Hi everybody! I want to remind everyone to join our DRMSH exclusive community. We are going to have tons of exclusive content like weekly live sessions, protected articles, and more. So, sign up now! community.drmsh.com/
In the Gospel According to Matthew, the Savior is to be known as “Emmanuel,” which means “God with us” (Matthew 1:23). This is not His Personal name, it is a descriptive name identifying who He is to us. He is “God with us,” Emmanuel! Also, “He shall be called a Nazarean” (Matthew 2:23, Nazarene), however, His Personal name is by revelation and is a specific name (Matthew 1:21). Matthew 2:23 “And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, ‘He shall be called a Nazarean.’” Question: Where did the prophets in the Old Testament prophesy, “He shall be called a Nazarean”? Answer: There is no prophet in the Old Testament, who prophesied, “He shall be called a Nazarean”! Question: Well then, do we know what His Personal name truly is? Answer: The angel of the Lord said, “...you shall call His name…” (Matthew 1:21). This is a commandment, which makes the actual revealed name given to the Savior of utmost importance. Most would say that the Savior’s name is “Jesus.” Unfortunately, this name was never revealed by God, nor did God authorize the name Jesus. Question: So it goes, did the angel say the name, “Jesus?” This is what we need to know. Answer: No. Historically, the name Jesus has only existed in its present form since the 17th century. A change was made that caused the Savior’s supposed name to become Jesus, which was never authorized by God. In the 1611 KJV of the Bible, we find the name “Iesus.” Pronounced “ee-sus” changed to Jesus, “gee-sus,” after the year 1632. No angel gave the commandment from God to the disciples of Christ allowing them to call Christ by the name, “Jesus.” Therefore, the name Jesus is a substitute name. Iesus comes from Iesous, which is a transliteration of the name Yeshua. Because the name of the Savior is a revealed name, this kind of linguistic evolution is not honored by God, which defies His revelation and commandment. To accept a substitute name is to reject the very name revealed by God. More specifically, substitute names, such as Jesus, Iesus, or Iesous are in reality a rejection of the true revealed name of the Savior. Question: Why does it matter what name we use, after all, I speak English so I say, “Jesus.” And someone else speaks Spanish, so they say, “Hey-zeus.” or another speaks Arabic, and they say, “Isa.” So there are many names for Christ, right? Answer: God knows all things, but He also knows that the name that was revealed by Him was rejected for a substitute name not authorized by Him. The following Scriptures prohibit the use of any other name but the revealed name from Heaven. YAHSHUA is the revealed name commanded by God to be given to the Savior. It is an exclusive name and not to be changed. Acts 4:8 “Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, ‘Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of YAHSHUA the Messiah of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Therefore, choose this day that you will accept the one name given among men by which we must be saved! From these three names, Jesus, Iesus, and Iesous come all the substitute names unauthorized by God around the world. The essence of the Gospel tells us we stand condemned if we reject the revealed name of the Savior by accepting a substitute name instead. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Matthew 1:20 “But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name YAHSHUA, for He will save His people from their sins.’” Consider the prophet Isaiah, who wrote, “Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For YAH, the Lord, is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation’” (Isaiah 12:2 NKJV, which accurately translates from the Hebrew). Sing to God, sing praises to His name; Extol Him who rides on the clouds, by His name YAH, and rejoice before Him” (Psalm 68:4 NKJV). YAH is the essential name for our salvation as expressed in the name YAHSHUA, YAH=I AM, and shua=salvation. Question: How do we know for sure that our Savior’s one and only true name that was given for our salvation is the name YAHSHUA? Answer: Throughout the Hebrew and New Testament Scriptures, Christ our Savior is the LORD YAH (Isaiah 44:6-8, Christ is the Rock, 1 Corinthians 10:1-4). YAH means “I AM” (Exodus 3:13-15). YAH (I AM) is the name which is above every name (Philippians 2:9). Christ told the Jews that He is YAH, as in “I AM” (John 8:58). The apostle Paul encounters Christ on the Road to Damascus, and asks “Who are you Lord?” Christ replies in Hebrew His name (Acts 26). Paul identifies in the letter to the Philippians 2:9, “He has the name which is above every name.” An angel of the LORD comes to Joseph in a dream, and says, “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name YAHSHUA, for He will save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21). YAHSHUA means “I AM Salvation.” The apostle Paul was very clear that in every language His name is to be the same, “and that every tongue should confess that YAHSHUA the Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:11). Hebrew names very often consist of two elements: a verb and the name of God, in this case, יה (YAH), which is short for יהוה; YHWH or YaHaWaH, the living God of Israel. This name given to Moses means YAH=I AM, hawah=to be, as in ever-present, and so God’s name means I AM Ever-present. Question: Where in the Hebrew Scripture does any of the prophets say, “He shall be called a Nazarean?” Answer: It could not be found anywhere in the Scriptures that a prophet said, “He shall be called a Nazarean (or Nazarene). Therefore, we must take a closer look at the name Nazareth, and we found the following: Nazareth, isolated, generally supposed to be the Greek form of the Hebrew netser, a "shoot" or "sprout,” or “branch.” Matthew is telling us that He, Christ, is “the Branch,” as the prophets foretold. When we take a closer look at the word Nazarean (Nazarene) we find a meaning, a Hebrew meaning. This is what Matthew was telling us, that YAHSHUA is the Branch as spoken by the prophets. Isaiah 4:2, “In that day the Branch of the Lord shall be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and appealing for those of Israel who have escaped.” Isaiah 11:1 “There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots. Jeremiah 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord {YAH}, “That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: ‘THE LORD {YAH} OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.’ 7 “Therefore, behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord {YAH}, “that they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord {YAH} lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ 8 but, ‘As the Lord {YAH} lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ And they shall dwell in their own land.” Jeremiah 33:14 ‘Behold, the days are coming,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah: 15 ‘In those days and at that time I will cause to grow up to David A Branch of righteousness; He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. Zechariah 3:8 ‘Hear, O Yeshua, the high priest, you and your companions who sit before you, for they are a wondrous sign; for behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH. Zechariah 6:12, Then speak to him, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, saying: “Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH! From His place, He shall branch out, and He shall build the temple of the Lord; 13 Yes, He shall build the temple of the Lord. He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on His throne; So He shall be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.”’ Therefore, the apostle Matthew was correct, “And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, ‘He shall be called a Nazarean.’” He shall be called the Nazarean, which means He is the Branch, YAHSHUA the Nazarean!
Gen 1, 26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” Let US make...
@@owlNolanJesus said in Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’" "God" is usually used for the "Father" in this way if not further specified. Therefore the "Us" in Gen 1, 26 is the Father speaking to the Heavenly court in the tone and mode of concession. The Father created Man; but proclaimed it to all members of Heaven as clearly stated in Isaiah 46:10: that God declares the end from the beginning.
@@owlNolan Kneel to trace picture children. G is an incomplete whole with one square angle drawn in Earth. O is a whole measure. D is a split whole with two square angles drawn in Earth. Sacrificed, Holy measured. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Trinity drawn to the one measure, as the word GOD is three pictures, measured in thirds of its objective whole relation, US.
Having being exposed to "oneness" doctrine early in my adult Christian walk it has taken me years of unlearning what I was taught. Dr Heiser teachings have been so helpful to me.
I think oneness position is biblical. "GOD was manifest in the flesh", "in Him dwelleth the fullness of the Diety", & " God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself". No separate beings, Just GOD being GOD and revealing Himself as the Savior.
@@adrianespinoza8016ow do you explain then that Jesus is not the Father and the Father is not Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is not Jesus or Father and yet Father is God, Jesus is God, Spirit is God. They are one and not separate. How do you explain that in the light of “oneness” theology then?
@Ilmar Meldre... I know it's tough, cuz I come from solid trinitarian background too. Isaiah 9:6 is good....Not that Jesus the man was God, but as the scripture says " God was manifest in the flesh" , " God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself " and In Him (Jesus) dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead.
I have just had to give the Oneness family I have to God and ask that he sort it out. Both of our sides are entrenched in their positions. The anecdotal issues I have with Oneness beliefs is self-righteousness rooted in legalism. Requirements for an outward sign of an invisible spiritual transaction is problematic for me as well. Most proof texts come from Acts a historical record not a doctrinal book like Romans.
I get goosebumps thinking about how the Angel of God stopping Abraham from kiIIing Isaac was Jesus himself in his pre-incarnate form, knowing it's going to be him instead 🥺
@@truthbomb27 Genesis 16:7-13/Judges 13:17-20 This is GOD ALMIGHTY the ALL SEEING GOD EL ROI JESUS/YESHUA Jesus said that HE was in HEAVEn while speaking with Nicodemus on this immovable Earth. John 3 Praise the TRIUNE LORD ADONAI JESUS forever and ever.
All your teaching Dr Heiser brings so much healing. There is so much that I believed intuitively that you justify by solid Biblical knowledge. It helps a lot. Thank you.
Trinity in one verse of OT “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me.”” - Isaiah 48:16 NKJV
@@moshemyym4627 Hello. So, yes, the tri-unity of God is clearly spoken here by Isaiah. Read Isaiah 48:12-16 for a better context... 12“Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together. 14“All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The Lord loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. 15I, even I, have spoken; Yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper. 16“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit [c]Have sent Me.” ^^^ Study these 4 verses and ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. These are profound verses showing all 3 Persons of the Godhead.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I don't find it confusing at all to contemplate God as being multifaceted and working in this earthly realm in a manner of ways...God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, The Angel of God....He's indescribably powerful and awesome!
That is 4 gods not One & its false. What is awesome about that. Instead of understanding the love of a Father and Son people have turned God and Jesus into some weirdo alien demonic teaching that no one can comprehend at all. The entire point of sending Jesus was so that we could know God. People have utterly ruined the gospel.
THE WISE MAN BOUGHT A BIG BOOK FROM BARNES AND NOBLE, IT WAS A RATHER LARGE THICK BOOK, IT CONTAINED SOMEWHAT SMALL LETTERING,AN OLD SAGE TOLD HIM," LOOKING THRUGH THIS BOOK WILL MEAN ONE MUST EXHERT EFFORT AND TAKE THE TIME TO DISCOVER THE TRUTH HIDDEN WITHIN" ON THE FRONT WERE WORDS THAT READ" STRONGS BIBLE CONCORDANCE" FINALY, SAID THE WISE MAN HAPPILY , THIS BOOK NOT ONLY CONTAINS ANY AND EVERY SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE, BUT EVEN EVERY WORD FOUND IN EACH! AHH A PLACE WHERE I CAN FIND EVERYTHING ON THE "TRINITY" EVERY WORD IS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER AS WELL HE CHIMNED, THEN HE BEGAN HIS SEARCH HMMM... TRINITY TRINITY OH THERE! NOPE WHAT??? THE T"S END AT TROAS! TO HIS SHOCK , HE DISCOVERED THAT ,AT LEAST THIS TIME, "EVEN THE DEVILS KNOW THERE IS NO TRINITY, WHICH, STANDS TO REASON, "THE TRINITY" IS A DEVILS LIE! HE READ A SCRIPTURE THE OLD SAGE HAD TOLD HIM OF.. THOU BELIEVEST THERE IS ONE GOD, "THOU DOEST WELL" THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE AND TREMBLE JAMES 2;19 THE SCRIPTURE HE THEN REPEATED OUT LOUD FOR HOURS BEING STUNNED AND IN SHOCK WAS ACTS 2;38 BECAUSE UNDER BAPTIZM WAS EVERY BAPTIZM IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST EVER RECORDED! FINALY HE FOUND THE LIST ON THE WORD "SINNERS". AHA! THE SINNERS PRAYER WILL APPREAR AND I WILL BE VINDICATED, SINNER SINNETH WHAT ???? NO SINNERS PRAYER EITHER, UNDER "REMISSION " HE FOUND ACTS 2;38. HE MADE A BIBLICLY BASED DESCISION RIGHT THEN, TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND RECIEVE THE FREE GIFT OF GODS SPIRIT WITHIN HIMSELF, THE HOLY GHOST, AFTER FIRST REPENTING OF THE FALSE SINNERS PRAYER AND TRINITY OFCOURSE.
I think you hit the nail on the head. We are given some basics because we struggle with even that. The basics show us a clear picture of necessity of salvation through Christ. That salvation is possible because God and Christ are one. How that happens, how that's possible, how the Spirit comes into the picture seems to defy explanation. It takes me back to Paul TRYING to explain to us with - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12-2-4 Paul is desperately trying to explain something and then practically gives up. Trying to explain the workings of the heavenly for our earthly minds to grasp is near futile. We see through a dark glass and we Bible studiers should keep that in mind.
@@SeerSeekingTruth I'm impressed with your comment.... and percieve that you know Jesus and that He has set you free from false doctrine including to doctrine of the trinity. Praise God!
This is because Isaiah - being a prophet - understood what THE 'son of man' is; and is the reason why Jesus always referred in the 3rd person to... 'the' son of man. The 'son of man' is the 'spiritual gateway' or 'door' that is the 'access point' of a relationship with 'God'. Jesus asks, "will the son of man find faith when he returns?", and again as always, in a 3rd person context, and accurately so as Jesus was referring to the 'spirit' that must be obeyed (by faith) in order to 'hear' the commands of God. Notice in Ezekiel 2, where God says, 'son of man, STAND and I will speak with you.", and it is at this point that the spirit 'enters' Ezekiel and 'sets him on his feet'. This is also demonstrated in the verses that speak of the Armor of God... whereby possessing (through work, study, and knowledge) one can build their spiritual 'armor', that they would be able to 'stand'... or to say, 'not lose faith', because of tribulation amd testing.
Dr. Michael S. Heiser It is his theology that got me interested in the OT. I struggled to understand my place in Faith because I had many questions. Studying YHWH's interaction with humanity from a biblical, Hebrew, and Aramaic perspective gave me hope. He, along with other theologians, led me to seminary. Not because I wanted to be a preacher but to be exposed to the enormous body of knowledge about a God who chose to redeem His creation. Powerful stuff. May he rest until our LORD returns.
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the FATHER. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to MY GOD and your God'" - John 20:17 "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani"? which means MY GOD, my God, why have you forsaken me"? - Matthew 27:46 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the FATHER except through me" - John 14:6 Deviating from these scriptures is why other religions regard us as polytheists.
The problem is the oddity - While we have statements like "his Holy Spirit" often we have to draw a self made conclusion about three in one. It's not easy because Jesus states "God is spirit and those that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." So God the Father is already a spirit to begin with. Hebrews 12:9 calls God the Father of spirits so there is already that facet of his being that is already spirit, but it gets more odd. John 10:30 Jesus states "I and my father are one" why did he not mention the Holy spirit? Isiah 9:6 states For to us a child is born, to us a son is given... And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. So Christ has both the name of Son and Almighty God - why does the verse not read something like "a son is given and his name will be, Mighty God, Holy Spirit, Prince of Peace etc.? The only verse that specifically and verbally states that the three are one is 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. AND THESE THREE ARE ONE There's two issues with this - 1st a statement in black and white directly stating that three are one only happens once. Verses directly stating Christ is and God are one happens multiple times. 2nd 1 John 5:7 is iffy all on its own and is referred to as the Johannine Comma. "The comma is mainly only attested in the Latin manuscripts of the New Testament, being absent from almost all Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, the earliest Greek manuscript being 14th century." So we see the statement doesn't even appear till the 14th century. So here's where it gets very odd and very confusing. There is another odd statement. Revelation 4:5: ...there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. Revelation 3:1: ...These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God People quickly try to explain the seven spirits of God in a way that causes it to conform to their current beliefs. The problem with their teachings are that it's backward. Instead of the meaning dictating belief, instead a preconceived belief dictates the teaching. Here is my take away. God the Father is the Father of all and Christ is God in the flesh. When it comes to the Holy Spirit or the seven Spirits of God I simply teach what the Bible says and am unable to draw a definitive conclusion. So far I don't see the need to draw a definitive conclusion as it does not undermine the foundation of Scripture or God or Christ. From personal experience I found arrogance was a great hindrance to my study. I had this idea and notion that because I have the Bible I had all the knowledge of God at my fingertips. Because I had the Bible I believed it contained EVERYTHING there was to know and as result I narrowed all my conclusions to the Scriptures in front of me. Revelation proves we don't know all there is to know when the thunders uttered their voices and the angel told John "Do NOT write that down." We do not know what the thunders stated, that knowledge has been concealed and we can thereby conclude from Scripture that the Bible does not tell us all there is to know. Let's be humble and kind As a side note it's both saddening and spiritually disappointing to see just how rapidly believers in the comments respond to each other with animosity and aggression when some teaching doesn't immediately align with their specific belief set. Many need to step back and realize that various "Bible fact perspectives" are Bible with a heavy dose of denominational bias. Let God be true and every man a liar. Just because you believe your denominational leaders doesn't make them right or all knowing.
Steven Bancarz: Let's let the Word of God prevail: Isaiah 6, verses 1-7: 1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. 5 ¶ Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. 6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. Verse 1: Isaiah saw the Lord God sitting on His throne. *Problem* *#1* for y'all: The Lord God is embodied as only embodied beings *sit.* Verse 2: Two Seraphs, special Angelic Sons/Servants are before the Lord God. Verse 3: One of the Two Seraphs bears witness of the Lord God's holiness. This Seraph is the Holy Ghost. Verses 4-7: The other Seraph forgives sins *and* calls prophets *and* sends them forth to preach. This is Premortal Jesus. Isaiah saw *ALL* *THREE* *SEPARATE* *BEINGS* just as Moses had and much like Matthew recorded. That scream and stampede for the exit is Mickey Heiser and all his once-giddy blindlings trying to cram their way out of the arena. BTW: The only Church that accords 100% with Isaiah and all the other Biblical-era Prophets is The Church of *Jesus* *Christ* of Latter-day Saints.
Micah 5:2 Bethlehem Ephrathah although you are little out of you shall come One who will be King of Israel, whose going forth is from of old from everlasting. This clearly talks of Jesus from being with God from eternity. You’re right, the deity of Jesus isn’t conjured it’s all over Old Testament. Zechariah 13:7 Awake O sword against My Shepherd m, against the Man who is My Companion...
@@davidjanbaz7728 First of all, you did not apologize for saying that I don't have the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God. There is no eternal God Son! That is a fabrication thanks to trinitarians.
@@approvedofGod yeah it’s referring to the one God, who is a plurality of persons. Then keep reading to verse 4, it says the ruler will come in the name of Jehovah his God. The Bible teaches a plurality in the One God, if you let the scriptures speak for itself and not twist it
Thanks Mike. I love these profound snippets of earlier teachings. If anyone is like me...forgetful...then they will also appreciate these beautiful nuggets of truth to help us remember to remember. All I can say is; "More!"
@SmallFridgeMinority I'm not sure what "umbilical" is... But it looks like your hands were faster than your head. 😆😆 Saying it and proving it are different things. All you've done is say it. That's great. Even I can say the opposite.
@@carvellboyce6434 God didn't spell out many things in Scripture. As Peter adequately put it, "some things are hard to understand. Also, please turn off the caps lock. Thank you.
I don't understand. So if God manifested as a angel shouldn't the Godhead be a quadrilateral being. Or when he manifested as the burning bush,... what about a Pentagon? God is everywhere and can manifest himself anywhere. What I find VERY strange is that the revelation of a triune God need to be so convoluted and complicated. Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff. I can't believe the trinity because at the moment I need to take church word for it. I can pay lip service to the idea but then I am lying to myself and to everyone else. Much like most Christians do.
As a Christian of Jewish origin I can tell you that the doctrine of the trinity does not come from the Bible as is also clearly evident from the fact that some polytheistic peoples worshiped triunities. In Egypt, for example, they worshiped a triunity made up of three false gods called Ptah-Sokar-Osiris and the thing to note is that the idol that represented it was one, as can still be seen today in certain museums, therefore the so-called concept of three in one it does not come from the God of Israel. The Lord Jesus Christ is the God of Israel the Eternal Father and this is also clear if you compare John 2:19-21 and Galatians 1:1.
It is a man-made doctrine that was developed over a long time, starting in the years after Jesus and the apostles had left. The Christians in the first years believed in the 1 Lord God of Israel, YHVH. Just as Jesus and the apostles did. Jesus told us that his God and Father is the only true God. And the apostles believed in the same 1 Lord God. As do I.
@Thoska Brah Anyone that does not stand fully and firmly with the Word is not someone that I believe just because they make some claims. Christians are supposed to believe in Jesus and receive what he said and embrace that and stand with that. No ? So how can you claim to be Christian if you disregard what Jesus said ? "For You granted him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all those You have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." (John 17:2-3) Jesus said as he looked Up to his God and Father. ....surely Jesus knows better than you ? But that is not the case with so many, they think they know better than Jesus, and disregard what he said. And doing so without even hesitation. It is amazing to see it. And yet they call themselves Christian.
@@radman6047 "I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in me, and I am in You. May they also be in us, so that the world may believe that You sent me." (John 17:20-21) the man Jesus said. ....so, because the true Christians are made one with God as Jesus was/is, we are also God ? You do not know what you are talking about. You have just been given talking-points, and those you regurgitate without having searched the truth out for yourself. Just as most claiming to be Christian do. "Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know me? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on my own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in me, doing His work." (John 14:9-10) ....so there they could see God(Father) living and working in the man Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus is not the Father(God). God is spirit(John 4:24) And the only way they could see the Spirit was as He revealed Himself in the man Jesus. ...the Spirit gave him utterance and deeds to do. And in that exact same manner does the Spirit operate in all His children (Romans 8:14) ...just because He lives and operates in and through them, does not make them God, but a tool for God, a servant of the Spirit. So it was with the man Jesus likewise. He could do nothing of himself he said (John 5:30) As I said, you have no knowledge about what you are speaking. You are just regurgitating what you have been taught. And you do not even realize what you are doing. ....and most claiming to be Christian are just like you.
@@bosse641 In who's name did the disciples heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out demons? In God the Father's name? In the name of the Holy Ghost? No, in Jesus name only. Did they command the demons to come out in any other name than Jesus? No. Read Daniel 7:13-14. Who receives dominion and glory and an eternal kingdom from the Ancient of Days? In John 14:9 Jesus clearly says if you've seen Me you've seen the Father. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. John 10:30, I and My Father are One.
So Michael Heiser , You are suggesting that Every Jew who ever learned the Old Testament is Profoundly Ignorant of the Old Testament . You may not actually think that , but that's what it sounds like . Psalm 118:14 . yāh wayhî lî lîšūāh.(Yah has become MY YESHUA) If Yahweh becomes Yeshua in the flesh There are not two Yahweh's , He is always ONE . It isn't 1+1=2 , it's 1x1=1 ( If you want to concede that the sevens spirits in Revelation Of Yeshua are then also added to a trinity then you have 10 spirits in your Godhead rather than 3. But again it isn't 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=10 spirits .It is 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1=1..The Elohim are not separate Spirits , They are Characteristic Powers of YHWH . And Yeshua is a Physical Manifestation of Yahweh . Since Yahweh is Not a Man when not in a Meat suit , He is also not a Person except when expressed as a Man . Seeing that John 1:10 states that Yeshua Created the Universe , and Genesis 1 show that Elohim Created the Universe ,Yeshua is ELOHIM and in Genesis chapter two Yeshua is YAHWEH ELOHIM . numbers 23:19 Elohim(Powers) is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.(Mind being His SOUL which is YAHWEH...The" I" in I AM , is his SOUL or His Consciousness ) John 4:24 πνεῦμα ὁ θεός (Pneuma ha Theos) Elohim(Powers) is Spirit Deuteronomy 6:4 šəma yiśrāêl; Yahweh ĕlōhênū Yahweh eḥāḏ (Hear Israel ,Yahweh our Power ,Yahweh is One) Yahweh and Yeshua are the same Person , Seeing that whatever he puts his name in IS HIM . Yahweh can be in Multiple places at once , He can simulateously be in Shamayim and erets and simultaneously be Human and spirit and there are not Two Yahwehs , if that were so that would be Blasphemy .To suggest that Yahweh in Shamayim is of a Physical form is suggesting That he is Limited Dimensionally ,When he is Infinite . He is only limited That way when in Physical form .In a Body He is Vulnerable just as we are and can even be restrained to give a Blessing , or be crucified . You are just missing something , even as intelligent as you are .I watch you speak and I can tell when you are absolutely correct and I can also see when You are confounded by something and so you settle for what seems logical when You haven't really resolved it in your mind . Even an ELectron can Be in Two Places at The same Time and still be a single ELectron .
@@P.H.888 Millions of Jews would disagree in reference to Yahweh . No point in Trying to convince me .I believe you are wrong , and trying to defend The Trinity . :) If you say The Trinity is 3 persons who are unique and separate from each other yet are 1 God ,then you must define what you mean by a Person . A "PERSON" is an entity with self awareness and has a soul / spirit , so if there are three persons in the Trinity then they are three separate SOULS/Spirits ..and in that case a Trinity is no different than the Hindu Godhead , and if you pray to each different "PERSON" That is Blasphemy , Especially if you have been made aware that this is what you are doing .
How can there be a trinity if Yeshua says the Father is greater? Doesn't Yeshua ask why call Him good, that only Yah is good. Shouldn't they be equal in a trinity? The pagans always have a trinity...why doesn't the New Testament teach the trinity?
The theologians that wrote the Catholic Encyclopedia admit that there is no Old Testament indication of a triune God, and very little in the New Testament that can be construed that way. They also admit that it was a product of tradition that evolved over four centuries. The RCC gives equal credence to tradition and scripture. In this case tradition is almost the whole criteria for this dogma, aside from a few scriptures that are wrenched out of context and misinterpreted, trying to give the idea legitimacy.
If you read the beginning of that, it's talking about the Lord and the Israelites rebelling against the Lord's Holy Spirit. Still The Holy Spirit chief.
Being ignorant of the Hebrew or Greek and making arguments from the English language translation is a poor argument. Try getting an Theological education first which you don't seem to have. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit and you can blasphemy the Holy Spirit ( a Spiritual person in the Trinity) but Jesus said you could speak against him and its different. So they are not the same. The Holy Spirit is a He not you're cousin it.
@@wildbeast7375 What rancor, man, you Trinitarians are vicious. What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
I'm sorry but this is entirely circular reasoning. You can't use implicit texts to try and establish an explicit. You first need an explicit as a basis to project into an implicit, otherwise you just have a baseless projection. There are no explicit references to the concept of the trinity. The only way anyone comes to that conclusion is if they start with that conclusion and pre-project it into the texts being discussed.
@@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe don't say stupid things 🤦🏼♂️ you don't know me. My conclusion is open mindedness, always. I'm up to being proved wrong, but i need a little thing called evidence. Yanno like Hebrews 11:1? One of the foundations of "faith". A truly objective approach asks "what does this information teach me about subject X". Me simply pointing out a major flaw in a commonly believed doctrine isn't circular. You wouldn't know circular if it came around and hit you on the back of your head. What you're doing is called "deflecting".
@@wjhssjhhrfmj I have a great deal of love and respect for Michael, but if we apply his reasoning every other time these types of things occur in scripture then we have plurality in humans as well. For example, compare the identical accounts of Matthew 8:5-13 with Luke 7:1-10. In Matthews account, it appears that the Gentile army officer approached Jesus directly and communicated with him, but if you read Lukes account, he sends the Jews and some of his friends to speak for him. If we apply the same logic and reasoning that Michael applies in those old testament accounts to this account, then we have the army officer, older men of the Jews, and his friends all being the same as a dual-head type thing. This is preposterous. What these two versions of the same account teach us is that in the ancient world, sometimes people communicated and acted *by means of* other people. So in the Old Testament it's perfectly acceptable for God to Act and Communicate *by means of* The Angel Of Yehovah, while at the same time the Angel can be referred to as God, even tho God himself wasn't directly there, the same as Matthews account refers to the the Jewish older men and the gentile army officers friends as being the army officer, since they were acting on his behalf. That's just how they did things in the ancient world. Michaels argument simply doesn't stand up under scrutiny. If God almighty were in fact going against the norm, something vastly different, then he would make it explicit. "I know you guys are used to this type of thing, but not so with me, my existence is like this, there's 3 of us"... Etc, simply laying the concept out, establishing the concept. He's had a 66 book saga written for mankind, you would expect a single verse somewhere like "Yehovah is God Almighty, Yeshua is God Almighty, The Holy Spirit is God Almighty, These three are One God, Yet Three Persons". There is no description anywhere of three in one, or even two in one. God had the means and opportunity to easily and clearly communicate this if it really were part of his nature. But he doesn't. So i cannot accept it as anything more than a tradition of man.
@@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe Wow, the very way you are judging is the way you are judged. Let's examine this: What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
1 John 5:7 reads: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one... . .looks like the definition of the Trinity... And it's good enough for me.
Hey Dr Heiser, I try to make it simple in my mind by the holy Spirit being God's literal breath / wind since that appears to be the interpretation of what spirit is. Like when God spoke the world into existence. You can't speak without breath or wind. Or when God breathed into the church in the day of Pentecost like a rushing mighty "wind" Or when God breathed into Adam giving him life. It appears that when God speaks his breath / wind is the holy Spirit. Do you think this analogy is correct ? Thanks for all the awesome videos I appreciate it God bless.
No, its probably not correct. First of all, just because a word has different meanings, it does not mean the meanings are interchangeable. Secondly, God is immaterial, and he has no literal breath unless he wanted to create a breathe such as the breathe of Jesus incarnated. But that breath could not be the Spirit because the Bible says the Spirit is eternal (Heb 9:14) Thirdly, the Hebrew and Greek words for spirit (ruach and pneuma) could also mean breath, yes, but they are not interchangeable. Altgough the Jews used the words ruach and pneuma, they didnt think of wind and spirit as interchangeable concepts. The Jews also believed in immaterial spirits ie demons (evil spirits) as well as the Holy Spirit, however they would never describe them as wind. I dont recall the gentiles thinking of spirits as literal wind either. Their is no reason to think the authors of the Bible, knowing they had those audiences, would use the words interchangeably either.
@@ea-tr1jh well that's not what the Bible says though. It said God breathed into Adam. Also the day of Pentecost God breathed into the church like a rushing mighty wind.. God also spoke things into existence. There's so many passages of speaking and breathing so I don't understand what you mean by God does not breathe..
@@justinsmitley7619 Its cant be literal though. God is immaterial. To suggest otherwise is to muddle what the Bible says. If God is spirit, and spirit meant wind, then the Bible says God is wind. I guess all those demons are also wind. To suggest that the author meant demons and God are wind is absurd and to rip out of context the author's words.
I mean, without Dr. Heiser's scholarly insistence that the Angel of YHWH, in the Old Testament, is Jesus---I too would be "profoundly ignorant" of this (critically important) aspect of the OT---just as ignorant as are the "Jesus mythers."
Because many shepherds have led their flocks to the slaughter. They have not been good watchmen... And do not know the scriptures though they search them day after day.
@@Thewatchman303 Ok, JJ. But only because you say so, and only because you say so without any corroborating evidence to support your assertion. Assertions >>> scholarship. Life is actually VERY EASY.
@@seankennedy4284 buddy, I appreciate you do not know me so I understand your point. However, Please be rest assured that I am in the process of writing a full scriptural and I believe irrefutable rebuttal. I was just so outraged by his deception I had to speak out.
I used to believe that the Doctrine of the Trinity came from the Old Testament. But it DOESN'T. Yes, a plural God comes from the Old Testament. But there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the Old Testament that can be unequivocally identified as the "Father." Genesis starts off telling us that God is somehow plural -- the first sentence tells us that. Genesis talks about God (plural), the Spirit of God (i.e., the Holy Spirit), and the Lord God (which John would later identify as the Word). But that's all. No third person of the Trinity appears in the Old Testament.
I really appreciate some of what Dr. Heiser taught (may he rest in peace) but he seemed to have a blind spot concerning the trinity. He discredited himself by equating "I am" ego eimi with the Yahweh of the OT. The man born blind uses the same phrase in John 9:9.
Thanks for this teaching. The previous verse, Isiah 63:9 gets my attention to study as well. It uses the expression "the angel of his presence." To me this feels like another expression of "the Angel of the Lord." The angel of the Lord allowed people to worship Him whereas other angels would say don't worship me, I am not the Lord.
@@marceloribeirosimoes8959 The Angel of YHWH, Who is YHWH HIMSELF was in some material form, but before around 2000 years the WORD became flesh. ADONAI is always existing as Tri-Unity : Father and Word and Spirit. In Genesis 18 the LORD Himself with 2 angels |2 angelic beings| eat meal with Abraham, this is Physical appearance of God. Lord Jesus bless His elect followers.🕊
@@vijdamvsichko9077 Hi, I hope you're doing marvelously well! I am not here trying to make you change your mind about this subject but, I must say somethings. You've said: *"In Genesis 18 the LORD Himself with 2 angels |2 angelic beings| eat a meal with Abraham, this is the Physical appearance of God. "* Like I've said, you can only "see" a "trinity" in that passage because you've heard about a "trinity" BEFORE you are aware of that. Did you notice that Abraham called "LORD" only ONE of those three men? It seems you don't. And you ignore it just because the tradition inside of your soul is really deep. That's what I call "lens". See? More, did you ever notice that none of them made any miracles? Two of them were almost raped and killed. But, for this matter, Abraham recognized only ONE as his GOD. He calls only ONE of them "LORD". So now, let's use our "believers' " mind for this and ask ourselves: "My GOD can only express Himself in a limited number of men, women, fishes, crows, crickets, stars, etc.?" Do you believe that your God has limits about the number of perceivable expressions HE is operating at the same time? "Is anything too hard or too wonderful for the Lord?..." (Gen 18:14a) Having this in mind, how many men did Simon Bajonah (we've learned to call him "Peter") and Yohannan (John) see when YESHUA showed them WHO HE IS (Mat 17:1-3) ???? Do you still believe that The Creator was showing us a "trinity"? Do you remember when The Creator appeared to Moses? Moses saw The Creator BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER. A perfect hebrew way of thinking. Do you understand what "eternity" means? This means that there's no before or after. No tomorrow or yesterday. So, The Creator made our dimension (TIME/SPACE/MATTER) plainly, working perfecly, the good and the evil, etc. The Creator is NOT part of it nor is subject to anything around us. If The Creator is a "three-person" god, why we can read those that were JEWS, and SAW and TALKED to HIM in the flesh, mentioning only TWO of those three many many times? That's simple. The Bible talks about the history of The Creator's salvific works, step by step. And that's WHY we can't read about "Jesus" (literally) before His birth. We can only read those that "then" knew that The Creator came as He said He would, and they call Him by the name they knew "YESHUA" to make us understand it - He is NOT another one, or a second person from a triune-god (like many triads from paganism); Yeshua is The invisible Creator here among us!!! That's the objective, that's the main goal. The Creator did not outsource his saving work!!! HE says, "Who has prepared and done this, calling forth and guiding the destinies of the generations [of the nations] from the beginning? I, the Lord-the first [existing before history began] and with the last [an ever-present, unchanging God]-I am He." (Is 41:4) The same! HE is "HE" (that one)! The same message when HE was here, trying to make people recognize Him. See? Well, I hope you start to read your Bible trying not to presume what it says... "So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead." (Ef 4:14) Any coincidence between these texts and the religious people, including those who invented a triune god to embrace as many pagans as they could?
One of my issues with Trinitarians is the fact that "Trinity" is not in the bible. So why do we even use this word. We should only say what's in the Bible right?
Why does one have to read into the Hebrew scriptures the doctrine of the Trinity in vague passages? If the the Trinity is true - and that would make it the most important doctrine in scripture - why isn't there a single passage in the entire Hebrew scriptures that EXPLICITLY attests the doctrine of the Trinity?
@@faithnreason446 the Jewish interpretation is that this is Isaiah speaking, by the way it doesn't say he was sent by the spirit of God, it says, "The LORD sent me and his spirit." It's vague because you will only argue that it implies the Trinity. It is not an explicit declaration of the Trinity. That is my point! I repeat, there isn't a single passage in the entire Hebrew scriptures that EXPLICITLY declares the Trinity. On the contrary, there are numerous passages in the Hebrew scriptures that attests to the monotheism of God, such as Deuteronomy 6:4 that says that God is one, not three in one.
What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20 YOu know the Father and SOn, but Clearly the person you dont know or understand is the Holy Spirit. Jesus said he would send the helper. The clear process you know your being saved is if you hearing from God. The Holy Spirit will not speak to you, if you dont have a repentant heart. Do you understand what it means to pick up your cross daily and make Jesus you're lord and savior? As a Warning God tells us what he wants, even when you want to do the opposite. If you continue you ignore God, he will not speak to you. In your spirit, you are compelled to want to follow God. The Bible was written by Men filled with the Holy Spirit. You should only interpret the lens of the Bible, through the Holy Spirit. God's will is perfect, if i can list the cons from a theology, its most likely not true. Sinning against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable. This clearly states he is God! Stop twisting the Scriptures to fit your narrative, you're messing with God. When it comes to learning about the BIble i only listen to teachers who are filled with the Holy Spirit.
Listen how they explain things in circles just to prove their belief. Interpreting verses on their own. Do they still hear Jesus? Jesus said: And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God. John 17:1,3. There are many requirements to go to heaven and have eternal life. One of those is to believe that The Father is the only true God. That is from Jesus. What do the apostles say after Jesus taught them that? 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God And Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Well, my God is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. Even Jesus said it himself. John 20:17. Those who dont listen to Jesus, they will never know the truth. All of their trinity doctrines will be forever in parables.
@@michi-bi Why judge me? You do not know me. If I speak the truth of God's word, believe me, but if I do not, then witness to me from God's word of truth. What I have written is true, if not tell me why not.
@@michi-bi “But even if you should suffer for righteousness sake, you are blessed. And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed” (1 Peter 3:14-16). How does one defend something that God never revealed to be true, and only exists as a (Trinitarian) doctrine because men gathered in two Councils (the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE & the Council of Chalcedon in 381 CE) with the audacity of defining God? Theologians admit that the Trinity is “beyond the grasp of human reason” (THE ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA, Vol. 27, “The Trinity,” 1980). “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament…The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies… It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single Orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons” (see “Trinity”, THE NEW ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA, Vol. 11, p. 928, 1985 ed.). In other words, the God of the Bible has never been revealed to be a Triune God, a Trinity. Christianity had no concept of God being a Trinity until the 4th century when bickering men defined God. Apostolic “Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds” of the 4th-century church (see “God”, THE NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Vol. 2, p. 84). If one must believe in the Trinity doctrine to be saved, what of the early Christians who knew nothing of the doctrine of the Trinity up to the 4th century CE? Historian writer H.G. Wells, stated: “There is no evidence that the apostles of Christ ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from him” (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther, of the Protestant Reformation, in a documented sermon preached, “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man” (THE SERMONS OF MARTIN LUTHER, Vol. 3, p. 406). Scriptural pillars of the Trinity are Matthew 28:19, and 1 John 5:7, and these verses are considered by scholars to be interpolations, that were added later to the Bible. Scholars such as F. C. Conybeare have claimed that the Trinitarian baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 was not original to the text of Matthew, and therefore is, in fact, an interpolation. Christ never said, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit…” (Matthew 28:19). In other words, was the phrase in the text "In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" inserted at a later date (say, for example, after the Council of Chalcedon in AD 381)? The correct reading of Matthew 28:19 appears to be in the Gospel of Luke, “Then He said to them, ‘Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem’” (Luke 24:46-47). According to the church historian, Eusebius, he quotes Christ saying in Matthew 28:19, in his book: “Go and make disciples of all the nations in My name” (Eusebius, THE HISTORY of the CHURCH, p. 68, Penguin Classics, 1965). This explains why the disciples of Christ never baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Proving that Christ’s quote in Matthew 28:19 is not original. The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19, as it presently stands is in direct contradiction with all of these passages: [Acts 2:38 NASB] “Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” [Acts 8:12 NASB] “But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.” [Acts 10:48 NASB] “And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.” [Romans 6:3 NASB] “Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?” [1 Corinthians 1:13 NASB] “Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” [Galatians 3:27 NASB] “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” The original Matthew 28:19, “Go and make disciples of all nations in My name,” conforms. The conspiracy to change the words of Christ in Matthew 28:19 to bolster the Trinity doctrine also included the Didache (7:1), and all church writers previous to the 4th century. Despite the Orthodox/Roman Catholic thoroughness to conform all writings of the early church, they overlooked Eusebius’ History of the Church, and the conspiracy continues to this day! Followers of Christ are to make disciples in His name, as He commanded, “...that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations…” What is the revealed name of the Savior? Does it matter? The apostle Peter testified, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Historian Ernest Renan makes it clear that the Savior was never in His lifetime known as Jesus (Ernest Renan, The Life of Jesus, p. 90).
@@myghtxx5600 “But even if you should suffer for righteousness sake, you are blessed. And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed” (1 Peter 3:14-16). How does one defend something that God never revealed to be true, and only exists as a (Trinitarian) doctrine because men gathered in two Councils (the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE & the Council of Chalcedon in 381 CE) with the audacity of defining God? Theologians admit that the Trinity is “beyond the grasp of human reason” (THE ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA, Vol. 27, “The Trinity,” 1980). “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament…The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies… It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single Orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons” (see “Trinity”, THE NEW ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA, Vol. 11, p. 928, 1985 ed.). In other words, the God of the Bible has never been revealed to be a Triune God, a Trinity. Christianity had no concept of God being a Trinity until the 4th century when bickering men defined God. Apostolic “Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds” of the 4th-century church (see “God”, THE NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Vol. 2, p. 84). If one must believe in the Trinity doctrine to be saved, what of the early Christians who knew nothing of the doctrine of the Trinity up to the 4th century CE? Historian writer H.G. Wells, stated: “There is no evidence that the apostles of Christ ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from him” (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther, of the Protestant Reformation, in a documented sermon preached, “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man” (THE SERMONS OF MARTIN LUTHER, Vol. 3, p. 406). Scriptural pillars of the Trinity are Matthew 28:19, and 1 John 5:7, and these verses are considered by scholars to be interpolations, that were added later to the Bible. Scholars such as F. C. Conybeare have claimed that the Trinitarian baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 was not original to the text of Matthew, and therefore is, in fact, an interpolation. Christ never said, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit…” (Matthew 28:19). In other words, was the phrase in the text "In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" inserted at a later date (say, for example, after the Council of Chalcedon in AD 381)? The correct reading of Matthew 28:19 appears to be in the Gospel of Luke, “Then He said to them, ‘Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem’” (Luke 24:46-47). According to the church historian, Eusebius, he quotes Christ saying in Matthew 28:19, in his book: “Go and make disciples of all the nations in My name” (Eusebius, THE HISTORY of the CHURCH, p. 68, Penguin Classics, 1965). This explains why the disciples of Christ never baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Proving that Christ’s quote in Matthew 28:19 is not original. The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19, as it presently stands is in direct contradiction with all of these passages: [Acts 2:38 NASB] “Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” [Acts 8:12 NASB] “But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.” [Acts 10:48 NASB] “And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.” [Romans 6:3 NASB] “Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?” [1 Corinthians 1:13 NASB] “Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” [Galatians 3:27 NASB] “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” The original Matthew 28:19, “Go and make disciples of all nations in My name,” conforms. The conspiracy to change the words of Christ in Matthew 28:19 to bolster the Trinity doctrine also included the Didache (7:1), and all church writers previous to the 4th century. Despite the Orthodox/Roman Catholic thoroughness to conform all writings of the early church, they overlooked Eusebius’ History of the Church, and the conspiracy continues to this day! Followers of Christ are to make disciples in His name, as He commanded, “...that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations…” What is the revealed name of the Savior? Does it matter? The apostle Peter testified, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Historian Ernest Renan makes it clear that the Savior was never in His lifetime known as Jesus (Ernest Renan, The Life of Jesus, p. 90).
I didn't need his books to understand Michael is correct. I've been studying the OT for years. It was then I realized that the NT is an extension of the OT. Most of what is written in the NT comes from the OT or is fulfillment of OT prophecy. There are 3 aspects of God, in one God --- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are people who simply can't wrap their minds around it. One of the most common questions is, if Jesus is God, then how or why would he be praying to himself in Gethsemane? Answer, he is also the Son in the flesh. We are talking about an omnipresent God who is everywhere at the same time.
@@kimberlyboldt5213 God is everywhere? Is God in hell too? If god is e eryqhwre, then you have limited God, or gave him a shape or a description, God becomes a machine, God becomes jesus . This is why the trinity is a herecy a blasphemy. In your guts and everyone guts God is unlike anything else you can possibly imagine, you say sometimes that God is in heaven, hes not I heaven we say that because we dont know better to say. Fix your belief and you should be ok.
@@tryemc3026 That is an uneducated response. Your own words betray you. You have not read, studied or understood the scriptures in any way shape or form. How do you expect to have intelligent discussion when you haven't even studied the subject matter? Furthermore, you are ignorant in the sciences, and how God operates in the universe. I've spent 30 years in the subject matter. If you want to argue scripture, you are welcome to debate me.
This is historically inaccurate. The doctrine of the Trinity does not come from reflection on such OT texts as Dr Heiser mentions in this video. Where does Athanasius or Gregory of Nazianzus- or any of the other scholars who constructed the Trinity- refer such OT verses? The doctrine of the Trinty emerges out of reflection on soteriology: Christ has saved us by uniting us with God. But this means that Christ cannot be a mere intermediate between God and man since only God can unite us with himself. Therefore, Christ must be God, otherwise we are not “saved” by being united with God since no finite being could join us to the infinite. So, from a historical point of view, how do you prove your thesis?
Actually, the fathers got the Trinity from biblical texts. The reasoning goes like this: “…believe the works”. If I do the works of God, then I am God. All the fathers took Jesus at his word.
@@brenthorne8784 This is simplistic (in the extreme). Most of the Church Fathers _before_ Athanasius and the Cappadocians were subordinationists, such that they held that Jesus is "god' but not "the God" (in Greek there is a difference between theos and ho theos, i.e., God with or without the definite article: the first is 'divine' but not God in the absolute sense of the term). And, moreover, the NT texts are much more complex than you're suggesting.
@@bayreuth79 No. It’s what they actually did. There was never a suborinationist trend among the orthodox. Ever. Jesus is God. The Spirit is God. That’s what the scriptures say and that’s what Christians believe. www.ctsfw.net/media/pdfs/BeckwithTrinityandtheBible.pdf
@@brenthorne8784 I am afraid that you are mistaken. Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, Hippolytus, Justin Martyr and Novatian were all subordinationist. You can ask any serious professor of theology who accepts the doctrine of the trinity and they will affirm what I just said. Athanasius and the Cappadocians in the 4th century were seen as innovators; and in a sense they were innovators. The logic of the Cappadocians was this: if Jesus is not fully God (as the Father is fully God) then he cannot unite us to God: only God can united us to God, therefore Jesus, who unites us to God, must be fully God. Doctrine develops over time. I suggest that you find some well respected Trinitarian theologians and ask them for yourself. No one with an MA or a PhD in Theology will be ignorant of what I wrote above.
@@bayreuth79 No sir. You’re getting your terms confused. Re-read your remarks above on John. You’re making the JW argument. That’s Arian. You don’t need the definite article with the proper noun. That doesn’t mean that there is an indefinite article implied. Jesus is fully God. Always was. Always is. That’s always been the orthodox position and anything less than that is heterodox. By the way, I have an MDiv. You can’t allude to complexities in the scriptures. Christ’s deity is pretty clear. The argument that I mentioned above was fundamental to the father’s understanding
The Trinity wasn't invented by the RCC. It was part of pagan worship. So much so that God had warned the Israelites against borrowing it from the nations around. Deuteronomy 6:4. Constantine who oversaw the Nicean Council was a pagan. He got this Trinity concept 'Chritianized'. Similar being Christmas. Paul had forewarned about twisted teachings coming in with a Christian label. Acts 20:30.
The Trinity doctrine was adopted at the Nicaea Council as the official doctrine of the state-supported Catholic Church, it went through some modifications so we have that doctrinal lie now to deal with. The apologists argue that God is one, but the average person sees it as a God of 3 persons, which is a lie. The apologists only give lip service to the idea of one God. I am a candidate to be burned at the stake as a heretic by the Roman Catholic Church.
@@Jus4kiks The Son represents the Body of God Almighty. He is the firstborn of the dead. All the first and second resurrections are Joined to that Body through Christ Jesus. If we have been born of the Spirit according to Acts 2:38 we are part of the body of Jesus Christ. See Acts chapters 8, 10, and 19.
@Jooha We The Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in the burning bush, and to Abraham when he was to sacrifice Isaac yet calls himself God to both Abraham and Moses This isn't Mormon or Jehovah's Witnesses rhetoric
@Jooha We Angel means messenger. So the "Angel" if he is worshipped if regarded as being divine as the Angel of the Lord is. Check out the videos I sent to you
Yahuah (H3068) is Yahusha (H3091). Yahusha told Philip, "Have I been with you so long Philip, and you have not recognized Me? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you ask, 'show us the Father?'" Philippians 2 also confirms Yahuah is Yahusha, to the esteem of the Father. Constantine at Nicaea in 325 adopted the trinity concept by-way-of the philosophy of pagans (Athanasius of Alexandria).
In Apologetics we use this rule: The principle of the harmony of Scripture (or, Scripture interprets Scripture): “no part of Scripture can be interpreted in such a way as to render it in conflict with what is clearly taught elsewhere in Scripture” (RC Sproul). I agree with this Christian even though Christianity does NOT follow its own acceptance of this rule. Therefore when you say "John saw that the ONE WHO SPOKE TO HIM WAS THE "SON OF MAN" - Rev 1:12,13" Then it means you can differentiate between the Son of man and the Almighty? Correct? And how are they different? Can the son of man be the Almighty? If we have to stick to the rule of harmony then he cannot be the Almighty Eloheem since it would contradict what Yahuah has said Of HIMSELF at least 89 times ALREADY BEFORE including this verse concerning the "Son of Man". Do you want to make him a liar and the son of man a liar too to make your false Catholic doctrine fit? It is fitting that Yahuah says HE DOES NOT LIE in case we forgot. "Numbers 23:19 Eloheem is not a man, that he should lie; neither the *son of man, that he should repent...
The Scriptures Refute "Jesus is God" by Declaring Yah'ushua (pw Jesus) as the "Son of Man" According to Matthew 1:1, Yah'ushua (pw Jesus) is the SON OF ELOHIM, the SON OF DAVID, SON OF ABRAHAM. He is a man, but most importantly he is the SON OF MAN. Every time this term is mentioned referring to Yah'ushua we remember that Elohim (pw God) has already categorically stated that the Son of Man is NOT Elohim according to Numbers 23:19 as above. In the (REC) Renewed Everlasting Covenant (pw New Testament) it is said 89 times! Mat 8:20 (KJV) And Yah'ushua (pw Jesus) saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. Mat 9:6 (KJV) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. Mat 11:19 (KJV) The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. Mat 12:8 (KJV) For the Son of man is Master (pw Lord) even of the sabbath day. Mat 12:32 (KJV) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Mat 12:40 (KJV) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Mat 13:37 (KJV) He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:41 (KJV) The Son of man shall send forth his malakhim (pw angels) , and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;................." etc., etc., see my book as I cannot fit all the 89 verses (Mat Mark Luke Acts and Rev) in here From my free book on my website "Why Jesus is not God / Why Yahushua is not Eloheem"
There is a progression going on here, especially in the book of John, where Jesus is building up to the fact that He is the Father, come in flesh. In John 14:26, He says the same thing He says in 15:26, only He says the FATHER will send the Spirit _in my name_ so, putting those two verses side by side, you can see that He is in fact the Father. Jesus makes virtually all of the most significant statements from both points of view, as Father & as Son. For instance, in John 14 He says _no one comes to the FATHER except through ME. Previously, in chapter 6, He said _no one can come to ME unless the Father draws him._ The Lord knew there would be evil men & institutions promoting the Trinity so He spoke the scriptures in such a way that these liars would twist them, by the arrogance of the accuser, rather than attempting to destroy them. Now, all these thousands of years later, He has a collection of saints who have believed the Truth because they seek HIM - not religious doctrines of men & devils, like the Trinity.
Can anyone tell me where I can find the full version of this? I've just discoverd Dr. Heiser from listening to Ryan Pitterson. I'm really enjoying this!
The Holy Spirit was not officially added to the Trinity by the Roman bishops until the First Council of Constantinople in 381. Quite late. And yes, the Holy Spirit is personified in the Old Testament... But so is God's Wisdom. The "Wisdom of God" is personified as a female figure, often referred to as "Lady Wisdom," primarily in the book of Proverbs and a few other wisdom literature books of the Old Testament. (See Proverbs 8:1-36, for example. God's Wisdom is referred to again and again as a female personage, "she." Certainly, she is not part of the "Godhead.") This personification does not mean that the Wisdom of God is a literal separate person. The Wisdom and Spirit both come from God the Father. Everything comes from God the Father. He is timeless. He is the beginning of all things.
Its completely False to claim that either in the OT or the NT it somehow 'teaches the trinity'! I offer this poster, £1000 if he can show me just ONE bible verse that states, not necessarily the 'trinity' but "There are three persons in one God" OR "God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit". Please dont quote a bible verse with 'three' in it as there are more that say "two"! Also just the mention of the 'Father and the Son & the Holy Spirit ( Matt 20:19) doesnt prove the 'trinity'! Because that is NOT the 'trinity'! (Abreham, Isaac & Jacob' are mentioned a number of times in the bible! Abreham came BEFORE the other two!. I wont accept 'implications' or 'suggestions' e.t.c I stick to BIBLE TRUTH! and dont accept post apostolic religious philosophers take on who 'God' is! ( see Acts 20:28-30 a good read!)
What I don't understand is why it matters. God is one. So if I pray to Jesus, I pray to God. If I feel the Holy Spirit, I feel God. If I judged by the Father, then I still am judged by God. So why not just God? What is the advantage of the symbolism of a triplicity?
It matters because we must know God and His revelations. What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
God gave us His word to reveal Himself to us correct? Using only the words (bible) that God used to describe Himself, explain the trinity. The bible warns us of adding to God's word so when you say the Jesus is "god the son" or the "2nd person" in the Godhead, and the bible doesn't, you're adding to the word of God.
@@Avram-gj6og wrong bc l can describe God being omnipotent without using that word, but you can't describe God being "triune", a non biblical word, without using more non biblical words. The bible doesn't state what you claim the nature of God to be, but it does state exactly what l claim the nature of God to be. I can use the bible alone to describe the Godhead, you can't without using more phrases and words that the bible never uses to describe the Godhead.
Please consider the true meaning of Isaiah 63:10. As a teacher of the word, I feel you are in difficult waters here. IS 63:10 "They rebelled against His (ownership ) Holy Spirit." They rebelled against their God's holy spirit. If there is any question as to the meaning, the parallel passage clears it right up - PS 40 How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve HIM in the desert! "Holy Spirt" is not even in the text. It is quite a jump to add to the passage and include additional commentary to hijack the intended meaning and add another meaning. And there is twice the danger in rewriting the text of the holy scriptures to insert an idea that you hold, and one that is not present in the text. I am certain that this commentary will be deleted, but please, for your own salvation, consider what you are doing here. Read the text: preach the text, unedited. Did you add a Jesus bubble to reinforce your ideas? The only place the Name Jesus appears in the Old Testament is in your added commentary. You are sealing your eternal fate here, and taking so many down with you. Please at least take another look at your work.
@jonney tango you have a lot going on in that comment, just wondering though, what do you mean by a Satanic Jewish Bible? Are you referring to the mesoretic text which is what the King James and Vulgate (Latin catholic bible) and translated from? If that is what your referring to why do you say the mesoretic text is a “satanic Jewish Bible”? I just don’t know what you mean by that, thanks.
@jonney tangoJewish Satanic Bible??? Ah you mean the Satanic verses of Muhammad ! The real Satanic Bible is by Aton La Vey ! Friend of Richard Ramirez who died in San Quentin. Google them!
@jonney tango you are very mixed up. Perverting the name of Christ is exactly what Satan wants you to do. You’re listening to the wrong people. 1 God, 3 persons, Jesus is God sent to Earth as a sacrifice for all sin. If you don’t put your faith in Him, you cannot see Heaven as He states in the NT. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me.
We can’t help but see EVERYTHING from our own very limited physical perspective...but can embrace the totally unlimited ability of our Creator to manifest himself in infinite ways, most of which are beyond our understanding and experience. Only when we take the godly role of Bride and conform to Him in all our ways with all our being do we begin to gain a spiritual understanding of just who and what our Creator really is...after He is living IN US, undistracted by sin and transformed into His likeness-something that will not be complete until He returns as King and we will be with Him and LIKE HIM, which is only possible in small measure for any human within our temporary physical existence. 🕎❤️✝️
So where is the proof in the Bible that God the Creator is the same Yahweh, who introduced Himself to Moses on the Mount ? Why is it that Enoch was able to walk and converse with the God even walk into Heaven with Him (if God the Creator and Yahweh are the same) but Yahweh ( I am here now ) had to present Himself as a burning bush to Moses ? Not going to argue, just a sincere question, thanks
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
From what I understand, there was never any need for translators to capitalize the "Holy Spirit." It is not a name, rather the means by which God operates. It is the spirit OF God, I.e. God's spirit. Jesus is said to be the visible image of the invisible God. Jesus was also the means by which God created all and died and rose for all and showed himself to all. The Istaelites always maintained that "our God is one God, not 3. 3 offices yes, 3 different people? I think not. I personally have never agreed with the traditional view of a trintiy to explain God.
you’re mixing up your words. “The Israelites always maintained that ‘our God is one God’, not 3.” Who said 3 gods? YHWH is one God, but the 3 within YHWH aren’t the same. Is your body the same as your mind and those the same as your spirit? No, but they all function within you making you who you are. Apply that to God, much more complex of course, and VOILÀ, you have one God.
@@footsoldier1188 does not Christendom state that God is three in one? That was the point I was trying to make. The Trinity for the most part teaches "3 persons." Nowhere is this expressed in the OT or the NT for that matter. How does an invisible God who is invisible spirit reveal himself? "In the face of Christ.” Jesus surely then is the relatable express image of a God who cannot be related to by physical means. No need for a trinity, a function as you said yes, I agree.
@@cupofshutupjuice they are three persons. The Father cannot be the Holy Spirit or Jesus. Again, was the Father well pleased with His flesh during Jesus baptism? You simply don’t like the terminology used to describe the triune nature of God. To be blunt you just gotta get over it man. No other way to explain God. “The three persons are distinct, yet are one substance, essence or nature”
@@cupofshutupjuice “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” THREE THAT BEAR RECORD. NOT “THREE TITLES”, but THREE. And they are ONE. Trinity. Godhead.
@@footsoldier1188 Unfortunately you have quoted the portion of scripture known to scholars as "The Johannine comma." It was never in the scriptures prior to the 14th century or so. No doubt someone had an axe to grind. I understand that you may think that "the trinity" is a settled doctrine in Christianity. History shows that it never has been. Christianity's biggest divisions have come from it. Did you know there are over a dozen versions of the trinity? I wonder which one is right? Jesus never corrected Thomas when he asked him who he was. Thomas answered "you are my Lord and my God. Jesus was dumbfounded when his disciples asked him to show them the Father - They of course, were looking at him - God in human form. Jesus always maintained that "he did nothing of himself" and that it was God that "did the works in him." If only we would believe it.
Rozanna Mahmood: Let's let the Word of God prevail: Isaiah 6, verses 1-7: 1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. 5 ¶ Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. 6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. Verse 1: Isaiah saw the Lord God sitting on His throne. *Problem* *#1* for y'all: The Lord God is embodied as only embodied beings *sit.* Verse 2: Two Seraphs, special Angelic Sons/Servants are before the Lord God. Verse 3: One of the Two Seraphs bears witness of the Lord God's holiness. This Seraph is the Holy Ghost. Verses 4-7: The other Seraph forgives sins *and* calls prophets *and* sends them forth to preach. This is Premortal Jesus. Isaiah saw *ALL* *THREE* *SEPARATE* *BEINGS* just as Moses had and much like Matthew recorded. That scream and stampede for the exit is Mickey Heiser and all his once-giddy blindlings trying to cram their way out of the arena. BTW: The only Church that accords 100% with Isaiah and all the other Biblical-era Prophets is The Church of *Jesus* *Christ* of Latter-day Saints.
Very unconvincing. Nowhere in the OT do you have God addressed as three persons. You may as well say that there is Yahweh and there is His mighty arm, and His strong breath. Likewise if the angel (actually mal'ch = messenger) says or does something in the name if God, then it's not a "second person" in the Godhead but God's action.
Sorry Dr. Mike. I love your work on divine council and have taken that on board and I spread it as wide as I can to a stupified traditional taught church. However I disagree on your plurality of God. My understanding: Dr. Heiser has a blind spot with his own teaching where he teaches an "Angel" is a messenger (that i thank him for). That is the definition or "job description" (Mikes own words) of Angel. And that messenger represents God. Angels are plenipotentiaries. (look that up in a dictionary) Then when Mr. Heiser wants to support the trinity he brings out the Angel of the Lord from OT and claims this is a second YHWH figure, where in the text it says "angel of The Lord" (The Lord=Most high God in this case) and can therefore be a representative of God as Heiser points out all through his divine council teachings (again which I thank him for). This is the position of a Plenipotentiary. One who is sent to represent a king and has full authority to speak or act on that kings behalf. Adam was one, an "imager" of God. David is one. We are each called to be one as well. All to varying degrees. Adam was supposed to be the head dude, but he gave it away by grasping at equality with God. The three visitors who called on Abraham were too, plenipotentiaries commissioned to do Gods will in this world. Not two angels and God himself (who would be spirit). There is one God (who is a spirit. a Holy Spirit) and one saviour, "the man Jesus Christ." Who was raised (operative word "raised" not restored) and seated with God and Made Lord and Christ and "given all authority in heaven and earth, high above angels (divine council)..". (operative word "given.") Thats it, no third person. i.e. Jesus anointed by that same Holy Spirit. Which is what Christ means. (Christ= "anointed" in Greek, as Messiah = "anointed" in Hebrew). Jesus is miraculously conceived in the womb of Mary (as Gabriel said) so a human, a special sinless human, but not a god, and after resurrection is anointed and "made Lord and Christ" (Acts2:36)(operative word "made.") and given the wheel, so to speak, of his body, us, as Paul points out repeatedly. So in OT God was "Lord to Israel," now in NT Jesus is "Lord," he is handed that Lordship. (kind of like God showed us in Genesis where Joseph was handed lordship of all egypt, without having to be an egyptian!!! ?? Boss of all egypt but not equal or over Pharaoh himself) Its all about God saving by presenting a spotless lamb of sacrifice, which He does. The blood covers all who come under it by their free will. Not God actually being the sacrifice, that would be cheating Gods own moral position. Jesus, a special son of God, was filled with Gods spirit without measure, as opposed to all the others past and present who receive some measure less than all. That spirit is God, thats God who is spirit. Not a third dude who never gets a throne in Rev22. Dr. Heiser showed me with the divine council, a strong rope of continuity throughout the bible which ties it all logically. This as I stated above compliments that rope. The trinity idea makes a whole bunch of loose threads hang out of the rope.
Very well said. Unfortunately, tradition is so hard to unlearn. MH is brilliant but susceptible to the same thing. Thus he does some pretty weak mental gymnastics to reconcile the obvious flaws in classic trinitarianism. My bottom line is that if God wanted this spelled out clearly he would have. He didn't so it's probably not that important to the big picture. That or we unnecessarily complicate things because we can't help ourselves, lol.
@@Ranchpig67 Thanks. I like your name, obviously one of His sheep working unobserved among the fattening pigs. lol. Yes i agree with your last sentence too, but the second last one is also my concern and that one who never quite knows their Lord might.... just might, be one who is told "... depart from me i never knew you." and i dont want to be responsible for not trying to tell them. Thanx frm down under.
@Shaddai Monteon very briefly put (because that comment was rather long). After 38 years as a std trinitarian evangelical christian, I was shown how i had been reliant on being told by "church" what scripture said. I am now no longer a believer in a 3 in 1 God. Jesus is not God. Jesus is the second or last Adam as Paul says and by definition must be a man as Adam was, this time obedient. That man, a special son of God, is the sacrificial lamb as the blood covering of the people God is calling to salvation from the morrass the original spiritual sons of God caused by rebellion and tempting the first Adam, as Mike Heiser portrays in his work. God is a jealous God who hates what His sons have done, but a loving and forgiving God towards His human family caught up in the mess through the wiles of the spiritual family.
@Shaddai Monteon consider Jesus is still (now) prophetically king of kings (when he comes into his kingdom and rules the nations he will then be, millenial reign begins at sec coming) and is even now lord of lords (Acts2,36) "Made Lord." And as he said to disciples when appearing after crucifixion "i have been given authority over all in heaven and earth." (not over God of course) (its like Joseph in Egypt) he is currenrly waiting till God makes the world his footstool. So to answer, rather than repeat what i have said over and over ( im tapping this out on my phone) i will outline my journey and point to some teachings. 4 yrs ago while researching 1Cor12 13 and 14 to answer someone on the so called "gifts" i found something i had never been shown in 38 yrs a pentecostal believer. That was that word "gift" was added in 1cor12:1 "Now concerning spiritual (gifts) brethren...." And in ch14:1 "..... and earnestly desire the spiritual (gifts), especially...." I have put the gift words in brackets like a Koine Greek interlinear does for a good reason. Because they ARE NOT IN THE GREEK ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPH !! A kjv old print edition has them in italics. same reason. I dont want to get off arguing about pentecostal stuff, the point is these words create a misunderstanding that the nine things listed in ch12 are "gifts" where they are really manifestations as stated in v7. So translaters thinking these are all power giftings have added the word to "help" us understand. Losing Pauls original teaching about manifesting spirit in a typical meeting (see ch11), same context. It changes the meaning! TH-cam search "The giver, the gift and the manifestations, truth and tradition" There you will find a 3 part teaching on this issue, and the difference it makes. The issue I faced was a complete turn around and lightbulb moment. I immediately thought ..."what else has church teaching told me which is a bit off track?" Well there is a lot. At least four big issues which others have pointed out for years and been branded as error. One is the false Sethite view of Gen6: 1-4. I thank Mike Heiser for helping me get that sorted out. As you found me on Mikes channel you will likely know his teaching on divine council. Another is the false burning in hell fire eternally, instead of the concept of being burned up and perishing in the rubbish fire (fires of gehenna... ger=valley. henna = Hinnim valley of Hinnim, where jerusalem burnt its rubbish and Jesus pointed out the parralel.) This is so hard to keep short. Thats just the start... The next one for me was jn8:58 and the "I AM" error over translating the Greek "ego eimi". TH-cam search "Anthony Buzzard Jn8:58." That will introduce a whole can of worms and argument. Its no argument from me, its completely logical what Buzzard says, even if you dont like him for other reasons.
No, it was DEFINED by the Catholic Council of Nicea, but if sola scriptura were in play, they would have argued about it online for 1,000 years. Why accept one Council but not the rest?
@@simelisiphomncube3434 No, the trinity is an invention of men. Neither Jesus nor his Apostles ever taught it: Charles Ryrie, in Basic Theology, writes: It is fair to say that the Bible does not clearly teach the doctrine of the Trinity . . . In fact, there is not even one proof text, if by proof text we mean a verse or passage that 'clearly' states that there is one God who exists in three persons" (1999, p. 89).
@@Cato-263 the trinity is not taught In scripture but is evidently shown. Just like Jesus. He never called himself God but he is God. We never needed the catholic teachings about the trinity The trinity: It's right there in the old and new Testament It's right there when we get baptised In whose name do we get baptised in? In God name we get baptised And that is the Holy spirit, The Son and The Father it's right there in the bible OLD TESTAMENT We have the Angel of Lord as We have the Holy Spirit And we have the LORD.
@@simelisiphomncube3434 Why are my comments being deleted? Please ask the author of the post to stop deleting my comments. So far 4 comments of mine have been deleted. Why is he afraid of the truth. I can take screen shots if you don't believe me.
@@Cato-263 It appears you are the end of all truth and you know all things. It's a pity your comments were deleted because you unquestionably have all the answers. It's right there in the old and new Testament - is not a Bible verse It's right there when we get baptised - is not a Bible verse etc. What is shocking to me is appears you didn't even try to crack open your own Bible and do your own study but instead like a faithful recording mouthed back what you've heard and not what you've studied. Study to show thyself approved 2 Timothy 2:15 - Study is not parroting back what someone told you. What you could have at least stated to show you at least tried was 1 John 5:7-8 No I'm not going to write it down because I want you to actually look it up for yourself. Brother, you sound like a recording. Don't be like me that for decades saw things only through the lenses of my teachers. I didn't read the Bible and see it for what it said, instead I read the Bible and saw it for what my teachers said that it said. They claimed the Bible was the final authority while placing themselves as the final authority on the final authority. When they taught me "Bible" and how to be pleasing to God it resulted in me nearly ending it all years later. What they gave me was religion and emptiness with a fancy coat of Bible principals and teachings to live by. I had decades of study but realized I was empty inside, a salvation that had barely been given a chance to grow into a relationship with Christ that mattered. Study for yourself, find out what matters and what doesn't, don't get caught up in church politics and things that don't profit. If you disagree are get angry and want to accuse me of falsehood then please be my guest but I will require you show me the exact verse and reference where what I've stated something wrong. Merely stating "the Bible says" is not a Bible verse.
@@elel2608 : The early Christians were monotheistic Jews. The God of the OT is Unitarian ,not Trinitarian. Moses and the prophets knew nothing of a trinity.
Don't forget to attend today's WEBINAR, March 21, at 8:00 p.m. (ET) on this TH-cam Channel THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL LOGOS DISCOUNT FOR WEBINAR ATTENDEES - BEST PRICE OF THE YEAR. Simulcast: Facebook: facebook.com/DRMSHPhD Don't forget to join the DIVINE COUNCIL WORLDVIEW - Bible Discussion Group facebook.com/groups/393777644878175
From the beginning, the problem was obvious, - Eisegesis *(what you are doing),* reads into the text what the interpreter wishes to find or thinks he finds there. It expresses the reader's own subjective ideas, not the meaning which is in the text. - Exegesis *(what you are not doing)* is legitimate interpretation which ‘reads out of' the text what the original author or authors meant to convey.
I think that it is wonderful to watch this video, I was reading some of these verses 24 years ago, which led me to reading the Renewing Covenant ( New Testament ) and found Salvation or Ye-hua Je-us, thus becoming fulfilled. The Bride of the Massiach ( Messiah ) need more teachings like this. Unfortunately when I have been invited to speak, it has been met with mixed results.🙄🙄 Though it is fantastic that many people are learning more about G-d, now the hard part is for Gentiles is to stop thinking in the abstract concepts 🔳➿➰💨 ( western ) and start thinking in concrete or tangible concepts. ( eastern, the same way people thought in the TaNaKa or Old Testament ) 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
Isn't this the original covenant promised to Abraham? "In your seed (singular - Jesus) shall all nations be blessed"...so the New is really God's original intent as far as I can tell.
@@TruckTruck-gu9vs There was also a promise given to Eve, and her Seed. Ye-hua ( Je-us ) her Seed crush the head of the serpent ( accuser ) and the serpent would bruise His heel. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
I have often meditated on this wonder ... when the Seraphim cry out "Holy, Holy, Holy" they are addressing a Trinity-individually! (in the OT in Isaiah and in the NT in Revelation) ❤️
@@willtheperson7224 What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
Talk about profound ignorance of The Old Testament! These Prophets and the later Apostles never taught the contrivances of Emperor Constantine's church.
I feel like 90% of the objections in the comments could be answered with "watch the entire clip." If one does that and then still disagrees that's fine, but when people imput arguments that aren't being made they're not helping anyone learn and grow.
I watched it 3 times. So if God manifested as a angel shouldn't the Godhead be a quadrilateral being. Or when he manifested as the burning bush,... what about a Pentagon? God is everywhere and can manifest himself anywhere. What I find VERY strange is that the revelation of a triune God need to be so convoluted and complicated. Also funny that he drags the holy spirit into the trinity in his speech like most of the church did up until I think it was 362. Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff. But then again: the trinity doctrine seems more like a math formula to try and solve some theoretical problem. Probably why many people struggle. It has no bearing on your day to day life. ;)
@@snaphaan5049 What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
@@snaphaan5049 The issue is you aren't cross referencing and establishing the context of what you read to link the person of the trinity to the statement. No wonder you would be confused. Case in point right here in this video it was already stated Jesus said he was the God that appeared to Moses at the burning bush, the I AM. So that means the burning bush was not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Jesus died on the cross would you say it was the Father or Holy Spirit? No. A modicum of critical thinking goes a long way.
@@snaphaan5049 You actually answered your own question. Augustine pondered some of your same questions in his Confessions and it led him to the trinity. If God is everywhere, how can he manifest it any one point and still be everywhere? Augustine asks if God is everywhere, does that mean a larger space contains a larger amount of God? Clearly not. Clearly an omnipotent being must be able to manifest in order to act and must also remain above the universe, containing the universe, otherwise God would not be omnipotent. Without either of those qualities, God would be severely limited. So God can manifest at a location (Christ), God is also above the universe and contains it (the Father), and God is also able to move through space so that one part of space does not define or separate God (the Holy Spirit). So any localization or location in space that is a manifestation of God is Christ. Christ acted in history prior to the incarnation of Jesus. It is not that complicated. If you think it has no bearing on ordinary life, read Cynthia Bourgeault's "The Law of Three and the Trinity", everything in the universe has a threefold manifestation (example protons, neutrons and electrons). Humans tend to see things as dichotomies (one side vs another side), higher consciousness can be found looking for a third perspective. Humans love splitting people into two groups, for example "left vs right", God sees that there is another perspective above and beyond that duality. This is where the law of the threefold shows that the whole universe mirrors the triune God.
I would even go back much farther in history. The concept of a trinity is to be found in the old religion of Egypt: The imperial temple of Karnak consists of three precincts, that of Amun-Re in the center, and those of Mut and of Monthu in the South and the North. There were also three Highpriests in the New Kingdom.
Thanks for breaking it down Dr Heiser. No matter how many times you explain the Trinity, there will always dorks in comments who misunderstood 😅 poor soul and poor brain 🧠
@@citra678 My friend, is n't the trinity an attempt to completely understand what God is ? My friend, what God is is beyond us , we are creation. By your own argument the trinity falls on its face, any person with sound reasoning will always have doubt in his heart about the trinity . Why flow doubt ? Jesus said, the o nly true God is the father , not trinity., and jesus did not leave without a will , to follow the next spirit of truth, that will guide the whole world to all the truth. Seek him and you'll find him
@@approvedofGod yaaaa wrong! When you don't have the Holy Spirit you cannot see truth! Watch all his videos before making up your mind : they all fit together in the context of the time and people the books were written ! I wasn't sure at first either but the more i watched the more they make sense and actually helped my apologetics against Mormonism.
@@approvedofGod denying the trinity as the this video shows that the Bible teaches both in the O.T and N.T. is a sure sign that you don't have the Holy Spirit and you are Spirituality blind to that fact!
@@davidjanbaz7728 That is one conclusion. The other is that I know how Trinitarians continue to mislead, by twisting, and misinterpreting scripture. It is the Holy Spirit who is revealing the truth of the false trinity doctrine. Trinitarians are so ignorant they don't even know how to pray to their trinity!
That was so simple yet so good. Thank you so much for your service to the church, Dr. Heiser. Your manner of addressing this is altogether scholarly and biblical. May the Lord bless you more with opportunities to be able to speak these things to greater audiences. We need this even more in our churches today considering the widespread ignorance of the Old Testament in preaching and teaching amongst congregations. To God be the glory!
Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff. I can't say I believe the trinity because at the moment I really don't understand it. Doesn't make sense. I guess it's kind of like a theoretical math formula. Probably why I struggle.
@@au8363 You are rehashing what everyone says but it makes no sense. It's like that 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 nonsense. This is pure theological speculation and make believe. The Catholics can provide biblical proof for the assumption of Mary, Tranasubstantiation and even something as silly as the pope. So yeah, you can propably scrape out something like the trinity doctrine if you have time on your hand and the intellectual capacity. But most people don't. Fact. The trinity doctrine has no bearing on my life or anyone I know whatsoever. It's nothing like the ten commandments
@@au8363 My dad is 85 and my mom 75. They don't understand the trinity. They are good people, reformers but speculative theology like the trinity never made much impact. Even today I bet you most people sitting in the pew here in George have no idea what it's really about. My parents had to somehow raise 5 children after my dad lost his contract. We fell on some hard times but I will never forget what got us through it (my siblings were too young). They had absolute faith that God will help us through it. And he did. One morning in 1994 while reading the book of Samuel my dad had a epiphany. And everything changed after that. So you tell me. How do they know God? Or why did God help them and help me through my life? No trinity doctrine was involved in any part of their lives. And neither did it impact my life and I'm already close to 50. You bible geeks forget that their are normal people with normal problems and some really don't have the mental capacity or maybe even the interest to understand this stuff. So they have to take YOUR word for it. If we were catholic that kind of approach might have made more sense.
This is also a problem with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They claim that Jesus was an angel, Michael, and he came to earth. They say that the OT refers to Jesus as the Angel of the Lord. How can we explain this?
All lies. People relax you do not need to believe Catholic dogma in fact you must run from their lies. You simply need to follow the command to believe Yehoshua came in the flesh and was sent by the Father. Those are the words of Yehoshua. Anyone who teaches otherwise, in other words he came as spirit (Eloheem or part Eloheem) is a deceiver and of the spirit of the ANTI-ANOINTED ONE. His flesh was fully anointed by the pure spirit of Yahuah. All this is a distraction by Satan to keep you away from what is important and that is that Yehoshua came to preach Torah obedience, not do away with it, and you need to obey the Torah if you want eternal life, now that Yehoshua has redeemed you, once and for all, by his blood. Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law [TORAH] or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULLY PREACH (Greek: pleroo) them. Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until shamayim (pw heaven) and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law [TORAH]until all is accomplished. Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of shamayim (pw heaven), but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of shamayim. Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of shamayim (pw heaven).
As a Christian of Jewish origin I say that when my father Avraham saw the LORD God YHWH manifested in the flesh, I mean the episode narrated in Genesis 18, he knew very well that he was before the One True God manifested in the flesh and this also applies to all manifestations of God as מלאך־יהוה or the Angel of YHWH. My fathers, the ancient Israelites knew that the מלאך־יהוה was YHWH himself and did not believe that he was another “person” or another “hypostasis” and one of the many examples of this also emerges from Judges 2:1-3. And verses such as Acts 16:6-7, Romans 8:9 and Galatians 4:6 when compared with verses such as John 14:9, 2Corinthians 5:19 and Colossians 2:9 clearly demonstrate that the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Eternal Father manifested in the flesh and in fact also from the comparison between 1Timothy 3:16 and 1Corinthians 8:6 in which we read that the only God is the Father we understand that the Father manifested himself in the flesh and the Bible teaches that he is the Lord Jesus Christ God the Eternal Father manifested in flesh. And that the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Eternal Father manifested in flesh also emerges from the comparison between John 2:19-21 and Galatians 1:1. Do not believe in the false doctrine of the trinity believe in the True and Only Lord Jesus Christ the Eternal Father God of the Bible, God of my fathers the God of Israel.
If Jesus is God the Father then why did the Father say This is my son? Why did Jesus say The Father is greater than I? Obviously he's not the Father if the Father says he is his son. This is the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Your argument is both just nitpicking and refusing to accept God the Fathers own words that This Is My Son. He couldn't have said it more plainly.
@@columkenn God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the Father is the only God (1Corinthians 8:6) and God was manifested in flesh (1Timothy 3:16) so Scripture clearly teaches that it is the Father who was manifested in flesh and the Lord Jesus Christ has clearly said that He is the Father (John 14:9). There is no “second person” God the Son but the Son of God, the Son who was to be born (Luke 1:35) on a certain day (Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33; Hebrews 1:5; Hebrews 5:5) and not begotten in eternity which is a contradiction, the Son who is the אביעד Everlasting Father manifested in flesh (Isaiah 9:6).
@-charutz6732 Read Hebrews chapter 1. You will see God the Father himself call Jesus God. The Holy Spirit is also identified as God. That is the Trinity. God manifested in flesh is Jesus the son of God who is also God, but Jesus is not the Father. That's very clear from Scriptures. You should read it again. Matthew 3:16-17 gives a clear picture of the Trinity. God the Father says Jesus is my son so he can't be more clear to you. God's Holy Spirit descends on Jesus, who is God the son. You have the Trinity in those 2 verses.
@@columkenn Hebrews 1 must be understood in the right way, in fact for example also in Exodus 34:6 YHWH God speaking of himself not in the first person called himself אל רחום וחנון God compassionate and gracious and there is another example in verse 14 where also in that case YHWH God speaking about himself not in the first person said כי יהוה קנא שמו אל קנא הוא therefore he said that his name is Jealous and that he is jealous God but my fathers the ancient Israelites had to believe that God is one they did not have to believe in two or three so-called “persons” who should have seen as polytheism and must always be seen that way. The Holy Spirit is God himself because God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the only God is the Father (1Corinthians 8:6) therefore it cannot be said that the Holy Spirit is God but not the Father just as it cannot be said that the Lord Jesus Christ is God but not the Father because the only God is the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6) and God was manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16) therefore the Father was manifested in the flesh because the only God is the Father (1Corinthians 8:6) and the Lord Jesus Christ said He was the Father (John 14:9).
@-charutz6732 You are the one who misunderstood the text and twists its meaning to fit your false narrative. The text was intended to be easily understood. Stop twisting the words and meaning of Scriptures. God told you in his book that "THIS IS MY SON". What part of that don't you understand. He also referred to HIS SON as God. Just accept that you misunderstood it previously. The Son who is also God says The Father is greater than I. They are both God and with the Ruach HaQodesh or Holy Spirit they are the Trinity.
This very limited view of the origin of the Trinity Doctrine lacks the OT context that would explain a Hebraic understanding of connection and how the original audience would have understood these connections. While we are throwing around the term ignorance, I would offer that being ignorant of dualism and polytheism prior to the Council of Nicea is perhaps the greatest shortfall of the information contained in this video. The CoN is not responsible for the creating the doctrine; only making it necessary to be connected to the church. If Mr. Heiser is aware of the actual origins of the idea, before it was added officially to early church theology, then I hope he shares it with his followers.
1:49 "In Isiah 63 they rebel and grieve against the holy spirit." But that's not what the text says, is it? They rebel and grieve against HIS spirit. I understand this slight of Hand is probably unconcious, but nevertheless the teachings of a triune God is based on such slights of Hands. Instead of The Son of God they preach of God the Son, instead of the birth of Jesus they preach of the incarnation of the Son and so on. Isaiah 63 does not say that they rebelled and grieved against the third person of the Trinity. It says, that they rebelled and grieved against the spirit of God.
The Trinitarian struggle arises from the assumption of Trinitarianism, the belief that Jesus was God or a Person of God and the Son of God. This struggle often stems from a detachment from Judaism and a lack of understanding of the historical context of scripture. Did the Jews believe that the Angel of Yahweh was Yahweh Himself? Were they confused? No, the Trinitarians struggle with these concepts, not the Jews. The Trinitarian teaching did not emerge out of thin air; humans have worshipped triads for thousands of years. Virtually every ancient society worshipped a trinitarian deity. Interestingly, the Jews did not worship one, yet they understood the concept of the Trinity. Were they not captives in Babylon? The Babylonians worshipped Sin, Shamash, and Ishtar as a Triad. Were they not captives in Egypt? Amun, Mut, and their son Khonsu were also considered the triad of Thebes. Then there's the triad of Memphis, and so on, until we come to Athanasius, often regarded as the Father of the Trinity. Dr. Michael S. Heiser, are you suggesting that you are not aware of the specific historical and intellectual context of the early Church? Why are Trinitarians so reluctant to provide the full historical context? Was the word "Trinity" always understood to mean what Trinitarians mean today? Did Tertullian use it in the same way as Athanasius? Did Origen use it that way? Did Arius just appear out of nowhere? It is well known that Athanasius was influenced by Platonism, Aristotelian metaphysics, and Neoplatonism. He utilized concepts like substance, essence, and unity to articulate the relationships within the Trinity. Philosophical language and terminology, including terms like "ousia" and "homoousios," which are never found in scripture, are not how God or Jesus is described in relation to the Father. It's remarkable how Trinitarian scholars, despite their vast knowledge, often falter when encountering topics related to the Trinity. They may fail in history, in Hebrew or Greek, and seem to collapse under scrutiny. We were warned by scripture about such teachings (Colossians 2:8). It's unfortunate that the scriptures will never be good enough for Trinitarians.
Thanks for clarifying what I have always thought , and said , …… that the big overriding fact that Trinitarians ignore , is that nobody living back in Bible times, ever believe that God was a triune God, they ignore the fact that there was a whole civilization living back then ( Jews ) who kept meticulous religious records , and yet they make no mention of a triune God , In fact, we described God in the opposite way 👉🏼 Deuteronomy 6: 4 , I’m sorry people, but The Trinity was assumed into the scriptures about 300 years after the Bible was written !
What is very confusing about "the Trinity", is when Jesus was on Earth, he actually prayed to HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN! And in the "model Prayer" he demonstrated for us to use, we were directed to "Pray to the Father" in Heaven. Jesus NEVER taught anyone that he was superior to "The Father" or that we should pray to "him" (Jesus) instead of THE FATHER.
Why is that confusing? For one, Jesus is a different person from the Father, so it actually makes sense that He would speak to Him (the Father). In the Gospels, you have the voice of the Father speaking of (and directly to) Jesus a couple of times. If the point of confussion is the object of His prayer (ie what was being said), remember, Jesus is both God and man at the same time. Fully God and fully man at the same time. Since He is both, He can speak of Himself as either in any circumastance. For example, with relationship to the Father, as God He is equal to the Father "The Father and I are one, the Father dwells in me and I in Him", but as a man, He is less than the Father (the Father is greater than I). Now, with respect to Jesus not teaching prayer to Himself, it was not needed. For one, the people whom He healed did so "Oh Lord, Jesus, Son of David, Have mercy on me/us" or if you will, since Son of David=Messiah=Christ, "Oh Lord, Jesus Christ, have mercy on me/us". That's how they got Jesus' attention in the first place. On the other hand, access to the Father comes only through the Son "none can come to the Father, except through Me". Even the "model prayer" itself nods to that, by asking "τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον", which is translated as "our daily bread", but actually means "our most essencial bread". While one can argue that it means "give us the essesial to survive", given that the rest of the prayer asks spiritual or heavenly things, it also referrencess the heavenly bread, Jesus. "I am the bread that came down from Heaven, he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood, dwells in Me, and I in him; for My flesh is an actual food, and My blood an aclual drink; verily do I say to you, unless you eat of My flesh and drink of My blood, you have no eternal life". So the prayer includes a part which means "give us the heavenly bread, your Son".
I have to disagree, He did hint to His disciples that He was to be prayed to. He referred to Himself as their Master and stated emphatically that we cannot serve two masters. He also said that He and the Father are ONE.
@@thenowchurch6419 Thomas statement is after the Resurrection but people did worship Jesus like the lame man that Jesus healed. Most of the worshipping of Jesus happens after his Resurrection in his Glorified body before going back to heaven. This was a mystery as Paul states to keep the haSatan from interfering with God's plan.
@@thenowchurch6419 watch Dr.Michael Heiser PhD in Biblical languages on The Naked Bible podcast. Paul said it was a mystery hidden but now revealed: Dr.Michael Heiser gives reasons that it was to prevent interference by haSatan as per Pauls statement that if they really knew who Jesus was and why he came: haSatan would not have incouaged the Jews to crucified Jesus. Since that was God's plan all along.
@@LoftOfTheUniverse You prove the Trinity.... you're the one making the preposterous claim.... the burden of proof falls on the person saying that something DOES exist, not that that it doesn't. How can Jesus BE God if Jesus claims that he can do nothing except His Father shows him first, and that His Father is greater than him, and that he was begotten and therefore not eternal and he was visible (no man has seen God at any time). Jesus had a God. Does God have a God? Jesus had a Father. Does God have a father? Jesus didn't do his own will, but the will of he who sent him. Does God do his own will? Jesus learned obedience. Did God learn obedience? Jesus died... can God die? Jesus was a man.... but the Bible said "God is NOT a man that He should lie. Jesus was the Son of Man.... but the Bible says, "neither is He the Son of Man that He should repent." That's just a sample of the reasons that Jesus is not God.
The Father is Spirit. The Father is Holy. The Father is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is referred to with male pronouns because the Father and the Holy Spirit are synonymous. The Son of God, Christ, was given all things, which means there was a time when He did not have all things, otherwise, why was He given all things. The Trinity is a double-talking myth.
Hi Dr. Heiser! At 1:45+ in this video, "ruwach" is the Hebrew word translated "spirit" in both passages. It can mean "wind", "breath", "mind", "thought", "non-physical power", and so on. Hardly a rational being. We can correctly quote the Word with: "God is spirit", but certainly not all ruwach are God. Speaking of the second resurrection of the dead, Christ said, "I will _pour out_ My spirit on all flesh." You can't "pour out" a person. Nor can one of "three equal Persons" decide what another one of them can do. Nor can any of them possibly decide to give another of his "equals" away. Starting with the first English translation (AV / KJV) most references to God's holy spirit as "He" or "Him" are concentrated in the NT gospel of John. As with the other books, this was translated by a man who came from well over 1200 years of enforced Roman Catholicism. Obviously, this Roman Catholic Englishman was especially indoctrinated with the thought of God's spirit/power/life-force as a "He". But even in the AV there are FAR MORE references to Gods (holy) spirit as "it" or "which" or "that" than any personifications. "Three equal Persons in one God" - a "Trinity" - That's what I was taught in Roman Catholic schools from the first grade through Roman Catholic University. It's a Roman Catholic TRADITION, not Scriptural, and not made "official doctrine" until it was voted in as a compromise as the Council of Nicea was breaking up in August of AD 327. Check your facts, Michael, please! Read the article entitled "The History of Christian Thought" as it appears in the 1913 ed. of The CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA (Vol.1, p.258). The section referring to the emperor's AD 325-27 Council at Nicaea includes the council's vehement debate over God being one or two Persons, and then the compromise.*** It closes with: "Of those who cared enough to remain behind and vote, the 'Trinity' idea carried by a slim margin." The article was eiminated from further editions. The Roman Church continues to purchase/confiscate and destroy as many copies of the 1913 edition as they can find - making it quite a job to find one today. But it's not impossible. There are still a few around, sir. As of 1985 the New York Public Library (midtown) still had one they had refused to 'sell' to the Archdiocese of New York. And so into the vault it went. On a tip I was able to have copies of the article made for myself. ***** "the compromise"? This solidly identifies Emperor Constantine's Roman Universal (Catholic) Religion/Church as the world's largest counterfeit of God's "ekklesia" ever to exist . . . established only for political expediency . . . and identified in Rev.17:5 as "Mystery Babylon the Great, the mother of prostitutes" (NIV). Thanks for listening.
My mum explained it to me when I was 5 that God is like an orange and its segments - where ever you put the seperate pieces, they still come from that one place that makes it whole. Definitely satisfied my curiosity & helped me to understand His awesomeness
Cute. But it doesn't solve the core issues. Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff. I can't say I believe the trinity because at the moment I really don't understand it. 99% of people don't. They swallow up analogies like this but if you start scratching you realize these people are clueless. But I guess it's kind of like a theoretical math formula. Probably why I struggle. It's always funny how Christians drag along along the spirit in the trinity - most don't really know what to do with it. Even the early church was confused about that aspect and only in 362 (I think) they finally settled on the spirit as part of the triune God. Crazy.
@@snaphaan5049and there it’s only in this level of honesty does one actually see clearly. The author of confusion is satan, not the most high. So if we the people are in constant confusion about a certain teaching or doctrine, critical thinking skills would allow you to srealize that satan is seeking to be worshipped and glorified like the most high and to be his equal by claiming a name that he comes in to deceive the whole world. i believe we are to only worship the most high, the one true god. his son was sent to teach us his way and to always go to the father as the only god. Anyone who is worshiping Jesus the son and god the father as EQUALS has been deceived into worshipping two gods. For satan also holds the title of god of this world, does that mean he is also god? No it doesn’t, god is a title. A title that’s synonymous with ruler. A father and son are never equals. The apple and the tree are not the same. The apple comes from the tree. Just as Christ the son came from God the father. and he bared the fruit of his father aka he lived and showed himself to be from the tree of the most high, his father. Our creator uses nature to teach us the most simplest yet most potent lessons. It’s only in the confusion of a trinity do people start to struggle understanding who is who and what is what.
@@Southforthewinter Well said, and agreed! If it doesn't make sense, then we can assume satan caused this confusion. The trinity is a man made doctrine. Jesus is the Son of God! No one comes to the father but by him. John 14:6 Simple, clear, and to the point.
That is modalism, not Trinitarianism. Your Mum meant well, but forgive me, she is wrong in her analogy. What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
Who coined the word trinitas or trinity and who formulated the doctrine of the trinity?? Was Abraham a trinitarian or monotheist? Is the doctrine of God an absolute numerical one or not?
Absolutely love MH but this is such a weak argument. Totally buy the 2 god explanation, but old testament idea of "spirit" is stretching it. Even the primary example of psalms and Isaiah contradict what is proposed. David says GOD, not spirit. So the Isaiah example is weak. Bottom line is Trinitarianism is very weak indeed and comes from pagan roots. So many examples it's ridiculous. Whether it was the council of Nicea or before is irrelevant. Somehow the pagan tradition creeped into NT theology. Everything is mental gymnastics to explain it. You see this over and over again in church history. Easter, Christmas, etc. All pagan foundations re-formatted and re-explained in a "christian" version. Heck, even the statue of Peter in Rome is a repurposed pagan god. So make your arguments, but it fails because it has to reach into sketchy passages and esoteric arguments. Bottom Line: It doesn't matter. If God really wanted this stuff clear it would have been absolutely ironed out in scripture. The fact that it isn't is proof that it's low on importance. Do you own research. Ask simple questions, ones that 99% of churches don't encourage. Think like a child and just ask basic questions and so much will be revealed. Ask God to help and forget everything you've been taught. Remember Jesus got pretty pissed off at 2 things. The bankers of his day, and those teaching the traditions of men. He didn't even get angry at the devil who was tempting him. Think about that.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God from the Genesis. I don't think they're distinct from one another either. So let's say instead of God flying over the seas, He divided His Spirit (probably something much smaller) to create the world. Silly example but if you cut your arm, that arm doesn't become someone else, it is still you and yours, whereas with Jesus, who was conceived through the HS, is a distinct being from God but He isn't God, although someone who has knowledge (albeit not all of it) and authority from God, that is why He said He's One with God. In the Scripture, He refers to God as the Father, he prays to God and everything He says, He attributes to His Father. In the OT, God tells Isiah that He'll send someone and put His own words in that person's mouth, God predicts that we'd call him God because of it. Now as someone who's read the Bible, this much has become clear to me, I've always wondered why it isn't clear to other people who speak of three sort of Gods?
@@davidjanbaz7728 "Trinitarianism is pagan" is a very Muslim view of Christian theology so it's a reasonable assumption. However he's subscribed to Jay Dyer and no Muslim thinkers so I have to say it's unlikely.
This is complete rubbish! Also an insult to the hebrew religion of which Jesus, Paul & most of his early disciples were devotees! Jesus' when asked reppeated "Hear oh Israel! Jehovah ( YHWH) your God is ONE JEHOVAH, and you must love Him ( singular!) with all you heart, Soul and mind!" ( Mark 12:29). Paul made it clear that this was STILL the 'status quo' at 1 Cor 8:6 "As for us there is ONE GOD THE FATHER". Also Eph 4:6 "ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL PERSONS". Nowhere in the NT does it say 'God the Son' or 'God the Holy Spirit'. The word 'trinity' 'three persons in one God' e.t.c is entirely an invention of the Neo Roman church of the 3rd century onwards!
Abraham did not believe in the modern interpretation of the Trinity. He knew there was a Father, a Son, and a Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons, one distinct goal.
@@truthbebold4009 No it does not. Yahweh said before Him there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Him..and when Jesus (The Son) was being baptized, the Father spoke from heaven (this is my Son, with whom I'm well pleased) and the "Spirit" descended like a dove...One God, One Being (3 distinct persons, 3 distinct functions)...always working together as 1.
@@truthbebold4009 That's because HE IS..lol..the only Son of God..He is God the Son..Second person of the trinity. That's why He said "If you've seen Me, you've seen the Father"..."I and the Father are One"..."Before Abraham was, I AM"..(and finally in Revelation 22:13) "I am the Alpha and Omega..the First and the Last..the Beginning and the End"...Jesus was God the Son (the Word) manifested in the flesh...make no mistake about it...Bible is clear.
@@truthbebold4009 That is scripture. The scriptures NOWHERE teaches a trinity. The Spirit is expressed on numerous occasions to be BELONGING TO the Father and the Son and it is not anything in and of itself. It is Their Spirit. To put it plainly, IT'S(THE SPIRIT) IS THEM.
So then why did Jesus use "father and son" langauge to describe his relation ship with God....i mean himself...? It just makes no sense.. I suppose if you really want to force the issue you can interpret hints and clues in many scriptures, but the fact that Jesus chose not to support a trinitarian message, even tellign his apostles that he asked God to send a helper (holy spirit), makes it clear that they are not the same being. He woudl have used differnet language to convey that idea, if it were true. Now if you want to compare the trinity to a "council" or "group" or "committee" of sorts, comprising 3 entities, operating together as "one"...united in purpose and goal, then fine....but to suggest they are the same being....makes no sense....
An easier claim to confirm the Old Testament / Jewish Tanach contains the Trinity would be simply to use Genesis 1:2 for the Spirit of God walked upon the waters of the deep. This is the same phrase as in Matthew's Gospel when Jesus was baptised in the River Jordan. Isaiah 53 talks about the Messiah (Christ, in Greek) saying He pays the price for our transgressions and inquities. By His wounds, we are healed. He was cut off from the land of the living (i.e. He was killed and died). Then it says He carried on doing stuff on Earth. Huh ? In the previous verse He died, how does He carry on ? It only makes sense when you realise scripture is saying He comes back to life. Resurrected.
This is one of the few times I disagree with Michael. I was raised and attended trinitarian churches for over 40 years. It wasn't until I studied the word myself that I saw the trinity is a developed doctrine of men. Numerous verses against it contrasted with a few uncertain or grey scriptures. -6828 times YHWH appears in scripture. Singular personal pronouns are used in conjuction with the Father. Only 4 times are plural pronouns used in which Heiser admits its not necessary talking about the trinity. Example- Gen 1:26 -Over 60 times a throne is a reference to either the Father or the Son. Not once is the holy spirit shown to have a throne. -- In the video here Michael lread that was HIS holy spirit. Meaning the spirit belonged to the Father.
Hi everybody!
I want to remind everyone to join our DRMSH exclusive community. We are going to have tons of exclusive content like weekly live sessions, protected articles, and more. So, sign up now!
community.drmsh.com/
In the Gospel According to Matthew, the Savior is to be known as “Emmanuel,” which means “God with us” (Matthew 1:23). This is not His Personal name, it is a descriptive name identifying who He is to us. He is “God with us,” Emmanuel! Also, “He shall be called a Nazarean” (Matthew 2:23, Nazarene), however, His Personal name is by revelation and is a specific name (Matthew 1:21).
Matthew 2:23 “And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, ‘He shall be called a Nazarean.’”
Question: Where did the prophets in the Old Testament prophesy, “He shall be called a Nazarean”?
Answer: There is no prophet in the Old Testament, who prophesied, “He shall be called a Nazarean”!
Question: Well then, do we know what His Personal name truly is?
Answer: The angel of the Lord said, “...you shall call His name…” (Matthew 1:21). This is a commandment, which makes the actual revealed name given to the Savior of utmost importance. Most would say that the Savior’s name is “Jesus.” Unfortunately, this name was never revealed by God, nor did God authorize the name Jesus.
Question: So it goes, did the angel say the name, “Jesus?” This is what we need to know.
Answer: No. Historically, the name Jesus has only existed in its present form since the 17th century. A change was made that caused the Savior’s supposed name to become Jesus, which was never authorized by God. In the 1611 KJV of the Bible, we find the name “Iesus.” Pronounced “ee-sus” changed to Jesus, “gee-sus,” after the year 1632. No angel gave the commandment from God to the disciples of Christ allowing them to call Christ by the name, “Jesus.” Therefore, the name Jesus is a substitute name. Iesus comes from Iesous, which is a transliteration of the name Yeshua. Because the name of the Savior is a revealed name, this kind of linguistic evolution is not honored by God, which defies His revelation and commandment. To accept a substitute name is to reject the very name revealed by God. More specifically, substitute names, such as Jesus, Iesus, or Iesous are in reality a rejection of the true revealed name of the Savior.
Question: Why does it matter what name we use, after all, I speak English so I say, “Jesus.” And someone else speaks Spanish, so they say, “Hey-zeus.” or another speaks Arabic, and they say, “Isa.” So there are many names for Christ, right?
Answer: God knows all things, but He also knows that the name that was revealed by Him was rejected for a substitute name not authorized by Him. The following Scriptures prohibit the use of any other name but the revealed name from Heaven. YAHSHUA is the revealed name commanded by God to be given to the Savior. It is an exclusive name and not to be changed. Acts 4:8 “Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, ‘Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of YAHSHUA the Messiah of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Therefore, choose this day that you will accept the one name given among men by which we must be saved! From these three names, Jesus, Iesus, and Iesous come all the substitute names unauthorized by God around the world. The essence of the Gospel tells us we stand condemned if we reject the revealed name of the Savior by accepting a substitute name instead. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Matthew 1:20 “But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name YAHSHUA, for He will save His people from their sins.’” Consider the prophet Isaiah, who wrote, “Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For YAH, the Lord, is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation’” (Isaiah 12:2 NKJV, which accurately translates from the Hebrew). Sing to God, sing praises to His name; Extol Him who rides on the clouds, by His name YAH, and rejoice before Him” (Psalm 68:4 NKJV). YAH is the essential name for our salvation as expressed in the name YAHSHUA, YAH=I AM, and shua=salvation.
Question: How do we know for sure that our Savior’s one and only true name that was given for our salvation is the name YAHSHUA?
Answer: Throughout the Hebrew and New Testament Scriptures, Christ our Savior is the LORD YAH (Isaiah 44:6-8, Christ is the Rock, 1 Corinthians 10:1-4). YAH means “I AM” (Exodus 3:13-15). YAH (I AM) is the name which is above every name (Philippians 2:9). Christ told the Jews that He is YAH, as in “I AM” (John 8:58). The apostle Paul encounters Christ on the Road to Damascus, and asks “Who are you Lord?” Christ replies in Hebrew His name (Acts 26). Paul identifies in the letter to the Philippians 2:9, “He has the name which is above every name.” An angel of the LORD comes to Joseph in a dream, and says, “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name YAHSHUA, for He will save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21). YAHSHUA means “I AM Salvation.” The apostle Paul was very clear that in every language His name is to be the same, “and that every tongue should confess that YAHSHUA the Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:11). Hebrew names very often consist of two elements: a verb and the name of God, in this case, יה (YAH), which is short for יהוה; YHWH or YaHaWaH, the living God of Israel. This name given to Moses means YAH=I AM, hawah=to be, as in ever-present, and so God’s name means I AM Ever-present.
Question: Where in the Hebrew Scripture does any of the prophets say, “He shall be called a Nazarean?”
Answer: It could not be found anywhere in the Scriptures that a prophet said, “He shall be called a Nazarean (or Nazarene). Therefore, we must take a closer look at the name Nazareth, and we found the following: Nazareth, isolated, generally supposed to be the Greek form of the Hebrew netser, a "shoot" or "sprout,” or “branch.” Matthew is telling us that He, Christ, is “the Branch,” as the prophets foretold. When we take a closer look at the word Nazarean (Nazarene) we find a meaning, a Hebrew meaning. This is what Matthew was telling us, that YAHSHUA is the Branch as spoken by the prophets. Isaiah 4:2, “In that day the Branch of the Lord shall be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and appealing for those of Israel who have escaped.” Isaiah 11:1 “There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
Jeremiah 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord {YAH}, “That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: ‘THE LORD {YAH} OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.’ 7 “Therefore, behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord {YAH}, “that they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord {YAH} lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ 8 but, ‘As the Lord {YAH} lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ And they shall dwell in their own land.” Jeremiah 33:14 ‘Behold, the days are coming,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah: 15 ‘In those days and at that time I will cause to grow up to David A Branch of righteousness; He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. Zechariah 3:8 ‘Hear, O Yeshua, the high priest, you and your companions who sit before you, for they are a wondrous sign; for behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH. Zechariah 6:12, Then speak to him, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, saying: “Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH! From His place, He shall branch out, and He shall build the temple of the Lord; 13 Yes, He shall build the temple of the Lord. He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on His throne; So He shall be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.”’
Therefore, the apostle Matthew was correct, “And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, ‘He shall be called a Nazarean.’” He shall be called the Nazarean, which means He is the Branch, YAHSHUA the Nazarean!
Gen 1, 26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
Let US make...
Try debating Tovier Singer with this interpretation of yours if you think it's right and see how you'd get shamed in public.
@@owlNolanJesus said in Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’"
"God" is usually used for the "Father" in this way if not further specified. Therefore the "Us" in Gen 1, 26 is the Father speaking to the Heavenly court in the tone and mode of concession. The Father created Man; but proclaimed it to all members of Heaven as clearly stated in Isaiah 46:10: that God declares the end from the beginning.
@@owlNolan
Kneel to trace picture children.
G is an incomplete whole with one square angle drawn in Earth.
O is a whole measure.
D is a split whole with two square angles drawn in Earth.
Sacrificed, Holy measured.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Trinity drawn to the one measure, as the word GOD is three pictures, measured in thirds of its objective whole relation, US.
Having being exposed to "oneness" doctrine early in my adult Christian walk it has taken me years of unlearning what I was taught. Dr Heiser teachings have been so helpful to me.
I think oneness position is biblical. "GOD was manifest in the flesh", "in Him dwelleth the fullness of the Diety", & " God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself". No separate beings, Just GOD being GOD and revealing Himself as the Savior.
@@adrianespinoza8016 p
@@adrianespinoza8016ow do you explain then that Jesus is not the Father and the Father is not Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is not Jesus or Father and yet Father is God, Jesus is God, Spirit is God. They are one and not separate. How do you explain that in the light of “oneness” theology then?
@Ilmar Meldre... I know it's tough, cuz I come from solid trinitarian background too. Isaiah 9:6 is good....Not that Jesus the man was God, but as the scripture says " God was manifest in the flesh" , " God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself " and In Him (Jesus) dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead.
I have just had to give the Oneness family I have to God and ask that he sort it out. Both of our sides are entrenched in their positions. The anecdotal issues I have with Oneness beliefs is self-righteousness rooted in legalism. Requirements for an outward sign of an invisible spiritual transaction is problematic for me as well. Most proof texts come from Acts a historical record not a doctrinal book like Romans.
I get goosebumps thinking about how the Angel of God stopping Abraham from kiIIing Isaac was Jesus himself in his pre-incarnate form, knowing it's going to be him instead 🥺
False doctrine, Jesus only appeared as the Son, the Flesh of God, the Begotten, he never came as an angel.
@@truthbomb27 Genesis 16:7-13/Judges 13:17-20 This is GOD ALMIGHTY the ALL SEEING GOD EL ROI JESUS/YESHUA
Jesus said that HE was in HEAVEn while speaking with Nicodemus on this immovable Earth. John 3
Praise the TRIUNE LORD ADONAI JESUS forever and ever.
Get your own teaching platform from buddy@@truthbomb27
I get goosebumps too when I am entertained by fiction.
Read Hebrews 1. God only revealed Himself through His Son in the first century.
All your teaching Dr Heiser brings so much healing. There is so much that I believed intuitively that you justify by solid Biblical knowledge. It helps a lot.
Thank you.
Dr Heise brings so many doctrinal errors and blatant lies.
Trinity in one verse of OT
“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me.””
- Isaiah 48:16 NKJV
Point out the 3 for me in this verse. I only see one.
@@moshemyym4627 blind don't see !
@@moshemyym4627 1. the Lord God, 2. And His Spirit 3. have sent Me. THREE
@@mycharmedunicorn8715 That's Yahweh Elohim and..."""HIS"" Spirit. ONE.
@@moshemyym4627 Hello. So, yes, the tri-unity of God is clearly spoken here by Isaiah. Read Isaiah 48:12-16 for a better context...
12“Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
13Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
They stand up together.
14“All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear!
Who among them has declared these things?
The Lord loves him;
He shall do His pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15I, even I, have spoken;
Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16“Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
[c]Have sent Me.”
^^^ Study these 4 verses and ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. These are profound verses showing all 3 Persons of the Godhead.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I don't find it confusing at all to contemplate God as being multifaceted and working in this earthly realm in a manner of ways...God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, The Angel of God....He's indescribably powerful and awesome!
That is 4 gods not One & its false. What is awesome about that. Instead of understanding the love of a Father and Son people have turned God and Jesus into some weirdo alien demonic teaching that no one can comprehend at all.
The entire point of sending Jesus was so that we could know God. People have utterly ruined the gospel.
THE WISE MAN BOUGHT A BIG BOOK FROM BARNES AND NOBLE, IT WAS A RATHER LARGE THICK BOOK, IT CONTAINED SOMEWHAT SMALL LETTERING,AN OLD SAGE TOLD HIM," LOOKING THRUGH THIS BOOK WILL MEAN ONE MUST EXHERT EFFORT AND TAKE THE TIME TO DISCOVER THE TRUTH HIDDEN WITHIN" ON THE FRONT WERE WORDS THAT READ" STRONGS BIBLE CONCORDANCE" FINALY, SAID THE WISE MAN HAPPILY , THIS BOOK NOT ONLY CONTAINS ANY AND EVERY SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE, BUT EVEN EVERY WORD FOUND IN EACH! AHH A PLACE WHERE I CAN FIND EVERYTHING ON THE "TRINITY" EVERY WORD IS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER AS WELL HE CHIMNED, THEN HE BEGAN HIS SEARCH HMMM... TRINITY TRINITY OH THERE! NOPE WHAT??? THE T"S END AT TROAS! TO HIS SHOCK , HE DISCOVERED THAT ,AT LEAST THIS TIME, "EVEN THE DEVILS KNOW THERE IS NO TRINITY, WHICH, STANDS TO REASON, "THE TRINITY" IS A DEVILS LIE! HE READ A SCRIPTURE THE OLD SAGE HAD TOLD HIM OF.. THOU BELIEVEST THERE IS ONE GOD, "THOU DOEST WELL" THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE AND TREMBLE JAMES 2;19 THE SCRIPTURE HE THEN REPEATED OUT LOUD FOR HOURS BEING STUNNED AND IN SHOCK WAS ACTS 2;38 BECAUSE UNDER BAPTIZM WAS EVERY BAPTIZM IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST EVER RECORDED! FINALY HE FOUND THE LIST ON THE WORD "SINNERS". AHA! THE SINNERS PRAYER WILL APPREAR AND I WILL BE VINDICATED, SINNER SINNETH WHAT ???? NO SINNERS PRAYER EITHER, UNDER "REMISSION " HE FOUND ACTS 2;38. HE MADE A BIBLICLY BASED DESCISION RIGHT THEN, TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND RECIEVE THE FREE GIFT OF GODS SPIRIT WITHIN HIMSELF, THE HOLY GHOST, AFTER FIRST REPENTING OF THE FALSE SINNERS PRAYER AND TRINITY OFCOURSE.
I think you hit the nail on the head. We are given some basics because we struggle with even that. The basics show us a clear picture of necessity of salvation through
Christ. That salvation is possible because God and Christ are one. How that happens, how that's possible, how the Spirit comes into the picture seems to defy explanation.
It takes me back to Paul TRYING to explain to us with - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12-2-4
Paul is desperately trying to explain something and then practically gives up. Trying to explain the workings of the heavenly for our earthly minds to grasp is near futile.
We see through a dark glass and we Bible studiers should keep that in mind.
@@SeerSeekingTruth I'm impressed with your comment.... and percieve that you know Jesus and that He has set you free from false doctrine including to doctrine of the trinity. Praise God!
This is because Isaiah - being a prophet - understood what THE 'son of man' is; and is the reason why Jesus always referred in the 3rd person to... 'the' son of man.
The 'son of man' is the 'spiritual gateway' or 'door' that is the 'access point' of a relationship with 'God'.
Jesus asks, "will the son of man find faith when he returns?", and again as always, in a 3rd person context, and accurately so as Jesus was referring to the 'spirit' that must be obeyed (by faith) in order to 'hear' the commands of God.
Notice in Ezekiel 2, where God says, 'son of man, STAND and I will speak with you.", and it is at this point that the spirit 'enters' Ezekiel and 'sets him on his feet'.
This is also demonstrated in the verses that speak of the Armor of God... whereby possessing (through work, study, and knowledge) one can build their spiritual 'armor', that they would be able to 'stand'... or to say, 'not lose faith', because of tribulation amd testing.
I love this explanation. God of Old Testament and New Testament is the same YHWH, YHWH revealed as the Savior (Yeh-shua) and Ruakh haKodesh!
Unfortunately the Roman trinity removed YHWH Jehovah from the heart of many
YHWH is Enlil ....... how do you feel about God now ??
@@sticky59 many debate on his name but don’t really know his ways or love him because many dont even know who he is
: YHWH is NOT YESHUA. YESHYA prayed to and worshiped YHWH. The Holy Spirit is an IT.
@@ewankerr3011 if you've read old testament you'll see that there're TWO YHWH persons in the play.
Dr. Michael S. Heiser
It is his theology that got me interested in the OT. I struggled to understand my place in Faith because I had many questions. Studying YHWH's interaction with humanity from a biblical, Hebrew, and Aramaic perspective gave me hope. He, along with other theologians, led me to seminary. Not because I wanted to be a preacher but to be exposed to the enormous body of knowledge about a God who chose to redeem His creation. Powerful stuff. May he rest until our LORD returns.
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the FATHER. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to MY GOD and your God'" - John 20:17
"Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani"? which means MY GOD, my God, why have you forsaken me"? - Matthew 27:46
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the FATHER except through me" - John 14:6
Deviating from these scriptures is why other religions regard us as polytheists.
The problem is the oddity - While we have statements like "his Holy Spirit" often we have to draw a self made conclusion about three in one. It's not easy because Jesus
states "God is spirit and those that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." So God the Father is already a spirit to begin with. Hebrews 12:9 calls God the
Father of spirits so there is already that facet of his being that is already spirit, but it gets more odd.
John 10:30 Jesus states "I and my father are one" why did he not mention the Holy spirit?
Isiah 9:6 states For to us a child is born, to us a son is given... And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
So Christ has both the name of Son and Almighty God - why does the verse not read something like "a son is given and his name will be, Mighty God, Holy Spirit, Prince of Peace etc.?
The only verse that specifically and verbally states that the three are one is 1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. AND THESE THREE ARE ONE
There's two issues with this -
1st a statement in black and white directly stating that three are one only happens once. Verses directly stating Christ is and God are one happens multiple times.
2nd 1 John 5:7 is iffy all on its own and is referred to as the Johannine Comma. "The comma is mainly only attested in the Latin manuscripts of the New Testament,
being absent from almost all Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, the earliest Greek manuscript being 14th century." So we see the statement doesn't even appear till
the 14th century.
So here's where it gets very odd and very confusing. There is another odd statement.
Revelation 4:5: ...there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 3:1: ...These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God
People quickly try to explain the seven spirits of God in a way that causes it to conform to their current beliefs. The problem with their teachings are that it's backward. Instead of the
meaning dictating belief, instead a preconceived belief dictates the teaching.
Here is my take away. God the Father is the Father of all and Christ is God in the flesh. When it comes to the Holy Spirit or the seven Spirits of God I simply teach what the Bible says
and am unable to draw a definitive conclusion. So far I don't see the need to draw a definitive conclusion as it does not undermine the foundation of Scripture or God or Christ.
From personal experience I found arrogance was a great hindrance to my study. I had this idea and notion that because I have the Bible I had all the knowledge of God at my fingertips.
Because I had the Bible I believed it contained EVERYTHING there was to know and as result I narrowed all my conclusions to the Scriptures in front of me. Revelation proves we don't
know all there is to know when the thunders uttered their voices and the angel told John "Do NOT write that down." We do not know what the thunders stated, that knowledge has been
concealed and we can thereby conclude from Scripture that the Bible does not tell us all there is to know. Let's be humble and kind
As a side note it's both saddening and spiritually disappointing to see just how rapidly believers in the comments respond to each other with animosity and aggression when some
teaching doesn't immediately align with their specific belief set. Many need to step back and realize that various "Bible fact perspectives" are Bible with a heavy dose of denominational
bias. Let God be true and every man a liar. Just because you believe your denominational leaders doesn't make them right or all knowing.
Check the story of Abraham interceding for Sodom and Gomorrah, I think it should start at Genesis 18.
Excellent stuff.
Hey Steven, I'm grateful to God for your testimony. Hope you are doing well.
@Coreficus ok, Baal hold your arms out and we will light you up !
Steven Bancarz: Let's let the Word of God prevail:
Isaiah 6, verses 1-7:
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 ¶ Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
Verse 1: Isaiah saw the Lord God sitting on His throne. *Problem* *#1* for y'all: The Lord God is embodied as only embodied beings *sit.*
Verse 2: Two Seraphs, special Angelic Sons/Servants are before the Lord God.
Verse 3: One of the Two Seraphs bears witness of the Lord God's holiness. This Seraph is the Holy Ghost.
Verses 4-7: The other Seraph forgives sins *and* calls prophets *and* sends them forth to preach. This is Premortal Jesus.
Isaiah saw *ALL* *THREE* *SEPARATE* *BEINGS* just as Moses had and much like Matthew recorded.
That scream and stampede for the exit is Mickey Heiser and all his once-giddy blindlings trying to cram their way out of the arena.
BTW: The only Church that accords 100% with Isaiah and all the other Biblical-era Prophets is The Church of *Jesus* *Christ* of Latter-day Saints.
Steven, your interviews on Remnant Radio and with Alisa Childers were such great teaching. They really helped my walk with Christ. Thank you so much!
Micah 5:2 Bethlehem Ephrathah although you are little out of you shall come One who will be King of Israel, whose going forth is from of old from everlasting.
This clearly talks of Jesus from being with God from eternity. You’re right, the deity of Jesus isn’t conjured it’s all over Old Testament.
Zechariah 13:7 Awake O sword against My Shepherd m, against the Man who is My Companion...
Yep
YH Wh
Micah 5:2 is referring to the only One of God, not to a second person or God.
@@approvedofGod Messiah you mean = Yeshua = Jesus!
Jesus is God, not a second god.
@@davidjanbaz7728
First of all, you did not apologize for saying that I don't have the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is God. There is no eternal God Son! That is a fabrication thanks to trinitarians.
@@approvedofGod yeah it’s referring to the one God, who is a plurality of persons. Then keep reading to verse 4, it says the ruler will come in the name of Jehovah his God. The Bible teaches a plurality in the One God, if you let the scriptures speak for itself and not twist it
Thanks Mike. I love these profound snippets of earlier teachings. If anyone is like me...forgetful...then they will also appreciate these beautiful nuggets of truth to help us remember to remember. All I can say is; "More!"
This isn't truth. Not at all.
@@SeerSeekingTruth saying something is one thing, and proving it is another. You haven't proven anything.
@SmallFridgeMinority I'm not sure what "umbilical" is... But it looks like your hands were faster than your head. 😆😆 Saying it and proving it are different things. All you've done is say it. That's great. Even I can say the opposite.
IF THE TRINITY DOCTRINE WAS SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO BELIEVE IN WHY ISN'T THAT EVEN MENTIONED RECORDED OR EXPRESSED IN SCRIPTURES BY THE WRITERS
@@carvellboyce6434 God didn't spell out many things in Scripture. As Peter adequately put it, "some things are hard to understand. Also, please turn off the caps lock. Thank you.
Is there a way to watch this full class?
I ask that about a lot of these brief videos!
I don't understand. So if God manifested as a angel shouldn't the Godhead be a quadrilateral being. Or when he manifested as the burning bush,... what about a Pentagon? God is everywhere and can manifest himself anywhere. What I find VERY strange is that the revelation of a triune God need to be so convoluted and complicated. Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff.
I can't believe the trinity because at the moment I need to take church word for it. I can pay lip service to the idea but then I am lying to myself and to everyone else. Much like most Christians do.
As a Christian of Jewish origin I can tell you that the doctrine of the trinity does not come from the Bible as is also clearly evident from the fact that some polytheistic peoples worshiped triunities. In Egypt, for example, they worshiped a triunity made up of three false gods called Ptah-Sokar-Osiris and the thing to note is that the idol that represented it was one, as can still be seen today in certain museums, therefore the so-called concept of three in one it does not come from the God of Israel. The Lord Jesus Christ is the God of Israel the Eternal Father and this is also clear if you compare John 2:19-21 and Galatians 1:1.
It is a man-made doctrine that was developed over a long time, starting in the years after Jesus and the apostles had left. The Christians in the first years believed in the 1 Lord God of Israel, YHVH. Just as Jesus and the apostles did. Jesus told us that his God and Father is the only true God. And the apostles believed in the same 1 Lord God. As do I.
@Thoska Brah Anyone that does not stand fully and firmly with the Word is not someone that I believe just because they make some claims. Christians are supposed to believe in Jesus and receive what he said and embrace that and stand with that. No ? So how can you claim to be Christian if you disregard what Jesus said ?
"For You granted him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all those You have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." (John 17:2-3) Jesus said as he looked Up to his God and Father. ....surely Jesus knows better than you ?
But that is not the case with so many, they think they know better than Jesus, and disregard what he said. And doing so without even hesitation. It is amazing to see it. And yet they call themselves Christian.
@@bosse641 Jesus picked the Apostles so how can you not believe them; especially Paul!
I and the Father are One. If you seen Me you’ve seen the Father.
@@radman6047 "I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in me, and I am in You. May they also be in us, so that the world may believe that You sent me." (John 17:20-21) the man Jesus said. ....so, because the true Christians are made one with God as Jesus was/is, we are also God ? You do not know what you are talking about. You have just been given talking-points, and those you regurgitate without having searched the truth out for yourself. Just as most claiming to be Christian do.
"Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know me? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on my own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in me, doing His work." (John 14:9-10) ....so there they could see God(Father) living and working in the man Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus is not the Father(God). God is spirit(John 4:24) And the only way they could see the Spirit was as He revealed Himself in the man Jesus. ...the Spirit gave him utterance and deeds to do.
And in that exact same manner does the Spirit operate in all His children (Romans 8:14) ...just because He lives and operates in and through them, does not make them God, but a tool for God, a servant of the Spirit. So it was with the man Jesus likewise. He could do nothing of himself he said (John 5:30)
As I said, you have no knowledge about what you are speaking. You are just regurgitating what you have been taught. And you do not even realize what you are doing. ....and most claiming to be Christian are just like you.
@@bosse641 In who's name did the disciples heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out demons? In God the Father's name? In the name of the Holy Ghost? No, in Jesus name only. Did they command the demons to come out in any other name than Jesus? No. Read Daniel 7:13-14. Who receives dominion and glory and an eternal kingdom from the Ancient of Days? In John 14:9 Jesus clearly says if you've seen Me you've seen the Father. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. John 10:30, I and My Father are One.
Could the phrase "the angel of his presence" in Isaiah 63: 9 be referring to Jesus?
YES. It's the preincarnate Christ
Yes 💯
You can make it whatever you want it to be. That's the beauty of obscure passages. That's how we end up with over 30,000 Christian denominations.
@@grasonicus no the text is clear. It’s just you’re biblical illiterate
@@tombfire6281 An unsubstantiated claim. "The angel of his presence" does not equal Jesus.
So Michael Heiser , You are suggesting that Every Jew who ever learned the Old Testament is Profoundly Ignorant of the Old Testament . You may not actually think that , but that's what it sounds like .
Psalm 118:14
. yāh wayhî lî lîšūāh.(Yah has become MY YESHUA) If Yahweh becomes Yeshua in the flesh There are not two Yahweh's , He is always ONE . It isn't 1+1=2 , it's 1x1=1 ( If you want to concede that the sevens spirits in Revelation Of Yeshua are then also added to a trinity then you have 10 spirits in your Godhead rather than 3. But again it isn't 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=10 spirits .It is 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1=1..The Elohim are not separate Spirits , They are Characteristic Powers of YHWH . And Yeshua is a Physical Manifestation of Yahweh . Since Yahweh is Not a Man when not in a Meat suit , He is also not a Person except when expressed as a Man . Seeing that John 1:10 states that Yeshua Created the Universe , and Genesis 1 show that Elohim Created the Universe ,Yeshua is ELOHIM and in Genesis chapter two Yeshua is YAHWEH ELOHIM .
numbers 23:19
Elohim(Powers) is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.(Mind being His SOUL which is YAHWEH...The" I" in I AM , is his SOUL or His Consciousness )
John 4:24
πνεῦμα ὁ θεός (Pneuma ha Theos) Elohim(Powers) is Spirit
Deuteronomy 6:4
šəma yiśrāêl; Yahweh ĕlōhênū Yahweh eḥāḏ (Hear Israel ,Yahweh our Power ,Yahweh is One)
Yahweh and Yeshua are the same Person , Seeing that whatever he puts his name in IS HIM . Yahweh can be in Multiple places at once , He can simulateously be in Shamayim and erets and simultaneously be Human and spirit and there are not Two Yahwehs , if that were so that would be Blasphemy .To suggest that Yahweh in Shamayim is of a Physical form is suggesting That he is Limited Dimensionally ,When he is Infinite . He is only limited That way when in Physical form .In a Body He is Vulnerable just as we are and can even be restrained to give a Blessing , or be crucified . You are just missing something , even as intelligent as you are .I watch you speak and I can tell when you are absolutely correct and I can also see when You are confounded by something and so you settle for what seems logical when You haven't really resolved it in your mind . Even an ELectron can Be in Two Places at The same Time and still be a single ELectron .
Echad is not singular. Adam and Eve are Echad! 2 persons but Echad 1.
@@P.H.888 Millions of Jews would disagree in reference to Yahweh . No point in Trying to convince me .I believe you are wrong , and trying to defend The Trinity . :) If you say The Trinity is 3 persons who are unique and separate from each other yet are 1 God ,then you must define what you mean by a Person . A "PERSON" is an entity with self awareness and has a soul / spirit , so if there are three persons in the Trinity then they are three separate SOULS/Spirits ..and in that case a Trinity is no different than the Hindu Godhead , and if you pray to each different "PERSON" That is Blasphemy , Especially if you have been made aware that this is what you are doing .
How can there be a trinity if Yeshua says the Father is greater? Doesn't Yeshua ask why call Him good, that only Yah is good. Shouldn't they be equal in a trinity? The pagans always have a trinity...why doesn't the New Testament teach the trinity?
The theologians that wrote the Catholic Encyclopedia admit that there is no Old Testament indication of a triune God, and very little in the New Testament that can be construed that way. They also admit that it was a product of tradition that evolved over four centuries. The RCC gives equal credence to tradition and scripture. In this case tradition is almost the whole criteria for this dogma, aside from a few scriptures that are wrenched out of context and misinterpreted, trying to give the idea legitimacy.
Isaiah says " grieved HIS Holy Spirit." The emphasis on HIS. Not grieved 'the' Holy Spirit
If you read the beginning of that, it's talking about the Lord and the Israelites rebelling against the Lord's Holy Spirit. Still The Holy Spirit chief.
Being ignorant of the Hebrew or Greek and making arguments from the English language translation is a poor argument.
Try getting an Theological education first which you don't seem to have.
Jesus is not the Holy Spirit and you can blasphemy the Holy Spirit ( a Spiritual person in the Trinity) but Jesus said you could speak against him and its different.
So they are not the same.
The Holy Spirit is a He not you're cousin it.
th-cam.com/video/0twZsqQYemw/w-d-xo.html
@Carlos Corona twisting!
@@wildbeast7375 What rancor, man, you Trinitarians are vicious. What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
I'm sorry but this is entirely circular reasoning. You can't use implicit texts to try and establish an explicit. You first need an explicit as a basis to project into an implicit, otherwise you just have a baseless projection. There are no explicit references to the concept of the trinity. The only way anyone comes to that conclusion is if they start with that conclusion and pre-project it into the texts being discussed.
Your comment is based on your conclusion. It's circular. You can do better. Peace
@@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe don't say stupid things 🤦🏼♂️ you don't know me. My conclusion is open mindedness, always. I'm up to being proved wrong, but i need a little thing called evidence. Yanno like Hebrews 11:1? One of the foundations of "faith". A truly objective approach asks "what does this information teach me about subject X". Me simply pointing out a major flaw in a commonly believed doctrine isn't circular. You wouldn't know circular if it came around and hit you on the back of your head. What you're doing is called "deflecting".
@@wjhssjhhrfmj I have a great deal of love and respect for Michael, but if we apply his reasoning every other time these types of things occur in scripture then we have plurality in humans as well. For example, compare the identical accounts of Matthew 8:5-13 with Luke 7:1-10. In Matthews account, it appears that the Gentile army officer approached Jesus directly and communicated with him, but if you read Lukes account, he sends the Jews and some of his friends to speak for him. If we apply the same logic and reasoning that Michael applies in those old testament accounts to this account, then we have the army officer, older men of the Jews, and his friends all being the same as a dual-head type thing. This is preposterous. What these two versions of the same account teach us is that in the ancient world, sometimes people communicated and acted *by means of* other people. So in the Old Testament it's perfectly acceptable for God to Act and Communicate *by means of* The Angel Of Yehovah, while at the same time the Angel can be referred to as God, even tho God himself wasn't directly there, the same as Matthews account refers to the the Jewish older men and the gentile army officers friends as being the army officer, since they were acting on his behalf. That's just how they did things in the ancient world. Michaels argument simply doesn't stand up under scrutiny.
If God almighty were in fact going against the norm, something vastly different, then he would make it explicit. "I know you guys are used to this type of thing, but not so with me, my existence is like this, there's 3 of us"... Etc, simply laying the concept out, establishing the concept. He's had a 66 book saga written for mankind, you would expect a single verse somewhere like "Yehovah is God Almighty, Yeshua is God Almighty, The Holy Spirit is God Almighty, These three are One God, Yet Three Persons". There is no description anywhere of three in one, or even two in one. God had the means and opportunity to easily and clearly communicate this if it really were part of his nature. But he doesn't. So i cannot accept it as anything more than a tradition of man.
@@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe Wow, the very way you are judging is the way you are judged. Let's examine this: What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
1 John 5:7 reads: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one...
.
.looks like the definition of the Trinity... And it's good enough for me.
Hey Dr Heiser, I try to make it simple in my mind by the holy Spirit being God's literal breath / wind since that appears to be the interpretation of what spirit is. Like when God spoke the world into existence. You can't speak without breath or wind. Or when God breathed into the church in the day of Pentecost like a rushing mighty "wind" Or when God breathed into Adam giving him life. It appears that when God speaks his breath / wind is the holy Spirit. Do you think this analogy is correct ? Thanks for all the awesome videos I appreciate it God bless.
No, its probably not correct.
First of all, just because a word has different meanings, it does not mean the meanings are interchangeable.
Secondly, God is immaterial, and he has no literal breath unless he wanted to create a breathe such as the breathe of Jesus incarnated. But that breath could not be the Spirit because the Bible says the Spirit is eternal (Heb 9:14)
Thirdly, the Hebrew and Greek words for spirit (ruach and pneuma) could also mean breath, yes, but they are not interchangeable. Altgough the Jews used the words ruach and pneuma, they didnt think of wind and spirit as interchangeable concepts. The Jews also believed in immaterial spirits ie demons (evil spirits) as well as the Holy Spirit, however they would never describe them as wind. I dont recall the gentiles thinking of spirits as literal wind either. Their is no reason to think the authors of the Bible, knowing they had those audiences, would use the words interchangeably either.
@@ea-tr1jh well that's not what the Bible says though. It said God breathed into Adam. Also the day of Pentecost God breathed into the church like a rushing mighty wind.. God also spoke things into existence. There's so many passages of speaking and breathing so I don't understand what you mean by God does not breathe..
@@justinsmitley7619 Its cant be literal though. God is immaterial. To suggest otherwise is to muddle what the Bible says.
If God is spirit, and spirit meant wind, then the Bible says God is wind. I guess all those demons are also wind. To suggest that the author meant demons and God are wind is absurd and to rip out of context the author's words.
@@justinsmitley7619 In the ancient world, spirits were immaterial. To suggest something is spirit means they are immaterial.
@@justinsmitley7619 But Adam and Eve existed before God breathed his spirit into his body.
I mean, without Dr. Heiser's scholarly insistence that the Angel of YHWH, in the Old Testament, is Jesus---I too would be "profoundly ignorant" of this (critically important) aspect of the OT---just as ignorant as are the "Jesus mythers."
Because many shepherds have led their flocks to the slaughter. They have not been good watchmen... And do not know the scriptures though they search them day after day.
Yahway in the Old Testament is one of the elohim. Not God Almighty. He demanded sacrifices and for destruction of people
Please ignore Michael’s teaching which is total falsehood on this issue
@@Thewatchman303 Ok, JJ. But only because you say so, and only because you say so without any corroborating evidence to support your assertion.
Assertions >>> scholarship. Life is actually VERY EASY.
@@seankennedy4284 buddy, I appreciate you do not know me so I understand your point. However, Please be rest assured that I am in the process of writing a full scriptural and I believe irrefutable rebuttal. I was just so outraged by his deception I had to speak out.
I used to believe that the Doctrine of the Trinity came from the Old Testament. But it DOESN'T. Yes, a plural God comes from the Old Testament. But there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the Old Testament that can be unequivocally identified as the "Father." Genesis starts off telling us that God is somehow plural -- the first sentence tells us that. Genesis talks about God (plural), the Spirit of God (i.e., the Holy Spirit), and the Lord God (which John would later identify as the Word). But that's all. No third person of the Trinity appears in the Old Testament.
I really appreciate some of what Dr. Heiser taught (may he rest in peace) but he seemed to have a blind spot concerning the trinity. He discredited himself by equating "I am" ego eimi with the Yahweh of the OT. The man born blind uses the same phrase in John 9:9.
Thanks for this teaching. The previous verse, Isiah 63:9 gets my attention to study as well. It uses the expression "the angel of his presence." To me this feels like another expression of "the Angel of the Lord." The angel of the Lord allowed people to worship Him whereas other angels would say don't worship me, I am not the Lord.
Exactly. Same angel in Gen 16 with Hagar as well
@@izyy868
El Roi, Amen. Also in Judges 13 , HalleluYAH.
GOD JESUS is TRI-UNITY and HIS people know that.😇
A Creator's manifestation, without a phisical body, can be called "angel" in the Bible texts.
@@marceloribeirosimoes8959
The Angel of YHWH, Who is YHWH HIMSELF was in some material form, but before around 2000 years the WORD became flesh. ADONAI is always existing as Tri-Unity : Father and Word and Spirit.
In Genesis 18 the LORD Himself with 2 angels |2 angelic beings| eat meal with Abraham, this is Physical appearance of God.
Lord Jesus bless His elect followers.🕊
@@vijdamvsichko9077 Hi, I hope you're doing marvelously well!
I am not here trying to make you change your mind about this subject but, I must say somethings.
You've said: *"In Genesis 18 the LORD Himself with 2 angels |2 angelic beings| eat a meal with Abraham, this is the Physical appearance of God. "*
Like I've said, you can only "see" a "trinity" in that passage because you've heard about a "trinity" BEFORE you are aware of that.
Did you notice that Abraham called "LORD" only ONE of those three men?
It seems you don't. And you ignore it just because the tradition inside of your soul is really deep.
That's what I call "lens". See?
More, did you ever notice that none of them made any miracles?
Two of them were almost raped and killed.
But, for this matter, Abraham recognized only ONE as his GOD.
He calls only ONE of them "LORD".
So now, let's use our "believers' " mind for this and ask ourselves: "My GOD can only express Himself in a limited number of men, women, fishes, crows, crickets, stars, etc.?"
Do you believe that your God has limits about the number of perceivable expressions HE is operating at the same time?
"Is anything too hard or too wonderful for the Lord?..." (Gen 18:14a)
Having this in mind, how many men did Simon Bajonah (we've learned to call him "Peter") and Yohannan (John) see when YESHUA showed them WHO HE IS (Mat 17:1-3) ????
Do you still believe that The Creator was showing us a "trinity"?
Do you remember when The Creator appeared to Moses?
Moses saw The Creator BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER.
A perfect hebrew way of thinking.
Do you understand what "eternity" means?
This means that there's no before or after. No tomorrow or yesterday.
So, The Creator made our dimension (TIME/SPACE/MATTER) plainly, working perfecly, the good and the evil, etc.
The Creator is NOT part of it nor is subject to anything around us.
If The Creator is a "three-person" god, why we can read those that were JEWS, and SAW and TALKED to HIM in the flesh, mentioning only TWO of those three many many times?
That's simple.
The Bible talks about the history of The Creator's salvific works, step by step.
And that's WHY we can't read about "Jesus" (literally) before His birth.
We can only read those that "then" knew that The Creator came as He said He would, and they call Him by the name they knew "YESHUA" to make us understand it - He is NOT another one, or a second person from a triune-god (like many triads from paganism); Yeshua is The invisible Creator here among us!!!
That's the objective, that's the main goal.
The Creator did not outsource his saving work!!!
HE says, "Who has prepared and done this, calling forth and guiding the destinies of the generations [of the nations] from the beginning? I, the Lord-the first [existing before history began] and with the last [an ever-present, unchanging God]-I am He." (Is 41:4)
The same!
HE is "HE" (that one)!
The same message when HE was here, trying to make people recognize Him.
See?
Well, I hope you start to read your Bible trying not to presume what it says...
"So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead." (Ef 4:14)
Any coincidence between these texts and the religious people, including those who invented a triune god to embrace as many pagans as they could?
"Jesus mythers" lol. Love how he cut that down to size.
Don't be one!
@@davidjanbaz7728 Don't worry. I debate atheists, I don't follow them.
like "Trinity mythers?"
@@ken440 Well Ken, all I can say is, we're not here watching your video, are we?
Jesus mythers are big mad at Heiser. ❤️
One of my issues with Trinitarians is the fact that "Trinity" is not in the bible. So why do we even use this word. We should only say what's in the Bible right?
No, wrong.
@@Jus4kiks so saying exactly what’s in the Bible is wrong? Don’t be ignorant
Why does one have to read into the Hebrew scriptures the doctrine of the Trinity in vague passages?
If the the Trinity is true - and that would make it the most important doctrine in scripture - why isn't there a single passage in the entire Hebrew scriptures that EXPLICITLY attests the doctrine of the Trinity?
@@faithnreason446that's not an explicit passage. It's a vague passage. That's exactly my point.
@@faithnreason446 the Jewish interpretation is that this is Isaiah speaking, by the way it doesn't say he was sent by the spirit of God, it says, "The LORD sent me and his spirit."
It's vague because you will only argue that it implies the Trinity. It is not an explicit declaration of the Trinity. That is my point! I repeat, there isn't a single passage in the entire Hebrew scriptures that EXPLICITLY declares the Trinity. On the contrary, there are numerous passages in the Hebrew scriptures that attests to the monotheism of God, such as Deuteronomy 6:4 that says that God is one, not three in one.
What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20
YOu know the Father and SOn, but Clearly the person you dont know or understand is the Holy Spirit. Jesus said he would send the helper. The clear process you know your being saved is if you hearing from God. The Holy Spirit will not speak to you, if you dont have a repentant heart. Do you understand what it means to pick up your cross daily and make Jesus you're lord and savior? As a Warning God tells us what he wants, even when you want to do the opposite. If you continue you ignore God, he will not speak to you. In your spirit, you are compelled to want to follow God. The Bible was written by Men filled with the Holy Spirit. You should only interpret the lens of the Bible, through the Holy Spirit. God's will is perfect, if i can list the cons from a theology, its most likely not true.
Sinning against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable. This clearly states he is God! Stop twisting the Scriptures to fit your narrative, you're messing with God. When it comes to learning about the BIble i only listen to teachers who are filled with the Holy Spirit.
Listen how they explain things in circles just to prove their belief. Interpreting verses on their own. Do they still hear Jesus? Jesus said: And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God. John 17:1,3. There are many requirements to go to heaven and have eternal life. One of those is to believe that The Father is the only true God. That is from Jesus. What do the apostles say after Jesus taught them that? 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God And Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Well, my God is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. Even Jesus said it himself. John 20:17. Those who dont listen to Jesus, they will never know the truth. All of their trinity doctrines will be forever in parables.
@@michi-bi Why judge me? You do not know me. If I speak the truth of God's word, believe me, but if I do not, then witness to me from God's word of truth. What I have written is true, if not tell me why not.
@@michi-bi “But even if you should suffer for righteousness sake, you are blessed. And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed” (1 Peter 3:14-16). How does one defend something that God never revealed to be true, and only exists as a (Trinitarian) doctrine because men gathered in two Councils (the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE & the Council of Chalcedon in 381 CE) with the audacity of defining God? Theologians admit that the Trinity is “beyond the grasp of human reason” (THE ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA, Vol. 27, “The Trinity,” 1980).
“Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament…The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies… It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single Orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons” (see “Trinity”, THE NEW ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA, Vol. 11, p. 928, 1985 ed.). In other words, the God of the Bible has never been revealed to be a Triune God, a Trinity. Christianity had no concept of God being a Trinity until the 4th century when bickering men defined God. Apostolic “Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds” of the 4th-century church (see “God”, THE NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Vol. 2, p. 84).
If one must believe in the Trinity doctrine to be saved, what of the early Christians who knew nothing of the doctrine of the Trinity up to the 4th century CE?
Historian writer H.G. Wells, stated: “There is no evidence that the apostles of Christ ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from him” (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499).
Martin Luther, of the Protestant Reformation, in a documented sermon preached, “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man” (THE SERMONS OF MARTIN LUTHER, Vol. 3, p. 406).
Scriptural pillars of the Trinity are Matthew 28:19, and 1 John 5:7, and these verses are considered by scholars to be interpolations, that were added later to the Bible.
Scholars such as F. C. Conybeare have claimed that the Trinitarian baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 was not original to the text of Matthew, and therefore is, in fact, an interpolation. Christ never said, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit…” (Matthew 28:19). In other words, was the phrase in the text "In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" inserted at a later date (say, for example, after the Council of Chalcedon in AD 381)? The correct reading of Matthew 28:19 appears to be in the Gospel of Luke, “Then He said to them, ‘Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem’” (Luke 24:46-47).
According to the church historian, Eusebius, he quotes Christ saying in Matthew 28:19, in his book: “Go and make disciples of all the nations in My name” (Eusebius, THE HISTORY of the CHURCH, p. 68, Penguin Classics, 1965).
This explains why the disciples of Christ never baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Proving that Christ’s quote in Matthew 28:19 is not original.
The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19, as it presently stands is in direct contradiction with all of these passages:
[Acts 2:38 NASB] “Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
[Acts 8:12 NASB] “But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.”
[Acts 10:48 NASB] “And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.”
[Romans 6:3 NASB] “Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?”
[1 Corinthians 1:13 NASB] “Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”
[Galatians 3:27 NASB] “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” The original Matthew 28:19, “Go and make disciples of all nations in My name,” conforms. The conspiracy to change the words of Christ in Matthew 28:19 to bolster the Trinity doctrine also included the Didache (7:1), and all church writers previous to the 4th century. Despite the Orthodox/Roman Catholic thoroughness to conform all writings of the early church, they overlooked Eusebius’ History of the Church, and the conspiracy continues to this day!
Followers of Christ are to make disciples in His name, as He commanded, “...that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations…” What is the revealed name of the Savior? Does it matter? The apostle Peter testified, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Historian Ernest Renan makes it clear that the Savior was never in His lifetime known as Jesus (Ernest Renan, The Life of Jesus, p. 90).
@@myghtxx5600 “But even if you should suffer for righteousness sake, you are blessed. And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed” (1 Peter 3:14-16). How does one defend something that God never revealed to be true, and only exists as a (Trinitarian) doctrine because men gathered in two Councils (the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE & the Council of Chalcedon in 381 CE) with the audacity of defining God? Theologians admit that the Trinity is “beyond the grasp of human reason” (THE ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA, Vol. 27, “The Trinity,” 1980).
“Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament…The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies… It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single Orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons” (see “Trinity”, THE NEW ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA, Vol. 11, p. 928, 1985 ed.). In other words, the God of the Bible has never been revealed to be a Triune God, a Trinity. Christianity had no concept of God being a Trinity until the 4th century when bickering men defined God. Apostolic “Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds” of the 4th-century church (see “God”, THE NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Vol. 2, p. 84).
If one must believe in the Trinity doctrine to be saved, what of the early Christians who knew nothing of the doctrine of the Trinity up to the 4th century CE?
Historian writer H.G. Wells, stated: “There is no evidence that the apostles of Christ ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from him” (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499).
Martin Luther, of the Protestant Reformation, in a documented sermon preached, “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man” (THE SERMONS OF MARTIN LUTHER, Vol. 3, p. 406).
Scriptural pillars of the Trinity are Matthew 28:19, and 1 John 5:7, and these verses are considered by scholars to be interpolations, that were added later to the Bible.
Scholars such as F. C. Conybeare have claimed that the Trinitarian baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 was not original to the text of Matthew, and therefore is, in fact, an interpolation. Christ never said, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit…” (Matthew 28:19). In other words, was the phrase in the text "In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" inserted at a later date (say, for example, after the Council of Chalcedon in AD 381)? The correct reading of Matthew 28:19 appears to be in the Gospel of Luke, “Then He said to them, ‘Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem’” (Luke 24:46-47).
According to the church historian, Eusebius, he quotes Christ saying in Matthew 28:19, in his book: “Go and make disciples of all the nations in My name” (Eusebius, THE HISTORY of the CHURCH, p. 68, Penguin Classics, 1965).
This explains why the disciples of Christ never baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Proving that Christ’s quote in Matthew 28:19 is not original.
The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19, as it presently stands is in direct contradiction with all of these passages:
[Acts 2:38 NASB] “Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
[Acts 8:12 NASB] “But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.”
[Acts 10:48 NASB] “And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.”
[Romans 6:3 NASB] “Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?”
[1 Corinthians 1:13 NASB] “Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”
[Galatians 3:27 NASB] “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”
The original Matthew 28:19, “Go and make disciples of all nations in My name,” conforms. The conspiracy to change the words of Christ in Matthew 28:19 to bolster the Trinity doctrine also included the Didache (7:1), and all church writers previous to the 4th century. Despite the Orthodox/Roman Catholic thoroughness to conform all writings of the early church, they overlooked Eusebius’ History of the Church, and the conspiracy continues to this day! Followers of Christ are to make disciples in His name, as He commanded, “...that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations…” What is the revealed name of the Savior? Does it matter? The apostle Peter testified, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Historian Ernest Renan makes it clear that the Savior was never in His lifetime known as Jesus (Ernest Renan, The Life of Jesus, p. 90).
In reading the comments, I can see that there are those whom have not listened to the concepts you teach or read your books!
have you ever read the revelation of Abraham. and the testament of Moses
@@enoch7thadam1st2 Yh carry on
I didn't need his books to understand Michael is correct. I've been studying the OT for years. It was then I realized that the NT is an extension of the OT. Most of what is written in the NT comes from the OT or is fulfillment of OT prophecy. There are 3 aspects of God, in one God --- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are people who simply can't wrap their minds around it. One of the most common questions is, if Jesus is God, then how or why would he be praying to himself in Gethsemane? Answer, he is also the Son in the flesh. We are talking about an omnipresent God who is everywhere at the same time.
@@kimberlyboldt5213
God is everywhere? Is God in hell too?
If god is e eryqhwre, then you have limited God, or gave him a shape or a description, God becomes a machine, God becomes jesus .
This is why the trinity is a herecy a blasphemy. In your guts and everyone guts God is unlike anything else you can possibly imagine, you say sometimes that God is in heaven, hes not I heaven we say that because we dont know better to say.
Fix your belief and you should be ok.
@@tryemc3026 That is an uneducated response. Your own words betray you. You have not read, studied or understood the scriptures in any way shape or form. How do you expect to have intelligent discussion when you haven't even studied the subject matter? Furthermore, you are ignorant in the sciences, and how God operates in the universe. I've spent 30 years in the subject matter. If you want to argue scripture, you are welcome to debate me.
This is historically inaccurate. The doctrine of the Trinity does not come from reflection on such OT texts as Dr Heiser mentions in this video. Where does Athanasius or Gregory of Nazianzus- or any of the other scholars who constructed the Trinity- refer such OT verses? The doctrine of the Trinty emerges out of reflection on soteriology: Christ has saved us by uniting us with God. But this means that Christ cannot be a mere intermediate between God and man since only God can unite us with himself. Therefore, Christ must be God, otherwise we are not “saved” by being united with God since no finite being could join us to the infinite. So, from a historical point of view, how do you prove your thesis?
Actually, the fathers got the Trinity from biblical texts. The reasoning goes like this: “…believe the works”. If I do the works of God, then I am God. All the fathers took Jesus at his word.
@@brenthorne8784 This is simplistic (in the extreme). Most of the Church Fathers _before_ Athanasius and the Cappadocians were subordinationists, such that they held that Jesus is "god' but not "the God" (in Greek there is a difference between theos and ho theos, i.e., God with or without the definite article: the first is 'divine' but not God in the absolute sense of the term). And, moreover, the NT texts are much more complex than you're suggesting.
@@bayreuth79 No. It’s what they actually did. There was never a suborinationist trend among the orthodox. Ever. Jesus is God. The Spirit is God. That’s what the scriptures say and that’s what Christians believe. www.ctsfw.net/media/pdfs/BeckwithTrinityandtheBible.pdf
@@brenthorne8784 I am afraid that you are mistaken. Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, Hippolytus, Justin Martyr and Novatian were all subordinationist. You can ask any serious professor of theology who accepts the doctrine of the trinity and they will affirm what I just said. Athanasius and the Cappadocians in the 4th century were seen as innovators; and in a sense they were innovators. The logic of the Cappadocians was this: if Jesus is not fully God (as the Father is fully God) then he cannot unite us to God: only God can united us to God, therefore Jesus, who unites us to God, must be fully God. Doctrine develops over time. I suggest that you find some well respected Trinitarian theologians and ask them for yourself. No one with an MA or a PhD in Theology will be ignorant of what I wrote above.
@@bayreuth79 No sir. You’re getting your terms confused. Re-read your remarks above on John. You’re making the JW argument. That’s Arian. You don’t need the definite article with the proper noun. That doesn’t mean that there is an indefinite article implied. Jesus is fully God. Always was. Always is. That’s always been the orthodox position and anything less than that is heterodox. By the way, I have an MDiv. You can’t allude to complexities in the scriptures. Christ’s deity is pretty clear. The argument that I mentioned above was fundamental to the father’s understanding
The Trinity wasn't invented by the RCC. It was part of pagan worship. So much so that God had warned the Israelites against borrowing it from the nations around. Deuteronomy 6:4.
Constantine who oversaw the Nicean Council was a pagan. He got this Trinity concept 'Chritianized'. Similar being Christmas.
Paul had forewarned about twisted teachings coming in with a Christian label. Acts 20:30.
The Trinity doctrine was adopted at the Nicaea Council as the official doctrine of the state-supported Catholic Church, it went through some modifications so we have that doctrinal lie now to deal with. The apologists argue that God is one, but the average person sees it as a God of 3 persons, which is a lie. The apologists only give lip service to the idea of one God. I am a candidate to be burned at the stake as a heretic by the Roman Catholic Church.
You believe the Father and Son are the same person? And also the Spirit?
(person doesn't mean hands, legs and feet, I assume you know that tho)
@@Jus4kiks The Son represents the Body of God Almighty. He is the firstborn of the dead. All the first and second resurrections are Joined to that Body through Christ Jesus. If we have been born of the Spirit according to Acts 2:38 we are part of the body of Jesus Christ. See Acts chapters 8, 10, and 19.
I honestly just want to know where you got that table/podium/thing from...
Are The Angel of The Lord and Yahshua the same? Are they both the Word?
Yes the Angel of the Lord is the Pre-Incarnate Word of God (Jesus Christ)
@Jooha We The Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in the burning bush, and to Abraham when he was to sacrifice Isaac yet calls himself God to both Abraham and Moses
This isn't Mormon or Jehovah's Witnesses rhetoric
@Jooha We th-cam.com/video/BNt5NKSse0Y/w-d-xo.html&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
@Jooha We th-cam.com/video/EkertNFbLwY/w-d-xo.html&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
@Jooha We Angel means messenger. So the "Angel" if he is worshipped if regarded as being divine as the Angel of the Lord is.
Check out the videos I sent to you
Wow I wonder what Rabbi Singer would have to say about this. The Rabbi always pushes the idea that the Trinity was completely dreamed up.
Yahuah (H3068) is Yahusha (H3091). Yahusha told Philip, "Have I been with you so long Philip, and you have not recognized Me? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you ask, 'show us the Father?'" Philippians 2 also confirms Yahuah is Yahusha, to the esteem of the Father. Constantine at Nicaea in 325 adopted the trinity concept by-way-of the philosophy of pagans (Athanasius of Alexandria).
In Apologetics we use this rule: The principle of the harmony of Scripture (or, Scripture interprets Scripture): “no part of Scripture can be interpreted in such a way as to render it in conflict with what is clearly taught elsewhere in Scripture” (RC Sproul). I agree with this Christian even though Christianity does NOT follow its own acceptance of this rule.
Therefore when you say "John saw that the ONE WHO SPOKE TO HIM WAS THE "SON OF MAN" - Rev 1:12,13" Then it means you can differentiate between the Son of man and the Almighty? Correct? And how are they different? Can the son of man be the Almighty? If we have to stick to the rule of harmony then he cannot be the Almighty Eloheem since it would contradict what Yahuah has said Of HIMSELF at least 89 times ALREADY BEFORE including this verse concerning the "Son of Man". Do you want to make him a liar and the son of man a liar too to make your false Catholic doctrine fit? It is fitting that Yahuah says HE DOES NOT LIE in case we forgot.
"Numbers 23:19
Eloheem is not a man, that he should lie; neither the *son of man, that he should repent...
The Scriptures Refute "Jesus is God" by Declaring Yah'ushua (pw Jesus) as the "Son of Man"
According to Matthew 1:1, Yah'ushua (pw Jesus) is the SON OF ELOHIM, the SON OF DAVID, SON OF ABRAHAM. He is a man, but most importantly he is the SON OF MAN. Every time this term is mentioned referring to Yah'ushua we remember that Elohim (pw God) has already categorically stated that the Son of Man is NOT Elohim according to Numbers 23:19 as above.
In the (REC) Renewed Everlasting Covenant (pw New Testament) it is said 89 times!
Mat 8:20 (KJV) And Yah'ushua (pw Jesus) saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Mat 9:6 (KJV) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Mat 11:19 (KJV) The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Mat 12:8 (KJV) For the Son of man is Master (pw Lord) even of the sabbath day.
Mat 12:32 (KJV) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mat 12:40 (KJV) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 13:37 (KJV) He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:41 (KJV) The Son of man shall send forth his malakhim (pw angels) , and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;................."
etc., etc., see my book as I cannot fit all the 89 verses (Mat Mark Luke Acts and Rev) in here
From my free book on my website "Why Jesus is not God / Why Yahushua is not Eloheem"
I've enjoyed the clip. But one question: What about John 15:26, where Christ is clearly stating that Holy Spirit comes out of Father?
He sends it throught Father. So all hypostases participate with another.
There is a progression going on here, especially in the book of John, where Jesus is building up to the fact that He is the Father, come in flesh. In John 14:26, He says the same thing He says in 15:26, only He says the FATHER will send the Spirit _in my name_ so, putting those two verses side by side, you can see that He is in fact the Father.
Jesus makes virtually all of the most significant statements from both points of view, as Father & as Son. For instance, in John 14 He says _no one comes to the FATHER except through ME. Previously, in chapter 6, He said _no one can come to ME unless the Father draws him._ The Lord knew there would be evil men & institutions promoting the Trinity so He spoke the scriptures in such a way that these liars would twist them, by the arrogance of the accuser, rather than attempting to destroy them. Now, all these thousands of years later, He has a collection of saints who have believed the Truth because they seek HIM - not religious doctrines of men & devils, like the Trinity.
*_God Bless All who Believe and may the Lord open the eyes of many in Jesus of Nazareth's name, Messiah of all humanity._*
Can anyone tell me where I can find the full version of this? I've just discoverd Dr. Heiser from listening to Ryan Pitterson. I'm really enjoying this!
The students who paid to take his class have access to the full version.
The Holy Spirit was not officially added to the Trinity by the Roman bishops until the First Council of Constantinople in 381. Quite late.
And yes, the Holy Spirit is personified in the Old Testament... But so is God's Wisdom.
The "Wisdom of God" is personified as a female figure, often referred to as "Lady Wisdom," primarily in the book of Proverbs and a few other wisdom literature books of the Old Testament.
(See Proverbs 8:1-36, for example. God's Wisdom is referred to again and again as a female personage, "she." Certainly, she is not part of the "Godhead.")
This personification does not mean that the Wisdom of God is a literal separate person. The Wisdom and Spirit both come from God the Father. Everything comes from God the Father. He is timeless. He is the beginning of all things.
Its completely False to claim that either in the OT or the NT it somehow 'teaches the trinity'! I offer this poster, £1000 if he can show me just ONE bible verse that states, not necessarily the 'trinity' but "There are three persons in one God" OR "God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit". Please dont quote a bible verse with 'three' in it as there are more that say "two"! Also just the mention of the 'Father and the Son & the Holy Spirit ( Matt 20:19) doesnt prove the 'trinity'! Because that is NOT the 'trinity'! (Abreham, Isaac & Jacob' are mentioned a number of times in the bible! Abreham came BEFORE the other two!. I wont accept 'implications' or 'suggestions' e.t.c I stick to BIBLE TRUTH! and dont accept post apostolic religious philosophers take on who 'God' is! ( see Acts 20:28-30 a good read!)
What I don't understand is why it matters. God is one. So if I pray to Jesus, I pray to God. If I feel the Holy Spirit, I feel God. If I judged by the Father, then I still am judged by God. So why not just God? What is the advantage of the symbolism of a triplicity?
It matters because we must know God and His revelations. What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
@@S.R.M.you really need to learn how to use paragraphs.
@@goatsmiserable555 That's your takeaway? Paragraphs? I hope that you become more sincere about the truth of Christ.
God gave us His word to reveal Himself to us correct? Using only the words (bible) that God used to describe Himself, explain the trinity. The bible warns us of adding to God's word so when you say the Jesus is "god the son" or the "2nd person" in the Godhead, and the bible doesn't, you're adding to the word of God.
Very true I keep saying the same thing
Oh okay so using YOUR LOGIC, God is not omnipotent, since there is no “omnipotent” word in the Bible
@@Avram-gj6og wrong bc l can describe God being omnipotent without using that word, but you can't describe God being "triune", a non biblical word, without using more non biblical words. The bible doesn't state what you claim the nature of God to be, but it does state exactly what l claim the nature of God to be. I can use the bible alone to describe the Godhead, you can't without using more phrases and words that the bible never uses to describe the Godhead.
@@brianbieler3836
First of all, could you describe your view of the Godhead if i may know?
@@Avram-gj6og God is one and there's only one God.
This is great Dr. Heiser, thank you !
Please consider the true meaning of Isaiah 63:10. As a teacher of the word, I feel you are in difficult waters here. IS 63:10 "They rebelled against His (ownership ) Holy Spirit." They rebelled against their God's holy spirit. If there is any question as to the meaning, the parallel passage clears it right up - PS 40 How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve HIM in the desert! "Holy Spirt" is not even in the text. It is quite a jump to add to the passage and include additional commentary to hijack the intended meaning and add another meaning. And there is twice the danger in rewriting the text of the holy scriptures to insert an idea that you hold, and one that is not present in the text. I am certain that this commentary will be deleted, but please, for your own salvation, consider what you are doing here. Read the text: preach the text, unedited. Did you add a Jesus bubble to reinforce your ideas? The only place the Name Jesus appears in the Old Testament is in your added commentary. You are sealing your eternal fate here, and taking so many down with you. Please at least take another look at your work.
Why is it so difficult for people to understand trinity! Is it hard for God to be million or billion let alone three states?
Ice ,liquid,oxygen can exist as one substance and still be distinct.shouldn’t be a Problem For God
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, and God said, "Let there be Light". God, The Word and The Spirit at Creation
Oh yes, this oldie slogan. Like a broken record from many muslims and oneness'. Great video, Dr. Heiser!
@jonney tango your so lame: lmbo!
You're following the true antichrist: the god of this world: haSatan!
@jonney tango you have a lot going on in that comment, just wondering though, what do you mean by a Satanic Jewish Bible? Are you referring to the mesoretic text which is what the King James and Vulgate (Latin catholic bible) and translated from? If that is what your referring to why do you say the mesoretic text is a “satanic Jewish Bible”? I just don’t know what you mean by that, thanks.
@jonney tangoJewish Satanic Bible???
Ah you mean the Satanic verses of Muhammad !
The real Satanic Bible is by Aton La Vey !
Friend of Richard Ramirez who died in San Quentin.
Google them!
@jonney tango you are very mixed up. Perverting the name of Christ is exactly what Satan wants you to do. You’re listening to the wrong people. 1 God, 3 persons, Jesus is God sent to Earth as a sacrifice for all sin. If you don’t put your faith in Him, you cannot see Heaven as He states in the NT. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me.
th-cam.com/video/0twZsqQYemw/w-d-xo.html
We can’t help but see EVERYTHING from our own very limited physical perspective...but can embrace the totally unlimited ability of our Creator to manifest himself in infinite ways, most of which are beyond our understanding and experience. Only when we take the godly role of Bride and conform to Him in all our ways with all our being do we begin to gain a spiritual understanding of just who and what our Creator really is...after He is living IN US, undistracted by sin and transformed into His likeness-something that will not be complete until He returns as King and we will be with Him and LIKE HIM, which is only possible in small measure for any human within our temporary physical existence. 🕎❤️✝️
So where is the proof in the Bible that God the Creator is the same Yahweh, who introduced Himself to Moses on the Mount ? Why is it that Enoch was able to walk and converse with the God even walk into Heaven with Him (if God the Creator and Yahweh are the same) but Yahweh ( I am here now ) had to present Himself as a burning bush to Moses ?
Not going to argue, just a sincere question, thanks
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Precisely.... there is no trinity in that, is there, but there is one God who had a Son. Praise God.
I love your teaching. It's biblical, it's amazing. May God bless you and your family.
@@voiceinthewilderness5785?
@@voiceinthewilderness5785 didn't write what? You need to be more articulate.
I’m equally perplexed! That comment might not have belonged there.
@@voiceinthewilderness5785 oh, ok
Yeah couldn’t make head or tail of it myself! Thank you for pointing it out, I removed it.
From what I understand, there was never any need for translators to capitalize the "Holy Spirit." It is not a name, rather the means by which God operates. It is the spirit OF God, I.e. God's spirit. Jesus is said to be the visible image of the invisible God. Jesus was also the means by which God created all and died and rose for all and showed himself to all. The Istaelites always maintained that "our God is one God, not 3. 3 offices yes, 3 different people? I think not. I personally have never agreed with the traditional view of a trintiy to explain God.
you’re mixing up your words. “The Israelites always maintained that ‘our God is one God’, not 3.” Who said 3 gods? YHWH is one God, but the 3 within YHWH aren’t the same. Is your body the same as your mind and those the same as your spirit? No, but they all function within you making you who you are. Apply that to God, much more complex of course, and VOILÀ, you have one God.
@@footsoldier1188 does not Christendom state that God is three in one? That was the point I was trying to make. The Trinity for the most part teaches "3 persons." Nowhere is this expressed in the OT or the NT for that matter. How does an invisible God who is invisible spirit reveal himself? "In the face of Christ.” Jesus surely then is the relatable express image of a God who cannot be related to by physical means. No need for a trinity, a function as you said yes, I agree.
@@cupofshutupjuice they are three persons. The Father cannot be the Holy Spirit or Jesus. Again, was the Father well pleased with His flesh during Jesus baptism? You simply don’t like the terminology used to describe the triune nature of God. To be blunt you just gotta get over it man. No other way to explain God.
“The three persons are distinct, yet are one substance, essence or nature”
@@cupofshutupjuice “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
THREE THAT BEAR RECORD. NOT “THREE TITLES”, but THREE. And they are ONE. Trinity. Godhead.
@@footsoldier1188 Unfortunately you have quoted the portion of scripture known to scholars as "The Johannine comma." It was never in the scriptures prior to the 14th century or so. No doubt someone had an axe to grind. I understand that you may think that "the trinity" is a settled doctrine in Christianity. History shows that it never has been. Christianity's biggest divisions have come from it. Did you know there are over a dozen versions of the trinity? I wonder which one is right? Jesus never corrected Thomas when he asked him who he was. Thomas answered "you are my Lord and my God. Jesus was dumbfounded when his disciples asked him to show them the Father - They of course, were looking at him - God in human form. Jesus always maintained that "he did nothing of himself" and that it was God that "did the works in him." If only we would believe it.
Thank you. God has blessed you with wisdom from above to explain all this. Love listening to your teachings. Blessings
Rozanna Mahmood: Let's let the Word of God prevail:
Isaiah 6, verses 1-7:
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 ¶ Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
Verse 1: Isaiah saw the Lord God sitting on His throne. *Problem* *#1* for y'all: The Lord God is embodied as only embodied beings *sit.*
Verse 2: Two Seraphs, special Angelic Sons/Servants are before the Lord God.
Verse 3: One of the Two Seraphs bears witness of the Lord God's holiness. This Seraph is the Holy Ghost.
Verses 4-7: The other Seraph forgives sins *and* calls prophets *and* sends them forth to preach. This is Premortal Jesus.
Isaiah saw *ALL* *THREE* *SEPARATE* *BEINGS* just as Moses had and much like Matthew recorded.
That scream and stampede for the exit is Mickey Heiser and all his once-giddy blindlings trying to cram their way out of the arena.
BTW: The only Church that accords 100% with Isaiah and all the other Biblical-era Prophets is The Church of *Jesus* *Christ* of Latter-day Saints.
@@joshuaconnelly2415 i dont see how you get that Jump that the Seraph is forgiving sin. That passage is sin being paid ie. the coal.
Very unconvincing. Nowhere in the OT do you have God addressed as three persons. You may as well say that there is Yahweh and there is His mighty arm, and His strong breath. Likewise if the angel (actually mal'ch = messenger) says or does something in the name if God, then it's not a "second person" in the Godhead but God's action.
Mr Heiser, why Jesus sent his apostles in Matthew 28:19, to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
Sorry Dr. Mike. I love your work on divine council and have taken that on board and I spread it as wide as I can to a stupified traditional taught church. However I disagree on your plurality of God.
My understanding:
Dr. Heiser has a blind spot with his own teaching where he teaches an "Angel" is a messenger (that i thank him for). That is the definition or "job description" (Mikes own words) of Angel. And that messenger represents God. Angels are plenipotentiaries. (look that up in a dictionary)
Then when Mr. Heiser wants to support the trinity he brings out the Angel of the Lord from OT and claims this is a second YHWH figure, where in the text it says "angel of The Lord" (The Lord=Most high God in this case) and can therefore be a representative of God as Heiser points out all through his divine council teachings (again which I thank him for). This is the position of a Plenipotentiary. One who is sent to represent a king and has full authority to speak or act on that kings behalf. Adam was one, an "imager" of God. David is one. We are each called to be one as well. All to varying degrees. Adam was supposed to be the head dude, but he gave it away by grasping at equality with God. The three visitors who called on Abraham were too, plenipotentiaries commissioned to do Gods will in this world. Not two angels and God himself (who would be spirit).
There is one God (who is a spirit. a Holy Spirit) and one saviour, "the man Jesus Christ." Who was raised (operative word "raised" not restored) and seated with God and Made Lord and Christ and "given all authority in heaven and earth, high above angels (divine council)..". (operative word "given.") Thats it, no third person. i.e. Jesus anointed by that same Holy Spirit. Which is what Christ means. (Christ= "anointed" in Greek, as Messiah = "anointed" in Hebrew). Jesus is miraculously conceived in the womb of Mary (as Gabriel said) so a human, a special sinless human, but not a god, and after resurrection is anointed and "made Lord and Christ" (Acts2:36)(operative word "made.") and given the wheel, so to speak, of his body, us, as Paul points out repeatedly. So in OT God was "Lord to Israel," now in NT Jesus is "Lord," he is handed that Lordship. (kind of like God showed us in Genesis where Joseph was handed lordship of all egypt, without having to be an egyptian!!! ?? Boss of all egypt but not equal or over Pharaoh himself)
Its all about God saving by presenting a spotless lamb of sacrifice, which He does. The blood covers all who come under it by their free will. Not God actually being the sacrifice, that would be cheating Gods own moral position.
Jesus, a special son of God, was filled with Gods spirit without measure, as opposed to all the others past and present who receive some measure less than all. That spirit is God, thats God who is spirit. Not a third dude who never gets a throne in Rev22. Dr. Heiser showed me with the divine council, a strong rope of continuity throughout the bible which ties it all logically. This as I stated above compliments that rope. The trinity idea makes a whole bunch of loose threads hang out of the rope.
Very well said. Unfortunately, tradition is so hard to unlearn. MH is brilliant but susceptible to the same thing. Thus he does some pretty weak mental gymnastics to reconcile the obvious flaws in classic trinitarianism. My bottom line is that if God wanted this spelled out clearly he would have. He didn't so it's probably not that important to the big picture. That or we unnecessarily complicate things because we can't help ourselves, lol.
@@Ranchpig67 Thanks. I like your name, obviously one of His sheep working unobserved among the fattening pigs. lol.
Yes i agree with your last sentence too, but the second last one is also my concern and that one who never quite knows their Lord might.... just might, be one who is told "... depart from me i never knew you." and i dont want to be responsible for not trying to tell them.
Thanx frm down under.
@@ken440 Ozzie boy keep your warnings: the Blood of the Lamb has already done its job and my name is in the Lamb's book of life !
Is yours????
@Shaddai Monteon very briefly put (because that comment was rather long).
After 38 years as a std trinitarian evangelical christian, I was shown how i had been reliant on being told by "church" what scripture said.
I am now no longer a believer in a 3 in 1 God. Jesus is not God. Jesus is the second or last Adam as Paul says and by definition must be a man as Adam was, this time obedient.
That man, a special son of God, is the sacrificial lamb as the blood covering of the people God is calling to salvation from the morrass the original spiritual sons of God caused by rebellion and tempting the first Adam, as Mike Heiser portrays in his work.
God is a jealous God who hates what His sons have done, but a loving and forgiving God towards His human family caught up in the mess through the wiles of the spiritual family.
@Shaddai Monteon consider Jesus is still (now) prophetically king of kings (when he comes into his kingdom and rules the nations he will then be, millenial reign begins at sec coming) and is even now lord of lords (Acts2,36) "Made Lord." And as he said to disciples when appearing after crucifixion "i have been given authority over all in heaven and earth." (not over God of course) (its like Joseph in Egypt) he is currenrly waiting till God makes the world his footstool.
So to answer, rather than repeat what i have said over and over ( im tapping this out on my phone) i will outline my journey and point to some teachings.
4 yrs ago while researching 1Cor12 13 and 14 to answer someone on the so called "gifts" i found something i had never been shown in 38 yrs a pentecostal believer.
That was that word "gift" was added in 1cor12:1 "Now concerning spiritual (gifts) brethren...."
And in ch14:1 "..... and earnestly desire the spiritual (gifts), especially...."
I have put the gift words in brackets like a Koine Greek interlinear does for a good reason.
Because they ARE NOT IN THE GREEK ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPH !!
A kjv old print edition has them in italics. same reason.
I dont want to get off arguing about pentecostal stuff, the point is these words create a misunderstanding that the nine things listed in ch12 are "gifts" where they are really manifestations as stated in v7.
So translaters thinking these are all power giftings have added the word to "help" us understand. Losing Pauls original teaching about manifesting spirit in a typical meeting (see ch11), same context.
It changes the meaning!
TH-cam search "The giver, the gift and the manifestations, truth and tradition"
There you will find a 3 part teaching on this issue, and the difference it makes.
The issue I faced was a complete turn around and lightbulb moment.
I immediately thought ..."what else has church teaching told me which is a bit off track?"
Well there is a lot. At least four big issues which others have pointed out for years and been branded as error.
One is the false Sethite view of Gen6: 1-4.
I thank Mike Heiser for helping me get that sorted out.
As you found me on Mikes channel you will likely know his teaching on divine council.
Another is the false burning in hell fire eternally, instead of the concept of being burned up and perishing in the rubbish fire (fires of gehenna... ger=valley. henna = Hinnim valley of Hinnim, where jerusalem burnt its rubbish and Jesus pointed out the parralel.)
This is so hard to keep short. Thats just the start...
The next one for me was jn8:58 and the "I AM" error over translating the Greek "ego eimi".
TH-cam search "Anthony Buzzard Jn8:58."
That will introduce a whole can of worms and argument. Its no argument from me, its completely logical what Buzzard says, even if you dont like him for other reasons.
No, it was DEFINED by the Catholic Council of Nicea, but if sola scriptura were in play, they would have argued about it online for 1,000 years. Why accept one Council but not the rest?
Cause it's biblical
@@simelisiphomncube3434 No, the trinity is an invention of men. Neither Jesus nor his Apostles ever taught it: Charles Ryrie, in Basic Theology, writes: It is fair to say that the Bible does not clearly teach the doctrine of the Trinity . . . In fact, there is not even one proof text, if by proof text we mean a verse or passage that 'clearly' states that there is one God who exists in three persons" (1999, p. 89).
@@Cato-263 the trinity is not taught In scripture but is evidently shown. Just like Jesus. He never called himself God but he is God. We never needed the catholic teachings about the trinity
The trinity:
It's right there in the old and new Testament
It's right there when we get baptised
In whose name do we get baptised in?
In God name we get baptised
And that is the Holy spirit, The Son and The Father it's right there in the bible
OLD TESTAMENT
We have the Angel of Lord as
We have the Holy Spirit
And we have the LORD.
@@simelisiphomncube3434 Why are my comments being deleted? Please ask the author of the post to stop deleting my comments. So far 4 comments of mine have been deleted. Why is he afraid of the truth. I can take screen shots if you don't believe me.
@@Cato-263 It appears you are the end of all truth and you know all things. It's a pity your comments were deleted because you unquestionably have all the answers.
It's right there in the old and new Testament - is not a Bible verse
It's right there when we get baptised - is not a Bible verse
etc. What is shocking to me is appears you didn't even try to crack open your own Bible and do your own study but instead like a faithful recording mouthed back what
you've heard and not what you've studied. Study to show thyself approved 2 Timothy 2:15 - Study is not parroting back what someone told you.
What you could have at least stated to show you at least tried was 1 John 5:7-8 No I'm not going to write it down because I want you to actually look it up for yourself.
Brother, you sound like a recording. Don't be like me that for decades saw things only through the lenses of my teachers. I didn't read the Bible and see it for what it said,
instead I read the Bible and saw it for what my teachers said that it said. They claimed the Bible was the final authority while placing themselves as the final authority
on the final authority.
When they taught me "Bible" and how to be pleasing to God it resulted in me nearly ending it all years later. What they gave me was religion and emptiness with a
fancy coat of Bible principals and teachings to live by. I had decades of study but realized I was empty inside, a salvation that had barely been given a chance to grow
into a relationship with Christ that mattered. Study for yourself, find out what matters and what doesn't, don't get caught up in church politics and things that don't
profit. If you disagree are get angry and want to accuse me of falsehood then please be my guest but I will require you show me the exact verse and reference
where what I've stated something wrong. Merely stating "the Bible says" is not a Bible verse.
You don’t need the Greeks for doctrine.
Two gods / Baal and Asherah a baby killer and sex godess: you have it all !
You do need the Greeks for the Trinity. This is the language of Greek philosophy not scripture.
@@ewankerr3011
So I guess the early Christians didn’t have faith in a Triune God if they didn’t have the language then?
@@elel2608 : The early Christians were monotheistic Jews. The God of the OT is Unitarian ,not Trinitarian. Moses and the prophets knew nothing of a trinity.
@@ewankerr3011 Read “Two Powers in Heaven” and then talk to me. If you’re not willing to do that, stay away from me heretic.
Don't forget to attend today's WEBINAR, March 21, at 8:00 p.m. (ET) on this TH-cam Channel
THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL LOGOS DISCOUNT FOR WEBINAR ATTENDEES - BEST PRICE OF THE YEAR.
Simulcast:
Facebook: facebook.com/DRMSHPhD
Don't forget to join the DIVINE COUNCIL WORLDVIEW - Bible Discussion Group
facebook.com/groups/393777644878175
You're teaching false doctrine Dr. Heiser. I can debate you if you'd like.
@@gimel77Dr. Heiser passed away.
But he would have wiped the floor with you in a debate lol
@@goatsmiserable555 Lol how would you know? And sorry to hear that. But now he knows there’s only one God.
From the beginning, the problem was obvious,
- Eisegesis *(what you are doing),* reads into the text what the interpreter wishes to find or thinks he finds there. It expresses the reader's own subjective ideas, not the meaning which is in the text.
- Exegesis *(what you are not doing)* is legitimate interpretation which ‘reads out of' the text what the original author or authors meant to convey.
I think that it is wonderful to watch this video, I was reading some of these verses 24 years ago, which led me to reading the Renewing Covenant ( New Testament ) and found Salvation or Ye-hua Je-us, thus becoming fulfilled. The Bride of the Massiach ( Messiah ) need more teachings like this. Unfortunately when I have been invited to speak, it has been met with mixed results.🙄🙄 Though it is fantastic that many people are learning more about G-d, now the hard part is for Gentiles is to stop thinking in the abstract concepts 🔳➿➰💨 ( western ) and start thinking in concrete or tangible concepts. ( eastern, the same way people thought in the TaNaKa or Old Testament ) 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
Isn't this the original covenant promised to Abraham? "In your seed (singular - Jesus) shall all nations be blessed"...so the New is really God's original intent as far as I can tell.
@@TruckTruck-gu9vs There was also a promise given to Eve, and her Seed. Ye-hua ( Je-us ) her Seed crush the head of the serpent ( accuser ) and the serpent would bruise His heel. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
@@dawvidben-huir8101 actually God said this to the serpent. But yes it goes back to the beginning.
@@TruckTruck-gu9vs I totally agree, what part of HIS world are you ministering in, G-d took me from Israel to Australia. ,🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
@@dawvidben-huir8101 to Australia, Glory to God! I am in the USA, moved from former Ussr. God bless you my brother in the name of Yeshua!
I have often meditated on this wonder ... when the Seraphim cry out "Holy, Holy, Holy" they are addressing a Trinity-individually! (in the OT in Isaiah and in the NT in Revelation) ❤️
Don't forget the Prophet Elias giving 3 prostrations to God to raise the Widow's son
Wow great catch! Never thought of that!
@@willtheperson7224 What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
False
HOW BECAUSE THEY SAID HOLY 3 TIMES DOES IT EQUAL A TRINITY
Love and miss you Dr. Heiser! I know you're up there dancing with the stars, praising and worshipping our wonderful Savior!
The holy spirit is throughout the old testament, even Isaiah mentions the 7 spirits/ holy spirit
Does anyone have the full link to this?
Excellent ... thanks Dr. Heiser ... Blessings ... Ron (Las Vegas)
Talk about profound ignorance of The Old Testament! These Prophets and the later Apostles never taught the contrivances of Emperor Constantine's church.
Ignatius of Antioch has entered the chat.
@@apachewraith, he's entered to confirm my assertions.
@@joshuaconnelly2415 Keep reading, lemme know how that works out for ya 🤣
I feel like 90% of the objections in the comments could be answered with "watch the entire clip." If one does that and then still disagrees that's fine, but when people imput arguments that aren't being made they're not helping anyone learn and grow.
I watched it 3 times. So if God manifested as a angel shouldn't the Godhead be a quadrilateral being. Or when he manifested as the burning bush,... what about a Pentagon? God is everywhere and can manifest himself anywhere. What I find VERY strange is that the revelation of a triune God need to be so convoluted and complicated. Also funny that he drags the holy spirit into the trinity in his speech like most of the church did up until I think it was 362.
Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff. But then again: the trinity doctrine seems more like a math formula to try and solve some theoretical problem. Probably why many people struggle. It has no bearing on your day to day life. ;)
@@snaphaan5049He gets it Psalms 82:1 is Elohim head
@@snaphaan5049 What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
@@snaphaan5049 The issue is you aren't cross referencing and establishing the context of what you read to link the person of the trinity to the statement. No wonder you would be confused. Case in point right here in this video it was already stated Jesus said he was the God that appeared to Moses at the burning bush, the I AM. So that means the burning bush was not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Jesus died on the cross would you say it was the Father or Holy Spirit? No. A modicum of critical thinking goes a long way.
@@snaphaan5049 You actually answered your own question. Augustine pondered some of your same questions in his Confessions and it led him to the trinity. If God is everywhere, how can he manifest it any one point and still be everywhere? Augustine asks if God is everywhere, does that mean a larger space contains a larger amount of God? Clearly not. Clearly an omnipotent being must be able to manifest in order to act and must also remain above the universe, containing the universe, otherwise God would not be omnipotent. Without either of those qualities, God would be severely limited. So God can manifest at a location (Christ), God is also above the universe and contains it (the Father), and God is also able to move through space so that one part of space does not define or separate God (the Holy Spirit). So any localization or location in space that is a manifestation of God is Christ. Christ acted in history prior to the incarnation of Jesus.
It is not that complicated. If you think it has no bearing on ordinary life, read Cynthia Bourgeault's "The Law of Three and the Trinity", everything in the universe has a threefold manifestation (example protons, neutrons and electrons). Humans tend to see things as dichotomies (one side vs another side), higher consciousness can be found looking for a third perspective. Humans love splitting people into two groups, for example "left vs right", God sees that there is another perspective above and beyond that duality. This is where the law of the threefold shows that the whole universe mirrors the triune God.
"Bart Ehrman and OTHER Jesus mythers"? Bart Ehrman is not a Jesus mythicist.
watch the full video
I would even go back much farther in history. The concept of a trinity is to be found in the old religion of Egypt: The imperial temple of Karnak consists of three precincts, that of Amun-Re in the center, and those of Mut and of Monthu in the South and the North. There were also three Highpriests in the New Kingdom.
Thanks for breaking it down Dr Heiser. No matter how many times you explain the Trinity, there will always dorks in comments who misunderstood 😅 poor soul and poor brain 🧠
We should claim to understand the trinity not because of our own mind/cognizants but God opening our hearts and understanding.
No two Christians can explain the trinity the same. Its your biggest clue that the trinity is an interpolation , an insertion. Period
@@tryemc3026 if you can understand fully it’s called Science... but wait, does science really can explain anything? Can you explain quantum mechanics?
@Coreficus what do you believe?
@@citra678
My friend, is n't the trinity an attempt to completely understand what God is ?
My friend, what God is is beyond us , we are creation. By your own argument the trinity falls on its face, any person with sound reasoning will always have doubt in his heart about the trinity . Why flow doubt ?
Jesus said, the o nly true God is the father , not trinity., and jesus did not leave without a will , to follow the next spirit of truth, that will guide the whole world to all the truth. Seek him and you'll find him
Again I am so very grateful for your Knowledge Dr. Heiser and for sharing with those of us that are Hungary for the truth!
Donna Hamilton
You are not getting truth. He is really selling you the dark history of paganism in the guise of biblical truth.
@@approvedofGod yaaaa wrong!
When you don't have the Holy Spirit you cannot see truth!
Watch all his videos before making up your mind : they all fit together in the context of the time and people the books were written !
I wasn't sure at first either but the more i watched the more they make sense and actually helped my apologetics against Mormonism.
@@davidjanbaz7728
Talking about making wrong judgments! You are completely wrong about me not having the Holy Spirit! It is you who cannot see.
@@approvedofGod denying the trinity as the this video shows that the Bible teaches both in the O.T and N.T. is a sure sign that you don't have the Holy Spirit and you are Spirituality blind to that fact!
@@davidjanbaz7728
That is one conclusion. The other is that I know how Trinitarians continue to mislead, by twisting, and misinterpreting scripture.
It is the Holy Spirit who is revealing the truth of the false trinity doctrine.
Trinitarians are so ignorant they don't even know how to pray to their trinity!
That was so simple yet so good. Thank you so much for your service to the church, Dr. Heiser. Your manner of addressing this is altogether scholarly and biblical.
May the Lord bless you more with opportunities to be able to speak these things to greater audiences. We need this even more in our churches today considering the widespread ignorance of the Old Testament in preaching and teaching amongst congregations.
To God be the glory!
Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff. I can't say I believe the trinity because at the moment I really don't understand it. Doesn't make sense. I guess it's kind of like a theoretical math formula. Probably why I struggle.
@@snaphaan5049God Is One Being Existing as 3 Persons Father Son Holy Spirt.
@@au8363 You are rehashing what everyone says but it makes no sense. It's like that 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 nonsense. This is pure theological speculation and make believe. The Catholics can provide biblical proof for the assumption of Mary, Tranasubstantiation and even something as silly as the pope. So yeah, you can propably scrape out something like the trinity doctrine if you have time on your hand and the intellectual capacity. But most people don't. Fact.
The trinity doctrine has no bearing on my life or anyone I know whatsoever. It's nothing like the ten commandments
@@snaphaan5049 so how do you know God?
@@au8363 My dad is 85 and my mom 75. They don't understand the trinity. They are good people, reformers but speculative theology like the trinity never made much impact. Even today I bet you most people sitting in the pew here in George have no idea what it's really about.
My parents had to somehow raise 5 children after my dad lost his contract. We fell on some hard times but I will never forget what got us through it (my siblings were too young). They had absolute faith that God will help us through it. And he did. One morning in 1994 while reading the book of Samuel my dad had a epiphany. And everything changed after that.
So you tell me. How do they know God? Or why did God help them and help me through my life? No trinity doctrine was involved in any part of their lives. And neither did it impact my life and I'm already close to 50.
You bible geeks forget that their are normal people with normal problems and some really don't have the mental capacity or maybe even the interest to understand this stuff. So they have to take YOUR word for it.
If we were catholic that kind of approach might have made more sense.
This is also a problem with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They claim that Jesus was an angel, Michael, and he came to earth. They say that the OT refers to Jesus as the Angel of the Lord. How can we explain this?
All lies.
People relax you do not need to believe Catholic dogma in fact you must run from their lies. You simply need to follow the command to believe Yehoshua came in the flesh and was sent by the Father. Those are the words of Yehoshua. Anyone who teaches otherwise, in other words he came as spirit (Eloheem or part Eloheem) is a deceiver and of the spirit of the ANTI-ANOINTED ONE. His flesh was fully anointed by the pure spirit of Yahuah. All this is a distraction by Satan to keep you away from what is important and that is that Yehoshua came to preach Torah obedience, not do away with it, and you need to obey the Torah if you want eternal life, now that Yehoshua has redeemed you, once and for all, by his blood. Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law [TORAH] or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULLY PREACH (Greek: pleroo) them. Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until shamayim (pw heaven) and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law [TORAH]until all is accomplished. Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of shamayim (pw heaven), but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of shamayim. Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of shamayim (pw heaven).
As a Christian of Jewish origin I say that when my father Avraham saw the LORD God YHWH manifested in the flesh, I mean the episode narrated in Genesis 18, he knew very well that he was before the One True God manifested in the flesh and this also applies to all manifestations of God as מלאך־יהוה or the Angel of YHWH. My fathers, the ancient Israelites knew that the מלאך־יהוה was YHWH himself and did not believe that he was another “person” or another “hypostasis” and one of the many examples of this also emerges from Judges 2:1-3. And verses such as Acts 16:6-7, Romans 8:9 and Galatians 4:6 when compared with verses such as John 14:9, 2Corinthians 5:19 and Colossians 2:9 clearly demonstrate that the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Eternal Father manifested in the flesh and in fact also from the comparison between 1Timothy 3:16 and 1Corinthians 8:6 in which we read that the only God is the Father we understand that the Father manifested himself in the flesh and the Bible teaches that he is the Lord Jesus Christ God the Eternal Father manifested in flesh. And that the Lord Jesus Christ is God the Eternal Father manifested in flesh also emerges from the comparison between John 2:19-21 and Galatians 1:1. Do not believe in the false doctrine of the trinity believe in the True and Only Lord Jesus Christ the Eternal Father God of the Bible, God of my fathers the God of Israel.
If Jesus is God the Father then why did the Father say This is my son? Why did Jesus say The Father is greater than I? Obviously he's not the Father if the Father says he is his son. This is the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Your argument is both just nitpicking and refusing to accept God the Fathers own words that This Is My Son. He couldn't have said it more plainly.
@@columkenn God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the Father is the only God (1Corinthians 8:6) and God was manifested in flesh (1Timothy 3:16) so Scripture clearly teaches that it is the Father who was manifested in flesh and the Lord Jesus Christ has clearly said that He is the Father (John 14:9). There is no “second person” God the Son but the Son of God, the Son who was to be born (Luke 1:35) on a certain day (Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33; Hebrews 1:5; Hebrews 5:5) and not begotten in eternity which is a contradiction, the Son who is the אביעד Everlasting Father manifested in flesh (Isaiah 9:6).
@-charutz6732 Read Hebrews chapter 1. You will see God the Father himself call Jesus God. The Holy Spirit is also identified as God. That is the Trinity. God manifested in flesh is Jesus the son of God who is also God, but Jesus is not the Father. That's very clear from Scriptures. You should read it again.
Matthew 3:16-17 gives a clear picture of the Trinity. God the Father says Jesus is my son so he can't be more clear to you. God's Holy Spirit descends on Jesus, who is God the son. You have the Trinity in those 2 verses.
@@columkenn Hebrews 1 must be understood in the right way, in fact for example also in Exodus 34:6 YHWH God speaking of himself not in the first person called himself אל רחום וחנון God compassionate and gracious and there is another example in verse 14 where also in that case YHWH God speaking about himself not in the first person said כי יהוה קנא שמו אל קנא הוא therefore he said that his name is Jealous and that he is jealous God but my fathers the ancient Israelites had to believe that God is one they did not have to believe in two or three so-called “persons” who should have seen as polytheism and must always be seen that way. The Holy Spirit is God himself because God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the only God is the Father (1Corinthians 8:6) therefore it cannot be said that the Holy Spirit is God but not the Father just as it cannot be said that the Lord Jesus Christ is God but not the Father because the only God is the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6) and God was manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16) therefore the Father was manifested in the flesh because the only God is the Father (1Corinthians 8:6) and the Lord Jesus Christ said He was the Father (John 14:9).
@-charutz6732 You are the one who misunderstood the text and twists its meaning to fit your false narrative. The text was intended to be easily understood. Stop twisting the words and meaning of Scriptures.
God told you in his book that "THIS IS MY SON". What part of that don't you understand. He also referred to HIS SON as God. Just accept that you misunderstood it previously.
The Son who is also God says The Father is greater than I. They are both God and with the Ruach HaQodesh or Holy Spirit they are the Trinity.
This very limited view of the origin of the Trinity Doctrine lacks the OT context that would explain a Hebraic understanding of connection and how the original audience would have understood these connections. While we are throwing around the term ignorance, I would offer that being ignorant of dualism and polytheism prior to the Council of Nicea is perhaps the greatest shortfall of the information contained in this video. The CoN is not responsible for the creating the doctrine; only making it necessary to be connected to the church. If Mr. Heiser is aware of the actual origins of the idea, before it was added officially to early church theology, then I hope he shares it with his followers.
I wish more people knew about your work thanks again 👍👏
Pedigree, If you call mincing and dicing words "work," where can I get paid for it?
@@jimlogan9883 he's a linguist so
@@jimlogan9883 get a PhD in Biblical languages and stop being ignorant!
It's so obvious that we have confirmed that Jewish rabbis taught the two YHWH's doctrine during the second temple period.
1:49
"In Isiah 63 they rebel and grieve against the holy spirit." But that's not what the text says, is it? They rebel and grieve against HIS spirit.
I understand this slight of Hand is probably unconcious, but nevertheless the teachings of a triune God is based on such slights of Hands.
Instead of The Son of God they preach of God the Son, instead of the birth of Jesus they preach of the incarnation of the Son and so on.
Isaiah 63 does not say that they rebelled and grieved against the third person of the Trinity. It says, that they rebelled and grieved against the spirit of God.
Could Melkizadek and other ones like him have been manifestations of the Holy Ghost or the fruits of the Holy Ghost?
The Trinitarian struggle arises from the assumption of Trinitarianism, the belief that Jesus was God or a Person of God and the Son of God. This struggle often stems from a detachment from Judaism and a lack of understanding of the historical context of scripture. Did the Jews believe that the Angel of Yahweh was Yahweh Himself? Were they confused? No, the Trinitarians struggle with these concepts, not the Jews. The Trinitarian teaching did not emerge out of thin air; humans have worshipped triads for thousands of years. Virtually every ancient society worshipped a trinitarian deity. Interestingly, the Jews did not worship one, yet they understood the concept of the Trinity. Were they not captives in Babylon? The Babylonians worshipped Sin, Shamash, and Ishtar as a Triad. Were they not captives in Egypt? Amun, Mut, and their son Khonsu were also considered the triad of Thebes. Then there's the triad of Memphis, and so on, until we come to Athanasius, often regarded as the Father of the Trinity. Dr. Michael S. Heiser, are you suggesting that you are not aware of the specific historical and intellectual context of the early Church? Why are Trinitarians so reluctant to provide the full historical context? Was the word "Trinity" always understood to mean what Trinitarians mean today? Did Tertullian use it in the same way as Athanasius? Did Origen use it that way? Did Arius just appear out of nowhere? It is well known that Athanasius was influenced by Platonism, Aristotelian metaphysics, and Neoplatonism. He utilized concepts like substance, essence, and unity to articulate the relationships within the Trinity. Philosophical language and terminology, including terms like "ousia" and "homoousios," which are never found in scripture, are not how God or Jesus is described in relation to the Father. It's remarkable how Trinitarian scholars, despite their vast knowledge, often falter when encountering topics related to the Trinity. They may fail in history, in Hebrew or Greek, and seem to collapse under scrutiny. We were warned by scripture about such teachings (Colossians 2:8). It's unfortunate that the scriptures will never be good enough for Trinitarians.
Thanks for clarifying what I have always thought , and said , …… that the big overriding fact that Trinitarians ignore , is that nobody living back in Bible times, ever believe that God was a triune God, they ignore the fact that there was a whole civilization living back then ( Jews ) who kept meticulous religious records , and yet they make no mention of a triune God , In fact, we described God in the opposite way 👉🏼 Deuteronomy 6: 4 , I’m sorry people, but The Trinity was assumed into the scriptures about 300 years after the Bible was written !
@@Summersblues1 Amen
What is very confusing about "the Trinity", is when Jesus was on Earth, he actually prayed to HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN! And in the "model Prayer" he demonstrated for us to use, we were directed to "Pray to the Father" in Heaven.
Jesus NEVER taught anyone that he was superior to "The Father" or that we should pray to "him" (Jesus) instead of THE FATHER.
Why is that confusing? For one, Jesus is a different person from the Father, so it actually makes sense that He would speak to Him (the Father). In the Gospels, you have the voice of the Father speaking of (and directly to) Jesus a couple of times. If the point of confussion is the object of His prayer (ie what was being said), remember, Jesus is both God and man at the same time. Fully God and fully man at the same time. Since He is both, He can speak of Himself as either in any circumastance. For example, with relationship to the Father, as God He is equal to the Father "The Father and I are one, the Father dwells in me and I in Him", but as a man, He is less than the Father (the Father is greater than I).
Now, with respect to Jesus not teaching prayer to Himself, it was not needed. For one, the people whom He healed did so "Oh Lord, Jesus, Son of David, Have mercy on me/us" or if you will, since Son of David=Messiah=Christ, "Oh Lord, Jesus Christ, have mercy on me/us". That's how they got Jesus' attention in the first place. On the other hand, access to the Father comes only through the Son "none can come to the Father, except through Me". Even the "model prayer" itself nods to that, by asking "τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον", which is translated as "our daily bread", but actually means "our most essencial bread". While one can argue that it means "give us the essesial to survive", given that the rest of the prayer asks spiritual or heavenly things, it also referrencess the heavenly bread, Jesus. "I am the bread that came down from Heaven, he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood, dwells in Me, and I in him; for My flesh is an actual food, and My blood an aclual drink; verily do I say to you, unless you eat of My flesh and drink of My blood, you have no eternal life". So the prayer includes a part which means "give us the heavenly bread, your Son".
I have to disagree, He did hint to His disciples that He was to be prayed to.
He referred to Himself as their Master and stated emphatically that we cannot serve two masters.
He also said that He and the Father are ONE.
@@thenowchurch6419 Thomas statement is after the Resurrection but people did worship Jesus like the lame man that Jesus healed.
Most of the worshipping of Jesus happens after his Resurrection in his Glorified body before going back to heaven.
This was a mystery as Paul states to keep the haSatan from interfering with God's plan.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Where does Paul say that?
@@thenowchurch6419 watch Dr.Michael Heiser PhD in Biblical languages on The Naked Bible podcast.
Paul said it was a mystery hidden but now revealed: Dr.Michael Heiser gives reasons that it was to prevent interference by haSatan as per Pauls statement that if they really knew who Jesus was and why he came: haSatan would not have incouaged the Jews to crucified Jesus.
Since that was God's plan all along.
May you rest in paradise Michael. Thank you for everything
If he is in Paradise, he will have figured out by now that the trinity is a lie from the pit of hell.
@cpnurseries that's a goofy thing to say. The Trinity is the only option that could be true.
@LoftOfTheUniverse ...except that it's completely untrue
@@cpnurseries okay anybody can say something isn't true, but proving it is another thing
@@LoftOfTheUniverse You prove the Trinity.... you're the one making the preposterous claim.... the burden of proof falls on the person saying that something DOES exist, not that that it doesn't. How can Jesus BE God if Jesus claims that he can do nothing except His Father shows him first, and that His Father is greater than him, and that he was begotten and therefore not eternal and he was visible (no man has seen God at any time). Jesus had a God. Does God have a God? Jesus had a Father. Does God have a father? Jesus didn't do his own will, but the will of he who sent him. Does God do his own will? Jesus learned obedience. Did God learn obedience? Jesus died... can God die? Jesus was a man.... but the Bible said "God is NOT a man that He should lie. Jesus was the Son of Man.... but the Bible says, "neither is He the Son of Man that He should repent." That's just a sample of the reasons that Jesus is not God.
The Father is Spirit.
The Father is Holy.
The Father is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is referred to with male pronouns because the Father and the Holy Spirit are synonymous.
The Son of God, Christ, was given all things, which means there was a time when He did not have all things, otherwise, why was He given all things.
The Trinity is a double-talking myth.
Hi Dr. Heiser!
At 1:45+ in this video, "ruwach" is the Hebrew word translated "spirit" in both passages. It can mean "wind", "breath", "mind", "thought", "non-physical power", and so on. Hardly a rational being. We can correctly quote the Word with: "God is spirit", but certainly not all ruwach are God.
Speaking of the second resurrection of the dead, Christ said, "I will _pour out_ My spirit on all flesh." You can't "pour out" a person. Nor can one of "three equal Persons" decide what another one of them can do. Nor can any of them possibly decide to give another of his "equals" away.
Starting with the first English translation (AV / KJV) most references to God's holy spirit as "He" or "Him" are concentrated in the NT gospel of John. As with the other books, this was translated by a man who came from well over 1200 years of enforced Roman Catholicism. Obviously, this Roman Catholic Englishman was especially indoctrinated with the thought of God's spirit/power/life-force as a "He". But even in the AV there are FAR MORE references to Gods (holy) spirit as "it" or "which" or "that" than any personifications.
"Three equal Persons in one God" - a "Trinity" - That's what I was taught in Roman Catholic schools from the first grade through Roman Catholic University. It's a Roman Catholic TRADITION, not Scriptural, and not made "official doctrine" until it was voted in as a compromise as the Council of Nicea was breaking up in August of AD 327.
Check your facts, Michael, please! Read the article entitled "The History of Christian Thought" as it appears in the 1913 ed. of The CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA (Vol.1, p.258). The section referring to the emperor's AD 325-27 Council at Nicaea includes the council's vehement debate over God being one or two Persons, and then the compromise.*** It closes with: "Of those who cared enough to remain behind and vote, the 'Trinity' idea carried by a slim margin." The article was eiminated from further editions. The Roman Church continues to purchase/confiscate and destroy as many copies of the 1913 edition as they can find - making it quite a job to find one today.
But it's not impossible. There are still a few around, sir. As of 1985 the New York Public Library (midtown) still had one they had refused to 'sell' to the Archdiocese of New York. And so into the vault it went. On a tip I was able to have copies of the article made for myself.
***** "the compromise"? This solidly identifies Emperor Constantine's
Roman Universal (Catholic) Religion/Church as the world's largest
counterfeit of God's "ekklesia" ever to exist . . . established only for political
expediency . . . and identified in Rev.17:5 as
"Mystery Babylon the Great, the mother of prostitutes" (NIV).
Thanks for listening.
Dr heiser passed away recently due to illness.
My mum explained it to me when I was 5 that God is like an orange and its segments - where ever you put the seperate pieces, they still come from that one place that makes it whole. Definitely satisfied my curiosity & helped me to understand His awesomeness
That's tripartism which is a heresy according to the Catholic church
Cute. But it doesn't solve the core issues. Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ or intellectual capacity to understand this stuff. I can't say I believe the trinity because at the moment I really don't understand it. 99% of people don't. They swallow up analogies like this but if you start scratching you realize these people are clueless. But I guess it's kind of like a theoretical math formula. Probably why I struggle.
It's always funny how Christians drag along along the spirit in the trinity - most don't really know what to do with it. Even the early church was confused about that aspect and only in 362 (I think) they finally settled on the spirit as part of the triune God. Crazy.
@@snaphaan5049and there it’s only in this level of honesty does one actually see clearly. The author of confusion is satan, not the most high. So if we the people are in constant confusion about a certain teaching or doctrine, critical thinking skills would allow you to srealize that satan is seeking to be worshipped and glorified like the most high and to be his equal by claiming a name that he comes in to deceive the whole world. i believe we are to only worship the most high, the one true god. his son was sent to teach us his way and to always go to the father as the only god. Anyone who is worshiping Jesus the son and god the father as EQUALS has been deceived into worshipping two gods. For satan also holds the title of god of this world, does that mean he is also god? No it doesn’t, god is a title. A title that’s synonymous with ruler. A father and son are never equals. The apple and the tree are not the same. The apple comes from the tree. Just as Christ the son came from God the father. and he bared the fruit of his father aka he lived and showed himself to be from the tree of the most high, his father. Our creator uses nature to teach us the most simplest yet most potent lessons. It’s only in the confusion of a trinity do people start to struggle understanding who is who and what is what.
@@Southforthewinter Well said, and agreed! If it doesn't make sense, then we can assume satan caused this confusion. The trinity is a man made doctrine. Jesus is the Son of God! No one comes to the father but by him. John 14:6 Simple, clear, and to the point.
That is modalism, not Trinitarianism. Your Mum meant well, but forgive me, she is wrong in her analogy. What is the Trinity? The Trinity is this: The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and yet not three Gods (Elohim), One God (EL or Eloah). The use of the Hebrew word “Elohim” (a plural) was translated as God (singular) first in the Septuagint and later in the versions of the Bible specifically as found in Genesis 1:1. Elohim, God in other languages, was never meant to demonstrate the Trinity, and it would be out of context to do so. Does a Christian need to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Must one believe in the Trinity in order to be saved? And if so, why did our Savior and His disciples never teach the doctrine of the Trinity? Why would Christians three centuries later give credence to the councils of men seeking to define the deity of Christ in conjunction with the Father without revelation from God? In the history of Christianity, the first four ecumenical councils: the First Council of Nicaea in 325, the First Council of Constantinople in 381, the Council of Ephesus in 431, the Council of Chalcedon in 451 were designed to argue over who God is without one thus says the LORD! If the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then why did it take all these councils to finally decide and design the deity of Christ? From the beginning in the year 325 CE to the year 380 CE when it supposedly ended. Can mankind define who God is? No. Only God can reveal Himself to mankind. Accordingly, scholars agree that “Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relationship, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained...until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Dale Tuggy, 2020). In fact, the Trinitarians have claimed to base their definition of God by implication, as there is absolutely no explicit doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. There are two seemingly explicit pillars for the Trinity in the New Testament, namely, Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8. First, 1 John 5:7-8, known as The Johannine Comma, is an interpolation (words added), as acknowledged by Christian scholars, to the Bible by over-zealous Trinitarians, who wanted some testimony to the Trinity, due to the fact that in the Bible there is no such doctrine of the Trinity. Second, Matthew 28:19 has come under suspicion by Christian scholars, a commandment allegedly given by Christ to the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, however, the disciples only baptized in the Savior’s name {YAHSHUA} as demonstrated in the Book of Acts. The early church historian Eusebius, wrote (as published circa 316 CE) in his book on early church history the verse of Matthew 28:19, that Christ actually said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations in my name" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, PENGU1N CLASSICS, 1965). The Trinity, evolving, has only really existed since the 4th century. Historian H.G. Wells factually stated, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the Trinity-at any rate from Him" (The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther is quoted in a sermon saying, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, p. 406, 1988). It is time that the false Trinity Doctrine cease to exist in Christianity! Unfortunately, Catholics agree that “Whoever will be saved: before all things, it is necessary to keep the Catholic faith… unless he keeps this faith whole, he will perish everlastingly...And the Catholic faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity” (Catholicism, p. 69, 1961). Protestant professor of Theology James White, states, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine… We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully and completely Christian.” And paradoxically, professor White further states: “The Trinity doctrine is misunderstood as well as ignored. It is so misunderstood that a majority of Christians when asked, give incorrect and at times downright heretical definitions of the Trinity” (James White, The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). According to James White, around 75% of Christians, who think themselves to be Trinitarians, are actually Modalists. Modalism: One God who at different times represents Himself in three different modes of being: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If belief in the Trinity doctrine is so critical to our salvation, the question goes begging, why did Christ and the disciples not preach the Trinity? It is even more confounding when historically the Trinity developed over 300 years after Christ? To say that one must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, when Christ never stipulated the doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation is the grossest form of legalism! The man-made Trinity Doctrine is so ingrained into the imagination of Christians as a prerequisite for salvation, that despite the fact that Christ and the apostles never ever taught it, it becomes unthinkable to cast aside this doctrine even when proven to be solely based upon the traditions of men. Consequently, many could actually stand condemned for believing in the Trinity! For the very reason of teaching it according to the Tradition of men, and not of God. Christ warned us about teaching doctrines without one thus says the LORD! And He...said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…” He told them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (Mark 7:6-9). According to the Gospel, Christians are not stipulated to believe in the Trinity in order to receive salvation and eternal life to enter into the Kingdom of God! If Christians needed to believe in the Trinity in order to be saved, then it would have been taught in the New Testament by our Lord and Savior. Biblically and historically the Trinity was never taught as also evidenced in the New Testament. The Trinity is a useless and confusing Doctrine based solely on the misunderstanding and confusion of men. It is time for Christians to free themselves from the doctrines of men. Our God is the Son of God, the only Lord YAH, to the glory of His God and Father, and YAH means I AM.
Who coined the word trinitas or trinity and who formulated the doctrine of the trinity??
Was Abraham a trinitarian or monotheist?
Is the doctrine of God an absolute numerical one or not?
Absolutely love MH but this is such a weak argument. Totally buy the 2 god explanation, but old testament idea of "spirit" is stretching it. Even the primary example of psalms and Isaiah contradict what is proposed. David says GOD, not spirit. So the Isaiah example is weak.
Bottom line is Trinitarianism is very weak indeed and comes from pagan roots. So many examples it's ridiculous. Whether it was the council of Nicea or before is irrelevant. Somehow the pagan tradition creeped into NT theology. Everything is mental gymnastics to explain it.
You see this over and over again in church history. Easter, Christmas, etc. All pagan foundations re-formatted and re-explained in a "christian" version.
Heck, even the statue of Peter in Rome is a repurposed pagan god. So make your arguments, but it fails because it has to reach into sketchy passages and esoteric arguments.
Bottom Line: It doesn't matter. If God really wanted this stuff clear it would have been absolutely ironed out in scripture. The fact that it isn't is proof that it's low on importance. Do you own research. Ask simple questions, ones that 99% of churches don't encourage. Think like a child and just ask basic questions and so much will be revealed. Ask God to help and forget everything you've been taught. Remember Jesus got pretty pissed off at 2 things. The bankers of his day, and those teaching the traditions of men. He didn't even get angry at the devil who was tempting him. Think about that.
Now that was confusing: are you a Muslim.
The Holy Spirit is mentioned in the O.T ! And HE isn't The Father or Jesus!
@@davidjanbaz7728 Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God from the Genesis. I don't think they're distinct from one another either. So let's say instead of God flying over the seas, He divided His Spirit (probably something much smaller) to create the world. Silly example but if you cut your arm, that arm doesn't become someone else, it is still you and yours, whereas with Jesus, who was conceived through the HS, is a distinct being from God but He isn't God, although someone who has knowledge (albeit not all of it) and authority from God, that is why He said He's One with God. In the Scripture, He refers to God as the Father, he prays to God and everything He says, He attributes to His Father. In the OT, God tells Isiah that He'll send someone and put His own words in that person's mouth, God predicts that we'd call him God because of it. Now as someone who's read the Bible, this much has become clear to me, I've always wondered why it isn't clear to other people who speak of three sort of Gods?
@@davidjanbaz7728 "Trinitarianism is pagan" is a very Muslim view of Christian theology so it's a reasonable assumption. However he's subscribed to Jay Dyer and no Muslim thinkers so I have to say it's unlikely.
Law of three: electron, proton, neutron. Positive , negative neutral. Unitarianism leads to dualism.
This is complete rubbish! Also an insult to the hebrew religion of which Jesus, Paul & most of his early disciples were devotees! Jesus' when asked reppeated "Hear oh Israel! Jehovah ( YHWH) your God is ONE JEHOVAH, and you must love Him ( singular!) with all you heart, Soul and mind!" ( Mark 12:29). Paul made it clear that this was STILL the 'status quo' at 1 Cor 8:6 "As for us there is ONE GOD THE FATHER". Also Eph 4:6 "ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL PERSONS". Nowhere in the NT does it say 'God the Son' or 'God the Holy Spirit'. The word 'trinity' 'three persons in one God' e.t.c is entirely an invention of the Neo Roman church of the 3rd century onwards!
Abraham did not believe in the modern interpretation of the Trinity. He knew there was a Father, a Son, and a Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons, one distinct goal.
One God..One Being..3 Distinct Persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) just as revealed in Scripture. 💫
It makes more sense that there are two divine beings, the Father and His Son, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and the Son.
@@truthbebold4009 No it does not. Yahweh said before Him there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Him..and when Jesus (The Son) was being baptized, the Father spoke from heaven (this is my Son, with whom I'm well pleased) and the "Spirit" descended like a dove...One God, One Being (3 distinct persons, 3 distinct functions)...always working together as 1.
@@songbird9444 Jesus says He is the Son of God. I take Him at His Word.
@@truthbebold4009 That's because HE IS..lol..the only Son of God..He is God the Son..Second person of the trinity. That's why He said "If you've seen Me, you've seen the Father"..."I and the Father are One"..."Before Abraham was, I AM"..(and finally in Revelation 22:13) "I am the Alpha and Omega..the First and the Last..the Beginning and the End"...Jesus was God the Son (the Word) manifested in the flesh...make no mistake about it...Bible is clear.
@@truthbebold4009 That is scripture. The scriptures NOWHERE teaches a trinity. The Spirit is expressed on numerous occasions to be BELONGING TO the Father and the Son and it is not anything in and of itself. It is Their Spirit. To put it plainly, IT'S(THE SPIRIT) IS THEM.
So then why did Jesus use "father and son" langauge to describe his relation ship with God....i mean himself...? It just makes no sense.. I suppose if you really want to force the issue you can interpret hints and clues in many scriptures, but the fact that Jesus chose not to support a trinitarian message, even tellign his apostles that he asked God to send a helper (holy spirit), makes it clear that they are not the same being. He woudl have used differnet language to convey that idea, if it were true.
Now if you want to compare the trinity to a "council" or "group" or "committee" of sorts, comprising 3 entities, operating together as "one"...united in purpose and goal, then fine....but to suggest they are the same being....makes no sense....
God bless you, Michael 🙏🏼✝️
An easier claim to confirm the Old Testament / Jewish Tanach contains the Trinity would be simply to use Genesis 1:2 for the Spirit of God walked upon the waters of the deep. This is the same phrase as in Matthew's Gospel when Jesus was baptised in the River Jordan.
Isaiah 53 talks about the Messiah (Christ, in Greek) saying He pays the price for our transgressions and inquities. By His wounds, we are healed. He was cut off from the land of the living (i.e. He was killed and died). Then it says He carried on doing stuff on Earth. Huh ? In the previous verse He died, how does He carry on ? It only makes sense when you realise scripture is saying He comes back to life. Resurrected.
This is one of the few times I disagree with Michael. I was raised and attended trinitarian churches for over 40 years. It wasn't until I studied the word myself that I saw the trinity is a developed doctrine of men. Numerous verses against it contrasted with a few uncertain or grey scriptures.
-6828 times YHWH appears in scripture. Singular personal pronouns are used in conjuction with the Father. Only 4 times are plural pronouns used in which Heiser admits its not necessary talking about the trinity. Example- Gen 1:26
-Over 60 times a throne is a reference to either the Father or the Son. Not once is the holy spirit shown to have a throne.
-- In the video here Michael lread that was HIS holy spirit. Meaning the spirit belonged to the Father.