The Most Important Bans Ever for the Commander Format
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- What should I do with my toasty Jeweled Lotus now?
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#mtg #magicthegathering - เกม
Imagine if this gets reversed someday, and this man just burned a Jeweled Lotus
lol, lmao 😂
Entire game is a joyless cash grab these days. Puts on HAS.
Yo I'm mad also....don't burn those though.....what would people say after it gets unbanned lol??😅😅😅😅
It won’t until the rc members buy enough of the banned cards.. then resell them after they get unbanned
@@drokhalis3338 Worse yet, they spent all of last year cash grabbing half of these banned cards to get here.
Sadly, I can easily predict that a LOT of people will quit magic this week, even more than that 30th anniversary fiasco.
Jeweled Lotus has a new future as a stand in proxy for Black Lotus in vintage cubes lol.
or in a sharpie cube
Just write “black” on the word jeweled and write “three” instead of one lmao
Garth One-Eye token, or Commander Cube
Also in 60 card constructed, doubling cube deck
Congrats to the Commander design team that ruined Nadu so he could play better in commander. Real helpful :)
Bet they're feeling really dumb right about now.
*gets banned in Modern*
Well, we really designed it with commander in mind
*immediately also banned in Commander*
They, as well as their superiors who (presumably) pressured them to change the card, should be fired immediately. 🙃
@@topkapi9351 it was changed because their casual playtesting team suggested it. It wasnt the case of an "out-of-touch executive"
I don't think the play testers actually designed the new card, they just said that they found the original version annoying.
I hope this helps stop Wizards pushing design so hard for commander.
Yeah I agree
Wizards doesn't give a cr*p about this, they made their money off these already
This is a big blow to consumer confidence. They certainly care a great deal about this.
@HadesElderSage jeweled lotus and dockside were both printed first in commander products. Mana Crypt has been banned in just about every format except vintage (where it's restricted). Nadu i don't care about, while dockside is playable in other formats, no one is going to run them. So I don't particularly agree with your comment.
@DinoBoy31 I'm confused on why you are disagreeing when 3 out of 4 were designed to push commander.
How much you want for that lightly played Jeweled Lotus? 🔥🔥🔥
You better not lowball him. He knows what he has
Respect for doing something outrageous and irrational while having a calm and well thought through opinion lol
I will laugh so hard if they reverse this ban in few days.
Gotta keep your head, but also gotta get those angry clicks.
If sol ring was banned, every commander precon wouldn't even be legal
i think the main thing is sol ring is at most 1 dollar or euro. Whereas a jeweled lotus or mana crypt are waaaay more expensive. everyone can buy or put a sol ring in every deck its cheap, not so for mana crypt and thats the most important thing.
@@TheKilaby price doesn't correlate with reasoning. Also, its the player base that determines the price for buying individual cards. Your chance of pulling one is always the same in a pack. Their reasoning for the bans are "fast mana starts" where sol ring sits right up there with Lotus and Crypt. They are just too much of pansies to ban a card that is printed in every precon. Has nothing to do with price.
@@TheKilaby Yeah, they'd have to include lotus and crypt in every precon if they wanted it to be as ubiquitous as Sol Ring and then EVERY deck would be crazy fast which is against the spirit of EDH (In my opinion) So this seems like the right play.
(Kinda rambly, so if it isn't clear I agree with you.)
@@TheKilaby like half of the moxen are still legal including mox diamond which is like 700 usd
@@TheKilaby they should have just reprinted it at uncommon
I'd buy that SP jewel lotus lol
Near mint with a small defect
@@NStripleseven Lightly played. I know what i got, dont lowball me
Troll and toad NM.
grade it
RC bans 3 cards, Dave "We no longer need to include 60 staples, its only 57 now!"
And right as I was brewing up a mono-red treasure deck. Well, at least I don't need to drop nearly $100 to get a Dockside for it now. 🤣
Ya never did! 🖨 🖨 🖨
Honestly red decks will be fine, swap in a blank goblin you are good. Splashing red is less alluring now.
@@arrowodd7695 I mean, it's not a goblin deck so swapping in a blank goblin isn't really going to do much for me... but there are other red cards that synergize with the deck that can fill that slot.
Also I'm not really annoyed or upset with this ban. As I said, now I don't need to drop big money on a single card for the deck to be optimized for legal play. And if I really want to use Dockside, I know my play group wont have an issue with it so long as I give them a heads up first.
0:28 light play
@@olerenfordt8113 accurate
Moderate to lightly played. 😂
Jeweled Lotus actually has a (small) home still with Doubling Cube.
Cube can double the commander mana but removes the restriction. Not a gamebreaking combo or anything but it's something
Which is why mana doublers don't use that wording anymore 😂
Rip the dockside that was in my pirate deck, you will never make me 2 treasure again
see thats my point of my comment, these 3 other bans are just bans for pandering to lower power baby players. Dockside is only broken in a deck that actually abuses the ETB or when everyone in a higher power pod are popping off and u get lucky that its not countered. And for Cedh those players adapted and got gud lmao or just use it themselves.
Jeweled Lotus in my power 8 Hydra deck, i have gotten my cmdr out on turn 1 or 2 quite a few times n there has been many times that i get f'd my counters or removal, guess what thats part of the game. There's just too much reddit echo chamber bitching that causes salty stigma for a card that isnt always broken but is still decently strong at all times.
it was never meant to be apart of low power tables. Low power players need to learn to actually listen to a rule 0 discussion when sitting at a power 7++ pod or just recognize that the high power pod isnt for them
Agreed 🙌🏻💯@@danielbratton7043
You can probably still play dockside If you let the table know you're not gonna infinitely loop it. Pirates are pretty good nowadays without it.
Rip my Zombie deck's Mana Crypt. Sol Ring isn't on flavor 😕
@@danielbratton7043dockside is busted in most boardstates. It usually makes 4+ mana for a 2 mana creature which is really good.
The fact that Nadu was banned was clear somewhere. Jeweled and Crypt are somehow surprising, simply because these cards were in the formant for so long. But I think the idea behind these bans was to give beginners an experience that isn't based on having to watch people with 5 mana on turn two. Commander as a format is now the new flagship and will probably remain so for a long time.
If that's the idea behind the bans they're stupid. How many new players are encountering turn 1 mana crypts? Or mana crypts at all? Unless your LGS is full of people who drop $150 on cards frequently, most games won't have a mana crypt. I'm way more likely to see someone with a sol ring and 4-5 mana on turn 2, which honestly is functionally no different.
@@coolerdood9158 I still don't agree with the logic behind the bans I see commander as friends game lets all have some fun it should be clear the power lvl before the game starts so basically if you all talk no one is going to be left behind by "broken" cards.. and if your playing at your local store and someone decides to go with a cedh deck against a precon or similar you can always get up and change table.. its a common sense situation in my opinion
@@ArCSelkie37 All the LGS's near me are packed full of try hards whose entire life seems to revolve around this game lol.
@@ArCSelkie37 thats literally every LGS lol
@@classybogan-n4b is it? Every LGS I have been too maybe has one rich guy who has all the expensive card, and the rest have reasonable budgets.
They should've provided some "forward guidance" first like, "we're closely watching Jeweled Lotus, etc., for a possible ban." Then on the next B&R date, they can ban it. That should've helped manage expectations rather than blindsiding many people.
Why should financial value on the secondary market matter with these decisions? The RC looks at the health of the game, not the bank accounts of big spenders.
@@MKhrome Well, that's the gripe of Dave (and other people). Though the bans improved the game, they had paid some money to buy these and now feel a sudden financial loss. This also means that people will be more reluctant to buy alternative cards as they could be subject to surprise bans too.
@StormriderVarskil1 stupid broken s%!+ getting banned in what is basicly the only major casual format in magic and your upset about wasting money? Cry me a river. It's command, you can proxy.
Jeweled Lotus was broken af, so the only surprise was "why now?"
The hope for a Thassa's Oracle ban is alive
They didn't ban it this time, I highly doubt they will at this point
They should have banned it this announcement though, I have a feeling if Thoracle was gone with the other bans, there would be backlash, ofc. But i feel like it be much less backlash than what we have now.
Imo Thoracle is more salty then all of the banned cards combined
If we would’ve got Lotus, Oracle, and Dockside I think it would’ve been correct and I own a foil Oracle and lotus.
It would have already been banned by now if it's 90$+ card. Sadly it's not.
@@j3fk4 I don't agree at all. the reason it wasn't banned is because it's mostly a cEDH card. these cards were casuing problems at casual tables hence banned. Many people seems to think that mana crypt belongs in mid-powered casual decks which it clearly doesn't, hence banned.
Just waiting for cEDH to get it's own format and separate ban list where Jeweled Lotus is legal.
Probably the case tbh
they would likely make some of the other commander bans legal in this new cEDH format. just a side thought.
@@rhino3801 I don't play cEDH. But I'm an advocate for them having a place for them to play at the level they want without affecting casual. Most cards should be unbanned for them whether they would actually use them or not.
Isn't it already it's own format in a way? The RC bans are strictly for competitive use to my understanding. Helpful to know what's banned if you play at your LGS though.
@@gwendolynbarnett9233 in several cedh discords and there’s already ALOT of talk about making our own ban list and separating from the RC, these bans inadvertently HELPED the already top performing decks
I just got back into magic, and got into commander just recently, and I can't believe the amount of people on YT crying about this. The cards basically priced out anyone just wanting to play for fun, being obvious staples for any deck they could fit in. People always want to optimize the fun out of games, and get upset when they lose something that gave them a clear advantage. I'm also a yugioh player, and it was the same thing when MAXX C got banned.
I stopped playing way back when Synchro was introduced in favor of Magic and even I heard the drama around that MAXX C banning. It was wild.
Idk just play proxies and it's free. :V the only problem is if you want to play competitive ans then there are other problems like gilded drake gaeas cradle, bazaar of baghdad lions eye diamond. Crypt n lotus are a joke compared to that.
@schorltourmaline4521 There's STILL a best card for that slot and people will still optimize. And the cards that take their places will spike in price. Look at Mana Vault right now. This does nothing. The whiners will still whine about the price of cards or strategies that hurt their feelings, etc.
There's at least one use: there's a meme legacy deck that uses jeweled lotus with doubling cube (the doubled mana can be used for anything)
That Jeweled lotus has gotta go into a burn deck, alongside other banned cards
That's a fun magic win con.. opponent played a half burnt banned card. You win!
Honestly a sweet update, commander has been becoming a faster and faster format with every year and hitting some of the fast mana staples will help. That said it'd be nice to see cEDH officially become a separate format so the spikes can continue to play with their crypts and lotuses (without needing to rule 0 them ofc).
the toxic spikes will come back to edh the second cedh splinters and say things like 'oh i dont like the cedh ban list i just want to play my favourites' while griefing every pod they play in
I did the same as you and at some point didn't even bother to put sol rings in my decks anymore. It was just always taking up a slot for a more fun, more flavorfull card. If that's how you play, you shouldn't mind the banning, there are so many cool cards to play! If you want to play competetively, get used to it. Players from other formats go through this way more often.
I'm thinking of doing the same too.
Much rather put in a flavor card or even removal over it.
If you're serious about what to do with the marshmallow lotus, sign it and put it up for auction with proceeds towards charity
Gigachad opinion and Gigachad channel.
wholeheartedly agree. Getting rid of fast mana makes other problematic cards far less of an issue
Another stupid take. Congrats.
now ban sol ring
cheap newbs who wouldn't buy these cards are happy. And legit players that bought expensive staples in the format instead of simply proxying them all got screwed. All people are gonna do is proxy more because this is a terrible thing to do to both real players and collectors. It sounds like a total scam. let prices of cards drive to extreme heights. let players buy them... and THEN ban all these important pieces. Meanwhile they will not ban sol ring because every precon will be illegal out of the box. Rule commitee are irrelevant edgelords with double standards I guess
lmao now grim monolith and mana vault just gonna go up and replace it. so dumb
Yep that was my main issue with watching commander content on youtube. The first like 4 turns for every single side is usually the exact same and if you did not fall in line, you are going to get steamrolled unless they take pity on you.
The problem with this stand point is that something will always take the place of the new best thing so you just keep banning things until your down to vanilla creatures
yeah but its like . whats the new best thing to mana crypt, mox diamond or chrome mox or mana vault? maybe all three of those get banned, and each one has three more potential substitutes with different advantages and disadvantages, and how do you pick the best from those?
and then you just keep banning more and more cards until- wow, theres so many "mana ramp with an upside" cards that we don't know how to ban all of them!
...and at that point, isnt that the goal? to ban enough "obvious best cards" that the players have to make a choice which to use in their deck?
Burning and then framing your jeweled lotus is kind of a dope move. I would hang that on my wall, no doubt.
I'm just gonna wait til mana crypt drops to like 30 or so, then I can buy a real copy. It's been a card I've wanted since '10.
Saw the ban, and immediate thought was, "I'm glad I only had proxies of Crypt and Jeweled Lotus...😥 because there are gonna be some people feelin JADED about this."
Glad you’re ok with it. Our local LGS just lost thousands of dollars in inventory value… but glad you can take the few hundred dollar hit..
I gotta say, I really apreciate the positivity in this video, I'm kind of tired of seeing all the negative comments on a lot of videos about this. The bans were called for on all of these cards from the community on multiple occaisons, and here they are. Yeah, it sucks that people are losing money and yeah, I am a bit leery of buying expensive staples now, but all the people who play casual commanders at their LGS are thankful to no longer be pushed out of the game by these cards from otherwise low powered decks. We don't need to attack others over differences in opinions or the people behind the bans, the vitriol that has been stirred up by the banning of four cards is shocking to me.
You should put the Jeweled Lotus in a resin frame. Just let it be a constant reminder about what has happened today.
orcish bowmaster and one ring are going to skyrocket some more.
Until the ring jumps to 200$ and bowmasters jumps to 100 and they ban them
Mana vault and ancient tomb will skyrocket..
But will be banned in a year maybe 2
Reprint then ban**
Playing that Jeweled Lotus like Blacker Lotus
This gives me 0 confidence in buying any card now as nothing seems off limits
That was true before we bought the cards and it'll be true going into the future.
Just get proxies then
Looks like Jeweled Amulet might be relevant now. Maybe it will be Jeweled Lotus's new replacement. My reserved specs are finally paying off.
RIP half my decks against my high power CEDH friends. Always love the color Red, from Mono to Temur, and now they're nerfed so hard while I have to watch my Thoracle and more friends skyrocket and remain untouched
Jeweled Lotus is playable in Commandercubes.
I think the reason why it's surprising that these cards got banned is because it's surprising for the Commander RC to even care about the format at all.
One of them lost to a turn 1 mana crypt this week for sure.
They probably made bank selling their copies ahead of the announcement.
@@blindrocket inb4 they actually just buy up all the copies going for $1 now and then unban it.
Commander will be split in two formats, Jeweled Lotus will be played in one of them.
@@CharbonneauChristian hopefully
This is great news for the format.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and say it's not; now any chase card from masters/legends will be in Wizards/the commander RC's sights for banning, so why buy those sets at all? Why buy any set at all if the chase cards in them could be banned? It destroys consumer confidence and imposes artificial rotation on an eternal format, so it's best to rule 0 things your pod is fine with in (minus ante and conspiracy cards)
@@hearmth6618 so don't buy those products
you can make a decently cracked commander deck with dollar bin rares from 10 years ago, you just have to be creative and find alternative solutions to problems solved by 200 dollar generic value engine cards.
nothing can replace dockside and mana vault which is honestly a great reason for them to go, ubiquitous, overpowered and not substitutable. the rc isn't going to ban cultivate or doom blade. all of these were known problem cards in the format.
@@hearmth6618 I'm genuinely curious, how long have you been playing magic? Because card bannings are not new. They've been happening for decades and not had the effect you're talking about.
Have a legends mana drain, not playing it. Sold my cyc rift. Never bought a dockside, instinctively knew that I didn't want to use it. Sold the jlo I opened. Holding my book promo Mana Crypt, love it irregardless of EDH. Been waiting for bans like this for a long time, I think this will be a healthy change to the format. More aggressive bans are needed still!
My number one complaint about this ban list is they didn’t ban Thassa’s
THIS
Seriously, I would not be as confused as to why they banned the other 4 cards and Not thoracle (aka, the easiest, most Brandead Alternate Wincon to pull off in commander)
If thoracle was banned too i'd be like "Finally, I don't have to worry about Mana Crypt, Dockside, and Thoracle" But the fact they didn't ban Thoracle just baffles me.
Could’ve just talked to the playgroup about playing the card; but burning it is fine
Something tells me Dave would have voted to honor the ban if that question came up.
Completely disagree. You could always swap those cards out anytime you wanted. Now if you want your deck to be as good as it can be you're just going to put in the next best Staples that already exists. It's changing nothing about the game itself but changing what the best Staples are that you "must run."
I'll never undertand people that want to ban good cards. It's like people want to ban, ban, ban until we're all playing 5 hour games with no cards played until turn 4.
I dont know, I guess I'm just out of touch. I just want to get in a lot of games, and I want to see powerul and explosive plays made with awesome cards and ridiculous results.
He did it for the vine 🃏🔥
The comments on X (twitter) are absolutely toxic regarding the ban. I agree with Dave, I think this is a good thing for the format.
@markfisk7124 fine for the format, terrible for the players
@@el_floppo9159 I don't think so, I think it was honestly way too late though. They should have banned these cards and other auto include staple cards far quicker then waiting for how many years before doing so. Rhystic is still a problem, nobody likes asking for 1 every single time, Gaia's Cradle is an auto include, less of a problem but still an auto include like Smothering Tithe is also someone of an issue. A format aimed to be about playing 100 unique cards should at least put some effort into having less staples than how currently it is.
@el_floppo9159 players should have been self regulating, the bans happened because they can't help themselves 😂
@@BDtetraWhen they started making cards specifically for the format was the beginning of the end, honestly. Hate to be the old man yelling at the cloud, but the format’s astonishing popularity turned a fun, casual home for your pet cards into a juggernaut of power creep. This has been a long time coming.
Thanks Dave you are one of the clearest level voices in the community !
Mana crypt being banned made the most sense to me. Every mox is banned and mana crypt is about twice as good for most decks.
It would make sense had they banned other pieces with it. Them saying sol ring is untouchable shows it wasn't about fast mana.
@MutilatedBunny that was probably a concession to wizards as it would ban literally every precon printed and probably the next years worth too. Maybe next year.
There's actually a Vintage archetype that uses Jeweled Lotus with Doubling Cube, there may be a Legacy version of this deck as well. So, there is still a home for this card.
@@deeterful came here to say the same thing!!
Technically true, but it’s more of a meme/pet deck than an actual competitive strategy.
@@christopherlundgren1700 true....and? Vintage is full of those kinds of decks. There's a whole thing with building stunt decks with obscure cards. I have a weird deck built around Coveted Jewel.
@@deeterful I guess I’m saying “at least you can meme with this otherwise useless card!” is probably not going to be much comfort to people that would be upset by this change. It’s not a real alternative to say you can use this with Doubling Cube. It’s an “um, actually…”
@@christopherlundgren1700 , I'll give you that.
If you only play commander and you don't sell out, then you are a fool. For those of you who think your Reserved List is protected, Wizards made you that promise.
How long before the RC decides your precious dual lands are too powerful for their casual format?
I mean... TRUE DUALS, maybe. But there are soooo many stand ins for them.
Shock lands (immediate step below True), Pain lands, and Guild Gates being some of the cheaper ones.
I’d say og duals are significantly worse than fetches, so I doubt it.
"Lightly played"
The One Ban... is real!
guess im just to pessimistic. All i can think is what card is next? The one ring? Mana vault? If you already own 10+ decks or multiple copies you might feel better about the format. I just bought my mana crypt and other "format staples" and it hurts to not even get a chance to play the crypt.
The message the rules commite to the players to me seems to be: Your deck doesn't need to be as good as it can be.
And their message to Wizzards: The format doesn't need their input.
I agree with your take. These cards SHOULD be banned. It just doesn't feel good to have cards that literally can only see play in commander get banned in commander. So it's good, it just feels bad right now.
Commander is really three overlapping formats, distinguished by card selection:
* Casual Commander - No: stax, infinite loops, land destruction. Budget-friendly, no proxies.
* Pay-to-Win Commander - Casual plus pay-to-win cards > $25. Proxies require permission.
* Competitive EDH (cEDH) - Play-to-win, nothing legal excluded. Proxies taken for granted.
Prominent promoters of Pay-to-Win Commander are WotC, online card dealers, and corporate-sponsored TH-camrs.
As someone who works at an LGS, I don't want to see sol ring get banned so I don't have to explain to every new player that they have to remove that card from the precon they just bought. It's going to add way too much tedium to new players and would require that this ban be planned out years in advance so wizards can release precons without soul ring for a while before it's actually banned.
@@Couldnt_Be_Bothered Ideally if the RC is threatening WOTC to ban sol ring, WOTC will tell them to wait till they stop printing them into decks, THEN ban it once they stop. 🤷♀️
MTG Devs: "Oh, we'll just make a whole new card like this and it'll be twice as expensive, chill guys, chill."
I agree with everything EXCEPT your proposition to ban Lightning Bolt. Just because there’s so many printings doesn’t mean it’s unfair. ⚡️
Bro set a jeweled lotus on fire, Vivec walks among us again 🎉
;)
I don't want them to ban sol ring. I think we should all have a little fast mana, as a treat.
but also, given the philosophy of the commander ban list they've basically legitimized going after the player with the turn 1 sol ring.
you mean you didn't already?
@@curtin1107 I do, but there are commander players who legit get weird when they're targeted for that sort of thing. like I'm not gonna say I've never acted upset when I get targeted for that, but some people act like it's unfair to get attacked first or have their sol ring get destroyed when everyone acknowledges it's a huge advantage and sol ring is treated as a "must-include" for every deck.
I mean, while banning peoples cards can suck, this ultimately is for the best. The formats health is more important than people’s flashy investments and, even if you still want to play these cards, you can find other places.
@everquill4275 please tell me the other places people are playing Jeweled Lotus, Dockside Extortionist, and Mana Crypt. I'll help you out to start: Mana Crypt is played in most vintage decks. So good news for the people who already have collections worth thousands of dollars. After that im gonna need you to enlighten me.
I'm not disagreeing with the ban, I'm just saying that your argument that you can still play the cards elsewhere is a pretty awful one.
The format was healthy, and cedh decks will still stomp casual decks. Nothing changed except the value of the cards.
The format health also increases the value of all cards in the long run.
It’s healthy and beneficial for a few people that will make a colossal amount of money from inside trading.
@@anonymoususer5351 The other places include: Any pod who agrees with you using them in your decks. Did we all collectively have a stroke and forget that this is a social format? The RC's banlist is only as useful as your pod wanted it to be anyways. Played plenty of games with silver-bordered cards, banned cards, even proxied power for funsies.
Also, Dockside is a fine pick in Vintage and Legacy cubes/drafts and even a fine tech choice for Legacy. Jeweled Lotus can still function in a fun little Cheerios-style deck that abuses the fact that Doubling Cube gets rid of any riders/restrictions on the mana it's adding - it's quite an interesting pet Legacy deck, I'd watch ThrabenU's video on it.
There, you've been enlightened.
My heart goes out to the folks who bought these cards yesterday: $309 for the Mana Crypt, $90 for the Lotus, $80 for Dockside. Seriously feel bad for those folks. Geez.
If they can afford to spend that kind of money on a single card, they can take the hit.
next we can rally for bowmaster, TOR and sol ring for the next big ban.
Can Thassa's Oracle be added to the list?
@@hux0rd that's scheduled for 2028
I'm all for a sol ring ban. The precon argument leaves me entriely unconvinced. Though Thoracle & Rhystic are still on top of my ban wish-list.
The cards that are suitable for play should be evaluated by your play-group, not dictated by a random council of self-appointed judges. I'd not be surprised to hear they all sold off their copies for profit prior to making the decision.
I mean, as a relatively new player to the game, I bought a jeweled lotus foil yesterday. Today it got banned. It leaves a pretty sour taste and makes me question the overlords of the game.
Wizards had clearly made enough money from hocking their powerful card to the point where they thought, okay time to ban it.
No way you can convince me it wasn’t always the plan to ban it at some stage. They got one more squeeze out of it for commander masters, now it’s gone.
I think this ban hits harder because it banned 3 expensive cards and nobody really even expected it to happen. Plus, Mana Crypt being banned all of a sudden after all those years.
The biggest thing imo is that they banned these 3 at ONE GO. Not one by one, but one go.
What's funny is they had to wait until Lost Caverns was out of print to ban Crypt, because that was the one card that people bought boxes for.
What does NOT make sense is banning a card that only works in Commander, from Commander. It's not even that good. It lets a five-mana dude come out on turn 2, but it doesn't help cheaper things and it can't be used for anything else.
Let me give you some advice.
Proxy. Everything.
Do not buy real cards if you only care about playing the game. Look up MPCFill if you're interested.
Trust me, it'll save you a fortune and you can still play the game. 90% of people are fine playing with proxies at the table since WotC has made it abundantly clear that your budget isn't a concern for them. You're just an ATM to them. Proxies make this game affordable and more fun since you can use whatever art you want on your cards at a fraction of the cost. (Max $0.30-$1.00 per card)
Just don't expect to play in any tournaments or re-sell the cards, which, if you're just here to play the game then it shouldn't matter. (Just like you normally don't resell board-games.)
Yall know WOTC didn't make these bans, right? This is the commander rules committee, which isn't connected to them at all.
Wizards don't have any control over the ban.
This will be really silly if they ever split the banlists for EDH and cEDH like everyone has been asking for.
(The burning bit, the rest of the video is great)
there are a lot of people (especially cEDH players) that don't want split banlists. Also think about this: cEDH is just EDH but competitive. So basically the most powerful EDH decks. If you split the banlists, you will have a new format for whatever that other banlist is, EDH and the most powerful decks in EDH will still be cEDH. It makes no sense to do that.
I think that PleasantKenobi had a decent argument in defense of sol ring. Essentially, just because some fast mana is banned does not necessarily mean that all fast mana should be banned
Dockside was a card that helped non blue decks be competitive... we will return to more control decks with blue. Mystic and fish still in ... no probleme let's empower blue even more.
Why would you care about being competitive in a casual and broken format like Commander?
@@Suhrvivor because some of us like an explosive commander that gets things going faster and not always being slow and steady. Why do you care if there are better and explosive cards in a casual game if you can just opt out of playing them? Our play group has already decided to ignore this rule change. But the frustrating thing about this decision is the loss of value in cards that many have worked hard to acquire… when in all reality casual player were already not playing… so what was the point of this ban?
Here comes a lot of banning now
My only opinion is that commander is supposed to use signpost bans, so it's wierd that both mana crypt and jeweled lotus got banned. And dockside already has a signpost ban with Primeval Titan. Nadu makes perfect sense though.
If I were to fix the sol ring problem, I'd create a new sol ring that does the same thing and also costs 1. But the big difference being a new line of text that says "this card can't be played on your first or second turn". (Think of Jace from thinder junction).
This way we get rid of the turn 2 4+ mana problem for lucky players, while also satisfying the argument that sol ring is necessary to give bad/slow decks some help. When you drop it on turn 3+, it's a great boost l, but no where near gamebreaking anymore as turn one.
The way I would implement it is to print it in every cmd product so it inflates for a year next to sol ring, then ban sol ring. That way the new ring wouldn't suddenly spike to the prices of jeweled lotus.
What do you guys think?
Now you'll NEVER get to play doubling cube legacy combo!
Good. Sol ring next please. Thoracle while we're on a roll. Make edh wacky and weird again.
These are reasonable bans for most commander games.
Excited for the shake up. Sol Ring should absolutely be hand in hand with Crypt, but some interesting times ahead!
Sol ring is NOT the same as Crypt.
One is a zero-mana, taps for 2, card with niche reprints that's upwards of $300+
the other is sol ring, which is a one-drop taps for 2 that comes in every precon and can often be found for less than a dollar.
@@Bennerz I personally believe that price and availability shouldn't be part of the conversation with format balance.
That said, while Crypt is clearly more powerful, they are similar enough that they should be together, whether that is banned or legal. Even by the RC's own statement, they would ban Sol Ring, if not for it being the poster child of the format. And I personally don't think that should matter.
@@adamklosterman101 I agree that Sol Ring is powerful, I just don't think it should be banned even with the criteria they have laid out. I forsee Vault eating a ban eons before they'd ever touch Sol Ring. Players just need to run more removal 🤷🏻♂️
As a tempo Jodah the Unifier main, I run the good mana dorks, Faeburrow Elder, Bloom Tender, and several others, and can both cast and trigger Jodah as early as turn 3 with no help from any Fast Mana or banned cards. There are plenty of other cards out there to make your deck work without abusing fast mana. Green is more viable as a color since ramping has more value, which is something many people complained about with Green in Commander. Nongreen tempo decks can still run Aether Vial and the remaining cheap 2 cmc rocks. Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox. Commander just got too greedy with people playing suboptimal drops cause they had a crutch. Reframing how to deckbuild with more 1-3 cost instead of shoving ten 5-7 cmc and hoping to pop off 45 minutes into the game will end up happening. Nadu is still legal in the 99 for Duel Commander, so at least the 3 dollars I paid for the foil can go into winning a pack if I play it on curve at my LGS. These are all great changes.
This has only solidified my desire to never pay for expensive staples, only proxy these cards. No point. Especially when the rules committee and wizards reprints these cards, then sell off their personal collection, before banning the card and tanking the value. I have never played a game against these cards where I either wasnt prepared to face them or I myself had similar powerful cards.
As someone wanting to get into Canadian Highlander hopefully the prices drop a good amount, I'd like to pick some stuff up
I felt bad when MTG Unpacked heard about the commander bans and burned his Jeweled Lotus... Now I'm watching your video as you burn yours. I'm at a loss for words. I hope you'll get through this eventually.
Mana Crypt > Mana Vault
Dockside > Jeska's Will
Jewel Lotus > Lion's Eye Diamond
The Jeweled Lotus ban is incredibly weird since it was designed for commander, so maybe if they wanted it changed make it colorless or something. That's the only thing I could think of that doesn't make it useless. Nadu was self-explanatory. Dockside is an eh ban, my playgroup did it for a while until others realized it's not always OP when we barely play artifacts. The Mana Crypt makes sense to me since the power jump from playing a free Sol Ring to a regular is massive depending on the opening hand and mana costs in someone's deck. Especially in the ideal scenario you could early get 8 mana on turn 2.
Turn 1: Land -> Mana Crypt -> Sol Ring -> 2+ Mana Rocks (Signets, Talismans, etc.)
Turn 2: 2 Lands + Mana Crypt + Sol Ring + 2+ Mana Rocks
Banning Sol Ring would be an absolute shit show. Every single precon printed before the ban has to be modified, or it is not legal. That would be horrible for new players getting into the format and would cause so much confusion
Hot take: The only reason Dave is not too miffed about this is because he racks in the big bucks already from youtube.
I think you need a break. Even if it's banned, you don't need to burn the xD. Just ignore the ban list and rule 0 them into a game.
Jeweled Lotus is playable in vintage. It a zero cost artifact, that does nothing.
Your assessment of Mana Vault is a little weird.
It's not a mana rock, it's a dark ritual.
banning cards that only see play in commander is something else..
You're not gonna believe me when I tell you they're only banned in commander, you can still play them in vintage, legacy, etc
@@DrexSinister mana crypt is banned in legacy and restricted in vintage
@@DrexSinister Jeweled Lotus? Really? It doesn't do anything anymore, because it only can be used in Commander
@@Damatovgwho told you that? There is both a legacy deck and a vintage deck that run a playset of Jeweled Lotus (though both are very fringe).
@@MK-13337 and what purpose do they serve? Just to have a 0 mana artifact? They don't do anything else. The mana it gives can only be used for your commander
Great for players who don't own any of these cards, but they've left a sour taste for everyone else and completely obliterated the collecting market with this move. Nobody will want to pay high prices for Masters-caliber reprint sets anymore🤷♂️
my argument against sol ring ban is that sure 2 mana is good but the fact is that the price of the card is so insanely low that every deck can reasonably run it besides EXTREME budget builds, and if you do play it out you have 3 players looking at you that are more likely to target you or your sol ring right from the start. its a big bullseye you paint on your back. in a 4 player format its fair. everyone can have it, and everyone can target you for it
I have also been taking out those expensive 'staples', to the point where only my cedh had these cards. So, guess I lucked out with trading them away while they were still desorable, but I am glad that the 'rando' experience will be more approachable (meaning that you won't need to expect a turn 1 crypt in a rando pod).
WHY ARE YOU BURNING A JEWELED LOTUS? Are people really so nearsighted as to think that commander is the only format that will ever use these cards? We already had a new and popular format made official last year in Oathbreaker, and while Oathbreaker doesn't use THESE cards, there's nothing saying a new one wont come along that loves these cards. There's at least one deck in Vintage that likes Jeweled Lotus. Don't destroy cards, man... what if they get put on the reserve list and their price shoots up? Black Lotus isn't commander legal either, and while these cards will never be the price of Black Lotus, there's always that possibility they become worth SOMETHING again.
I have a philosophy of always proxying cards that are over $5. I am very happy with the bannings today. Fast mana and expensive super staples have no place at casual commander tables.
These bannings suck for cEDH though. Wouldn't be suprised if there was a more serious push to have a cEDH banlist now.
Sol ring is not getting banned and has no reason to be banned. Everything that needs to be there is there: Cost, only 1 gives additional mana compared to cost, combo potential, ACCESSABLE.
The EDH committee shouldnt stop here - there are so many cards that dont match the formats goal of singleton and unique games
The "staples / auto-include" argument doesn't really hold water. No matter how many cards you ban, there will always be an optimum card for a slot. And if that slot was vacated by an expensive card, the owner likely has the money to replace it with the next best thing. And it's not going to solve anything. The people whining about prices are still going to whine, just about different cards.
My (potentially hot) take on this:
Bad decision. For two reasons. Banning cards because they are staples is a slippery slope, and there is a reason why staples, in general, haven't been the exclusive reason for banning cards. He said it first, and he was right. Why not just ban sol ring then? It's in EVERY deck. Why not ban cyclonic rift? It's in every blue deck. Why not ban Mana Vault, Fierce Gaurdianship, mana drain, heroic intervention, demonic tutor, teferi's protection, etc. All of which are staples that see play in almost every single deck capable of running them. As for the counterargument of the bans being fast mana. That I'm generally ok with. But if your goal is to block players from a sprinting start, then remove sol ring and mana vault as well. Don't just half ass the execution.
My second reason for why this is not a good thing: I have become VERY skeptical of Wizards since they were taken over by Hazbro. I can't help but to suspect that the true reason for these bans is BECAUSE they knew that they were cards that see play by EVERYONE. Now that they banned these cards, EVERYONE will look to fill the empty slots. Knowing Hazbro, they are likely designing NEW borderline mechanically similar cards in future sets that will outright replace these new bans with the knowledge that everyone who had to remove jeweled lotus, and mana crypt will just have to spend money on the new stuff to get the NEW unbanned variant.
Jeweled Lotus didn't see a lot of play at my table so we're not missing much. But dang, sucks to be our wallets, right?