@9H Podcasts on Chernobyl and Pripyat (Episode 4) th-cam.com/video/aKSGahk_3Jc/w-d-xo.html PSA: don't just get an M1a and think it will do the same. If that worked then the U.S. gov wouldn't have to spend so much time in developing an M21-XM25 (which is essentially entirely upgraded except for the receiver/bolt/oprod. What you see here cost me 50 Benjamins, so beware before you dive into such a project. Special thanks to @The Armourer's Bench "M14 In Ukraine" th-cam.com/video/sxfCz-vkcvs/w-d-xo.html @Vintage Rifles Shooters Club XM21th-cam.com/video/nsSRY5h0Tao/w-d-xo.html M25 SWS th-cam.com/video/ducztiOngbQ/w-d-xo.html
As a Platoon Leader in the 101st Airborne Division in the early 80s, I had an M21 assigned to my Platoon - fiberglass stock, ART-II scope, built by the Army Marksmanship Unit at FT Benning. The user was our best E4 marksman who was sent to FT Campbell's "sniper" course. They were definitely capable of hitting targets at 800 meters. User (and armorer) were not allowed to disassemble the rifle.
Many people - even military history fans - are not aware that the top-scoring U.S. sniper of the Vietnam conflict was U.S. Army Staff Sergeant Bert Waldron, of the 9th Infantry Division. Until the late Navy SEAL CPO Chris Kyle surpassed his record, Waldron was the top-scoring U.S. sniper of all time with 109 confirmed kills in combat. Waldron utilized an M21 - an accurized M-14 rifle with a scope - during his entire tour. He operated both during the day and at night using a Starlight scope, and once downed a V.C. guerilla at 900 meters from the prow of a moving riverine patrol craft... with his CO (commanding officer) looking on, no less. The old saying goes, "It isn't the tool, it is the craftsman" - and Waldron probably would have been successful using any number of other platforms or weapons systems, but the fact of the matter is that he accomplished what he accomplished using an M-14. The received wisdom is that the M-14 was unreliable in Vietnam but this is not the whole story. During that era, scoped M-14s were parted-out as a unit, scope + rifle, so that if either one of the components of the system was defective or malfunctioned, the whole thing was red-lined for repair and went into the books as needing service. The reality is that the scopes in those days failed a lot more in the harsh climate of SE Asia than the rifles themselves did. Thereby skewing the statistical data. For what it is worth, I know a half dozen or so combat veterans of Vietnam, men who are 5-10 years older than I am (I am sixty-one), guys who used M-14s in Vietnam, and to a man, they all speak highly of the rifle. I know that because at a BBQ fifteen or so years ago, to welcome home one of the men's son's from Iraq where he'd done a tour as an 11B, they talked about the rifles - the M-14, and the M-16, which they hated! It was pretty funny, if you have ever heard a bunch of liquored-up grunts & former infantrymen start to use harsh language.... those guys... well, let's just say they could cuss quite creatively and leave it at that. They started with calling the M-16 a "poodle shooter" and things went on from there. We then button-holed the son, and asked him his opinion. He'd never used an M-14, but he liked his M16 just fine and said it never let him down.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 I have the opposite experience. We were issued M14s in McMillian stocks with Leupold optics as DMR in Iraq, and found them to be finicky and unreliable. The rifles were bedded, and the bedding made standard disassembly an armorer level task. We weren't allowed to remove the receiver from the stock for fear of disturbing the bedding. The roller bearing required grease to function and the open receiver invited grit and debris in. So the rifle's would inevitably gum up and freeze, and there was nothing we could do to restore function because we were forbidden from taking them apart. Consequently, we removed the Leupold optic from the rifle and replaced the RCO on one of our A4s with the Leupold from the M14, then called that our DMR. The M16A4 was a fine service rifle, much more reliable than the M14, and we could at least maintain the rifle to a usable degree of reliability and accuracy. The M14 was technically issued and saw service, but it rarely saw actual use, and mostly just banged around in the back of Humvees with MREs, bottled water, ammo cans, and rolls of Cope Long Cut. Later, we were issued Mk 12s as DMRs, and we happily surrendered our M14s for them. The Mk 12s and the Mk 262 became the most coveted rifle outside the wire. They were the only thing we saw high speed enough to be suppressed, they were accurate, and they did everything we asked of them out to pretty incredible distances; 600 yards pretty easily, sometimes 800 if you needed it. I have an M1 Garand I inherited from my grandpa, and an M1A that I tried to supplement it with. The Garand gets played with for nostalgia on occasion. I really tried to like the M1A, but the gas system rattled loose around 1000 rounds and had to be sent back to Springfield for a unitized gas cylinder, and then my roller bearing fell off within 12 rounds of getting it back from Springfield. I was having a helluva time getting it scoped, and having things rattle loose and fall off was kind of the the last straw. So I bought an Aero Precision AR-10, and it has been functionally superior to the M1A in every way. It is more reliable, more accurate, more durable, easier to maintain, easier to accessorize. I like the Aero Precision so much that I bought another, and now the M1A, like the M14 we were issued, is relegated to collecting dust in the closet. I have no use for it because anything it can do, my AR-10s will do better, I am hesitant to spend more money getting it shooting again because I'd rather just spend that on ammo and components for the AR-10s, and I can't get rid of it because I was bought with money I got when my mom passed, so it has sentimental value. For anything serious, I would take an AR variant over an M14 any day of the week without hesitation. It isn't even close. If you read up on the history of the M14, it has literally never been more reliable or more accurate than the M16. The M14 was like a Democrat, it couldn't win anything without cheating and was only ever adopted because Ord Corps lowered standards and sabotaged competition until it won. The adoption of the M14 was such an expensive, embarrassing debacle that both the Ord Corps and Springfield Armory never recovered from it. Then some company in IL buys rights to the name Springfield Armory so they can claim by association prestige they never earned and starts pumping out cast receiver garbage variants of an abomination service rifle and people are surprised when they have problems, like Springfield Bolt Roller Impact Defect, which I unfortunately never discovered until researching why the roller just fell off my rifle for no apparent reason.
@@OverlordGrizzaka I think he ment like basic field stripping. For field stripping an m14 it requires removing the receiver from the stock so you can get the the gas system for cleaning. But because the stock is bedded for accuracy it means you can't take it apart for basic maintenance like how it was originally designed and then used in vietnam but because we made it a Frankenstein sniper rifle you can't do basic cleaning on it
I carried one for a year, or a little more, in in 1966. I also shot a M1A1 in competition in the last 70's. A marine armorer showed me some tricks to make it a more accurate rifle. One of them was to cut the upper guard to free float along the stock. You would also polish the metal at the front where the guard touched the stock so it would return the the same spot after each shot.
I had a Match Conditioned M14 type rifle w/a Medium weight Criterion barrel, unitized gas cylinder, glass bedded job and a match trigger job. Even with those improvements, the rifle only shot 2MOA w/FGMM. I knew I deserved better accuracy than that so I sold it & got an AR10 type rifle which shoots about 1MOA.
Nearly the same situation here. Rifle was one of the biggest “money sucks” I’ve ever known. Beautiful rifle, a true “rifleman’s rifle”, but an out of the box AR10 shoots just as well, even a little better.
Sent it to Ted Brown, well regarded M14 Smith. The rifle's design has too many things against it as far as potential accuracy and maintaining accuracy, mainly stock to action fit. Only an M14 apologist would try to defend the rifle not being as accurate as other designs. I see it on the M14forum all the time.
I used one in the Marines from 2010-12. I was a Designated Marksman with F.A.S.T company. They shot great and we could shoot sub MOA groups. It was replaced in 2014 with AR10 platform.
Oh Fast is that “Fleet something Security Team” (Cant’t remember the name) right? I used to have a Marine Corps history book as a teen and remember reading about them. Always thought they were cool since they were a lesser known group.
I remember my M21 fondly. I still remember the serial number all these years later. It had a wood stock and an ART scope and we were not allowed to take them apart for cleaning. It was very accurate. In fact the picture to the left is me with my M21 around 1980.
My civilian perspective. I had my 'Crazy Horse' M21A5 type SEI in a Sage EBR chassis for several years... it was accurate, reliable, and kind of heavy. A few years ago I moved the Smith Enterprise assembled rifle into the Blackfeather RS chassis, the rifle remains accurate and reliable, but it is also about three (3) pounds lighter than the EBR chassis. Medium weight 22" barrel, 4 grooves, 1:10 ROT, chambered for M118LR... I have shot sub-MOA groups @ 100 yards using Portuguese NATO surplus using an Aimpoint CompM4 and a Wind Talker suppressor... I have never shot it at longer ranges. Smith Enterprise builds in one of the two aluminum chassis stocks with an M14 EBR trigger shoe make all the difference in the world for me.
In the early 90s I bought my first M1A (green box) at a local gun show. I was young, and strong, and carried it in the mountains while backpacking. I fell in love with the platform, and I’ve never been a turncoat. I’ve owned many NM models over the years but none as sweet as the first one. Unfortunately I traded it for a boat along the way. Now I have a LRB tanker with all the bells and whistles. I have designated it a battle rifle along with my Galil Ace in 7.62 NATO. I can still shoot out to 600 open sights and have zero problems doing so. To me it will always be cherished.
We had the M21 in the unit for years,and when I went to AMTU in 1990,right before the Gulf,that was my weapon.It was dead nuts accurate to 800 and could be pushed to 860,but we didn’t get the chance.After deployment,we never saw them again-we were retrained on the M24 SWS which was more accurate but a bolt action.
Well done Henry. We had XM21/M21s on the ODAs for my first 6 yrs in SF, then they were replaced with the M24. Later when I went thru 5th SFGA Sniper Course I had a M25 and two guys on my team had the M24s. I would later take a particular TRS M14 NM to Kenya, Iraq and All Army Match in 06' shooting out to 1000 yds with iron sights using M118LR. Today I would take either the M110/Mk11 (had a SR25 in Haiti) or the Mk17/20
My dad was a vietnam vet. He also was on his High Schools shooting team. They won the Georgia State Championship in the 1950s. He bought a match grade M 14. Said it was the ultimate rifle. My drug addicted uncle stole the rifle from us when my father passed in 2011. That broke my heart.
I have owned several accurized civilian M14s, my favorite is a Crazy Horse M21A5 built by Smith Enterprise. I have it set up in a light weight Blackfeather RS chassis stock... it consistently shoots sub-MOA groups
I'm surprised the Brookfield Precision Tool steel stock liner wasn't mentioned. It virtually eliminated zero shift during field strip. There were M25s used in service with this steel liner.
@@Ripper13F1V BPT's owner Mitch Mateiko did briefly come out of retirement a few years ago to make a few batches of M25 stock liners. There were only around 75-80 of them produced in total but there are some newly minted units out in circulation to be haggled for and pried out of the clutches of whoever holds one now. I was lucky enough to get ahold of one and it is currently installed in a McMillan M3A stock with my own rifle built off a Polytech M14/S receiver done up in a similar manner to Henry's own example. All the gunsmithing for the rifle itself was done by Smith Enterprise and the stock and liner work was done at Accuracy Speaks by Rio Salado Sportsman's Club. The final finished product is a beauty of a rifle.
Glad y'all are revisiting this platform. Yes it is not as optimized as other more modern d platforms, but having some experience with it I feel it is way overly maligned by folks who've never even held one. Mine has been accurate, robust, and very reliable. Also, unlike many more modern platforms, when you run out of ammo you can still club your enemies to death with one. Many years ago when my glass bedding was needing replacement I dropped my NM into a aluminum Blackfeather RS chassis and I couldn't be happier. Light weight, durable, and every bit as accurate as the original glass bedded walnut stock. I even like the look.
Quietus13 - You caught my eye with the mention of the Blackfeather system. Can you get them in the 'States? I'm asking because they're a Canadian design, if memory serves.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 yes they are Canadian but I had no problems ordering mine shipped to my house in the US. I was able to do the installation mostly myself, although my NM barrel was just slightly too fat for a ring component that I had a local gun smith machine for me.
This is one of the best M-14 type rifle videos out there. Anyone who wants to get into this firearm should watch it to be aware of what they buying and why they would want to buy it. Excellent job and keep up the great work!
Fantastic episode gentlemen, I fall into the former category that are very fond of the M-14/M-21 system as I was that cold war sailor who carried the M-14 for ships security and on a rare occasion ashore to provide security for a detachment from my ship. One day if I can ever afford it, I would love to upgrade my Polytech M1A to a M-21 standard. One day I hope to be able to join your patron supporters, alas the last few years have been challenging to make ends meet. Cheers, and keep up the great content. ! - Wright Sublette
The problem with the M-14's reputation was that it was initially thought of with extreme reverence. Recently there has been a trend to go the opposite and completely trash it. It has become fashionable to treat it like it is the worst rifle ever, simply to be on the side of certain TH-cam celebrities. It's like the forward assist. People have suddenly decided you are stupid if you like having one on your AR. I think the truth in most cases lies somewhere in the middle. My own personal M-1A (that I stupidly sold) was pretty accurate and reliable, but I was using it with iron sights and I am not a Henry-level shot, so it's all subjective.
The undeniable fact is that we had a better rifle available, and the Army chose to ignore it. In the world of precision, "fine" isnt supposed to be okay.
I competed on my unit's rifle team (National Guard) with a M14 back in the early 90's and did extremely well with it. That started my love affair with the platform. Fasy forward to 2013 and I picked up a M1A scout. Long story short did a bunch of upgrades, developed a handload, added glass, headshots at 684 yards are totally doable and repeatable. That said, not the rifle to use for PRS matches. lol I used it my first year shooting PRS and while fun I knew I needed something different. Ended up switching to a AR chambered in 6mm ARC. I still take the M1A with me to matches as a backup. Why? I had the extractor break on my 6 ARC and (foolishly) didn't have spare parts but my wife was coming up later in the day (the break happened during practice the day before the match) so I had her grab Vera (my M1A) and I used Vera for that match. Have to admit, it was fun putting Vera through her paces again during a match. If nothing else it's always a crowd pleaser.
The most successful, reliable, and accurate EBRs were the 6000+ M14EBR-RI the Army fielded, and the 125 MK14 Mod 0 type SEI rifle that Smith Enterprise refitted.
Anyone making fun of their comments regarding the "cold" weather, some perspective is needed. I was born and raised in Houston, moving out of the State in 1999. I have lived in North Dakota ever since. I can tell you, without hesitation, 20 degrees below zero, with low humidity, feels better than 20 degrees above zero in high humidity. The humidity cuts the cold right down to your bones.
I actually got that when we were in Afghanistan during spring thaw. Every day, it would melt, then mud, and wet boots. Like you , I also would much rather be in colder temps in the Alps than wet afghan mountains in the spring with wet everything for weeks.
The thing that always scared me away from the M14/M1A was how much "tuning" the hardcore M1A shooters claimed was needed to keep up the rifle's accuracy. Those guys would show up to matches with large toolboxes that were dedicated to making sure that every little thing was absolutely harmonized so that accuracy wouldn't suffer. It seemed like a nightmare for anyone who didn't get off with tinkering incessantly.
I shot High Power competition for years with the AR and the M1A. The M1A is a super finicky thing. It costs three times as much to make an M1A shoot as well as a box stock Rock River Arms NM rifle.
I think a lot of this is also fine tuning a rifle for gnats ass accuracy when there is a practical accuracy for a DMR style rifle. If your goal is to punch tiny holes in paper, there are better, cheaper, platforms. If you want something with some history, which is also quite accurate, the M14 platform just fits. Nothing else quite shoots like a Garand action does. It's VERY distinct. FWIW, my M1A Loaded, basically a national match in a non bedded wood stock, has always shot consistently 1-1.25MOA 10 round groups without any tweaking after cleaning. There is DEFINITELY a settle in period of about 5-10 rounds after you first mate the stock to the action from a full disassembly, but once you are outside that window, it settles in quite nicely to being boringly predictable. As it stands, I'm about 1,000 rounds into the current full disassembly/reassembly, and it's been consistently at 1.25 MOA 10 round groups. I'm about 4,000 rounds in total through the barrel and she is just a straight shooter. Now, back to that practical accuracy thing, what goal are you attempting to achieve with your rifle? If you cannot define that mission, then should you really be buying a rifle at all? I don't think so. I bought mine for a fun plinking rifle that I could also take hog hunting if I wanted to. It's plenty capable of that job... again, practical accuracy. If you really want gnats ass tiny groups on paper, which is totally fine, the M14/M1A offers very little to you other than history, a good trigger, and great looks.
Very interesting video! I have a Springfield M1a Loaded model and it’s one of the most accurate rifles I own. It’s nothing super fancy. It doesn’t have a McMillan stock and I have a Vortex Viper 6-24x and one of them Springfield muzzle breaks on it. I’ve gotten some pretty impressive groups with it. One day me and a buddy went to a local range that had steel plates out to just under 400 yards. They had some that were a little smaller than the size of a man’s head way out there, and to my amazement I actually nailed that little thing with that rifle. I know the M14/M1a is a mixed bag nowadays, but from my personal experience it’s an accurate and reliable rifle
Henry, your M14 inspired me to create a clone of my own. I love my M21 and I love the reactions I get at the range with it. It was worth the kidney I sold to finance it.
Great video! I carried/used multiple variants over the years. I loved the system BUT it would not be my first pick when alternate systems became available. One of the main reasons for the M14 in the maritime environment was exactly what you said; availability. We need something between M16/M4 and the M2. The M60/M240 was the orginal answer but not the solution. After a study conducted by the Army in South Korea, their conclusion was the crew served weapons would cause too much damage when used with a built up harbor area that we needed to off load vital supplies. That was the original start in rethinking the viability re-fielding the M14. This was right before GWOT. We had a need, but no budget so we.....
My father carried one in Iraq 2004-05, and apparently the stripping, servicing and reassembly procedures for them was very similar to Springfield’s National Match rifles, which he owned several of and had learned to service, and thus was then able to service and clean his M21 in his bunker with tools he bought with his own money, without the need for his armorer.
@7:03 a cat just chilling, walkin around in the background while a phat .308 battle rifle is slinging lead like 50 yards away. Now thats a disciplined cat
In Canada, it was popular because it was one of the only Cold War semi-auto rifles allowed for civilians to own (the Norinco version) not anymore sadly; It also wasn't gonna break the bank.
The innovation with the M14SE cannot be undersold. The consistent accuracy without bedding was a big improvement. The SEI built rifles in USGI Fiberglass stocks tend to hold their accuracy quite a bit better after tear down.
I carried a XM-21 in Iraq in 2010/2011 with the 25th inf. (Bco. 1/27wolfhounds) tell we got the M-110 mid deployment. I grew up with the Vietnam model one because my grandfather carried one. Loved both but the M-110 for sure was better lol. Just picked up a 6.5 creedmoor one to make look more old school but with better BC.
The US should've gone with the FAL over the M14 back in the pre-Viet Nam acquisition days, full stop. That aside, the M14 and M1A and all their variants are fun to shoot. Nice run guys.
Fun fact: I used to work for McMillan and found a manufacturing defect in that stock that they had been making for what, 45 years? That was actually my last official act when I was there.
..l gotta admit man, THESE are some of my FAV vids you guys. Y’all do an EXCELLENT job. I mean on everything from the set-up, choosing particularly your platforms and ammo specifics..all the way to music and editing, intros and outros. Just couldn’t really improve that I know of. Makes me want to change-out my ‘wood’-stocked M1A to a McMillan M21-style. I’ll leave the “old” Redfield 3x9 in place..great stuff!
I’m 164 lbs 6’3”. Something inside me is drawn to the m1a/14/21 platform. I like to tell myself it’s because of the smooth, sleek, old fashioned look. Then reality reminds me I love’em heavy.
I have converted my rifle into the M25 version. To avoid your concerns that you stated about losing POI when breaking down the weapon to clean. I ordered my McMillian M1A stock in the Ft Devens cut configuration. As when I sent my rifle to Jon Tank to install. Steel bedding block in to the Ft Devens in letting. When all was said and done the build took almost 10 years to the day. Below is a list of modified parts. NOTE the only original part on the rifle is the receiver. M25 SA receiver USGI gas system unitized and hand lapped with front ferrel fit to stock with vent hole drilled McMillian M1A stock with Ft. Devens cut Jon Tank steel bed liner Jon Tank NM Guide Rod USGI TRW trigger group tuned by Jon Tank USGI TRW OpRod tuned by Jon Tank USGI TRW Bolt headspaced by Bruce Dow USGI NM/2A rear site base WCE elevation knob GMI NM windage knob Bruce Dow Custom guide rod pin Shuster Gas Plug "Rooster 33 " (R33) extended bolt catch LMT 18" barrel Surefire 762 m14 supressor adaptor Surefire 762k supressor Smith Enterprises U.S.N. Mk14 SEI Gas Lock/ Front site Smith Enterprises M14 gas piston Smith Enterprises cheek piece Harris HBRM Bipod A.RM.S. #18 mount A.R.M.S. 22 low rings Leupold M4 with illuminated Ret w/ factory upgraded 1/4 MOA turrets
An M1A has been my dream rifle since boot camp, and I recently got one on consignment at a great price. I couldn't tell that it had ever been fired, as there was zero visible wear anywhere on it. It's the "loaded" version, with an archangel stock. I haven't shot it a lot yet, but have no delusions about what it's capable of, but I do want to get all it IS capable of. Range time today, I got it on steel at 200 yards with some Winchester white box M80, head stamped LC 22 with a NATO cross. Got about 3" at 200 yards with no problems, at all. So I pulled out some brown box Winchester "M118 Long Range, 175gr Sierra Matchking BTHP Service Grade," Head stamped LC LR 21 (no NATO cross) Out of 11 rounds, I blew out 3 primers. The one primer I found was not pierced, but those cases were badly beat up! Have you seen this phenomenon on the M1A with that load?
As someone who belongs to the cult of people that believes the M1 Garand to be a superior rifle to the M14 and various clones out there for a number a reasons not just relating to performance, I will admit that this video really illustrates that, despite the M14s lackluster stint as the US Service Rifle, I can still find the rifle quite interesting and historically significant, but only due to its use *outside* of being the US Service Rifle.
My dudes, y’all can make a video about slingshots and I will still watch the hell out of it. I learn something new every time I watch a video and it is always a treat to listen to the debriefs. 👍
I love these transitional period type of weapons. You can see elements of the previous era's design philosophy being merged with the next age's. A lot of my favorite firearms come from these periods such as cartridge conversions guns between the eras of muzzle loaders and cartridges, the turn of the 20th century with early auto loaders where every design was very unique and different due to designers solving new problems in their own way, and today's redesigning / modernization of older weapons with newer optics/furniture to meet a use-case gap of the modern age. Firearms of these periods you can just look at how they were built and almost read the story like a book.
As a DM we used these for our base platform at 800 and 1200 meters. Our alternative was the Rem 700 platform. The semi auto allowed you to stay in form and on the target. Bolt action took longer to re establish zero. We also used them for silent drill. I would take it over most modern day platforms. And number one choice in the field of battle!
Friendly reminder the m14 was never designed to be a precision rifle system, and excelled in the design it was made for. Making it a precision rifle system was an after thought of using weapons on hand and saving money for the military, but man was it a cool rifle. Its legacy is a testament to its design. Is it a good precision rifle ? No. Is it a sexy "precision" rifle. Hell yeah.
We love our M1A Scout Rifle. She's not sub MOA but 1 to 2 MOA on a cool day at 300 yards with a 2:00 wind @ 12 to 15mph. With 308 you reach out at a great distance.
Glad to see things went better on this go around, especially considering the weather. I think a solution to a lot of the M14 issues that hasn't gotten enough publicity is the M14.CA Blackfeather stock system. It's an aluminum chassis, but it basically follows the profile of the GI fiberglass stock. It also allows for either an AR style pistol grip and stock or a Magpul SGA shotgun stock. The critical improvement is replacing the op rod guide with a new one that a bolt goes through the chassis and into. By eliminating the need need for contact at the gas cylinder, draw pressure remains consistent even when disassembled for cleaning. The adjustment for draw pressure is in the new op rod guide and remains locked once initially set. It's more ergonomic and lighter than the Sage chassis. And for what a KAC M110 costs, you can do a lot of work on a M14.
I agree, when my NM in walnut was needing new bedding, I decided to drop mine in a Blackfeather and I have been very happy. Not cheap, but I had no loss of accuracy, if anything a slight improvement. Adds next to no weight and isn't bulky unlike other chassis out there. I'm really surprised you don't see or hear more about them, they really bring the M14 system up to more modern standards.
@@THEH2OMAN not sure if you're the same H2Oman but your posts in forums circa 2005 is a lot of the reason why I ended up with an M1a ha. Coming out of the AWB, the AR-10 ecosystem was a shadow of what it is now, and they had a terrible reputation for reliability. So for a semiauto .308 the M1A or equivalent was really the only choice.
Its AWESOME!)) AWEEEESOME(with russian accent)! like you do a movies instead of practical vids. But IM here mostly about practical vids - they are priceless!
we ran a few in Iraq as SDM rifles... (3rd Bgd 2nd Inf) they ran under 2 MOA, but we weren't running them as "Snipers", they were all squad support and performed very well in that role. I own a loaded match with a HiLux M-1200... it's a nice setup, but vastly over scoped IMO -
I built an LR308 in an 18" package, and shimmed the barrel into the upper receiver by wrapping 0.001" stainless steel shimstock. Before shimming, the groups would open up from about 1.5 moa to 4-5 moa after about 10 rounds. Now, the groups actually tighten up from 1 moa to about 0.5 to 0.75 moa after 10 rounds. The smallest things can make massive differences in precision, especially at long range. Why the US Army never adopted the .243 Winchester or its newer cousin, the 6mm Creedmoor, is beyond me. I'd 1000% rather have a 115 gr DTAC crowning a .243 Win than I would any 308 loading if I were shooting long range and my life depended on it.
Great video and info guys! Thanks I have an LRB M25, with heavy Krieger barrel and heavy McMillan stock. It is very accurate, and I still see a POI shift, to the left, at the end of a 20 round mag. That's firing once the steel stops swinging, or a few seconds between shots. It's a range rifle, too heavy for me to carry.
I’m extremely happy to see you revisit this rifle. And with stellar results for the conditions. I’d LOVE to see you revisit the Mosin PU with a rifle where the scope is working properly. I would not even be opposed to possibly setting up something for you to run mine.
*MacMillan spots a dog feeding on a dead body.* Cpt. MacMillan: Stop. Leave it alone. It's a wild dog. Pooch doesn't look too friendly. *Price shoots Doggo. 13 doggos howl in the distance* Cpt. MacMillan: That doesn't sound good... *The Surrounded OST starts playing...* The M14/M21 are pretty cool. Tho, I look at it in a weird way. It's cool in games, but IRL it just didn't really appeal to me much. Granted I never shot one, so I can't really say much about the platform, but it definitely has a "storied" mythos to it.
I had a Norinco M305 (Chinese M14 clone - I'm in Canada), and after trying a couple different types of ammo, I saw that it had potential. After a good disassembly and cleaning/oiling, a sandpaper trigger polish, and making up some M118LR clone handloads, I gave it to a friend to shoot while I spotted - he is a better shot. I asked him to shoot a 5-rd group - he put 2 in 1" at 200 yds and gave it back to me. "Don't EVER change ANYTHING else about this rifle". I have always been surprised by reports that, after all the accurizing thrown at it, the M14 sniper variants were not accurate rifles.
I remembered reading an article on Firearm blog about a National Guard guy in a M2 Bardley company in Iraq, having his M16 broken and needed a replacement part that will took months or so to ship, and ended up bluffing to armouer about qualified on M14s and signing out one from Iraq national guard inventory with a rotten stock, and he brought his own composite drop-in stock(ones that don't need approval and gunsmith to be embedded) and scopes mounts and anything he needed to make that thing rock, that still took him significantly less time on waiting on his M16 replacement parts from army supplies. He also share a story about how a switch of zone responsibility from Army to Marines Corp created a weird scene where Marines is rolling in M2s and National Guardsman shooting SMAWs.
From what I remember, basic field cleaning for M1 Garand and M14 style guns only really requires running a patch through the bore and catching it with an M1 buddy, and then opening the front end of the gas system to clean out the piston. That's certainly what competition shooters do rather than fully disassembling the gun. It is unfortunate that the M14 is so difficult to keep accurate, since I love the look and aesthetic of the gun given it looks like an M1 Garand with a box magazine, but it's hard to justify using it over other guns. I generally like the look of older guns, but other guns are much easier to modernize. For 1911s, you just add a double stack frame and some rails on it and it's still a perfectly viable modern pistol that still has benefits in pointability, trigger, and ergonomics over modern designs. And Garand Thumb already explained why retro AR-15s are making a comeback given things like modern risers being basically the height of an optic mounted on a carry handle and more and more people realizing the performance benefits of a 20" barrel. Even my SPAS-12, despite having a dated gas system compared to a Benelli M4 or Beretta 1301, can still swap between pump and auto which neither the M4 nor 1301 can do. But the M14 is hard to justify. You can get it to be as accurate and mount the necessary accessories as a modern rifle, but it's much more expensive and time-consuming to get there and I can't really think of a reason why I'd pick an M14, which is a shame because my heart really wants one.
My M14 was a mishmash of parts before we banned them in Canada. It was a project gun for me. Receiver by Norinco. Almost all the other internals were USGI by way of Israel, with Israeli stampings on them. I mated all that with an M14.ca body that took AR pistol grips and buttstocks, and threw on an M14.ca sightrail and spring guide. It was very accurate. 1MOA on a good day but not always, but more than enough for my use out to 600m. I only shot Federal 7.62 lake city brass through it. Heat shift was definitely an issue though, zero would shift after a dozen or so rounds. Still, I loved that rifle.
@@Milkman3572000 still waiting to see how our buyback will shake out. But exporting it to the US is likely not an option. You guys don't like Norinco receivers.
@@JohannKwan I have heard the Receivers were on par with US made ones. Makes me sad. The US has already cut up alot of M-14s. Thanks to Bill Clinton. I wish you well.
![M24 SWS [Sniper Weapon System] 1,000yds: Practical Accuracy (Feat. Rob Ski - U.S. Army Sniper)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z4yk8D4MgIg/mqdefault.jpg)
![M24 SWS [Sniper Weapon System] 1,000yds: Practical Accuracy (Feat. Rob Ski - U.S. Army Sniper)](/img/tr.png)
![🥇 SG 550 (Swiss Army Rifle) to 500yds: Practical Accuracy [Stgw 90 - PE 90]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FL_zcqOFrbI/mqdefault.jpg)
@9H Podcasts on Chernobyl and Pripyat (Episode 4)
th-cam.com/video/aKSGahk_3Jc/w-d-xo.html
PSA: don't just get an M1a and think it will do the same. If that worked then the U.S. gov wouldn't have to spend so much time in developing an M21-XM25 (which is essentially entirely upgraded except for the receiver/bolt/oprod. What you see here cost me 50 Benjamins, so beware before you dive into such a project.
Special thanks to
@The Armourer's Bench
"M14 In Ukraine" th-cam.com/video/sxfCz-vkcvs/w-d-xo.html
@Vintage Rifles Shooters Club
XM21th-cam.com/video/nsSRY5h0Tao/w-d-xo.html
M25 SWS th-cam.com/video/ducztiOngbQ/w-d-xo.html
By any chance can you recommend the best scopes
So, any chance you can share that m118LR clone load data? PLLLLEEEAAAASSSSEEEE?
@@damonbfriendly 43.1 RL15 + 175smk + LC brass
@@9HoleReviews Awesome! Thanks.
@@9HoleReviews What kind of velocity were you getting?
As a Platoon Leader in the 101st Airborne Division in the early 80s, I had an M21 assigned to my Platoon - fiberglass stock, ART-II scope, built by the Army Marksmanship Unit at FT Benning. The user was our best E4 marksman who was sent to FT Campbell's "sniper" course. They were definitely capable of hitting targets at 800 meters. User (and armorer) were not allowed to disassemble the rifle.
Many people - even military history fans - are not aware that the top-scoring U.S. sniper of the Vietnam conflict was U.S. Army Staff Sergeant Bert Waldron, of the 9th Infantry Division. Until the late Navy SEAL CPO Chris Kyle surpassed his record, Waldron was the top-scoring U.S. sniper of all time with 109 confirmed kills in combat. Waldron utilized an M21 - an accurized M-14 rifle with a scope - during his entire tour. He operated both during the day and at night using a Starlight scope, and once downed a V.C. guerilla at 900 meters from the prow of a moving riverine patrol craft... with his CO (commanding officer) looking on, no less.
The old saying goes, "It isn't the tool, it is the craftsman" - and Waldron probably would have been successful using any number of other platforms or weapons systems, but the fact of the matter is that he accomplished what he accomplished using an M-14.
The received wisdom is that the M-14 was unreliable in Vietnam but this is not the whole story. During that era, scoped M-14s were parted-out as a unit, scope + rifle, so that if either one of the components of the system was defective or malfunctioned, the whole thing was red-lined for repair and went into the books as needing service. The reality is that the scopes in those days failed a lot more in the harsh climate of SE Asia than the rifles themselves did. Thereby skewing the statistical data.
For what it is worth, I know a half dozen or so combat veterans of Vietnam, men who are 5-10 years older than I am (I am sixty-one), guys who used M-14s in Vietnam, and to a man, they all speak highly of the rifle. I know that because at a BBQ fifteen or so years ago, to welcome home one of the men's son's from Iraq where he'd done a tour as an 11B, they talked about the rifles - the M-14, and the M-16, which they hated! It was pretty funny, if you have ever heard a bunch of liquored-up grunts & former infantrymen start to use harsh language.... those guys... well, let's just say they could cuss quite creatively and leave it at that. They started with calling the M-16 a "poodle shooter" and things went on from there. We then button-holed the son, and asked him his opinion. He'd never used an M-14, but he liked his M16 just fine and said it never let him down.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 I have the opposite experience. We were issued M14s in McMillian stocks with Leupold optics as DMR in Iraq, and found them to be finicky and unreliable. The rifles were bedded, and the bedding made standard disassembly an armorer level task. We weren't allowed to remove the receiver from the stock for fear of disturbing the bedding. The roller bearing required grease to function and the open receiver invited grit and debris in. So the rifle's would inevitably gum up and freeze, and there was nothing we could do to restore function because we were forbidden from taking them apart. Consequently, we removed the Leupold optic from the rifle and replaced the RCO on one of our A4s with the Leupold from the M14, then called that our DMR. The M16A4 was a fine service rifle, much more reliable than the M14, and we could at least maintain the rifle to a usable degree of reliability and accuracy. The M14 was technically issued and saw service, but it rarely saw actual use, and mostly just banged around in the back of Humvees with MREs, bottled water, ammo cans, and rolls of Cope Long Cut. Later, we were issued Mk 12s as DMRs, and we happily surrendered our M14s for them. The Mk 12s and the Mk 262 became the most coveted rifle outside the wire. They were the only thing we saw high speed enough to be suppressed, they were accurate, and they did everything we asked of them out to pretty incredible distances; 600 yards pretty easily, sometimes 800 if you needed it. I have an M1 Garand I inherited from my grandpa, and an M1A that I tried to supplement it with. The Garand gets played with for nostalgia on occasion. I really tried to like the M1A, but the gas system rattled loose around 1000 rounds and had to be sent back to Springfield for a unitized gas cylinder, and then my roller bearing fell off within 12 rounds of getting it back from Springfield. I was having a helluva time getting it scoped, and having things rattle loose and fall off was kind of the the last straw. So I bought an Aero Precision AR-10, and it has been functionally superior to the M1A in every way. It is more reliable, more accurate, more durable, easier to maintain, easier to accessorize. I like the Aero Precision so much that I bought another, and now the M1A, like the M14 we were issued, is relegated to collecting dust in the closet. I have no use for it because anything it can do, my AR-10s will do better, I am hesitant to spend more money getting it shooting again because I'd rather just spend that on ammo and components for the AR-10s, and I can't get rid of it because I was bought with money I got when my mom passed, so it has sentimental value. For anything serious, I would take an AR variant over an M14 any day of the week without hesitation. It isn't even close. If you read up on the history of the M14, it has literally never been more reliable or more accurate than the M16. The M14 was like a Democrat, it couldn't win anything without cheating and was only ever adopted because Ord Corps lowered standards and sabotaged competition until it won. The adoption of the M14 was such an expensive, embarrassing debacle that both the Ord Corps and Springfield Armory never recovered from it. Then some company in IL buys rights to the name Springfield Armory so they can claim by association prestige they never earned and starts pumping out cast receiver garbage variants of an abomination service rifle and people are surprised when they have problems, like Springfield Bolt Roller Impact Defect, which I unfortunately never discovered until researching why the roller just fell off my rifle for no apparent reason.
It should be service policy that armorers aren't allowed to disassemble. None of them have a clue what they are doing.
@@OverlordGrizzaka I think he ment like basic field stripping. For field stripping an m14 it requires removing the receiver from the stock so you can get the the gas system for cleaning. But because the stock is bedded for accuracy it means you can't take it apart for basic maintenance like how it was originally designed and then used in vietnam but because we made it a Frankenstein sniper rifle you can't do basic cleaning on it
@@callsigncrusader9877 I don't care, and facts don't care about your feelings.
I carried one for a year, or a little more, in in 1966. I also shot a M1A1 in competition in the last 70's. A marine armorer showed me some tricks to make it a more accurate rifle. One of them was to cut the upper guard to free float along the stock. You would also polish the metal at the front where the guard touched the stock so it would return the the same spot after each shot.
I had a Match Conditioned M14 type rifle w/a Medium weight Criterion barrel, unitized gas cylinder, glass bedded job and a match trigger job. Even with those improvements, the rifle only shot 2MOA w/FGMM. I knew I deserved better accuracy than that so I sold it & got an AR10 type rifle which shoots about 1MOA.
Nearly the same situation here. Rifle was one of the biggest “money sucks” I’ve ever known. Beautiful rifle, a true “rifleman’s rifle”, but an out of the box AR10 shoots just as well, even a little better.
If you would have sent it to Clint Fowler and saved some money it would have shot sub MOA If you do your job.
Sent it to Ted Brown, well regarded M14 Smith. The rifle's design has too many things against it as far as potential accuracy and maintaining accuracy, mainly stock to action fit. Only an M14 apologist would try to defend the rifle not being as accurate as other designs. I see it on the M14forum all the time.
What barrel length did you chose for your ar-10?
Further evidence the M14 is just a dogshit rifle design
I love the ability you two have to be very serious and professional but also very funny without being stupid and cringy
I used one in the Marines from 2010-12. I was a Designated Marksman with F.A.S.T company. They shot great and we could shoot sub MOA groups. It was replaced in 2014 with AR10 platform.
Oh Fast is that “Fleet something Security Team” (Cant’t remember the name) right? I used to have a Marine Corps history book as a teen and remember reading about them. Always thought they were cool since they were a lesser known group.
I remember my M21 fondly. I still remember the serial number all these years later. It had a wood stock and an ART scope and we were not allowed to take them apart for cleaning. It was very accurate. In fact the picture to the left is me with my M21 around 1980.
Neat thanks for sharing!
My civilian perspective. I had my 'Crazy Horse' M21A5 type SEI in a Sage EBR chassis for several years... it was accurate, reliable, and kind of heavy. A few years ago I moved the Smith Enterprise assembled rifle into the Blackfeather RS chassis, the rifle remains accurate and reliable, but it is also about three (3) pounds lighter than the EBR chassis. Medium weight 22" barrel, 4 grooves, 1:10 ROT, chambered for M118LR... I have shot sub-MOA groups @ 100 yards using Portuguese NATO surplus using an Aimpoint CompM4 and a Wind Talker suppressor... I have never shot it at longer ranges. Smith Enterprise builds in one of the two aluminum chassis stocks with an M14 EBR trigger shoe make all the difference in the world for me.
In the early 90s I bought my first M1A (green box) at a local gun show. I was young, and strong, and carried it in the mountains while backpacking. I fell in love with the platform, and I’ve never been a turncoat. I’ve owned many NM models over the years but none as sweet as the first one. Unfortunately I traded it for a boat along the way. Now I have a LRB tanker with all the bells and whistles. I have designated it a battle rifle along with my Galil Ace in 7.62 NATO. I can still shoot out to 600 open sights and have zero problems doing so. To me it will always be cherished.
We had the M21 in the unit for years,and when I went to AMTU in 1990,right before the Gulf,that was my weapon.It was dead nuts accurate to 800 and could be pushed to 860,but we didn’t get the chance.After deployment,we never saw them again-we were retrained on the M24 SWS which was more accurate but a bolt action.
Range kitty at 7:03!
Deploy the PS-PS-PS.
Cat needs ear pro and a vest, lol
Love the video! Outstanding shooting in very difficult conditions! Greatly appreciated!
Well done Henry. We had XM21/M21s on the ODAs for my first 6 yrs in SF, then they were replaced with the M24. Later when I went thru 5th SFGA Sniper Course I had a M25 and two guys on my team had the M24s. I would later take a particular TRS M14 NM to Kenya, Iraq and All Army Match in 06' shooting out to 1000 yds with iron sights using M118LR. Today I would take either the M110/Mk11 (had a SR25 in Haiti) or the Mk17/20
My dad was a vietnam vet. He also was on his High Schools shooting team. They won the Georgia State Championship in the 1950s. He bought a match grade M 14. Said it was the ultimate rifle. My drug addicted uncle stole the rifle from us when my father passed in 2011. That broke my heart.
Great video guys and thanks so much for the shout out, Ukraine really has given some of these rifles a last hurrah! Great to see it out on the range.
I have owned several accurized civilian M14s, my favorite is a Crazy Horse M21A5 built by Smith Enterprise. I have it set up in a light weight Blackfeather RS chassis stock... it consistently shoots sub-MOA groups
Stellar performance Henry. Very interesting discussion of one shot one kill philosophy and general bad rap M14 series rifle gets
I'm surprised the Brookfield Precision Tool steel stock liner wasn't mentioned. It virtually eliminated zero shift during field strip. There were M25s used in service with this steel liner.
I really wish someone would make those again.
@@Ripper13F1V BPT's owner Mitch Mateiko did briefly come out of retirement a few years ago to make a few batches of M25 stock liners. There were only around 75-80 of them produced in total but there are some newly minted units out in circulation to be haggled for and pried out of the clutches of whoever holds one now. I was lucky enough to get ahold of one and it is currently installed in a McMillan M3A stock with my own rifle built off a Polytech M14/S receiver done up in a similar manner to Henry's own example. All the gunsmithing for the rifle itself was done by Smith Enterprise and the stock and liner work was done at Accuracy Speaks by Rio Salado Sportsman's Club. The final finished product is a beauty of a rifle.
As a sniper in the 1970s I was issued an XM21 rifle with a Leatherwood A.R.T. II scope, it was a great combination!!
Glad y'all are revisiting this platform. Yes it is not as optimized as other more modern d platforms, but having some experience with it I feel it is way overly maligned by folks who've never even held one.
Mine has been accurate, robust, and very reliable. Also, unlike many more modern platforms, when you run out of ammo you can still club your enemies to death with one.
Many years ago when my glass bedding was needing replacement I dropped my NM into a aluminum Blackfeather RS chassis and I couldn't be happier. Light weight, durable, and every bit as accurate as the original glass bedded walnut stock. I even like the look.
Quietus13 - You caught my eye with the mention of the Blackfeather system. Can you get them in the 'States? I'm asking because they're a Canadian design, if memory serves.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 yes they are Canadian but I had no problems ordering mine shipped to my house in the US. I was able to do the installation mostly myself, although my NM barrel was just slightly too fat for a ring component that I had a local gun smith machine for me.
@@quietus13 - Thanks for the info!
use it all the time in cod
This is one of the best M-14 type rifle videos out there. Anyone who wants to get into this firearm should watch it to be aware of what they buying and why they would want to buy it. Excellent job and keep up the great work!
Fantastic episode gentlemen, I fall into the former category that are very fond of the M-14/M-21 system as I was that cold war sailor who carried the M-14 for ships security and on a rare occasion ashore to provide security for a detachment from my ship. One day if I can ever afford it, I would love to upgrade my Polytech M1A to a M-21 standard. One day I hope to be able to join your patron supporters, alas the last few years have been challenging to make ends meet. Cheers, and keep up the great content. ! - Wright Sublette
Send your Poly to Smith Enterprise, Ron Smith knows more about the Chinese M14 than the Chinese do.
@@THEH2OMAN awesome ! Thanks so much :)
The problem with the M-14's reputation was that it was initially thought of with extreme reverence. Recently there has been a trend to go the opposite and completely trash it. It has become fashionable to treat it like it is the worst rifle ever, simply to be on the side of certain TH-cam celebrities. It's like the forward assist. People have suddenly decided you are stupid if you like having one on your AR. I think the truth in most cases lies somewhere in the middle. My own personal M-1A (that I stupidly sold) was pretty accurate and reliable, but I was using it with iron sights and I am not a Henry-level shot, so it's all subjective.
The M14 is a mistake. It doesn't matter whether it's good or not-it never should have existed.
The undeniable fact is that we had a better rifle available, and the Army chose to ignore it.
In the world of precision, "fine" isnt supposed to be okay.
Well it did completely choke on the mud test.
People trash the M14 because the FAL was a better choice from a technical and operational perspective but the US wanted an American design
@@jesseterrell2109 It fired one round, the FAL fired two. Not much difference.
The horseplay from you guys never dissapoints. Nor does the shooting, wow
I competed on my unit's rifle team (National Guard) with a M14 back in the early 90's and did extremely well with it. That started my love affair with the platform. Fasy forward to 2013 and I picked up a M1A scout. Long story short did a bunch of upgrades, developed a handload, added glass, headshots at 684 yards are totally doable and repeatable. That said, not the rifle to use for PRS matches. lol I used it my first year shooting PRS and while fun I knew I needed something different. Ended up switching to a AR chambered in 6mm ARC. I still take the M1A with me to matches as a backup. Why? I had the extractor break on my 6 ARC and (foolishly) didn't have spare parts but my wife was coming up later in the day (the break happened during practice the day before the match) so I had her grab Vera (my M1A) and I used Vera for that match. Have to admit, it was fun putting Vera through her paces again during a match. If nothing else it's always a crowd pleaser.
The most successful, reliable, and accurate EBRs were the 6000+ M14EBR-RI the Army fielded, and the 125 MK14 Mod 0 type SEI rifle that Smith Enterprise refitted.
Any chance we'll get to see an EBR/EMR on this channel at some point?
Anyone making fun of their comments regarding the "cold" weather, some perspective is needed. I was born and raised in Houston, moving out of the State in 1999. I have lived in North Dakota ever since. I can tell you, without hesitation, 20 degrees below zero, with low humidity, feels better than 20 degrees above zero in high humidity. The humidity cuts the cold right down to your bones.
I actually got that when we were in Afghanistan during spring thaw. Every day, it would melt, then mud, and wet boots. Like you , I also would much rather be in colder temps in the Alps than wet afghan mountains in the spring with wet everything for weeks.
Classic, Cousin Harry strikes again!
LOVED the M21. Consistent sub MOA groups at 1000m.
The thing that always scared me away from the M14/M1A was how much "tuning" the hardcore M1A shooters claimed was needed to keep up the rifle's accuracy. Those guys would show up to matches with large toolboxes that were dedicated to making sure that every little thing was absolutely harmonized so that accuracy wouldn't suffer. It seemed like a nightmare for anyone who didn't get off with tinkering incessantly.
I shot High Power competition for years with the AR and the M1A. The M1A is a super finicky thing. It costs three times as much to make an M1A shoot as well as a box stock Rock River Arms NM rifle.
I think a lot of this is also fine tuning a rifle for gnats ass accuracy when there is a practical accuracy for a DMR style rifle. If your goal is to punch tiny holes in paper, there are better, cheaper, platforms. If you want something with some history, which is also quite accurate, the M14 platform just fits. Nothing else quite shoots like a Garand action does. It's VERY distinct.
FWIW, my M1A Loaded, basically a national match in a non bedded wood stock, has always shot consistently 1-1.25MOA 10 round groups without any tweaking after cleaning. There is DEFINITELY a settle in period of about 5-10 rounds after you first mate the stock to the action from a full disassembly, but once you are outside that window, it settles in quite nicely to being boringly predictable. As it stands, I'm about 1,000 rounds into the current full disassembly/reassembly, and it's been consistently at 1.25 MOA 10 round groups. I'm about 4,000 rounds in total through the barrel and she is just a straight shooter.
Now, back to that practical accuracy thing, what goal are you attempting to achieve with your rifle? If you cannot define that mission, then should you really be buying a rifle at all? I don't think so. I bought mine for a fun plinking rifle that I could also take hog hunting if I wanted to. It's plenty capable of that job... again, practical accuracy. If you really want gnats ass tiny groups on paper, which is totally fine, the M14/M1A offers very little to you other than history, a good trigger, and great looks.
I love the historic side of the video, so many details surrounding the M14/M21 that I was unaware of up to this point. Nicely shot as always, Henry!
Very interesting video! I have a Springfield M1a Loaded model and it’s one of the most accurate rifles I own. It’s nothing super fancy. It doesn’t have a McMillan stock and I have a Vortex Viper 6-24x and one of them Springfield muzzle breaks on it. I’ve gotten some pretty impressive groups with it. One day me and a buddy went to a local range that had steel plates out to just under 400 yards. They had some that were a little smaller than the size of a man’s head way out there, and to my amazement I actually nailed that little thing with that rifle. I know the M14/M1a is a mixed bag nowadays, but from my personal experience it’s an accurate and reliable rifle
Henry, your M14 inspired me to create a clone of my own. I love my M21 and I love the reactions I get at the range with it. It was worth the kidney I sold to finance it.
Great video! I carried/used multiple variants over the years. I loved the system BUT it would not be my first pick when alternate systems became available. One of the main reasons for the M14 in the maritime environment was exactly what you said; availability. We need something between M16/M4 and the M2. The M60/M240 was the orginal answer but not the solution. After a study conducted by the Army in South Korea, their conclusion was the crew served weapons would cause too much damage when used with a built up harbor area that we needed to off load vital supplies. That was the original start in rethinking the viability re-fielding the M14. This was right before GWOT. We had a need, but no budget so we.....
These intros man *chef's kiss*
Those screams will haunt my nightmares forever. Thanks for that. Your clicks at 300 yds were spot on Henry...right in the pump house! 👍❤
My father carried one in Iraq 2004-05, and apparently the stripping, servicing and reassembly procedures for them was very similar to Springfield’s National Match rifles, which he owned several of and had learned to service, and thus was then able to service and clean his M21 in his bunker with tools he bought with his own money, without the need for his armorer.
@7:03 a cat just chilling, walkin around in the background while a phat .308 battle rifle is slinging lead like 50 yards away. Now thats a disciplined cat
As someone who is surrounded by M14s & professional shooters i know how much skill is involved to run a 14 like that.
Excellent work sir!
In Canada, it was popular because it was one of the only Cold War semi-auto rifles allowed for civilians to own (the Norinco version) not anymore sadly; It also wasn't gonna break the bank.
Don't worry. Our government will change soon. Liberals days are numbered. M1a will come back as non restricted. Trust on this.
@@eagleace67 FYI, Conservative Party is no better then the Liberal Party in my opinion.
The innovation with the M14SE cannot be undersold. The consistent accuracy without bedding was a big improvement. The SEI built rifles in USGI Fiberglass stocks tend to hold their accuracy quite a bit better after tear down.
I am very impressed by the groups on most of those plates, seemed like sub MOA on the 300 yard target for sure.
I carried a XM-21 in Iraq in 2010/2011 with the 25th inf. (Bco. 1/27wolfhounds) tell we got the M-110 mid deployment. I grew up with the Vietnam model one because my grandfather carried one. Loved both but the M-110 for sure was better lol. Just picked up a 6.5 creedmoor one to make look more old school but with better BC.
The US should've gone with the FAL over the M14 back in the pre-Viet Nam acquisition days, full stop. That aside, the M14 and M1A and all their variants are fun to shoot. Nice run guys.
Truly, a Cannes worthy performance from Josh there.
Fun fact: I used to work for McMillan and found a manufacturing defect in that stock that they had been making for what, 45 years? That was actually my last official act when I was there.
what was the defect?
@@GunFunZSBoeing hit man got to him
Accuracy reliability and impressive kinetic energy beyond 300 yards.Truly amazing.
..l gotta admit man, THESE are some of my FAV vids you guys. Y’all do an EXCELLENT job. I mean on everything from the set-up, choosing particularly your platforms and ammo specifics..all the way to music and editing, intros and outros. Just couldn’t really improve that I know of. Makes me want to change-out my ‘wood’-stocked M1A to a McMillan M21-style. I’ll leave the “old” Redfield 3x9 in place..great stuff!
19:33 kitty cat roaming around enjoying the range
I’m 164 lbs 6’3”. Something inside me is drawn to the m1a/14/21 platform. I like to tell myself it’s because of the smooth, sleek, old fashioned look. Then reality reminds me I love’em heavy.
Great video! My LRB M14 is an absolute tack driver. I think its very important to keep the M14 alive in the hearts of a new generation of Americans.
I have converted my rifle into the M25 version. To avoid your concerns that you stated about losing POI when breaking down the weapon to clean.
I ordered my McMillian M1A stock in the Ft Devens cut configuration. As when I sent my rifle to Jon Tank to install. Steel bedding block in to the Ft Devens in letting. When all was said and done the build took almost 10 years to the day. Below is a list of modified parts. NOTE the only original part on the rifle is the receiver.
M25
SA receiver
USGI gas system unitized and hand lapped with front ferrel fit to stock with vent hole drilled
McMillian M1A stock with Ft. Devens cut
Jon Tank steel bed liner
Jon Tank NM Guide Rod
USGI TRW trigger group tuned by Jon Tank
USGI TRW OpRod tuned by Jon Tank
USGI TRW Bolt headspaced by Bruce Dow
USGI NM/2A rear site base
WCE elevation knob
GMI NM windage knob
Bruce Dow Custom guide rod pin
Shuster Gas Plug
"Rooster 33 " (R33) extended bolt catch
LMT 18" barrel
Surefire 762 m14 supressor adaptor
Surefire 762k supressor
Smith Enterprises U.S.N. Mk14 SEI Gas Lock/ Front site
Smith Enterprises M14 gas piston
Smith Enterprises cheek piece
Harris HBRM Bipod
A.RM.S. #18 mount
A.R.M.S. 22 low rings
Leupold M4 with illuminated Ret w/ factory upgraded 1/4 MOA turrets
May not be the most modern platform but the mojo factor is off the charts.
Fingers crossed in the hopes of one day seeing a practical accuracy run with a HK PSG1.
"When you gain the reliability that goes along with it, that is a factor that is much more desirable than that extra 2.4 inches" Henry Chan 2022
Sorry I couldn't resist 😋
An M1A has been my dream rifle since boot camp, and I recently got one on consignment at a great price. I couldn't tell that it had ever been fired, as there was zero visible wear anywhere on it. It's the "loaded" version, with an archangel stock. I haven't shot it a lot yet, but have no delusions about what it's capable of, but I do want to get all it IS capable of. Range time today, I got it on steel at 200 yards with some Winchester white box M80, head stamped LC 22 with a NATO cross. Got about 3" at 200 yards with no problems, at all. So I pulled out some brown box Winchester "M118 Long Range, 175gr Sierra Matchking BTHP Service Grade," Head stamped LC LR 21 (no NATO cross) Out of 11 rounds, I blew out 3 primers. The one primer I found was not pierced, but those cases were badly beat up!
Have you seen this phenomenon on the M1A with that load?
The US Army: We adopted a new battle rifle that's in a large caliber for long range and hard hitting
Vietnam vets: We were right all along!
As someone who belongs to the cult of people that believes the M1 Garand to be a superior rifle to the M14 and various clones out there for a number a reasons not just relating to performance, I will admit that this video really illustrates that, despite the M14s lackluster stint as the US Service Rifle, I can still find the rifle quite interesting and historically significant, but only due to its use *outside* of being the US Service Rifle.
I am the proud owner of one of the Carlos Hathcock M-25 "Whitefeather" rifles. You know I had to watch this.
One of my best childhood memories was my buddy getting codMW and us playing all ghillied up in the living room
168smk 42gr imr4895 in mil brass. M852 clone. Shoots great!
It is still being utilized on the battle field. I am a M-14 fanboy so I enjoy Her quirks. Great Video. Lots of info and pics I have never seen.
My dudes, y’all can make a video about slingshots and I will still watch the hell out of it. I learn something new every time I watch a video and it is always a treat to listen to the debriefs. 👍
Love seeing the vapor trail, and then hearing a '....ding...'.
I love these transitional period type of weapons. You can see elements of the previous era's design philosophy being merged with the next age's. A lot of my favorite firearms come from these periods such as cartridge conversions guns between the eras of muzzle loaders and cartridges, the turn of the 20th century with early auto loaders where every design was very unique and different due to designers solving new problems in their own way, and today's redesigning / modernization of older weapons with newer optics/furniture to meet a use-case gap of the modern age. Firearms of these periods you can just look at how they were built and almost read the story like a book.
As a DM we used these for our base platform at 800 and 1200 meters. Our alternative was the Rem 700 platform. The semi auto allowed you to stay in form and on the target. Bolt action took longer to re establish zero. We also used them for silent drill. I would take it over most modern day platforms. And number one choice in the field of battle!
Friendly reminder the m14 was never designed to be a precision rifle system, and excelled in the design it was made for. Making it a precision rifle system was an after thought of using weapons on hand and saving money for the military, but man was it a cool rifle. Its legacy is a testament to its design. Is it a good precision rifle ? No. Is it a sexy "precision" rifle. Hell yeah.
Australian special forces were using Mk14s in some capacity. Most notably Victoria Cross recipient Ben Roberts Smith was photographed with one
7:07 that cat be like "keep shooting don't mind me"
500 yard the vapor trail was very obvious. Nice
We love our M1A Scout Rifle. She's not sub MOA but 1 to 2 MOA on a cool day at 300 yards with a 2:00 wind @ 12 to 15mph.
With 308 you reach out at a great distance.
Glad to see things went better on this go around, especially considering the weather. I think a solution to a lot of the M14 issues that hasn't gotten enough publicity is the M14.CA Blackfeather stock system. It's an aluminum chassis, but it basically follows the profile of the GI fiberglass stock. It also allows for either an AR style pistol grip and stock or a Magpul SGA shotgun stock. The critical improvement is replacing the op rod guide with a new one that a bolt goes through the chassis and into. By eliminating the need need for contact at the gas cylinder, draw pressure remains consistent even when disassembled for cleaning. The adjustment for draw pressure is in the new op rod guide and remains locked once initially set. It's more ergonomic and lighter than the Sage chassis. And for what a KAC M110 costs, you can do a lot of work on a M14.
I agree, when my NM in walnut was needing new bedding, I decided to drop mine in a Blackfeather and I have been very happy. Not cheap, but I had no loss of accuracy, if anything a slight improvement. Adds next to no weight and isn't bulky unlike other chassis out there. I'm really surprised you don't see or hear more about them, they really bring the M14 system up to more modern standards.
Yes!
@@THEH2OMAN not sure if you're the same H2Oman but your posts in forums circa 2005 is a lot of the reason why I ended up with an M1a ha. Coming out of the AWB, the AR-10 ecosystem was a shadow of what it is now, and they had a terrible reputation for reliability. So for a semiauto .308 the M1A or equivalent was really the only choice.
7:04 that cat gave zero fucks lol
Anyone else see the cat casually strolling behind Henry at 7:05
By far the coolest "Gun Dude" on TH-cam, well done...
Designated smartsman rifle has a ring to it
I'm glad to see it came together this time.
One of my buddies said that the M21 was the Captain America of firearms. Old with new, powerful but niche, lots of growing pains.
You two just get better and better.
Its AWESOME!)) AWEEEESOME(with russian accent)! like you do a movies instead of practical vids. But IM here mostly about practical vids - they are priceless!
we ran a few in Iraq as SDM rifles... (3rd Bgd 2nd Inf) they ran under 2 MOA, but we weren't running them as "Snipers", they were all squad support and performed very well in that role.
I own a loaded match with a HiLux M-1200... it's a nice setup, but vastly over scoped IMO -
My GOD! That's some brilliant voice acting!
I built an LR308 in an 18" package, and shimmed the barrel into the upper receiver by wrapping 0.001" stainless steel shimstock. Before shimming, the groups would open up from about 1.5 moa to 4-5 moa after about 10 rounds.
Now, the groups actually tighten up from 1 moa to about 0.5 to 0.75 moa after 10 rounds.
The smallest things can make massive differences in precision, especially at long range.
Why the US Army never adopted the .243 Winchester or its newer cousin, the 6mm Creedmoor, is beyond me. I'd 1000% rather have a 115 gr DTAC crowning a .243 Win than I would any 308 loading if I were shooting long range and my life depended on it.
Great video and info guys! Thanks
I have an LRB M25, with heavy Krieger barrel and heavy McMillan stock. It is very accurate, and I still see a POI shift, to the left, at the end of a 20 round mag. That's firing once the steel stops swinging, or a few seconds between shots.
It's a range rifle, too heavy for me to carry.
🎶I don't want no teenage queen.... I just want my M14! 🎶
The old M14 just will not die
I’m extremely happy to see you revisit this rifle. And with stellar results for the conditions. I’d LOVE to see you revisit the Mosin PU with a rifle where the scope is working properly. I would not even be opposed to possibly setting up something for you to run mine.
When the rifle doesn’t set the course record:
Mission failed get ‘em next time
Shitty calculus exam on friday just cured by the appearance of Cousin Harry. You guys are the best.
*MacMillan spots a dog feeding on a dead body.*
Cpt. MacMillan: Stop. Leave it alone. It's a wild dog. Pooch doesn't look too friendly.
*Price shoots Doggo. 13 doggos howl in the distance*
Cpt. MacMillan: That doesn't sound good...
*The Surrounded OST starts playing...*
The M14/M21 are pretty cool. Tho, I look at it in a weird way. It's cool in games, but IRL it just didn't really appeal to me much. Granted I never shot one, so I can't really say much about the platform, but it definitely has a "storied" mythos to it.
That was kinda weird watching Josh check himself out in the webcam throughout their whole discussion
You guys present an amazing program. Your skill level is eye-opening, and a joy to watch. Very good production.
Henry's M21 one of the most beautiful rifles ever!!! The m110 also!
I had a Norinco M305 (Chinese M14 clone - I'm in Canada), and after trying a couple different types of ammo, I saw that it had potential.
After a good disassembly and cleaning/oiling, a sandpaper trigger polish, and making up some M118LR clone handloads, I gave it to a friend to shoot while I spotted - he is a better shot.
I asked him to shoot a 5-rd group - he put 2 in 1" at 200 yds and gave it back to me. "Don't EVER change ANYTHING else about this rifle".
I have always been surprised by reports that, after all the accurizing thrown at it, the M14 sniper variants were not accurate rifles.
Love you guys! Thank you for the content.
I remembered reading an article on Firearm blog about a National Guard guy in a M2 Bardley company in Iraq, having his M16 broken and needed a replacement part that will took months or so to ship, and ended up bluffing to armouer about qualified on M14s and signing out one from Iraq national guard inventory with a rotten stock, and he brought his own composite drop-in stock(ones that don't need approval and gunsmith to be embedded) and scopes mounts and anything he needed to make that thing rock, that still took him significantly less time on waiting on his M16 replacement parts from army supplies. He also share a story about how a switch of zone responsibility from Army to Marines Corp created a weird scene where Marines is rolling in M2s and National Guardsman shooting SMAWs.
From what I remember, basic field cleaning for M1 Garand and M14 style guns only really requires running a patch through the bore and catching it with an M1 buddy, and then opening the front end of the gas system to clean out the piston. That's certainly what competition shooters do rather than fully disassembling the gun.
It is unfortunate that the M14 is so difficult to keep accurate, since I love the look and aesthetic of the gun given it looks like an M1 Garand with a box magazine, but it's hard to justify using it over other guns. I generally like the look of older guns, but other guns are much easier to modernize. For 1911s, you just add a double stack frame and some rails on it and it's still a perfectly viable modern pistol that still has benefits in pointability, trigger, and ergonomics over modern designs. And Garand Thumb already explained why retro AR-15s are making a comeback given things like modern risers being basically the height of an optic mounted on a carry handle and more and more people realizing the performance benefits of a 20" barrel. Even my SPAS-12, despite having a dated gas system compared to a Benelli M4 or Beretta 1301, can still swap between pump and auto which neither the M4 nor 1301 can do.
But the M14 is hard to justify. You can get it to be as accurate and mount the necessary accessories as a modern rifle, but it's much more expensive and time-consuming to get there and I can't really think of a reason why I'd pick an M14, which is a shame because my heart really wants one.
This work was impressive. Solid stuff, right here.
My M14 was a mishmash of parts before we banned them in Canada. It was a project gun for me. Receiver by Norinco. Almost all the other internals were USGI by way of Israel, with Israeli stampings on them. I mated all that with an M14.ca body that took AR pistol grips and buttstocks, and threw on an M14.ca sightrail and spring guide.
It was very accurate. 1MOA on a good day but not always, but more than enough for my use out to 600m. I only shot Federal 7.62 lake city brass through it. Heat shift was definitely an issue though, zero would shift after a dozen or so rounds.
Still, I loved that rifle.
Did this rifle make it to America? They didnt crush it did they? We understand WHY they collected your rifle now.
M14EBR (dot) US imports the Blackfeather into America
@@Milkman3572000 still waiting to see how our buyback will shake out. But exporting it to the US is likely not an option. You guys don't like Norinco receivers.
@@JohannKwan I have heard the Receivers were on par with US made ones. Makes me sad. The US has already cut up alot of M-14s. Thanks to Bill Clinton. I wish you well.