I’ve understood this concept since I’ve been young and tried to explain to to so many people I’ve never been able to frame it like this. This speech is going to change my life I literally just stopped weeping I thought no one else got it I feel so not crazy right now
This is 80% amazing. Encouraging people to psychoanalyze people who feel that they are victims is not ever going to produce anything positive, however, unless they are already in a mindset where they are open to receiving that feedback.
Well yeah! It takes time for each individual to become aware that this is even happening or for them to decide to seek help with it to transform into healthier and more purposeful roles to take on.
The Drama Triangle is one of the useful theories from the Transactional Analysis canon. Would be good if this talk referenced this clearly so people can find out more by going to the original sources.
Excellent talk, thanks for this great summary of a very valuable interpersonal tool. I'm a therapist and appreciate having such a talk to refer my clients to check out.
"I'm feeling really insecure, please reassure me" Although this is obviously better than manipulating, I am still unsure about asking for someone to reassure me just because they are going on a night out. This would definitely not work on someone with avoidant attachment.
I am surprised that Eric Berne and Transactional analysis has not been mentioned nor Stephen Karpman who worked with Him on researches and created the Dramatic triangle, well known as the Karpman’s triangle. Years of research not even mentioned and acknowledged. Very choked.
I agree that it's best to avoid "you" when speaking, especially from an opinion perspective. I'm watching this for a yoga teacher training, which the training emphasizes "conscious communication." The training even has a section about "I" statements regarding taking ownership of our opinions and perspectives versus projecting them onto others.
Lucy asked the question 'What is the biggest cause of addiction globally'? and I don't believe she actually answered it and/or I missed it/did not understand. Anyone know the answer?
Addiction to the drama triangle. Drama stories. Everyone is vying for the place of victim. Pointing to an outer perpetrator and pretending to be the hero of all the made up labeling stories.
@@ginaprespare1316 yes, but more to the point, he says that childhood trauma creates a separation from self & other. I think that I first heard Johann Hari say that "Connection is the opposite of addiction!".
@@hervealexanian2684 Yes, she does mention his last name in passing "what Karpman called ..." However, without proper credit it will be hard for her audience to know who Karpman is and why he is being fleetingly referenced. I also see a notation on the slide which says in very small font 'derived from the Karpman Drama Triangle' However, short of the cartoons, the material is identical to the original. Normally, I wouldn't comment but given that this is a university student who is giving a public talk from a university, following the standard protocols of identifying sources and respecting intellectual property seems to be in order.
Hey Lucy Barnes, Thank you for sharing this, I would love to have a conversation about RED Vs. Green Language, the red you use here in this talk actually starts the Drama Triangle, firing up the Amygdala into Fight Flight or Frozen. Zoom call?
Okay, so...what if someone is actually abusing the victim, though? If someone's beating their spouse, asking them, "Well do you think you're reacting with upset because X" is victim-blaming. People could very easily gaslight someone using this triangle against them. (lol in b/f someone accuses me of being a "victim" or "rescuer" or w/e because I say this talk is problematic.)
I would say that this should be a self evaluation or an evaluation from a professional like a therapist. The triangle should be a point of awareness for the self to realize where they are at, not to to be used as accusation to someone else.
There is a difference between being an actual victim and being stuck in a role of being helpless and someone else is playing a role where they are either rescuing or persecuting you ongoing.
I appreciate the comparison of the far right and the far left in politics. The far right becomes the "persecutor" and the left the "savior" while minorities become the "victims". When really each role can be interchangeable. Yes let's focus on long term goals, instead of excusing and allowing illegal immigration, perhaps we can them coach into being more self reliant (long term goals). Then they don't have to leave their countries and can thrive at home
This analogy only works from the centre left paradigm of politics although you have seemed to have taken it as aligning with your conservative view (as this makes you feel happy). The far right are more than people that feel they are victimised and the Left far more complex than wanting to protect minorities. The Drama triangle is a great way of thinking about YOUR relationships. By that I mean individual relationships. It doesn’t work with social dynamics as they are concerned with wider issues; economics, politics and religion in a way that determines what the overall goal is. If you try to apply this thought to immigration you are simply justifying your persecutory impulse by saying you are actually being a rescuer. It’s the same misguided principle as “tough love” lol.
@@daveholly9005 There are a lot of presumptions in your reply. I'm conservative? How do you know I'm not an immigrant who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps who shares this idea of the victim immigration paradigm? I like how you seem to assume the role of authority/teacher on an anonymous message board. You must be a white know it all male with some kind of superiority/savior complex.
Many people in former colonies were exploited, and still are (Tech companies, Rare Earth, Child Labour). They are victims, multinationals are faceless persecutors.
How is it unstructured? She describes a framework for interpreting a victim mentality with honesty, commonsense and above all clarity. I related really strongly to this and I'm in addiction recovery, I think she's pretty much nailed it here, as challenging as this concept is.
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I’ve understood this concept since I’ve been young and tried to explain to to so many people I’ve never been able to frame it like this. This speech is going to change my life I literally just stopped weeping I thought no one else got it I feel so not crazy right now
Good for her for owning her behaviour here, her honesty helped me to keep watching even though it's uncomfortable viewing.
This affects 99% of people. It's so important. It deserves way more views!
😊😊
I've never felt so attacked and empowered in my life
💯😂
Wow, what a brave and honest talk. Brilliant.
This is 80% amazing. Encouraging people to psychoanalyze people who feel that they are victims is not ever going to produce anything positive, however, unless they are already in a mindset where they are open to receiving that feedback.
For us rescuers, it also does the same thing emotionally: we are trying to fix the problem. The victim needs to figure that out themselves
Well yeah! It takes time for each individual to become aware that this is even happening or for them to decide to seek help with it to transform into healthier and more purposeful roles to take on.
Praise the healing power if truth!! Your beautiful honest is vital to this and I am so greatful! 👏 🙌 👍
The Drama Triangle is one of the useful theories from the Transactional Analysis canon. Would be good if this talk referenced this clearly so people can find out more by going to the original sources.
Excellent talk, thanks for this great summary of a very valuable interpersonal tool. I'm a therapist and appreciate having such a talk to refer my clients to check out.
"I'm feeling really insecure, please reassure me" Although this is obviously better than manipulating, I am still unsure about asking for someone to reassure me just because they are going on a night out. This would definitely not work on someone with avoidant attachment.
That’s on them, though. It’s about you breaking the cycle of manipulation and being authentic.
Right/ it would if that person wanted to move more toward healthy attachment
Great job, Lucy. Your personal vulnerability made this much more effective.
Congratulations to a brave young woman.
Thank you
“The TEDx talk that changed my life”
Best explanation of the drama triangle I've watched so far. Thank you Coralina! 🙏💙
I am surprised that Eric Berne and Transactional analysis has not been mentioned nor Stephen Karpman who worked with Him on researches and created the Dramatic triangle, well known as the Karpman’s triangle. Years of research not even mentioned and acknowledged. Very choked.
Yup , that's what I was thinking.
Excellent! Absolutely exceptional
you were great at the speech...so confident..really admirable..:)
If only most people could reflect like this. We wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in
Thank you, Brilliant speach
Great talk! I wonder if Lucy could post the recommendations on the books and podcasts, please.
learnt this the hard way,figured it out eventually,eloquently done Didnt know these terms concept existed until tonite.
This video is worth watching. There's a lot of people like this surrounding us, or sometimes we acted like this as well. 😅
Most people are stuck in this not just some
Congrats, well spoken!
good stuff ... thanks
Well done!
It's best if you can speak with "I" or we statements and not "you"
I agree that it's best to avoid "you" when speaking, especially from an opinion perspective. I'm watching this for a yoga teacher training, which the training emphasizes "conscious communication." The training even has a section about "I" statements regarding taking ownership of our opinions and perspectives versus projecting them onto others.
Good insight into each of the roles
Very good
great presenter.
Lucy asked the question 'What is the biggest cause of addiction globally'? and I don't believe she actually answered it and/or I missed it/did not understand.
Anyone know the answer?
Dr. Gabor Mate says it is trauma.
Addiction to the drama triangle. Drama stories.
Everyone is vying for the place of victim. Pointing to an outer perpetrator and pretending to be the hero of all the made up labeling stories.
@@ginaprespare1316 yes, but more to the point, he says that childhood trauma creates a separation from self & other.
I think that I first heard Johann Hari say that "Connection is the opposite of addiction!".
Trauma is the gateway drug
@@TiaTurnbullnow Trauma is what leads to becoming stuck in the triangle
Please provide credit to the creator of the drama model - trying to remember the psychologists name ...Kaplan? circa late 60's
It's Karpman. She says it briefly at 5:35
@@hervealexanian2684 Yes, she does mention his last name in passing "what Karpman called ..." However, without proper credit it will be hard for her audience to know who Karpman is and why he is being fleetingly referenced. I also see a notation on the slide which says in very small font 'derived from the Karpman Drama Triangle' However, short of the cartoons, the material is identical to the original. Normally, I wouldn't comment but given that this is a university student who is giving a public talk from a university, following the standard protocols of identifying sources and respecting intellectual property seems to be in order.
It is written on her slide the whole time and mentioned verbally. On the slide of the triangle it says "Derived from the Karpman Drama Triangle".
She gave credit. Give it a rest, Judith.
@@KieraT ok so you’re the rescuer and Judith is the persecutor 😂😅
impressive.
I think rhetoric should be pronounced with the stress on the first syllable.
I had already been made aware of this concept, but want to hear her take. Well done! Now get a new haircut. You are driving me crazy! :)
First triangle explains Spider-Man (rescuer), MJ (victim), and Green Goblin (persecutor)…? 🤔
Hey Lucy Barnes, Thank you for sharing this, I would love to have a conversation about RED Vs. Green Language, the red you use here in this talk actually starts the Drama Triangle, firing up the Amygdala into Fight Flight or Frozen. Zoom call?
You were going to link some books?
Good talk. But her boyfriend shouldn’t have been clubbing when he was in a relationship.
"You have done it in your lifetime"
Uhh huh. No.
Okay, so...what if someone is actually abusing the victim, though? If someone's beating their spouse, asking them, "Well do you think you're reacting with upset because X" is victim-blaming. People could very easily gaslight someone using this triangle against them.
(lol in b/f someone accuses me of being a "victim" or "rescuer" or w/e because I say this talk is problematic.)
I would say that this should be a self evaluation or an evaluation from a professional like a therapist.
The triangle should be a point of awareness for the self to realize where they are at, not to to be used as accusation to someone else.
There is a difference between being an actual victim and being stuck in a role of being helpless and someone else is playing a role where they are either rescuing or persecuting you ongoing.
Codependency
I appreciate the comparison of the far right and the far left in politics. The far right becomes the "persecutor" and the left the "savior" while minorities become the "victims". When really each role can be interchangeable. Yes let's focus on long term goals, instead of excusing and allowing illegal immigration, perhaps we can them coach into being more self reliant (long term goals). Then they don't have to leave their countries and can thrive at home
This analogy only works from the centre left paradigm of politics although you have seemed to have taken it as aligning with your conservative view (as this makes you feel happy). The far right are more than people that feel they are victimised and the Left far more complex than wanting to protect minorities.
The Drama triangle is a great way of thinking about YOUR relationships. By that I mean individual relationships. It doesn’t work with social dynamics as they are concerned with wider issues; economics, politics and religion in a way that determines what the overall goal is.
If you try to apply this thought to immigration you are simply justifying your persecutory impulse by saying you are actually being a rescuer. It’s the same misguided principle as “tough love” lol.
@@daveholly9005 There are a lot of presumptions in your reply. I'm conservative? How do you know I'm not an immigrant who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps who shares this idea of the victim immigration paradigm?
I like how you seem to assume the role of authority/teacher on an anonymous message board. You must be a white know it all male with some kind of superiority/savior complex.
🍿
Many people in former colonies were exploited, and still are (Tech companies, Rare Earth, Child Labour). They are victims, multinationals are faceless persecutors.
I think you have missed the main point of the drama triangle. Very well presented, but you don't deem to have grasped the concept of the model.
dude...similar words ... different model ...she got this one
What main point?
She seems to grasp it really well and presents it in an understandable manner.
A terrible and unstructured talk.
How is it unstructured? She describes a framework for interpreting a victim mentality with honesty, commonsense and above all clarity. I related really strongly to this and I'm in addiction recovery, I think she's pretty much nailed it here, as challenging as this concept is.
It's about triangles which is a structure.
Go away troll. Oh hang on... are you the guy she went out with that she talks about in her presentation? Ha!!!!!!!
Ok so you’re a persecutor! 😂
It would have been useful if you made it a little clearer what you mean.
Well done!