On the decents all vehicles had to rely on crawl control and foot brake, our tree surgeons Unimog 406 with its cascade gearbox would just crawl down on engine breaking alone, traction permitting, was still impressed with the Defender though, getting a bit closer to ordering a Defender 90 Commercial if reliability issues don't increase.
@@clooperman3745 media has overblown the reliability issues in my opinion. The TFL guys were v unlucky with theres well particularly the first one. I know a few people that have bought new Defenders and theyve not had any issues
@@MCYCCFL Someone in Toyota is reading that and saying "two repairs in only 148k - is that lemon law for us?". The Defender won fair and square but I do wonder how many times it could do it before its on a tow truck. The Toyotas could do this until the oil runs dry.
@@siraff4461 or after 10 years and the frame is rusted away to oblivion. While the Toyota’s and Defender are in the junk yard rusting away I will be driving my Jeep till the end of time. Jeep’s are the reason FJs are no longer for sale and Jeep sells twice as many as the 4Runner for a reason!
A more accurate name for this video would be “Approach and Departure Angle Shootout”. No tracks with rocks, ruts, mud or sand. No articulation was needed, I would be interested in seeing how these vehicles do in low traction situations, specifically mud. I’m sure all the electronic features are cool, but every time the drivers aren’t confident they put it in crawl control and lock the diffs, which i think would be better used as a last resort if the trucks struggle and start burning rubber, let us see how the vehicles behave naturally. I get it, you have lots of $$ in these trucks, but it’s kind of like “Hey let’s do an off-road shootout and put the trucks through hell, but let’s avoid any obstacle that could do any damage to the trucks.”
Yeah, I have a 4Runner with crawl control, listening to it work is almost painful, LOL. Definitely a last-resort option, I rather just drive and use my right foot to control my speed. I've seen other videos of this trail, one recently where even a built Tacoma and 4Runner were having some traction issues trying to get up some of these hills. I know these obstacles that they showcase here look dramatic on screen, but I think there are more difficult obstacles here that would show-off articulation more. I mean even going down the butt scratcher, the Rover managed to lift a wheel.
That is exactly what I was thinking, the defender has great angles, but it would SUCK every where else, even at 25:30 it was lifting a wheel, no articulation at all, but that's to be expected from a unibody, no solid axle axle Cross over
Completely agree. Just the other day I was stuck in some deep mud and it was flat ground. We need some different terrain scenarios to really test these vehicles.
@@dallasmellsop5488 exactly. Everyone wants so bad for this new Defender to be amazing off-road, and it may be in some aspects, LR,s traction control is the reason they stopped using lockable diffs years ago on the Discovery’s after all. But you said it here, this vehicle is a crossover, a hell of a nice car excluding the reliability issues, but not an off-roader. No serious off reader / over lander is going to buy this car, it will stay on highways and mall trips and close to the dealer. If this were called the Disco nobody would care. But you call it a Defender, brand it as a serious off-roader then come out with this? Come on man!
No it wasn’t. A lower mileage FJ would have more value. He’s conflating time with use. If it has 1500 miles on it in prestige condition, then it would be worth twice what it is.
Defender just makes everything look so damn easy compared to the others. AND it’s stock AND it hasn’t even got the optional rear locker and serious off-road tyres AND it’s the only one that is actually nice to drive on road. It might not be as tough looking as the others but for what it’s designed to do it deserves respect.
The FJ is 7 years old, stock, reliable, and relatively cheap...and it really has very little trouble hanging with all the rest. Not only do many FJ's appreciate in value...but they're also just getting started with 100-150K miles on the odometer.
I love fjs, I wish they still made them, but Toyota chose to compete directly with the wrangler, and a four door wrangler (the first gen jk with the shitty minivan motor) beat it in space, power, fuel efficiency, it had a truly removable top and a proper rear set of doors instead of an extended cab type of setup, solid front axle that’ll smash ifs off-road and for bigger tires and so on... it really needed an update or something to compete, they tried to edge their way into a niche with a more capable vehicle
@@chanceym6000 True...but remember many bought their FJ's back BEFORE the price insanity started. Bought 2007 when it came off a 3-year lease with 32K miles for $23K 10 years ago...it now has 243K miles on it after 10 years...and still runs great and has saved us many times in tough New Hampshire Winters.
@@Timtimzi Assuming you mean to purchase that of course would depend on the cost and what shape it's in. I regularly drive around in a 2007 FJ with about 235K miles on it...and it drives great.
Tommy dropping bombs. “I didn’t realize it was a competition about who can take the most people to school, and I am looking around and don’t see any tow trucks around here.” Funny.
The Defender seems to be unstoppable. Between you’re videos and a few others showcasing a stock Defender’s off road capabilities, its mind blowing. Highly considering purchasing a base model with steel 18” wheels, the Explorer Pack, ladder, front skid plate, bright side tubes (sliders), recovery hooks, and the Warn Winch.
I have one and very capable. Just a few things I would change on your build. Skip the explore pack, waste of money. Buy the parts you want on the secondary market. Most of us are 50/50 on the lunch box. I don't like it. The ladder is cool but it limits what rack you go with on the roof. Skip the LR rails and get real rock sliders from lucky 8. Grab the standard tire and change it out with something better for offroad.
@@lukarancini1630 I have the P300 so the 4-cylinder turbo. I chose it because the axel gear ratio is different than the larger engine. The p300 engine and hear ratio setup is more time for towing and off-roading
So glad to see the stock FJ showing that all electronic nanny and super expensive mods are useless. The FJ costs HALF of the other two and did exactly the same thing
I love Moab content, but would like to see a trail other than Fins and Things. The slick rock is so sticky you aren't testing how good the 4x4 system is, the only thing really being tested is approach/break over/departure angle and maybe a little bit of articulation. Poison spider would be a good test without being too crazy. Just my opinion...
I wonder if they use fins because it's relatively short and has those steep descenst that make for more dramatic footage. I ran fins once, I was in Moab mountainbiking and decided to rent a Jeep one day. Did it alone with no spotter, had the trail all to myself, in a 2 inch lifted 2-door Rubicon with stock tires. It was cake, didn't rub anywhere at all, and everything was relatively easy for someone who hadn't been off roading in about 15 years. Would 100% run it in my stock 4Runner. I agree about seeing different variety in Moab, but I do enjoy watching them run this trail because since I've done it myself, I recognize these obstacles. I think they probably have to run a fine line between something challenging enough to look good, but not so crazy that they're going to damage vehicles that aren't theirs. I know there's so much crazier stuff in Moab, but I've also seen other TH-camrs run the types of trails that I would do in my Volvo XC70 LOL. I remember the morning I rented the Rubicon, I started off doing chicken corners, and there was an Outback in front of me, haha.
@@trailrunnah8886 I understand liking to see a trail you have done in the past, but they have quite a few videos on Fins now. hells revenge would be a better option. You are even closer to town, you can turn around any time, there are so many different lines you can take to make easier or more difficult, but they have done that trail a lot too. With as many awesome trails around moab, it would just be nice to see thing mixed up every once in a while. Just for the record, I'm not hating, just some constructive criticism.
Exactly right. When an unlocked rig doesn’t squeal a tire with the suspension articulation of a shifter cart, then all you did was mall crawl it. . Spoiler, the trucks will scrape more so the defender will win because the 4R’s d ring touched a couple times.
@@truaxoffroad good idea! I think they've run Hell's before, but I think it was on press event and not necessarily with vehicles they were testing on their own. I might trip I wanted to run Hells too, the guys at the rental place recommended Fins first, and if I enjoyed that to hit Hell's. Unfortunately I did some sightseeing earlier in the day so I was running out of daylight and didn't get a chance to hit Hell's.
I was impressed by all 3 vehicles! Great Job guys. I do own the 2020 Defender and seriously it’s the best all around vehicle I’ve ever owned. I’m 65 and I’ve owned many , this is one special vehicle on and off the road . And I’m typing this reply without hair Gel !! All in good fun I know. Cheers
Fantastic Saturday morning content! TFL does a terrific job with this logistical challenge. From the vehicle choices, presenters, camera support team to the editing. Well done everyone! Thanks for all the top notch efforts. Had to have been fun as well. :) I will take the stock FJ for the win because it won't give me pause if I scraped it.
Thank you for the honest trial on different platforms. I have been watching your videios for the last two years and yes I got a 4Runner for my new work location in Yellowknife. I have been here for a week now and it seems that this suv is very popular. Thanks agains for your honest reviews it helped me to select my SUV. Keep up the good work. Greetings from the North.
@@theshadypilot I'd prefer non of those... Sports cars are for those in a mid-life crisis and women. I am neither... I'll stick to trucks; specifically Toyota trucks.
I feel like this should be titled “overlander’s off road challenge”... Call Nathan when you make a video with a wrangler, power wagon, and land cruiser
The fact that the Defender is really a compromise between a practical luxury family car and an off reader yet it not only keeps up with but can beat dedicated modified 4x4s is just insane. Almost makes it seem cheap for 2 cars in one
They didn't do anything "hard".. going down a bunch of ledges just shows approach and departure angles. I dont think any of the vehicles lost traction once! Not much of a test if you ask me...
Yup really capable here but i think it would fun to watch it with undulations and low traction conditions. Places where its full independent suspension will be put to test. Im sure itll still get the job done tho
@@krover01 Nothing hard? They're driving three of the most capable vehicle on market... just because they didn't lose traction that's not a good parse for difficulty... Some of this stuff was greater than 35+ degrees which is a HUGE angle... 45 degrees is half of 90 which is a perfectly vertical angle for reference. You're nuts if you think this stuff wasn't hard. That just means the vehicles performed so well they made it look easy. Which in turn makes your ignorance a compliment.
The Defender really was impressive. It seemed to handle those obstacles very smoothly. Land Rover did a really good job tuning that thing. The two Toyotas were also very good.
TFL- THE BEST ENTERTAINMENT ALL AROUND. I love the chemistry of all 3 of them. Just an amazing channel if you are into any type of vehicle related content Love from Pakistan.
You guys already know what a huge difference tires make. For much more meaningful vehicle off road performance comparisons, USE THE SAME BRAND and MODEL TIRES ON THE VEHICLES !
Reliability and price point takes it off my list of things. I don't like to hate on brands based on reliability rumors but Land Rover has probably the worst reputation or at least the same level as Mini.
Yeah, I read an article the other day, even a high up exec at Jaguar Land Rover says that they probably lose about 100k sales a year due to their reputation for being unreliable.
@@scottnewsham2496 Still got my engine and transmission with no problems at 170k miles in my land rover, and I understand the newer transmissions are even better! not sure about the engines though
@@jonlosito2004 and even not towing gets worse fuel mileage than my power wagon on 35’s lol…. honestly it’s impressive how crappy Toyota’s little baby V6’s get such terrible mileage, defies logic.
@@bodyoftruth7766 So let's look around dealerships for the cheapest FJ you can find so you can use the price as a leverage point as to why an FJ with money invested into it is better than other offroad vehicles that are stock. Once again, your argument is invalid.
@@Spankymf There are 10 for sale in my are that are under 20k, which IS a quarter of the cost of the Defender AND the heavily modified Gladiator. I also like how you ignored the modifications to the Jeep. Once again, you critical thinking skills have failed you. Try again, mate.
I traded a 2020 rubicon unlimited for a 2020 defender and I must say the defender is not joke . Even has higher ground clearance then the jeep .I thought the lack of sway bar disconnect would be the difference maker but the defender has independent suspension, sway disconnect not needed .
I wouldn’t say the FJ really struggled at all. It did pretty dang good. It barely touched in a few places. Compared to a super tricked out 4 runner and a $80k defender it kept up great. I love those things.
And you can't modify a Defender to improve it's offroad ability. Meanwhile that FJ still has a lot of improvement and aftermarket support to make it a beast..
This is the best off-road defender video I’ve see. I think it’s amazing how a stock vehicle that can happily drive around town can just go out and do Moab
Ok, great video! I see the point of what you're doing. I personally would ALSO enjoy seeing how the vehicles articulate through ravines amd off camber rock crawling. You know getting the vehicle where 2 tires are off, seeing how they do in the sand. Not just approach amd departures.
HEY TFL! Defender would perform even better if you lower it onto a rock and use the “Extended” suspension mode. But don't use the “hyper extended” mode, as there’s no cushioning left. Also, remove the front plastic cover that exposes the front recovery eye as this increases the approach angle. (And then it’s ready to be towed home when it breaks ;) Just joking, it’s not as bad as its reputation)
SUVs are definitely better for off-roading than pickups due to their shorter overhangs and wheelbases and since the Defender was the best of these SUVs, it's the best of the whole group as well.
Problem is the defender isn't actually a SUV, technically it's just a cuv (crossover). It's a shame they only tested the aproach and departure angles in this video, no real challenges like rock crawling or mud pits. That's where the defender would fail, it's unibody, no live axles at all, stiff air suspension, it's got no articulation at all (it somehow lifts a wheel at 25:30)
Tommy complaining about the defender while driving a hoped up 4Runner is just funny. Here’s a 4Runner completely decked out but I’m going to knock a stock vehicle that can do all that the 4Runner can. Comprehensive journalism
@TFLoffroad I’m confused how the defender takes the cake in your ORI for payload….anything without a bed should essentially max at a 3 or something. The axle rating (I’m guessing is the source for the score) might say 1,000+ pounds, but please explain to me how you load that actual weight limit in the rear portion of the vehicle. Keep in mind, towing is its own category, and roof racks tend to have similar dynamic weight limits. Never mind this payload being anything but gear-1000 pounds of dirt, wood, or construction equipment…forget about it!
@@private6549 Depends on definition of 'better'. I've never been a huge fan of the Raptor because it's just a go-fast-in-the-desert truck. The TRX is that turned up to 11. Neither is much of a crawler. I'd expect the PW to do better there.
Power wagon competes with the f250 tremor and the gladiator is a good representation with solid axels with disconectable sway bars and lockers front and rear just like the ram.
Nothing was invited. The Wrangler 2 door would have easily done the best, and they picked desert running trucks that have horrible clearance. A rav4 would have done all this.
When you think that the defender can do that in what can only be described as a city tractor , it is quite remarkable. If it’s specified with the right kit it can look like the others ie with the arch kits, snorkel, ladder and rack kit so well done Land Rover for making a car that can attract the masses 👏👏
Great video! These big comparison videos are among my favorite types of videos from you guys. Great editing and cinematography in this one as well, especially the opening shots. Looks very polished! Very impressed with the Defender, it's really growing on me. Have to say the jury is still out on long-term dependability though, of course.
FJ's shipped with LOW springs up front (you can see the rake), presumably to improve MPG somehow. After some miles, those front springs sag so low that the FJ is riding on its bumpstops and has a really harsh ride on or off-road. Slap a mild Toytec lift on it to fix this shortcoming, disconnect the swaybars, and you have yourself a winner for offroad as well as on. Mine is a magic carpet compared with when I bought it all-stock.
Personally I think a 2005 v8 4Runner is the best. It has the v8 which is reliable as hell and comes with great power. If need be you can tow other vechicles.It’s also not as big as a pickup truck. Yet it has a lot of room. There’s a variety of aftermarket parts and they can be modded for fairly low prices
190,000 isn't that much. My 350z has over 255,000 miles and my father's Sequoia has over 320,000 miles. I have owned my Z since 04 and still have never replaced the original factory clutch
I have 250,000 on my Disco 2 . Did Hells Revenge in comfort and drove from Phoenix to Moab in luxury. I have thought of selling but my family won’t let me
Fantastic video. I can't believe you took the defender down butt scratcher and frame bender. Thanks for showing me my FJ in stock form will easily do Moab.
I like you guys and support your efforts especially with the whole Ford thing. I get you guys have to work with what you have available, but the 2 door Wrangler was truly built for off-roading (with limitations elsewhere) and would likely win an undisputed off-road test. The Bronco may give it a challenge tho. Still, that was fun to watch and looking forward to the trucks since a gladiator is on my list of potential new trail vehicles. Good to see fins & things too... it’s scenic and an easy place to test vehicles.
Nice video guys, always entertaining and informative. The air system makes the Defender very capable. The problem is when it fails. I was looking at buying a used LR3 and when I looked up known issues the number one complaint is with the air system. I think the best is the FJ Cruiser because the average person can afford one. I did a quick check around Portland Oregon and found several for sale under $20k. If you bought one and installed some mods the money spent would be less than 1/2 the cost of the Defender and the 4Runner with its mods.
There are people with LR3s that have had zero issues with the air suspension- not every one fails. Some have gone above 250,000 miles- you just need to find one that has been taken care of properly. The FJ Cruiser may be a better value for money truck but then it likely will get poor fuel economy and also may not be as comfortable (if you are willing to sacrifice for more "reliability", and less annoying electronics).
Great editing guys! I would like to see some more challenging hill climbs. But all in all amazing video. The defender did great! I’d take the 4runner all day!!👍🏽
They only showed its best. The 4Runner is a much better vehicle and more capable. They didn’t show the weaknesses of the defenders suspension in off camber sections and its inability to flex
@@lukestoyz I do think this shootout (while fun) is faulty because they didn't do anything that any of the vehicles couldn't do. Doesn't give you much basis for declaring a winner. The impressiveness of the Defender isn't that it's the absolute best offroader, but that it's a really good offroader yet also a great passenger vehicle. My beefs with this built 4Runner are: 1) It's a capable vehicle to start with but if you are going to do $35K of mods to an offroader why start with something with so much rear overhang? 2) When you put as much into mods as a vehicle cost in the first place, it better be a keeper because you won't get back the money you spent on the mods when you sell. Vs. starting closer to where you want to end up, like a Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited, would end up a comparable price but have more resale.
@@ItzYaBoiTheBoi Hey it's public land so everybody gets to use it but glad to know it wasn't as busy as it looked ;) Hope you and your group had an awesome time! I hope to make the drive out there sometime in the future
Admit it guys this was a thinly-veiled excuse for a vacation to Moab. And the title should read "Undisputed 4x4 Champ of What We Got In the Parking Lot" Did I miss the parameters of the test? Please let us know when you run that Defender up the RTI ramp LOL
I think the FJ cruiser will win but that's mainly because of the V6 engine reliability and the short wheel base. I really love the jeep gladiator Rubicon that's been modified by you guys, plus the solid axle front and rear make it super practical.
Love the longer format off roading, great work TFL
On the decents all vehicles had to rely on crawl control and foot brake, our tree surgeons Unimog 406 with its cascade gearbox would just crawl down on engine breaking alone, traction permitting, was still impressed with the Defender though, getting a bit closer to ordering a Defender 90 Commercial if reliability issues don't increase.
@@clooperman3745 media has overblown the reliability issues in my opinion. The TFL guys were v unlucky with theres well particularly the first one. I know a few people that have bought new Defenders and theyve not had any issues
Great video, thank you! The F J does not get the respect it deserves being seven years old and all stock. Phenomenal.
Mine has 148,000 miles and the only repairs have been an alternator and strut. Let’s see how the Defender does long term.
@@MCYCCFL Someone in Toyota is reading that and saying "two repairs in only 148k - is that lemon law for us?". The Defender won fair and square but I do wonder how many times it could do it before its on a tow truck. The Toyotas could do this until the oil runs dry.
@@siraff4461 or after 10 years and the frame is rusted away to oblivion. While the Toyota’s and Defender are in the junk yard rusting away I will be driving my Jeep till the end of time. Jeep’s are the reason FJs are no longer for sale and Jeep sells twice as many as the 4Runner for a reason!
@@davewilson8308 I'm sure you can drive Jeeps forever but its like Triggers broom by the time its 18 months old so it hardly counts.
@@siraff4461 what are you talking about? Please make sense when you write a sentence idiot!
A more accurate name for this video would be “Approach and Departure Angle Shootout”. No tracks with rocks, ruts, mud or sand. No articulation was needed, I would be interested in seeing how these vehicles do in low traction situations, specifically mud. I’m sure all the electronic features are cool, but every time the drivers aren’t confident they put it in crawl control and lock the diffs, which i think would be better used as a last resort if the trucks struggle and start burning rubber, let us see how the vehicles behave naturally. I get it, you have lots of $$ in these trucks, but it’s kind of like “Hey let’s do an off-road shootout and put the trucks through hell, but let’s avoid any obstacle that could do any damage to the trucks.”
Yeah, I have a 4Runner with crawl control, listening to it work is almost painful, LOL. Definitely a last-resort option, I rather just drive and use my right foot to control my speed.
I've seen other videos of this trail, one recently where even a built Tacoma and 4Runner were having some traction issues trying to get up some of these hills. I know these obstacles that they showcase here look dramatic on screen, but I think there are more difficult obstacles here that would show-off articulation more. I mean even going down the butt scratcher, the Rover managed to lift a wheel.
That is exactly what I was thinking, the defender has great angles, but it would SUCK every where else, even at 25:30 it was lifting a wheel, no articulation at all, but that's to be expected from a unibody, no solid axle axle Cross over
Couldn’t agree more👏🏼
Completely agree. Just the other day I was stuck in some deep mud and it was flat ground. We need some different terrain scenarios to really test these vehicles.
@@dallasmellsop5488 exactly. Everyone wants so bad for this new Defender to be amazing off-road, and it may be in some aspects, LR,s traction control is the reason they stopped using lockable diffs years ago on the Discovery’s after all. But you said it here, this vehicle is a crossover, a hell of a nice car excluding the reliability issues, but not an off-roader. No serious off reader / over lander is going to buy this car, it will stay on highways and mall trips and close to the dealer. If this were called the Disco nobody would care. But you call it a Defender, brand it as a serious off-roader then come out with this? Come on man!
FJ Cruiser - "Only vehicle here that is gaining value as I drive it." Too True
Not in my book but than i guess there is enough dumb people.
Over here in the Brexshitland (UK) we have "real" Defenders now 5-years old costing more than the new JLR Defender..
Also the only affordable one, everything else there is $70k+ as shown. Also another reason it would have been cool to have a ZR2 on the truck side.
No it wasn’t. A lower mileage FJ would have more value. He’s conflating time with use. If it has 1500 miles on it in prestige condition, then it would be worth twice what it is.
@@zelenizub2036 STFU
Tommy’s face when Roman said the Defender was the best on paper😂😂priceless
But if you look at the numbers it was 91 the gladiator was 94. So WTF
@@saliston it was a combination of both stats on the top and bottom
He is a good actor because he did the numbers in another video.
The Defender's departure angle is insane.
That thing definitely blew me away.
Now let's see them all go UP the obstacles!
The Defender’s reliability is also insane. 1 of every 3 might even reach 100,000 miles
@@austinballard2 Not necessarily. I am sure it can hit 300k miles with proper care.
Defender just makes everything look so damn easy compared to the others. AND it’s stock AND it hasn’t even got the optional rear locker and serious off-road tyres AND it’s the only one that is actually nice to drive on road. It might not be as tough looking as the others but for what it’s designed to do it deserves respect.
To bad it breaks all the time
@@rustypliers74 it doesn’t I know a few owners who’ve had 0 issues
@@bumbaclat932 Funny they said this was their 3rd Defender. Not so good eh?
@@bumbaclat932😊😊😊 I don’t have a friend who owns it but I have heard people who have left them for otter cars.
The FJ is 7 years old, stock, reliable, and relatively cheap...and it really has very little trouble hanging with all the rest. Not only do many FJ's appreciate in value...but they're also just getting started with 100-150K miles on the odometer.
I love fjs, I wish they still made them, but Toyota chose to compete directly with the wrangler, and a four door wrangler (the first gen jk with the shitty minivan motor) beat it in space, power, fuel efficiency, it had a truly removable top and a proper rear set of doors instead of an extended cab type of setup, solid front axle that’ll smash ifs off-road and for bigger tires and so on... it really needed an update or something to compete, they tried to edge their way into a niche with a more capable vehicle
The FJ is a god vehicle but is overpriced to an insane level to make it not worth the buy unless you are specifically a Toyota guy
@@chanceym6000 True...but remember many bought their FJ's back BEFORE the price insanity started. Bought 2007 when it came off a 3-year lease with 32K miles for $23K 10 years ago...it now has 243K miles on it after 10 years...and still runs great and has saved us many times in tough New Hampshire Winters.
Is 220k too much mileage for a fj cruiser?
@@Timtimzi Assuming you mean to purchase that of course would depend on the cost and what shape it's in. I regularly drive around in a 2007 FJ with about 235K miles on it...and it drives great.
"am I gonna take the back end off?"
"well there's nothing we can do now so if you do you do" lmao
Tommy dropping bombs. “I didn’t realize it was a competition about who can take the most people to school, and I am looking around and don’t see any tow trucks around here.” Funny.
Like a B2
And I give him credit for agreeing that the the defender won . Funny but honest.
The Defender seems to be unstoppable. Between you’re videos and a few others showcasing a stock Defender’s off road capabilities, its mind blowing. Highly considering purchasing a base model with steel 18” wheels, the Explorer Pack, ladder, front skid plate, bright side tubes (sliders), recovery hooks, and the Warn Winch.
I have one and very capable. Just a few things I would change on your build. Skip the explore pack, waste of money. Buy the parts you want on the secondary market. Most of us are 50/50 on the lunch box. I don't like it. The ladder is cool but it limits what rack you go with on the roof. Skip the LR rails and get real rock sliders from lucky 8. Grab the standard tire and change it out with something better for offroad.
@@peopleschamp7258 do you have a video of your setup?
@@nathankitts1903 I do not. Jump on the land rover forum and you will see many of your thoughts been kicked around by owners.
@@peopleschamp7258 a year too late but what Engine do you have on yours?
@@lukarancini1630 I have the P300 so the 4-cylinder turbo. I chose it because the axel gear ratio is different than the larger engine. The p300 engine and hear ratio setup is more time for towing and off-roading
So glad to see the stock FJ showing that all electronic nanny and super expensive mods are useless. The FJ costs HALF of the other two and did exactly the same thing
Well because it’s just a test of approach and departure nothing else.
I love Moab content, but would like to see a trail other than Fins and Things. The slick rock is so sticky you aren't testing how good the 4x4 system is, the only thing really being tested is approach/break over/departure angle and maybe a little bit of articulation. Poison spider would be a good test without being too crazy. Just my opinion...
I wonder if they use fins because it's relatively short and has those steep descenst that make for more dramatic footage.
I ran fins once, I was in Moab mountainbiking and decided to rent a Jeep one day. Did it alone with no spotter, had the trail all to myself, in a 2 inch lifted 2-door Rubicon with stock tires. It was cake, didn't rub anywhere at all, and everything was relatively easy for someone who hadn't been off roading in about 15 years. Would 100% run it in my stock 4Runner.
I agree about seeing different variety in Moab, but I do enjoy watching them run this trail because since I've done it myself, I recognize these obstacles. I think they probably have to run a fine line between something challenging enough to look good, but not so crazy that they're going to damage vehicles that aren't theirs. I know there's so much crazier stuff in Moab, but I've also seen other TH-camrs run the types of trails that I would do in my Volvo XC70 LOL. I remember the morning I rented the Rubicon, I started off doing chicken corners, and there was an Outback in front of me, haha.
@@trailrunnah8886 I believe the 4Runner is the only one out of these six that isn’t theirs. Not certain about the defender.
@@trailrunnah8886 I understand liking to see a trail you have done in the past, but they have quite a few videos on Fins now. hells revenge would be a better option. You are even closer to town, you can turn around any time, there are so many different lines you can take to make easier or more difficult, but they have done that trail a lot too. With as many awesome trails around moab, it would just be nice to see thing mixed up every once in a while. Just for the record, I'm not hating, just some constructive criticism.
Exactly right. When an unlocked rig doesn’t squeal a tire with the suspension articulation of a shifter cart, then all you did was mall crawl it.
.
Spoiler, the trucks will scrape more so the defender will win because the 4R’s d ring touched a couple times.
@@truaxoffroad good idea! I think they've run Hell's before, but I think it was on press event and not necessarily with vehicles they were testing on their own. I might trip I wanted to run Hells too, the guys at the rental place recommended Fins first, and if I enjoyed that to hit Hell's. Unfortunately I did some sightseeing earlier in the day so I was running out of daylight and didn't get a chance to hit Hell's.
I really like this type of vid, especially on a Saturday morning. Thirty mins of fun! Well done, lads.
I was impressed by all 3 vehicles! Great Job guys. I do own the 2020 Defender and seriously it’s the best all around vehicle I’ve ever owned. I’m 65 and I’ve owned many , this is one special vehicle on and off the road . And I’m typing this reply without hair Gel !! All in good fun I know. Cheers
Love mine as well and despite the histrionics absolutely no issues and I’ve driven it across the US already.
@@Douganchesner Awesome, I’ve put just over 5,000 miles on mine. Safe travels my friend!
It is amazing, so happy with mine
We need a Power Wagon and a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon in this shootout as well!
Those are the same vehicle wearing different shells
Both are as good as Tow trucks that bring them in and out
@@DocHolliday3841 no they are not lol. Thanks for making my day with that joke.
Or a nissan x-terra
@@instamodeltv6020 I wish they still made those. I personally own a Nissan Frontier Pro-4x...pretty close to the Xterra!
Fantastic Saturday morning content! TFL does a terrific job with this logistical challenge. From the vehicle choices, presenters, camera support team to the editing. Well done everyone! Thanks for all the top notch efforts. Had to have been fun as well. :) I will take the stock FJ for the win because it won't give me pause if I scraped it.
I'm bear grylls... hahaha I'm dying man that was hilarious
That got me too haha
To be honest, the Defender surprised me with how capable it is.
Land Rovers are very capable vehicles. Just not reliable
@@JimBob-vb8oz exactly
Agreed
Equally surprised it didn’t explode.
It's the short build, with very small front and back. Not to mention the air bags to give it lift.
Thank you for the honest trial on different platforms. I have been watching your videios for the last two years and yes I got a 4Runner for my new work location in Yellowknife. I have been here for a week now and it seems that this suv is very popular. Thanks agains for your honest reviews it helped me to select my SUV. Keep up the good work. Greetings from the North.
I'll take the FJ with a 2" lift on 33s... the Defender can go fly a kite...
Good taste ;)
That’s how I have my FJ.
Said by someone who’d probably prefer a modified Hot hatch over an Aston...
@@theshadypilot I'd prefer non of those... Sports cars are for those in a mid-life crisis and women. I am neither... I'll stick to trucks; specifically Toyota trucks.
@@facefactss My 2008 TT is setup like that as well + full back seat delete (Goosegear).
You guys are at your best “in the field”. More like this por favor.
I feel like this should be titled “overlander’s off road challenge”... Call Nathan when you make a video with a wrangler, power wagon, and land cruiser
Power Wagon and Land Cruiser or less off-road worthy than these vehicles
Does Nathan not work with them anymore?
@@confettihunterminus1 I'm starting to think so, but damn do I miss him! He brought something special to this show.
@@confettihunterminus1 he was in the photo of their million sub reward... he’s one of my favorites tho!
@@chanceym6000 100% wrong, at rock crawling the PW and 2 door Wrangler would dominate these vehicles...
The fact that the Defender is really a compromise between a practical luxury family car and an off reader yet it not only keeps up with but can beat dedicated modified 4x4s is just insane. Almost makes it seem cheap for 2 cars in one
So many spout nonsense and miss this point. This car is epic
Until it breaks!
And break it will!
The only trade off is the defender will leave you stranded on your first expedition
It’s always hard when filming to show how steep the inclines truly are, and you guys did a great job showing just that!
That defender is crazy considering it didn't have a rear locker and really the not the best tires. The x-model must be insane.
They didn't do anything "hard".. going down a bunch of ledges just shows approach and departure angles. I dont think any of the vehicles lost traction once! Not much of a test if you ask me...
Yup really capable here but i think it would fun to watch it with undulations and low traction conditions. Places where its full independent suspension will be put to test. Im sure itll still get the job done tho
@@krover01 Nothing hard? They're driving three of the most capable vehicle on market... just because they didn't lose traction that's not a good parse for difficulty... Some of this stuff was greater than 35+ degrees which is a HUGE angle... 45 degrees is half of 90 which is a perfectly vertical angle for reference. You're nuts if you think this stuff wasn't hard.
That just means the vehicles performed so well they made it look easy. Which in turn makes your ignorance a compliment.
it better be for that price tag tho
I really like the Defender since the first time i saw it and now i love it !
So, you only had to go thru 3 defenders to get a good one. Sounds like I’d go with it. Not.
The Defender really was impressive. It seemed to handle those obstacles very smoothly. Land Rover did a really good job tuning that thing. The two Toyotas were also very good.
Impressive how? This was very light off roading
TFL- THE BEST ENTERTAINMENT ALL AROUND. I love the chemistry of all 3 of them. Just an amazing channel if you are into any type of vehicle related content
Love from Pakistan.
You guys already know what a huge difference tires make. For much more meaningful vehicle off road performance comparisons, USE THE SAME BRAND and MODEL TIRES ON THE VEHICLES !
Who else would love to see a “WHERE ARE THEY NOW” video on some of the vehicles they have sold in the past???🙏🙏🙏
I’m sure the defender will win in general, stock for stock. Even with that said.. the reliability disqualifies it on most people lists in America
Reliability and price point takes it off my list of things. I don't like to hate on brands based on reliability rumors but Land Rover has probably the worst reputation or at least the same level as Mini.
@@private6549 I try not to be that guy that spreads rumors.. with that said.. it’s a fact. 😆
Yeah, I read an article the other day, even a high up exec at Jaguar Land Rover says that they probably lose about 100k sales a year due to their reputation for being unreliable.
@@trailrunnah8886 100000 sales.. man., that’s a lot. I hope ur meaning $100000 in sales
@@AverageReviewsYT no, they meant 100,000 units. $100,000 in sales is only like 1.5 cars, lol.
Loved it! Defender really laying down some cards.
That Defender is unbelievable making that hard tasks in total luxury looking like it is easy! What a machine!
There's nothing unbelievable of what happened in this video
You haven't seen its repair bills.
That sound in all Toyota's crawl control drives me crazy!!
It is annoying. But I have only used my crawl once. Lol. Just to use it.
@@stout_tossme7541 👍
It's just purring
Defender is a true master! Ooof!
3000 miles with no issues, Roman, you have won the Land Rover lottery 👏👏
Probably because the engine and transmission needed to be rebuilt at 1500 miles. 😆
@@scottnewsham2496 Still got my engine and transmission with no problems at 170k miles in my land rover, and I understand the newer transmissions are even better! not sure about the engines though
@@chanceym6000 well you won the land rover lottery.
@@scottnewsham2496 Not true, talk to any rover owner... especially the discovery
Man, I so enjoy these lighthearted videos and the participants! @3:16, the oldest vehicle looks the sharpest, but I'm biased. A big Like!!!!
Good idea to bring two Toyotas with to tow the Defender home.
they'de blow their head gaskets lol
@@DanBCooper would that be before or after they bend the frames?
@@DanBCooper the 4 Runner tows 5000 pounds tho
@@jonlosito2004 and even not towing gets worse fuel mileage than my power wagon on 35’s lol…. honestly it’s impressive how crappy Toyota’s little baby V6’s get such terrible mileage, defies logic.
I like how the FJ did the same obstacles as the Defender and the built up 4Runner - at half the price of either on truly terrible tires as well.
Throw a modestly priced lift of the FJ with some decent tires and there would be no contest.
FJ for the win
Invest money into any of these vehicles and it will significantly outperform the rest, your argument is invalid.
@@Spankymf The Gladiator has 20k in mods. You can still find FJ's at a quarter the price of the Defender. Your critical thinking skills are invalid.
@@bodyoftruth7766 So let's look around dealerships for the cheapest FJ you can find so you can use the price as a leverage point as to why an FJ with money invested into it is better than other offroad vehicles that are stock. Once again, your argument is invalid.
@@Spankymf There are 10 for sale in my are that are under 20k, which IS a quarter of the cost of the Defender AND the heavily modified Gladiator. I also like how you ignored the modifications to the Jeep. Once again, you critical thinking skills have failed you. Try again, mate.
This had so much potential, but if felt like a glorified departure angle test. You guys need to put the cars in better scenarios.
Moab will do that
wish the ZR2 was there
This.
why? so the toyota’s could still win? lol
I think the reason why u want a Colorado ZR2 is because of yr profile name….
I traded a 2020 rubicon unlimited for a 2020 defender and I must say the defender is not joke . Even has higher ground clearance then the jeep .I thought the lack of sway bar disconnect would be the difference maker but the defender has independent suspension, sway disconnect not needed .
I wouldn’t say the FJ really struggled at all. It did pretty dang good. It barely touched in a few places. Compared to a super tricked out 4 runner and a $80k defender it kept up great. I love those things.
And you can't modify a Defender to improve it's offroad ability. Meanwhile that FJ still has a lot of improvement and aftermarket support to make it a beast..
@@boganbob2708 definitely lots of mod options. They’re great right out of the box too.
FJ with right tires and Bilstein 8112/6112 and you have long lasting fun that can do a daily drive or off road on weekends.
This is the best off-road defender video I’ve see.
I think it’s amazing how a stock vehicle that can happily drive around town can just go out and do Moab
That route is a bit of all the same. You need some mud, wet grass and deep water.
Exactly what I said it all just favors air suspension. But when the going gets uneven is when the lack of articulation shows
That terrain management would shine in slick conditions. The biggest issue will always be articulation which will be seen in various settings.
Ok, great video! I see the point of what you're doing. I personally would ALSO enjoy seeing how the vehicles articulate through ravines amd off camber rock crawling. You know getting the vehicle where 2 tires are off, seeing how they do in the sand. Not just approach amd departures.
Yeah, something where they need to flex would be nice.
HEY TFL! Defender would perform even better if you lower it onto a rock and use the “Extended” suspension mode. But don't use the “hyper extended” mode, as there’s no cushioning left. Also, remove the front plastic cover that exposes the front recovery eye as this increases the approach angle. (And then it’s ready to be towed home when it breaks ;) Just joking, it’s not as bad as its reputation)
SUVs are definitely better for off-roading than pickups due to their shorter overhangs and wheelbases and since the Defender was the best of these SUVs, it's the best of the whole group as well.
Problem is the defender isn't actually a SUV, technically it's just a cuv (crossover). It's a shame they only tested the aproach and departure angles in this video, no real challenges like rock crawling or mud pits.
That's where the defender would fail, it's unibody, no live axles at all, stiff air suspension, it's got no articulation at all (it somehow lifts a wheel at 25:30)
i would say no because when you are in the middle of nowhere you would rather have something thats not gonna break down
Tommy complaining about the defender while driving a hoped up 4Runner is just funny. Here’s a 4Runner completely decked out but I’m going to knock a stock vehicle that can do all that the 4Runner can. Comprehensive journalism
Loved the video but it's mostly Approach and Departure angle. Would
love to see some more challenging situations.
@TFLoffroad I’m confused how the defender takes the cake in your ORI for payload….anything without a bed should essentially max at a 3 or something.
The axle rating (I’m guessing is the source for the score) might say 1,000+ pounds, but please explain to me how you load that actual weight limit in the rear portion of the vehicle.
Keep in mind, towing is its own category, and roof racks tend to have similar dynamic weight limits. Never mind this payload being anything but gear-1000 pounds of dirt, wood, or construction equipment…forget about it!
The TRX comes along and suddenly they completely forget the Power wagon....
Sad
Rebel was forgotten as well because the TRX is "the better half ton off-road truck."
@@private6549 Depends on definition of 'better'. I've never been a huge fan of the Raptor because it's just a go-fast-in-the-desert truck. The TRX is that turned up to 11. Neither is much of a crawler. I'd expect the PW to do better there.
Man, lots of respect for that defender. I'd probably still pick the 4runner for reliability but gotta give props when due, defender did a great job.
Only in America does the Defender look small
LOL..you are probably right!
I compare it to my suburban xD
I saw one in person for the first time the other day. I thought it was pretty massive. It was a lot bigger than I thought they were.
This is the best videos you have to be honest. You really have great input about offloading, keep up the good work here!!
Power wagon not invited?
Power wagon competes with the f250 tremor and the gladiator is a good representation with solid axels with disconectable sway bars and lockers front and rear just like the ram.
Power wagon is climbing Mt. Everest cuz Power wagon don't care
Nothing was invited. The Wrangler 2 door would have easily done the best, and they picked desert running trucks that have horrible clearance. A rav4 would have done all this.
@@KTMcaptain They picked vehicles they have access to.
@@stephenj4937 “The undisputed 4x4 champ,” brings the wranglers gangly goofy cousin. Tfl moment
When you think that the defender can do that in what can only be described as a city tractor , it is quite remarkable. If it’s specified with the right kit it can look like the others ie with the arch kits, snorkel, ladder and rack kit so well done Land Rover for making a car that can attract the masses 👏👏
Forgot the ZR2 somehow...
Yeah unfortunately they don't have a ZR2 in the fleet but the Gladiator is representing the mid-size trucks and pretty well as well.
The wheels on that 4Runner are sweet!
Great video! These big comparison videos are among my favorite types of videos from you guys. Great editing and cinematography in this one as well, especially the opening shots. Looks very polished!
Very impressed with the Defender, it's really growing on me. Have to say the jury is still out on long-term dependability though, of course.
FJ's shipped with LOW springs up front (you can see the rake), presumably to improve MPG somehow. After some miles, those front springs sag so low that the FJ is riding on its bumpstops and has a really harsh ride on or off-road. Slap a mild Toytec lift on it to fix this shortcoming, disconnect the swaybars, and you have yourself a winner for offroad as well as on. Mine is a magic carpet compared with when I bought it all-stock.
Has Tommy looked under a defender. It has massive steel under trays. The underbody is protected.
Personally I think a 2005 v8 4Runner is the best. It has the v8 which is reliable as hell and comes with great power. If need be you can tow other vechicles.It’s also not as big as a pickup truck. Yet it has a lot of room. There’s a variety of aftermarket parts and they can be modded for fairly low prices
You really on hear that bad things about Land Rover reliability. I have an LR4 with 190,000 miles and it’s been a dream to own.
190,000 isn't that much. My 350z has over 255,000 miles and my father's Sequoia has over 320,000 miles. I have owned my Z since 04 and still have never replaced the original factory clutch
I have 250,000 on my Disco 2 . Did Hells Revenge in comfort and drove from Phoenix to Moab in luxury. I have thought of selling but my family won’t let me
Fantastic video. I can't believe you took the defender down butt scratcher and frame bender. Thanks for showing me my FJ in stock form will easily do Moab.
I like you guys and support your efforts especially with the whole Ford thing. I get you guys have to work with what you have available, but the 2 door Wrangler was truly built for off-roading (with limitations elsewhere) and would likely win an undisputed off-road test. The Bronco may give it a challenge tho. Still, that was fun to watch and looking forward to the trucks since a gladiator is on my list of potential new trail vehicles. Good to see fins & things too... it’s scenic and an easy place to test vehicles.
I think those slopes where intended to go upstairs!!😉
As a field of mine says "downhills goes even the rocks"...😁😄😄😄
Glad the Defender won, was and always will be the best4x4xfar
Nice video guys, always entertaining and informative. The air system makes the Defender very capable. The problem is when it fails. I was looking at buying a used LR3 and when I looked up known issues the number one complaint is with the air system. I think the best is the FJ Cruiser because the average person can afford one. I did a quick check around Portland Oregon and found several for sale under $20k. If you bought one and installed some mods the money spent would be less than 1/2 the cost of the Defender and the 4Runner with its mods.
There are people with LR3s that have had zero issues with the air suspension- not every one fails. Some have gone above 250,000 miles- you just need to find one that has been taken care of properly. The FJ Cruiser may be a better value for money truck but then it likely will get poor fuel economy and also may not be as comfortable (if you are willing to sacrifice for more "reliability", and less annoying electronics).
Defender 90 in V8 😍
Defender defending the legacy of land rover 😍
Defender killed it. I’m really impressed with the FJCruiser though. Just a 2” lift and better tires will do the trick from what I saw.
Great video as usual! Was really surprised with the Defender but the 4Runner is just so good with the reliability.
I respect the Defender! But I’ll always keep my FJ
Driven both. They are both amazing!
3 trucks and 3 cars. Nice. You guys really know your stuff.
Great editing guys! I would like to see some more challenging hill climbs. But all in all amazing video. The defender did great! I’d take the 4runner all day!!👍🏽
Just bought a 4Runner TRD Pro and love it, but boy is the Defender impressive!
The Land Rover is quite a conundrum.
So much capability, but such a piece of shit.
They only showed its best. The 4Runner is a much better vehicle and more capable. They didn’t show the weaknesses of the defenders suspension in off camber sections and its inability to flex
@@lukestoyz I do think this shootout (while fun) is faulty because they didn't do anything that any of the vehicles couldn't do. Doesn't give you much basis for declaring a winner.
The impressiveness of the Defender isn't that it's the absolute best offroader, but that it's a really good offroader yet also a great passenger vehicle.
My beefs with this built 4Runner are:
1) It's a capable vehicle to start with but if you are going to do $35K of mods to an offroader why start with something with so much rear overhang?
2) When you put as much into mods as a vehicle cost in the first place, it better be a keeper because you won't get back the money you spent on the mods when you sell. Vs. starting closer to where you want to end up, like a Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited, would end up a comparable price but have more resale.
All I could notice is on the wide shots the sheer amount of cars out there, it looked like a line at Disneyland
@@ItzYaBoiTheBoi Hey it's public land so everybody gets to use it but glad to know it wasn't as busy as it looked ;) Hope you and your group had an awesome time! I hope to make the drive out there sometime in the future
@@ItzYaBoiTheBoi nice, I'll keep an eye out for it
@@ItzYaBoiTheBoi subscribed!
Awesome video guys...need more of these field tests!!
Tommy just called the Rover a Kia! Gosh I love that kid!
That's an insult to KIA in some respects
@@Harry-hyl lol Right?!
Man, Landrovers are amazing vehicles. That is not fair.
The defender looks at home in the mechanic shop 😂😂😂
Great video guys. All 3 did great. Would be cool to see how an stock Forerunner would have performed
Great video guys! Always love the Moab content. Can't wait for part 2!
defender seems to be the best
Great video guys, looks like a ton of fun!! Can’t wait for part 2!
Admit it guys this was a thinly-veiled excuse for a vacation to Moab. And the title should read "Undisputed 4x4 Champ of What We Got In the Parking Lot" Did I miss the parameters of the test? Please let us know when you run that Defender up the RTI ramp LOL
4Runner is most versatile & its reliability is amazing!! One of the very few that are still built in Japan
This isn't tough off roading, it's just ground clearance and angles, I'm kinda of disappointed
Have you don’t this trail before?
I agree. Haven't been to Moab, but I'm not really aiming to. There's a ton more interesting stuff to do in a jeep in co and nm
The new defender is excellent. We will see if it holds up close to a toyota. And see how good or bad it is.
Starting to really like that new Defender..
I think the FJ cruiser will win but that's mainly because of the V6 engine reliability and the short wheel base.
I really love the jeep gladiator Rubicon that's been modified by you guys, plus the solid axle front and rear make it super practical.
Heh, there can never be an undisputed 4x4 champ, because there are different disciplines, a rock crawler is not a desert runner is not a mud truck.
Should note that most people are also surprised at how capable the LRD is in twisties too
Loving the new defender more the more I learn about it.
As always, great content guys. Keep up with the good work!
defender owns it
How?
Awesome video - great work guys!!