum foil application in this instance is outside of spec and industry standards, you want the whole case covered. I'll connect you with a Best Buy Geek Squad associate. You owe me three hundred dollars.
New LGR video and a new item to put on my list of unobtainium things. But great video nevertheless. I just really wish such a card exist for the C64 or C128 or any of the Commodore 8-bit. Even an Amiga on a PCI would've been sweet. Well, if these are possible, of course. Again great video. :)
The reason the Apple II was so easy to clone was that it had nothing under the hood that you couldn't make a cycle-accurate replica of with off-the-shelf hardware. Same as IBM. To do something like this with anything from Commodore or Atari, you'd need to acquire original official chips somehow. At which point you'd probably be better off just buying the real thing for the amount it would set you back, especially the dirt-cheap 64.
@@stevethepocket Of course, the beauty and simplicity of the Apple II and IBM PC is that they run on off-the-shelf components. That wasn't really my question either. I just wanted to know if it were possible. And the answer is obviously yes but you need the custom components, like the VIC-II and SID. Wasn't considering price or ease, just the possibility. Think about it this way: The 3DO Blaster exists. But it's expensive, requires a soundcard on the side, and it only works with a special type of CD-ROM drive. Yet it still exists and getting an actual 3DO was probably cheaper. These challenges are (surely) not that much different from what a C64 or Amiga card would present you with.
I LOVE the idea of a "system on a card". Imagine if we could do that today. A base "unit" to run the cards with different OS's or computers on the cards- each slightly upgradable or entirely replacable to have users have so much control over so much and so many more options. Man that'd be amazing.
I don't see why not. The ISA slots are completely separate from the Zorro slots on the Amiga side. So the PC running independent of the Amiga would handle this arrangement fine I think. Though I wonder if the file transfer stuff might have issues or get rather complicated. It would be fun the transfer the Apple file over to the PC card and then transfer it over to the Amiga side. Heck if you got the CP/M working on the Apple side you could claim to have four systems in one!
Clint: Back in the day I had a Diamond Trackstar in a homebrew 486 sitting next to a Apple IIGS with a PCTransporter card in it. I could sneakernet files from Fat16 to ProDOS formats with ease. I was a frequenter on the old Usenet comp.sys.apple2 posting of my "Network from Heck" I still have a massive collection of Apple II software, both commercial and obscure utility stuff like for the Trackstar. It is a trip down memory lane watching you run through the basics of this old board.
I could put this in an ISA slot in my Amiga along with a Bridgeboard and be able to run Apple II and CP/M software on my Amiga while multi-tasking AmigaOS all while multi-tasking Apple Classic Mac OS.
The CGA problem is probably caused by the "switching" software; I didn't get the technical details about that one, but I presume it's a TSR that hooks to the keyboard, switches to text mode and then presents the "control menu"? When doing that, the CGA frame buffer is hosed for sure. I don't think it'll save the contents. i.e. when it returns to the original software, the buffer is empty and it probably also has no clue what palette in CGA to use... Maybe poke Diamond for an updated version? :D
I had completely forgotten about the RF interference problems with 80s computers. I had an Apple ][+ clone, and my dad made me a really nice monitor stand with metal shielding under laminate and tied to a ground plug.
As much of a sucker I am for emulation and virtualization, there's something about basically jamming another computer into an "incompatible" PC that tickles my brain.
Wow! This would have been so cool to run. I learned on an Apple ][ + and Apple //e back in the 80's. I self-taught myself basic, 6502 Machine Language and Assembly language, and then eventually C (via the Aztec C Compiler environment). I also had a Z80 card in it and ran CP/M on my Apple. It was so much fun and is the reason I've been in IT as a programmer for over 30 years now.
Pretty neat but it's a bit of a shame it doesn't interact with the host much. Would've maybe made a pretty sick dev environment, having a powerful host PC with direct access to load software on the integrated apple 2 and debug memory and stuff separate from the running system.
Excellent episode. Im a big fan of those weird large SBCs that expanded your PC to act as another machine. I think after this episode and the 3DO & PC-FX cards, the one missing is the Mega Drive card from the Amstrad Mega PC. There were also some ISA cards for CP/M or MSX i think
I learned to type on an Apple II C in elementary school 91-96 and haven't used an Apple desktop computer since in the house we've used IBM Dell HP and Toshiba among other brands for computers
"Emulation" is such a strange word. Nobody's ever been entirely sure what it means. Software simulating a computer? Hardware helping one computer simulate another? Two entirely separate computers sharing I/O devices?
The original IBM had more space between the 8 bit ISA slots. I think this is the reason for the weirdly wide card bracket. By the time they made the XT the spacing between ISA slots was closer allowing for a few more ISA slots.
When I was a kid my parents got one of those Mac clones with a PC inside it on a card. It took me a very long time to learn i could right click by holding the option button....
Apple actually and some of those cards too, and the PowerMac 4400 had a version with one of them factory installed. I also had the Apple PC card, with a Cyrix x586 installed in my old PowerMac 6500. That one , at least did work with my two button mouse.
I know there were various hardware cards for putting a DOS PC into some flavor of Macintosh (i.e., those that had expansion slot(s)), but were there any hardware cards that could drop into an Apple II slot and provide PC capability?
Another BIG advantage of the Plus model is that it uses VGA for the video Passthrough. That makes it compatible with more modern PCs and GPUs, avoiding the hassle of doing CGA-VGA conversions
Oh yes, another oddware beauty with good old LGR, this time is a card basically is apple II on a Chip or in a card in the case which by coincidences Apple themselves also made a card that allows you to use the apple II software on a Macintosh specifically on the LC series which I recall from David Murray aka The 8 Bit Guy. This is literally Hackintosh before Hackintosh. Neat
I smell copy protection shenanigans being the requirement for high compatibility mode. Look at the 4 am collection, it has detailed writeups on what each game did.
1:16 Amazing how much more expensive the Apple II is compared with the Ataris. Pick up an old Atari 800 for peanuts, or an Atari 600XL for a fraction of the price of an Apple. I know the monitors were a significant cost, so that's probably part of it. Although it makes me realize, while the Apple and the other early 6502 pioneers were matched in compute power, Apple has a bunch of expansion slots and opened up 3rd party cards. The Atari 800 had two cartridge slots, the second of which was used so little that it was dropped in later models.
Keep in mind that in 1971 there were no personal computers at all. The first Apple computer was in 1976, the first Commodore PET (ancestor of VIC-20 and C64) and the TRS-80 were in 1977, and the first IBM PC was in 1981.
indeed I went to one of the socal schools that was all apple IIs as far as I can remember. SO a lot of love for the old apple II stuff. maybe it's some technical thing I don't understand about how the card works, but interesting that the BASIC prompt was in monochrome and not color? but overall a neat piece of tech!
Cool stuff, Clint 👌 Those broad black slot brackets are actually what IBM used on earlier expansion cards in their 5150 machines. My 1982 CGA and MDA also have that same weird bracket that only fits in a 5150 case (and maybe also a Kaypro?). If you compare the 5 8-bit expansion slots in a 5150 with the 8 slots from a 5160 you'll see that the spacing between the slots is different. The 5150 fits both the narrow silver and broad black brackets 🙂
Oh I’ve never seen that before! The 5150s do have more space between cards internally but my 5150 cards and brackets are no different in width than other PCs, and the Trackstar doesn’t fit either since the screw hole is in a different place so it can’t screw in… Though my 5150s are not super early models, perhaps IBM changed something by the time mine were built? EDIT: nope I was wrong!
@@LGR It surprises me that the Trackstar doesn't fit your 5150. It looks like a 5150 bracket but it must be different somehow if it doesn't. My 5150 is a late 1985 unit and my early IBM cards do fit in it.. I guess the Trackstar uses an even different form factor 🙂
Hey you were right, through a combination of metal I didn’t realize was bent and my own lack of attention I missed that it *does* indeed fit a 5150! This is good to know, now I’m on the hunt for some of IBM’s own wider bracketed cards :)
Diamond Multimedia's street address in Starnberg seemed familiar, so I had to look that up. SPEA Software AG was originally located there, they were later bought by Diamond. Diamond's FirePro series of workstation graphics cards were designed at the Starnberg HQ. When Diamond went under, ATI bought the Starnberg offices and Fire brand. Renamed ATI Research GmbH, the team became responsible for designing the ATI FireGL line of cards and developing their Linux drivers. The subsidiary is apparently still around, under the same name, at the same street address. Considering the lead devs of AMD's Linux GPU drivers are pretty much all German, I guess that's what AMD's Starnberg office does to this day.
Only the Radio Shack stores that were effective at selling PCs carried peripherals such as TrackStar. Most of the RadioShack stores could special order PCs but couldn't sell through their inventory. There were maybe 15-20 Radio Shacks that could sell through TrackStar because they had employees that were passionate about the platform.
So hey, that Trackstar with the wider bracket on it that didn't quite fit the XT? Thanks to knowledgable folks in the comments I now know that it fits the PC 5150 perfectly! twitter.com/lazygamereviews/status/1677390793449848832 I had no idea there were wider bracketed cards like this, none of the ones in my 5150s are designed like that. Sweet!
The earliest IBM PC cards did have the wider black brackets. But once the XT came out in 1983, they switched to the now-standard size to fit its narrower slots.
p.s. Your XT desperately needs a black 3.5" floppy drive faceplate!
This same issue popped up in an Epitronics video recently. He swapped the black bracket out for a standard sized one to fit the machine he was working on.
That was my first thought when you said it was too wide. I remember another 'tuber mention that the oldest IBM cards were a bit wider for whatever reason. Early stuff before the standard was standard.
@LGR - Video (from my channel) forthcoming; There isn't a microchannel version of the Trackstar Plus. The mistake is from a single source that propagated out into other compiled information (which happens on the Internet). Stay tuned!
Yep - I was just about to tell you that lol.
The signed letter from *a technician* lends dignity both to the product and to the technician's position. What a wonderful thing to see, and something you'd absolutely never get today.
Agreed, quite a welcome personal touch for such a technically-focused product.
Yeah.
1980: "Here's the schematic, in case you need to fix something, or want to make changes. See the code listing in the appendix for further info. Love, - The engineering team"
1990: "The new version is now easier to set up. See the quick-start guide for help installing your new hardware, then run SETUP from the included disk. Our tech support is standing by in case you have any troubles. Thank you for your purchase! Regards, - The product development team."
2000: "This product is easy to use, once your learn it. Try not to think about how complicated it looks. We've added a terrible talking front-end to help guide you. It won't make you understand it any better, but it sure seemed approachable to our focus group. Best wishes, - The marketing team"
2010: "It works by magic! Just plug it in to any available USB port, follow the on-screen instructions, and _never ever ever look inside._ Seriously. We will sue you. You've been warned, - The law team"
2020: "Faster by addition of colorful LED. Please to register function on the website. You will be require to create your account. For advanced feature, you must pay more. You can choose! Joy and good feelings, - The holding company"
2030: "This is Open AI Nuvo. Start by describing what you would like your new product to do."
@nickwallette6201 A hilarious look at tech evolution.
@@nickwallette6201 your grasp of "not quite grammatically correct English" is excellent.
@@JBaughb Thank you. I've been able to ingest quite a bit of sample data. ;-)
It feels so wrong yet so right to see old PC working with an Apple DOS!
Talk about Hackintosh before Hackintosh
a Hackpple ][
But also not really, as Apple actually licensed it themselves. Feels so weird to think about nowadays...
@@luciascarlet Right ? Same with the Motorola StarMax, can't believe Apple licensed their hardware and software to another company, though those only existed for like a year.
@@luciascarlet could you imagine the stuff that could happen if they licensed out their m chips? insane, amazing, and impossible.
@@albummutation2278 oh Qualcomm would be DONE for
9:50 I can't stress how much I miss the professional touches, like those neat, tidy binders. These days you're lucky if you get documentation, it's usually all ads.
Here in Austria it’s usually pointless warranty or safety stuff in 40 different languages.
While on my new acer laptop,the manual all it tells me is where all the ports are and all the warranty crap and the technical support hotline.
Totally agree. HP used to do that, for all products I care about.
I used to spend SO much time flipping through Computer Shopper and literally every other computer catalog I could get my hands on. Over the years, this channel has cover nearly every piece of hardware or software that I ever wondered about back then.
Earlier this year I bought a Diamond branded AMD 6600XT video card. I was quite shocked to see the company name and logo on what looks like a rebranded powercolor card, but it's fun to see in my case
Powercolor is also owned by TUL Corp, like Diamond! Wild to see them making stuff like that again indeed
This would have been amazing for NES game development back in the day. Apple II systems were used for that purpose back then since the Apple II shares the same CPU as the NES. The ability to easily transfer files from the PC side to Apple II and back would have been an amazing godsend.
Really hope one day Clint does a video on the Sega Teradrive. A weird fusion of a 286 and a Sega Genesis/Mega Drive that was actually able to communicate with both sides of the system. I think it was used as a development kit for some games.
I have a Teradrive to cover!
@@LGRDO IT DO IT DO IT.
@@Toonrick12Note that the TeraDrive is not intended for development - it does contain a special game that can talk to MD side.
What would be the advantage over a genuine Apple?
You need to find a server board with like 12 ISA slots, and build a "do everything" box with all these cards in there at once.
The Voltron of computers
And then add all of the 5 1/4" oddware to it at the same time.
Yes. One machine that's simultaneously a PC, an Apple, a Sega Genesis...
@@renakunisaki Sega's Teradrive / Amstrad MegaPC
I would love an LGR video about it.
EDIT: Oh awesome. Clint has one. Said so in another comment reply.
good luck fitting the I/O address puzzle
The binder manual is a nice touch, it speaks to how "techincal" technology used to feel back then.
All of this stuff was so impressive at the time.
It's still kinda impressive today, to me. I mean besides the knowledge of the fact this was a hell of a technical achievement at the time... I mean, it's a whole damn computer in the flesh on a board inside another computer. An entire system on a board like that has always impressed me.
@@birdbrain4445 In the '80s they were rather common, when software emulation was unfeasible, there were for the Amiga computer too (PC and Mac boards)
the amount of wire bodges on the back of the first card is alarming and awesome
Super neat video. I wanted to note that that Tandy computer you showed from LAUSD (timestamp 6:54) actually came from the same school my mom and her siblings went to for elementary school. When you showed the engraving I almost spat out my coffee cause my mom very well could have seen/interacted with that computer as a kid. Crazy find and reminder of our small world!
That's wild, small world indeed!
Say what you will. Ken and Roberta sure made a company whose name will survive through the ages.. Long may the Sierra name survive in our memories
Interestingly, I always thought Ken was also passionate about games... Not at all, it was always purely a business for Ken. Roberta and her team/s led the creative effort.
I had one of those Gravis pads when I was a kid. There´s always something in your videos that brings back memories
I remember wanting one , and always stopping to drool over the box at Best Buy in the Mac section
This is amazing. It's like the equivalent of running a Mac VM in the 80s, but better
No way, I went to Loma Vista for 3rd-6th grade. What a trip to see in one of your videos.
Oh nice, small world!
@@LGRok im being a smart aleck here but 29000 miles isnt all that small
@@thetechsavvy01he longest distance between any two points on earth is about 12,000 miles. Were you perhaps in orbit?
@@Sashazur yes, circumferecce
23:17 This brings to mind my early childhood misconception that certain PC game controllers also worked on Apple IIs somehow. I came to the conclusion that they somehow enabled the PCs to work with Apple software. This type of card must be why I have that memory. Because I clearly remember running Apple software on IBM PCs in the computer room. I also thought I was mistaken confusing the Apple IIs and IBM PCs that quite possibly were right next to each other in the same room. Maybe not.
Not 100%, but I'm pretty sure they did make joysticks that did work on PC or Apple. They were wired differently and had split cable at the end with plugs for each. After all, the *actual* joystick itself was the same, it was only the signaling that was different.
Obviously, this did nothing to make the software work, but just saying part of your memory isn't wrong.
I'm always interested in the whole "computer on an expansion card" idea. It's like turning your PC into a blade server.
Then check out the Amiga Bridgeboards, 8088 to 386sx on a board, runs DOS alongside Amiga software.
@@8BitNaptime sure, but I haven't owned an Amiga for many years.
It should be possible, and fascinating, and a lot of work, to run all three processors at once...
am thinking the Apple IIgs shrunk an Apple II down to like one chip - for faithful bsckward compatibility to the Apple Ii
@@TheSulross I remember that! The IIgs was probably Apple's best product ever, and that was part of it.
Oh boy, that's a fun one. I used to have the opposite: Applied Engineering's "PC Transporter", that turns the Apple II into a PC compatible. :D
Just got off work, its 7:15 AM and i get an LGR video for the train ride home. Today is a good day
It's July 8 12 15 am for me lol I should go to bed
I tested several versions of this board in the summer of 1987. Apple Presents Apple was the standard software to run.
Everytime I see a video like this, I realize how shortsighted so many people in the general public can be about old electronic preservation. My old school used to have a whole room full of old Apple computers, adapters, and misc hardware that was largely just thrown in the garbage when cleaning out old storage closets.
How great it would be to actually sell them or send them along to someone who would use them, but sometimes that's just how it ends up in the end.
Glad to see cool hardware like this survive long enough to not only be used again, but to be shown off to the world in such loving detail amd comprehensive insight.
This reminds me of a piece of hardware that basically turns your Amiga into a Macintosh
Don't think that was hardware, it was a program called Shapeshifter. Amiga's ran on pretty close to the same hardware platform, both were M68k powered, with Shapeshifter translating a few syscalls you could run Mac OS and apps on your Amiga. Often faster then they ran on contemporary macs too.
The one 8BG covered?
There were two: Emplant and Amax
plus the card that turns an Amiga into a PC and a card that can let you use Apple 2 on a Mac. or the part that lets you use Apple 2 on a Commodore 64.
@@neophytealpha I have a 286 card to make my A2000 behave like a PC. I think I've had since a 386 was a fast PC.
You're gonna love this: right now at the Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary Tribute Store inside Universal Studios Florida theme park they have an Apple ][ with an IBM PS2 monitor on top! I doubt they used aluminum foil though!
Lots of companies used Visicalc on the Apple II & Apple CP/M business software. I could easily see one of those companies justifying the cost of the card when they switched to PCs just for the file transferring features alone.
It's a computer in a computer! This incredibly cool and probably had a bunch of very real uses back in the day. It reminds me of the Colecovision add-on that gave you the ability to play Atari 2600 games on it.
Three computers in one. Man that would've been handy back then huh.
Beautifully done.. You know a true professional by the usage of aluminum foil 😉
Wow, seeing that boot up in the Apple II mode brought some memories to me. I think my school was in that program and the computers at our lab were just like that. I remember playing Frogger _in color_ and that's about it from those days.
I was expecting to see Oregon Trail Apple II running in the background as Oregon Trail PC was running at the same time... Mind blown!
I'm amazed at how crisp the video is. It looks exactly like I would imagine a 40-column Apple II would look like on a like-new 5153/5154 display.
I love how the Oregon Trail made you think no one really lived on the west coast of North America. Then I grew up and realized my ancestors made that trip hundreds of years before...
I knew a guy in High School that didn't have a C-64, Atari 800 or Apple II like most kids with computers at home did. He had an IBM PC (or maybe a clone). I thought that was weird, but he said they had a card that let him run Apple II software. I thought that was cool, since that meant he could play games. Yeah, PCs in 1985 were seen as pricey business-only computers with the exception of the PC jr, aka Peanut, which had come and gone by that time.
Thank you so much for making this! About a year ago I found an ibm ps/2 model 30 286 at a garage sale for a few bucks and it had a trackstar plus card in it. Just like the one in the video! (Except mine smells musty, is dusty, and even a little rusty) I have been trying to find info about the card ever since but I could hardly find anything beyond that it emulates apple II software. The computer was originally used in an educational setting in the 90’s which must have been why it was originally installed. Awesome video!
Agreed about those 80's logos. There's something about those old pixel art images.
Newtek made some prototypes of what was pretty much an Amiga 500 on an ISA card. They never released it though. But I got to see one once.
By the way, thank you very much for including real subtitles
My pleasure!
So cool how you find such amazing bits of computing history like this. Who knew you could get an Apple II working on a PC. Incredible
Thank you for what you do. Your videos make me happy
Happy to hear that :)
Great episode Clint!!!! Had no idea these cards existed and worked so well! Thanks for the review!!!!!!!
Very interesting. I'd heard of the Trackstar, but I didn't know it was made by the company that would become Diamond Multimedia.
Also, Adrian just mentioned in a recent video about struggling to transfer files from old Apple II disks, so technically this would work. But I think it would've been easier to just transfer the text documents over a serial port or something.
I was always intrigued by these as a kid... like, I knew you could get a PC card for Amiga... while all I ever had was an Amiga 500 and these kinda things woulda been out of my price range anyway, I dreamed of having "two computers in one!" Thanks for the video.
Sir your aluminum foil application in this instance is outside of spec and industry standards, you want the whole case covered. I'll connect you with a Best Buy Geek Squad associate. You owe me three hundred dollars.
New LGR video and a new item to put on my list of unobtainium things. But great video nevertheless. I just really wish such a card exist for the C64 or C128 or any of the Commodore 8-bit. Even an Amiga on a PCI would've been sweet. Well, if these are possible, of course. Again great video. :)
The reason the Apple II was so easy to clone was that it had nothing under the hood that you couldn't make a cycle-accurate replica of with off-the-shelf hardware. Same as IBM. To do something like this with anything from Commodore or Atari, you'd need to acquire original official chips somehow. At which point you'd probably be better off just buying the real thing for the amount it would set you back, especially the dirt-cheap 64.
@@stevethepocket Of course, the beauty and simplicity of the Apple II and IBM PC is that they run on off-the-shelf components. That wasn't really my question either. I just wanted to know if it were possible. And the answer is obviously yes but you need the custom components, like the VIC-II and SID. Wasn't considering price or ease, just the possibility. Think about it this way: The 3DO Blaster exists. But it's expensive, requires a soundcard on the side, and it only works with a special type of CD-ROM drive. Yet it still exists and getting an actual 3DO was probably cheaper. These challenges are (surely) not that much different from what a C64 or Amiga card would present you with.
@0x0fffff Thanks. What a bummer... but that would mean that schematics or maybe even protoypes exist? Maybe?
I LOVE the idea of a "system on a card". Imagine if we could do that today. A base "unit" to run the cards with different OS's or computers on the cards- each slightly upgradable or entirely replacable to have users have so much control over so much and so many more options. Man that'd be amazing.
Nice! I have the opposite in one of my Apple II's a PC card that has its own floppys, and keyboard connector
I wonder if this would work with the PC card in an Amiga 2000… ;) Combining the three systems in a single box would be quite something.
I don't see why not. The ISA slots are completely separate from the Zorro slots on the Amiga side. So the PC running independent of the Amiga would handle this arrangement fine I think. Though I wonder if the file transfer stuff might have issues or get rather complicated. It would be fun the transfer the Apple file over to the PC card and then transfer it over to the Amiga side. Heck if you got the CP/M working on the Apple side you could claim to have four systems in one!
I'm going to try this :)
Clint: Back in the day I had a Diamond Trackstar in a homebrew 486 sitting next to a Apple IIGS with a PCTransporter card in it. I could sneakernet files from Fat16 to ProDOS formats with ease. I was a frequenter on the old Usenet comp.sys.apple2 posting of my "Network from Heck" I still have a massive collection of Apple II software, both commercial and obscure utility stuff like for the Trackstar. It is a trip down memory lane watching you run through the basics of this old board.
That's fantastic, thanks for reporting in!
I could put this in an ISA slot in my Amiga along with a Bridgeboard and be able to run Apple II and CP/M software on my Amiga while multi-tasking AmigaOS all while multi-tasking Apple Classic Mac OS.
i love the way that, when you switch between the PC and Apple II, the screen wobbles around for a moment. it's like analog wobbly windows!
Awesome stuff. If i knew this existed, back in the days, i would really have wanted to have it.Omg!
Cool tech! The disk images being supported is awesome, as well as being able to switch computers on the fly.
The CGA problem is probably caused by the "switching" software; I didn't get the technical details about that one, but I presume it's a TSR that hooks to the keyboard, switches to text mode and then presents the "control menu"? When doing that, the CGA frame buffer is hosed for sure. I don't think it'll save the contents. i.e. when it returns to the original software, the buffer is empty and it probably also has no clue what palette in CGA to use... Maybe poke Diamond for an updated version? :D
I'm impressed that the PC speaker is doing two simultaneous voices at when you have the Appple ][ and PC both outputting sound
That’s pretty great 👍
Love seeing those old Apple games.
And what a fascinating piece of hardware!
The colors look surprisingly good for a CGA monitor
Composite CGA can display 16 colors.
Amazing that two computers can be turned on at the same time.
This is definitely an LGR thing.
The most astonishing thing about this video are the legitimate copies of Oregon trail and moon patrol.
I always dreamed of having one of these but for the Commodore 64. The upgrade from a C64 to an AT was kind of rough.
I had completely forgotten about the RF interference problems with 80s computers. I had an Apple ][+ clone, and my dad made me a really nice monitor stand with metal shielding under laminate and tied to a ground plug.
I discovered that if I turned on my massive CRT upstairs, the radio downstairs would only pick up a lot of noise.
As much of a sucker I am for emulation and virtualization, there's something about basically jamming another computer into an "incompatible" PC that tickles my brain.
Wow! This would have been so cool to run. I learned on an Apple ][ + and Apple //e back in the 80's. I self-taught myself basic, 6502 Machine Language and Assembly language, and then eventually C (via the Aztec C Compiler environment). I also had a Z80 card in it and ran CP/M on my Apple. It was so much fun and is the reason I've been in IT as a programmer for over 30 years now.
Pretty neat but it's a bit of a shame it doesn't interact with the host much. Would've maybe made a pretty sick dev environment, having a powerful host PC with direct access to load software on the integrated apple 2 and debug memory and stuff separate from the running system.
Man your CRT shots look so good these days. Additionally the Gravis Gamepad on an Apple II is crazy weird to see!
Thanks! And yeah it's just a surreal sight, feels equally wrong to play.
Excellent episode. Im a big fan of those weird large SBCs that expanded your PC to act as another machine. I think after this episode and the 3DO & PC-FX cards, the one missing is the Mega Drive card from the Amstrad Mega PC. There were also some ISA cards for CP/M or MSX i think
I learned to type on an Apple II C in elementary school 91-96 and haven't used an Apple desktop computer since in the house we've used IBM Dell HP and Toshiba among other brands for computers
“I can move around a little bit and delay death.” Accurate.
"Emulation" is such a strange word. Nobody's ever been entirely sure what it means. Software simulating a computer? Hardware helping one computer simulate another? Two entirely separate computers sharing I/O devices?
What a cool device!! The name seemed tacky at first, but it really grew on me when I knew how special it was in the end.
The original IBM had more space between the 8 bit ISA slots. I think this is the reason for the weirdly wide card bracket. By the time they made the XT the spacing between ISA slots was closer allowing for a few more ISA slots.
Indeed, see the top pinned comment
14:51 "That will bring us to the prompt there, and stop our farts." Wow, the Apple II card is a useful one. :D
7:20 I love how the "model technology school" documentation looks like it was written on a manual typewriter...
Oh yeah...the era when "emulators" were sold as ISA Cards.
When I was a kid my parents got one of those Mac clones with a PC inside it on a card. It took me a very long time to learn i could right click by holding the option button....
Apple actually and some of those cards too, and the PowerMac 4400 had a version with one of them factory installed.
I also had the Apple PC card, with a Cyrix x586 installed in my old PowerMac 6500. That one , at least did work with my two button mouse.
Man I'm getting bombarded with notifications. Always looking forward to a LGR video.
I know there were various hardware cards for putting a DOS PC into some flavor of Macintosh (i.e., those that had expansion slot(s)), but were there any hardware cards that could drop into an Apple II slot and provide PC capability?
Certainly! One that I have and hope to cover is the PC Transporter: ae.applearchives.com/all_apple_iis/pc_transporter/
Another BIG advantage of the Plus model is that it uses VGA for the video Passthrough. That makes it compatible with more modern PCs and GPUs, avoiding the hassle of doing CGA-VGA conversions
14:52 "stop our farts" i expect nothing less from a tech video
Oh yes, another oddware beauty with good old LGR, this time is a card basically is apple II on a Chip or in a card in the case which by coincidences Apple themselves also made a card that allows you to use the apple II software on a Macintosh specifically on the LC series which I recall from David Murray aka The 8 Bit Guy. This is literally Hackintosh before Hackintosh. Neat
Best retro computer channel on youtube? Yes
What an unbelievable niche product. I love it
I smell copy protection shenanigans being the requirement for high compatibility mode. Look at the 4 am collection, it has detailed writeups on what each game did.
Not only would I want a PCIe version, but one with all the features from each version, carried over into a new one.
The Apple II has been ported to FPGAs awhile ago, it could probably fit on an m.2 card or smaller.
@@WoodStoveEnthusiast Prefer real chips and discrete components, not FPGAs. At least for what I want.
28:47 - Finally! A way to play Zork on an IBM PS/2!
I've only ever played it on the main menu of Call of Duty: Black Ops, it's fully functional and the save feature even works 😳
The addition of the aluminum foil makes this even better. 🤣🤣🤣
And when you're done computing you can wrap sandwiches!
@@LGRor make a hat. 🤣
Amazing how machines can just run multiple architectures using translation layers like Proton and Rosetta now.
Yeah the steam deck is amazing using proton
1:16 Amazing how much more expensive the Apple II is compared with the Ataris. Pick up an old Atari 800 for peanuts, or an Atari 600XL for a fraction of the price of an Apple. I know the monitors were a significant cost, so that's probably part of it.
Although it makes me realize, while the Apple and the other early 6502 pioneers were matched in compute power, Apple has a bunch of expansion slots and opened up 3rd party cards. The Atari 800 had two cartridge slots, the second of which was used so little that it was dropped in later models.
That Trackstar plus is one of the most attractive boards I've ever seen.
Fantastic oddware, thanks!
your doing videos on older computers is neat and also a big help as im trying write a story where some one is stuck in 1971
Keep in mind that in 1971 there were no personal computers at all. The first Apple computer was in 1976, the first Commodore PET (ancestor of VIC-20 and C64) and the TRS-80 were in 1977, and the first IBM PC was in 1981.
as someone born in 1980 in minnesota everytime i see that oregon trail disc and start screen it brings me back to the elementry schools apple 2 lab.
I would love to see you building a PC with like 4 or 5 different cards like this one lol
Its time for a healthy LGR , lets have an Apple
indeed I went to one of the socal schools that was all apple IIs as far as I can remember. SO a lot of love for the old apple II stuff. maybe it's some technical thing I don't understand about how the card works, but interesting that the BASIC prompt was in monochrome and not color? but overall a neat piece of tech!
For sure my "go-to" game for vintage computers
Just woke up and i get a treat like this? Awesome.
Cool stuff, Clint 👌
Those broad black slot brackets are actually what IBM used on earlier expansion cards in their 5150 machines. My 1982 CGA and MDA also have that same weird bracket that only fits in a 5150 case (and maybe also a Kaypro?). If you compare the 5 8-bit expansion slots in a 5150 with the 8 slots from a 5160 you'll see that the spacing between the slots is different. The 5150 fits both the narrow silver and broad black brackets 🙂
Oh I’ve never seen that before! The 5150s do have more space between cards internally but my 5150 cards and brackets are no different in width than other PCs, and the Trackstar doesn’t fit either since the screw hole is in a different place so it can’t screw in… Though my 5150s are not super early models, perhaps IBM changed something by the time mine were built?
EDIT: nope I was wrong!
@@LGR It surprises me that the Trackstar doesn't fit your 5150. It looks like a 5150 bracket but it must be different somehow if it doesn't. My 5150 is a late 1985 unit and my early IBM cards do fit in it.. I guess the Trackstar uses an even different form factor 🙂
Hey you were right, through a combination of metal I didn’t realize was bent and my own lack of attention I missed that it *does* indeed fit a 5150! This is good to know, now I’m on the hunt for some of IBM’s own wider bracketed cards :)
@@LGR Happy hunting! 😃
That's so cool, especially the rgb out
That shirt is incredible 💚🤎💛
Diamond Multimedia's street address in Starnberg seemed familiar, so I had to look that up. SPEA Software AG was originally located there, they were later bought by Diamond. Diamond's FirePro series of workstation graphics cards were designed at the Starnberg HQ. When Diamond went under, ATI bought the Starnberg offices and Fire brand. Renamed ATI Research GmbH, the team became responsible for designing the ATI FireGL line of cards and developing their Linux drivers. The subsidiary is apparently still around, under the same name, at the same street address. Considering the lead devs of AMD's Linux GPU drivers are pretty much all German, I guess that's what AMD's Starnberg office does to this day.
Diamond Trackstar cards were sold by Radio Shack for Tandy
Only the Radio Shack stores that were effective at selling PCs carried peripherals such as TrackStar. Most of the RadioShack stores could special order PCs but couldn't sell through their inventory. There were maybe 15-20 Radio Shacks that could sell through TrackStar because they had employees that were passionate about the platform.
@@jefforr1969 then mine was