Yep, I did this once (around year 2000). The PCB was approx 1x3cm, double side, the components (I think that were 2-3 resistors, 1 or 2 capacitors, one transistor and one small audio output transformer) were THD and some of them I mounted as SMD (resistors); it was a mosquito repellent audio oscillator and worked at first try. All was made by hand, from design to drilling holes, with no tools other than a soldering iron. I make it to win a bet and I won it.
@@billmckillip1561 You can also connect your components by twisting wires together all janky-like and securing it with hot glue. Don't let not having a soldering iron hold you back.
@@Lozoot2 Components? You were living in paradise! In my days, we didn't have any components. Different kinds of soil and our own bodily secretions is what we had to work with. And we were happy!
The song was good, but the thing that made me mildly spit-take my cereal (not some kind of weird euphemism) was when the eyebrow waggling escalated to ridiculous levels at 6:20.
I just wanted to toss out that I'm here for Zack not for a category. Your videos and lives give me motivation and inspiration to work on my own projects. Follow the dopamine and takes us along!
Even though I haven't played tf2 in years it holds enough of a special place in my heart for me to feel personally attacked by the straight facts you spat. The worst part is I 100% agree.
Great work. I’ve CNC’d many boards similar to how you did it. I finally bought a Bantam Tools PCBMill and it’s like night and day difference. The biggest advantage is the software. 1000 times better than flatcam and designed to work with the machine. Plus it mills holes not drills. If you ever get a chance to buy one(since the one I bought is discontinued and replaced by their new design) I highly recommend it. That board you had could be completed in roughly 30 minutes. For vias I just solder wire to the pad on each side. Glad you discovered small end mills. I use 1/64 for detail, 1/32 for clearing and 1/8 for cutting the outline. Great video.
Wow, that was an expensive board to make with all of the bits you broke. But to get the results you want, you have to experiment! Bravo, may you have learned from your experience! Happy days and model on! 😎
You need mesh leveling for v-bits. It's actually quite easy to do but I don't know if it possible with this particular machine. Basically the bit and the board are both conductive. Connect a couple of wires and use them as an end stop. Whenever the tool touches the board it should send a signal to the Z end stop input on the CNC.
@@SharkyMoto How would lightly touching a copper surface dull the same bit that is going to violently mill through said copper? Can you explain the material science going on there?
10:15 OMG it just dawned on me... when I import PDFs and Jpegs into Autocad I often have to scale them by 2.54 to get it right... probably because the files are in dots per INCH and I want them in meters now...
FINALLY! A multi-purpose machine that ACTUALLY INCLUDES proper laser safety panels! No relying on everyone in the house walking around with laser shades all the time.
Good stuff! A few hints to make your life easier next time. 1) Use oil when routing to help with smoother cuts. 2) Afterwards, use 800 grit sand paper really lightly to remove the ragged edges. This makes silkscreening and soldering easier. 3) If your bit feels off center, it's probably the collet, not the bit. Tighten the collet all the way without a bit in it. Then loosen it off until you can put your bit in. This helps center those cheap collets in the ring.
somehow I never realized you had ADHD, but now I have a couple questions! 1. Are you medicated? It can be really hard to tell with how varying the ADHD symptoms can be so forgive me for not being sure 2. If you are, or if you are not but you have tried them, did you notice a large improvement in your productivity etc? For me personally, it basically started a full-on life change for me. I went from 24/7 gaming and music production, no house chores, no nothing, to slowly finding that I really, really fucking like being productive, learning new hobbies etc and now I'm almost a year in and I wouldn't even recognize myself last year. Electronics, DIY, 3D printing, CNC, all of it has completely filled my eyes and head. 3. If you are NOT, how do you work around the issues caused by ADHD, like lack of productivity, focus, will to live, more productivity, mass murder, maintaining the life you want to etc? Sorry if this is alot, I ramble in the mornings when my meds are just kicking in and its usually on youtube comments
I used to use a laser printer (from the library), clothes iron, and some homemade CuCl2( some mixture of HCl H2O2 and one pre 1982 penny) to etch my own boards, I erred on the side of over etching, bridged the missing connections with enameled wire, and it did work.
Yep I used to do exactly that back in high school, circa 1990. I got really good at it and made useful circuits borrowed out of magazines and with a bit of help from Radio shack for acid, PCB clad etc. I used a dc motor out of a toy car, coupled to a 1mm drill bit to hand drill the holes. Oh the good old fun days!!
Great results for a first try! I've made quite a few boards for hobby and professional purposes (mostly prototypes), I have a Sainsmart 3018-ProVer, which is very cheap compared to some of the dedicated PCB mills out there, but works very well for PCB milling. For control I use Candle, a very simple but capable little CNC software. I've gathered some experience over the years which I'd like to share: - Clamp your board down firmly with at least four clamps. Tape works, but most PCB blanks are slightly bent, and if the tape doesn't hold it down perfectly, it may flex when you try to mill it, leading to inconsistent depth of cut. - Install a leveling sensor. The simplest option would be two wires, one attached to the PCB, the other one to the milling bit. Alligator clips work fine. Most CNC boards have some sort of input for additional sensors. - With the aforementioned sensor, level the PCB blank. One probe point every 10mm should be sufficient. Having a flat surface is not enough for the kind of tolerances we want, so software compensation is mandatory. All professional PCB mills do this. Candle works well for the software part, but most CNC software should have a similar feature. - Precision end mills are nice, but quite expensive and fragile. I had good results with 30 to 60 degree V-tips. For holes, I use normal PCB drills. It's a bit more work to change the drill size for different holes, but milling holes takes way longer, especially if you have lots of them. - Cheap bits are a bit of a gamble, sometimes they are good, sometimes they are garbage. But it's still cheaper to experiment a bit than to break too many high quality bits. One you find a type that works well, stock a few for future accidents. - You want good quality bits, especially for isolation routing. Good bits cut with very little noise, and there should be no burrs around the cuts when you wipe over them with your fingers. - Some sellers stock FR1 PCB blanks. Those don't have fiberglass in them, so they are way easier to mill and less dangerous, but they aren't as sturdy as FR4. For most applications they are absolutely fine though. - Try to stick with sigle sided boards when possible. If you need two sides, you can connect the vias with copper wire, but most board designers will assume that all holes are plated through, and you can't solder both sides on all components (e.g. capacitors). This might lead to design flaws. Rivets are an option, but a lot of work. - Don't bother with solder resist, it's messy, it takes forever and if you solder carefully, it's not needed for functionality. - When the board is finished and tested, cover the copper side with protective lacquer. You can get that stuff in spray cans, there are special non-conductive types for PCBs. Keeps the moisture out and your boards look shiny and new even after years. Dries in a few hours. Also prevents shorts, but don't rely on that. Happy milling, I hope you can speed up some projects in the future!
hey machinist here, i have a few possibly helpful tips: 1. when using a flat endmill try not to plunge straight down but instead helix into the material. 2. you can find a lot of bits at machinist shops like herrics, MCSdirect, Grainger, Shars, Kennametal, ect. 3. some too materials and setups work better than others (HSS v.s Carbide, or 4 flute vs 2 flute) the harder the material the slower you can spin the spindle with larger feed same with more flutes. 4. Slower spindle speeds will make your tool wear down slower within reason.
"We're going to machine our way from hot garbage to premium garbage like the dumpster behind a wholefoods" - youre a frikin genius Zack, love your work. I saw a guy called bitluni do a circuit board milling project using a cheap chinease desktop milling machine, he might have some tips for you, check him out.
1) Make a 1-line Gcode file with the M21 command that you can run after E-Stop 2) Nice voice! Love the video, died laughing. Came back from the grave to write this comment. Remember me as I was. 3) Order bulk bits. You’ll use them. Trust me.
if you coat the copper with something, laser away everywhere you dont need copper, you can also use the machine to etch pcbs... OH and before i forget, you can also use any old resin printer, just get yourself one of those uv reactive pcb blanks, make a 1 layer print in the shape of your pcb, etch it and you got yourself a perfect pcb with no tools in a very short time! also, no jagged edges and no microcenter.
@@1pcfred i know... i know, but with resin printers beeing CHEAP, using that would be epic, you can still use the cnc for actual cnc tasks like drilling the holes
Have you actually tried that? I would think that the laser could easily damage or even remove the hair thin copper right along with the mask. You'd still need a mill for holes/vias, and a I don't think a resin printer would have any means of aligning the image with the board. (Unless it's a single sided board with only SMD, or you're willing to drill everything by hand.) On a laser/cnc combo like this machine you can use registration holes like he did to get the laser and mill in more or less perfect alignment, so the laser could probably help in other ways like maybe for marking silkscreen, or even cutting an SMD template. Most 3d printers could be modded to take a laser head (ignoring software), so that technique sounds interesting. Ferric chloride is much cheaper than a pack of end-mils and arguably less messy than milling dust.
@@TheVideoGuardian maybe you need a mill for holes or vias but I have a dedicated high speed drill press. I don't drill boards on my CNC machine when I isolation route them. I drill them by hand with my drill press. I can't be asked to do all of the bit changes on my CNC it'd take. A 3 jaw chuck is a lot easier to work with. I'm very particular about part fit in boards too. One size does not fit all. Plus I just like drilling boards out. If I didn't then I wouldn't do what I do.
@@SharkyMoto I have a CNC machine but I don't drill boards with it. Changing bits with collet chucks kinda sucks. I also have a high speed mini drill press that drills PCBs out brilliantly too. It's why I have it.
My dad got a snapmaker A350 recently and it is so wonderful to finally be able to make pcbs at home, it has been a dream of mine for a really long time :D
I used to be a CAM/CAD operator at a custom printed circuit board manufacturer. A) You don't remove the locator pins. You use shorter ones. B) You program the G-code to drill the locator holes first, then pause. You set the pins. THEN you do all the rest, even on the first side. Relying on the tape alone can allow the board to shift as the bits push their way along, laterally. C) I had to write custom GW-BASIC (yup, a LONG time ago) to check for things and automatically modify the generated G-code. Hand editing G-code is a losing game because there are to many opportunities for human error, and those errors almost ALWAYS cost money. D) A vacuum bed will hold those boards flat AND release them without frustration as soon as you turn off the vacuum. E) You are far, FAR better off laser printing your circuits onto transparency film (once you have calibrated the exact size of the print) than machining away copper. Most good laser printers have a setting to adjust the density of the print. Set that to the maximum so light doesn't leak through the black printed areas and cause there to be less resist left there than should be to get a clean etch. What black to the naked eye can still let a lot of light through.
That was pretty cool stuff! I make my pcb with a silhouette 4 vinyl cutter. Stick it on the board. Acid wash. Peel sticker off and dremel press drill the holes out. Way faster then 2 hours. But I have to manually drill
Hi Zack, I'm also using Flatcam and a CNC for my professional(nah) PCB making endeavors. I've went through the same caveats and mistakes you've been through when I first started a couple of years ago, so here's some tips and tricks to improve your PCB quality. -I don't have a bed leveller tool, so I offset my zero everytime I'm going to etch something. Trick here is to start the spindle and lowering the bit oh-so-delicately, with about 0.1mms every step. The moment you hear an etching sound, move it upwards by one step and start the program. -Find the floating point precision of your CNC. My CNC works at a 0.00001 precision, so my isolation geometry code lowers at Z-0.00001 for accurate isolations. -Sandpaper the hell out of your etched copper! Milling will only slightly move the copper and not going to magically make it disappear. If you sandpaper it, you will have a better end product and possibly avoid shorts. -If you have approximately x3 more time, I suggest you create a ground plane and etch it also. This gives the PCB a non-copper area to avoid possible shorts but damn it it takes a lot of time. -This PCB didn't have any tiny SMD components, but in time you will come to realize that isolation routing is not possible for routes less than about 0.7mms. I suggest that next time you should make a test routes to see what your machine is capable of, and use/create routes accordingly. I've lost too many boards wasted trying to use trace paths to a TMP117! -My personal opinion when it comes to DIY PCB manufacturing is etching it with a laser cutter. I see that your device has a laser cutter, but 1.6 Watts is probably not going to do the job. Kindly check out this video to see the full process: /watch?v=RuSg7-hMaQg Regards,
heh that's what I do too. Just BS the Z touch off. Running the path a few times does clean the job up. Don't use SMD garbage and that's that solved. If you don't have a pick and place machine then SMD really doesn't make any sense for you to use anyways. They invented SMT just to screw the DIY community. So why use something that's actively against you? 1.8W isn't a laser cutter. Well, maybe it could cut thin acetate or something? Tissue paper?
Use the Flatcam Beta, it is much better. To enable mesh bed leveling for cnc on the machine you would have to hack it a bit. There must be a z-probe pin that you can use? If that works you can do mesh bed leveling with bCNC.
I followed you trying the 0.2mm milling bit and found out that it just broke instantaneously. I tried with a bunch of bits I can find and the one that gave me the best result was the 10 degree V bit 0.1 or 0.2mm 1/8 shank. The bit was extremely cheap and the result was astonishing. My result was so good that I can compare it to the $3000 Wegstr machine. Hopefully somebody can read this and don't have to waste time and money on bits.
“Sets the system to bald eagles…” I am dying. Funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Perfect delivery. Oh man, thank you for that laugh. I really needed it.
It all started when i saw a 42 minute video on filament and i said "How could there be 42 minutes of filament?" now I've found my favorite page in youtube!
CNC machinist here, You're killing me! I've made every one of these mistakes myself and at least once it has got me fired! I haven't laughed this hard in ages.
Loved this episode to "bits!" I've used a diamond tipped tool on an ancient engraver, with a spring loaded collet in the 'z' axis and spindle turned off. Did great work dragging sharp lines on anodized aluminum, maybe a robust tool like that could take on .0014" of copper?
Awesome to see, the mini rivets were a great idea! I'd be interested in seeing if you could add a silk screen or something to stop random debris being able to short your board out if it fell ontop of it. Even if its just smearing hotglue over it and cut out holes for your pads
Hi Zack you are awesome and an inspiration. Use finger diel gouge to double check the board before you cut. Chances are it will not be flat. Instead of carpet tape use screws and shims to clamp the blank. I was a cnc machinist for a very long time and that's how it works with that. Hope I helped. When you cut a dial gauges are your best friends.
I fumbled my way through cnc'ing circuit boards a few years back, and had good luck with an aluminum spoil board, superglue (rather than carpet tape), and acetone. helped keep things flat. I had dedicated alignment pin holes that I'd design into the boards, and they had teenie-tiny ground points on them to which I'd set the CNC x-y zero using a usb microscope. Yes, these pins were made from my vast collection of broken endmills.
Hopefully this reaches you 2 years ago so as to save you a bunch of headaches. 1. Set Height Map 2. Use a 30deg Spiral Engraving bit(please, just the tip) 3. You need to blow on it once the tip is in. Seriously, you need an air assist to clear the cuttings away from the bit path. Great videos, by the way.
Oddly, glass dust - unlike ground up moon rocks - is not pure cancer. Something about its organic nature means our lungs can actually digest and remove it. I'm really happy to see a cnc mill successfully engrave a pcb. As you discovered, it's hard! Good work!
Your videos are very high quality. It's funny because your audience by topic is necessarily not mainstream. I wonder if you had a mainstream show if you'd be in the top 5? I think you certainly have the talent for it.
Great Video.The behavior cnc control "remembering last feedrate indefinitely" like Many G codes is referred to as Modal . CNC Control interprets the meaning XYZ IJK etc based on Mode. G20 inch mode G21 metric etc. G90 and G91 for example are Absolute or Incremental Mode , G00 and G01 are rapid move or feedrate (F) move . G02 and G03 are cw or ccw arc mode. Some controls treat different commands as modal.
This video has made me feel so much more competent about my projects and learning curve. Sometimes it feels like getting a new machine is its own version of smash it till you understand how to suck less.
this episode made me so proud of my local makerspace's piece of shit circuit mill. It can do at least on par isolation width with way cheaper tools. sometimes you gotta kick it to make it work but then it works really nicely and has done so for at least a decade at this point.
I bought a snapmaker 2.0 A350 during pre-order. I'm sad I've been so busy 3d printing for 2 years I haven't had much time.to even experiment with CNC or laser (I've also procrastinated building my own enclosure for lazer and CNC work so I don't cloud up my basement or blind my kids lol I absolutely love the thing and it's cool to see big guys using them for stuff like this
I like you how had the same problems that I did. I glad you show how hard it is to mill a pcb some some video make it look to easy and I feel like people may get trap by this. I am interested to try some of these very small end mill. Keep the cool Video comming !
Regarding the cutline width problem with v-bits: There are attachments called Engraving Milling Depth Regulator or similar that solve this issue. It also helps if the fiberglass material is not stuck down exactly flat.
I fucking love your videos man, keep it up. I don't even care if the next one is about cheese production or w/e. I'll watch it. I don't know a single channel that has this level of production value as well as these punny jokes and memes. Love it
Great video Zach! I can see how having somethig like this would be really useful, especially with not needing to have parts sent back and forth. For another project you could try making a diy pen plotter.
That's pretty sweet that they just gave you a CNC machine. I had to make my own. Being as copper clad board is conductive it's pretty easy material to map. You should probably find out what surface mapping is and how to do it. I stick PCB down with hot snot. It doesn't take much to hold it down really. If there's any pressure at that bit you know what happens to them. Snap!
Vacuum spoil board for your circuit boards. Then do like a .02 inlay into the the spoil board with fillets at the corners and lay the circuit board into the inlay not vacuum locked to the spoil board and aligned perfectly into the inlay
I use a trusty LPKF machine at work (Circa year 2000) and while the software has given me some troubles in the past with 2 layer boards, the large selection of bits has been great. I know you're getting used to the machine but I use a bit that's 08-12 mil (depending on manual depth set) and whenever I lay out a board with some hairline traces, I just raise the bit up until I get JUST the copper clad removed. Sometimes I have to run the operation a few times to adjust it properly but I say this because your successful board on the precision end mill still looked a smidge deep and could be one of your issues. Of course, that's based on the camera angle but maybe it'll help.
You can also make custom circuits with a exacto-knife. Don't let not having a cnc hold you back.
You can also connect your components with soldered wires. Don't let not having an exacto-knife hold you back.
Yep, I did this once (around year 2000). The PCB was approx 1x3cm, double side, the components (I think that were 2-3 resistors, 1 or 2 capacitors, one transistor and one small audio output transformer) were THD and some of them I mounted as SMD (resistors); it was a mosquito repellent audio oscillator and worked at first try. All was made by hand, from design to drilling holes, with no tools other than a soldering iron.
I make it to win a bet and I won it.
@@billmckillip1561 You can also connect your components by twisting wires together all janky-like and securing it with hot glue. Don't let not having a soldering iron hold you back.
You can also use Crayola and draw things on your walls and pretend they are working by magic. Don't let not having a CNC hold you back.
@@Lozoot2 Components? You were living in paradise! In my days, we didn't have any components. Different kinds of soil and our own bodily secretions is what we had to work with. And we were happy!
That Sound of Silence remix did not disappoint.
Thanks for running this machine for this purpose. Very informative. And entertaining as usual.
I appreciated it and will recall it warmly
It was...exceptional
The song was good, but the thing that made me mildly spit-take my cereal (not some kind of weird euphemism) was when the eyebrow waggling escalated to ridiculous levels at 6:20.
@@slartimus Zack is ridiculous, and I love him for it.
Dude you’re a madman. Love this video.
I just wanted to toss out that I'm here for Zack not for a category. Your videos and lives give me motivation and inspiration to work on my own projects. Follow the dopamine and takes us along!
I fully agree! Zack is so fun to watch
same, I like watching the 3d printing and what have you but I like him specifically bc he's funny and relatable
making a lot of snapped tools with the snapmaker, call me unsurprised 😂
It's a genius marketing strategy, it guarantees you never forget the company name...
Even though I haven't played tf2 in years it holds enough of a special place in my heart for me to feel personally attacked by the straight facts you spat.
The worst part is I 100% agree.
Great work. I’ve CNC’d many boards similar to how you did it. I finally bought a Bantam Tools PCBMill and it’s like night and day difference. The biggest advantage is the software. 1000 times better than flatcam and designed to work with the machine. Plus it mills holes not drills. If you ever get a chance to buy one(since the one I bought is discontinued and replaced by their new design) I highly recommend it. That board you had could be completed in roughly 30 minutes. For vias I just solder wire to the pad on each side. Glad you discovered small end mills. I use 1/64 for detail, 1/32 for clearing and 1/8 for cutting the outline.
Great video.
uh, in flatcam, you can choose to mill big holes.
The machine we see here is clearly capable of milling PCBs. Buying a machine just for the software seems a bit lunatic to me.
Wow, that was an expensive board to make with all of the bits you broke. But to get the results you want, you have to experiment! Bravo, may you have learned from your experience! Happy days and model on! 😎
You need mesh leveling for v-bits. It's actually quite easy to do but I don't know if it possible with this particular machine. Basically the bit and the board are both conductive. Connect a couple of wires and use them as an end stop. Whenever the tool touches the board it should send a signal to the Z end stop input on the CNC.
if you do it that way, your v bit is dull by the time you are ready to mill.
@@SharkyMoto you dont have to use the v bit to create the mesh
@@SharkyMoto How would lightly touching a copper surface dull the same bit that is going to violently mill through said copper? Can you explain the material science going on there?
@@ericcmcgraw the bit cant turn normally while your are leveling, so it isnt cutting but rather just pushing down on the bit.
@@leobla744 yes, neverthless the hardness of the materials are not affected by the speed, so the bit would still just dent the copper, not vice versa.
"when tf2 works, it's a coincidence"
I damn lost it good job!
10:15 OMG it just dawned on me... when I import PDFs and Jpegs into Autocad I often have to scale them by 2.54 to get it right... probably because the files are in dots per INCH and I want them in meters now...
FINALLY! A multi-purpose machine that ACTUALLY INCLUDES proper laser safety panels!
No relying on everyone in the house walking around with laser shades all the time.
It didn't. That's an upgrade
That is an upgrade sadly
Just use an enclosure with a camera to monitor the cheapos which have no laser safety panels . It just works.
The projects are always banging, but your script writing honestly is the best in the business.
Good stuff! A few hints to make your life easier next time.
1) Use oil when routing to help with smoother cuts.
2) Afterwards, use 800 grit sand paper really lightly to remove the ragged edges. This makes silkscreening and soldering easier.
3) If your bit feels off center, it's probably the collet, not the bit. Tighten the collet all the way without a bit in it. Then loosen it off until you can put your bit in. This helps center those cheap collets in the ring.
somehow I never realized you had ADHD, but now I have a couple questions!
1. Are you medicated? It can be really hard to tell with how varying the ADHD symptoms can be so forgive me for not being sure
2. If you are, or if you are not but you have tried them, did you notice a large improvement in your productivity etc? For me personally, it basically started a full-on life change for me. I went from 24/7 gaming and music production, no house chores, no nothing, to slowly finding that I really, really fucking like being productive, learning new hobbies etc and now I'm almost a year in and I wouldn't even recognize myself last year. Electronics, DIY, 3D printing, CNC, all of it has completely filled my eyes and head.
3. If you are NOT, how do you work around the issues caused by ADHD, like lack of productivity, focus, will to live, more productivity, mass murder, maintaining the life you want to etc?
Sorry if this is alot, I ramble in the mornings when my meds are just kicking in and its usually on youtube comments
Forget the whole cnc circuit board cutting! I'm more impressed by how you named all the sponsors at the end with a straight face.
This is one of best vids you’ve ever done, that production value baby! Keep it up Zach, love it!
I used to use a laser printer (from the library), clothes iron, and some homemade CuCl2( some mixture of HCl H2O2 and one pre 1982 penny) to etch my own boards, I erred on the side of over etching, bridged the missing connections with enameled wire, and it did work.
Yep I used to do exactly that back in high school, circa 1990. I got really good at it and made useful circuits borrowed out of magazines and with a bit of help from Radio shack for acid, PCB clad etc. I used a dc motor out of a toy car, coupled to a 1mm drill bit to hand drill the holes. Oh the good old fun days!!
I would watch a two hour cut of this, no hassle. Really interesting and cool!
You deserve ten times the subscriptions. You are very entertaining while delivering a terrifyingly specific subject. :)
Great results for a first try!
I've made quite a few boards for hobby and professional purposes (mostly prototypes), I have a Sainsmart 3018-ProVer, which is very cheap compared to some of the dedicated PCB mills out there, but works very well for PCB milling. For control I use Candle, a very simple but capable little CNC software. I've gathered some experience over the years which I'd like to share:
- Clamp your board down firmly with at least four clamps. Tape works, but most PCB blanks are slightly bent, and if the tape doesn't hold it down perfectly, it may flex when you try to mill it, leading to inconsistent depth of cut.
- Install a leveling sensor. The simplest option would be two wires, one attached to the PCB, the other one to the milling bit. Alligator clips work fine. Most CNC boards have some sort of input for additional sensors.
- With the aforementioned sensor, level the PCB blank. One probe point every 10mm should be sufficient. Having a flat surface is not enough for the kind of tolerances we want, so software compensation is mandatory. All professional PCB mills do this. Candle works well for the software part, but most CNC software should have a similar feature.
- Precision end mills are nice, but quite expensive and fragile. I had good results with 30 to 60 degree V-tips. For holes, I use normal PCB drills. It's a bit more work to change the drill size for different holes, but milling holes takes way longer, especially if you have lots of them.
- Cheap bits are a bit of a gamble, sometimes they are good, sometimes they are garbage. But it's still cheaper to experiment a bit than to break too many high quality bits. One you find a type that works well, stock a few for future accidents.
- You want good quality bits, especially for isolation routing. Good bits cut with very little noise, and there should be no burrs around the cuts when you wipe over them with your fingers.
- Some sellers stock FR1 PCB blanks. Those don't have fiberglass in them, so they are way easier to mill and less dangerous, but they aren't as sturdy as FR4. For most applications they are absolutely fine though.
- Try to stick with sigle sided boards when possible. If you need two sides, you can connect the vias with copper wire, but most board designers will assume that all holes are plated through, and you can't solder both sides on all components (e.g. capacitors). This might lead to design flaws. Rivets are an option, but a lot of work.
- Don't bother with solder resist, it's messy, it takes forever and if you solder carefully, it's not needed for functionality.
- When the board is finished and tested, cover the copper side with protective lacquer. You can get that stuff in spray cans, there are special non-conductive types for PCBs. Keeps the moisture out and your boards look shiny and new even after years. Dries in a few hours. Also prevents shorts, but don't rely on that.
Happy milling, I hope you can speed up some projects in the future!
Time to invest in Micro Center.
hey machinist here, i have a few possibly helpful tips:
1. when using a flat endmill try not to plunge straight down but instead helix into the material.
2. you can find a lot of bits at machinist shops like herrics, MCSdirect, Grainger, Shars, Kennametal, ect.
3. some too materials and setups work better than others (HSS v.s Carbide, or 4 flute vs 2 flute) the harder the material the slower you can spin the spindle with larger feed same with more flutes.
4. Slower spindle speeds will make your tool wear down slower within reason.
Your script writing is superb! This was a very informative video and I enjoyed it. Thank you for all the thought you put in to this channel.
I appreciate the genuine level of perseverance after constant bit breakage! Sound effect game was on point for this ep too
love your portal stuff!
2:35 That had to be one of the last references I would have expected in a video about making PCBs.
"We're going to machine our way from hot garbage to premium garbage like the dumpster behind a wholefoods" - youre a frikin genius Zack, love your work. I saw a guy called bitluni do a circuit board milling project using a cheap chinease desktop milling machine, he might have some tips for you, check him out.
The singing is magnificent. I was pleased to see the turn of fate at the end! Great work
1) Make a 1-line Gcode file with the M21 command that you can run after E-Stop
2) Nice voice! Love the video, died laughing. Came back from the grave to write this comment. Remember me as I was.
3) Order bulk bits. You’ll use them. Trust me.
if you coat the copper with something, laser away everywhere you dont need copper, you can also use the machine to etch pcbs... OH and before i forget, you can also use any old resin printer, just get yourself one of those uv reactive pcb blanks, make a 1 layer print in the shape of your pcb, etch it and you got yourself a perfect pcb with no tools in a very short time! also, no jagged edges and no microcenter.
Yeah but he got a free CNC machine.
@@1pcfred i know... i know, but with resin printers beeing CHEAP, using that would be epic, you can still use the cnc for actual cnc tasks like drilling the holes
Have you actually tried that? I would think that the laser could easily damage or even remove the hair thin copper right along with the mask. You'd still need a mill for holes/vias, and a I don't think a resin printer would have any means of aligning the image with the board. (Unless it's a single sided board with only SMD, or you're willing to drill everything by hand.)
On a laser/cnc combo like this machine you can use registration holes like he did to get the laser and mill in more or less perfect alignment, so the laser could probably help in other ways like maybe for marking silkscreen, or even cutting an SMD template.
Most 3d printers could be modded to take a laser head (ignoring software), so that technique sounds interesting. Ferric chloride is much cheaper than a pack of end-mils and arguably less messy than milling dust.
@@TheVideoGuardian maybe you need a mill for holes or vias but I have a dedicated high speed drill press. I don't drill boards on my CNC machine when I isolation route them. I drill them by hand with my drill press. I can't be asked to do all of the bit changes on my CNC it'd take. A 3 jaw chuck is a lot easier to work with. I'm very particular about part fit in boards too. One size does not fit all. Plus I just like drilling boards out. If I didn't then I wouldn't do what I do.
@@SharkyMoto I have a CNC machine but I don't drill boards with it. Changing bits with collet chucks kinda sucks. I also have a high speed mini drill press that drills PCBs out brilliantly too. It's why I have it.
My dad got a snapmaker A350 recently and it is so wonderful to finally be able to make pcbs at home, it has been a dream of mine for a really long time :D
This was just a sponsor for MicroCenter. Love the work, loved the video. Keep up the good work.
I used to be a CAM/CAD operator at a custom printed circuit board manufacturer.
A) You don't remove the locator pins. You use shorter ones.
B) You program the G-code to drill the locator holes first, then pause. You set the pins. THEN you do all the rest, even on the first side. Relying on the tape alone can allow the board to shift as the bits push their way along, laterally.
C) I had to write custom GW-BASIC (yup, a LONG time ago) to check for things and automatically modify the generated G-code. Hand editing G-code is a losing game because there are to many opportunities for human error, and those errors almost ALWAYS cost money.
D) A vacuum bed will hold those boards flat AND release them without frustration as soon as you turn off the vacuum.
E) You are far, FAR better off laser printing your circuits onto transparency film (once you have calibrated the exact size of the print) than machining away copper. Most good laser printers have a setting to adjust the density of the print. Set that to the maximum so light doesn't leak through the black printed areas and cause there to be less resist left there than should be to get a clean etch. What black to the naked eye can still let a lot of light through.
That was pretty cool stuff!
I make my pcb with a silhouette 4 vinyl cutter. Stick it on the board. Acid wash. Peel sticker off and dremel press drill the holes out. Way faster then 2 hours. But I have to manually drill
I've been wanting to make a custom keyboard, potentially a lot of them, with PCBs. And now I know that I DON'T want to do that so thanks!
2:28 Haha that deflection when the bit goes into plastic
Hi Zack,
I'm also using Flatcam and a CNC for my professional(nah) PCB making endeavors. I've went through the same caveats and mistakes you've been through when I first started a couple of years ago, so here's some tips and tricks to improve your PCB quality.
-I don't have a bed leveller tool, so I offset my zero everytime I'm going to etch something. Trick here is to start the spindle and lowering the bit oh-so-delicately, with about 0.1mms every step. The moment you hear an etching sound, move it upwards by one step and start the program.
-Find the floating point precision of your CNC. My CNC works at a 0.00001 precision, so my isolation geometry code lowers at Z-0.00001 for accurate isolations.
-Sandpaper the hell out of your etched copper! Milling will only slightly move the copper and not going to magically make it disappear. If you sandpaper it, you will have a better end product and possibly avoid shorts.
-If you have approximately x3 more time, I suggest you create a ground plane and etch it also. This gives the PCB a non-copper area to avoid possible shorts but damn it it takes a lot of time.
-This PCB didn't have any tiny SMD components, but in time you will come to realize that isolation routing is not possible for routes less than about 0.7mms. I suggest that next time you should make a test routes to see what your machine is capable of, and use/create routes accordingly. I've lost too many boards wasted trying to use trace paths to a TMP117!
-My personal opinion when it comes to DIY PCB manufacturing is etching it with a laser cutter. I see that your device has a laser cutter, but 1.6 Watts is probably not going to do the job. Kindly check out this video to see the full process: /watch?v=RuSg7-hMaQg
Regards,
heh that's what I do too. Just BS the Z touch off. Running the path a few times does clean the job up. Don't use SMD garbage and that's that solved. If you don't have a pick and place machine then SMD really doesn't make any sense for you to use anyways. They invented SMT just to screw the DIY community. So why use something that's actively against you? 1.8W isn't a laser cutter. Well, maybe it could cut thin acetate or something? Tissue paper?
idk how you havnt hit a mil. Amazing personality and content keep it up pls!
I used to show up just for the technical information, but I keep coming back for the never ending stream of comedy! Zack, you are a LEGEND!!
I can’t wait till you hit 1 mil subscribers, your vids are amazing keep ups the good work!
Some of the most entertaining videos I've seen on TH-cam
Use the Flatcam Beta, it is much better. To enable mesh bed leveling for cnc on the machine you would have to hack it a bit. There must be a z-probe pin that you can use? If that works you can do mesh bed leveling with bCNC.
I followed you trying the 0.2mm milling bit and found out that it just broke instantaneously. I tried with a bunch of bits I can find and the one that gave me the best result was the 10 degree V bit 0.1 or 0.2mm 1/8 shank. The bit was extremely cheap and the result was astonishing. My result was so good that I can compare it to the $3000 Wegstr machine. Hopefully somebody can read this and don't have to waste time and money on bits.
I really appreciate your comment. That will save time.
“Sets the system to bald eagles…” I am dying. Funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Perfect delivery. Oh man, thank you for that laugh. I really needed it.
I just got that joke because of this comment. Thank you.
What nice „sound of silence“ song at 10:25. awesome stuff, awesome video, funny & informational
It all started when i saw a 42 minute video on filament and i said "How could there be 42 minutes of filament?" now I've found my favorite page in youtube!
You got a good and entertaining personality bro, I appreciate your content
"Everything's better with a freaking laser"
Most adorable Dr. Evil impersonation. Ever.
CNC machinist here, You're killing me! I've made every one of these mistakes myself and at least once it has got me fired! I haven't laughed this hard in ages.
Loved this episode to "bits!" I've used a diamond tipped tool on an ancient engraver, with a spring loaded collet in the 'z' axis and spindle turned off. Did great work dragging sharp lines on anodized aluminum, maybe a robust tool like that could take on .0014" of copper?
Such a puntastic video, great work as always
I loved the content!
Could you use the laser engraver to burn in your circuit pattern on masking tape and spray with conductive paint?
And then electoplate that paint for usable conductivity? Still not the worst idea.
Bud, I've been subbed to your channel for a while now and EVERY time you put a new video out it's even better. This shit is getting insane.
Awesome to see, the mini rivets were a great idea! I'd be interested in seeing if you could add a silk screen or something to stop random debris being able to short your board out if it fell ontop of it. Even if its just smearing hotglue over it and cut out holes for your pads
The first steps to being okay at something is to suck at something. You are well on your way to greatness!
Hi Zack you are awesome and an inspiration. Use finger diel gouge to double check the board before you cut. Chances are it will not be flat. Instead of carpet tape use screws and shims to clamp the blank. I was a cnc machinist for a very long time and that's how it works with that. Hope I helped. When you cut a dial gauges are your best friends.
I fumbled my way through cnc'ing circuit boards a few years back, and had good luck with an aluminum spoil board, superglue (rather than carpet tape), and acetone. helped keep things flat. I had dedicated alignment pin holes that I'd design into the boards, and they had teenie-tiny ground points on them to which I'd set the CNC x-y zero using a usb microscope. Yes, these pins were made from my vast collection of broken endmills.
Hopefully this reaches you 2 years ago so as to save you a bunch of headaches.
1. Set Height Map
2. Use a 30deg Spiral Engraving bit(please, just the tip)
3. You need to blow on it once the tip is in. Seriously, you need an air assist to clear the cuttings away from the bit path.
Great videos, by the way.
"you don't level the bed you mill a level surface into the bed" I died. Excellent comedic presentation.
Your videos are awesome! Thank you for putting so much work into them
Man thats incredible, you are a pioneer in this sort of thing it seems
If only the discord could have notified me of this video! I spent 3 hours depressed, lonely and board until Now where I’m just lonely
This is a comedy channel right? You're killing me!, I'm cramping up from all the amazing jokes!
Oddly, glass dust - unlike ground up moon rocks - is not pure cancer. Something about its organic nature means our lungs can actually digest and remove it.
I'm really happy to see a cnc mill successfully engrave a pcb. As you discovered, it's hard! Good work!
There is irony in the amount of snapped bits from the “snap maker”
The jokes in this episode are so good I feel like you got a writing staff. Awesome video man.
Your videos are very high quality. It's funny because your audience by topic is necessarily not mainstream. I wonder if you had a mainstream show if you'd be in the top 5? I think you certainly have the talent for it.
These puns are why I can't stop watching your videos
So glad i found your vid. I've been wondering for years what wheezy meant when he said "the combination is the G-Code."
Yay learning.
Great Video.The behavior cnc control "remembering last feedrate indefinitely" like Many G codes is referred to as Modal . CNC Control interprets the meaning XYZ IJK etc based on Mode. G20 inch mode G21 metric etc.
G90 and G91 for example are Absolute or Incremental Mode , G00 and G01 are rapid move or feedrate (F) move . G02 and G03 are cw or ccw arc mode. Some controls treat different commands as modal.
'Like a the dumpster behind a Whole Foods' hahahaha, that got me man! 😂😂😂 Great vid, thanks!
Dude's really got it out for TF2 today.
Take my subscription, you earned it.
This video has made me feel so much more competent about my projects and learning curve. Sometimes it feels like getting a new machine is its own version of smash it till you understand how to suck less.
this episode made me so proud of my local makerspace's piece of shit circuit mill. It can do at least on par isolation width with way cheaper tools. sometimes you gotta kick it to make it work but then it works really nicely and has done so for at least a decade at this point.
I bought a snapmaker 2.0 A350 during pre-order. I'm sad I've been so busy 3d printing for 2 years I haven't had much time.to even experiment with CNC or laser (I've also procrastinated building my own enclosure for lazer and CNC work so I don't cloud up my basement or blind my kids lol
I absolutely love the thing and it's cool to see big guys using them for stuff like this
Love the video! I'm excited to see what shnasty projects you come up with for this new toy!
Man you make the best videos, i can't take my eyes off, or else i feel like ima lose interesting information.
I like you how had the same problems that I did. I glad you show how hard it is to mill a pcb some some video make it look to easy and I feel like people may get trap by this. I am interested to try some of these very small end mill. Keep the cool Video comming !
Cool, look forward to seeing a big project with this in use!
Your videos are pure gold
"Jackdaws Love My Big Sphinx Of Quartz" is amazing! I'm stealing that as my keyboard test phrase. I love your videos!
Regarding the cutline width problem with v-bits: There are attachments called Engraving Milling Depth Regulator or similar that solve this issue. It also helps if the fiberglass material is not stuck down exactly flat.
“Slather with photonics gravy” 😂 this dude is funny
I hope this video takes off because it’s way cooler than mere 3D printing!
That area rug reference really took me back
I fucking love your videos man, keep it up. I don't even care if the next one is about cheese production or w/e. I'll watch it. I don't know a single channel that has this level of production value as well as these punny jokes and memes. Love it
I'm too dumb to follow the project itself yet I'm still entertained by the comedy
Great video Zach! I can see how having somethig like this would be really useful, especially with not needing to have parts sent back and forth. For another project you could try making a diy pen plotter.
That jab at TF2 hit me like a TF2.
Also, Micro Center! Hey! I work there!
This is a man who doesn't have a video game addiction
Excellent song absolutely beautiful! I think that was first premiered in New York at Central Park?
That's pretty sweet that they just gave you a CNC machine. I had to make my own. Being as copper clad board is conductive it's pretty easy material to map. You should probably find out what surface mapping is and how to do it. I stick PCB down with hot snot. It doesn't take much to hold it down really. If there's any pressure at that bit you know what happens to them. Snap!
you got my thumbs up with that little song in the middle.
Well, I think I found my new favorite channel.
I subbed at "1600mW of coherent photonic gravy".
I laughed out loud so many times during this episode. We’ll done yet again! 😂
Vacuum spoil board for your circuit boards. Then do like a .02 inlay into the the spoil board with fillets at the corners and lay the circuit board into the inlay not vacuum locked to the spoil board and aligned perfectly into the inlay
I use a trusty LPKF machine at work (Circa year 2000) and while the software has given me some troubles in the past with 2 layer boards, the large selection of bits has been great.
I know you're getting used to the machine but I use a bit that's 08-12 mil (depending on manual depth set) and whenever I lay out a board with some hairline traces, I just raise the bit up until I get JUST the copper clad removed. Sometimes I have to run the operation a few times to adjust it properly but I say this because your successful board on the precision end mill still looked a smidge deep and could be one of your issues. Of course, that's based on the camera angle but maybe it'll help.
Oh, wow, thanks for including the instructions.
2:28 thanks for the visuals, i almost get caught by the marketing