They can't confirm if the curvature of the ball is completely out of the line bcos of the camera angle but can confirm Joelinton's hand on Gabriel isn't enough for him to jump forward like that. How?
Both completely different methods of judgement and aren't mutually exclusive to each other. It's easier to judge the "foul" than the ball being off the pitch because they didn't have a top-down angle
They didnt even use the best camera angles to watch the foul on Gabriel. They did when they looked at the offside position. But then they had allready cleared it. What a joke of a standard.. Best league in the world? Not even close. And its all down to the ref standards.
I was wondering why he wants to go 2 frames forward when 3 or 2 frames behind it was out. and the speed at which they had to close that was suspicious. To me it looked like they were trying everything they can to make sure its a goal as opposed to not.
i didn't see much of a push. But what i did see was him putting his hands on gabriels back which should be a foul. He cant use a player as support and his hands should not be stretch out. He knew what he was doing. . Also gabriel threw himself when he felt the slight contact.
@@PingGod14 So its allowed to have to straight arms in someones neck and push them down and away to win headers? Nice to know... Lets see if it materialize...
@@TommyDidads Well yeah, but that's how it's supposed to work. The on-field referee awarded the goal, so they can only overrule it if they can clearly see that it was a mistake.
@@joepiekl True. But I’m not sure what the point is, when they don’t have the resources or facilities to do there job properly, so they don’t have to guess when making decisions as simple as ‘did the ball go out of play’ There’s goal line tech. Why not have that for all boundaries on the pitch? Simple fix. If your gonna implement something like VAR, which can hugely impact games, u can’t skimp. Embarrassing for ✌️”The Best League In The World”.
Gabriel looked like he was trying to play the ball with his head and missed it coze of Raya & Gordon movement threw him off. IMO not obvious foul. VAR didn't overrule the goal as there is no clear & obvious error with the Ref's onfeild decision. I'd be angry if I were an aresnal fan tho 😅
Stopping Gabriel from jumping upwards with 2 hands on the back. Every game I've watched after this one, fouls have been given for significantly less. The most notable ones are: the CL game where the goal was disallowed for a push in the back (I think it was Inter or AC milan) & most recently in the PL Arsenal vs Burnley where Saka heads the ball goalwards but nudges his defender in the back, his defender doesn't even fall over. I don't get how VAR has not even asked the ref to have a look. Regardless of whether its a push with enough force for him to go down like that or not, it is still a push, and thus should at the very least be reviewed, especially in the case of it deciding whether its a goal.
Thanks bringing the Saka intervention. No one is talking about that?! How the hell not? Also, a few weeks ago, Man Utd's goal wasn't given because they couldn't "conclusively" decide whether the ball was outside or not: th-cam.com/video/1bUZioQC7S8/w-d-xo.html
Seriously it just further proves Arteta is right to rant at the Var decision. 1) why 2 frames on willock’s touch on the ball? Only to show the ball will be in. Which means even they agree the ball is already out. 2) Joe’s both hands there on any other day it’s gonna be a foul. Just because Gabriel is not trying to sell it, they can’t say it’s not a foul. 3a) the minute joe get in contact with ball, draw the line, it’s offside with gordon’s left boot against Gabriel’s knee. Use the front cam. 3b) again, the minute joe get in contact with the ball, draw the line on Joe’s right boot to Gabriel’s knee ,joe is also offside on the build up. Use the rear cam. 4)Joe’s handled the ball, the rear cam can see it clearly. but the refs purposely pick the front cam where the ball is hidden in-between Joe to conclude. Obviously from the rear view, the ball touch the stretched arm of joe, the correct question is that a natural position of the arm? No it’s not. it’s stretched out in a unnatural position so that is consider a handball. His arms were in an unatural position also says it shd be a foul intentionally and shd be given a yellow too for creating a foul to gabriel. Obviously it’s too one sided and the refs maybe bought Newcastle 😅 I agree it’s a good job the refs are communicating but It’s an absolute disgrace decision from the VAR With Neolithic incompetence. Arsenal were robbed once again. City are laughing at it as they benefitted the most. 😂
I don't see how the PGMOL can come back to Arsenal and claim that they did everything right here. Arteta has every right to be agrieved about it based on this evidence.
@@liamminerYT The way Arteta came out and said it, PGMOL went on the defensive. That's what happened. They can't say we were wrong as this puts more pressure on them.
@@LawinReborn How about....the right decision the first time, or perhaps consistent decisions in every match across the board or how about real consequence for bad mistakes or how about the FA and media pundits stop protecting the referees but throw the losing manager under the bus or how about every game ending with 11 vs 11 instead of 10 vs 9 or how about referees learn the handball rule and apply it properly in every game.........these are a handful of wants, I have more.
I remember a similar situation where Martinelli was declared offside despite there being no camera angle saying so. The onfield decision got overturned there. Here the VAR seems in a rush to award the goal. One even forgot the rule that it's the 2nd last plater and not the defender for the offside.
"...ALREADY BACK IN PLAY.." That was the dead giveaway! From the moment the VAR guys confirmed on-field decision was a goal, they were only looking for a way to justify their PREFERENCE to let the goal stand.
3 former referees say it's a foul and 300 say it's a contact sport and Gabriel basically was looking for easy foul. This VAR audio is the perfect example of how this technology should be used and what proper communication looks/sounds like.
@@ViktorB1which is what defenders have been doing , basically since the introduction of refs and rules in football ,Sana literally did the same thing last week , and it was given as a foul. Jesus barely pushed fiden with one hand and he was through on goal and the foul was given in cities favor.
@@musondamusonda1205 Defenders are doing it, but in this case Gabriel was found out and now looks even more embarrassing for him and Crysenal. Not every push or touch is a foul. Everyone who plays some sort of contact sport knows that.
Ball looked clearly out, curvature would not have been over. Absolute push from Joelinton. Every friend here at work who do not follow football all said it was clearly a push. Sigh
@@imperturbableoneThere’s was disallowed goal in the UCL (Union Berlin - Napoli) and it was way softer than this. Same with Man City’s first penalty vs Chelsea. Why wouldn’t Gabriel jump to get the ball he’s a tall defender, it’s only because Joelinton has both of his hands on his neck. Clear foul
that main guy is corrupt, he is rushing everything to allow the goal. not even asking the others just conditioning their response. Wonder why, he even sounds scared.
no foul are u blind af do u not see the defender jolt to go head the ball smh stop crying castle played way better ball and deserved all 3 points simple
1. Ball out : I agree no proof the ball was out. 2. Push on Gabriel : please go back to the schoolbench, and revisit the book on the laws of football : Where is it written that a player is allowed to hold the neck of his opponent. Where is it written how hard a player has to push to commit a fault. Revisit laws of physics, and how easy a slight push on an object/subject in the air, (Gabriel has not his feet on the ground), can move it out of the way. 3. Offside from Gordon : WTF??? They concluded a moment before that the ball falls off the hip of Joelinton. Yes the ball is hidden on the left leg, but Gordons foot is way in front of Joelinton right leg. I have experience of refereeing 13years and about 1000games, I am ashamed.
Seems VAR in its current form doesn't work in football. Cricket and Tennis it seems a natural fit. In football they either need far more technology and cameras to remove interpretation or just stick to using more linesmen.
PGMOL refused in the summer to add 3D technology because they wanted to make something with a “more advanced technology” for the upcoming seasons. It just doesn’t make sense, we wouldn’t had all that talk if they added it. VAR can work perfectly if used correctly by Referee’s. One clear example is the Spurs vs Chelsea game
They are saying that there is no evidence that the ball is out 1:14. But i don’t understand why they can’t just zoom out this angle 2:30 until we see the out of play position close to the corner flag, and people wouldnt even question about it because in the angle at 2:30 we can exactly see the line through the goal post so it would be easy to tell if the ball is out or not. Like honestly how could this have an explanation? It’s not hard to zoom out right?
Maybe that's the furthest that camera can zoom out?...doesn't make sense why they don't have a permanent camera on thus angle to judge the whole line of if it's out or not
its because they already confirmed on the frame they were looking at that it was inconclusive. so they pushed it two forward to make sure it was already ball on line/in play afterwards and that there weren't any other frames where it could be more conclusively out. the only load is the one arteta spat out 🤷♂
There were atleast two cases where they say they dont have conclusive evidence which means it could go either ways and yet they rule in favor of the scoring side which is unfair imo, if it is this much contentious then the benefit of doubt should go to the defending side imo !
@@Luke.H19 that's nonsense the whole point of VAR is to correct on field decisions not to stand with it. On field may not be able to detect how contentious it is in real time that's where technology has to come in.
VAR is not the issue, technology is working fine. The people behind the screens are the issue, they clearly don't know the rules and have no consistency. Very alarming, this is not the last time we get VAR issues.
"I don't see a specific foul on Gabriel. I see two hands on his back but I don't see anything of a push that warrants him flying forward like that." Good christ. The VAR official is making a subjective conclusion from objective evidence. Essentially he is saying "Yeah there is two hands on his back but Gabriel reacted incorrectly." I wonder if there was anything at all that might have prompted Gabriel to fly forward like that? Maybe... two hands on his back? Also put this incident next to the foul called on Saka vs. Burnley when his arms weren't even extended at all.
Decision 1: Correct. Ball is still in. Decision 2: Incorrect. Push is stopping defender from jumping properly. ( A bit theatrical though) Decision 3: Correct. No handball. Decision 4: Incorrect. Gordon's leg is clearly ahead of where the ball would be. Hidden or not. Using 3 camera angles is enough to infer the ball is at bare minimum in line win Joelintons body, of which Gordon's leg is ahead of. Liverpool Fan here so I've no dog in this fight, but that goal shouldn't have stood. The Decision is nowhere near as bad as what happened to us at White Hart Lane, as this is alot more subjective and needs more assumptions. But its still a poor one in my eyes.
Why doesnt VAR have 4 cameras on each corner of the field...to judge if its out or not? There will then always be a conclusive decision. Hope they learn from these mistakes. (Doubt it tho)
Exactly. They are babbling words talking over each other. Who is in charge? Show me the evidence. I analyse quiet for few seconds, ask what I need, give me the angle.. give my opinion... inform the referee.
The guys are soo tense it's hard to tell whose in the field and who is in a well conditioned room and still not able to do his job...they only talking over each other
"I don't see anything of a push that warrants him flying forward like that". Joelinton is literally in the air with both hands on Gabriel. What is he even talking about.
IT LOOKS OUT but maybe curvature of the ball..... Also Joelinton is literally mounting a mid air Gabriel, with two hands in the back. I just don't understand.
Anyone notice that he did not want the angle of the ball when it was out he ask for two frames forward where its not easy to make a choice,the ball with two frames forward is the image going round the net and not the image before he says give it two frames forward and he was brain washing the other reff with him trying to rush the Gabriel push , everyone go back and look,dont forgot the people giving us the information is paid by sky sports
I need someone to explain me the new rules: "there's a potential for handball but he's not the goalscorer"... What does that mean? Also confusing: "go 2 frames forward so that the ball is back in play". Why?
No conclusive evidence the ball is out doesn't necessarily mean the ball is conclusively on play either. Therefore, decision should have been " Ball is majority out but no conclusive evidence to back that ball is on play. Then it would have been up to FA to upgrade or add more cameras for upcoming games. This ball would been judged oit of play without VAR based on linesmen direct vision. Overall, an ugly decision that hurts football.
Pause the video-The balls gone out in reality clear on the camera as theres a green strip between the ball and the white line,but VAR cant confirm, play it forward its still in.. how does this make sense??
I am pleased to see that VAR communication is working better now. Especially when asking what the ref's on-field decision was first. But the ball seems to be out of play. Gabriel is no stranger to diving, so it's hard to say if he contact is that significant or not, but Joelinton does seem to push Gabriel when he is out of balance, which makes him not able to challenge for the ball. Everything is clear (more or less), except the ball being clearly over the line. They are talking about "curvature" of the ball, and it makes no sense. I will defend VAR, because it makes the game more fair, but the level of competence of English refs are abysmal. Should hire refs and professionals from abroad. But that takes money out of the pockets from the mafia in PGMOL...
The var can't even have a clear conversation. Why wouldn't they allow the ref to go watch the screen by himself? It's a shame, absolute shame on the var and English Premier league
What I don’t understand is how they used the only inconclusive camera to decide it wasn’t offside but couldn’t do same with the ball being out. At least the only camera we have access to says it’s out. I don’t understand why the subjectivity. These guys definitely got paid after the game.
The ref said “they could be a handball in there as well” 2:02 yet the VAR and AVAR were to busy yapping and they clearly didn’t hear and so didn’t check. Piss poor!
they didn't have to check the handball because it was not the goalscorer and they deemed it not intentional. So it doesn't matter if the ball touched the arm or not it would still be given as a goal under the current rules.
@@timself9092 is his arm in a natural position? does the ball hitting his arm during the sequence leading to the goal being scored? Why did the ref ask about it yet they didn't acknowledge.
wow how can they com to conclusion that there is no foul there.. if joelinton didnt push gabriel he can easily clear the ball.. why didnt he? he isnt a striker.. he was there to clear the ball.. the intention of joelinton is to get the ball from gabriel back.. unless joelinton is infront of gabriel then there is no excuse why gabriel cannot clear the ball.. last season ben white just touch the goalkeeper during corner kick and the goal got chalk off.. this is clear push from behind and two hand touch defender back and no foul.. PGMOL should really be ashamed.. its clear as day.. people think otherwise might be a bit crazy even if judge tell me this is no foul its just to cover up the mess WOW
I think Gary Neville should've watched this before demanding that FA should come out to protect referees. If there's no concluding evidence that the ball was out of play because of camera to detect that angle, . That's more reason the goal shouldn't be allowed. They were in hurry to award because that's the intention from the start.
1. It's very hard to judge if the ball is completely out of play from that angle because of the curvature of the ball. So the onfield referee decision stands as it is not conclusive enough. 2. For the foul on Gabriel, VAR decision is very questionable. If both Joelinton hands made contact the time Gabriel is going for the ball, that's all it needs to come to a conclusion. VAR officials should not worry about whether there is enough force on Gabriel's back or not, the moment they see the hand on the back and the way Gabriel falls, it clearly should be a foul.
Isn't there a camera for corner kicks at the corner that shows the line? We can argue about the ball being out. But come on. Two hands on the back and the ball ricochet led to the goal.
Someone on the field said possible handball and then var ref completely forgets to check handball ? Or intentionally didnt check handball ? Money money money…
shambles. They can see everything and acting like the ball is never out of play, gabi isn't fouled and Joelinton isn't offside. Come on mate if it was other way round any of this situation single handedly would have been enough to rule out arsenal's goal. Var has allowed so many new angles to give correct decisions which otherwise goes unnoticed but even than this guy's don't have concrete protocols to follow.
After hearing this, the right decision was truly made. No definitive evidence to rule the goal out after going through all the protocols? stick to the on-field decision, no apologies needed well done.
On and off-field cheats tbh. Outrageous how the officials did everything remotely possible to give the most reaching benefit of the doubt about all 3 issues assessed here in order to favour Newcastle and award a goal, not to mention Guimaraes staying on the pitch after multiple fouls and violent conduct throughout the game.
Anyone see that Liverpool v Man City game? Man city had a goal ruled out because one of their players “fouled” Alison when all he did was have his hand on his shoulder. How is that a foul and the two hands on Gabriel not a foul?
too many people taking over each other. keep it simple. get another ref to check after main VAR ref concludes his decision. Also, if the on field ref has goal technology on his wrist, why isn't this available to inform him ball out of play ?
So Haaland got a penalty for a minor push vs Chelsea, and this is not a foul? Its not consistent at all, either both are fouls, or both are not. It is that simple
😂😂😂 am amused how they saw two hands of jollington on Gabriel's back but not seeing a push instead saw a massage & spa session to the back of Gabriel😂😂😂
Even referees have become like the government all knowing better than the people on the terraces and the people in the street, everybody seems to be pissed with power these days, very sad.
It is insane how much they talk over each other
sound like a bunch of idiots and the decision proves that
It's called adrenaline
@@DrDanielMasabaIt’s called ‘too many cooks with 2 brain cells between them in the kitchen!’
That's inevitable under the circumstances. If u are just making a statement then it's fine. But if u are complaining... idk
Some refs can’t hear each other talking
They can't confirm if the curvature of the ball is completely out of the line bcos of the camera angle but can confirm Joelinton's hand on Gabriel isn't enough for him to jump forward like that. How?
Both completely different methods of judgement and aren't mutually exclusive to each other. It's easier to judge the "foul" than the ball being off the pitch because they didn't have a top-down angle
He was diving to clear the ball but the Joelington pushed him bro
No reaction at all from the “ fouled “ Arsenal player . No protest . Enough said . There was no foul ….
@@C_J_04after he started diving
@@wengelder9256 Joelington didn't celebrate either. Watch the replay in slowmo
Daylight robbery...these guys as a var team even trying to convince themselves that they came to the right decision😅😢
even hire panels to cover up lol
They did get to the right decision though? (Not a newcastle fan).
They didnt even use the best camera angles to watch the foul on Gabriel. They did when they looked at the offside position. But then they had allready cleared it. What a joke of a standard.. Best league in the world? Not even close. And its all down to the ref standards.
@@frequentclearance9641U are way out mate, watch swimming instead nutty, we all know the corruption!
@@frequentclearance9641They didn’t though? (Also not a Newcastle fan)
He said "two frames forward and the ball is already back in play." That's surely admitting the ball went out?
I was wondering why he wants to go 2 frames forward when 3 or 2 frames behind it was out. and the speed at which they had to close that was suspicious. To me it looked like they were trying everything they can to make sure its a goal as opposed to not.
*clearly* back in play. The frames before are not conclusive as the curvature of the ball could mean it is still in play
already back in play, meaning there's no doubt that it's in at that point, compared to 2 frames behind where it's doubtful
yes the ball went out, he wanted to play it 2 frames forward to tell the ref the ball still in play
yes it was suspicious and shady
How is that not a push.... bizarre
Joelinton got the jump on Gabriel, who stayed under him and then dived to try and win a foul. Clearly a goal.
i didn't see much of a push. But what i did see was him putting his hands on gabriels back which should be a foul. He cant use a player as support and his hands should not be stretch out. He knew what he was doing. . Also gabriel threw himself when he felt the slight contact.
@@PingGod14 So its allowed to have to straight arms in someones neck and push them down and away to win headers? Nice to know... Lets see if it materialize...
Coz it was a dive
@@Luke.H19 Ofc it was. The two extended arms in his neck was just a coincident.
I mean if we ignore the foul, it clearly comes off his left hip which would make him offside, they didn’t really check anything with any conviction
Not offside unless Gordon was ahead of the ball, which is impossible to tell because the ball isn't visible from the side view.
They are hasty and reckless in their judgements and ignore the basics
Nope. This basically translates to, “I dunno!… I dunno!… I dunno! Yup. Award the goal!”
@@TommyDidads Well yeah, but that's how it's supposed to work. The on-field referee awarded the goal, so they can only overrule it if they can clearly see that it was a mistake.
@@joepiekl True. But I’m not sure what the point is, when they don’t have the resources or facilities to do there job properly, so they don’t have to guess when making decisions as simple as ‘did the ball go out of play’
There’s goal line tech. Why not have that for all boundaries on the pitch? Simple fix.
If your gonna implement something like VAR, which can hugely impact games, u can’t skimp. Embarrassing for ✌️”The Best League In The World”.
If Gabriel was a striker & Joelinton was a defender, wouldn't that be a Penalty?
No coz Gabriel dived
No - watch more football
Sure
It’d be a dive
No specific foul? This is insane!
Football is funny like court laws I hear it's not outside, it's not a foul where is Football going
@@vladimirputinuggagamel5642 it's going to boxing match ( Furry vs Ngano) the robbery of the century.
They trying to tell us that Gabriel have hyperlexia 😂😂
Gabriel looked like he was trying to play the ball with his head and missed it coze of Raya & Gordon movement threw him off.
IMO not obvious foul.
VAR didn't overrule the goal as there is no clear & obvious error with the Ref's onfeild decision.
I'd be angry if I were an aresnal fan tho 😅
@@megamitaha723no "clear and obvious" ..."no conclusive evidence" just vague legal talk to get away with whatever they want. It stinks.
Even Joel Linton doesn’t celebrate. Arteta is right. And long may he complain loudly when cheated.
And Saka got punished for much weaker push with two hands on opponent back a week later.
@@kleec495 100 percent
Stopping Gabriel from jumping upwards with 2 hands on the back. Every game I've watched after this one, fouls have been given for significantly less. The most notable ones are: the CL game where the goal was disallowed for a push in the back (I think it was Inter or AC milan) & most recently in the PL Arsenal vs Burnley where Saka heads the ball goalwards but nudges his defender in the back, his defender doesn't even fall over.
I don't get how VAR has not even asked the ref to have a look. Regardless of whether its a push with enough force for him to go down like that or not, it is still a push, and thus should at the very least be reviewed, especially in the case of it deciding whether its a goal.
Thanks bringing the Saka intervention. No one is talking about that?! How the hell not?
Also, a few weeks ago, Man Utd's goal wasn't given because they couldn't "conclusively" decide whether the ball was outside or not: th-cam.com/video/1bUZioQC7S8/w-d-xo.html
@@varunrajput8083did they end up proving whether it was in out out like how they have for this one?
Agreed. Using a player to boost yourself to head a ball has to be a foul regardless. Weird call.
if on field referee has a look then matches cant be fixed
Seriously it just further proves Arteta is right to rant at the Var decision.
1) why 2 frames on willock’s touch on the ball? Only to show the ball will be in.
Which means even they agree the ball is already out.
2) Joe’s both hands there on any other day it’s gonna be a foul.
Just because Gabriel is not trying to sell it, they can’t say it’s not a foul.
3a) the minute joe get in contact with ball, draw the line, it’s offside with gordon’s left boot against Gabriel’s knee. Use the front cam.
3b) again, the minute joe get in contact with the ball, draw the line on Joe’s right boot to Gabriel’s knee ,joe is also offside on the build up. Use the rear cam.
4)Joe’s handled the ball, the rear cam can see it clearly. but the refs purposely pick the front cam where the ball is hidden in-between Joe to conclude.
Obviously from the rear view, the ball touch the stretched arm of joe, the correct question is that a natural position of the arm? No it’s not.
it’s stretched out in a unnatural position so that is consider a handball.
His arms were in an unatural position also says it shd be a foul intentionally and shd be given a yellow too for creating a foul to gabriel.
Obviously it’s too one sided and the refs maybe bought Newcastle 😅
I agree it’s a good job the refs are communicating but
It’s an absolute disgrace decision from the VAR
With Neolithic incompetence.
Arsenal were robbed once again.
City are laughing at it as they benefitted the most. 😂
Something has been compromised for sure. Arsenal would have the same points as City now without this incident.
I don't see how the PGMOL can come back to Arsenal and claim that they did everything right here. Arteta has every right to be agrieved about it based on this evidence.
@@liamminerYT The way Arteta came out and said it, PGMOL went on the defensive. That's what happened. They can't say we were wrong as this puts more pressure on them.
Agree it seem not only PGMOL but the League & Sky sport are in defensive mode
Nice work man.
This is absolutely abysmal. Why do they still have a job?
They did correct what more u want
@@LawinReborn How about....the right decision the first time, or perhaps consistent decisions in every match across the board or how about real consequence for bad mistakes or how about the FA and media pundits stop protecting the referees but throw the losing manager under the bus or how about every game ending with 11 vs 11 instead of 10 vs 9 or how about referees learn the handball rule and apply it properly in every game.........these are a handful of wants, I have more.
they see themselves bosses because they are self-employed, so their main duty is to get $$$ from PIF actually
because PIGmol
so pushing is allowed
They dug their own grave 😭
But NOTHING will be done, PGMOL are CORRUPT.
Who?
Having such poor VAR decisions is an absolute disgrace for the EPL. Arteta is absolutely right to be furious.
I remember a similar situation where Martinelli was declared offside despite there being no camera angle saying so. The onfield decision got overturned there. Here the VAR seems in a rush to award the goal. One even forgot the rule that it's the 2nd last plater and not the defender for the offside.
They saw that but concluded that gordon was behind the ball anyway so it doesn’t matter if he’s past the second man
I think that is ans rashfords ajd many more are one of the reasons this one has stood they clearly have spoken about these situation
They „rushed“ it so much that they nearly took 5 minutes to make the decision?
“….So go two frames forward the ball IS ALREADY BACK IN PLAY….” What more needs to be said??? 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
My thoughts exactly. For something to be back in doesn't that mean it went out
Why try to split hairs to create a conspiracy?
It's the players foot (Willock) that brings the ball BACK into the field of play; Therefore it HAD Gone Out!
"...ALREADY BACK IN PLAY.." That was the dead giveaway! From the moment the VAR guys confirmed on-field decision was a goal, they were only looking for a way to justify their PREFERENCE to let the goal stand.
It just means on that frame it definitely was in play. Before that it's unclear.
3 former refeeres said that goal should have been disallowed, hands on back. So if every players put their hands on opponents back, no free.
3 former referees say it's a foul and 300 say it's a contact sport and Gabriel basically was looking for easy foul. This VAR audio is the perfect example of how this technology should be used and what proper communication looks/sounds like.
@@ViktorB1which is what defenders have been doing , basically since the introduction of refs and rules in football ,Sana literally did the same thing last week , and it was given as a foul. Jesus barely pushed fiden with one hand and he was through on goal and the foul was given in cities favor.
@@musondamusonda1205 Defenders are doing it, but in this case Gabriel was found out and now looks even more embarrassing for him and Crysenal. Not every push or touch is a foul. Everyone who plays some sort of contact sport knows that.
Sorry every push is a foul
Take off your Arsenal glasses. The officials analysed this perfectly and it was right to keep the on field decision.
Two hands on his back, no specific foul! Ironic!
It’s the lack of consistency which is so frustrating. Saka was punished for a similar incident (two hands on the back) only last weekend.
An old man turned ninety-eight,
He won the lottery, and died the next day
Disgrace. Not the referee, but those who in VAR room. Total disgrace.
its not incompetence by the referee, the result was intentional, for the game to be fixed because the goal needed to stand
Ball looked clearly out, curvature would not have been over. Absolute push from Joelinton. Every friend here at work who do not follow football all said it was clearly a push. Sigh
He shouldn’t have dived on a small push, he would have got the foul if he stayed strong
@@imperturbableoneThere’s was disallowed goal in the UCL (Union Berlin - Napoli) and it was way softer than this. Same with Man City’s first penalty vs Chelsea. Why wouldn’t Gabriel jump to get the ball he’s a tall defender, it’s only because Joelinton has both of his hands on his neck. Clear foul
Don’t think people who don’t follow football are a great authority on what’s a foul and what isn’t mate, kinda the opposite
If I were not an Arsenal fan, I'd be really pisd of at Gabie faking a fall. No need to, two hands on the back was enough. Cheats never prosper.
"clearly" out... Simply a factually incorrect statement, even if it happened to be out.
“Two frames forward, stop, stop.” That’s the point now used by Neville and all talking heads to say the ball stayed in play.
Exactly
Before the player put his foot on the ball, it was clearly out 🤔
Fa can charge insane seat prices but not hire adequate referees. Disgrace
Or adding cameras at very important places. They used to add 4th referee in this position, but they cannot add camera.
that main guy is corrupt, he is rushing everything to allow the goal. not even asking the others just conditioning their response. Wonder why, he even sounds scared.
I can’t imagine they didn’t see the foul
They Did, but Money Talks and Truth Walks. PGMOL are CORRUPT.
no foul are u blind af do u not see the defender jolt to go head the ball smh stop crying castle played way better ball and deserved all 3 points simple
Thats not a foul, it would be soft if its given. Its premier league.
Okay, what about manchester united vs Manchester city and Manchester city vs Chelsea awarded penalties?
1. Ball out : I agree no proof the ball was out.
2. Push on Gabriel : please go back to the schoolbench, and revisit the book on the laws of football :
Where is it written that a player is allowed to hold the neck of his opponent.
Where is it written how hard a player has to push to commit a fault.
Revisit laws of physics, and how easy a slight push on an object/subject in the air, (Gabriel has not his feet on the ground), can move it out of the way.
3. Offside from Gordon : WTF???
They concluded a moment before that the ball falls off the hip of Joelinton.
Yes the ball is hidden on the left leg, but Gordons foot is way in front of Joelinton right leg.
I have experience of refereeing 13years and about 1000games, I am ashamed.
Congratulations Ref,
Seems VAR in its current form doesn't work in football. Cricket and Tennis it seems a natural fit. In football they either need far more technology and cameras to remove interpretation or just stick to using more linesmen.
PGMOL refused in the summer to add 3D technology because they wanted to make something with a “more advanced technology” for the upcoming seasons. It just doesn’t make sense, we wouldn’t had all that talk if they added it. VAR can work perfectly if used correctly by Referee’s. One clear example is the Spurs vs Chelsea game
They are saying that there is no evidence that the ball is out 1:14. But i don’t understand why they can’t just zoom out this angle 2:30 until we see the out of play position close to the corner flag, and people wouldnt even question about it because in the angle at 2:30 we can exactly see the line through the goal post so it would be easy to tell if the ball is out or not. Like honestly how could this have an explanation? It’s not hard to zoom out right?
they showed a birds eye view angle of the ball the next day and it was in
@@rorycameron4173 they didnt tho
@@rorycameron4173that's not true😊
Yeah. He asked for GLT angle to be told its not gonna be in there. Well why not? It obviously exists. Maybe not to that far?
Maybe that's the furthest that camera can zoom out?...doesn't make sense why they don't have a permanent camera on thus angle to judge the whole line of if it's out or not
Pathetic, a disgrace to the sport, totally feels like they're being paid off the way they dismiss the foul on Gabriel, something needs to change
😂😂😂😂
What' I don't understand is that he told him to move the video forward 2 frames so the ball looks in .what a load of bullshit 😒
its because they already confirmed on the frame they were looking at that it was inconclusive. so they pushed it two forward to make sure it was already ball on line/in play afterwards and that there weren't any other frames where it could be more conclusively out. the only load is the one arteta spat out 🤷♂
Looked conclusively out until they moved it 2 frames forward
@@wtftequila2417 curvature of ball
There were atleast two cases where they say they dont have conclusive evidence which means it could go either ways and yet they rule in favor of the scoring side which is unfair imo, if it is this much contentious then the benefit of doubt should go to the defending side imo !
If its not clear then it should stick with the onfield decision which was goal. It's not rocket science
@@Luke.H19 that's nonsense the whole point of VAR is to correct on field decisions not to stand with it. On field may not be able to detect how contentious it is in real time that's where technology has to come in.
This is a disgrace😢
Why... everything made perfect sense.
VAR is not the issue, technology is working fine. The people behind the screens are the issue, they clearly don't know the rules and have no consistency. Very alarming, this is not the last time we get VAR issues.
"I don't see a specific foul on Gabriel. I see two hands on his back but I don't see anything of a push that warrants him flying forward like that." Good christ. The VAR official is making a subjective conclusion from objective evidence. Essentially he is saying "Yeah there is two hands on his back but Gabriel reacted incorrectly." I wonder if there was anything at all that might have prompted Gabriel to fly forward like that? Maybe... two hands on his back? Also put this incident next to the foul called on Saka vs. Burnley when his arms weren't even extended at all.
When players take corners, there is a camera shown from that angle. How is that not used for VAR, it's a disgrace!
Decision 1: Correct. Ball is still in.
Decision 2: Incorrect. Push is stopping defender from jumping properly. ( A bit theatrical though)
Decision 3: Correct. No handball.
Decision 4: Incorrect. Gordon's leg is clearly ahead of where the ball would be. Hidden or not. Using 3 camera angles is enough to infer the ball is at bare minimum in line win Joelintons body, of which Gordon's leg is ahead of.
Liverpool Fan here so I've no dog in this fight, but that goal shouldn't have stood. The Decision is nowhere near as bad as what happened to us at White Hart Lane, as this is alot more subjective and needs more assumptions. But its still a poor one in my eyes.
I think he meant go back 2 frames, the ball was out at that point, lmao!
Why doesnt VAR have 4 cameras on each corner of the field...to judge if its out or not? There will then always be a conclusive decision. Hope they learn from these mistakes. (Doubt it tho)
Yeah, sky has corner flag cameras but they never showed their best view either.
Why do they sound so stressed. In rugby the TMOs are calm and in cricket as well.
Exactly. They are babbling words talking over each other.
Who is in charge?
Show me the evidence. I analyse quiet for few seconds, ask what I need, give me the angle.. give my opinion... inform the referee.
They can't confirm anything...but still the goal stands 😂😂
because the ON FIELD DECISION IS A GOAL
Perfectly said. That's why the goal stands.
As it should. The decision on the field.
Yes? They cannot confirm anything wrong with it.
Hands on back. Free out common sense.
The guys are soo tense it's hard to tell whose in the field and who is in a well conditioned room and still not able to do his job...they only talking over each other
"I don't see anything of a push that warrants him flying forward like that". Joelinton is literally in the air with both hands on Gabriel. What is he even talking about.
The Premier League is losing its quality to the Saudi league and others when it comes to game fairness. What does it cost to be fair anyway?
It costs a bunch of people who have honor in their jobs but to be honest nothing wrong with the goal.
The Prem has been Bought By Arab Oil Money. PGMOL Sold their Soul. PGMOL are CORRUPT.
I'm surprised that no camera angle covers the whole goal line
Pure incompetence, off of Joelintons hip….no foul on Gabriel 😭
absolutely clear goal, no offsides, no foul - brilliant decision making! the conversation was a little bit erratic though
We're still undefeated. But officials wouldn't have it. Why wait a week and a half to release the audio? Just curious.
VAR and AVAR must be thinking Joelinton was giving Gabriel a back massage.
“…ALL OF THE BALL IS OVER THE LINE…”. Highly paid professional ENGLISH referees. DISGRACE. The FA’s own rules 😱😤🤬☹️😡
Highly upvoted amateur ENGLISH youtube commenters butchering quotes for their own narrative DISGRACE
No it isnt
@@wayneburles4272 Have another LOOK, mate. Disgrace
IT LOOKS OUT but maybe curvature of the ball..... Also Joelinton is literally mounting a mid air Gabriel, with two hands in the back. I just don't understand.
Anyone notice that he did not want the angle of the ball when it was out he ask for two frames forward where its not easy to make a choice,the ball with two frames forward is the image going round the net and not the image before he says give it two frames forward and he was brain washing the other reff with him trying to rush the Gabriel push , everyone go back and look,dont forgot the people giving us the information is paid by sky sports
I need someone to explain me the new rules: "there's a potential for handball but he's not the goalscorer"... What does that mean?
Also confusing: "go 2 frames forward so that the ball is back in play". Why?
The ball hit the hand of Joe but they are telling us it's not Joe who scored the goal...When was this rule implemented?
No conclusive evidence the ball is out doesn't necessarily mean the ball is conclusively on play either. Therefore, decision should have been " Ball is majority out but no conclusive evidence to back that ball is on play. Then it would have been up to FA to upgrade or add more cameras for upcoming games. This ball would been judged oit of play without VAR based on linesmen direct vision. Overall, an ugly decision that hurts football.
Rubbish. There was a linesman, and he didn't judge it out of play. Kept his flag down. VAR didn't prove that he was wrong so the goal stands.
@@MyraMarksYou must be a rival fan.
The cheek of Mike Dean to tell Merson players don’t know the rules.
This makes it evident that they don’t either.
why on earth didn't they use the angle shown at 1:38 to check if the ball had gone out? Insanity
I don't know why TH-cam decides I should see this 5 months after
So we can also confirm that Romero wasnt push to dissalowed Arsenal goal against Spurs yesterday
Pause the video-The balls gone out in reality clear on the camera as theres a green strip between the ball and the white line,but VAR cant confirm, play it forward its still in.. how does this make sense??
I am pleased to see that VAR communication is working better now. Especially when asking what the ref's on-field decision was first. But the ball seems to be out of play. Gabriel is no stranger to diving, so it's hard to say if he contact is that significant or not, but Joelinton does seem to push Gabriel when he is out of balance, which makes him not able to challenge for the ball. Everything is clear (more or less), except the ball being clearly over the line. They are talking about "curvature" of the ball, and it makes no sense. I will defend VAR, because it makes the game more fair, but the level of competence of English refs are abysmal. Should hire refs and professionals from abroad. But that takes money out of the pockets from the mafia in PGMOL...
The var can't even have a clear conversation. Why wouldn't they allow the ref to go watch the screen by himself? It's a shame, absolute shame on the var and English Premier league
What I don’t understand is how they used the only inconclusive camera to decide it wasn’t offside but couldn’t do same with the ball being out. At least the only camera we have access to says it’s out. I don’t understand why the subjectivity. These guys definitely got paid after the game.
If the Ball isn't off Joe Linton, and the ball is behind Gabriel, how is the ball redirected towards the goal?
How's that not a foul? Saka's foul on the week ahead is softer, and Haaland penalty against Chelsea is also softer. EPL officials are BS
Total disgrace. How was that not a push from behind resulting in Gabriel fall to the front.
Ball in play . People some how forgot that the round ball means the wider part is in play but not making contact with the ball
The ref said “they could be a handball in there as well” 2:02 yet the VAR and AVAR were to busy yapping and they clearly didn’t hear and so didn’t check. Piss poor!
they didn't have to check the handball because it was not the goalscorer and they deemed it not intentional. So it doesn't matter if the ball touched the arm or not it would still be given as a goal under the current rules.
@@timself9092 is his arm in a natural position? does the ball hitting his arm during the sequence leading to the goal being scored? Why did the ref ask about it yet they didn't acknowledge.
The VAR Communication is jammed like kenya police😂😂
why do they insist on two frames forward when the ball was even further out on current frame?
wow how can they com to conclusion that there is no foul there.. if joelinton didnt push gabriel he can easily clear the ball.. why didnt he? he isnt a striker.. he was there to clear the ball.. the intention of joelinton is to get the ball from gabriel back.. unless joelinton is infront of gabriel then there is no excuse why gabriel cannot clear the ball.. last season ben white just touch the goalkeeper during corner kick and the goal got chalk off.. this is clear push from behind and two hand touch defender back and no foul.. PGMOL should really be ashamed.. its clear as day.. people think otherwise might be a bit crazy even if judge tell me this is no foul its just to cover up the mess WOW
Wtf was that😂 Daylight robbery!!
Disgraceful!
I think Gary Neville should've watched this before demanding that FA should come out to protect referees. If there's no concluding evidence that the ball was out of play because of camera to detect that angle, . That's more reason the goal shouldn't be allowed. They were in hurry to award because that's the intention from the start.
Complete Disgrace!!!
This is embarrassing. Completely Embarrassing…
This record right here tells a lot about how the VAR system works.
Shame!!!
1. It's very hard to judge if the ball is completely out of play from that angle because of the curvature of the ball. So the onfield referee decision stands as it is not conclusive enough.
2. For the foul on Gabriel, VAR decision is very questionable. If both Joelinton hands made contact the time Gabriel is going for the ball, that's all it needs to come to a conclusion. VAR officials should not worry about whether there is enough force on Gabriel's back or not, the moment they see the hand on the back and the way Gabriel falls, it clearly should be a foul.
Isn't there a camera for corner kicks at the corner that shows the line? We can argue about the ball being out. But come on. Two hands on the back and the ball ricochet led to the goal.
"I see two hands on his back, but no foul"??? Wtaf two hands on the back means foul in any game in any country
Someone on the field said possible handball and then var ref completely forgets to check handball ? Or intentionally didnt check handball ? Money money money…
They checked if the ball came off Joelinton's arm.
Listen again. Not off the goal-scorer and not intentional, therefore the goal stands.
Gabriel misses the header he ducks for and then dives knowing joelinton is behind him VAR did brilliantly here
shambles. They can see everything and acting like the ball is never out of play, gabi isn't fouled and Joelinton isn't offside. Come on mate if it was other way round any of this situation single handedly would have been enough to rule out arsenal's goal. Var has allowed so many new angles to give correct decisions which otherwise goes unnoticed but even than this guy's don't have concrete protocols to follow.
After hearing this, the right decision was truly made. No definitive evidence to rule the goal out after going through all the protocols? stick to the on-field decision, no apologies needed well done.
The dead silence when the goal goes in
On and off-field cheats tbh. Outrageous how the officials did everything remotely possible to give the most reaching benefit of the doubt about all 3 issues assessed here in order to favour Newcastle and award a goal, not to mention Guimaraes staying on the pitch after multiple fouls and violent conduct throughout the game.
Anyone see that Liverpool v Man City game? Man city had a goal ruled out because one of their players “fouled” Alison when all he did was have his hand on his shoulder. How is that a foul and the two hands on Gabriel not a foul?
As a Liverpool fan,?us and arsenal have been robbed by who else than the Saudi giants. FFS
My sight must be too poor if the ball surely didn’t go out of play...
I hope this VAR team has been dismissed already?
They don't deserve to sit in front of any screen anymore, not in their private homes nor public
two hands in the back and gabriel is pushed away like it was rugy... i mean like how has this anything to do with football?
They confirmed the goal of hell..
Just get me and my friends in the VAR rooms, we never agree on the same thing, someone always has another opinion. We could do a great job
too many people taking over each other. keep it simple. get another ref to check after main VAR ref concludes his decision. Also, if the on field ref has goal technology on his wrist, why isn't this available to inform him ball out of play ?
think it’s just for the goal line
100% correct decision
nice joek there buddy
And the premiere league title goes to......what a mess. Get rid of VAR. GIVE us our game back please. For crying out loud 😭
So Haaland got a penalty for a minor push vs Chelsea, and this is not a foul? Its not consistent at all, either both are fouls, or both are not. It is that simple
It's consistent with refs going to officiate in Saudi for good money finding ways to reward Saudi-owned clubs...
😂😂😂 am amused how they saw two hands of jollington on Gabriel's back but not seeing a push instead saw a massage & spa session to the back of Gabriel😂😂😂
Even referees have become like the government all knowing better than the people on the terraces and the people in the street, everybody seems to be pissed with power these days, very sad.
Watching this after today's Chelsea disallowed goal is giving more pain..
I think we should know what teams these VAR officials support because there is absolute bias on the push on Gabriel.
At 1:18 the ball is clearly out, and then they wanna show the people two frames after that?? Terrible refreeing
Jolinton 2 hands on Gabriel’s back but no foul….well done var, what a joke
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. I can't stop laughing..
why is var not using the same technology as tennis or the Goal line technology