@@mcwolves71oh yeah? go play a few missions with the sniper or arc shotgun or any of the various ARs that are worse than the default one those guns are soooo good I'm sure
@@mcwolves71 Try saying with all your heart that the Liberator concussive and penetrator is good on higher difficulties, people already had a small pool of guns that were effective and they keep gutting them, the other guns SUCKED, they either have goddamn awful TTK, too low bullet count or too much recoil or the penetration they had didn't mattered at all, either one of those combinations or all at once, the IB was good because it did well exactly what the primaries are made for... killing terminid chaff.
@mcwolves71 Another asinine elitist comment. 100% a level 10 with your whole squad using the starting gear and strats, and then you might have a leg to stand on. What? All of a sudden, you want reliable weapons?
the reason why the incendiary breaker nerf upset alot of players is because they're talking from a high difficulty POV [9 and 10] with almost every chaff replaced by alpha commanders, guards and hunters in overwhelming numbers. Even when they had 6 mags, it would be quickly depleted after one bug breach. It forces players to bring supply backpacks which creates less variety in their loadouts, and when there's less options to choose = less fun. Players are angry because devs always use the word "realism" to only put the player at a disadvantage while ignoring the other faction having infinite rockets. do you see the oxymoron? it's unfaithful to their own vision and players just want to have fun.
Depends how you're using it. I've kept it as an incendiary weapon (one which trades upfront damage for burn damage over time) and it's not a problem. It doesn't guzzle ammo (I'm a shield user on the bug front) and clears just as effectively as it did before. I would have argued I never emptied fully on Difficulty 9 with it before and 9/10 is fairly similar post nerf. If you use it as a spray and pray weapon, of course it'll struggle. And this is probably where Arrowhead could have taken an extra step: I believe they only saw it as a "light your enemies on fire" weapon. But there's a large contingent of players who mag dump their automatic shotgun into the closest enemy. And the Breaker Spray and Pray still struggles for damage, so all players who abandoned the original Breaker went to the Incendiary. Increasing the damage of the Spray and Pray (and maybe upping the magazine size) that would certainly make the intentions more clear: pick the Spray and Pray for dumping ammo and the Incendiary if you want to let things cook over time.
I was with Arrowhead when the first nerfs happened, but they've completely lost me at this point. I want gear to be dangerous to enemies and friendlies alike, i want them to be cool and feel powerful. I also want the game to be challenging and make players improvise and evolve their strategies. nerfing a shotgun does not mean im going to use the literally useless counter-sniper suddenly. fix the bad guns. if they want the game to be harder, add more difficulties. they literally just did this, add more. Just because the top 1% of players are beating helldive too easily doesnt mean that the entire playerbase should be punished at all difficulty levels i guess thats why they are down 90% players now
They need to adjust other weapons instead of nerfing things that are fun. That said, I'm glad they chose this way to nerf it instead of decreasing it's power. I've started using the Cookout instead 🤷♂️ the stagger with the fire damage is so nice.
Am I supposed to replace a premium weapon with the new premium weapon every few warbonds? I already grinded to unlock one and they drove it into the ground for a similar offering. I have no reason to pick up the new one when they’ll just nerf it for the next parallel offering.
@@xv6701 No, my point was that I'd rather they improved underused guns instead of nerfing overused ones. I'd be using the Cookout and loving it even if the I-Breaker had 6 mags again because it has stagger and the I-Breaker does not 🤷♂️
Some folks say every other gun is bad, I tend to disagree as the arc blitzer, eruptor, the jar dominator, plasma punisher all put in good work on either side. Even the railgun is back in effect.
Railgun is insanely good against automatons. Doesn’t require backpack (but best with supply pack because the ammo economy is mediocre). One shot everything except tanks, factory strider and gunship. Very good handling. Extremely accurate. No bullet drop.
@@Wayne-rd4yx Railgun is okay against automatons, if you plan to suffer against gunships and factory striders that is, the AMR/AC are way better options that doesn't require charge and doesn't risk you getting blown up to get extra damage, what the railgun can do, the AC/AMR does better, even the HMG outclasses it now since it can drop gunships easier than the railgun do, sickle and explosive xbow sucks against bots though, they require a lot of shots and they don't do damage in a meaningful way, you can at best kill the terminator enemies fast, but you're struggling with anything else.
The Plasma Punisher is terrible against bugs, it can’t even one shot a Hunter. The Eruptor is just a worse version of the Railgun. It takes multiple shots to take out a single Bile Spewer, while the Railgun consistently 2-taps Bile Spewers, Charger legs, and one taps Brood Commanders. Most primaries are useless in Helldivers 2.
Great video tbh. When I see people use the incendiary breaker they mostly spray at range so I can see why the nerf has impacted them so much. Totally agree about how this brought the weapon more in line with the others. I am a little skeptical about the importance of a weapon's usage rate being high since using the "meta" pick has become a large cultural staple of modern games. I think the response to this nerf from the community is too negative but just part of the norm with how people play now. I really hope AH sticks with their choices
There is no problem with wanting the coomunity to use other weapons. The problem just lies their approach. People use a small selection of weapons because they work. Others do not. So the philosophy can just be to buff.
@@dennisdavis6943It’s only power creep if all weapons are good to begin with. 90% of Helldiver’s guns are unusable against Terminids. There cannot be power creep if everything is bad to begin with.
In my opinion, its actually the enemies that needs balancing not necessarily the weapons. Heavy Devastators accuracy is insane, Factory Striders melts you within seconds, Roket Devastators ragdoll you forever, Most if not all meta weapons against bots have stagger or one shot potential, making ARs worst while they can be actually viable if you weren't getting mowed by Heavy Devastators, i dont have a problem with other enemies except Heavy Devastators they are insane 😢
Nah your tripping. They shouldn't release 6 shitty versions of 1 gun and then nerf the 1 thats actually good. I would still be using the normal breaker if they didnt remove ammo from it, you kill 2 enemies and then your looking for ammo. Its clear they have been overly nerfing the reliable weapons because they are "too reliable" 😂 They didnt even say it was OP did they? I dont even like the Incin breaker so i have little to no reason to defend it, but their weapons balancing Logic is ass backwards 95% of the time
The change does indeed help balance out the weapon compared to its contemporaries on a technical level. Technically, the spray and pray is no longer obsolete, it offers a longer total up time for lower dps. However this doesn't mean that the spray and pray suddenly starts giving players what they want. Against bugs a lot of average players are constantly worried about surviving the next wave of enemies, they need a weapon that quickly and easily deals with the problem. If I need something to get me out of a crisis, then the incendiary's qualities still far outshine the other automatic shotguns (want good dps and a large mag). If I care about total up time, the blitzer lasts forever and has a lot more unique qualities going for it. If I want something unremarkable then I guess the breaker can fulfill that role..
I started to value the Spray and Pray for its close range performance compare to the Incendiary, hunters can easily attack you while burning and set you on fire as well, not to mention the risk of burning other divers next to you.
why did people pick it tho? Oh yeah because if you don't pick it you're gonna have a shittier time you are being swarmed so weapons that hit a large area of bugs consistently will almost always be chosen over single target it doesn't make sense to bring a gun thats only good at killing single low armor targets especially when they are coming at you in groups of 20-30+ any weapon that can kill multiple bugs in a single button press will always be better than the alternative unless its technically unlimited ammo and right now there is a gun that has both capabilities and is quickly taking the rank of Meta. You can only fix the meta but giving more options not taking them.
Fire breaker can still spray you just have to be a bit more conscious about the ammo In my opinion it doesn’t have a low ammo count now, it has a medium ammo count now Making it exactly the middle of the other 2 breakers For me, the fire damage still puts it above the blitzer of f used correctly
The plasma Punisher mag nerf was compensated for by increasing the projectile speed and flattened trajectory which made it MUCH easier to use. It went from a gun I wouldn't touch to my top 3 bot guns. We got nothing to make up for the Fire Breaker mag nerf.
Fire Breaker is still best in class chaff clear. They nerfed it to the same level as the other good guns (it's still my joint first choice for high difficulty bugs).
Theoretically the 3 shotguns you compared all have a niche but in practice the I-breaker is still much better than the other 2. You just pair it with an Autocannon for medium-heavy enemies since it 1 shots brood commanders and 2 shots bile spewers and you don't run out of ammo. It's the new meta and Ah won't touch the Autocannon because it's their favorite.
I have 420 hours in and I have tried all of the weapons. I would use the IB for bugs because it was effective. It certainly wasnt OP. I'm just tired of them nerfing stuff because it gets used... This makes zero sense. How about making other guns more viable and people would use them. I've put in a lot of time since the nerf and I'm just not having fun with it anymore... They lost me on this one. I did like your approach to this video though.
I'm musing what it would've been like if they'd nerfed the Toasty Breaker... and hadn't touched the Flamethrower family of weapons at all. One wonders.
It wasn't fun to use in the first place, and gibbing mags make it less fun. It fills a specific role that you want filled on 9 & 10. One of the squad is required to bring one. One. I have never dropped in where everyone was using the IB. When i play with my usual squad we argue over who is going to be forced to take the IB. Its light pen & is sub par against anything other than birds or hunters, but you want someone capable of dropping 15 birds or a pack or two of hunters quickly because they usually show up with there are 7 chargers and a handful of titans and everything else. SOLUTION: upgrade things like mag count will rank/levels. Level 3 cadet, you get 4 mags because you are fighting fewer enemies in less important areas. Level 138 you get 8 mags because you are a general & are sick and only fight on 10. We spend more tax dollars per soldier on navy seals when compared to an infantry grunt. Seals dont use "standard issue," because they aren't standard. They are exceptional, & so is their equipment. If they want realism, giving higher levels more specialized equipment with specialized training (i can learn how to swim 10 feet with gear on instead of drowning for instance 🙂) would seem more realistic to me. Maybe at level 100 we get "extensive training " passive that gives us like 30% of what the peak physique gives us. Or we learn a skill "contraband " at level 75 and are able to sneak another grenade and another mag, or able to have one supply pack on drop in. Another one i think a lot of people would level to get is something like "grit" or whatever name that is a passive skill earned after x level or x amount of missions are completed that reduce hit flinch by 30%. There are ways to balance over 10 difficulties and gibbing ammo aint it. Holy crap thats long. Im sorry.
Buff other guns that suck : nope Nerf the effective one : yes yes yes I'll still playing this game but there's no way I'll spent more money on it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We have like 15 super effective weapons, and 20 effective weapons that can be perfectly used at max difficulty with no problems So that thing if the "the effective one" is not true
@@nanasuyoru It was used a lot because it was OP as fuck, and it got nerfed basically because it was OP as fuck It happens the same in all the game, I don't know wtf you all surprise so much and repeat like if it was something, weird. OP things are used more, and OP are nerfed, that doesn't mean that the reason of the nerf is just because "it's used a lot". This just shows how root you all have the brain to repeat like parrots a stupid things like this, someone said it and you repeat it even if it doesn't have any fucking sense. Breaker Incendiary was OP and was going to get nerfed yes or yes and everyone knew that
It's just good at what it does as a horde clear weapon and it struggle with a big one like bloodcommander while another gun suck in all aspect, dev should buff other guns to be more viable not nerfing the viable one.
@@divinelyshpongled they already nerfed the ammo count on the breaker and s&p which turned them go garbage too So why not bring them back up instead of dragging the other one down to their level?
Arrowhead has had the issue of everyone using the same stuff since the start if the game. The erupter, the slugger, the railgun, and the response for all of these is to nerf them into the ground so deep that as a level 104 player i have seen 2 people use the railgun as a support weapon since it was nerfed. The method arrowhead has been using is if a tool is too popular they nerf it, which isnt fun for the players since they loose their favorite gun, and it makes it less fun of a game since we are geting progressively weaker and weaker weapons which makes us the players feel less cool. Feeling cool being genuinely one of the big draws to the game, hence why half the helldivers clips on youtube are titled "least cinematic heldivers 2 moment" Arrowhead wants all their stuff to be used, i get that, but the way to to fix that is to buff other weapons and making them fun rather then nerfing a fan favorite and making it unfun
Your breaker comparison actually shows that the standard breaker is better, because it does high damage at a higher range, with the same ammo economy...
A better solution would have been to lower the incendiary breakers direct damage and boost the burn damage over time. This would then allow you to set everything in fire, with a spray, but then have to evade the enemy or waste ammo with more direct damage to compensate. It would also prevent it from wrecking chargers as quickly, which I know arrowhead hates too much utility in one weapon. And then you could buff the shittiest gun in the game, the spray n pray, to have more direct damage to move it into a usable tier... And it could then be used to slap the ass of chargers...
Also, you are literally explaining the type of gameplay as the cookout... Slowly managing your ammo, letting enemies burn to conserve ammo, or swapping to your secondary. This is what the cookout is for, to push enemies back with a bit of damage, let them set ablaze and cook a bit, while you finish them off with further attacks or secondary - from range.
Why is making me reload more often a good change? All you have to do is run the supply pack and your ammo issues are gone. It just made it more irritating to use. It also doesn't make me want to use the other garbage weapons either.
I think you spent most of the video documenting that the IB was better than the alternatives, which is something that everyone agrees with. Where the difference lies is in whether or not you should move the better gun downwards or the lesser guns upwards. I think you can argue that moving the better gun downwards requires less work from the balancing team, to make the guns closer in power. But that begs the question in where does the dev team want the balance point to be between the guns and the enemies. If you adjust the balance of the IB downwards, and keep the enemies the same, you are making those users less effective and they feel bad about it, so if 30% of the users were using IB, now 30% of your users feel bad. If you adjust the balance of the other guns upwards, and keep the enemies the same, the IB users stay the same and other gun users feel more powerful and better. Arrowhead also could have made the enemies easier so that the IB users kept feeling the same level of difficulty, but they didn’t. Instead they made the enemies harder on each level and for 30% of the people, they made the guns they use weaker. In the end, having a weapon be too powerful hurts no one. The people that think it’s too easy just switch weapons to one that’s more challenging. The people that think the game is unfun because the weapons no longer work for their skill level switch games to ones that they think are more fun. I think if they’re going to try and knock everyone down a level of difficulty or two, they should explicitly say that the game was too easy for their higher skilled players and they needed to shift the difficulty levels, rather than saying that certain guns are too good and that only unskilled players were cheesing them.
I really think they should just add more difficulties up to like 15, let players that want a hard game choose them and let players who want an easy game stay where they are I see absolutely no benefit to forcing these sweeping changes on the entire community just because a minority of players are too effective
Only a tiny bit fraction of the players were complaining the game was too easy, like i could count in my fingers the ones who really said that while playing on diff 9, the rest were clowns playing on lower difficulties.
@@gorway6807 If 10 difficulty levels isn't enough, 15 won't be either. There will still be people who drop on max difficulty, can't manage it, and demand things be made easier (either by enemy nerfs or weapon power creep).
I believe you have failed to understand what's the community issue with these nerfs. It's not about making this weapon "fix into the sandbox", it's about the fact that every other weapon in the sandbox sucks (major ass) at their jobs. Me personally, I'm not a pro-player of this game...I have 100+ hours (which is a lot for my standards) and I don't even use the incendiary breaker...I usually run with ARs and I can tell you they are almost useless in any "serious" difficulty....they eat too much ammo when killing enemies and the best course of action when using them is just avoid the fights as much as possible... If you want to get a clearer understanding of what I'm saying, please consider watching this video: th-cam.com/video/XqkpCF38j74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=k_NOS-Qje4-A1bnS DISCLAIMER: No, I'm not affiliated with that channel, I don't even know who the guy is and truth be told, I'm not even subscribed....I happened to find his video in my recommended about 2/3 days ago and I agree with almost everything he says. He explain the problem is the most clear and direct way possible, while also, offering solutions to such problems.
It's really not that hard to balance the weapons. Just a few Stat changes. Now I know I sound like the people in the subreddit but there are some weapons that are just bad. what is the point of the normal diligence if the diligence counter has more damage, medium armor pen, and the only negative is a bit more recoil and ( I think this but I'm not sure) and less ammo. And the breaker spray and pray does less damage then the incendiary breaker, doesn't do fire damage and but you get 1 more ammo in the clip and 4 more magazines but why would I choose it if I can bring the supply pack or just find ammo on the ground. It's just stuff like this that ruins the balance because we have weapons that are just worse versions of other weapons. I feel like they should reverse the recoild nerf they did to the breaker Inc but make it have 5 magazines anddo like 200 damage and the breaker spray and should do 250 or something like that. That would give both weapons a use. The doray and pray would be morw damage upfront and the incendiary would do more damage overtime.
@@el-low6663 In reality does more damage because the Breaker Incendiary have a super huge absurd spread (on purpose to spread the fire) so you don't really hit with a lot of pellets to the same enemies. While the Spray & Pray have a spread of a shotgun, so when you shot to enemies the pellets hit them That is the problem of when you just look at 2 numbers to do a decision, instead of really play the weapon and seeing what it does in the battlefield
@@muglokdecrepitus1301 thats right. the spray n prays spread is somewhere in the middle between the regular breaker & the incendiary. Its perfectly placed as a mid-ranged spraying shotgun. I was quite surprised at how fun & effective it was at clearing groups of light armored bugs
@@Mogz-hd Yah, it's a lot of fun, yesterday I played some games with one build with the Spray and Pray that was incredibly fun. The build was: * Spray & Pray * Senator * Impact Grenade * Arc Thrower * Liberator Guard Dog * Rocket Launcher Sentry * Orbital Precision Strike At the beginning I thought that I was trolling because the build had 0 long range options, but when the breaches started to appear and the screen filled with enemies in all directions (it was a LvL 9 game) the build became a killing machine, I ended the first game that I played with that with 700 kills, which is didn't expect Super fun and recommended build
The biggest problem I have with the breaker incen is the fact they ignore the biggest thing that sets apart the gun from others mainly its fire rate and DoT. Both of those things are great but together they allow you to burn everything on a battlefield. I think nerfing its magazines is the worst thing they could have done to fix it.
The bi nerff is justified because it was op and still is one of the best bug gun. But I can see other way to add more gun verity, if u buff other weapons then they are all good so u don't anger the community
It's not this the problem sdubed, the problem is there's no other weapon which is relevant in high helldiver difficulty. And you don't need to nerf working weapons, just boost the other trash..,
The flame thrower should have never been affected by this fire vs armor nonsense. It was a great high risk tactical weapon for fighting chargers. Now it does nothing to them.
The problem was the flamethrower was too effective at pretty much everything except the Shriekers (which the IB was used to kill instead) and Bile Titans (and even then you could harm them if you were forced to fight them). It trivialized the Chargers, and given this is supposed to be a tactical shooter leaning more towards challenge than power fantasy it was a given the flamethrower would get nerfed. Though honestly, it really didn’t make too big a difference IMHO, it just takes a little longer to kill them and you aim at Charger’s butt after using a stun grenade (which everyone using a flamethrower would use to make their jobs easy even before the nerf).
@@JC-eo2qe I don't know about it trivializing everything. I didn't see flamethrower users in every game like I see rocket turret users or quasar cannons. In most games player had to use strategems or tank killing weapons to fight chargers. Especially when the threat of multiple Bile Titans was common. I was the rare one in the group who would bring a flame thrower to a bug match. Incendiary Shotgun was more often used than a flamer.
I see your point about how it has it's place compared to the other shotguns but I can't help but disagree. The IE breaker vs the other 2 is clearly the better pick but that is because the other options are lacking. I feel that if they returned the breaker back to 16 rounds or whatever it was pre nerf that would help. spray and pray was criminally bad at launch and even with its buff its not good. While removing 2 mags is not the end of the world for IE breaker it didn't make the game more fun to play. I think arrowhead need to focus first on bringing up lower pick weapons so they can compete with the "reliable" ones. Anyway thanks for the interesting perspective, I might not be a fan of it but it helps to understand it a bit more. Also I was kinda a hater when you came out with your purifier vid but I tried it the other day and enjoyed multikilling bot troopers, feel the damage could still use a bump but it's not as bad as I thought it was.
Or maybe just give spray n pray even more ammo count to make it the highest???? see that works too in your balancing matrix to add on, spray & pray mag size was nerfed from 32 to 26. so basically you are justifying nerfing fire breaker bcus spray and pray was nerfed. this is why everyone is upset. the nerfing becomes a casading effect to all weapons while enemies remain unchanged.
It's the same crap as always the reason people switched to the incendiary is because other weapons got nerfed and it got buffed, then when enemies got a buff the incendiary started burning through ammo on helldive level, i cant tell you how often ive ran dry using the incendiary so its a big big nerf, ive been busy so haven't played since the latest patch but id imagine people are gonna drop the incendiary on higher difficulty and it'll just become another noob gun
So.... they would rather change nothing than change something. Well thats time well spent don't you think? Cause I don't, people still use the incen breaker, this changed nothing.
The nerfs only makes sense on AH dev heads and a few of their doormats like this dude, the breaker incendiary was good for one thing, clearing chaff, it required too many shots for anything else heavier than a warrior, this game was supposed to be fun, not a fucking snorefest of running, reloading and scrambling for ammo, people wants to SHOOT guns, not run away like little girls, why the hell people think nerfs will make the game fun ?, if you're saying the problem is just lower the difficult, i can just fire back at you guys to not use the damn weapon, not that hard right ? i keep my weapon you keep your "challenge"
@@Tamachii12 the whole point is to run away. What part of being out numbered, infinitely spawning enemies, and your an expendable grunt did you not understand?
@@greenleader7386 Ah yes, the piss poor lazy excuse to make players weaker, you're supposed to be grunts, Helldivers are the Elite soldiers of Super Earth, you're either a grunt or elite soldier which they clearly say on their own game intro, you're either an elite or a grunt you can't cherry pick one when it is convenient for the devs.
@@Tamachii12 your just showing that you don’t understand what the whole game is about. And you can be elite and a grunt. But being elite doesn’t mean you just can’t die. And the intro of the game is propaganda its the lore of the game. Super earth spends a little more on helldivers equipment. But you are obviously very expendable.
@@Mogz-hd ? I guess I confused you what game or difficulty do you play that it takes that amount of ammo(with inc. breaker) on those enemies( charger and impaler)?
How is nerfing a weapon being good at the higher difficulties a good thing? All it highlight that everything else is bad at those difficulties. If that a good thing from your logic then the Auocannon should being nerf. This Breaker Incendiary nerf made the auto cannon an S+ Stratagem on both side on the front, and we know they won't touch it because they will be a huge riot.
You don't compare between a primary and a support weapon. The only support weapons AH nerfed were the Railgun and the Quasar Cannon. They have buffed almost all the other support weapons especially the HMG, the LC and the MG-43 which are significantly more powerful now. Arc Thrower was reworked to have shorter range but added stagger.
@@Misfiring89 Hunks got a change were they increase it stagger level because the AC thrower will put it in a stagger loop and couldn't do any attacks. So again, the arc thrower is useless at those difficulties. The Pummeler just like the incendiary breaker was nerf because it was a primary that was good at thing people use it for.
If they wanted to increase the pick rate of other weapons, then make those weapons reliable. It's lazy to nerf the most reliable option into near uselessness. These are the facts of the matter. The nerf was so wrong that not even apologists like you can justify it without sounding foolish.
I agree with your assessment. The Breaker Incendiary being adjusted down is a good thing. This community is so toxic over anything that can be called a nerf. I didn't like the Breaker Incendiary anyways, preferred the regular Breaker instead. There are plenty of other viable weapons for the bugs. Blitzer and Adjudicator being two of my top picks. Scorcher + MG-43 combo is lots of fun.
The spray and prey was obsolete because it sucks people aren’t gonna use it just because they nerf a better option your take on this subject is just wrong dude. In what world does nerfing a good gun make a bad gun better idk about you but that makes zero sense
Let's be clear: the breaker inc was a little too good. But I preface a LITTLE. Any nerfs too it should have been minor, and should have been to its direct damage, not ammo. The biggest problem is that all of the other weapons are so bad. To make a good balance, the other primary weapons need to be brought up, while the breaker inc should have been brought down only a little
@@northlandphoenix you have to use it more on the move to create time for the fire damage instead of like before just standing in place while spraying. It makes if feel more active and less brain dead
glad u like the vids homie. sorry about AI in thumbs.. i do try to use it sparingly.. and when i do use it i generally try to add a lot to the thumb as well (like just using AI for the background or certain elements) but yes the last 2 thumbs have been more AI than usual sorry about that.. i try to keep things fresh n interesting.. i want my vids to be engaging, and sometimes that means using AI. appreciate the feedback my dude
Yes it was broken and had the terminids not gotten WAY harder with alpha commanders, impalers, spore chargers and D10, I would have agreed with the nerf
another fix would be buffing the other guns to the point that they would be picked. which wouldn't go against the wishes of the player base ^^ and then would allow them to shift the numbers of bugs and armor to throw at us. the breaker and spray and pray could have just been buffed to achieve this same result as in your video.
Taking one fun gun that is better than two not fun guns and making the fun gun bad too isn't balance. Its just making everything bad and not fun. Stop defending bad game design by appealing to spreadsheet balance when what matters is moment to moment gameplay fun.
OK, we have 26 primary guns in the game and only 6 of them are mostly viable for high level dives vs Terminids. How about making other 20 primary guns a little bit better… SG-255IE had it’s nerf coming for sure.
that's what they're doing by balancing the guns.. they're making each gun more relatively "good". It's ALL relative. If all guns are weak and 1 gun is strong, and you reduce the strength of the 1 strong gun, you're balancing it by making all other guns relatively better, and rebalancing the difficulty levels at the same time. It isn't that complicated man.
Baseline of Arrowhead’s balancing nowhere near ”relatively good” that’s the big issue here. Why would you want to force extremely underwhealming primary guns into your builds that will struggle with most situations. I like when weaponds have clear up and downsides, but if it’s bad at everything what is the point? Pummeler was very interesting primary that Arrowhead added to the game, little bit better than avarage (not even close to inc. Breaker level) and got hit with a nerf next patch. This seems to the way for them to balance things, but it will ultimately hurt the game more in the long run.
@@ilovedemocracyy The game has varying difficulties... so if you're able to do really high difficulties with a gun that the devs consider OP, then clearly they're trying to balance the difficulty levels and want people to be doing lower difficulties, and only doing the higher ones when they're obviously VERY good at the game with very good tactics.. so whatever balancing that's going on with weapons, is also related to balancing difficulties. There is no "good" or "bad" guns in the devs eyes.. there's just guns that unbalance the difficulties, and guns that don't. Guns that can be used to just run and gun, and guns that can't. They will ALWAYS prioritise making all guns not able to run and gun, because the point of the game is squad play.
@@divinelyshpongled Of course there are different difficulty settings for HD2, but enemy health will stay the same no matter what you will choose. There’s only more deviation with the amount of armored enemy types. Part of progression is to jump into harder missions and I would guess that most play between 5-7 difficulty. Even at those stages you will notice how mediorce most of the primary guns are. Playing with a team is always much more easy and punishing for solo. I enjoy this game a lot more with squad play and sometimes try out other strategies solo and see what works for my playstyle. It’s clear that devs want to incentivize squadplay more with less power for indivitual player. Deep Rock Galatic does squad play and weapond balancing very smoothly and every one can pull their weight with massive hords coming at you. Progression with every weapond keeps me wanting to learn more tactics. Meanwhile in HD2 your primary damage out put is cut down to 1/4 and you have to rely on stratagems and support weaponds to deal damage. This is the vision devs want, but not the most of the customers.
he wishes he was bro.. would be a ton more money.. he's just an open minded and reasonable dude who is trying to think of the game from their perspective because you know.. they made it.
in what sense is it clickbait or low effort... ? i dont really understand what you mean. The vid is about the reason for the nerf. And also how to use the gun now... thats exactly what the title says.
the main issue isnt that the gun is good, its that every other gun is bad. thats why everyone is upset
But every other gun isn't bad. People who feel they are should just lower the difficulty.
Sorry but thats simply not true. Especially bug Gameplay is very forgiving. The breaker imcendiary simply was more powerful than all others.
@@mcwolves71oh yeah? go play a few missions with the sniper or arc shotgun or any of the various ARs that are worse than the default one
those guns are soooo good I'm sure
@@mcwolves71 Try saying with all your heart that the Liberator concussive and penetrator is good on higher difficulties, people already had a small pool of guns that were effective and they keep gutting them, the other guns SUCKED, they either have goddamn awful TTK, too low bullet count or too much recoil or the penetration they had didn't mattered at all, either one of those combinations or all at once, the IB was good because it did well exactly what the primaries are made for... killing terminid chaff.
@mcwolves71 Another asinine elitist comment. 100% a level 10 with your whole squad using the starting gear and strats, and then you might have a leg to stand on.
What? All of a sudden, you want reliable weapons?
Everyone is using the Blitzer now. It didn't fix the problem at all.
brother, ive BEEN using the blitzer, its always been my preferred terminid weapon
next on the chopping block then i'd say
Cookout has entered the chat...
the reason why the incendiary breaker nerf upset alot of players is because they're talking from a high difficulty POV [9 and 10] with almost every chaff replaced by alpha commanders, guards and hunters in overwhelming numbers. Even when they had 6 mags, it would be quickly depleted after one bug breach. It forces players to bring supply backpacks which creates less variety in their loadouts, and when there's less options to choose = less fun. Players are angry because devs always use the word "realism" to only put the player at a disadvantage while ignoring the other faction having infinite rockets. do you see the oxymoron? it's unfaithful to their own vision and players just want to have fun.
Depends how you're using it.
I've kept it as an incendiary weapon (one which trades upfront damage for burn damage over time) and it's not a problem. It doesn't guzzle ammo (I'm a shield user on the bug front) and clears just as effectively as it did before. I would have argued I never emptied fully on Difficulty 9 with it before and 9/10 is fairly similar post nerf.
If you use it as a spray and pray weapon, of course it'll struggle. And this is probably where Arrowhead could have taken an extra step: I believe they only saw it as a "light your enemies on fire" weapon. But there's a large contingent of players who mag dump their automatic shotgun into the closest enemy. And the Breaker Spray and Pray still struggles for damage, so all players who abandoned the original Breaker went to the Incendiary.
Increasing the damage of the Spray and Pray (and maybe upping the magazine size) that would certainly make the intentions more clear: pick the Spray and Pray for dumping ammo and the Incendiary if you want to let things cook over time.
I was with Arrowhead when the first nerfs happened, but they've completely lost me at this point.
I want gear to be dangerous to enemies and friendlies alike, i want them to be cool and feel powerful. I also want the game to be challenging and make players improvise and evolve their strategies. nerfing a shotgun does not mean im going to use the literally useless counter-sniper suddenly. fix the bad guns.
if they want the game to be harder, add more difficulties. they literally just did this, add more. Just because the top 1% of players are beating helldive too easily doesnt mean that the entire playerbase should be punished at all difficulty levels
i guess thats why they are down 90% players now
They need to adjust other weapons instead of nerfing things that are fun. That said, I'm glad they chose this way to nerf it instead of decreasing it's power.
I've started using the Cookout instead 🤷♂️ the stagger with the fire damage is so nice.
Am I supposed to replace a premium weapon with the new premium weapon every few warbonds? I already grinded to unlock one and they drove it into the ground for a similar offering.
I have no reason to pick up the new one when they’ll just nerf it for the next parallel offering.
@@xv6701 No, my point was that I'd rather they improved underused guns instead of nerfing overused ones.
I'd be using the Cookout and loving it even if the I-Breaker had 6 mags again because it has stagger and the I-Breaker does not 🤷♂️
Some folks say every other gun is bad, I tend to disagree as the arc blitzer, eruptor, the jar dominator, plasma punisher all put in good work on either side. Even the railgun is back in effect.
Railgun is insanely good against automatons.
Doesn’t require backpack (but best with supply pack because the ammo economy is mediocre).
One shot everything except tanks, factory strider and gunship.
Very good handling.
Extremely accurate.
No bullet drop.
@@shadowmoses7431 agreed, even things like the explosive crossbow and sickle are great wepons on both sides
@@Wayne-rd4yx Exactly You can 1 shot the new rocket armed walkers. Plasma punisher/Railgun/stun grenades/AC sentry and unleashing havoc on the bots
@@Wayne-rd4yx Railgun is okay against automatons, if you plan to suffer against gunships and factory striders that is, the AMR/AC are way better options that doesn't require charge and doesn't risk you getting blown up to get extra damage, what the railgun can do, the AC/AMR does better, even the HMG outclasses it now since it can drop gunships easier than the railgun do, sickle and explosive xbow sucks against bots though, they require a lot of shots and they don't do damage in a meaningful way, you can at best kill the terminator enemies fast, but you're struggling with anything else.
The Plasma Punisher is terrible against bugs, it can’t even one shot a Hunter. The Eruptor is just a worse version of the Railgun. It takes multiple shots to take out a single Bile Spewer, while the Railgun consistently 2-taps Bile Spewers, Charger legs, and one taps Brood Commanders. Most primaries are useless in Helldivers 2.
Great video tbh. When I see people use the incendiary breaker they mostly spray at range so I can see why the nerf has impacted them so much. Totally agree about how this brought the weapon more in line with the others. I am a little skeptical about the importance of a weapon's usage rate being high since using the "meta" pick has become a large cultural staple of modern games. I think the response to this nerf from the community is too negative but just part of the norm with how people play now. I really hope AH sticks with their choices
There is no problem with wanting the coomunity to use other weapons. The problem just lies their approach. People use a small selection of weapons because they work. Others do not. So the philosophy can just be to buff.
That's called power creep and can lead to other issues down the road. When balancing you need to both improve the bad stuff, and nerf the good stuff.
@@dennisdavis6943It’s only power creep if all weapons are good to begin with. 90% of Helldiver’s guns are unusable against Terminids. There cannot be power creep if everything is bad to begin with.
@@dennisdavis6943 no that is not.
@@dennisdavis6943 most stuff is flat out unusable. We are far from "powercreep". And even further this is a PvE game.
In my opinion, its actually the enemies that needs balancing not necessarily the weapons. Heavy Devastators accuracy is insane, Factory Striders melts you within seconds, Roket Devastators ragdoll you forever, Most if not all meta weapons against bots have stagger or one shot potential, making ARs worst while they can be actually viable if you weren't getting mowed by Heavy Devastators, i dont have a problem with other enemies except Heavy Devastators they are insane 😢
Nah your tripping. They shouldn't release 6 shitty versions of 1 gun and then nerf the 1 thats actually good. I would still be using the normal breaker if they didnt remove ammo from it, you kill 2 enemies and then your looking for ammo. Its clear they have been overly nerfing the reliable weapons because they are "too reliable" 😂 They didnt even say it was OP did they? I dont even like the Incin breaker so i have little to no reason to defend it, but their weapons balancing Logic is ass backwards 95% of the time
The change does indeed help balance out the weapon compared to its contemporaries on a technical level.
Technically, the spray and pray is no longer obsolete, it offers a longer total up time for lower dps.
However this doesn't mean that the spray and pray suddenly starts giving players what they want.
Against bugs a lot of average players are constantly worried about surviving the next wave of enemies, they need a weapon that quickly and easily deals with the problem.
If I need something to get me out of a crisis, then the incendiary's qualities still far outshine the other automatic shotguns (want good dps and a large mag).
If I care about total up time, the blitzer lasts forever and has a lot more unique qualities going for it.
If I want something unremarkable then I guess the breaker can fulfill that role..
I started to value the Spray and Pray for its close range performance compare to the Incendiary, hunters can easily attack you while burning and set you on fire as well, not to mention the risk of burning other divers next to you.
why did people pick it tho? Oh yeah because if you don't pick it you're gonna have a shittier time you are being swarmed so weapons that hit a large area of bugs consistently will almost always be chosen over single target it doesn't make sense to bring a gun thats only good at killing single low armor targets especially when they are coming at you in groups of 20-30+ any weapon that can kill multiple bugs in a single button press will always be better than the alternative unless its technically unlimited ammo and right now there is a gun that has both capabilities and is quickly taking the rank of Meta. You can only fix the meta but giving more options not taking them.
so do a lower difficulty? They're trying to balance the difficulties too you know?
Fire breaker can still spray you just have to be a bit more conscious about the ammo
In my opinion it doesn’t have a low ammo count now, it has a medium ammo count now
Making it exactly the middle of the other 2 breakers
For me, the fire damage still puts it above the blitzer of f used correctly
The plasma Punisher mag nerf was compensated for by increasing the projectile speed and flattened trajectory which made it MUCH easier to use. It went from a gun I wouldn't touch to my top 3 bot guns. We got nothing to make up for the Fire Breaker mag nerf.
Fire Breaker is still best in class chaff clear. They nerfed it to the same level as the other good guns (it's still my joint first choice for high difficulty bugs).
Theoretically the 3 shotguns you compared all have a niche but in practice the I-breaker is still much better than the other 2. You just pair it with an Autocannon for medium-heavy enemies since it 1 shots brood commanders and 2 shots bile spewers and you don't run out of ammo. It's the new meta and Ah won't touch the Autocannon because it's their favorite.
I don't think a backpack support weapon has been nerfed yet. You get premium performance when you use two slots.
IE breaker nerf, OK.
Flame nerf... oh you are shaking the hornets nest
that's part of the idea im sure lol.. it gets view my man
I have 420 hours in and I have tried all of the weapons. I would use the IB for bugs because it was effective. It certainly wasnt OP. I'm just tired of them nerfing stuff because it gets used... This makes zero sense. How about making other guns more viable and people would use them. I've put in a lot of time since the nerf and I'm just not having fun with it anymore... They lost me on this one.
I did like your approach to this video though.
I'm musing what it would've been like if they'd nerfed the Toasty Breaker... and hadn't touched the Flamethrower family of weapons at all. One wonders.
I think if they brought more weapons up to par that no one ever uses while balancing others would probably fair alot better with the playerbase.
It wasn't fun to use in the first place, and gibbing mags make it less fun. It fills a specific role that you want filled on 9 & 10. One of the squad is required to bring one. One. I have never dropped in where everyone was using the IB. When i play with my usual squad we argue over who is going to be forced to take the IB. Its light pen & is sub par against anything other than birds or hunters, but you want someone capable of dropping 15 birds or a pack or two of hunters quickly because they usually show up with there are 7 chargers and a handful of titans and everything else.
SOLUTION: upgrade things like mag count will rank/levels. Level 3 cadet, you get 4 mags because you are fighting fewer enemies in less important areas. Level 138 you get 8 mags because you are a general & are sick and only fight on 10. We spend more tax dollars per soldier on navy seals when compared to an infantry grunt. Seals dont use "standard issue," because they aren't standard. They are exceptional, & so is their equipment. If they want realism, giving higher levels more specialized equipment with specialized training (i can learn how to swim 10 feet with gear on instead of drowning for instance 🙂) would seem more realistic to me.
Maybe at level 100 we get "extensive training " passive that gives us like 30% of what the peak physique gives us. Or we learn a skill "contraband " at level 75 and are able to sneak another grenade and another mag, or able to have one supply pack on drop in. Another one i think a lot of people would level to get is something like "grit" or whatever name that is a passive skill earned after x level or x amount of missions are completed that reduce hit flinch by 30%.
There are ways to balance over 10 difficulties and gibbing ammo aint it.
Holy crap thats long. Im sorry.
Nobody wants to talk about the "fix" with lasers. They now set things on fire.
The Guard Dog Liberator now reloads from regular ammo crates.
iv seen a few people mention this.. but i have not noticed any fire being created by laser weapons.
if they dont want us to spray with IB, they could have nerfed the fire rate of it, but they wasnt...
Great video. Thank you.
Buff other guns that suck : nope
Nerf the effective one : yes yes yes
I'll still playing this game but there's no way I'll spent more money on it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We have like 15 super effective weapons, and 20 effective weapons that can be perfectly used at max difficulty with no problems
So that thing if the "the effective one" is not true
@@muglokdecrepitus1301exactly.
You guys can try hard and defend the dev all you like but it's a fact that Fire shotgun have been used too much and dev decide to nerf it.
@@nanasuyoru It was used a lot because it was OP as fuck, and it got nerfed basically because it was OP as fuck
It happens the same in all the game, I don't know wtf you all surprise so much and repeat like if it was something, weird.
OP things are used more, and OP are nerfed, that doesn't mean that the reason of the nerf is just because "it's used a lot". This just shows how root you all have the brain to repeat like parrots a stupid things like this, someone said it and you repeat it even if it doesn't have any fucking sense. Breaker Incendiary was OP and was going to get nerfed yes or yes and everyone knew that
It's just good at what it does as a horde clear weapon and it struggle with a big one like bloodcommander while another gun suck in all aspect, dev should buff other guns to be more viable not nerfing the viable one.
Frankly, people still take incendiary, nerf made supply pack much more popular though. Flamethrowers on other hand are mostly gone.
Oh wow, he wasn't joking
He literally made a video trying to justify why less time shooting and more time running away is a good design choice
not really.. he said from their perspective in makes sense to do this. Mogz isn't a game designer .. just a dude with an opinion like you
@@divinelyshpongled they already nerfed the ammo count on the breaker and s&p which turned them go garbage too
So why not bring them back up instead of dragging the other one down to their level?
@@sirpibble no idea bro.. im no expert on the game or even play it much.. im just commenting on mogz's perspective etc.
Arrowhead has had the issue of everyone using the same stuff since the start if the game. The erupter, the slugger, the railgun, and the response for all of these is to nerf them into the ground so deep that as a level 104 player i have seen 2 people use the railgun as a support weapon since it was nerfed.
The method arrowhead has been using is if a tool is too popular they nerf it, which isnt fun for the players since they loose their favorite gun, and it makes it less fun of a game since we are geting progressively weaker and weaker weapons which makes us the players feel less cool. Feeling cool being genuinely one of the big draws to the game, hence why half the helldivers clips on youtube are titled "least cinematic heldivers 2 moment"
Arrowhead wants all their stuff to be used, i get that, but the way to to fix that is to buff other weapons and making them fun rather then nerfing a fan favorite and making it unfun
What I see is " spray and pray" is really the worst, not really IE is the most op auto/burst shotty.
Your breaker comparison actually shows that the standard breaker is better, because it does high damage at a higher range, with the same ammo economy...
A better solution would have been to lower the incendiary breakers direct damage and boost the burn damage over time. This would then allow you to set everything in fire, with a spray, but then have to evade the enemy or waste ammo with more direct damage to compensate. It would also prevent it from wrecking chargers as quickly, which I know arrowhead hates too much utility in one weapon.
And then you could buff the shittiest gun in the game, the spray n pray, to have more direct damage to move it into a usable tier... And it could then be used to slap the ass of chargers...
Also, you are literally explaining the type of gameplay as the cookout... Slowly managing your ammo, letting enemies burn to conserve ammo, or swapping to your secondary. This is what the cookout is for, to push enemies back with a bit of damage, let them set ablaze and cook a bit, while you finish them off with further attacks or secondary - from range.
Why is making me reload more often a good change? All you have to do is run the supply pack and your ammo issues are gone. It just made it more irritating to use. It also doesn't make me want to use the other garbage weapons either.
I think you spent most of the video documenting that the IB was better than the alternatives, which is something that everyone agrees with. Where the difference lies is in whether or not you should move the better gun downwards or the lesser guns upwards. I think you can argue that moving the better gun downwards requires less work from the balancing team, to make the guns closer in power. But that begs the question in where does the dev team want the balance point to be between the guns and the enemies. If you adjust the balance of the IB downwards, and keep the enemies the same, you are making those users less effective and they feel bad about it, so if 30% of the users were using IB, now 30% of your users feel bad. If you adjust the balance of the other guns upwards, and keep the enemies the same, the IB users stay the same and other gun users feel more powerful and better. Arrowhead also could have made the enemies easier so that the IB users kept feeling the same level of difficulty, but they didn’t. Instead they made the enemies harder on each level and for 30% of the people, they made the guns they use weaker.
In the end, having a weapon be too powerful hurts no one. The people that think it’s too easy just switch weapons to one that’s more challenging. The people that think the game is unfun because the weapons no longer work for their skill level switch games to ones that they think are more fun. I think if they’re going to try and knock everyone down a level of difficulty or two, they should explicitly say that the game was too easy for their higher skilled players and they needed to shift the difficulty levels, rather than saying that certain guns are too good and that only unskilled players were cheesing them.
I really think they should just add more difficulties up to like 15, let players that want a hard game choose them and let players who want an easy game stay where they are
I see absolutely no benefit to forcing these sweeping changes on the entire community just because a minority of players are too effective
Only a tiny bit fraction of the players were complaining the game was too easy, like i could count in my fingers the ones who really said that while playing on diff 9, the rest were clowns playing on lower difficulties.
@@gorway6807 If 10 difficulty levels isn't enough, 15 won't be either. There will still be people who drop on max difficulty, can't manage it, and demand things be made easier (either by enemy nerfs or weapon power creep).
I just searched nerfdivers 2 and this video popped up 🤣🤣
I believe you have failed to understand what's the community issue with these nerfs.
It's not about making this weapon "fix into the sandbox", it's about the fact that every other weapon in the sandbox sucks (major ass) at their jobs.
Me personally, I'm not a pro-player of this game...I have 100+ hours (which is a lot for my standards) and I don't even use the incendiary breaker...I usually run with ARs and I can tell you they are almost useless in any "serious" difficulty....they eat too much ammo when killing enemies and the best course of action when using them is just avoid the fights as much as possible...
If you want to get a clearer understanding of what I'm saying, please consider watching this video:
th-cam.com/video/XqkpCF38j74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=k_NOS-Qje4-A1bnS
DISCLAIMER: No, I'm not affiliated with that channel, I don't even know who the guy is and truth be told, I'm not even subscribed....I happened to find his video in my recommended about 2/3 days ago and I agree with almost everything he says.
He explain the problem is the most clear and direct way possible, while also, offering solutions to such problems.
It's really not that hard to balance the weapons. Just a few Stat changes. Now I know I sound like the people in the subreddit but there are some weapons that are just bad.
what is the point of the normal diligence if the diligence counter has more damage, medium armor pen, and the only negative is a bit more recoil and ( I think this but I'm not sure) and less ammo.
And the breaker spray and pray does less damage then the incendiary breaker, doesn't do fire damage and but you get 1 more ammo in the clip and 4 more magazines but why would I choose it if I can bring the supply pack or just find ammo on the ground.
It's just stuff like this that ruins the balance because we have weapons that are just worse versions of other weapons.
I feel like they should reverse the recoild nerf they did to the breaker Inc but make it have 5 magazines anddo like 200 damage and the breaker spray and should do 250 or something like that. That would give both weapons a use. The doray and pray would be morw damage upfront and the incendiary would do more damage overtime.
You should do a video about the Spray and Pray showing how it's way better of what people think (and how melt chargers butts in a moment)
Less damage and no dots for a tighter spread, 3 mags and 1 more ammo per mag? Nah
i actually havent tried the spray n pray against chargers! shoulda tested that when making this vid tbh
good suggestion!
@@el-low6663 In reality does more damage because the Breaker Incendiary have a super huge absurd spread (on purpose to spread the fire) so you don't really hit with a lot of pellets to the same enemies. While the Spray & Pray have a spread of a shotgun, so when you shot to enemies the pellets hit them
That is the problem of when you just look at 2 numbers to do a decision, instead of really play the weapon and seeing what it does in the battlefield
@@muglokdecrepitus1301 thats right. the spray n prays spread is somewhere in the middle between the regular breaker & the incendiary. Its perfectly placed as a mid-ranged spraying shotgun. I was quite surprised at how fun & effective it was at clearing groups of light armored bugs
@@Mogz-hd Yah, it's a lot of fun, yesterday I played some games with one build with the Spray and Pray that was incredibly fun. The build was:
* Spray & Pray
* Senator
* Impact Grenade
* Arc Thrower
* Liberator Guard Dog
* Rocket Launcher Sentry
* Orbital Precision Strike
At the beginning I thought that I was trolling because the build had 0 long range options, but when the breaches started to appear and the screen filled with enemies in all directions (it was a LvL 9 game) the build became a killing machine, I ended the first game that I played with that with 700 kills, which is didn't expect
Super fun and recommended build
The biggest problem I have with the breaker incen is the fact they ignore the biggest thing that sets apart the gun from others mainly its fire rate and DoT. Both of those things are great but together they allow you to burn everything on a battlefield. I think nerfing its magazines is the worst thing they could have done to fix it.
The bi nerff is justified because it was op and still is one of the best bug gun. But I can see other way to add more gun verity, if u buff other weapons then they are all good so u don't anger the community
You would kill this game with nerfs.
It's not this the problem sdubed, the problem is there's no other weapon which is relevant in high helldiver difficulty. And you don't need to nerf working weapons, just boost the other trash..,
The flame thrower should have never been affected by this fire vs armor nonsense. It was a great high risk tactical weapon for fighting chargers. Now it does nothing to them.
The problem was the flamethrower was too effective at pretty much everything except the Shriekers (which the IB was used to kill instead) and Bile Titans (and even then you could harm them if you were forced to fight them). It trivialized the Chargers, and given this is supposed to be a tactical shooter leaning more towards challenge than power fantasy it was a given the flamethrower would get nerfed.
Though honestly, it really didn’t make too big a difference IMHO, it just takes a little longer to kill them and you aim at Charger’s butt after using a stun grenade (which everyone using a flamethrower would use to make their jobs easy even before the nerf).
@@JC-eo2qe I don't know about it trivializing everything. I didn't see flamethrower users in every game like I see rocket turret users or quasar cannons. In most games player had to use strategems or tank killing weapons to fight chargers. Especially when the threat of multiple Bile Titans was common. I was the rare one in the group who would bring a flame thrower to a bug match. Incendiary Shotgun was more often used than a flamer.
Can you guess the weapons that got me over 300 kills in a game today? It's based on one of your builds
laser?
@@Mogz-hdyep
I see your point about how it has it's place compared to the other shotguns but I can't help but disagree. The IE breaker vs the other 2 is clearly the better pick but that is because the other options are lacking. I feel that if they returned the breaker back to 16 rounds or whatever it was pre nerf that would help. spray and pray was criminally bad at launch and even with its buff its not good. While removing 2 mags is not the end of the world for IE breaker it didn't make the game more fun to play. I think arrowhead need to focus first on bringing up lower pick weapons so they can compete with the "reliable" ones. Anyway thanks for the interesting perspective, I might not be a fan of it but it helps to understand it a bit more.
Also I was kinda a hater when you came out with your purifier vid but I tried it the other day and enjoyed multikilling bot troopers, feel the damage could still use a bump but it's not as bad as I thought it was.
Or maybe just give spray n pray even more ammo count to make it the highest???? see that works too in your balancing matrix
to add on, spray & pray mag size was nerfed from 32 to 26. so basically you are justifying nerfing fire breaker bcus spray and pray was nerfed. this is why everyone is upset. the nerfing becomes a casading effect to all weapons while enemies remain unchanged.
Ya another OG helldiver!
It's the same crap as always the reason people switched to the incendiary is because other weapons got nerfed and it got buffed, then when enemies got a buff the incendiary started burning through ammo on helldive level, i cant tell you how often ive ran dry using the incendiary so its a big big nerf, ive been busy so haven't played since the latest patch but id imagine people are gonna drop the incendiary on higher difficulty and it'll just become another noob gun
So.... they would rather change nothing than change something. Well thats time well spent don't you think? Cause I don't, people still use the incen breaker, this changed nothing.
Well done. Again you prove you understand the game, and how it’s meant to be played. It’s not supposed to be easy. And that’s what makes the game fun.
thank you brotha :)
The nerfs only makes sense on AH dev heads and a few of their doormats like this dude, the breaker incendiary was good for one thing, clearing chaff, it required too many shots for anything else heavier than a warrior, this game was supposed to be fun, not a fucking snorefest of running, reloading and scrambling for ammo, people wants to SHOOT guns, not run away like little girls, why the hell people think nerfs will make the game fun ?, if you're saying the problem is just lower the difficult, i can just fire back at you guys to not use the damn weapon, not that hard right ? i keep my weapon you keep your "challenge"
@@Tamachii12 the whole point is to run away. What part of being out numbered, infinitely spawning enemies, and your an expendable grunt did you not understand?
@@greenleader7386 Ah yes, the piss poor lazy excuse to make players weaker, you're supposed to be grunts, Helldivers are the Elite soldiers of Super Earth, you're either a grunt or elite soldier which they clearly say on their own game intro, you're either an elite or a grunt you can't cherry pick one when it is convenient for the devs.
@@Tamachii12 your just showing that you don’t understand what the whole game is about. And you can be elite and a grunt. But being elite doesn’t mean you just can’t die. And the intro of the game is propaganda its the lore of the game. Super earth spends a little more on helldivers equipment. But you are obviously very expendable.
Lol what game or difficulty you play? 4 shots for a charger 1 clip for a impalar
mmm? what u mean exactly?
@@Mogz-hd ? I guess I confused you what game or difficulty do you play that it takes that amount of ammo(with inc. breaker) on those enemies( charger and impaler)?
@@Mogz-hd he's asking what difficulty are u playing where 4 shots for a charger is enough to kill them
@@Diaz-iz2xw enemy health pools and armor values are consistent across all difficulties. so the question actually makes no sense. hence my confusion
i play on 7-9 tho if u just wana know
How is nerfing a weapon being good at the higher difficulties a good thing? All it highlight that everything else is bad at those difficulties. If that a good thing from your logic then the Auocannon should being nerf. This Breaker Incendiary nerf made the auto cannon an S+ Stratagem on both side on the front, and we know they won't touch it because they will be a huge riot.
You don't compare between a primary and a support weapon. The only support weapons AH nerfed were the Railgun and the Quasar Cannon. They have buffed almost all the other support weapons especially the HMG, the LC and the MG-43 which are significantly more powerful now. Arc Thrower was reworked to have shorter range but added stagger.
@@Misfiring89 Which was then nerf when they buff the enemies to not get stagger anymore. So the Arc Thrower is useless at those difficulties.
@@Underground3 Only chargers get buffed to stagger less, and cannot be stun by Pummeler.
@@Misfiring89 Hunks got a change were they increase it stagger level because the AC thrower will put it in a stagger loop and couldn't do any attacks. So again, the arc thrower is useless at those difficulties. The Pummeler just like the incendiary breaker was nerf because it was a primary that was good at thing people use it for.
If they wanted to increase the pick rate of other weapons, then make those weapons reliable.
It's lazy to nerf the most reliable option into near uselessness.
These are the facts of the matter. The nerf was so wrong that not even apologists like you can justify it without sounding foolish.
good video, good opinions, i agree
Wouldn't it make more sense to buff other weapons up too the incendiary SG, instead of nerfing the gun everyone was having fun with?
I agree with your assessment. The Breaker Incendiary being adjusted down is a good thing. This community is so toxic over anything that can be called a nerf. I didn't like the Breaker Incendiary anyways, preferred the regular Breaker instead. There are plenty of other viable weapons for the bugs. Blitzer and Adjudicator being two of my top picks. Scorcher + MG-43 combo is lots of fun.
The spray and prey was obsolete because it sucks people aren’t gonna use it just because they nerf a better option your take on this subject is just wrong dude. In what world does nerfing a good gun make a bad gun better idk about you but that makes zero sense
@@SamuraiiBIack bcs “good” and “bad” are relative terms
Sadly, a lot of players are upset about this nerf. And now only a single sector separates automaton space and super earth.
Let's be clear: the breaker inc was a little too good. But I preface a LITTLE. Any nerfs too it should have been minor, and should have been to its direct damage, not ammo. The biggest problem is that all of the other weapons are so bad. To make a good balance, the other primary weapons need to be brought up, while the breaker inc should have been brought down only a little
I for one completely agree with the nerf and love the new feel of the weapon, the breaker inc still remains as my first choice for bugs
What do you mean? It feels the same, just with less ammo.
@@northlandphoenix you have to use it more on the move to create time for the fire damage instead of like before just standing in place while spraying. It makes if feel more active and less brain dead
@@superninja9695 thats exactly right.
I love your vids but really dislike the use of AI in your recent thumbnails
glad u like the vids homie.
sorry about AI in thumbs.. i do try to use it sparingly.. and when i do use it i generally try to add a lot to the thumb as well (like just using AI for the background or certain elements)
but yes the last 2 thumbs have been more AI than usual
sorry about that..
i try to keep things fresh n interesting.. i want my vids to be engaging, and sometimes that means using AI.
appreciate the feedback my dude
people still say breaker IE would have low ammo, no it doesnt... it's still like 125 shots
Yes it was broken and had the terminids not gotten WAY harder with alpha commanders, impalers, spore chargers and D10, I would have agreed with the nerf
If they didn't change how fire damage works, then I wouldn't sweat the incendiary breaker nerf. But oh well
If they didn't change it you'd have a Primary and Secondary killing Behemoths in 2 seconds from the front.
no
another fix would be buffing the other guns to the point that they would be picked. which wouldn't go against the wishes of the player base ^^ and then would allow them to shift the numbers of bugs and armor to throw at us.
the breaker and spray and pray could have just been buffed to achieve this same result as in your video.
Taking one fun gun that is better than two not fun guns and making the fun gun bad too isn't balance. Its just making everything bad and not fun. Stop defending bad game design by appealing to spreadsheet balance when what matters is moment to moment gameplay fun.
OK, we have 26 primary guns in the game and only 6 of them are mostly viable for high level dives vs Terminids. How about making other 20 primary guns a little bit better…
SG-255IE had it’s nerf coming for sure.
that's what they're doing by balancing the guns.. they're making each gun more relatively "good". It's ALL relative. If all guns are weak and 1 gun is strong, and you reduce the strength of the 1 strong gun, you're balancing it by making all other guns relatively better, and rebalancing the difficulty levels at the same time. It isn't that complicated man.
Baseline of Arrowhead’s balancing nowhere near ”relatively good” that’s the big issue here. Why would you want to force extremely underwhealming primary guns into your builds that will struggle with most situations. I like when weaponds have clear up and downsides, but if it’s bad at everything what is the point?
Pummeler was very interesting primary that Arrowhead added to the game, little bit better than avarage (not even close to inc. Breaker level) and got hit with a nerf next patch. This seems to the way for them to balance things, but it will ultimately hurt the game more in the long run.
@@ilovedemocracyy The game has varying difficulties... so if you're able to do really high difficulties with a gun that the devs consider OP, then clearly they're trying to balance the difficulty levels and want people to be doing lower difficulties, and only doing the higher ones when they're obviously VERY good at the game with very good tactics.. so whatever balancing that's going on with weapons, is also related to balancing difficulties. There is no "good" or "bad" guns in the devs eyes.. there's just guns that unbalance the difficulties, and guns that don't. Guns that can be used to just run and gun, and guns that can't. They will ALWAYS prioritise making all guns not able to run and gun, because the point of the game is squad play.
@@divinelyshpongled Of course there are different difficulty settings for HD2, but enemy health will stay the same no matter what you will choose. There’s only more deviation with the amount of armored enemy types. Part of progression is to jump into harder missions and I would guess that most play between 5-7 difficulty. Even at those stages you will notice how mediorce most of the primary guns are.
Playing with a team is always much more easy and punishing for solo. I enjoy this game a lot more with squad play and sometimes try out other strategies solo and see what works for my playstyle. It’s clear that devs want to incentivize squadplay more with less power for indivitual player.
Deep Rock Galatic does squad play and weapond balancing very smoothly and every one can pull their weight with massive hords coming at you. Progression with every weapond keeps me wanting to learn more tactics.
Meanwhile in HD2 your primary damage out put is cut down to 1/4 and you have to rely on stratagems and support weaponds to deal damage. This is the vision devs want, but not the most of the customers.
I can't agree. Sorry.
Only someone that works for Arrowhead would say these things. This guy is part of their publicity PR campaign.
he wishes he was bro.. would be a ton more money.. he's just an open minded and reasonable dude who is trying to think of the game from their perspective because you know.. they made it.
It’s a pve coop game, you should make micro adjustments not single-minded nerf
Counter argument. Nerfs are not fun. Its pve. Mocking the realizm arguments, its 12ga.
Thank you for being transparent in your low effort clickbait title. Makes it really easy to ask to algorithm to not recommend your channel.
in what sense is it clickbait or low effort... ? i dont really understand what you mean.
The vid is about the reason for the nerf. And also how to use the gun now... thats exactly what the title says.
Maybe no nerf good wepons in PVE and start buff bad wepons idk logic PVP players in PVE game xF