Brooks, check that table that you put at 7:50. you reported the weight to power ratio and not the power to weight. Basically, you divided the weight by the power which gave you the number you had (4.5 and 5.2). I think what you were looking for is dividing the power by the weight (hence given the name "power to weight ratio") also because you mentioned a couple of times how you were looking for the power to weight and not weight to power. Other than that, such amazing content you have there! I definitely would not find this info anywhere else; so, I appreciate your effort in providing all this!
We've all known the 720 was in a different league to everything else in its class.Despite the ridiculous depreciation on these,it's still the best supercar you can buy right now.now,I honestly don't even want to know what the Lt variant will be like and thankfully mrjww has just released a video on it
Mclaren obviously communicated about the Whp, while Ferrari used cranck power value. Whp is the real power delivery, so Mclaren is just right about it, all other are just lying.
Brooks is still assuming mclarens dct has the same losses as the ford gt and the dynojet number are legit! There’s a few dynos here in Europe which seem to correspond with most manufacturers hp claims and the 720s has done a calculated 745 / 750 / 737 crank up numbers!
No one should ever care about trying to compare “crank horsepower”. Just measure it at the wheels and be done with it. Wheel Horsepower is what moves the car. Introducing a guesstimate into a measured value is pointless. You are introducing error for no good reason.
+ 1million Use the dyno for tuning or direct comparisons. Trying to manipulate the numbers for comparisons beyond that is bad form. And never forget that no matter how big the fan and how expensive the dyno, it is _not_ the real world - which is why we still race them instead of comparing power to weight.
@@jazzypurewal4839 Can't measure it without pulling the engine, so trying to estimate it from wheel hp is just adding uncertainty, It's also why you don't compare across dynos.
I'm a Ferrari fanboy, but it pisses me off when they lie about their numbers. They may not have technically lied about the horsepower of the engine, but the weight thing definitely makes me mad.
@@alexcambata8724 The simple fact is that McClaren *lied* and therefore had the power AND weight advantage. Why should Ferrari fanboys be mad for Ferrari actually playing fair???...
jappa Kneads Ferrari lied about the weight though, and when I say I’m pissed I mean I’m pissed at Ferrari for overrAting their power outputs and curb weights. I don’t see anything wrong with Mclaren underrating their engine outputs for example. Ferrari is my favorite brand, but I wish they’d act better as a company sometimes
@@alexcambata8724 Ferrari OVERRATED their Pista's weight. McClaren UNDERRATED their 720s' power... Connect the dots...let science do the rest. Drop being a fanboy for ANY car company. They WILL cheat if it means more $$$$ ultimately coming to their shareholders...
Very interesting. 11% is pretty small and impressive. Again, show the Mclaren producing way more HP than they advertise too. Now wonder it demolishes everything!
DoctaM3 More impressive is that McLaren claim a drivetrain loss of 4.8 percentage on the 720s...Now that’s what you call alien technology.. 685hp is spot on with 4.8 percent taken off...
@@projectr2451 check out McLaren’s drivetrain loss for yourself .... American motorsports engineering is so far behind Europeans race tech its bordering dinosaur. Why there’s never been an American F1 team in present times ....The technology used for F1 is planets apart from Indy car .....
@@projectr2451 it makes no difference to me if you believe McLaren’s figures or not... me, I’d rather believe in a multiple championship F1 winning formula over a dyno car turner that says otherwise
The differential affects drivetrain loss too, with open (720S) being most efficient. I think the Pista has a e-LSD and not sure about the GT. That said, McLaren definitely wins the award for sandbagging their car specs!
doesn't 720s also have a LSD ? but 1 thing I always wondered ..why McLarens pull harder than other cars even when they have almost same amount of HP. so turns out McLaren states power at the wheels vs other brands power at flywheel.
@@MJ-rr4hd no it has an open differential, but it’s highly efficient with minimal drivetrain loss. And yes mclaren power figures are underrated for sure
@@Kovalser I did few research on mclaren. open differential is probably not the best.....but Mclaren seems to be doing just fine. but using brakes to do torque vectoring ....is kinda not efficient. its gonna wear the brakes faster right? I think they introduced E-LSD few years back right?
The McClaren would do *the exact same numbers* if it had the same slightly lower specs. Science rules. If BOTH cars are having the same specs....how could one pull away like that (on the top end) from the other?...Both Ferrari and McClaren KNOW what they are doing relative to wind tunnel testing and drag coefficient variables etc... Only fanboys overlook science and favours a specific car company over the other. Fanboys are dumb...
@@JappaKneads If you think specs are only weight and power then you're quite wrong. Aero, wheels, weight distribution, tires, rims, gears, tunes all change the way a car performs, the mclaren pull the top end because of the sheer difference in power, the small difference in the weight should still give it an advantage in the start as well, but the pista keeps up still. That is why I said the ferrari is doing well in comparison. If you meant that i am a fanboy that is dumb then i hope after reading this you understand a bit more about cars.
@@Blaze637 Well u have to factor in gearing in the lower speeds + the fact that McLaren is running bigger turbos which create more lag, therefor the pista does get the jump on the 720s. + The Pista isn't suppose to compare to the 720s it's suppose to compare to the 765LT.
MrZyLeXx Nope. 12C competed against 458 Italia. Their successors the 488 GTB and 650S competed. So how can the Pista compete against the 765LT? When the F8 Tributo competes with the 720S...
@@projectr2451 They're both track cars, 720s is a GT supercar unlike the 488 pista. The track cars should compete against themselves. 650s is just a facelift 12c.... The Tributo is not suppose to compete with the 720s im pretty sure.
I always had a hunch. No wonder McClaren's "710 HP" is producing more speed than other 710 HP vehicles... At least Brooks has proven to be up front scientific and honest...Thumbs up bro!!...
It's funny how the 720S has flat out more power AND a considerably better power to weight ratio because it's lighter, yet it still loses to the 488 Pista in track battles when both have the same tires.
BeyerT1 that all boils down to the driver that’s driving the 720s... other words, you need a stig kinda driver diving both cars around the same track with both cars on the same tyres .... you’ll be surprised what the results will be.. McLaren’s are no joke.... UK 🇬🇧 engineers are second to none when it comes down to, freedom open rules ..
it would seem that way but not really. Go to a different dyno and the car can make 20hp less or more. Also put a different Pista on the dyno. It will make different numbers.
I saw a 720 dyno test a few years ago and it put out 696 hp to the rear wheels so Drag times was spot on with their results. The 720 is a beast. I do want to see the Pista kick its ass but the Pista has to go on a diet and lift some weights.
Something many don't know about most factory crank hp numbers is, they're testing with all accessories, full exhaust for said vehicle with the air filter and air box. Many things also affect chassis dyno's. Too many times people I've seen people not been in the right gear for a 1.1 trans ratio. I know I'm not the only one that's seen that either. If you have a new car but changed the rear gear that will change want you see at the wheels. Many also think the opposite of what happens with rear gearing too. Going from a 3.55 gear to 3.73 gear will slow less power actually. I know many think it's the other way around but it's not. Tire size is another one. Changing say a 315-30-19 to a 315-40-19 will make the tire height 2ins taller. Going from a 30 to 40, 40 to 50, etc on avg is a 2ins different in height. With all other numbers being the same. So obviously going from a 30 to 35 is about 1 in. Thing to remember is, many of these things are rules of thumb. Unfortunately many sometimes see them as more of facts. Dyno's should be seen as a just a tool to see what happens when changes are made. Bragging about dyno numbers doesn't mean shit a racer. It's not what a car makes at the wheels. It's how much you can get to the ground as quickly as possible that wins races.
You gotta remember the Ford GT has Carbon Wheels, Carbon ceramic brakes and a dual clutch with a mid engine so that’s the least rotational mass you can have in a car
Apart from the horsepower advantage. Nobody can compete with McLaren until they start making carbon tubs. McLaren lightweight will be advantage forever until Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche etc start doing the same.
That's impressive that the Pista kicks the 720S ass around every track but the wet course with that much less HP and more weight. Ferrari knows how to make a car handle. The SF90 Stradale vs 765LT will be fun to watch but my money is on the Ferrari.
Keep in mind Dynojets also read differently depending how the set up parameters are done. They have to sync'd exactly alike in order to be compared to other dyno's. The only real way to test this is to dyno a car on one dyno, then on another, and keep the variance in mind.
Thanks man, was making me mad because the numbers didn't make sence when compared to the races, should have been really close yet the 720s clearly had an advantage! The 11% drivetrain loss in todays day and age seems correct. Really cool video
So my question now is: You're paying taxes for 720 hp but it actually makes well over that number. Can the competent authorities fine you or McLaren afterwards for "tax evasion" now that the real numbers are out or how would this be handled (if so at all)?
Conor why else be conservative about the 720’s power. Mclaren wants to make it seem like there is a big difference between the two cars. When in reality the 720s is only a half second slower than the p1
Not sure why manufacturers underrate their engines. My 2020 M2 Competition is officially 405hp and it dynoed at 425hp to the wheels bone stock which would put it around 480 hp with the 11% DCT loss. I'm not complaining, but it's interesting as to why they do it.
Where are all the morons who claimed it's "alien technology" now? I been saying forever it makes much more hp than advertised and is very light, that's why it dominates so many other supercars. Thanks for the video.
Great work Brooks. Finally someone who can give us a real comparison. I thought there would be about 35-40hp difference at the wheels but it's a bit more than that...
What really aggravates me is that the vast majority of car companies go with crank horsepower. Wtfs the point of crank horsepower. Am I buying an engine or a car? Give us the wheel specs because I'm not riding a block.
Interesting info! However, the drivetrain loss percentage is not fully linear (i.e. if you will detune 720s to 300HP, it will not reduce the drivetrainloss to 33HP and vice versa if will tune it to 1000HP, the drivetrain loss will not increase to 110 HP). It will slightly reduce with the increase of the HP. Thus, assuming, that 720s drivetrainloss is similar to Ford GT, the real loss number migh closer to 10%.
21-24 hp is what the Pista needs to offset 200 lbs. The Pista was starting to very slowly pull on the 720s up top when they shut down in the Autobahn run.
Interesting info there, especially the 11%. The Pista is unusual as the torque is limited in gear to make it more like an NA car, are Fabspeed going to remap it to make the boost same for all gears too? The effect would be interesting, although perhaps not as nice to drive, if you prefer an NA type engine response. The Ferrari's get good marks for drivability in that regard.
Gale Banks was a guest on The Smoking Tire Podcast and said that drivetrain loss on a chassis dyno is not a set percentage that magically sucks up more power the more you make. Here is a time stamped link to podcast #389 at the 1:33:13 mark th-cam.com/video/O5LMi8y-MTk/w-d-xo.html
Did they start the dyno at 3800rpm on the 720S and at 2000 rpm on the pista? Could have been nice to see if the 720S could keep the clear advantage everywhere on the curve.
@@xfiazc07 Ferrari has problems, 720s can keep up on a track despite not being fully track oriented, Lamborghini doesn't care because svj has the ring time
Seems that cars of this caliber should come from the factory with a performance sheet showing individual dyno results for that particular vehicle. I assume they don't, other than going thru in-house test verification like that of the Ford GT.
Great investigation into the drivetrain losses! I think you could take the torque curve into consideration rather than just HP numbers though. Torque = speed as well,so the Pista may not need another 100hp to match the 720S. I’d probably look to tune that engine accordingly, maybe fatten the torque through the low to mid range?
I'm surprised Ferrari doesn't do this for how expensive they are for one, but also because of how prestigious they try to be. McLaren , Porsche and BMW all dyno close or equal to the number the car manufacturer says the car makes. My guess is there is no "legal" way of horsepower claims. Most manufacturers just do crank horsepower because its higher. My F80 M3 zCP claims 444hp and I've seen dyno numbers from 443 - 446rwhp. That's 500hp if the DCT has the same power loss. I was calculating a 12% ballpark loss at 505hp before this video.
11 percent drivetrain loss only applies to cars with the engine that sits on the drive wheels . Front engined rear drive and AWD has more power loss , and even more so if equipped with conventional auto trans
Not surprised at all, we already knew the 720S was faster than the Pista. Basically, McLaren lied about their true horsepower figure. That is hardly impressive at all. Ferrari or anyone else for that matter could make a car and say it has 720 HP when in fact it has a truckload more and then proceed to beat the living daylights of the McLaren equivalent that's all. Plus, McLarens break down all the time.
That explains a whole lot, why the 720s keeps dominating car after car after car. And Brooke's car even dynoed 690whp which does not equate to McLaren's claim of 710 crank. I figured this car was mad underrated
I always knew that the 720S had more power than was said, but I never imagined it would be so much. even so McLaren deserves congratulations on selling a 786hp car for the price of a supercar
Said a lot of shit, Ferrari since the 458 that the ECU does not release 100% of the power in RWD dynamometer, the ECU recognizes that the car is stationary and does not release full throttle opening and the Pista continues to beat 720s on all circuits, the first time Pista lost on the circuit was in Germany in a test bought by Mclaren a few weeks ago!!
Maclaren didnt lie about HP because they are cool guys like nissan with the R34. They did it so that people wouldn't laugh at the price of a P1 when its essentially the same car for a fraction of the price
would be cool to know the turbo pressure difference between the 720s and the pista throught the rev range. I have the feeling the 720s gets a bigger 'help' from the turbos compared to the pista. I dont think that the 720s engine in itself is better than the pista otherwise ferrari wouldnt win years and years in a row best international engine of the year.
Here’s the problems with bench racing and that’s what all this dyno crap has become. There are no two dyno’s that will ever read exactly the same even if there sitting side by side and it doesn’t matter who the manufacturer is. You also then have ambient temperature, humidity, dew point ( air density ) and true altitude etc etc. . Then there’s the fact that you can take 3-5 cars that are identical in every way and 1 of them will make considerable higher hp ( all the moon and stars were inline the day that was built ) proper break in probably plays a roll in that too. Dynamometer’s are a tuning tool and nothing else. You can not correctly calculate drivetrain loss using a Dyno, you’ll come up with a different % of loss every time you put it on a Dyno .
The 720s is the fastest Supercar in its category (with the GT2RS, Ford GT, Huracan Performante, 600lt, Ferrari 488 Pista, F8 tributo, R8 Performance, Nissan GT-R NISMO, and possibly the AMG GTR Black Series). But it has 785ps not 720ps, so that is a big advantage over the other Supercars. I believe that the only Supercar that will stop the 720s is her brother the new 765lt. (McLaren's SuperSeries are kings in straight line)
Great commercial... I use AdBlock Plus because of commercial time. The way you introduce your commercial is very interesting and real. I hope to buy one of these wallets. Thank you for this.
Big thanks to Ridge for sending me this wallet and supporting the channel! Here’s the site if you
want to check them out! > ridge.com/DRAGTIMES
Dragtimes Awesome Video I think it's Awesome that a McLaren 720S makes 786HP and wait how power the New 765LTs are going to make
When is the Performante coming? If you drive it,the Performante will surely run 10.2-10.1 s - 133/135 mp h
Brooks, check that table that you put at 7:50. you reported the weight to power ratio and not the power to weight. Basically, you divided the weight by the power which gave you the number you had (4.5 and 5.2). I think what you were looking for is dividing the power by the weight (hence given the name "power to weight ratio") also because you mentioned a couple of times how you were looking for the power to weight and not weight to power.
Other than that, such amazing content you have there! I definitely would not find this info anywhere else; so, I appreciate your effort in providing all this!
We've all known the 720 was in a different league to everything else in its class.Despite the ridiculous depreciation on these,it's still the best supercar you can buy right now.now,I honestly don't even want to know what the Lt variant will be like and thankfully mrjww has just released a video on it
The ACTUAL Pista rival was just announced today! 765LT Woohoo baby LOL
Your ban on the Ferrari forum has just been extended for 100 more years.
🤣
Well I mean at least he didn't expose ferrari overstating the power
🤣🤣🤣
Lolololololololol
Ahahahahaha!!! You have me rolling bro 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
765LT is gonna open up a can of whoopass, both on track and on the strip
Yea too bad about the fact that the new F8 and SF90 are gonna be in a different league altogether.
@@derbigpr500 Guess we'll see won't we.
@@derbigpr500 the f8 is already slower than the 720s and the sf90 we dont know yet
RJ AB @ it’s cheaper than a svj, why don’t you look it up. Price: 400-600k
@RJ AB the cost doesn't mean it's fast
So Mclaren lied about the 720’s real hp(makes 786 crack hp vs 720 acclaimed hp)?🤔 Still 💙 the 720s though!
Porsche does this as well on their GT cars. Speak softly, but carry a big stick...
Thunder Chicken also Turbo cars
That 10.3 in Carwow is not right
Mclaren obviously communicated about the Whp, while Ferrari used cranck power value.
Whp is the real power delivery, so Mclaren is just right about it, all other are just lying.
Brooks is still assuming mclarens dct has the same losses as the ford gt and the dynojet number are legit! There’s a few dynos here in Europe which seem to correspond with most manufacturers hp claims and the 720s has done a calculated 745 / 750 / 737 crank up numbers!
GazRwood Autobild says 745ps in their video of 720S
I love watching your videos. You are one of the few TH-camrs that is ACTUALLY educated on what you are talking about and you are a REAL Racer.
No one should ever care about trying to compare “crank horsepower”. Just measure it at the wheels and be done with it. Wheel Horsepower is what moves the car.
Introducing a guesstimate into a measured value is pointless. You are introducing error for no good reason.
Good point
Speaking facts
+ 1million Use the dyno for tuning or direct comparisons. Trying to manipulate the numbers for comparisons beyond that is bad form. And never forget that no matter how big the fan and how expensive the dyno, it is _not_ the real world - which is why we still race them instead of comparing power to weight.
So where that HP comes from! Crank or wheels ? 🧐🧐🧐
@@jazzypurewal4839 Can't measure it without pulling the engine, so trying to estimate it from wheel hp is just adding uncertainty, It's also why you don't compare across dynos.
Oooh you’ve done it now!
Ferrarichat is going to give you a life time ban.
I'm a Ferrari fanboy, but it pisses me off when they lie about their numbers. They may not have technically lied about the horsepower of the engine, but the weight thing definitely makes me mad.
@@alexcambata8724 Typical ferrari
@@alexcambata8724 The simple fact is that McClaren *lied* and therefore had the power AND weight advantage. Why should Ferrari fanboys be mad for Ferrari actually playing fair???...
jappa Kneads Ferrari lied about the weight though, and when I say I’m pissed I mean I’m pissed at Ferrari for overrAting their power outputs and curb weights. I don’t see anything wrong with Mclaren underrating their engine outputs for example. Ferrari is my favorite brand, but I wish they’d act better as a company sometimes
@@alexcambata8724 Ferrari OVERRATED their Pista's weight.
McClaren UNDERRATED their 720s' power...
Connect the dots...let science do the rest.
Drop being a fanboy for ANY car company.
They WILL cheat if it means more $$$$ ultimately coming to their shareholders...
Dont worry the 765LT will have like 815 real hp lol
...yeah and McClaren will claim 705 HP....Lol!!...
@@JappaKneads lol no they would claim 765 hp or a little less
Well if it is 11% loss from the dct that would put the 765LT around 850 crank hp. 😱
Exactly the 720s already makes around 800bhp
th-cam.com/video/5PoDNZFK-5M/w-d-xo.html - LP765 on top gear 😏😏😏
Very interesting. 11% is pretty small and impressive. Again, show the Mclaren producing way more HP than they advertise too. Now wonder it demolishes everything!
DoctaM3 More impressive is that McLaren claim a drivetrain loss of 4.8 percentage on the 720s...Now that’s what you call alien technology.. 685hp is spot on with 4.8 percent taken off...
Boomboom
Very much doubt it’s a 4.8% loss. They just lied about the power.
@@projectr2451 check out McLaren’s drivetrain loss for yourself .... American motorsports engineering is so far behind Europeans race tech its bordering dinosaur. Why there’s never been an American F1 team in present times ....The technology used for F1 is planets apart from Indy car .....
Boomboom
Ferrari isn’t American... I just don’t believe that the drivetrain loss is 4%... it’s that they simply underrated the power.
@@projectr2451 it makes no difference to me if you believe McLaren’s figures or not... me, I’d rather believe in a multiple championship F1 winning formula over a dyno car turner that says otherwise
The differential affects drivetrain loss too, with open (720S) being most efficient. I think the Pista has a e-LSD and not sure about the GT. That said, McLaren definitely wins the award for sandbagging their car specs!
They always did...
doesn't 720s also have a LSD ? but 1 thing I always wondered ..why McLarens pull harder than other cars even when they have almost same amount of HP. so turns out McLaren states power at the wheels vs other brands power at flywheel.
@@MJ-rr4hd no it has an open differential, but it’s highly efficient with minimal drivetrain loss. And yes mclaren power figures are underrated for sure
@@Kovalser I did few research on mclaren. open differential is probably not the best.....but Mclaren seems to be doing just fine. but using brakes to do torque vectoring ....is kinda not efficient. its gonna wear the brakes faster right? I think they introduced E-LSD few years back right?
First time I've gotten a factory estimate of drive train loss for a DCT. Thanks Brooks!
the ferrari is doing so well then in comparison
The McClaren would do *the exact same numbers* if it had the same slightly lower specs.
Science rules. If BOTH cars are having the same specs....how could one pull away like that (on the top end) from the other?...Both Ferrari and McClaren KNOW what they are doing relative to wind tunnel testing and drag coefficient variables etc...
Only fanboys overlook science and favours a specific car company over the other.
Fanboys are dumb...
@@JappaKneads If you think specs are only weight and power then you're quite wrong. Aero, wheels, weight distribution, tires, rims, gears, tunes all change the way a car performs, the mclaren pull the top end because of the sheer difference in power, the small difference in the weight should still give it an advantage in the start as well, but the pista keeps up still. That is why I said the ferrari is doing well in comparison. If you meant that i am a fanboy that is dumb then i hope after reading this you understand a bit more about cars.
@@Blaze637 Well u have to factor in gearing in the lower speeds + the fact that McLaren is running bigger turbos which create more lag, therefor the pista does get the jump on the 720s. + The Pista isn't suppose to compare to the 720s it's suppose to compare to the 765LT.
MrZyLeXx
Nope. 12C competed against 458 Italia. Their successors the 488 GTB and 650S competed. So how can the Pista compete against the 765LT? When the F8 Tributo competes with the 720S...
@@projectr2451 They're both track cars, 720s is a GT supercar unlike the 488 pista. The track cars should compete against themselves. 650s is just a facelift 12c.... The Tributo is not suppose to compete with the 720s im pretty sure.
I always had a hunch.
No wonder McClaren's "710 HP" is producing more speed than other 710 HP vehicles...
At least Brooks has proven to be up front scientific and honest...Thumbs up bro!!...
above 30mph you can start to factor aerodynamics
I love the Ford GT, but no one can deny, that 720 is fast af
7:50: That's technically "weight to power" ratio. Pounds divided by HP. Which is why it makes sense that the 720S has a lower number.
It's funny how the 720S has flat out more power AND a considerably better power to weight ratio because it's lighter, yet it still loses to the 488 Pista in track battles when both have the same tires.
BeyerT1 that all boils down to the driver that’s driving the 720s... other words, you need a stig kinda driver diving both cars around the same track with both cars on the same tyres .... you’ll be surprised what the results will be.. McLaren’s are no joke.... UK 🇬🇧 engineers are second to none when it comes down to, freedom open rules ..
@@Boomboom-ox9hn i mean the pista got a 7:00 on the ring and 720s got a 7:08 and pista was on the better tires
Pista also has more downforce and is more expensive to be fair AND its basically track focused so it makes sense
Tyrell Burrowes it was a lot faster on top gear track too
@@bigjdm5460 top gear track doesnt test much, im talking real tracks and the pista does win but by a small margin
Damn that is crazy it was 1 HP difference on the Pista! Sounds pretty accurate to me
Dan Coyne
Pista is 710Hp and 720 Ps.
So the difference is 11 Hp
it would seem that way but not really. Go to a different dyno and the car can make 20hp less or more. Also put a different Pista on the dyno. It will make different numbers.
I saw a 720 dyno test a few years ago and it put out 696 hp to the rear wheels so Drag times was spot on with their results. The 720 is a beast. I do want to see the Pista kick its ass but the Pista has to go on a diet and lift some weights.
Love the vids Brooks
Are we going to see some McLaren 765LT action soon? 💪
It‘s probably going to be slower than the 720s.
Suga how do you figure? It’s lighter, more powerful and has more aggressive gearing to cancel out the increased drag.
Considering the data, the pista performance vs 720 is rather impressive.
I heard from Ford as well that the DCT was roughly taking a 11% drivetrain loss.
Yup, that's what he said too.
Can u plz metion in metric units?? Maybe somewhere in the corner. Thnx
So the real question is, when is your 765LT coming because we know you are definitely grabbing that?
as soon as possible! :)
@@DragTimes Yayyyy! :)
Is the 765 really coming in September
Something many don't know about most factory crank hp numbers is, they're testing with all accessories, full exhaust for said vehicle with the air filter and air box.
Many things also affect chassis dyno's. Too many times people I've seen people not been in the right gear for a 1.1 trans ratio. I know I'm not the only one that's seen that either. If you have a new car but changed the rear gear that will change want you see at the wheels. Many also think the opposite of what happens with rear gearing too. Going from a 3.55 gear to 3.73 gear will slow less power actually. I know many think it's the other way around but it's not. Tire size is another one. Changing say a 315-30-19 to a 315-40-19 will make the tire height 2ins taller. Going from a 30 to 40, 40 to 50, etc on avg is a 2ins different in height. With all other numbers being the same. So obviously going from a 30 to 35 is about 1 in.
Thing to remember is, many of these things are rules of thumb. Unfortunately many sometimes see them as more of facts.
Dyno's should be seen as a just a tool to see what happens when changes are made.
Bragging about dyno numbers doesn't mean shit a racer. It's not what a car makes at the wheels. It's how much you can get to the ground as quickly as possible that wins races.
You gotta remember the Ford GT has Carbon Wheels, Carbon ceramic brakes and a dual clutch with a mid engine so that’s the least rotational mass you can have in a car
Apart from the horsepower advantage. Nobody can compete with McLaren until they start making carbon tubs. McLaren lightweight will be advantage forever until Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche etc start doing the same.
That's impressive that the Pista kicks the 720S ass around every track but the wet course with that much less HP and more weight. Ferrari knows how to make a car handle. The SF90 Stradale vs 765LT will be fun to watch but my money is on the Ferrari.
Best info yet. Fantastic correlation of hp to weight ratio with rational data. Very good job.
Keep in mind Dynojets also read differently depending how the set up parameters are done. They have to sync'd exactly alike in order to be compared to other dyno's. The only real way to test this is to dyno a car on one dyno, then on another, and keep the variance in mind.
Brooks, there is NO way you’re not buying a 765LT, seriously if anyone is meant to have one it’s you
It's the only car worthy of replacing the 720s, only a Mclaren can do better than a Mclaren.
Thanks man, was making me mad because the numbers didn't make sence when compared to the races, should have been really close yet the 720s clearly had an advantage! The 11% drivetrain loss in todays day and age seems correct. Really cool video
So my question now is: You're paying taxes for 720 hp but it actually makes well over that number. Can the competent authorities fine you or McLaren afterwards for "tax evasion" now that the real numbers are out or how would this be handled (if so at all)?
Awesome vid, thanks for all the numbers!
Brooks, I hope you've got a deposit down for a 765LT!
I know p1 owners are lowkey mad 🤷🏾♂️
nah they still own one of McLaren's greatest creations.
deshay Bailey how do you think Senna owners feel?
deshay Bailey i feel the P1 drivers aren’t nearly as competent on a drag race as Brooks. Brooks on a P1 should definitely blow a stock 720s
Conor why else be conservative about the 720’s power. Mclaren wants to make it seem like there is a big difference between the two cars. When in reality the 720s is only a half second slower than the p1
Augusto O.R the p1 would win by no more than a half second
Not sure why manufacturers underrate their engines. My 2020 M2 Competition is officially 405hp and it dynoed at 425hp to the wheels bone stock which would put it around 480 hp with the 11% DCT loss. I'm not complaining, but it's interesting as to why they do it.
_"Not sure why manufacturers underrate their engines."_ ....???
Ever heard of marketing, human perception...and *MONEY??* ....
Great video Brooks. Nice being able to compare super cars like this
Where are all the morons who claimed it's "alien technology" now? I been saying forever it makes much more hp than advertised and is very light, that's why it dominates so many other supercars. Thanks for the video.
❤️
Great work Brooks. Finally someone who can give us a real comparison. I thought there would be about 35-40hp difference at the wheels but it's a bit more than that...
What really aggravates me is that the vast majority of car companies go with crank horsepower. Wtfs the point of crank horsepower. Am I buying an engine or a car? Give us the wheel specs because I'm not riding a block.
Interesting info! However, the drivetrain loss percentage is not fully linear (i.e. if you will detune 720s to 300HP, it will not reduce the drivetrainloss to 33HP and vice versa if will tune it to 1000HP, the drivetrain loss will not increase to 110 HP). It will slightly reduce with the increase of the HP. Thus, assuming, that 720s drivetrainloss is similar to Ford GT, the real loss number migh closer to 10%.
The 720s is a fkn beast. Definitely the supercar to have right now.
@jon doe thanks smart guy
If it doesn't break
@@MassiveBig the car to have is an gt3 rs Imo
All relevant information. Lets not forget how slippery the Mclaren is with active aero.
Brooks... You NEED the 765LT!!!!!!
Explains a lot, good informative video! Thanks
21-24 hp is what the Pista needs to offset 200 lbs. The Pista was starting to very slowly pull on the 720s up top when they shut down in the Autobahn run.
Interesting info there, especially the 11%. The Pista is unusual as the torque is limited in gear to make it more like an NA car, are Fabspeed going to remap it to make the boost same for all gears too? The effect would be interesting, although perhaps not as nice to drive, if you prefer an NA type engine response. The Ferrari's get good marks for drivability in that regard.
Gale Banks was a guest on The Smoking Tire Podcast and said that drivetrain loss on a chassis dyno is not a set percentage that magically sucks up more power the more you make. Here is a time stamped link to podcast #389 at the 1:33:13 mark th-cam.com/video/O5LMi8y-MTk/w-d-xo.html
I think most people have known for a long time that the 720s was making more HP than what McLaren were claiming !
Did they start the dyno at 3800rpm on the 720S and at 2000 rpm on the pista?
Could have been nice to see if the 720S could keep the clear advantage everywhere on the curve.
I knew it. I said Pista would make 50-80hp less than 720s.
The Italians, both the Charging Bull and Prancing Horse need to get their rears in Gear, admit they've been beat, and Redeem Themselves !
Lmao the pista is faster than 720s on any track
@@emmanuelperrina6105 I doubt that, espicially on a track with a lot of straights
@@xfiazc07 www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6633-7218.htm
@@emmanuelperrina6105 Let's ask Brooks @Dragtimes
@@xfiazc07 Ferrari has problems, 720s can keep up on a track despite not being fully track oriented, Lamborghini doesn't care because svj has the ring time
Seems that cars of this caliber should come from the factory with a performance sheet showing individual dyno results for that particular vehicle. I assume they don't, other than going thru in-house test verification like that of the Ford GT.
Great investigation into the drivetrain losses! I think you could take the torque curve into consideration rather than just HP numbers though. Torque = speed as well,so the Pista may not need another 100hp to match the 720S. I’d probably look to tune that engine accordingly, maybe fatten the torque through the low to mid range?
Im not an expert, but they were forcing air into the 720s and not on the pista? Wouldn't these effect the performance?
I'm surprised Ferrari doesn't do this for how expensive they are for one, but also because of how prestigious they try to be. McLaren , Porsche and BMW all dyno close or equal to the number the car manufacturer says the car makes. My guess is there is no "legal" way of horsepower claims. Most manufacturers just do crank horsepower because its higher. My F80 M3 zCP claims 444hp and I've seen dyno numbers from 443 - 446rwhp. That's 500hp if the DCT has the same power loss. I was calculating a 12% ballpark loss at 505hp before this video.
Please get a GT2RS on the same dyno to see the difference
Great video
Thank you for taking the time to educate on numbers
i wanna see pista do drag race!!!
So Ferrari is lying about the PISTA's weight. Claiming its lighter than the Mclaren when its actually much heavier.
Why lie about your own underrated specs??...baffling....
Tyler Evans
Ferrari didn’t lie
Ferrari claimed the pista weights 1280kg dry with no fuel and oils with no fucking passenger
@@the-Boss-rs I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings?
11 percent drivetrain loss only applies to cars with the engine that sits on the drive wheels .
Front engined rear drive and AWD has more power loss , and even more so if equipped with conventional auto trans
Why are the front rollers spinning on the 720S dyno run, are they linked front and rear? Could that mean the loss is even higher than 11%?
If it's not like that the traction control kicks in.
Not surprised at all, we already knew the 720S was faster than the Pista. Basically, McLaren lied about their true horsepower figure. That is hardly impressive at all. Ferrari or anyone else for that matter could make a car and say it has 720 HP when in fact it has a truckload more and then proceed to beat the living daylights of the McLaren equivalent that's all. Plus, McLarens break down all the time.
Great video! Very informative
4:50 [SAE Smoothing 5] like God intended.
Great content! Did I miss the 765LT discussion?
That explains a whole lot, why the 720s keeps dominating car after car after car. And Brooke's car even dynoed 690whp which does not equate to McLaren's claim of 710 crank. I figured this car was mad underrated
Typical McClaren. It shows how the public is soooo gullible and ignorant to science..
What about the new 911 turbo s? Is as fast as the 720
765lt whp might be comparable with 918 whp
So the new 765LT
Is gonna have more horsepower than a demon at 841.5hp?
A tiny bit less @11% but that hardly matters it will be faster
Excellent video!
Great video!
Starts to calculate stuff: BIG BRAIN TIME
Thanks man. Finally I now know why the car is that fast
Very good review on this comparison, Thanks!
Impossible to come up with exacting drive train losses because each engine is going to be a little different in tolerances no matter what.
Ok now i know why 720s is so fast(786hp). But yeah that transmission shifts scarely fast
Brooks, dont you mean weight to power ratio? If you divide the weight by the power, you get those numbers. You get the 4.5 and 5.2 numbers
I always knew that the 720S had more power than was said, but I never imagined it would be so much. even so McLaren deserves congratulations on selling a 786hp car for the price of a supercar
Said a lot of shit, Ferrari since the 458 that the ECU does not release 100% of the power in RWD dynamometer, the ECU recognizes that the car is stationary and does not release full throttle opening and the Pista continues to beat 720s on all circuits, the first time Pista lost on the circuit was in Germany in a test bought by Mclaren a few weeks ago!!
it was on a linked AWD dyno....
hennessey dyno'd their 720s and senna, the 720 made 675whp, the senna made 725whp (814hp with 11% loss) so the 765lt should be around about 800hp
HEY I HAVE QUESTION DO THINK YOUR CAR 720S IT CAN BEAT F1,H2R MOTORCYCLE,CHIRON, KOENIGSEGG,VENOM GT. IN 1/4 MILE?
Now we need your thoughts on the 765 and the new turbo s!
Great info 👍
If true, which is true, what Pista does is even more impressive now! 720s is a beast though!
Ricardo all day err day 👌
Then from the other hand imagine the pista with same exact power and weight, it would be slightly faster than 720s
765LT is launched bro
Is it the 720s replacement in your garage?
Maclaren didnt lie about HP because they are cool guys like nissan with the R34. They did it so that people wouldn't laugh at the price of a P1 when its essentially the same car for a fraction of the price
would be cool to know the turbo pressure difference between the 720s and the pista throught the rev range. I have the feeling the 720s gets a bigger 'help' from the turbos compared to the pista. I dont think that the 720s engine in itself is better than the pista otherwise ferrari wouldnt win years and years in a row best international engine of the year.
Here’s the problems with bench racing and that’s what all this dyno crap has become. There are no two dyno’s that will ever read exactly the same even if there sitting side by side and it doesn’t matter who the manufacturer is. You also then have ambient temperature, humidity, dew point ( air density ) and true altitude etc etc. . Then there’s the fact that you can take 3-5 cars that are identical in every way and 1 of them will make considerable higher hp ( all the moon and stars were inline the day that was built ) proper break in probably plays a roll in that too.
Dynamometer’s are a tuning tool and nothing else.
You can not correctly calculate drivetrain loss using a Dyno, you’ll come up with a different % of loss every time you put it on a Dyno .
Some cars have less power than the losses of these...
For us car guys... its about the numbers as much as its about the feel.
😈😈😈
The 720s is the fastest Supercar in its category (with the GT2RS, Ford GT, Huracan Performante, 600lt, Ferrari 488 Pista, F8 tributo, R8 Performance, Nissan GT-R NISMO, and possibly the AMG GTR Black Series). But it has 785ps not 720ps, so that is a big advantage over the other Supercars. I believe that the only Supercar that will stop the 720s is her brother the new 765lt. (McLaren's SuperSeries are kings in straight line)
awesome video and awesome observation.. love the numbers videos.. any real car guy would
Great commercial... I use AdBlock Plus because of commercial time. The way you introduce your commercial is very interesting and real. I hope to buy one of these wallets. Thank you for this.
So the senna makes 900 hp?
i am curious about gt2rs 😁