Former Christian Music Singer Jon Steingard: I No Longer Believe in God
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Jon Steingard was lead singer for the CCM band Hawk Nelson. On May 20, 2020, he posted on Instagram that he no longer believed in God, and his story went viral. Jon joins Seth Andrews for a candid conversation about his former faith, the word "atheist," the Christian Music industry, and the path forward.
Jon's instagram post: bit.ly/2Dhi9Xq
Esquire article on Jon: bit.ly/3faEgvT
Hawk Nelson website: hawknelson.com
“The truth is not afraid of questions” - Jon Steingard
questioning will send you straight to hell man.
gearguy65 thanks for this quote!
So good, thought it should be highlighted!
Die Pie Do not question the tastiness of pasta. Ramen!
He is not the first to say that.
I love that he said he feels it necessary to talk publically about his deconversion, because it should be okay to talk about those things.
I'd like to talk about my Atheist deconversion, in fact, I show ALL of my work.... would you like to see what this looks like in reverse? From Atheist, to KNOWER. No belief necessary. th-cam.com/video/XmreUIjkXNU/w-d-xo.html
@@thecrazedhaven
Dumb loon.
And he applauds his own dumb drooling.
@Alec Alberti I am converting to Reformed Pastafarianism. We believe in the trinity of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I guarantee you, after they hear me explain God as spaghetti, you will hear it, as well.
But, the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie may have had a hand in that phrasing. I don't think, I know." right before this scene. th-cam.com/video/imm-osRK_xs/w-d-xo.html
@Alec Alberti could one have made pasta out of manna had the secret of noodles been known by Moses?
I'm a pastor's kid, too. I used to be a worship leader at almost every fellowship. I'm now an atheist, who deconverted 3 years ago along with my husband who is a former Christian band member for almost 20 years. We love being an atheist. Life is better on this side of the fence. Freedom at last!
Mister Hand - Satan is a character from a fable - nothing more.
I don’t believe in the Bible either . Was sucked and in then got all bad feelings from it . Then Christians friends telling me I best cling on because we are in the end days , because if bill gates jab and mark of the beast . Yeah there is a dark agenda with those elites but Bible might have been written to push this agenda . They keep telling me I need to be saved and they are the chosen ones and i don’t have time as it’s getting closer . What are your views on the end days and how it fits what’s going on ? I honestly believe it’s a tool . They are very judge-mental . They honestly are rampant on social media at moment
Praise humanity! I think you mean "reverted". We're all born Atheist
Welcome to sanity :-)
Wow...that's so sad. While I can understand that the stress of being a pastors kid and to be faithful and perfect must have been difficult at best, I also think running from faith altogether is misplaced. I see people leave faith and become as fundamental in their atheism as they were in their belief. I was guilty of it. My point is..... freedom? Really? Nihilistic atheism ....no point at all to life? That's freedom? So the subjective goal for your life is hedonism? ok.
Yeah....I guess I've lived long enough to know that there is some kind of a transcendent value system I can't run from. I can't deny that lying cheating and stealing is wrong even if I can get away with it. I also know that there arre great things about me as a human being, but there are a ton of horrible things about me as well...and I wonder how I deal with those things....sins...etc...when I know without a doubt that I am called to be better. Once again, values. Sin creates chaos in a way that I can't condone. Values are big to me. But if nothing matters...there is no value in anything...why talk at all? What are we doing here sharing thoughts if they hold no value at all?
Such an inspiration. I am also an ex-christian musician I just haven't come out yet. I often have anxiety about my parents, friends and family finding out. This gave me a shit ton of hope haha.
Thanks Yahweh Coming out to your family is very scary....only a few of my family knows.
You just gotta be true to yourself. If your parents turn their back on their child because of it that is on them. You should never feel pressured to believe.
I'm imagining that you are an Atheist trolling other Atheists. You probably aren't, but I want to know how deep a joke name could be. If I click on your picture, and you have videos of Godly stuff, I'm gonna flip out. Listen to me, if you are real, don't skimp out on God because people screwed up the point of the book. Took it all literal.... agreed to let Pagan Hell, Literally, there is no Hebrew word for it. Tartarus is Greek. Ghehenna was a physical place. Don't let the stupid religion take you away from God. I'm gonna check your page now, and depending on what I see........ LMAO!!! NICE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! NICE!!!!!! Thank you!!! THANK YOU!!! either way, if you ever want to know What God REALLY IS, You'll partake of... The Raven Paradox. Is it Truth, or Fiction... What would it take to sit you and 6 of your friends down together and watch this, then review it? TRASH THE FUCK OUT OF IT.... what would it cost me? DO it online, DO IT LIVE!!!!! How much???? th-cam.com/video/XmreUIjkXNU/w-d-xo.html
@@Dobviews That seems to be the issue with the churches today, so quick to believe in hell, not so quick to believe in Jesus, or even the prodigal son (prodigal child) but how can a child repent for something if it isn't actually a sin, just judgement from the church? (appears to be a main issue for the last 500 years or so)
Life is too short; do it! And HE is listening anyways and wants you to be real for you not to please the bubble you were born into.
Congratulations to Jon and his wife on being true to themselves and their family and friends.
It really bothers me when people consider "someone no longer believing" as "something is wrong with them". O_o
I am expecting this same thing whenever I "come out" [which I really should have done long ago].
I never believed, for me it has been more like a cultural thing.
Like cliff jumpers or head hunters in other parts of the world.
Even in school my religion teacher (in my country its divided in catholic and protestant, others get an "ethics class") knew that i dont believe!
My mother was sad about it, she was catholic and a strong believer, suffering from cancer for around 20 years.
This kind of god is a bastard!
In my thinking there is something wrong with believers!
Or would you trust a car dealer that offers a invisible, everlasting car when you can only see and use it when you are dead?
Religion is the longest working scam ever!
How long have you known you didn’t believe?
@@nicosteffen364 Sometimes progress is slow and masses of People just get carried along on a wave of Traditionalism. For many Belief in the Religion is just something you do, a part of your Heritage. The problem right now is that it is becoming increasingly difficult for certain Religions to cope with the prevailing Worldview. This is causing many to fall away, but many others to also embrace Denialism.
@@benwincelberg9684 For me, I actually phased out of the religion ~ 10 years ago. For a short time, near the very end, I was still in it because I was playing on the music team [Bass guitar] and really enjoyed the music playing and the people. It's one of the hard things I had to give up.
Not that every family is the same, but my family was a very church going believing family. Now neither me, my two sisters, nor father subscribe to Christianity. Mom still tries to pray over the food at family gatherings though.
I was in my mid forties when I deconverted (from Christian fundamentalism). I went through the step of trying to find a kinder, gentler god by moving to evangelicalism, and even flirted for a short time with so-called "liberal" Christianity. I see much of my own journey in John's story.
It was the hardest thing I ever did, and required re-evaluating everything I ever believed in. The process took years, not months. John is on an exciting pathway. My best to him.
I went through the same thing. For years I was a conservative Evangelical Christian. Then in my 40's I became tired of all the "us vs them" rhetoric, the strawman arguments against secular people and the blatant hypocrisy I saw, but ignored, on an almost daily basis from my fellow Evangelicals. So I became a liberal Christian for about 10 yrs until I started to ask myself, "Do I really believe this?" It was then I read Hitchens book "God is Not Great" and it changed my life. I saw religion for what is was---a scam and a lie. I am now a liberal atheist and am the happiest I have been in years.
I was born into the Dominionist cult; didn't get out until I was 17. I'm gonna be 40 next year, and still have a lot of major issues with things to do with the movement.
Is there such a thing as religious PTSD?
Liam Wilbur sure. Being in a cult is like being in an abusive relationship. You sound as you might like theramintrees. It’s a channel run by an atheist therapist who makes videos about psychological issues concerning religion such as indoctrination, manipulation, psychological damage etc. I highly recommend checking it out if you’re interested Here’s a link to his video about recovering from religion.
th-cam.com/video/QRbnws-zITg/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/mzWI8k49IPE/w-d-xo.html
@@pansepot1490 thanks, I'll check that out.
I had a couple of friends that liked Hawk Nelson's music and they took me to a show quite a few years ago in Michigan. I wasn't really sure who they were at the time but still enjoyed myself, even as an atheist. This interview really brought up some memories.
Kudos to him for being able to come to his own conclusion and speak openly about it, especially being a public figure who had been tied to Christianity for such a long time. That's a real show of integrity and it's hard to not respect that.
Please elucidate on how attending a rock worship service could be a pleasant experience. You're cool with people praising a loving but murderous god? Eww.
Man, there would be a massive market for music specifically focusing on coming out of Christianity...he should really explore that!
spianny
It worked for the Beetles.
“Imagine there’s no heaven”
Exorcism metal!
Sure, I'd listen to Ex-Christian Rock.
I don't think there would lol. People coming out of Christianity no long need music specifically catering to such a thing as overcoming Christianity, any music talking about overcoming adversity will do.
Great idea!
I loved Hawk Nelson back in my junior high days, when I was still a Christian. I wish Jon all the best and commend him for his courage and conviction.
He's looking so much better than at the beginning when he was first 'coming out'. It makes me happy he seems more at peace now.
I can just hear the 32 thumbs-downers: He wasn't a "real" Christian.
Gotta love the "no true Scotsman" assholes.
This 'you never really believed' statement makes me crazy. It feels insulting to me. And like all things to do with faith - unprovable.
Lol that's what vegans say when someone starts eating animal foods again. Cult behavior.
Fallacious arguments are always comical. No true Scottsman is a common one in the delusional theist.
@@ceb591 Faith is feelings. Feelings can be genuine even if the object of those feelings is imaginary.
"The truth is not afraid of questions."
Jon's first song of freedom.
I like this guy's positive disposition. He seems like a person who genuinely cares about the stuff of life.
I can relate to this so strongly. I was such a gung-ho evangelical Christian back in the 80s/90s and was so into Christian music. I went to festivals like Atlanta Fest. My first real doubts began around 98 or 99 after reading the Bible all of the way through. But it was 2011 when I read John W. Loftus' book "Why I Became an Atheist" that I realized I didn't believe any of it anymore. Deconverted was the next book I read at that time. It was the perfect read for me at the time since I had been so involved in Christian music but found myself an atheist. I think the Hiddenness of God issue is the first one where I thought, "wow, this makes so much sense now." No wonder God is hidden. He doesn't exist.
Tim317 it reminds me of the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz, who’s just a man behind a curtain.
Either he does not exist or does not want someone or anyone to find him.
Personally the only thing that will convince me of a God is God being shown to exist.
Meaning for us to be able to run test that can be repeated and those test show /demonstrate a God.
Birdsong - except in this case, there is no man behind the curtain! Hide seek world champion- God! 😂
Throughout my 20 atheist years I have heard many deconversion stories of people who became atheist after reading the bible from beginning to end. It's my story too. So often christians only read it in pieces. Maybe they have read the whole thing in their pieces, but not through beginning to end. I am a firm believer in understanding the bible means to become an atheist.
GOD HIDES FROM NO ONE ! JESUS said ; unless a man is BORN AGAIN (SPIRITUALLY ) HE CAN NOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. GOD also said whoever seeks and searches for ME with ALL THEIR HEART WILL FIND ME . But the NATURAL MAN ( MAN OF FLESH AND BLOOD ) does not RECIEVE the things of the SPIRIT OF GOD for they are FOOLISHNESS TO HIM , nor can he KNOW them , because THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED . THE truth is SIR , you never BELIEVED AT ALL ! when you HEARD THE WORD , SATAN CAME IMMEDIATLY and took the WORD OUT OF YOUR HEART. And the REASON the GOSPEL IS HIDDEN FROM YOU IS---- SATAN WHO IS THE god of this world HAS BLINDED YOUR MIND TO NOT BELIEVE, lest the LIGHT of the GOSPEL of THE GLORY OF CHRIST , who is the IMAGE of GOD should shine on YOU. Remember this ; if the GOSPEL is HIDDEN it is Hidden from those who are PERISHING . SO BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART AND CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH , THE LORD JESUS, AND THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED , FOR REAL MY FRIEND !!!
...and then there was me at age 13 in 8th grade when asked by classmates after lunch one day "you're a chris chun, aren't you?" "what's that?" I replied because I never heard of him before and had a feeling 'chun' meant FAN or something like that (this happened during Kiss Army days). I had NO idea what they were talking about - they quickly filled me in then proceeded to tell me I was an eighth-iest "what's that?" they filled me in Cheese Us died for our sins (I was clueless being aspergers and raised in a totally secular household) and those kids thought I was weird!
Hilarious 😂
th-cam.com/video/mzWI8k49IPE/w-d-xo.html
😆, did they successfully indoctrinate you?
Haha, you're worse than me. Grew up in a communist (and therefore anti religious) country until I was 5. My secular family emigrated to a western country where the majority religion is Catholicism. We took our first little holiday shortly before Christmas and drove to the countryside. Walked around a bit, encountered a little chapel with a cross with a carved Jesus. Quite a number of people standing in front, admiring the flowers and decorations, probably silently praying a bit. Little me looks at the Jesus figure, points a finger straight at him and blurts our "Who's that?! And what's he doing up there?!?"
My parents never dragged me away more quickly from anything. Those poor country folk must have looked at my parents like I was the spawn of Satan or something.
@Rebecca Leeman My husband and I jokingly talk about starting a pizza place called Cheesus Crust that basically has pizza and similar foods named with puns related to religion. That's what this comment reminds me of. :)
I’m not an ex-Christian, but I did leave the church and “church” people.
Right on! God/Bible still true to me! church is questionable/fraud! money-maker only. Did my deep investigations.
@@yuujeff1 what is it about the bible that convinces you that it’s true?
@@Glasstable2011 Ive been listening to a gnostic on yt and the train of thought in gnosticism is that there is a god/creator/christ but that the Bible is in error in many parts. So while I still read the Bible, like every Christian, I do cherry pick. Many of the words of Jesus like being humble, foregoing wealth esp if it has a hold on you, loving your neighbor as yourself...these things remain important to me.
@@Glasstable2011 So I think there are many parts that are true, not just historically, but all the parts that talk about how we should live-- mainly in the NT. I also believe faith is a real thing, not very understood by many. I left the institutional church years ago after doing studies on xmas and easter. And finding that I was being persecuted for asking questions. My next statement will seem strange: if I were not born again, Id probably be an atheist.
@@deirdremorris9234 it’s interesting that you say if you weren’t born again you’d be an atheist. Would it be fair to say that personal experiences and feelings play a big part in your belief system?
“It is possible to go through this process with Kindness.”
“Once you’re out of the matrix you cant go back.”
Damn XD
Jon's comment about simultaneously reading books from opposing perspectives about the existence (or not) of God precisely echoes my own deconversion experience from a decade ago, when I was in my late 40's. So, I am very impressed and happy for him that he started down the path of self-guided exploration for truth at a much younger age than myself.
As other's have stated here; my full deconversion took years, not months, so the sooner the process is undertaken, the better, in my opinion.
Congratulations Jon.
I like this dude ( no homo...of course ). He seems to intelligent for the " Christian Nationalist delusion ".
@davesipsy How did you know when your deconversion process was over? Its been a little over a year for me since I started mine.
@@Raydensheraj- Why did you feel you had to *clarify* your _sexual orientation_ with the weird, _homophobic_ disclaimer, "no homo...of course" - to let us readers know you don't like him *romantically or sexually?* Most readers wouldn't jump to that conclusion - and it's *_okay_*_ to be _*_gay_* - even if _you_ are not.
I really wish Seth had spent a lot more time delving deeply into Jon's deconversion experience. The hows, whens and whys.
I feel like he asked cool questions but didn't give Jon the space to answer them 😣
I'll give you a deconstruction, how, when, and why, from Atheist to...... God is science. You wouldn't care though would you?
Jon actually started a TH-cam channel and goes into great detail on this 😊
Jon Steingard, "Once you are unplugged from the matrix, you can't go back." I love this!
'Benignly attractive' - an excellent phrase.
Sex is bad mmk?
juice spreading atheism and homosexuality in the land.
atheism is a plot that they use as they couldn't be victorious with their tribal religion. And atheism is polytheism of taking stardust particles as creators. It's worse than idolatry. Because idolaters do not take inanimate idols as creators, whereas atheists say atoms created this world.
@@Ibn_Abdulaziz_2 I think you want that to be what atheists say. You should probably figure it out tho before you comment
@@allthingsconsideredaa Don't you believe atoms and gravity brought about this world, smashing in together until the earth and man was created?
Making inanimate particles with no knowledge or will and power, equal with the Creator of this world just because you want to follow your lusts, play satanic musical instruments - does not justify it. How does this radio talker answer the question: is hitler equal with his victims as stardust particle righy now or does this world exist with the absolute truth and justice?
@@Ibn_Abdulaziz_2 that's not what I believe. Maybe you should stop asserting and assuming you know what everyone believes like you are some mind reader. Sounds like some sort of voodoo. You must believe in voodoo, huh? Why are you asking me what the host thinks about the situation you brought up? Why don't you email them instead of asking me? You think I believe in voodoo like you do?
We can teach our kids everything that is good without the God thing. After all, the morality the Bible claims was around much longer than that fiction
th-cam.com/video/mzWI8k49IPE/w-d-xo.html
Agreed. I've always found it strange that people cite the Bible as a "Moral guide"....most of the book is unsuitable for children.
I can't stand it when they call the bible old or new a book that we should be getting our morals from. That's why so many atheists sometimes tongue in cheek most times not say reading the bible ALL OF IT is what finally convinced them of the immorality that they base their religion on . Also a great book for people reasoning their way out of christianity is Who Wrote the bible you find out what you thought was true definitely wasn't
The Hamurabic Code supports that statement . As does altruistic behaviour in social animals .
@@thomasrenovales1298 That reeks of mental illness
Seeing someone I used to listen to come out of it makes me so proud and also a lot less alone, like maturing alongside someone. Makes me feel a little more hopeful for humanity. Like we're not all fucking delusional.
I love this guys courage an honesty. It could not have been easy for him to come out.
Welcome! I have been to several of Hawk Nelson’s concerts and I’m glad you’re doing better now
I love how he talked about his band and the industry being the Christian alternative to band x. I was like, "Did he watch Seth's speech about the topic!?"
I still can’t say I’m an atheist to all my loved ones. I have to select friends though. However, I still add the definition about non-belief. ✌🏼 and ❤️ to all.
Andrea , Reading that "you can't tell to your loved ones" showes the sectarian behaviour of the religious people. They are manipulating eachother, not knowing exactly for who and why..... That's the power of the "church spell".
My Imaginary Invisible Friend
Can you explain that technique to me please, I know a few people who I want to prove that to.
Atheism is just another way to worship the false gods of nature. The same tribal shamans of the past with their scary collection of animal parts and strange plants and herbs. Today's shamans wear lab-coats and goggles. God's existence can be found in every subatomic particle, at every atom and molecule and at every living cell. Yes the bible is a corrupted book. Quran is the last message from God.
@Arkadip Mondal Mulla basically means a teacher of language or mathematics (used in the era before public education becomes the norm.) So, thank you :))
Boston34782 what kind of god do you believe in? If it’s just a name you give to whatever created the cosmos, then there is no evidence against it. But the trick is to only believe in something after evidence is provided for it
This is fascinating. In my area, in the 70s, I was a pioneer in Christian Rock and contemporary music. I lost my faith in the late 80s, but it's been fascinating watching Christian music over the decades. Jon, glad you lost your faith!!
God's existence is a reality not a blind faith.
Mazen Ba-abbad
The thing about reality is that we're generally able to corroborate it with those around us.
God, not so much.
@@ChrisFineganTunes My dear friend,
Billions of electromagnetic pulses are generated in our brains and they jump across billions of different neurons, we don't know how, when or where, but these pulses give us all the senses, feelings, emotions, thoughts, responses and communications. Even more, we and many living creatures (even bacteria and fungi) have built-in and programmed memory (like ROM in the computer motherboard), that give us the basic functions before we are born.
So, do you still feel that you are not able to corroborate that??
May peace be upon you
Mazen Ba-abbad
I'm not sure I follow... We can corroborate reality with those around us but we cannot corroborate God. Either we don't experience God or we experience different gods or we experience the same god in very different ways. There is no consensus.
If your point is that the human mind is incredible and that we don't understand consciousness, then I agree it's fascinating and that there's much for us to learn. That doesn't prove or even imply a God unless you expect a God to be there in the first place.
@@ChrisFineganTunes My dear friend, we can corroborate many common things if we tuned to the same frequency. For example, we can all recall the warmth of the sun, the freeze of the winter and many common feelings and emotions. Even if they have zero physical presence.
For example, none of us ever saw our mothers given birth to us (even if it was videoed, as there is zero physical proof that the baby in the video is our present self), but despite that we can easily realize that that we must have been born to a human female. The same thing with all our ancestors, that we realize the absolute necessity for their existence.
Otherwise, we can simply tell our parents that they are trying to fool us, and we opened up our eyes and saw our beds, so the beds must have created us.
May peace be upon you
It takes strength and courage to come out publicly as a non believer but when you do, it feels like a heavy burden has been lifted off your shoulder. Glad you are telling your story.
What a great interview! Seth asks intelligent questions, then sits back and LISTENS! So often the interviewer just wants to hear himself talk and wants to spew his own ideas. Seth plays off his guest, never interrupts. And John has such a great message. To do your transition with kindness. Seriously, one of the best interviews I've listened to. Let me know when the "the truth is not afraid of questions " tshirts are available! 😉
"It wasn't until I realized that my career didn't depend on me holding any one particular belief that I felt the freedom to start asking difficult questions...'
Wow... Can we get William Lane Craig some computer programming training or something?
It reminds me of how abused wives can often only leave their husbands when they develop an alternative source of income.
It wasn’t until WLC started earning money from his alternative career in MMA that he felt the freedom to start asking difficult questions
He must’ve actually read the Bible like the rest of us!!!
That done it for me. I read the bible straight though without skipping or using a study guide or concordance. Seeing all the contradictions and evil in the bible was overwhelming.
Exactly. I decided to read through it when I was about 14 or 15. Didn't take long before I realized there are so many things I could never agree with or tolerate in life. By the end I was completely pulled away from any belief in the "word of god".
@@blakecarlson1057 very close with my experience. I was die hard Christian up until I was about 16. I read the Bible and it was enough to make me realize it's all nonsense. I read it again in my mid 20s just to refresh my memory and really look deeper into it to pick it apart. Not that hard once you actually read it
The very last place I need any advice from is a book written so long ago that the people did not yet even know it was a bad idea to trade their kids for a goat!
I saw a interview with a Christian show and he said that what started him questioning his faith is that when was filming a documentary in third-world country. There he saw a young child suffering from what I believe was hunger and illness, and he ask why would God allow this, but allow some Joe get a good parking spot in th church parking lot.
Wisdom! I really enjoyed this interview. One of the best on this channel.
This is now my fav episode. I still have the Australia Rant and the other one about the Bible way to good health on my phone. Please keep up the good work. Content like this has been invaluable in our lives.
IM FINALLY HONEST WITH MYSELF AND OTHERS!
This is amazing! I have been an atheist for the last year and a half...but I was born into Christianity and lived it whole heartedly all my life until I was almost 38 when god disappeared without my consent even though I tried desperately to hold on. Hawk Nelson was some of my favorite music and some I missed the most when god disappeared. I faced an identity crisis so huge bc my identity was no longer in in Christ that I legally changed my name 8 months later. I didn’t know who I was anymore. Thank you for sharing this. We are not alone!🖤
It’s interesting hearing him say things like “wrestle with it” I remember coming out to a guy at church that very much reminds me of john and hearing him say things like “you might need to just wrestle with these doubts and questions to find your way”. (I was 3 months out the door by then having become a pagan and quickly an atheist, there was really no going back at that point) edit: 59:30, thats how it felt for me, as soon as I realized it wasn’t true there was no going back. I couldn’t force myself to believe if i wanted too, and with regard to the Christian god, the longer I’ve been out the more I’ve realized I don’t have a reason to want him to be true.
I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate this interview! This evoked a ton of memories, and inspired me to keep on keeping on...thank you very much!!
The Presenter has got an amazing voice.. chooses his words well.
What a great interview and a great guy that I had never heard of. Thanks for this!
Thank you Seth for this wonderful conversation. When I was still a christian, I love a lot of christian music and I still do even now being an atheist. I don't shy away from christian music just because I'm an atheist since I'm a type of listener who looks for the good sound rather than meaningful lyrics.
Wow, I could just see seth's mind go crazy when he mentioned Christian versions of pop bands. I've seen his video on the satanic panic which spells this out!
I've been waiting for this one ❤️
His realization that many of his views rely on his Christain upbringing is refreshing. Many channels I watch be they Christian or atheist in content fail to do that. Especially the willingness of many atheist to disregard the beliefs of Catholics as compared to the relative seriousness they afford to Protestant claims, is obviously reflective of their personal history.
What a great interview. In The Prophet of Zod he was interviewed and a Christian apolofist had rather "unkind" words for Jon. I want to note the difference I note with him now and when he was a Christian. He seems so at ease, smiling, relaxed as if a weight had been taken off of him. Great for him.
Watching this for the 3rd time. Seth You are the best interviwer! Love your voice and tge way you ask questions.Thank you Jon for honest. I noticed Jon has 'disappeared' from the public domain. No longer active on Instagram or TH-cam.
I can't be the only one who was waiting for this
Been a deconverted xian for over 10 years myself, but I have to say as a lifelong drummer and music fan, so called Xian music is the absolute most vapid, insipid & unoriginal "style" ever concocted.
When I was a believer I tried to listen only to Christian radio and collected dozens of Christian cds over a period of a few years. I even answered a call by a local Christian store to bring my "secular" or "devil" music to the store and trade them for Christian cds, so that's what I did. I rationalized Clapton, CCR, JJ Cale, Van Morrison and Johnny Cash and kept them for myself.
His last statement is golden. Being honest with yourself with complete humility is one of the best things we can do for ourselves. Great interview!
I'm thankful to my parents for allowing to choose my own beliefs. Religion may work for some but, for me... it just doesn't make any sense? I feel for those trapped in a faith they no longer believe. The torment they must go through can be severe. Power to all those who find the light!... the light being the strength to question.
Well, I _am_ happy that he's in the "tribe" of the free. Welcome to the Pariah. 👏
One of the best interviews on the internet regardless of subject matter.. purely from interviewer-interviewee communication, one of the best I’ve ever seen ESPECIALLY considering it’s a web-call.
Great interview Seth, really enjoyed the conversation and your ability to avoid labeling his positions letting the session flow seamlessly.
I like this guy.He’s a great example of a non-believer with a loving heart, which is the SAME as he was when he believed in God. He’s gone through this without becoming angry, bitter or cynical toward others ❤️❤️❤️ 🌷 Seth seems to be expecting an “us vs.them” mentality that’s just not there.
I had the same experience of realizing that praying wasn’t having an effect, and that it was my responsibility to do something about situations.
It made me feel more connected and engaged in life!
I would not say he is looking for drama he seems to just be asking questions which is needed in an interview.
I have not watched the whole video though but for now he is just asking questions.
Thank the God I don't believe in that Steingard found his way out of his religion!
Great job Seth on asking tough, penetrating questions but still being respectful, and kudos to you Jon for your courage and honesty. Brilliant interview!
This former Blues/Rock/Jazz singer...and former Xian...would be glad to gig with Jon in a secular set. Of course, at 71, I am a couple of steps slower on-stage than I was at 16. LOL
The having "The sinners prayer" at 4 years old hit home with me. I loved my mother but that was one mistake she definitely made with her kids.
At 4 years old, it's called child abuse!
@@jeff2424 Yeah my mom asked me before she passed if she made any mistakes as a mom and I was honest with her i told her this was a mistake. Btw Im not bashing my mama. I loved her dearly. But nobody is perfect.
@@SouthernSkeptic Honesty is needed even if the person takes it wrong and yeah everyone has their flaws.
Even so it's good you love your mom which most people do and is perfectly natural.
@@SouthernSkeptic maybe you cleared the air and gave any doubts she had peace by being honest with her. The truth hurts but imagine your mother having some sort of remorse how she raised her children, thats baggage you don't want dragging you down at the end of life.
Good on you, to me you made the right choice.
@@onnol917 Maybe. I think she was just sad I didn't believe in her God anymore. But she had 7 children and I doubt she asked the others. We were very close.
For me, I became a Christian as a young adault, but the more I learn and read, the more I lean towards a humanistic brand of liberal christianity if. If the Bible is "inspired and innerrorent true absolutely" than why can't any two churches believe the exact same things? If the God of the Bible is all good, benevolent, ext...than why was raising, raping and pillaging commanded by God???
And why was “the book” (an essay collection) from only one tiny piece of the world ? Makes no sense. You would think the Creator of the Universe could arrange for worldwide release.
Yes and maybe do it in a culture that has the written word already (I’m talking Old Testament).
China or Japan would have done.
People are the rules writers, and the rules at certain times allowed slavery, rape, etc., and those same rule makers give a “god” all the credit. That is the answer to the initial question.
Or you can drop the Christian part and just be a humanist.
“I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
_-Kurt Vonnegut_
“A preoccupation with the next world clearly shows an inability to cope credibly with this one.”
_-Richard K. Morgan_
“Scientists do not join hands every Sunday and sing "Yes gravity is real! I know gravity is real! I will have faith! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about the concept.”
_-Dan Barker_
“Atheists such as Diderot, D'Alembert, D’Holbach, and Condorcet are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.”
_-Thomas Jefferson_
“If you think God’s there, He is. If you don’t, He isn’t. And if that’s what God’s like, I wouldn’t worry about it.”
_-Haruki Murakami_
*”With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”*
_-Steven Weinberg - Nobel Laureate, Physics_
@@whatwouldjanewaydo If he's so loving why would he create some people knowing they would never have access to the Bible and would therefore be tortured for a literal eternity.
I was raised a christian in the bible belt. I became an atheist after serving in the military. I am a Gulf War Vet. I always enjoy interviews where people discuss their journey from religion to atheism and the catalyst that started that journey. This was a great video to watch.
I just think it's nice for him to be able to see his journey and talk about it. I've never heard of the band but hearing that a former christian band member has left his faith behind is exciting to me. Maybe not to the extent of "wow he's in my camp" but definitely see it as a step forward that more people are not believing theism anymore.
I think that no matter who he - or anyone else - is, it's hope for the future. And humanity.
Seth's hard hitting journalist skills in action. Excellent questions drawing out valuable insights. 👍👍👍 Makes one wonder how many mega church pastors are aware of the utter BS of their "beliefs," yet cling to the lucrative business model. Religion and politics, birds of a feather.
th-cam.com/video/mzWI8k49IPE/w-d-xo.html
@Derek I can't speak for all pastors other than the many I've known who very clearly believe the lunacy of their "message," even while not following it or living up to it (that curious aspect of acceptable immorality, haha), but, yes, subjecting children to this toxic nonsense is utterly disgusting and abusive.
@@thomasrenovales1298 th-cam.com/video/1P-929oSyjk/w-d-xo.html
Love Seth but I wouldn't really call this "hard hitting".
135i pocketrocket
Perfect response mate 👏😘
Ran lights and sound for them at my church years ago, I’m also now a non-theist.
Thank you for this story ... very inspiring. I’ve been out of the church for about 20 years now and have loved the journey I have been on. Blessings to you !
Hawk Nelson was the soundtrack of my middle school/high school years. I can relate to so much of this conversation as a now-atheist that only recently left the faith.
I was a Christian when this guy came out. And I remember being at a church youth group talk were the pastor was talking about why we thought he would come out. And looking back now I'm shocked how most answers were he was doing it for attention.
Fair and factual from Fox"News" Have I fallen through another portal? What universe am I in now?
LMAO!!
Lol I no longer believe in God but thanks to Trump, I now believe in demons 😂
First-rate. Intellectually honest, with no trace of narcissism. Impressive interview.
Wow, gentlemen, that was such a great interview. Great questions, great insight. John, thank you so much for sharing. Ex-Mormon here.
Hawk Nelson?
Well if I was to become a professional wrestler there's my ring name
I only ever mastered the Hawk Half Nelson.
@@nathanjasper512 lol
Crap ....someone beat me to the half or full nelson joke
"What do we teach our kids?"
The truth.
Say to them
"some people believe X, some believe Y, but nobody knows"
Don't teach the what to think, teach them how to think critically.
th-cam.com/video/mzWI8k49IPE/w-d-xo.html
Sir , please tell me what TRUTH do you KNOW to tell your kids , that GOD HIMSELF has never said that was not THE TRUTH for them to live by ? I agree with you that PEOPLE don't know why some believe x and some believe y , BUT GOD DOSE KNOW WHY . It's all in HIS WORD ; THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST found in the BIBLE ! READ IT PLEASE ! and be taught yourself the TRUTH , so you can in turn be able to teach your children how to live by that which is always TRUTH and is never changing.
@@colstonlane7331 The bible is a collection of stories (complete with major contradictions) that has nothing to do with being the word of any god. It is at best a mostly fictional history book with a rare truth. Lots of far-fetched fiction in that book.
@@cocatfan OK 👌 so the Bible is a book of FICTION Huh. So please tell me sir 🙏 what is your faith in, that will give me peace of mind and of heart ? That will strengthen me when I'm weak, and give me hope day by day. That will give me peace in times of sickness and tribulation ? What is it that you believe that gives me assurance of eternal life after I die that would make me want to throw away my Bible and follow what you believe ? I anxiously await your answer.
grew up listening to this band. I believe more artists are going to get the courage to do this
This gives me hope and inspiration to come out to my family. I bet it was hard, but this dude has laid out a path and inspired many. We can do this in a loving way and a level head.
Also the lead singer of Jars of Clay was blacklisted from radio for just talking about the LGBT community. He didn’t confess anything or say he’s for Gay marriage, he only asked to the void why it’s seen as wrong for Christians. The Gungor group were kicked off radio as well for being more liberal and creative. Singing about natural things like sex and childbirth. My favorite song by them is “Beautiful things.” They left Christianity and have a Vice interview about it. I’m so sad they got shunned by the cult of Christian music. These bands made tons of money for these genres and now they’re kicked out. It’s sick! I grew up with these people and felt comfort then. I’m a Satanist now but I appreciate the memories
You a member of the Satanic Church or the Satanic Temple?
@NWO Official 666 Im a member of the Temple as well ;)
@Mini Manson Satan is a label, not a name.
His hair came out as an unbeliever first.
Thanks for giving him a platform to share his journey, Seth. God bless you both. Much love, -Kenneth
I've noticed a shift away from organized religion and churches but still belief in a "Supreme or Creator Being". However more and more folks are telling me they're Atheist. Think they've always been around but now exercising the right and freedom NOT to be religious.
Enjoyed this interview... Especially the honesty and genuine kindness of Jon.
Evangelical belief requires constant recharging to stick. Once you take out the peer pressure and culture it all falls apart.
What a great guy! Enjoyed this story so much, it helped me feel less upset about my brother teaching his children to be christian, because I feel like they are going to be okay and can find their own path.
I listened to them back in the day, nice to know that at least one of the christian artists that I grew up listening to also left the faith.
There's more and more of us out there!
Knowledge is power. If anyone needs support against religious, social, or cultural abuses, this can help them: “On Human Suffering and the Concept of God”- the psychological nature of religions.
neomodernistpoetry.blogspot.com/2018/11/on-human-suffering-and-concept-of-god.html
homoeroticpoems.blogspot.com/2018/06/on-human-suffering-and-concept-of-god.html
Definitely. There are whole lot more than we originally thought. Alot of people, including myself, still haven't come out as atheist, especially towards our family for fear of rejection in my case.
An "alter call" after a Jane's Addiction show in 1989 would likely have been a religious experience.
Music is actually the only SACRED thing these things have in common lol. Music is used in church and they worry about secular music so music.
Thanks for sharing Jon. I was there.
Former Assemblies of God believer. Always thought it was odd with the hidden resentment towards other denominations due to their hypocrisy without seeing their own.
It's amazing to have stumbled across this video as a former fan of the lesser religious music Hawk Nelson produced. I truly hope he gets back into music. I would love to hear this story.
I wish you would have asked some of his sources he listened to or read on the skeptical side. Perhaps Hitch, Harris or AXP?
You did the right thing, it is better to be open and honest, ethical, and moral. so coming out as an atheist, seems as though it was the right choice
As a former Christian, I can say the "Atheist" always came off as "HOSTILE or against God." But on another thought: My favorite concert memory is getting a Tract from these Christian protestors outside of the entrance to a Nine Inch Nails concert. One side had Anglican White Jesus with flowy blonde hair and a white robe, with flames behind him, and the other side had "Get out of HELL FREE" on the other side. My friends had walked by them and reused to take the tract. I hung back, went over, and said, "Hi" , took one, and then ran back to my friends and said, "Cool! Look what *I* just got!" They were jealous and wanted one, too. That was a funny memory.
I have huge respect for people who have the courage and commitment to critically examine their fundamental beliefs in an honest, open and critical way. In many ways you are not only examining an entire belief system but also who you are. Challenging a part of your identity and that is possibly one of the hardest things a human being can do.
Don‘t you have heard the good news?
God sacreficed his only son so only asskisser who worship him everyday can be saved vor an endless Torturen and boredom in hell!
Prise the LORD for his chaos and brutality!
I became a non believer due too a fallen Pastor he was the nail in the coffin of course he lied his way out of it as he always had done
Thanks Pastor Aubrey Underwood for allowing me through your actions too wake up and finally see the light
Yep. As a Catholic, it was a HUGE STRUGGLE for me to keep the Faith considering the crap the Church has pulled over the centuries. If I were still a believer, I’d bet my house on the Anti-Christ being the actual Catholic Church
You blame the actions of a hypocrite for you tunring your back on God? Good luck living life blaming your actions on other people.
the bible is literal...except when it is not...never made any sense to me.
The real question is this. What does God need with a book?
@Chait Singh but jeebus.
@@inertiaforce7846 gf out go o po C igipg C I uggoc ucofufcxtaPhil I a was
You just don't know the word and never learned it. Be honest.
@@inertiaforce7846 God never made a book and never needed one to speak to mankind. These things were written by real people and their experience recorded for those who would later believe. New testament are actual letters from one person to another that's it. It's not a textbook for religion.
Jon, if you end up reading the comments on this video, I just want you to know that we are all proud of you. Best of luck to you on your journey.
06:00 I have respect for Tooth and Nail records. I still have one of their old sample CD's (#3) from the mid-90's. Introduced me to some cool acts and genres back when I hadn't heard much secular music beyond the 1970's yet.
It took me a long time to deconvert to atheism. And I am glad about the journey.
Being brought up in a secular family in scandinavia, these kinds of stories just keep confusing me with how great the pressure to be religious in the US is.
Part of me is jealous of your upbringing and another part of me is glad I went through everything, so that I can now have a voice of empathy for those struggling with it.
@@user-fj6kk1vo8n That's an extremely reasonable way of looking at the world. Keep being nuanced, friend.
The religious pressures is REAL! I'm from Oklahoma, a very religious state.
@@toastedcheeze2357 Hell yeah it is. I was raised in TX and they only know two things: football and Jesus.
I want to move somewhere in Scandinavia, Norway is my main choice, for a variety of reasons, but I'd be lying if I said this wassn't part of the influence. I tend not to dwell too much on the social stuff though cos it's hard to find data points on it, and only anecdotes. I find the happiness index to be very promising for scandinavia.
I'm happy this young man has a positive family experience through this. It's easy for us on "this side" of the rationality of faith over evidence to be welcoming, it's difficult for those on the other side that can feel it's a terrible mistake.
I am so impressed with Jon. He strikes me as a remarkably intelligent, insightful, and compassionate human being. So glad this came up in my TH-cam recommendations.