A Sound Investment? What to Consider BEFORE YOU BUY | Sennheiser Momentum 4 vs Focal Bathys
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
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- Focal Bathys amzn.to/3qJEDJu
- Sennheiser Momentum 4 amzn.to/3p5bAQ8
RELATED VIDEOS
- Bathys Review • Focal Bathys Review (o...
- Momentum 4 Review • Ambitious update! But ...
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TIMESTAMP
0:00 Intro / Build & Design
1:10 Comfort
2:23 Traveling / Case
2:49 Features
4:15 Noise Canceling & Transparency
5:33 Calls & Mics
5:49 Sound
9:14 Battery
10:00 Conclusions - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
This video just won you a subscriber. You get right to the point and highlight the key differences.
Thank you for the kind words and the sub! I'm glad you found it useful!
Exactly. No tiptoing just straight facts I like that and also subbed
My friend, I'm back to recommend you a last try to the M4s with an EQ I did after some research. To do so, I based my tweaking upon Oratory1990, Crinacle and Rtings meassurements (I'm sure you know them all). You were absolutely right, the sub-bass boost is too much and it ends up masking the mid-mids and upper-mids and, at least to me, being distracting. Then, there's a little dip around 1.5khz which I initially considered a flawed deviation from Harman but I finally think it was intentional to preserve the natural-realistic timbre I love from the M4s. I saw then, by comparing FR curves, that the Bathys (astonishingly precise from bass to upper mids) has a similar dip (just a little above in the range, close to 2khz) and again I think this is to prevent artificial sounding playback.
Well, with all the info, what I did was replicating on Sennheiser's built-in EQ the figures for the 5 sliders according to each meassurement. I took the numbers from Poweramp's autoEQ settings for each one. A/B testing a lot I felt that, even with my beloved Poweramp, the sound was altered (DSP interaction?!) and the soundstage was not as good and I stopped using third party apps for this particular case. Fortunately, I think the 63khz slider can fix that sub-bass issue to a very big extent. I think (and makes sense having so few sliders) that the in-app filters may have small Q factor values so they do affect wide areas around rather than just an specific frequency. After making the three EQs for the three meassurements, the one by Oratory1990 sounded the best and very in place to me. Bass became a tighter and faster, space capabilities improved significantly as well as clarity. And it is zero fatoguing on bass, as it was not the case before. Values as follows:
63hz: -5.4 250hz: -3.1 1khz: 0 4khz: +0.7 8khz: + 0.6
To me those settings made them sound a lot more spacious, precise and agile. However I found myself wating a little more clarity from that 1.5-2khz and, although there's no specific slider for it, rising the 1khz slider to +1db worked very well, at least to my ears (again, I suspect of small Q factor values affecting wider areas). In the same way, I suspect that the -3.1 on the 250 is also lowering the area of 150hz where that "slam efrect" more or less lives. Oratory1990 meassurement and Crinacle's both take the IEF curve as target reference but Rtings take the Harman curve for headphones, so I found myself wanting a little more impact while not wanting to get into masking the mids territory. So, just by hearing (unfortunately I have not gear nor knowledge to support my subjective impressions with objective data), I rised the 250hz slider from -3.1db to -2.6 and it sounds right in place to me now. After that, I rised up the 1khz by half db as well, trying to keep the tonal balance withinthe mids. Therefore, it all ended up like this:
63hz: -5.4 250hz: -2.6 1khz: +1.5 4khz: +0.7 8khz: +0.6
Obviously the bass boost option must be turned off.
I know you're frequently involved into other audio gear analisys but I encourage you to try them, I think you're really going to like it. Go for the first settings if yoy want it more neutral or the second ones if you want it slightly more dynamic.
It won't be at Bathys' level yet but I think it will be certainly closer and better than the stock tuning. Hardware on these cans, in my opinion, is very capable and has very good technical performance (for a BT closed back) with the appropriate EQ.
And I recommend using Aptx HD instedad of adaptive. There's a jump in clarity and separation
I hope you let me know your opinion.
Cheers, nice weekend to all!
YOU, SIR, ARE THE KING!!!! Fantastic write up!!!
@@NorbReviews Mate, I made a little refresh on my settings and I now think Aptx HD is mandatory (even though is a little pain in the ass switching it on android's developer settings every single time). After that, they really step up in terms of resolution and, since the bass becomes tighter, way more controlled and faster I dared to give some weight to it by slightly rising the 63hz slider to -4.2db and the 250hz to -2.7db. I also realized that the mids and treble are more resolving over Aptx HD so I don't feel the need to give that +1db to 1khz abd set it back to zero. Try it too, I think it is even better
Forget about that bass boost I suggested. I went back to the original 63hz and 250hz values and sounds cleaner and better. I'll still keep the 1khz at 0.
Top-notch review! I own both also, and I couldn't agree more.
Thank you!
I loved my M4s... really awesome headphones.
And I just bought a 1 year old pair of Bathys.
There is absolutely no comparison.
I have both and although the Sennheiser is a great headphone the Bathys is another competition sound wise and gets regular software updates including individual sound profiles. Comfort of the Bathys is phenomenal, have them on for hours (11 hour flight) without problems. noise cancelling is slightly better in the momentum 4. focal has some great deals every now and then, got mine for 649€. Great review thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you!
Focal makes incredible products and they are all about sound quality. Thru make amazing home speakers and the best sounding car speakers ever made.
I can’t wait to see their next BT lineup.
Really interesting review ! Right on point. I also preferred the Senn 4. But ended up with the Px7 S2e 🤷♂️
Thanks for the kind words! I haven’t tried the PX7 S2e (or much from Bowers and Wilkins yet), so that’s definitely interesting to know! Why did you choose the PX7 S2e?
Great Rewiev.... Actually I have been looking at your rewievs for a some time. You explain in great detail. After seeing your review there is no need to go anywhere else.... Thanku
LOVE FROM INDIA ❤️
These are among the kindest words I’ve received for my work here. I am humbled. Thank you, very much for this.
Great Review, keep up the good work😎👍
Thanks! 👍
Sennheiser M4 have a much too sensitive touch controls. Either you turn it off on the menu and do all on the playing device (phone, tablet or walkman) or every touch leads to confusing operations (too big volume slides, unwanted transparency mode).
That's a great video 👍
Thank you!
Very nuanced & balanced review. I have the M4 (bought one about 3 months ago and had to get it replaced due to an ANC imbalance). The new firmware and app updates have significantly improved the experience and thankfully have addressed the bugs quite well. I am a bit of a Sennheiser signature sound fanboy but I’m sure the sound quality on the Focal Bathys is something to experience (it better be considering you’re shelling out almost double the price of the M4). All in all the M4s are a great value for money product coming in at that price point and for me the apt comparison will be the XM5 from Sony which it blows out of the water as far as sound quality is concerned. But Sennheiser really need to step up their QC game with the M4s given that I’ve heard (and experienced) so many people complaining about hardware issues.
PS: Do you feel the bass on the Sennheiser M4 is ever so slightly right ear cup dominant? There’s a review by soundguys which also says so…
Thank you for the kind words. I’m 100% with you on the Sennheiser sound preference. As for the Bathys, it’s all about the nuance with them (and the sound is so relaxing!). As for bass dominance on the M4, I haven’t noticed it myself, but now I’m curious about it.
Wow what an incredible review. Finally found the comparison I was looking ! - you must be one of the very few reviewers which isn’t biased at all. I think I’m going with the momentum 4s
Thank you for the kind words!
Incredible review! I can really sense the passion in your content, and your drive to deliver helpful information to your viewers. I've subscribed today :) Also thank you for the way you present these headphones in terms of build and sound signature, you articulate it incredibly well - I don't feel much need to dig deeper with the way you present things.
You've probably been asked this a ton, but how would you compare the M4 to the Sony XM5, purely in terms of sound quality? I'm facing the decision in choosing between the two, and I'm sure many others are too. Does the M4 destroy the XM5 in quality like some say, or is it more nuanced than that? You've mention LDAC a lot, is it truly noticebly far more superior than using the AptX codecs? Hope you don't mind the question :)
Thank you for the kind words! And please, I always welcome questions. (Side note: I really need to finally get that M4 Vs XM5 video out. It’s such a common question!)
Soundwise, M4 > XM5, even with adjusting the EQ. (I made a video on that, too, I’d you want to check it out.)The difference with LDAC is noticeable on the XM5, but the M4 is just a better overall sound to me, with greater detail. The M4 is more bass-heavy than the XM5 (especially subbass), but it still keeps a clarity and spaciousness (for a closed back) that the XM5 doesn’t quite match.
@@NorbReviews Thank you for the response, very sweet! My Momentums just arrived yesterday evening and I'm very happy with them, I feel that the firmware updates have fixed much of the issues that were reported so much last year. Everything you mentioned about sound, build, and comfort seems to stand true.
I was torn between the B&W PX7 S2s, the XM5s, and these Momentums. I think a comparison of those three would be appealing, could even throw in the QC45s too. All are similarly priced.
I found it very interesting how different reviewers reported the sound of the Momentums, some calling them 'neutral'(?!) and others saying they're very bass-heavy. Overall, quite happy with the choice I've made so far.
@@nathan_gk Very awesome to hear!
I’ll be doing a comparison between the XM5 and M4. I hadn’t planned on one between the M4 and QC45, but may do that, too.
I try to avoid reviewing more than 2 items unless there’s a specific purpose (like my most recent video, which talks about the QC45 and XM5-and touches on the M4-in the context of travel). It just feels too all-over-the-place when I’ve done and seen that.
As for the PX7s2, I don’t own those, but may pick them up. I’ve been checking out the Beats Studio Pro because I’d heard SUCH DIVERGING OPINIONS that I just had to get my hands on them to see what was up, so I don’t think the PX7s2 are in the cards, but I may change my mind after this set of reviews. Before that, though, I really want to get some comparisons out of the way!
Thank you again for watching and for keeping me informed! Best of luck!
Tried both. Kept the M4s
Thanks. Great comparison. Could you share which amongst the wireless ones has the best soundstage and instrument separation. Agree it may be worse of than wired ones, but looking for best amongst the lot. Thanks.
Hey Anshul, I answered your other post, but the Apple AirPods Max for Apple devices or the Sony XM5 for Reality 360 devices and services. I prefer the APMs.
Hey, very nice in dept review ! I'm really considering buying the M4's. Would you say the bass is punchy enough on it to make ears vibrate ? I really like to feel my head rumble and have punchy bass like Sony XM3 used to do.
Hey, thanks for the kind words and for watching! I think it is, especially if you push up the bass options in the EQ, and this is already a bass-leaning headphone.
Hello, thanks for the review. I'm thinking of buying headphones and I can't choose between XM5 and M4. M4 has very nice features, but the bugs you mention in your videos drive me crazy, but the noise canceling level over the headphones is a very nice feature and you say that most of these bugs have been fixed. I'm an average user and I love the technological features, but in addition to the error-free ones, I'm on public transport and on the plane a lot, do you have any suggestions for me? I would love for you to compare the reviews and comparisons of these headphones, thanks in advance.
First, thank you for the kind words, for watching, and for asking and the question! Actually the XM5 vs M4 review is one I’m working on now. (Also Bathys vs AirPods Max.)
For you, based on what you’ve said, I’d suggest the XM5, simply because of the ANC: you will appreciate it during your travels. In the end, I don’t think you can go wrong with either, as both are fantastic.
One tip: I have a video on tuning the XM5 for better sound which I think is the best way to get the most out of the XM5. th-cam.com/video/JqPn_S0nJ4s/w-d-xo.html
I hope you find this useful.
And just as another shameless plug:
- XM5 review: th-cam.com/video/FQeEHAIA3H4/w-d-xo.html
- M4 review: th-cam.com/video/RtUq_6ifOSs/w-d-xo.html
And. the price makes SENNM4 the best over all headphones❤😊
Got these as my upgrade to my PXC 550-II. They are definitely sounding good, especially considering I really like Sennheiser sound signature, have their wired includinh HD600 and HD58x, true wireless as well, but PXC were much more neutral sounding which I really appreciated. These are more "jam" curved but still much better than the hyped XM4/XM5 and for me better than PX7/8, but not better than Focal Bathys but then they are much costlier and bulkier. Comfort is really good, no love lost compared to awesome PXC 550-II fit and weight. I ended up tweaking the EQ after all and settled with -1.5 points on bass, +1treble, still undecided on mids, probably +0.5-1.0. Soundstage is much wider than PXC 550-II.
100% agreed with all of this.
Fun fact: the PXC 550-II was one of the first sets I was going to review on this channel, after the Momentum 3 and XM4. But my wife got a hold of them and loved them so much that now they’re hers. She **ADORES** them.
And thanks for the settings! Have you updated to the new app? They now have 5 bands, not just 3.
@@NorbReviews Yup, I did upgrade the firmware and app with -1.5db, +1 db, +1db, +1.5db, +1.5db. Sounds about right to me.
Hi!
I'm considering buying either the M4s or the PXC 550-ii (used).
1) Would you say the M4s are substantially better in sound quality?
2) And regarding the PXC 550-ii, do they sound bad with ANC off? While at the office I need to hear some of my surroundings at least, and ambient mode is not compatible with music right?
I can get the PXC for about half of what I would pay for the M4s, but unfortunately I can't tesr the sound of the PXC 550-ii before buying :(
Really interested in the pros and cons, especially given that I'm afraid the M4s will be too bulky for my daily walking commute under the hot sun 😅
Thank you very much in advance for any advice!
@@ocnarfyt6563 I would definitely not recommend the M4’s if walking around in the hot sun. I talk about that in my review: I got a lot of ear heat. You can see the review here:
th-cam.com/video/RtUq_6ifOSs/w-d-xo.html
As for the PXC’s, how big is your head? They run small, and I have to wear them at full extension to use them comfortably.
The sound on the PXC and Momentum 4 are VERY different. Both are good. “Better” depends on how much bass you like. Momentum 4 is bass-heavy. PXC’s have more of the classic Sennheiser sound.
I honestly don’t know which to recommend to you. I’m not sure either of these is a good option. I might suggest the Bose QC45 or QC35ii instead, since they run cooler than the Momentum 4, have a better size than the PXC, and sound very good. My review is here:
th-cam.com/video/p-jja6SMhr4/w-d-xo.html
@@NorbReviews thank you very much for taking the time to reply so thoughtfully!
I don't think I have a particularly big head, so maybe the 550-IIs would fit fine...
Problem is I can't get the QC45 for a decent price here, just the 35-II, which I understand are not as good sound quality wise as the 550-II.
I'll definitely check your review of the qc35-ii out, too bad I can't test them as they don't retail at stores here.
Thank you again for the advice!
Depending on the music I turn down the bass on the momentum 4. I tried out the Bathy's but after the Sound firmware update on the Sennheiser momentum 4. They just sound better to me.
They definitely punch way above their price point.
The only issue I dont want in my sennheiser m4 is the transprency mode. I wish its the same with apple airpods transparency mode. But overall its perfect for me.
Great comparison. I'm a big fan of the Momentum 4. Just a bit worried (paranoid) about DAC mode on BT headphones in general. It may sound ridiculous, but if they're charging while listening in DAC mode, a faulty battery could blow up on your head. Good thing Bathys does NOT charge while in DAC mode. (There, I finally had something good to say about Bathys 😂).
Thank you for the kind words! I agree about the faulty battery thing, and it's something I worry about, too, not just while connected, but all the time: the batteries on most BT headphones can't be replaced, so you don't really know when that battery has turned into a spicy pillow. Having it plugged in makes it that much scarier. I hadn't considered that angle. And if it got you to say something good about the Bathys... man, that's big!
@@NorbReviews I guess even though one can still listen to Bathys in BT mode while it's charging, I wouldn't even dare. I know that reported incidents of exploding BT headphones (on head!) while charging only involved off-brand stuff, but battery is battery. I mean those exploding Samsung phone batteries were also being charged when it happened.
I agree with Nathan... also, I won't listen to an AI narrator. Thanks for the thorough review.
I had disconnect issues on the M4. They would just randomly disconnect every hour or so.
Fortunately it happened 2 days before my return period expired.
Considering the bathys as an upgrade.
Sorry for replying so late, but I’d definitely give them a try. Very different headphones, but I just adore mine.
i do believe Momentum 2.0 better than momentum 4.0 and i have momentum 2.0 for last 5 years after that review i do believe i dont need to spend any single penny to another headphones like Baths. thanks for saving my money it was a great review :D but i am thinking to get MG Clear as they are different beast :)
Glad to found it useful! And yeah, the Clears are VERY different!
Amazing review!!! Which do you think is better at overall SONY XM5 or MOMENTUM 4? (For the same price) I can't decide between them, hope you had an amazing day!
Thanks for the kind words! I'm actually going to do a video on this, but it's a difficult question. The XM5 will give you better ANC plus LDAC, but the Momentum 4 give you better battery and sound. It's really up to what you prefer.
Watching this video with Bathys ❤
I hope you’re loving them! And thank you for watching!
love the reviwe . i was wondering I'm momentum is the usb-c to 3.5mm capal included in the box? or it is just an adapter
No, the Momentum has a USB-A to USB-C and a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cables included. You’d have to get the USB-C to 3.5mm separately.
@@NorbReviews and the usb-c to usb-a have better sound than the 2.5mm to 3.5mm?
@@xhassan496 Yes. MUCH better. In fact, I talk a bit about that here: th-cam.com/video/RtUq_6ifOSs/w-d-xo.html in the sound section.
Dear Norb, I'm seriously considering the M4s because of the sound they can produce. I wish I could afford the Bathys but, even if I could, my wife would kill me if I get to spend such amount on headphones😂. I'm serously concerned about those bugs. Apparently, the recent users' feedback says they have addressed the problems to a nearly conmplete level but I wondet if you could tell us how they're behaving now? As for the sound, after checkking several measurements, they're very Harman-ish, about +10/12 sub-bass, nearly flat upper bass and everything above goes pretty close to the Harman curve. That should sound very well. However I don't like Harman's sub bass rumble, so I guess tuning down that area should give tighter-quicker bass. Apparently the sound check gives you the chance to set a more neutral bass and now the EQ has 5 bands so more filters are available. I had the momentum 3s and had to return them as they were very uncomfortable to me, loved how they sound though. It seems that the M4s are very comfortable for almost everybody so that's appealing to me. They're often on sale for just 250€ now in Europe so I guess that's a great price. I'm certainly going for the copper or denim colour hoping for better QC on the newest units as well as avoiding an older stock unit. Have a nice weekend you all friends!
Thanks for the excellent question!
1. So, as a reviewer, I spend a lot of time testing other sets, so I don’t use always an individual headphone as heavily as others might. This includes the M4, which I only use occasionally for my personal use. If issues are emergent on the long term, I haven’t experienced them.
That said, from my personal experience, I haven’t run into that many issues, but you’re right to be concerned, as the volume of complaints is definitively something to consider. (However, I believe a lot of these issues are overblown, as happens on the internet. Also, most of the issues I’ve seen actually reported are from 2022.)
I do think there’s a QC issue with the M4, but either the issues happen immediately (meaning you can usually exchange), or if they happen long term, Sennheiser has a 2 year warranty. In my case, my first pair failed in a day. I had preordered mine, and exchanged them for another pair. That pair hasn’t had hardware issues, and the software issues I mentioned in my Momentum 4 video (where I compare it to the 3) have been much improved.
In short: it’s understandable to be concerned, but I wouldn’t let that stop me, and in fact. I still recommend them. I think there’s more noise than signal at times, more heat than light. Except for my first pair, all my issues have been software issues, and the majority fixed. At most, they’re small annoyances, if they’re issues at all.
2. I’m far more concerned about the bass: it’s really a defining feature here, and even at the lowest, the earpads will impact this sound, I think. You can definitely tune them down, but I’m not sure if it’ll be enough. If you can try them first, or buy and return, it’s worth testing.
If you like Harman, with maybe a bit less bass, have you looked at the AKG 371bt?
If you don’t need all the features, the JBL 710BT is also a consideration. For $80, the sound on these is magnificent. They advertise being “Pure Bass”, but the bass here is pure as in “clean”, not pure as in “only”. The AKG 361bt is also an option. Both of these are Harman tuned.
3. For the M3 (which is arguably my favorite sounding pair of headphones), i was eventually able to make them more comfortable with a headband cover and ear covers. (I call out the comfort issue in the m3, which was my first review on yours channel). I can’t promise this will work for you, but it’s something may want to consider.
Best of luck, and please let me know what you decide!
@@NorbReviews thanks a lot!
Well, I tried the M4s but just for 2 or 3 minutes at the mall with no app and I dont even know if the sound was the original or someone tweaked and saved it before I tried them so I can't judge it. I did try the JBLs and I loved my tune 110bt in ears, very clean and punchy sound for cheap. The 710s where ok but the earcups were too small. Then the snowball got bigger and bigger and I then considered the tune 770nc amd the 1more Sonoflows. It then got bigger again and considered the JBL Live 770nc and the Accentums but, appsrently they're both quite uncomfortable. And, finally the ball got as big as it could and my favourite options are now the M4s and the JBL Tour One M2, which are obviously very harman-ish and very comfortable too. The thing is that I'm expecting better technicalities coming from the M4's hardware (angled 42mm drivers and what I expect to be a good dsp and internal dac) as well as a good sturdy construction. I also read in many places that the timber and tone are very good, things I'm really looking for after two years of listening to a BA driver. And I want them to sound good, ceratainly. Listening to binaural samples they did not sound that bass heavy to me but that's obviously not accurate to reality. I will go for any option on Amazon so I have my back covered. If the expensive ones can't make me happy I'll go for something cheaper (and comfortable) so I can play and tweak through poweramp.
My friend. I finally got my M4s and I'm really in love with them! Obviously I can't compare them to the Bathys but I think that the fact of being compared to the Bathys by you and a few other reviewers is pretty honorable for a headphone that is about a third of the price (249€ in my case for the Copper SE).
Two important aspects to highlight:
1. My unit works absolutely flawlessly. Every feature works incredibly well so I guess QC improved on newer units after so many complaints and units replaced all over the world. The app works perfectly and, at the current time, there's only a bug I could find. When the wind reduction is on it completely disables ANC (nice paradox😂). Not a dealbreaker for me, the adaptive mode is great for me. Haven't tried multipoint as I never need it, so I can't be of any help in that regard.
2. Yes, the sub bass is too much but I really recall the M3s sounding a lot bassier, boxy and certainly narrower. I don't know if it's just me but, even though the M3s meassure less bassy they sounded a lot bassier to me and less clear. That said, the EQ worked wonders to me. I found a user on reddit suggesting -2,7 0 +2 +2 0 for a more "audiophile" tuning and it was noticeably improved to my ears. I think these are already very well tuned from mids to highs and too overboosted on the bass so it was pretty easy fixing that area.
Give it a try if you have the time!
Obviously, hardware on the Bathys must outperform the M4s but I think the M4s are great sounding ANC BT headphones for 250€
Sennheiser Momentum 4 is hard to beat on value, ANC, battery and Sound quality. They don't look the best but they have good value.
I personally find the momentum 4's to look better.
Could you please compare the sony wh-1000xm5 to the sennheiser momemtum 4? That would be super insightful and much apreciated🙏😌
I’ve started working on this review I have a few pieces to edit before then, but this is a common enough request that I’ll be making it.
I have the M4 and while I do think they are absolutely great sounding for the price I feel the build quality is lacking, The right yoke is making a creaking noise which drives me nuts! The build quality on M3 was wayy better. I also have Airpods Max which are awesome for me since I am an all Apple guy, but the battery life, comfort and sound quality are not up to my M4. And today I ordered a pair of Bathys, maybe these will fill the gaps of both M4 and Airpods Max. Most likely be keeping all of them though since they all have their upsides. Thanks for your insights!
First, thank you for watching and the comment! As for the M4, this… sounds right. The build quality I found to be OK, but I can definitely hear where you’re coming from. I agree with the APM comparison. As for the Bathys… NGL, I love mine, but have a few small issues. They sound way different than either the APMs and the M4’s, so having all 3 I think is not a bad choice!
The only thing I’d say is that, if you’re going to go this route, consider making the jump to wired headphones. There’s a LOT of *GREAT* stuff there, and the bang for the buck tends to be better.
Mine too, seems mine it's wider in the right side so there is more play and more plastic on plastic contact. I will be returning them and I'll compare it to the replacement. Some suggest graphite (from pencils) to silicone based lubricants to fix it. Hope it helps.
had way too many problems with my first pair of momentum 4s which i returned for repairs and turned out to be unrepairable so i'm not risking wasting my time any longer ill try something else and the focal bathys isnt really convincing me, i appreciate the higher quality materials but what i'm ultimately looking for is sound quality/reliability for the money
Ouch. Sounds like a bad time. I’d be there sans way. I’ve been having luck with the Bose QC Ultra (review upcoming), so tossing that suggestion in here. (It’s also $379 right now: amzn.to/4bxRyRH). Beyond that, keep an eye out at Bowers & Wilkins’s website: the PX8 refurb keeps dropping to about half its retail price, making it a pretty solid deal (www.bowerswilkins.com/en-us/product/over-ear-headphones/px8/301000-refurbished.html)
Thanks for the review. Fast talker! I had the Momentum 4 and returned them due to the issues mentioned. TH-camrs crack me up with "Price Point" and not price. And "Merch" instead of merchandise. Who makes this stuff up?
I dont think going into power saving mode when put in its case trumps a physical off switch. Each to their own though.
Both can be switched on/off physically. The Bathys have an actual switch vs the Momentum 4, where you press the power button for a few seconds. The M4 just have a better power management scheme in addition to this.
I own a pair of the m4s, I also owned the previous version. The momentum 3 had much better sound quality, specifically bass quality and quantity. so naturally I was a bit disappointed when I got the 4s and they had a more mass market tuning. I’ve also tried the bathys and it was definitely the closest I’ve heard Bluetooth headphones get to my wired audiophile headphones (58x, 660s, aria stealth). All that being said the m4 is still pretty good for the price and the battery is amazing , I only charge it once every 2 weeks and I still see it as a decent purchase but I have definitely been tempted to get myself a pair of bathys after hearing them.
A moment of silence for your wallet. :-D
Seriously, I’m right there with you, 100%. I have the Ananda Stealth, Focal Clear, and the PC38X, and the Bathys are right at home, as are both the Momentum 3 and 4. I still hold that the Momentum 3 are the best sounding headphones at that price range, despite their age. They just don’t have much battery or ANC.
What about the momentum 4, would they stand to the same quality as wired headphones would in the same price category? Do they fall really behind?
Generally speaking, wired will always be better, dollar for dollar, than wireless. Remember, wireless has to account for things like batteries and BT antennas. What you're buying with wireless is flexibility. And for that, you give up some sound.
The Momentum 4 *ARE* fantastic, though, especially when using USB-C, and it may satisfy you at an equal level to wired headphones, but for $349, I'd almost prefer a pair of Fostex T60RP (the poor man's LCD-X), if I'm going to go wired. In fairness, I prefer open back when wired because it creates that spaciousness that is nearly impossible to get from closed back headphones.
@@NorbReviews Many thanks for the reply, when you put it way, it makes lot of sense. I'll definitely try looking into both when making the decision! 😊
I wish to listen to all sounds with Bluetooth, audio jack, and USB-C to find out the differences.
I use my headphones wired for the best quality sound. Can the M4's EQ be adjusted while using the usb-c/DAC connection? Also, does going usb-c (android phone) to usb-c (momentum 4) provide the best spund for the headphone? I get so confused with this stuff.
1. It can, as the M4 stays connected via BT even after it’s in DAC (USB-C) mode.
2. Yes, that provides the best sound.
And yes, it CAN be confusing!
@NorbReviews Awesome, thanks for the reply!! I just realized lack of LDAC only applies to Bluetooth, lol. So, I guess the only downside is no off setting for ANC or transparency mode. I'll look around to see if I can test these somewhere.
Which one do you think sounds better for movies? the Sony XM5, or the Sennheiser Momentum 4? without taking into account the 360 audio that the Sony has the option of, cuz lets be real, the 360 audio is mostly not practical, also has your experience with the Sennheiser Momentum 4 been smooth? because i have seen a lot of complaints about it being bugged and the features not working and it being clunky and not smooth overall and the app causing problems, have you experienced any of that?
Momentum 4.
The issues with it have gotten better (I’ve had my own issues, but they’ve gotten better), but I also still hear about the complaints.
@@NorbReviews are the issues hardware related? or software related? because with software you can always hope that they will fix it with updates and fixing the programming problems, but with hardware, its doomed..
I just think that the m4 is much better for me since they only cost £250 vs £700 on bathys and the m4 is very close to sound quality aswell for a lower price
Hi good review as always👍 is there much difference in the volume?, plus the moment 4 if you use usbc to listen is it much better than Bluetooth in quality,volume?
Hey, Anthony! Thank you for the very kind words!
On Bluetooth, volume on both is about the same. I felt it was decent. I've never felt the need to max it out, but I tend to be VERY protective of my hearing. (I listen at 50-65dB most of the time.)
Wired is another story: That depends on what you have it connected to. For example, to research this comment, I connected the Momentum 4 to my Macbook then fired up Qobuz. Qobuz doesn't use the system volume, and I needed to enter the settings to control the volume of the Momentum 4. Long story short, it got RIDICULOUSLY LOUD without any noticeable distortion. (But then, I took them off pretty quickly -- way too loud for anyone who isn't hard of hearing!)
As for quality, YES, it's way better using USB-C than through bluetooth, both for volume and because you start getting more of a deeper, more detailed sound. It sounds livelier.
Just to add to what @NorbReviews has already mentioned, YMMV when it comes to the sound quality difference between BT and USB, primarily due to one aspect of the lossless (wired) vs. lossy (BT) sound: some people's hearing acuity above 10 KHz, where much of the difference lies, are no longer perfect, a natural part of aging and also depends on how one takes care of their hearing. 😄.
There are gains that are universal, though, which is on dynamic range. I have the M4, and they are indeed very dynamic. But as I mentioned in another comment, I'm paranoid about using BT headphones while charging, and the M4 unfortunately charges while listening via USB-C. Plus it will drain your phone if that's what you listen with via USB-C. I haven't explored the Sennheiser app if there's a way to turn off charging when listening via USB-C, but I doubt that.
Can I use the sennheiser momentum 4 wireless to listen to music while I'm walking or maybe if I sweat they can be damaged?
They should be fine for a walk, even with some sweat, unless it’s a lot of sweat (like if you’re running a few miles in the heat). Just always be sure to clean them off afterward.
If you plan to do that a lot, get yourself some ear covers for sweat. Geekria has some (amzn.to/4bUJWZn), but there are others that will help reduce the amount of sweat that makes its way in.
Thanks a lot for the answer!
They should really come out with a wired version of the Bathy's.
There’s at least one reviewer out there who says that the Bathys served the same purpose for him as the Focal Radiance. I’m not familiar with the Radiance, but he’s someone I trust.
They have wired versions - called Celestee
I just ordered the Momentum 4 but was debating between the B&W PX8 and Airpod Max. Have you compared these to the Sennheisers?
I own the APM, but haven’t used the PX8, so can’t comment on that.
My Momentum 4 review actually does a small comparison against the Momentum 4, and I’m working on a video for this (but it’ll be a while before it comes out because I’m slow and don’t have a ton of time to film.)
Short of it: they both sound excellent but different. The user experience on the APMs is generally better, but M4 does well here, too. Both are fine choices.
the monetum 4s are giving me what i wanted. dont know about the focals
TBH, if the M4 are giving you what you want, no need to look at the Bathys.
I go for SEN M4 for sure❤
But the connectivity issues though, it’s so wide known
Same here.
@@BobbyG3.14they don't have connectivity issues anymore. It was fixed with a firmware update.
@@BobbyG3.14 I don't have any problems like that
Should I get the momentum 4 Bose qc bathys or px7s2e???
I have a review on the Bose QC Ultra coming up soon (it’s done, I just have to edit it, so about a week). Except for the S2e, I’ve reviewed the others and you can judge from those videos.
But in short, what’s important to you? Each of these will satisfy a different kind of person.
@@NorbReviews meh I’m just gonna get the px7s2e because I’ve heard they are better than the M4 Bose qc etc but bathys and px7s2e can rival the bathys in my opinion they both expensive they have 30 hours excellent ANC both are premium etc
I cannot seem to find an old school Hifi Headphone ( good Quality) without a battery inside so it light weight, since It draw power from a 3.5mm and I could plug it in to a adapter USB-C ( Iphone 15 Pro).
There are plenty of excellent, hifi, old school wired headphones that fit exactly what you’re looking for. The question is, what the price range you want? Off the top of my head, the Koss KPH30i ($30), the Sony MDR7506 ($80), the Sennheiser HD 599 ($130), the Meze 99 Neo ($199), the Hifiman Ananda Stealth ($399). There are hundreds more at those ranges and above.
Thanks for the suggestions! Norb
i have a question, the bathys are currently 550 dollars, and the sennheisers at 300, which one should i get at this price point? are the bathys 200$ better?
Thanks for the question! Depends on what you’ll be doing and whether $200 is really a huge deal for you. Honestly, I think both are good for specific reasons, as I mentioned at the end of the video. Whether the Bathys is $200 better than the M4’s is really up to you and how you plan to use them.
@@NorbReviews Tysm
My momentum 4 is broke… right side the sound cracking 💔 i just only use while gym and stay keep on ear, idk im sad, i just bought it yesterday 💔
First, these headphones are *NOT* meant for the gym. If the sound is cracking, there may have been too much sweat going in. Or it may be a faulty unit. If you just bought it yesterday, can you return it? If not, you can contact Sennheiser: they have a 2 year warranty on products.
Best of luck, and sorry you’re going through this.
Do Sennheiser release firmware updates with fixes? M4 aren't that new...
I’ve had a better experience recently than at first, and they’ve delivered updates, including a new EQ.
@@NorbReviews that gives us hope to get polished product eventually 🙏
Yeah but the m4's have imbalanced drivers so that's an automatic fail. The left and right need to be in sync for it to be considered a good headphones
Is this something you’ve experienced?
I’ve tried with mine, but they sound pretty even to me. That’s not to say it’s not there, just that I haven’t really noticed it in any significant way.
I’ve seen some graphs and some align on there being a difference between L/R at around the 2-5k range, but it’s not uniform. I wonder if this is a widespread QC issue rather than a design issue.
have you done a xm5 vs momentum 4 video?
Not yet. I have the script written, but life keeps getting in the way. It’s on my list for the near future. But in the meantime, got any specific questions? I’ll answer as best as I can, if you’re trying to decide.
The fact the Focals dont have aptx loses or ldac is insane
AptX Lossless was still under development when the Bathys were released. I think Focal skipped LDAC because more devices cast to aptX than LDAC. But I agree, I would have preferred LDAC.
Which is LOUDER? I swear all the headphone reviews I watch no one ever talks about volume
This is a fair point, and I've neglected to add a volume meter to my tests. As a result of this comment, I'm actually picking one up now, so I can begin including this as part of reviews in the future.
That said, while both of these were "about the same" for me, and they both register about the same, the Momentum 4 may come off as louder for 2 reasons: (a) because of how they're tuned (reference the Fletcher Munsen equal loudness curve) and (b) because it has better isolation, which means less dispursion (even though I specifically mention this in my Momentum 4 review, mostly as a function of the ANC not being strong enough). If you want LOUD, however, there are better options than these, as neither of these gets particularly loud. I find the Sony headphones to go louder than either of these, largely because of their excellent noise canceling. To this end, the XM4 is probably a better choice for you.
Best of luck.
@@NorbReviews ty for the reply…
bathys vs xm5 ANC?
Xm5
Step 1. Buy the Momentum 4's
Step 2. Press Play : Viagra Boys "Research Chemicals"
Step 3. Remove drawers
Step 4. Dance appropriately
(don't mock it until you've tried it)
Something to consider before buying the momentum 4, no way to turn anc/transparancy off, it caused me severe ears problems. Like eustachian tube stucked for 6 Months and still IS. The touch controls are bugging, the conection between devices isnt flawless at all, finally sound quality, it's muddy, there's a lot of bass but it's the sub bass, so the bass has no texture,and it causes the whole sound to be vague. and there IS no way to fix that with the 3 bands (lol) EQ. Also clamping force is strong. This device is marketing like a lot of others. Even a m50x will do such a better sounding job.
Yikes! You’ve been having some issues!
One note: if the touch controls are bulging, contact support right away and don’t use them: that might indicate that the battery is getting fat. It’s dangerous to use.
Best of luck.
You’re definitely the minority my guy. Sounds like you’re faulty not the headphones lol
haha this guy's ear is stucked lol its so funny. he is probably the problem lol haha lol@@wm1573
get a life@@wm1573
600E vs 300E not so fair :)
You’re right. Sennheiser did much better than headphones of that price should have!
Though they get a bad rap, the Skullcandy Crusher Wireless sound great with the bass slider turned all the way to the off position. For $100.00 they sound great with Audiophile or higher end recordings and movies. You should try.
Hi Mark, thanks for watching! I actually did a review of the Crusher a while back. th-cam.com/video/pg9v-jyWKEw/w-d-xo.html - I liked them!
Both are overpriced..
You're just poor..
Lol go make cheaper and better ones then my guy.
If they're overpriced, no one would buy sony headphones.
Bro buy china’s headphones.
Coming back to this, and sorry for not replying before. Both have dropped in price some. In the case of the M4, it's dropped in price a lot, $250 right now. If that's still too high -- and yes, that's a lot of money -- I *HIGHLY* recommend either the JBL 710BT, which is ridiculously great sounding for just $80, or the SoundCore line (especially the Q45 for sound, but the Q30 for comfort and cost). Note that I plan to do videos on all those, and there's a reason I recommend them all.
Best of luck.