CNC Milling Double Sided PCBs Using Eagle, FlatCam and GRBL/Candle, Step by Step Detailed Guide
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Step by Step guide on how to mill your own circuit boards using Eagle PCB (or any other software that will produce gerber and drill files, e.g. KiCad) , then how to use FlatCam to generate the G-CODE files and finally machining the board using Candle/GRBL.
00:00 Intro/Eagle PCB Schematic
00:41 Eagle PCB - Board Layout
01:39 Eagle PCB - Export Gerber and Drill files
02:28 FlatCam - Intro
03:54 FlatCam - 2 layer alignment drills
07:05 FlatCam - Top layer engraving
09:35 FlatCam - Bottom layer engraving.
10:08 FlatCam - Drill configuration
11:29 FlatCam - Board cutout
13:16 CNC Intro
15:00 CNC - Candle Intro - Drilling alignment holes
15:51 CNC - Top side engraving
18:54 CNC - Flip the board
19:27 CNC - Engrave bottom side
20:57 CNC - Drilling
23:09 CNC - Board Cutout
25:46 Completed Board - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Detailed step by step guide on how to get decent results milling PCBs.
Quick Reference:
00:00 Intro/Eagle PCB Schematic
00:41 Eagle PCB - Board Layout
01:39 Eagle PCB - Export Gerber and Drill files
02:28 FlatCam - Intro
03:54 FlatCam - 2 layer alignment drills
07:05 FlatCam - Top layer engraving
09:35 FlatCam - Bottom layer engraving.
10:08 FlatCam - Drill configuration
11:29 FlatCam - Board cutout
13:16 CNC Intro
15:00 CNC - Candle Intro - Drilling alignment holes
15:51 CNC - Top side engraving
18:54 CNC - Flip the board
19:27 CNC - Engrave bottom side
20:57 CNC - Drilling
23:09 CNC - Board Cutout
25:46 Completed Board
Great step-by-step tutorial, exactly was I was looking for. Many thanks for sharing!
Love your step by step guide, exactly what i have searching for. GJ!! Its time to get my new CNC involved :)
Thanks, have fun making circuit boards on your new CNC.
Wow, that water trick was worth the price of admission. Thanks for your excellent video!
Thanks! happy you enjoyed the video.
Many Thanks for teaching FlatCam. The best Tutorial in the Internet!
This video is the most detailed and best described/demonstrated example of how to use Candle that I've been able to find. Thank you so much. I'll be sharing this link with my maker-mates.
Thanks, always happy to hear it was useful.
Wow. One of the best tutorials I've ever seen. Clear, understandable, detailed and to the point. Excellent job. And you are one of the few youtubers that replies on comments and questions. Thanks a lot.
Thanks, much appreciated. I'm happy people are finding my little guide useful.
Cheers,
Jake
Thank you so much! You are super good at explaining and presentation. Wunderbar.
Thank you kindly!
Thanks for sharing this video, Jake. Very helpful to see your whole toolchain and order of operations, step-by-step. I appreciate the small tips like soldering an easy-to-grab resistor to the stock for probing. Definitely going to give Candle a try after some challenges with Chilipeppr.
Thanks, yeah I'm pretty happy with the GRBL controller and Candle, although I'm not sure if the Candle software is still being updated.
Cheers,
Jake
If you're making rectangular boards you can always mill away the copper on the board edges, then score the exposed board material with a utility knife and snap them apart. Very good tutorial. Thank you.
Thanks, it's a good suggestion. It's also quite popular to use a guillotine cutter, but using the CNC for cutout is very convenient even with the mess from adding water, it always gives very precise dimensions in any shape.
Cheers,
Jake
Nice video, very helpful. Thanks!
I think Candle/GRBR deserves more attention. It's the only tool I see that does that "z-mapping", which is essential to getting good PCB routing. I'd like to learn more about how he's doing that using the "jumper wires" we see. I suspect it completes a circuit as he base is an insulator (wood). Please discuss this in another video? Thanks.
Hi Richard, to use the auto level feature you need a GRBL board that supports this feature. Most new (GRBL 1.1) boards have this feature and as you suspected it just works like another limit switch letting the software know once the circuit is completed to measure the height.
I can do a more detailed video on it as a few people have been asking about this feature. It's essential to use this feature for good circuit board engraving results.
Cheers,
Jake
Thanks for this video. Very detailed and exactly the information I was looking for, since the flatcam documentation on double sided processing is way out of date.
Thanks, yeah Flatcam is a very nice piece of software, but it's a bit quirky and not super intuitive.
Very-very useful. Thank you very much!
Thanks!
Thanks for the video, great content
Glad you enjoyed it!
love the video!
I would have never thought of using water to help with the board cutout!
I've been using CopperCAM, but it has issues. I like that Height Mapping feature! I have problems doing my routing because I wasn't doing this. I'd like learn how he did that
Very good Sir 😊
Great video, I'm new to flatcam but I suddenly appreciate it :) what layer do you use to write text in Eagle?
Excellent, Thank you!
Glad to hear it was helpful.
Cheers,
Jake
Very well done and precisely what I was hoping to find; a well explained tool chain demonstrating two-sided PCB milling + auto-leveling with a GRBL-based CNC controller. I have a couple of questions:
1. For the drill holes, how does your CNC+Candle handle the Tool Change command (does it pause and wait for user input before proceeding)?.
2. Did you need to initiate an explicit Z-Probe operation after each (drill) Tool Change (starting @ time 22:20) before resuming the job?
Thanks Manny,
1. Yes, Candle will pause and you have to click continue when you are ready. The tool change position can be configured in FlatCam. I use x,y at 0,0 and then raise Z to 30 mm for tool change plus I have my spindle controlled by the GRBL board so it will auto start/stop for tool change.
2. No need, I always use drill bits with a fixed collar, those are in my experience accurate to within half a mm. Just make sure the bits are seated all the way in and your travel is high enough off the board (I use 1mm, but you could use 2mm) to make sure the drill bits don't crash if the board is uneven. Plus I always drill ~1 mm deeper than the board thickness, to make sure the drill tip makes it all the way through even if there are slight variations in the drill collar position and board height.
Cheers, Jake
Very usefull
Great video..!! Thanks for sharing. Where did you find the alignment pins? And what did you use for cleaning the board. You said don't use sandpaper but ...?
I use some hardened 1.5 mm pins made from some 100mm rods I bought online, they were quite cheap, just grind a mark in them and then you can break them off in small pieces. I always use Scotch pads to clean my boards, it's rough enough to remove small burs but wont damage the boards.
Love the video.
Using bCNC myself and got a bit annoyed with it : seems to lose the height map when running the milling :
1st auto level,
2nd drilling the holes to avoid problems
3rd milling the tracks
4th doing the edge cuts.
Thanks, I've only looked at bCNC, I haven't actually tried using it. I kind of went directly from EMC2/LinuxCNC to Candle/GRBL when it became too much trouble to keep my old PC with a parallel port alive.
Usually I only do the height map for the engraving step as I use drill bits with a collar and their depth variation is usually within 0.5mm, which is fine for drilling, but the Candle software will remember the height map, however you might run into a problem if you need tool changes for the drill bits, I don't think it will allow you to zero the Z axis on tool change.
Perfect!!!
Excellent sum up of every step. Also a nice touch on how you make it double sided. What is the pins you use?
Thanks, I bought a pack of small hardened 1.5mm steel rods, I think they were like $2 on aliexpress. They work very well to align the board for double sided and will keep it in place during cutout milling.
Cheers,
Jake
Firstly the video is so completely indepth ,love it, how do I drill with milling bits
Thanks, in FlatCam there's an option to define that all holes above a specific diameter should be made using a milling bit. I don't have a video showing the details of this specific feature, but it's easy to use, it will just generate a tool path for these holes and then you can go in a define the milling details and generate g-code. I use the feature to make the larger holes in this video:
th-cam.com/video/zUJt9sJ2mxU/w-d-xo.html
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade thanks
This is great info. What design rules do you use for you track and gap sizes ? Also what bit did you use ? I used the V bits that came with the machine and the tips broke straight away. Great idea with the water BTW. Very useful tip.
Thanks, I always keep my track and isolation above 10 mil, then I will usually not have any issues, however no need to keep tracks smaller than what you have space for, so often I will use 24 mil+ for signal tracks and larger for power. For the v-bits I use cheap carbide ones, they are like a rod that is sharpened then ground down on one side, very simple bits. Often sold as PCB engraving bits 30 degrees, 0.1 mm, cost around $10 for a pack of 10. I usually inspect the tips under magnification before use just to make sure the tip is intact, they do last for around 10+ boards before getting dull (you can tell it's dull when the burrs are getting large).
Hope this is helpful.
Cheers,
Jake
super !
Really great video. What is your surface made of? Is it MDF? It almost looks like Styrofoam. I haven't touched my cnc in a while. I remember being absolutely elated when I got height probing working with Linuxcnc. I don't have any experience with these grbl related tools. Thank you!
Thanks, the waste board is piece of scrap rubberwood , guess it looks a bit like styrofoam because I've drilled so many holes in it over time :) .. I do take a few mm of the surface every 6 months or so. I also started out with LinuxCNC, but when my old PC with a parallel port died, it was time to look for alternatives and the GRBL solutions looked like the way to go. These days you can get a decent quality GRBL board with USB interface and stepper drivers for as little as $30.
What are you using for alignment pins?
Great video btw. Thankyou
Thanks, I use some small steel rods like these: www.aliexpress.com/item/4001198086769.html
Cheers,
Jake
WOW! What speed settings are you using to engrave that fast? Excellent video!!!
This is all shown at accelerated speeds, it would be very boring to watch in real time.
Thanks for sharing. Just what I was looking for to create PCBs. What was your depth of cut and speeds and feeds? Thank you.
Thanks, for PCB engraving I usually use a feed of 80-120mm/min, at 0.05mm depth with an RPM around 10,000.
Cheers,
Jake
Did you flip the NC Drill file? I guess I missed it... I thought the NC Drill file "mirroring" is with respect to the top (component) side but you drilled it on the bottom (solder) side.
Thanks for the vid, always interested in CNC aspects of PCB home manufacture... I might adopt the CNC drill step (but still etch the top and bottom).
Cheers,
I used to drill from the top, but there is a small risk when doing the height mapping on the bottom the bit will hit one of the holes, so really the best way is to complete engraving both sides before drilling, so I do flip both the solder side and the drill file as one of the first steps. I remember manually drilling etched boards back in the through hole days, it was quite a task, especially if you didn't have a good mini drill press, CNC makes it so much easier and you can make all the holes the right size.
Excellent video. I have an issue that sometimes my Z heightmap goes screwey and doesn't do the probe. Is there something specific you do before you do a Z Heightmap ? Like zeroing the Z with auto zero and then do the heightmap ? Also, any suggestions/recommendations on a 10,000 RP motor ?
Hi, yes I do recall having the Candle software acting strange a couple of times in the past, now I follow a strict order of doing things and if I deviate for any reason, then I will reload the cnc file, that seems to reset everything. So for engraving, load the file, create the heightmap, do the z probing, apply hightmap and then engrave. I don't really have any recommendations on a good spindle, I don't think the one I'm using is being sold anymore, besides it's a bit weak with only a 50W motor, but it's got an ER collet chuck and very little runout. Most of the cheaper spindles I see for sale are very high RPM and that limits their usefulness a bit.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade If you get a chance, when you do your next PCB job, could list the exact sequence as that would be really helpful. Thanks. I can then follow your recipe. BTW, I really appreciate videos like yours. Thanks again.
Hey man, great video, thank you for do it to us. my native language isnt english but i can to understand perfectly.
because of you finally i could understand how to make 2 sided of pcb mirroring.
i have a problem sometimes: the mill cutter does not remove the copper completely, maybe the tool were old and loose the cut. can you help me to understand it and solve?
Thanks, I'm happy you found the video useful. For the Z axis zero I always make sure the CNC controller is zeroed with the engraving bit at position 0 (touching the board) I always do the zero operation, then reset the CNC controller because the software sometimes have problems if you don't do this. Hope it makes sense.
Cheers,
Jake
Hi. Thank you very much for this great explanation. I followed carefully your procedure and it works very well. Nonetheless, I don't get sharp edges like the one you get. Could you please tell me what 0 .1 mm, 30 degrees flute caracteristics you use, make and model. I believe that makes the difference between success and failure. Thank you very much again. Regards, RJM
Hi, the v-bits can be the reason, I just use the cheap 0.1 mm 30 degree engraving v-bits you can find online for around $5-10 for a pack of 10, they are basically just a rod that is sharpened and ground flat on one side. I have tried 0.2 mm as well, but never got good results with those. I usually inspect the tips under magnification before machining as I have experienced bits where the tip had broken off and it's very difficult to see without magnification. Another possible source of rough edges is the spindle itself, in my experience if you have excessive runout or vibrations then you will never get good results.
Hope this is helpful,
Cheers,
Jake
TheStuffMade Thank you very much for your precision. I was using 10 degrees 0.1 mm v-bit. I have ordered some 30 degrees carbide. Looking forward to more great video of yours. Regards, RJM
Thanks for your great explanation. I just want to know which CNC machine could you recommend me.
Thanks in advance 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Thanks, I'm sorry, but I cannot give a good recommendation of a CNC machine, I only have my small desktop one I use in this video and a larger DIY CNC I use for wood projects. I don't think the CNC I use in the video is available any longer, but I believe it was sold for around $500 under the name Sable CNC. I got mine second hand because the original owner couldn't get it to work right, I thought maybe just a faulty stepper motor, but it turned out the linear rails were not parallel, so it would bind up and the motors would lose steps resulting in failed jobs. Anyway I can share some general advice on what to look for in a good machine:
1. It should be sturdy, metal construction, no plastic.
2. It should use ball or acme screws, avoid belts.
3. It should not use the stepper motor bearings to hold any of the axis in place.
4. The spindle should have an ER collar.
5. The spindle motor should have minimal runout, also it should not rely on the bearings in a normal DC motor.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful.
@@TheStuffMade Thanks for your quick response
@@TheStuffMade
I typically
Nice edges, any idea how many rpm your spindle is running ?
Thanks, yes, it runs close to 10,000 rpm. I checked it recently. I used to run a 30,000 rpm spindle but it had too much runout and the results were not as good.
perfect video
thanks
but I have one Q.
Is CNC machine can be useful with all PCB board type ? I mean the board fiber
or the opposite side , is all type off PCB fiber fitting with CNC?
thanks a lot
Thanks, you can use other types of boards, but I'd recommend sticking with FR4 boards as the copper is bonded really well to the fiberboard. If you use something like phenolic board you'll find that the copper layer separates much easier from the board material, especially when you have fine traces and small pads.
Cheers,
Jake
what bits are you using for the thin contours, Im getting some hard time with my cnc still can't figure out the right bit to use
Hi, I'm using 30 degree 0.1 mm engraving bits, basically like a rod ground to 30 degrees tip and flattened on one side. If you use the same and experience issues with rough traces you most likely have an issue with vibrations or your spindle having too much runout.
Hope it helps.
Cheers,
Jake
what type of engraving tools to make pcb?, what degree? (15, 30, or 60°?)
And what type for making masking text?
Yellow clip & black clip is joint together ?
How to set Z probe " depth" thx
Hi your video is wonderful to newbee as I.
One thing I want to ask you is let me shoe the way of milling to larger hole with out drill bite as its size. Let me know the detail to make the larger hole with much smaller milling cutter bite. I can not find the way to milling the larger hole with smaller milling cutter. WIth Mach3 tool they have very simple way to make the larger hole with smaller milling bite.
I'm very much appreciate to knowing the way. Thanks in advance.
Hi, Thanks, if you use FlatCAM then there is an option on the tab where you configure hole drilling, here you can select what holes you want to mill and what holes you want to drill. I use the mill functionality in this project: th-cam.com/video/zUJt9sJ2mxU/w-d-xo.html
Cheers,
Jake
26:31
what happened with big holes in the left side board?
Dull drillbit?
How do you handle the via’s? Easy to mill but how do you connect them?
Hi, I just solder in some cut off pins from through hole resistors etc. Of course this means you have to pay attention when you design the board to make sure you don't have vias under ICs and that the pad on top of the hole can be soldered where needed.
Cheers,
Jake
Cool info, @14:41, what is that crocodile clip for ? thanks
Thanks, the crocodile clips are to detect when the bit makes contact with the copper surface, then I can zero the z-axis very accurately.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade I see, thanks for the info.
Sir I am using similar cnc that is arduino based, please tell me where to connect height probe in the arduino boards. I mean what are the pins assigned to it. THANKS VERY MUCH
Sorry, I can't tell without more info on the control board you're using. Have you tried asking the seller where you bought your CNC?
Cheers,
Jake
It did not seem that you mirrored the component side are you sure you did? Didn't holes need to match?
I mirror the solder side (back) and the drills, the component (top) side should not be mirrored because it's the side that it milled before the board is flipped over.
You can see it at around 04:15 where I mirror both the solder side and the drill file as both of those will be machined after I flip the board.
hi, What CNC machine did you use for this?
The desktop CNC machine I have is no longer on the market, I bought it 2nd hand many years ago, but you can see it in detail at around 13:17
Cheers,
Jake
Sir can you share ths Gerber
What grbl firmware u have in this machine ?
Hi, my control board is running GRBL v1.1
What software was used to level the bed?
Hi, it's part of setting up the job in Candle, it's in the video around 15:52
Cheers,
Jake
What is this spindle, buddy?
What spindle are you using?
It's a low power (~50W) engraving spindle with very little runout, however it's quite old, I don't think they are sold anymore.
@@TheStuffMade Does a 300W spindle is enough to make a good PCB engraving in your opinion?
hi all, Does anyone know how to cut? I want to cut inside, not outside. my flatcam is 8.993 BETA
I've only done it for large round holes, for those you can just define them as a drill hole in the PCB software and then in flatcam you can select that holes above a specified diameter should be made using routing instead of drilling. You can see an example of it in my Tube Prototype Socket video.
Hope that is helpful.
Cheers,
Jake
where I can download flatcar V8.9 ??many thanks
Hi! I have an issue with Candle and creating a Heightmap. I hope someone can help!
When I run the "Probe" button in the heightmap settings the spindle goes through the grid lines but never moves the Z axis up and down to take measurements.
I have changed the boder settings, the probe grid numbers the Zt and Zb numbers and the interpolation numbers but nothing seems to have an effect on this. ¿Does anyone know how to fix this?
The Settings I Used
"Use Heightmap" checked, "Show border" checked, "Auto" Selected, "Show Grid" Checked, Interpolation Grid X:2 Y:2 checked. Probe grid: set to test every 10mm, Border X:0 Y:0, Zt: 1, Zb: -1.
Using 3018Prover, Candle 1.1.9, ran a homing cycle, used Z-probe to set Z height. And set my XY coordinates at the lower left corner of my PCB. Jogged the Z axis to be above .5mm from the pcb at orgin.
Hi Pablo, do you know what version of GRBL your control board is running?
Cheers,
Jake
Hi, In very steps of millings, and drilling. How the machine go back to orginal point (x, y, z) (0,0,0) how could you do that? manual?
You have to manually zero X, Y and Z before starting the milling, I do it at 14:35 in the video.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade Hi Jake, my question is not clear at all - sorry about it! for my machine, after it milled top, bottom, or drilled holes, the drill bit did not go back automatically origin like your machine, i have to manual move it back (0,0,0). what setup or buttons do i have to do? could you give me a hint? thanks again!
@@garynguyen6981 Are you using FlatCam to generate the G-Code?
@@TheStuffMade Jake, I 'm using Flatcam 8.993 Beta to generate the g-code.
@@garynguyen6981 I don't remember 100%, but I believe there are options under Preferences to make it return to 0,0 perhaps tool change X,Y, Z or end move X,Y,Z.
looks like no installer exists for anything newer than 8.5. None of these features seem to work correctly in 8.5, not sure how you got a newer version running? Is there a tutorial for that?
Hi John, I had a look in their bitbucket, there is a text file describing how to download v8.994 (latest beta).
bitbucket.org/jpcgt/flatcam/downloads/FlatCAM_beta_8.994_installers.txt
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade Thanks for that, but still can't get alignment hols added, the newest beta wants a Reference in the PCB alignment sub-section of the 2-sided tool. It has this field pre-populated with "Box Centroid", but this doesn't work and after I enter the two drill coordinates and click Create Excellon Object it says "There is no Box reference loaded, Load one and retry". No idea how to do this, not mentioned in any documentation. No help function no how-to's, generally this is more alpha than beta software at this point.
After 4 hours of trying to get FlatCAM to run I gave up. Are there free alternatives that are NOT python based? FlatCAM seems to be a bit of a disaster right now.
Before switching to FlatCAM I used a plugin for Eagle PCB called PCB-GCODE, I think it's still available. There was also a piece of software called CopperCAM I believe, but I'm not sure if that is still around. However none of these are as powerful as FlatCAM so you might want to have another go at making it work, maybe try on another machine.
Cheers,
Jake
can you set the gcode files
Sorry I'm not sure I understand the question.
Cheers,
Jake
Spindle RPM?
10k
В пути файла не должно быть кириллицы. Не будет открывать, без сообщений.
Your hole on pcb are not centered. You lose step or grbl is not precised
Nah, it's just minor inaccuracies from flipping the board over.