God bless you Bishop! I may have never known "The Lamb Who takes away the sins of the world" if were not for Vatican II. Simply because I don't speak Latin. But since Vatican II, I now have the mysteries conveyed to me in my language, and now the Church has given me opportunity to participate and acknowledge these mysteries which otherwise I may have missed or have been ignorant due to the language barrier. I can not thank the Vatican II council enough! For the Lamb saved me!
Barry II The "Agnus Dei qui tollis ....." and all the other prayers of the Mass had a translation for the local vernacular on the opposite page in the Roman Missal. There was no possibility of being in the dark with the Missal that was pretty much the standard gift for young people making their first Holy Communion. We used to hear about Transubstantiation a lot in those days as well.
I can appreciate you sentiments and nostalgia. And when I have watched the Latin Mass there are lots of cool significances that I like. But the new mass saved me. It is absolutely valid. And it should not be attacked or approached with any sort of attitude of inferiority or suspicion. Contempt for the Church's judgments is a lack of faith in the Church. And to promote contempt for the Church's judgments is to promote heresy and to deny the Spirit of God which dwells within her. I trust her fully. As the spouse of Christ, she knows her beloved more than any other ever could. And as our mother, she takes us by the hand and leads us directly to Him.
@@barryii2411 You mind telling me if there is a Modern Millennial Traditionalists who are members of Latin Mass fanatic squad who will soon be Beatified?? The last time I check, i have here lists of Novus ORdo Millennial kids on their way to Sainthood and Beatification... These kids love computers, internet ,interacted with the modern western world and lived and Breathed Vatican 2 and yet found holiness and sanctity?? How is this possible, while I haven't seen a millennial kid Latin mass Fanatic traditionalists who will be beatified at the present moment... We have here... Blessed Chiara Badano , Blessed Sandra Sabattini , Blessed Carlos Acutis........
? the Bible was translated long ago & has been accessible to the masses for centuries (eg. King James version, New International Version, New KJV etc.)
The implementation of the Council was terrible. There were terrible liturgical abuses that stemmed from the experimentation of 1965-70 and from there through the 1980’s
I am a 75 year old Australian Catholic woman who was present at Mass on the very day the Priest turned to face the congregation. I loved it that as a whole community were were praying in English. I believe we were luckier in Australia that Vatican II was actually taught well and we loved the whole idea of being a more alive more responsible more educated and more 'legitimate' part of the Church. Why is it that a group of young lay members of the Church, specially in the USA, have taken up the cause against Vatican II in ways very rarely heard here?
Our secular political climate. It is secular conservatism that leaked into the US Catholic Church. Many of them relate Vatican II to Liberalism. It is not the best way to look at Church doctrine issues.
@@richardbond258 Yes, we're seeing progressives turn their back on scripture for the sake of modern fads like in Germany with female priests and lgbtmarriage and yet you claim it is the conservatives, the people that want to follow scripture, that are secular. I'm not sure you know what secularism is and I doubt you have any familiarity with scripture.
Not even finished but this is so good. Bishop Barron always gets attacked for being lukewarm but you can really tell in this video that he is passionate about Christ’s Church. Never stop defending truth, Bishop. 🙏🏻
Bishop Barron that was very relatable to an ordinary lay person, thank you. It seems like the faithful are still circling in the desert. We keep trying to create God over and over instead of following His lead. It’s clear the Holy Spirit makes a way for us to keep on track. Let us be humble and follow Our God.
I am immensely grateful to be a South African Catholic! We just don’t have this problem. There are a few people in the SSPX parish in Cape Town but the rest of us are happy with what we have. I have no problem with Latin mass but I am old enough to remember many, many people praying the rosary throughout mass because they couldn’t understand what was going on.
As a fellow South African and a convert. I have to endure so much cringe in the NO parish. It is sometimes too much to bear. I will love to visit the SSPX sometimes. Some of my best friends are SSPXers. And no, not the TH-cam drama kind. I am in the oldest church in South Africa. I cried a few Sundays ago when the priest gave a social justice sermon only. It was from the gospel. It was so... Blunt and so stupid. My parents who are also Catholic had to endure that as their first mass. I was crying... Praying that they would just keep to truth and forget the cringe. I know for a fact that at a FSSP or SSPX church, Our Lord is honoured in both the Word and Sacrifice. At least there would never be such emptiness. I'm also just a young person and I smile as I know where faithful young people are going. For now. I will endure the cringe. But whether here or when I will visit the SSPX, I will pray for the church and our pope.
The issue with novus ordo isnt that it's in a common tounge. The issue is the way it treats the eucharist. There is no reverence and it isnt treated as the flesh of christ. Thats why the majority of catholics here in america don't believe in the real presence.
@@martinloynaz5085 Reverent celebration of the Ordinary Form of the Mass (Novus Ordo) is actually the normative will of the Church - no getting around that.
@@angelicdoctor8016 you will have a hard time finding a reverent no mass. Not exactly hard to find a reverent tlm. The way the blessed sacrament is treated is a sacrilege. And just because it's the current will of the church doesn't mean its right. Its also the will of the church to praise pagan idols from the Amazon. That doesnt mean it's correct.
So, who dropped the ball then and who will be re reading and implementing Vatican II properly? Is this for the laity? Or the clergy? This division within the church is obviously a cry for clarity and unity. I would really like to know. The division is very painful.
I think each has their role to play. But I think the laity are really championing this issue in general, in a different way than clergy are, partly because we have the advantage of not being caught up in the complexities of the role of clergy. So I think we should be on the forefront of this. I think we are the only ones who really can be.
The Catholic Church at every level has very poor executions of V2. Its like the CEO and the heads of dept came out with the vision and objectives. Then there is no proper plan to roll out .
@@crystellesaleh4800 Problem i think is the Catholic Church is a hierarchical Church. Many laities simply wait for the clerfy to do something so we are in a catch 22 situation
Jeremiah Ong yes certainly. It’s a difficult situation. But it’s also a situation in which God is massively invested, so. I’d say the odds are on our side!
Thank you Bishop - so appreciated this! All the Taylor Marshall, Michael Voris, Patrick Coffin etc echo chamber was so disturbing to me - and reading all their followers hate on Pope Francis, yourself, Vatican 2 etc - felt like the farthest thing from Catholicism, laced with fear and dread, that I've ever experienced. I'm so grateful I didn't fall for their drum-beat - and through their errors, they are leading so many astray and away from the Catholic Church. I only wish they'd hear this talk, open their hearts, repent and come back to build up the church, not tear it down. God Bless You!!! Grateful for you!
Angelic Doctor yes - I too will pray for them & for unity/love. So grateful I found Bishop Barron & recently joined his Word On Fire Institute - allowing a wealth of resources to study/learn & not falling into a sense of being adrift. It’s like having a Spiritual Director in steroids. 😂🙏❤️
What I love about the Catholic Church; it’s so “human” and errs, yet so “divinely” guided, and survived this long while still maintains basic “doctrine”, but adapting to changing times to accommodate growing diversity of cultures nations etc. God bless the Church.
@@sinfulyetsaved doctrine develop for CLARITY and better understanding...not because the doctrine is rejected...The Trinity word is not even found in the bible...
@@sinfulyetsaved A protestant friend accused us of unbiblical doctrines the other day...she could not name the doctrines, though. She accused us of worshipping Mary, but she's never attended a mass. "Study to show yourself approved unto to God," dear brother, before you presume to teach us. Read the church fathers and early church history. Attend mass, then at least you'll have some knowledge before you speak. Don't be afraid to discover Catholics have Something you don't.
Thank you Bishop. I used to be a rad trad anti-II Vat, but now I see that is an untenable position for a Catholic. Also, some of the arguments that I hear from the opposite side are just borderline sedevacantist. It is hard to accept that I am not the shepherd but a sheep, and that I need to trust God's providence and his promises to the Church.
@@HosannaInExcelsis Vatican 2 is full of many doctrinal novelties. The pope and everyone at the council recognized that it was not infallible. I and most traditional Catholics don't think Vatican 2 is that bad. Its the way it was practiced. They wanted to create modern evangelization and make it easier for people to come to the faith but what they did was just water down the faith so that it would be easy to swallow. They compromised the faith and its dogma for the sake of increasing attendence numbers. Being a catholic has become a token in the modern world and it means nothing to most people. We should be extremist when it comes to christ. It is the only thing in life worth fighting for.
@@angelicdoctor8016 first I must ask you. How do you not see error in implementation. According to pew research 75% present of American Catholics below the age of about 50 don't belelive in the real presence in the eucharist. Vatican 2 got rid of the need for christ by making people believe that all religions held truth. Its no wonder beleivers in the West are disappearing. Also we arent saying its all caused by this one document rather this document is the manifestation of many terrible movements. The sex revolution, secularism, humanism, and others. I would first like to know. Do you really think Vatican 2 has been good for the faith?
I think that you are wonderful. I'm a catechumen and prefer Latin Mass. I also do watch all sorts of Catholics on youtube because that is how I learned about Catholicism during covid-19, so I've been exposed to all sorts of opinions. I would consider myself a traditional Catholic when I'm lucky enough to become one, and I think your answers to these questions were fantastic. I hope the Holy Spirit can heal hearts and fix this division. Thank you for spending time on this topic.
@@thyikmnnnn I love the history of it and converting from general protestant denominations it is the kind of Catholicism most converts crave: old, mysterious, super reverent. I love the chanting and incense. Also I want to kneel and receive on the tongue.
@@thyikmnnnn I think the english masses differ a lot depending on where you are. The Latin Mass has something called a missal that you follow along with so you can read what they are saying in both Latin and english. Also the scriptures and homily are also given in english. Once you go for a while you remember it and can follow it pretty easily because you repeat a lot of the prayers etc. Also you can learn to pray your rosary in latin through youtube.
The"implementation was wrong". I agree. And yet nothing is done. We continue to watch our Church become more and more Protestant. Priest and Bishops whose actions are not that of a true believer. Let's talk about this. Instead of bashing other good Catholics who want what's best.
Truth Hurts - I sure hope you're wrong about that. I'm in the process of leaving Protestantism because IT is "becoming more Protestant," if you get my meaning. They are adrift and becoming more like the World. That's not what I've seen in the Catholic Church so far: it's historically unyielding to popular whims and sentiments, and I LOVE that! May it forever stand strong in the Truth!
He’s not bashing good Catholics who want what’s best, he’s shedding light on the fact that good Catholics can’t challenge the validity of Vatican II per se. Imagine if instead of bickering over an issue which is already resolved and most certainly not ours to question (the validity of Vatican II as a council) all we “good Catholics” united in order to do the only thing that actually can be done: tackle the terrible implementation of the council and reestablish a sense of continuity with the pre-Vatican II world without “throwing the baby out with the bath water”. Instead of attempting to do what is good for the Church, “good Catholics” are getting drawn into a schismatic and disobedient rebellion against the Church, which surely will do as much damage to the Church as the terrible implementation of the council did.
This issue is a very serious and urgent one and needs to be addressed. Thank you Bishop Barron for this clear voice. Good people are unable to bear the shame of scandals in the family and want to distance themselves and clear themselves and feel righteous by raising voices of condemnation. May the Lord raise up prophets to cry and lament before His presence even while hanging their heads in shame for the issues within the family. When Shimei threw stones and cursed David, David endured patiently without reacting, saying, "It may be that the Lord will look on my distress and the Lord will repay me with good for this cursing of me today." 2 Sam 16:12. The shame and pain have to bring streams of healing grace to the Church rather than "righteous rebellion". Those of us who are discouraged must remember that prayer without patience and perseverance is not the prayer recommended by the Word of God.
"If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart!" - Nelson Mandela
I think the best way to solve these matters are for those on each side to take these matters to reflection in praying the Stations of the Cross as written by the Saints (St.Alphonsus Ligeuri, St.Francis of Assisi, St.Faustina, etc. And reflect and pray it on our knees with heads bowed and let the reflection show and reveal to each his or her own intentions Is this foolproof? Of course not, but we must crack our hardened hearts open and see them as Christ sees them, then we shall know the Truth, for ourselves and His Holy Church. We are divided due to pride, vanity and wrath, hang upon the Cross and let these be burned away in the Fire of Divine Love. We must die to ourselves if we want to know Christ. We must first admit we are fools before we can be granted the Divine Wisdom. What do you say?
Greetings Bishop Barron! I love your knowledge about our Catholic faith and the way you are able to explain it so clearly to us. I know we have problems in our church and we've had them since Jesus Christ walked this Earth. But God is faithful and He will be with us till the end of time! I pray for you Bishop Barron, I also pray for these extremists, that our Lord open their hearts and minds to the truth of our church and instead of dividing us help to maintain unity. Thank you so much for your videos! May God bless you, Pope Francis and our Catholic Church!
The church should be recognized by the love of it's members for each other. If we can live in that, I think God will be able to engender conversion in us and accomplish his purposes. If we can't live in a deep love for each other then lets seek conversion ... me included :) Let's not let Satin win on this one and spread the divisiveness that he so desperately wants. This is to important!
I have only been Catholic for 6 yrs. I have only recently (last few months) realized how very little I know. I don't want a Ukrainian orthodox mass or a Latin mass or an Eritrean mass. I'm still learning the faith I just fell in love with.
@@gracepetersen1442 I agree, but let me tell you: As someone who was baptized, confirmed, and given first communion in april 2021 at age 27, when I went to Latin Mass my faith was greatly strengthened. Learning another liturgy is not difficult, most latin masses will have missals avaliable. It is so much more reverent, beautiful, and glorious. You dont need to be a radtrad to go to Latin Mass.
Yes I am angered by the mis-characterization of Bishop Barron. I am so proud of him, how he does not stoop to their low level of discourse. I'm praying the provocations do not draw fire onto innocents.
Bishop Barron, your evangelization brought me into the Catholic Church 2 years ago and I am forever grateful. You have such a gift for communication through stories and with your biblical history knowledge. Thank you. I am struggling, however, to understand why desiring Catholic Traditionalism makes one an extremist. If vat 2 was so effective than more Catholics would believe the Eucharist to be the true presence. This is not about you, or me, but with the tradition of the church, as passed down from JC, it seems glaringly obvious that Vat II did not bring the mass to the world but the world to the mass. I’m learning to accept that it takes radical faith to live out this doctoring according to the Church’s and Saints teachings.
Agreed. I'm also a recent convert, thanks in no small part to Bishop Barron. I attend a Novus Ordo parish on Saturday evening, then drive for an hour on Sunday to attend the TLM. It isn't nostalgia which draws me back there every week. I've only been Catholic three months. When attending the traditional service, it doesn't strike me as being focused on the priest, but on God. So in that regard I respectfully disagree with Bishop Barron. The difference in the spirit of reverence between the two is almost palpable. I can't imagine Pope Emeritus Benedict would have explicitly sanctioned the traditional Mass if he thought it would lead to extremism. Wouldn't his ruling on the Latin Mass & its everlasting place within the Church have the weight of papal infallibility?
I would agree with you and add my voice here. I have been Catholic all my life since infant baptism, and Bishop Barron's Catholicism Series is what introduced me to his Word on Fire ministry roughly 8 years ago and I've always deeply appreciated what that ministry does and his enthusiasm for the faith. And Bishop Barron, I hope either you or one of your staff members reads this and responds, because it is such a critical issue we're dealing with and needs to be addressed adequately, not sidelined as a 'rad trad' problem. I remember watching a video Bishop Barron made some years ago where even he spoke of how Pope Benedict gave permission for the Latin Mass so that those who wish to experience it can, since most priests and bishops weren't allowing it to. I guess the question is why wouldn't they? Also, and the Bishop alluded to this again in this video, the problem is how it was implemented not the actual council itself. But why was it implemented that way by many bishops and priests? Why did the great intellectuals the Bishop refers to, and whom I also have great respect for, produce texts that are easy to misinterpret? Bishop Barron himself says in this video that he began his writing ministry by criticizing V2's implementation. The point of all these questions I'm raising is that this problem can't be brushed aside, the rot is bigger than the Bishop makes it sound. When I think of a famous priest running around proclaiming gender ideologies that are against church teaching and morals and hear some bishops, cardinals, priests and nuns support him, and very very few speaking out to correct him, we have a serious problem. We have a problem when a priest who speaks the simple truth of the faith and tells people they can't be true Catholics and vote for a platform that is against the faith in so many direct and big ways such as having extreme pro-choice stances, whilst there's an alternative that is so pro-life and pro-faith, and said priest is shut down by his bishop, we have a big problem. Bishop Barron, again, I admire your passion, teaching, and love for the Church. For the Eucharist. But please dialogue more with the so called 'extremists', don't brush them off. I agree with you by the way about V2, we shouldn't throw it out, it was absolutely needed. But more importantly, and I know you are aware of the problem with the rise in disbelief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. You said it in one of your earlier videos, that we lost a sense of the reverence for the Eucharist after V2. That is a big problem that's contributed to our situation today. People aren't being nostalgic, they want to be able to reverence Christ to the best that they can without being stopped. True enough, there are those who are extreme, who think the traditional latin Mass is the only valid one, but it's coming from a good place of realizing that the faith is under attack, from within than from without, and the source and summit is being ignored or given less and less importance, which is the real problem today: lukewarmness, not extremism. These 'extremists' are on our side as far as today's battle goes. Perhaps Bishop Barron you could clarify this in a video, that TLM and 'extremists' are not the same thing and there's nothing wrong and there's everything good in wanting to experience TLM as a way of gaining a deeper reverence for the body of Christ in the Eucharist. Personally I've never had the opportunity to experience TLM, and from what I see of those who have, it's a whole different experience and a lot more reverent. I can believe this, because when I started kneeling to receive the Eucharist at Mass, that simple act was overwhelming, and I had an idea of what I was missing all along. So, I wouldn't interpret this as nostalgia, but as a hunger for orthodoxy, for reverent worship, for Christ. Even here in Africa where I am, the church loses numbers and many are lukewarm and don't really believe in the Eucharist, we shouldn't assume that Africa is gaining just because it is true for some African countries. These are just some of my thoughts on the issue. Please don't be defensive of V2, but rather engage people more on this. I know the 'extremists' can be sharp tongued and I think at times unkind, but get past that and you'll see a real yearning for truth. I also appreciate them for being able to uncover many things wrong in our church, something the mainstream media both in the church and outside her do not do.
I cannot agree more. This trend of trying to destroy the institutional pillars doesn't only happen with the Church. Bishop Barron explains it very well. Once you begin, you can't stop. A dangerous path.
👏👏Bravo, Bishop, and thank you for saying this so clearly, boldly, and compassionately. May this be a turning point moment for the US Church when we can unite in the very spirit you propose and, together, move forward to live out the very real call for us in this moment in our Church and our world. Thank you for your ministry.
As I lie in bed with COVID pneumonia in a hospital icu without access to confession communion or sacrament of the sick without a priest in site due to GOVERNMENTAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL shutdown I felt I was living in an alternate reality. I hope Our Good Bishop is referring to that extremism
I feel with Fr. Barron's sincere arguments and holistic view of the crisis within the Church. It takes a tough heart to truly DEFEND THE CHURCH nowadays. It is either YOU STAND WITH THE CHURCH or DENY YOUR CHURCH. But it is the HOLY SPIRIT who guides the CHURCH and protects HER FROM the ENEMIES, seen and unseen. The Church must pray together and act together. This could be one possible solution that we can do as one People of God.
I am an Asian Catholic and have been greatly involved in my parish and a member of one of these communities brought about by the Second Vatican Council. Though we have been warned by the Lord about judging our brothers, but it is hard not to perceive the difficulties we have with some of our priests regarding Liturgy, the power struggles among themselves that sometimes affect the unsuspecting laity, the moral problems with some of them that are scandalous to the faithful who know their deeds, the seeming ignorance of the faithful regarding the basics of the Catholic faith, the tendencies to slide into making political homilies of some priests, the disobedience of some priests and laity on the bishop and the basic tenets of the faith and countless others. It can be that the Church may have been prepared by the Second Vatican Council to provide answers to the questions left opened by the Enlightenment, but it also opened floodgates of different sorts. For me the opening words of Pope John XXIII to let the windows of the Church be opened to the air of the world was captivating indeed, plus his words of opening the 2000-year old treasure of the Catholic Church and offer it to the world was something daring. But looking at it now through the experience of the Church after the Council, it is just messy and confusing.
As a seeker considering becoming a Catholic, I think you guys gotta calm down a little bit. I believe the Bishop used the wrong term, but I believe he's made a great point. He said "extremism," but what I think he really means is, "emotional attachment." Emotional attachment is one of the things that drove me away from progressive liberalism, because I came to the conclusion that the whole ideology was significantly based around that concept. Look towards many of the great leaders of America, and many of the poor leaders. On the point of the great leaders, George Washington, whom we associate most with patriotism, was, on the point of emotions, very cold, detached, calm, and patient. FDR, in the face of WWII and the evils of Adolf Hitler, though he committed some horrible acts (such as attempting to pack the court and putting Japanese people in camps), remained mostly steady. Even Ronald Reagan, who was known for his ability to communicate emotionally, was more focused on hope and reason than extreme passion. For our bad leaders, you can look to Richard Nixon screaming, "I AM NOT A CROOK," Barrack Obama's focus on the wants and desires of vulnerable people, LBJ using the goodwill of the Civil Rights movement (which was, imo, an amazing movement that evolved into something less desirable) to push for all sorts of regulations and controls, Herbert Hoover refusing to regulate even in the face of the Great Depression. What I'm trying to say is that emotional attachment to ideas, when relied on alone, causes significant problems. Moral attachment is much better.
Butt Quack . I think that you are absolutely right regarding the dangers of over-reliance on emotionalism in guiding faith and religious decisions. Bishop Barron has been very consistent on this point. Godspeed on your spiritual discernment.
Yes! re-read the texts of V2. For a church that is 2000+ years old 60 years is but a moment. Catholics , particularly in the west must re engage with the intellectual tradition of the church. Flights of emotion just leads to panicked arm waving and extremism. A reasoned process gives rise to solid foundations and a way forward.
Agreed! Many of us probably should have expected that the first few decades after a council would be tumultuous, like Nicaea, Chalcedon, and Trent. So we do need to "regain our footing" again after reorganizing our spiritual battle plan as the Church, so to speak. We regain our footing, always rooted in the past, holding the present, and looking into the future.
Yes and its interesting that commentators have said it takes at least 100 years to begin to integrate the work of any council. Fortunately, In Australia we didn't have the problems related to travesties in the celebration of the Mass (in an attempt to be relevant eg consecrating pizza and coca cola) sounds like the absolute worst of it.
@@charliej600 Yes Chris we do have problems in the Australian Church, I was referring to the liturgical abberations which I never saw here at anything like the same level.
Vatican II opened up the church to the common person. I didn't study Latin and had no understanding of the prayers said during mass. Now at least I hear the words. Why the church is not thriving in the western culture is a major concern for all believers. We know what people are missing out on-their life in the light and beauty of Christ. Lets keep praying for the fallen away Catholics.
Thank you for your insights, Bishop! I am deeply saddened by the growing hostility toward the Vatican II documents due to sheer misinterpretation and snobbishness. May the Holy Spirit enkindle in us the spirit of obedience and understanding!
Wouldn't the overriding issue in the church be lukewarmness? That seems to be the biggest issue the Catholic Church is facing right now. Not extremism. That's kind of a loaded term meant to shut down discussion.
No doubt that lukewarmness is by far the problem in the Church yet extremism gets all the attention. There’s no term for the lukewarm people but “radtrads” is used readily for the “extremists. Bishop Barron even used it in this presentation
@@EuropeanQoheleth I know both can be addressed, but both are not. I keep hearing this being addressed but not the lukewarm issue. I am not a traditionalist. I am newer to the whole idea of a traditionalist wing of the church. I have never been to the Latin Mass. But I saw the swipes that came out against those people at the beginning of the pandemic and I don't understand the vitriol against them, I find it curious and suspicious. There is a strong sentiment against them, but not against Catholics that are unfaithful to the church magisterium, spreading their particular brand of heresy in our Catholic schools, CCD classes, churches, social groups, etc. I have recently met some people who go to the Latin Mass and they are not heretics nor schematics. They are not SSPX. They are solid on catholic moral teaching and church authority and seem like they could be strong allies. Now I know that this video is addressing a particular group of people on youtube. But when everyday strong Catholics, like me, come across that stuff its a real turnoff because , yes, it is, in fact, a loaded term. Meant to instantly turn the reader think negatively of the opposing side. Maybe they deserve it, or maybe they don't but their isn't enough understanding on either side, but I know strong Catholics in society are regularly unfairly called extremists. So consider me, and I am sure plenty of others, disgusted by calling fellow strong Catholics extremists. The lukewarmness has been a bigger and much deeper more prevalent problem in the American Catholic Church and no one is addressing it. But wow are they addressing this. The churches shut down. The "shepherds" left their "sheep" in the field when the night came. We were struggling with lukewarmness to begin with and the bishops pretty much just ensured a drastic increase of this issue. Lukewarm, not properly catechized Catholics think that church on the T.V. is just as valid as Mass. I have young children who have to overcome the societal sickness , and now with a church that, from the outside looking in, seems to be apathetic to the idea of grace being the food for saved souls. I find it incredibly strange that the leadership is not not sounding the alarm on this. "The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.: John 10:12. Do we belong to them or they hired hands? Were scattered! And injured. I am deeply hurt by the church shutting us out There was not even an attempt at creative ways to continue feeding God's people. .The shut downs of churches are going to have massive consequences for ALL the faithful and this is devastatingly important. Churches are posting that if you don't feel safe there then you need to stay home. This is not appropriate for a faith community. Anyone who knows church history knows that contrary to any idea of what it is to be Catholic. Something is wrong! Something is off!
Just because one uses their tongue to express themselves for or against VII 'extremely' does not necessarily mean they aren't 'luke warm' - and it's very far from meaning they are 'on fire' too. That's the point! There's crazy self righteousness afoot! I wish I heard more people turn the critical eye on how they receive the Holy Eucharist 'in their heart'. As opposed to silly judgements about whether it's on the tongue or in the hand, one is better etc etc....It's always been the heart of the receiver, never the tongue or hands! You are introducing a faith 'judgement' into the talk here, a judgement only Christ Himself is qualified to make. As we stand up to move to receive, we should be more concerned that it's with a proper heart in my opinion. If extremists put as much time & passion into The Great Commission, and trusted the Holy Spirit to work all things for the good - then THAT would be the Spirit of Vatican II.
It seems that a big problem with the way the extremists on both ends of the spectrum when considering Vatican II is that they both wish that Vatican II supported their own ideologies when what would be a better approach would be to let Vatican II inform their ideologies. I pray that all of us open our hearts to God's grace and mercy. Seeing that God's mercy and grace are unlimited than it seems that He is offering us plenty of both.
Thanks so much Bishop Barron. May all diocese take up your suggestion to reflect and discuss Vatican II documents and ask the Holy Spirit to guide their interpretation and implementation
Thank you Bishop Barron for your explanation of the need for Vatican II. But what I have a problem with you said that you want to rid the priesthood of this cancer of the sex abuse. Why haven’t more priest like yourself spoken out about Fr. James Martin who is clearly going against church teaching with his homosexual agenda and standing for the truths of our faith and what God’s word says. Many priests are silent about this and therefore many people accept and think that this is the norm what he advocates. This is what I think bring much frustration to the laity.
@@tomthx5804 Thanks Tom. I have been praying that God would raise up courageous Bishops to speak out about this issue. If enough Bishops would come together to defend the teachings of the church I believe it would really make a difference.
'Why'? Well have a little think. Maybe most of the clergy, priests and bishops alike, are homosexual or someone has the dirt on them for some other proclivity. That would explain everything. Failing that, they're frightened of being unpopular, like when Peter denied Jesus.
I wouldn't know who Martin is except for the whiners who constantly invoke his name. Sometimes there is more value in being silent than engaging in senseless controversies, as Scripture warns us.
Thank you so much Dear Bishop Barron!!! You have helped me enormously to understand the correct position regarding Vatican 2!!!! God bless you your Excellency!!!
By virtue of our authority, we hereby declare, publish and teach that Bishop Barron as awesome and define his words in this video as an indespensible contribution to the deposit of faith. Given this day : 26th September in the year of the Virus.
Excellent video! I've been focusing a lot on Vatican II in my own videos lately as well. The proper interpretation of the Council is crucial. As Bishop Barron stated: the rad trads and rad libs both misrepresent and misinterpret the Council.
Thank you Bishop. The world was changing before Vatican II. God is in every stage of the Church. He presides at our disagreements too. We should concentrate on God and not too much on personalities. St Paul rebuked the Church about this danger. There are people with so much delusion, Bishop, that they will as you say "burn the house down with them in it". Try as they can they will NEVER burn God's House down. They will be burnt out by their own anger. God will prevail in the long run. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
The words "missionary council" are certainly new to me as they relate to Vatican II. I was born, raised and educated in the Catholic Schools in various states in the Mid-West. When the the changes to the Mass started in the early 1960's and beyond, I never heard this explanation of "missionary council". In a catholic men's college and later at a state college in the South with a close relationship to a Franciscan priest in the Newman Club, I never heard the words "missionary council". One change to the Mass, to prayers, to gutting old, beautiful prayers like the 23rd Psalm were made and no explanation was ever given by the priests. So, how does all of the Mass and prayer changes, the substitution of words for the original words, constitute a "missionary council"? What so many of us who were in our 20's in the 1960's felt was that the Church had written us off as valued members. Why was there such an exodus of Priest and Nuns from the church in that same time frame? As tempted as I was to leave for some other denomination, I've stuck with it in being a Catholic, but it has been hard, really hard especially when the sex scandals broke. But I'm still here.
@@tomthx5804 Vatbashers 'haven't made a single convert'. Of course you have no evidence whatsoever. And you can't argue because you can't prove a negative. And all it takes for your sandcastle to be washed away is the existence of one convert. Don't bet the farm.
I celebrate Vatican II. I lived through pre~Vatican II. Sitting through Latin Mass, asking what it means, the only words in English were the hymns. We didn't mind wearing a veil, kneeling at Communion, receiving the Host on the tongue. What changed from laity being left out of most of the discussions, very little public discourse, one way communication, little variation between cultural expression was More interactions. Onward Christians, forward, on on, time marches ever forward. We can now move on to living out the faith with conviction because of Vatican II and all that it produced in promoting understanding about the faith. Looking back at the back of our presider, the many words unspoken, prayed in silence, its time has passed.
I never went to a crazy irreverential Mass. After Vatican 2, they were the exception not the rule. We had the most beautiful, meaningful Masses at our daily Masses after Vatican 2. It's too bad the exceptions are touted as being the Norm. As a youth, I loved the Latin Mass, and I love the vernacular Mass even MORE. I LOVE THE ABILITY TO PARTICIPATE AS THE EARLY CHRISTIANS DID. I'm not against the Latin Mass, but it needn't be the norm. Both can exist in charity. Go to the Mass that inspires You. They all praise God. God looks in the heart.
I agree with you Bishop that people cannot reject the council and remain Catholics, but simply saying why you cannot reject it is far less powerful than why you should embrace it. Catholics, especially young Catholics are worried about the effects of the council, even if they are side effects. Reverence has decreased, liturgical abuses still exist, lack of belief in the Real Presence, Cardinals (such as Marx) calling into question established Catholic teaching. We do need to embrace Vatican 2, but at the same time restore a lot of the great practice and accept that it allowed for misinterpretation and contributed to the decline . We need reverent liturgy, both for the Ordinary and Extraordinary Form. We need heavy preaching on established orthodox teaching and liberal Catholics need to have the spotlight put on them so everyone can realise the lies they are spreading. Every effort should be made to unify with traditional groups, even the SSPX as our separated brothers and sisters. An uncomfortable truth in the church today is that many would not have such reverent liturgy if it wasn't for the restoration of the Latin Mass under Benedict and that wouldn't have happened without the SSPX.
My comment as a protestant is this: If the second vatican counsil is the problem for the decline of the RCC in the west...Why is it also something that we Christians outside the RCC also see in our traditions too. We don't have a second vatican to blame. In my veuw, the Second Vatican is an important "instrument" for the higher level of unity/closeness with the RCC we as Christians have today. And that is important here in the West because the "pressure" the secular culture put on the Christian Church. (Just some thought from me.)
I want to pray the same way my grandfather did, and hist grandfather before him, and countless Catholics including all the Popes. Today this is extreme.
@Bek Blaku I respect your view, since you sound like a faithful Catholic. Here in Germany there is LGBT flags in front of the Churches, in opposition to Pope's teachings. Yet I doubt that Bishop Barron would use the same argument here. I am afraid that people who create division are not traditionalists.
@@rrickarr They all used the best technology of the period they had. On the other hand if something works for 1000 years, it is likely it will also work for the next 1000 years. This is why the best things we have last very long.
That's true.. I was born in Vatican II era but my parent told me how difficult it is mess in latin... Especially there are a lot of people who hardly can't read back then... And because of that... While the priest held a mess, the parish spending time by praying rosary during Mess...
I think a lot would change if people would read the documents. But people do not like to read anymore. People don’t even want to read a full email. Many would rather watch a video and be told how to feel about Vatican II. In full disclosure, I haven’t read them either. Challenge accepted.
The average Catholic can start by reading the documents. I don’t understand what you mean. Are you saying what’s the point? I’m not trying to get combative just trying to understand. www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm
I would like to hear more about the implementation issues you mention Bishop Barron. I think you are right that folks can’t and should not treat the council as something they can cherry pick what they like and not like. But I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and something went wrong. Vocations down and I would say that most of the folks I grew up with have long fallen away (kids I went to Catholic school with for 12 years). Most of the nuns I had in grammar school left the convent. The sex scandal was a crusher also.
Nothing to do with Vatican II. But the Good Samaritan is a good story to read if we want to know, not how to "get back" but just how to get better. The Good Samaritan helped the traveler and gave him all he could without concern for who he was or why he was there. We are preoccupied with who deserves what in our culture. It's not love of neighbor that we ignore (though we do try) it's love of enemy. Find someone you you don't trust, who you don't like, who you may hate. And give them what you most want. That's where Jesus is waiting for us all.
I had six children who grew up in that time period and went to 12 years of Catholic school. My husband and I were and are practicing and involved Catholics. None of our children are practicing their faith now. I At that time the church was not reaching out to the young people......some within the church were giving misinformation which led to confusion among us all. Our music, the liturgy., the words...everything changed. I am a traditional, Baltimore Cathicism Catholic...that was where my faith was born and it hasn’t changed,but my children were affected by what was happening and left. Now...abortion is wrong....yet there are Bishops that say you should “examine your personal conscious and decide,” but I am not voting for Trump.....I am not sure of his opinion on abortion, but the message was clear about President Trump....from the information I receive about Catholics are split on this subject of abortion...it is only one issue ...on the other hand, it is the only issue..my question...where does the church stand?
@@beverlyyoung7820 The problem for Catholics is that the Republicans tend to support immoral policies as well. Capital punishment, less regulated gun control, worse social service policies. So the stance has become to not vote by single issue. As for abortion, we are allowed to vote for a politician who supports abortion so long as we aren't voting for them because they support abortion. Basically, any party you cast a vote for supports at least one position Catholics are called to oppose. So you have to examine your conscience. I personally try and stack good policies against bad policies. And there is also the issue of parties using topics just to get a vote with really no intention of making change. So a good example here is if you are for some gun control, the Democrats say they are as well but Obama actually lessened restrictions on access to guns more than Bush. They don't make it easy to feel good about your vote but that's the system we have right now. Hope that's some help. Be safe and go with God.
Great way of putting it, that "you don't burn the house down" Bishop. That's what Luther did & look at those results. Also, I think we should always bear in mind that one persons experience of life in the Church, depending on various things like...well geography even...can be immensely different than anothers. We're not all having the same experience...so we should be patient with each other and not wear our massive judgy pants to every discussion on VII.... Another thing that always amazes me is that people are constantly surprised to see 'sinners' in the Church - there's quite frankly billions of us, there's bound to be the odd stinker even in the clergy. However, we certainly don't have a monopoly on stinkers....they're everywhere. Best to bring any of those matters to light exactly as Scripture tells us - approach the person first, second bring a witness or two and third go higher up. However, the 'loudest' voices online are really willing to go loud speakering all over the internet with all sorts of awful accusations that they aren't even sure are true....this can ruin a person's reputation, and I think it's an awful thing to do, especially to our Pope. I love being Catholic! Especially in the proper spirit of VII. So, thank you Bishop for being a voice of calm reason & a true Shepherd!
I am laughing at my minds image of "massive judgy pants", well you see they are full off...you get the idea. Having put that sophomoric joke in print let me be add some more serious thoughts. First, isn't judging God's job not ours? Secondly, I agree that our experience of life in the Church is different for each of us and that makes the Bible all the more remarkable in that as each one of us reads it we all can experience it seeming to have been written just for "me". Also, the Church's wisdom in encouraging different cultures to bring the Church into them instead of forcing the culture of the missionaries on them is brilliant. The Church and the worlds cultures have all grown from their mutual influences while the Church has always managed to be true to the Gospel (with of course, a few glitches and heresies that needed correcting).
actually, that's not what Luther did. At least not intentionally. He wanted reform within the church. Most historians consider him an "accidental reformer".
@@EuropeanQoheleth Yes, but I don't see how that warrants deleting the comments. They're usually not saying anything disrespectful and I've yet to hear Bishop Barron respond to the argument that most of our great saints of the past centuries were extremists by these standards. Don't get me wrong, I like the Bishop a lot, and maybe wouldn't agree with some knee-jerk reactions radtrads have, I just don't like the censorship.
@@EuropeanQoheleth Christ was a bit too much of a complainer as well. He was so into rules and how to live... very rigid. I'm happy the church is more like you now. The church has "progressed".
We are supposed to become as one, in unity with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. St. Paul put it thus. Be of "one" mind. Not flying off madly in all directions! Evil flourishes in disunity and faulty logic. Remember, Christ will be with us till the end of the age. He told us so. Let us trust in that. Pray and let us have Faith, hope and love in Christ. Amen.
The issue is simply to ask the question, 'What has been the fruits of Vatican 2 and other initiatives of our Church since the 1960's?' What really has been happening, in spite of all this activity, is that church attendance has gone down by over 70% with even those still attending rejecting some articles on faith and morals. The Church has not grown but dwindled: That is the issue that needs to be addressed. >>>
Personally, instead of a “well you’re burning the house down” dismissal of those who critique Vatican 2, which I certainly get, a very thoughtful and dispassionate analysis about objections that the Lefevrists have with the council would do far more to help the disunity among conservatives in the Church.
Flip side of the obedience coin is the solicitude and care a bishop owes to his priest, but that side of the equation seems to be forgotten entirely especially when a priest looses his utilitarian value in the eyes of the bishop
Bishop Barron, I would first like to say that your talks have inspired me more as a catholic (not a good one) than anyone else I can think of. I continuously send your videos to my son who left the church as a young adult (a graduate of Holy Cross college who radically turned) which saddened me for his sake very much. Can you comment on the many thousands of nuns who left the church after Vatican II? Admittedly, I am uneducated on Vatican II but years ago watching almost all of the nuns from my catholic school leave the church was amazing to me (not in a good way). I apologize if you addressed this elsewhere in these comments.
My Lord Bishop, it grieves my heart to see our own brothers and sisters doing the job of defaming the Church, even better than the atheists. To what extent can anyone legitimately claim that Vatican ll brought no value to the Church? It is a completely different matter to argue that the implementation of the proceedings of the Council was rather poor in some localities, than to claim that the entire Council is without any merit, whatsoever. "There's a name for that mindset: it's called Protestantism."
My greatest repeating irritation with those against the changes of Vatican 2 is the desire to go back to the Latin mass. One very vocal and popular U Tube critic stated that Latin carried more spiritual authority and power than English as an example. What Rot! If it were true then we should be forced to back to Aramaic. How could any language carry more force than what Jesus and His disciples used? We changed from Latin to local languages so more people could know what was being said during the mass and during official rites.
Important fact: The first mass of chinese language was celebrated in 17th by missionaries in asia. As an asian, I’m feeling reluctant when some of american traditionalists excessively emphasise latin language in liturgy. The very reason why latin had been central language of church was all of your (western) european languages are kind of ‘dialect’ of latin. But the Catholic church is Catholic(=universal) so it must be exoteric to every nations, every cultures, not discriminating the outside of europe, asian, african, and every other indigenous people. Sometimes I think their obsession to latin and other ‘classical european’ stuffs is just kinda manifestation of western supremacism.
@@sweetwinterpear Hi thanks for this valuable information ! My parents were raised in Church ruled area under Vatican 1 the schools were all with the nuns and brothers and to learn Latin was obligatory because of this . Today no one teaches Latin in primary elementary schools. Pope Francis has emphasised that mass is to be made For the People ! his words .To him it has to be fair for everyone to understand ! The Church has left people Latin masses it is not condemned but optional 💟
Thank you so much for this, Bishop! I so appreciate your exhortation against opposing Vatican II. I think your point that we should not put our personal preferences above Church authorities’ decisions in this council is very well put.
As someone who accepts the Council and engages regularly with those who reject it in whole or in part, I don't think these videos are getting to the heart of the controversy. There certainly are simple, unsophisticated critiques of the Council that show a Western bias and mindset. The Bishop makes an excellent point of flourishing Christian communities in Asia and Africa, where martyrs are being made as we speak. But the most PRINCIPLED critiques of the Council have to do with how the Church has yet to account for the DRAMATIC difference in formulation between documents like Dignitatis Humanae and preconciliar papal teaching on religious liberty. It's almost taboo to even point out how seemingly incompatible those teachings are and the Church has yet to explain how they belong to the same inerrant magisterium. It undermines the magisterium to say that the Church evolved (because that raises the question of how much more can "evolve" doctrinally, even to a teaching that sounds on its face the utter opposite of what came before, which is contrary to truth) and it feels like gas lighting to say that "mere reformulation" was the project of the Council, when we got some serious developments with Dignitatis Humanae among others and Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. Respectfully, I must confess that major developments were made, and this cannot be denied without sounding strange. I submit to the VII teaching and even love some of its renewed emphasis on the universal call to holiness and yes, even the beautiful reflection on the dignity of man and Christ revealing man to himself in the modern world, but there are questions. Yet there still remains the tension between major social doctrines which came before the Council with just as much authority.
I wouldn't speak of change, but rather of development. John Henry Newman lays out how and why this is possible in regard to the doctrinal teachings of the Church. He proposes seven criteria by which we can distinguish a legitimate development from a betrayal or a corruption. Take a look at these and then apply them to, say, Dignitatis humanae.
I have sat through countless hours of your videos, seen you speak in person and read three of your books. I have never heard you get so worked up about anything as you do against the so called Rad Trads. Not the sex abuse scandal, abortion, the Vatican bank scandal, heretical priests, etc. Vatican II certainly was a legitimate Council and carries with it all the weight as any other council. But you said it yourself, the expanded room for interpretation opened a wide door, much like the way to perdition, or in this case protestantism. I'll take the un-hunky-dory pre vatican II church.
I've understand many traditional leaning Catholics, many young and starting families or with small children, don't like the way people implemented Vatican II. For example, modern Masses and songs are just not as beautiful as the Latin Mass. The prayers are not as extensive. Some of it is just preference but there is this idea that V2 modernized the Church in a way that is not always desirable, has led to a wishy washy type of Catholicism, and hasn't been helpful in maintaining cradle Catholics and evangelizing new ones. Again I think most wouldn't necessarily disagree with Vatican II, but many don't like the way it's been played out.
That is because the Church refused to say anything as the culture slipped into depravity and the Church so inherited its fruit. We can not go backwards, the past is forever set and forever out of reach. We must work with where we are and trust in God to guide the Church as He always has and always will. This is His Church, we are simply its caretakers and His humble servants.
Music is subjective. And the music you found so beautiful wouldn't have even been available to all Catholics through out time. Not to mention, as Bishop Barron points out, the growth in other countries which use their own kinds of music. And what if the church just modernized to be more modern? Wouldn't be the first time. We are way past house churches. We use baptism fonts. Churches have carpet. There is Gothic style or Baroque. Which of these is more holy? I'm not sure what you believe is "wishy washy". The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
@Kristenne Reidy the problem is that you believe that the Latin mass you attend to today, is the same as it was pre-VII, which is not the case. Unless you go to a schismatic church that isn't recognized by the Catholic Church. Read VII. Whether a preference for the extraordinary or ordinary mass, it matters not, since any Catholic can participate in which ever they feel the most comfortable with. What I do have a problem with, it the catechism of children, and how much of it has been dumbed down. If mass and its meaning were explained to children, then I don't think you would have as much of a "wishy washy type of Catholicism". That being said, let's also be real, for quite some time, some people only went to mass on Sundays as a social gathering, and during the mass discussed politics, business or just gossiped. It's nice to idealize the past and think that the churches were full because people were pious, or because the mass was beautiful and they wanted to commune with God, but it just isn't accurate. Many people in the past had to work on Sundays and only went to mass for the "big events" like Christmas, Easter, funerals or baptisms. Society has changed, but humans haven't.
It is RIDICULOUS to separate in a sharp way the Council from the Council "implementation" because the Council implementation was done by EXACTLY the same 2500 bishops (or under their guidance) that did the Council documents. I saw several times Bishop Barron blaming Archbishop Mayer passing as "the disaster!" that cause the very bad implementation in USA. How many American bishops attend the Council ? And the passing of ONE of them cause such a failure? Come on! This is REALLY a single cause fallacy. I strongly think we need more to handle this as a "questio disputata" and consider SERIOUSLY the other point of view. I do not see many asking for a repudiation of the Council, or blaming it as the single cause of every problem, but a mature discussion about controversial issues on it (i.e Liberty of Religion) is valid without becoming "protestant". Such an accusation abort any fruitful discussion.
I have seen many unfortunately. They do not realize that they are heading the same way as so many before them. Study the history of the Church, there are many angry dead movements and many tragically willfully seperate themselves from Christ's Church over such disagreements. If you see any please for the sake of their souls, warn them, schism if unrepented only leads to death. Please be careful, if this escalates, do not join any who refuse to obey, I desperately do not want to see so many who clearly love the Church to march off to destruction. God bless you.
I was born and raised in Africa. I’ve been Catholic my whole life and no bishop, I know you’ve in Africa for a week or two but even there ,the Church is developing the same syndrome and faces the very similar issues on a minor scale .In Africa Catholic Church is still the Church that loses the most of its adherents than any other Church and it’s also the biggest one with the least theologically educated adherents. The church is sinking. What makes Bishop Barron thinks that what is happening in the west will not soon happen elsewhere? The growing number of Catholics in Africa is just due to general growth in population. The attendance and the zeal of Catholics out there are somewhat the very last fruits of the great Europeans missionaries and evangelists of the 19 th century. I lived in a 90% Christian Country of 85 millions people from which half are Catholics (it was 80% in the 80s) and they didn’t even bother teach basic Catholic teachings in Catholic Schools.
I am also not from the West and I agree that what’s happening in the west will spread around the world. But calling into question a legitimate and highly authoritative ecumenical council will lend the cause less credibility, not more. It will cause division in the present church, instead of establishing continuity with the long-standing tradition of the pre-VII church. Everyone’s appalled at this great apostasy, the corruption, etc. But the problem is that those who are most dedicated to fixing the problem are falling into what is, quite honestly, an un-Catholic strategy which is destined to fail.
Crystelle Saleh on that I agree with you. I wasn’t questioning the legitimacy of the Second Vatican council at all just the naive view that the Church is just fine elsewhere. I’m very pro 2nd Vatican. And for those Catholics who oppose what they perceived as an heresy (like the Last council) My advice is we cannot fight a so-called heresy with heretical methods
I think many people in the West think Vatican II is "working" because now people in Africa can dance during the liturgy. The evangelisation of Africa occurred much before VII.
@@BishopBarron Over the top, ??? you mean a group of men who do not even have the courage to call out and excommunicate men like Cuomo, Biden, Durbin who supported abortion up to the 9th month ...
As a recently reconciled Catholic I get so discouraged when I come across these TH-cam voices that speak so badly about the Church and the Pope. Are we not called to obedience, humility and grace?
Are we speaking here of the Vatican 2 which taught: Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites. Or the Vatican 2 which also taught: Finally, there must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing. I'm pretty active in the "traditionalist" community and I know of no one who has a problem with these teachings of Vatican 2.
We the clergy must accept responsibility and repent. Period. As for the laity, like the people of Israel expecting that the Messiah will be born in their family, each family must pray that God may help them to raise at least one of their children for priesthood or for religious life, who will be a saint and a remedy for the present crisis. Good priests usually come from families where deep foundations of faith are laid. Praying for the whole Church, being good examples, resisting wrong doctrines, being formed in the true faith of the Church etc are also necessary.
"each family must pray that God may help them to raise at least one of their children for priesthood or for religious life" each family must pray that they go to heaven
" My recommendation for moving forward in our mission is to read closely the documents of Vatican II, and to read them in community and with charity." thanks Bishop Barron I loved the promise of Vatican 11 but sadly watched the demise of that promise. Faith in the Magesterium is gone, my faith in God is never stronger. Sad Australian Catholic.
Bishop, please comment on the recent document, Motu Proprio - there is much controversy, and unfortunately, very negative commentary toward Pope Francis.
5:23 _"Now are there limits to it sure. You don't obey someone who's commanding you to do something that's intrinsically evil. So you've got an authority figure and you're beholden to him but if he's telling you to do something that you know to be morally objectionable of course there's a limit to that obedience."_ I'm glad the Bishop agrees that the faithful are not obligated to obey prelates who attempt to force the faithful to receive communion in the hand since the Church's Tradition condemns such a practice. *St. Basil the Great, Doctor of the Church (330-379)* considered Communion in the hand so irregular that he did not hesitate to consider it a grave fault. *The Council of Saragossa (380):* Excommunicated anyone who dared continue receiving Holy Communion by hand. This was confirmed by the Synod of Toledo. *The Synod of Rouen (650):* Condemned Communion in the hand to halt widespread abuses that occurred from this practice, and as a safeguard against sacrilege. _“Do not put the Eucharist in the hands of any layman or laywoman but only in their mouths.”_ *6th Ecumenical Council, at Constantinople (680-681):* Forbade the faithful to take the Sacred Host in their hand, threatening transgressors with excommunication. *St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274):* _"Out of reverence towards this Sacrament [the Holy Eucharist], nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest's hands, for touching this Sacrament." (Summa Theologica, Part III, Q. 82, Art. 3, Rep. Obj. 8.)_ *The Council of Trent (1545-1565):* _"The fact that only the priest gives Holy Communion with his consecrated hands is an Apostolic Tradition."_ *Pope Paul VI (1963-1978):* "This method [on the tongue] must be retained." (Memoriale Domini)_ *Pope John Paul II:* _"To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained." (Dominicae Cenae, 11)_ *Saint Leo the Great* read the sixth chapter of Saint John's Gospel as referring to the Eucharist (as all the Church Fathers did). In a preserved sermon on John 6 (Sermon 9), Saint Leo says: _"Hoc enim ore sumitur quod fide creditur" (Serm. 91.3)._ This is translated strictly as: _“This indeed is received by means of the mouth which we believe by means of faith"._ "Ore" is here in the ablative and in the context it denotes instrumentation. So then, the mouth is the means by which the Holy Eucharist is received.
You are so tone deaf to what he (Barron) is saying! All of what you point out may be true, and maybe you have a point that it would be better to receive on the tongue. But this has NOTHING to do with the Magisterium of Vatican II. The Second Vatican Council did not tell bishops and priests to allow the congregation to receive in the hands. What it did say about the Eucharist, is that the Eucharist is the source, summit, and center of the life of the Church...
@@joshuamoore8278 But none of these things is an Essential element of the Liturgy. None of what I was replying to is an infallible teaching of the Faith, applying to all people at all times. Was Pope Benedict or St. JPII, or Pope Francis doing something sacrilegious or wrong when he celebrated Mass versus populum? How can a person claim to be Catholic and even think such a ridiculous thing?
@@joshuamoore8278 But what does that prove? There are lots of practices that the Church has changed over her long history. These "practices" are not essential to the Faith. They are not like the Assumption of Mary or the real, true, and substantial presence in the Eucharist. They're not doctrines relating to the deposit of Faith. These practices are all matters of discipline. If they were abuses, that would be different. The Church has the authority to decide what the CURRENT discipline is regarding communion in the hand, etc. NOT you or me----the Church. And when you say stuff like well I believe what earlier popes said about some practice and I reject (or refuse to accept) the current discipline of Church practices, you are separating yourself from the Body of Christ, making yourself a Protestant. When you pick and choose what you will accept and what you won't, that's called Protestantism. You don't need to justify anything, just accept with your heart and mind what the Church decides in matters of discipline.
LUMEN GENTIUM 25! Rightist conservatives and leftist liberals BOTH wrongly think they can dissent against papal teaching and Vatican II documents - they say "Paul corrected Peter in the Gospels". NO! St. Paul corrected Peter's behavior, not his teaching! Just like Lumen Gentium 25 maintains, St. Paul owed "religious submission of mind and will" to Peter's teaching. Peter has the keys, not Paul. Liberals NEED to accept the teaching of JPII and BXVI! Conservatives NEED to accept the teaching of Francis! Let's get with it, Catholics! We are ONE Church. Don't let political divisions cause division in the Church! Read Lumen Gentium 25 - this section especially: "This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."
@@tomgreene2282 God loved us so much He sent His beloved son to die for our sins . God loves us so much He wants all to be saved for all are His children! God forgives us over and over because we are all sinners ! God gave St Faustina the Chaplet of Divine Mercy to save souls because of His mercy . He gave us a time of mercy knowing this time would be a very sinful one and all deserve salvation. Vatican 2 was very aware of this time of mercy yet many do not comprehend. One can judge an action but cannot judge a man's heart for this belongs to God alone !
@@tomgreene2282 Law yes the commandements , human law a man's judgment based on a fair trial . We are all sinners striving to fallow God's commandments even St Faustina without God's grace would return to her old self she had to beg Him back ! People forget that where sin abounds so does God's grace ! Vatican 2 has nothing to do with what the world has become was or is to come . Rad trads refuse to acknowledge the evil that was present 1000s of pedo Priests ,the horrors of the past under Vatican 1. They think the Latin mass will bring back everything. Most people rebelled against extremism both in the Puritan Protestant Church and Catholic Church tired of hypocrisy they voted it out for the sexual revolution of the hippies . Vatican 2 has nothing to do with this !
@@tomgreene2282 Tom I just watched a great video with Gabe at Ascension Presents channel about homosexuality . Many of us are ignorant in the way of saying things when it comes to sin . We yes have to use the law but it's the way we say things to others . We cannot dismiss Jesus Christ greatest commandment love .
@@tomgreene2282 I did find some discussions regarding his book , which I will listen to . I've been watching Fr Alard from Divine Mercy his videos are long but so interesting! (I just had to get out of there ! 😨👽😵)They don't even understand what you write about...There is so much ignorance in this world! I never was kind with words and could be as vile but our Lord is showing me something different! How can anyone pray with such hatred towards anyone is beyond me ...🐉
Bishop Barron got it so right. Not because one horrible thing happens in one place, it must be logically happening everywhere. Indeed, we can't deny how the Euro-American Church is experiencing great problems and concern is warranted, but we should know that Catholicism has long gone beyond the geographical and cultural borders of the West. The problems in the West should not be the lens with which they view the global Church.
Long live Vatican II! Long live our Holy Father Pope Francis! Long live our beautiful, one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church!! Thank you Bishop Barron! I think we really must listen to, read him, and obey our Holy Father! God loves obedience so much. Pope Francis is continually teaching us, as you have said, and we should and must obey him, learn from him and be humble.
I would also add, read the text in its historical context. So 1962, not even 20 years after WWII, when people "discovered" concentration and extermination camps on an industrial level. I don't know how priests were able to address this with victims, family of victims, people having participated closely or from afar... A reminder, many people who lived through WWII also lived through WWI... And then there's the nuclear threat with the Cold War, people being told every day that life on Earth could end... At the same time, the Decolonization wars, and all the horrors that brought... So I firmly believe also that VII was also a way to address these issues. I really have a hard time with people stating that the Church was better off before VII, as they are truly ignoring facts and history. To think that VII created the decline in the Church in the "west", is ignoring that the seeds of this decline had been planted over 100 years beforehand.
I can’t remember which Church Father suggested that the gleaming clothes of Christ in the Transfiguration were symbolic of the Church, but I was very struck by the suggestion. The outward form - in the case of liturgy - is irrelevant if it doesn’t contain the Real Presence. We should be able to discern the outline of the true Christ from the way that the Church comports herself - if the Church isn’t inhabited by Christ, then the outer garments are no more than a heap of rags on the floor, however apparently decorative. Whether it’s the OF or EF is irrelevant: both can contain the true presence which is both sacramental and visible in the lives of the faithful.
Ok, Bishop Barron, but doesn’t it seem now, 10 months later since this recording was made, that those who attend Latin mass, are being terribly punished with Motu Proprio? Taking away a form of the mass that has been existence the longest, and deeply revered by those who attend, will not help the church achieve the balance she is looking for. Now you will have a lot of angry, seething, and misunderstood people who truly love, and are dedicated to their faith. This is very difficult for me to understand, when the punishment is not commensurate with their more extreme exhorts. Really and truly, I don’t understand why conservative viewpoints and ideologies are being blamed on the extraordinary form, which has been around for so long, and never has the Latin mass been so harshly manipulated as now. Please help your listeners understand. FYI-I am not a Latin mass attendee, regularly.
I go to the TLM because it is the Mass of all ages and also the Vatican II has had terrible consequences. For instances, look at the Church now why is that the Church is not thriving; Catholic schools, convents, and seminaries are closing and there are very few religious vocations . For the Vatican II Council, Pope John XXII brought in Lutheran and other Protestant sects to make the Catholicism more ecumenical. Call me an extremists, but prefer the Traditional Latin Mass over the Novus Order Mass.
God bless you Bishop!
I may have never known "The Lamb Who takes away the sins of the world" if were not for Vatican II. Simply because I don't speak Latin. But since Vatican II, I now have the mysteries conveyed to me in my language, and now the Church has given me opportunity to participate and acknowledge these mysteries which otherwise I may have missed or have been ignorant due to the language barrier.
I can not thank the Vatican II council enough! For the Lamb saved me!
Barry II
The "Agnus Dei qui tollis ....." and all the other prayers of the Mass had a translation for the local vernacular on the opposite page in the Roman Missal. There was no possibility of being in the dark with the Missal that was pretty much the standard gift for young people making their first Holy Communion. We used to hear about Transubstantiation a lot in those days as well.
I can appreciate you sentiments and nostalgia. And when I have watched the Latin Mass there are lots of cool significances that I like.
But the new mass saved me. It is absolutely valid. And it should not be attacked or approached with any sort of attitude of inferiority or suspicion.
Contempt for the Church's judgments is a lack of faith in the Church. And to promote contempt for the Church's judgments is to promote heresy and to deny the Spirit of God which dwells within her.
I trust her fully. As the spouse of Christ, she knows her beloved more than any other ever could. And as our mother, she takes us by the hand and leads us directly to Him.
@@barryii2411 You mind telling me if there is a Modern Millennial Traditionalists who are members of Latin Mass fanatic squad who will soon be Beatified??
The last time I check, i have here lists of Novus ORdo Millennial kids on their way to Sainthood and Beatification...
These kids love computers, internet ,interacted with the modern western world and lived and Breathed Vatican 2 and yet found holiness and sanctity??
How is this possible, while I haven't seen a millennial kid Latin mass Fanatic traditionalists who will be beatified at the present moment...
We have here...
Blessed Chiara Badano ,
Blessed Sandra Sabattini ,
Blessed Carlos Acutis........
? the Bible was translated long ago & has been accessible to the masses for centuries (eg. King James version, New International Version, New KJV etc.)
The implementation of the Council was terrible. There were terrible liturgical abuses that stemmed from the experimentation of 1965-70 and from there through the 1980’s
I am a 75 year old Australian Catholic woman who was present at Mass on the very day the Priest turned to face the congregation. I loved it that as a whole community were were praying in English. I believe we were luckier in Australia that Vatican II was actually taught well and we loved the whole idea of being a more alive more responsible more educated and more 'legitimate' part of the Church. Why is it that a group of young lay members of the Church, specially in the USA, have taken up the cause against Vatican II in ways very rarely heard here?
Our secular political climate. It is secular conservatism that leaked into the US Catholic Church. Many of them relate Vatican II to Liberalism. It is not the best way to look at Church doctrine issues.
*Secularism Liberalism*
@@richardbond258 Yes, we're seeing progressives turn their back on scripture for the sake of modern fads like in Germany with female priests and lgbtmarriage and yet you claim it is the conservatives, the people that want to follow scripture, that are secular. I'm not sure you know what secularism is and I doubt you have any familiarity with scripture.
Not even finished but this is so good. Bishop Barron always gets attacked for being lukewarm but you can really tell in this video that he is passionate about Christ’s Church. Never stop defending truth, Bishop. 🙏🏻
Passionate about Vatican II
Daniel Sallack Nothing wrong with that.
The pope didn't inact papal infalibilty at the council. That means it's up for debate.
Bishop Barron that was very relatable to an ordinary lay person, thank you. It seems like the faithful are still circling in the desert. We keep trying to create God over and over instead of following His lead. It’s clear the Holy Spirit makes a way for us to keep on track. Let us be humble and follow Our God.
I am immensely grateful to be a South African Catholic! We just don’t have this problem. There are a few people in the SSPX parish in Cape Town but the rest of us are happy with what we have. I have no problem with Latin mass but I am old enough to remember many, many people praying the rosary throughout mass because they couldn’t understand what was going on.
As a fellow South African and a convert. I have to endure so much cringe in the NO parish. It is sometimes too much to bear. I will love to visit the SSPX sometimes.
Some of my best friends are SSPXers. And no, not the TH-cam drama kind.
I am in the oldest church in South Africa. I cried a few Sundays ago when the priest gave a social justice sermon only.
It was from the gospel. It was so... Blunt and so stupid.
My parents who are also Catholic had to endure that as their first mass. I was crying... Praying that they would just keep to truth and forget the cringe.
I know for a fact that at a FSSP or SSPX church, Our Lord is honoured in both the Word and Sacrifice. At least there would never be such emptiness. I'm also just a young person and I smile as I know where faithful young people are going.
For now. I will endure the cringe. But whether here or when I will visit the SSPX, I will pray for the church and our pope.
The issue with novus ordo isnt that it's in a common tounge. The issue is the way it treats the eucharist. There is no reverence and it isnt treated as the flesh of christ. Thats why the majority of catholics here in america don't believe in the real presence.
@@martinloynaz5085 Reverent celebration of the Ordinary Form of the Mass (Novus Ordo) is actually the normative will of the Church - no getting around that.
@@angelicdoctor8016 you will have a hard time finding a reverent no mass. Not exactly hard to find a reverent tlm. The way the blessed sacrament is treated is a sacrilege. And just because it's the current will of the church doesn't mean its right. Its also the will of the church to praise pagan idols from the Amazon. That doesnt mean it's correct.
The Pope encouraged the use of the Missal at Mass many years before Vatican II
So, who dropped the ball then and who will be re reading and implementing Vatican II properly? Is this for the laity? Or the clergy? This division within the church is obviously a cry for clarity and unity. I would really like to know. The division is very painful.
I think each has their role to play. But I think the laity are really championing this issue in general, in a different way than clergy are, partly because we have the advantage of not being caught up in the complexities of the role of clergy. So I think we should be on the forefront of this. I think we are the only ones who really can be.
The Catholic Church at every level has very poor executions of V2. Its like the CEO and the heads of dept came out with the vision and objectives. Then there is no proper plan to roll out .
Jeremiah Ong then maybe we should start planning it ourselves
@@crystellesaleh4800 Problem i think is the Catholic Church is a hierarchical Church. Many laities simply wait for the clerfy to do something so we are in a catch 22 situation
Jeremiah Ong yes certainly. It’s a difficult situation. But it’s also a situation in which God is massively invested, so. I’d say the odds are on our side!
Thank you Bishop - so appreciated this! All the Taylor Marshall, Michael Voris, Patrick Coffin etc echo chamber was so disturbing to me - and reading all their followers hate on Pope Francis, yourself, Vatican 2 etc - felt like the farthest thing from Catholicism, laced with fear and dread, that I've ever experienced. I'm so grateful I didn't fall for their drum-beat - and through their errors, they are leading so many astray and away from the Catholic Church. I only wish they'd hear this talk, open their hearts, repent and come back to build up the church, not tear it down. God Bless You!!! Grateful for you!
I'm 100% with you Mark. We'll pray the Holy Spirit brings unity to the Church.
Angelic Doctor yes - I too will pray for them & for unity/love. So grateful I found Bishop Barron & recently joined his Word On Fire Institute - allowing a wealth of resources to study/learn & not falling into a sense of being adrift. It’s like having a Spiritual Director in steroids. 😂🙏❤️
Such a relief to find rational Cathokics who aren't giving in to the polemics.
What I love about the Catholic Church; it’s so “human” and errs, yet so “divinely” guided, and survived this long while still maintains basic “doctrine”, but adapting to changing times to accommodate growing diversity of cultures nations etc. God bless the Church.
Absolutely correct ....
Basic doctrine u guys don't even believe what u believed just 40 years ago. U have a. Ever changing developing doctrine.
@@sinfulyetsaved doctrine develop for CLARITY and better understanding...not because the doctrine is rejected...The Trinity word is not even found in the bible...
@@sinfulyetsaved A protestant friend accused us of unbiblical doctrines the other day...she could not name the doctrines, though. She accused us of worshipping Mary, but she's never attended a mass. "Study to show yourself approved unto to God," dear brother, before you presume to teach us. Read the church fathers and early church history. Attend mass, then at least you'll have some knowledge before you speak. Don't be afraid to discover Catholics have Something you don't.
Thank you Bishop. I used to be a rad trad anti-II Vat, but now I see that is an untenable position for a Catholic. Also, some of the arguments that I hear from the opposite side are just borderline sedevacantist.
It is hard to accept that I am not the shepherd but a sheep, and that I need to trust God's providence and his promises to the Church.
Vatican 2 doesnt have papal infalibilty
@@martinloynaz5085 that's quite debatable. Just because a dogma is not issued that doesn't mean the council is not infallible.
@@HosannaInExcelsis Vatican 2 is full of many doctrinal novelties. The pope and everyone at the council recognized that it was not infallible. I and most traditional Catholics don't think Vatican 2 is that bad. Its the way it was practiced. They wanted to create modern evangelization and make it easier for people to come to the faith but what they did was just water down the faith so that it would be easy to swallow. They compromised the faith and its dogma for the sake of increasing attendence numbers. Being a catholic has become a token in the modern world and it means nothing to most people. We should be extremist when it comes to christ. It is the only thing in life worth fighting for.
@@martinloynaz5085 I would challenge you, Martin, to locate any error in Vatican II documents - must be direct quotes.
@@angelicdoctor8016 first I must ask you. How do you not see error in implementation. According to pew research 75% present of American Catholics below the age of about 50 don't belelive in the real presence in the eucharist. Vatican 2 got rid of the need for christ by making people believe that all religions held truth. Its no wonder beleivers in the West are disappearing. Also we arent saying its all caused by this one document rather this document is the manifestation of many terrible movements. The sex revolution, secularism, humanism, and others. I would first like to know. Do you really think Vatican 2 has been good for the faith?
I think that you are wonderful. I'm a catechumen and prefer Latin Mass. I also do watch all sorts of Catholics on youtube because that is how I learned about Catholicism during covid-19, so I've been exposed to all sorts of opinions. I would consider myself a traditional Catholic when I'm lucky enough to become one, and I think your answers to these questions were fantastic. I hope the Holy Spirit can heal hearts and fix this division. Thank you for spending time on this topic.
Just curious. Why do you prefer Latin Mass ?
@@thyikmnnnn I love the history of it and converting from general protestant denominations it is the kind of Catholicism most converts crave: old, mysterious, super reverent. I love the chanting and incense. Also I want to kneel and receive on the tongue.
@@dmd418 Can they not have these things but do it in english ? So there is no incense or chanting in the english version ? I am not catholic.
@@thyikmnnnn I think the english masses differ a lot depending on where you are. The Latin Mass has something called a missal that you follow along with so you can read what they are saying in both Latin and english. Also the scriptures and homily are also given in english. Once you go for a while you remember it and can follow it pretty easily because you repeat a lot of the prayers etc. Also you can learn to pray your rosary in latin through youtube.
@@dmd418 So the Mass said in English isnt just a direct translation from the Latin mass ?
The"implementation was wrong". I agree. And yet nothing is done. We continue to watch our Church become more and more Protestant. Priest and Bishops whose actions are not that of a true believer. Let's talk about this. Instead of bashing other good Catholics who want what's best.
Good Catholics who want what's best don't challenge the validity of Vatican II. At what point did he bash those who accept Vatican II?
Truth Hurts - I sure hope you're wrong about that. I'm in the process of leaving Protestantism because IT is "becoming more Protestant," if you get my meaning. They are adrift and becoming more like the World. That's not what I've seen in the Catholic Church so far: it's historically unyielding to popular whims and sentiments, and I LOVE that! May it forever stand strong in the Truth!
He’s not bashing good Catholics who want what’s best, he’s shedding light on the fact that good Catholics can’t challenge the validity of Vatican II per se. Imagine if instead of bickering over an issue which is already resolved and most certainly not ours to question (the validity of Vatican II as a council) all we “good Catholics” united in order to do the only thing that actually can be done: tackle the terrible implementation of the council and reestablish a sense of continuity with the pre-Vatican II world without “throwing the baby out with the bath water”. Instead of attempting to do what is good for the Church, “good Catholics” are getting drawn into a schismatic and disobedient rebellion against the Church, which surely will do as much damage to the Church as the terrible implementation of the council did.
@Truth Hurts No! Perhaps US Americans watch the Church become more and more Protestant. That is not the case elsewhere in the world.
@blob blob welcome to the Catholic Church, buddy
This issue is a very serious and urgent one and needs to be addressed. Thank you Bishop Barron for this clear voice. Good people are unable to bear the shame of scandals in the family and want to distance themselves and clear themselves and feel righteous by raising voices of condemnation. May the Lord raise up prophets to cry and lament before His presence even while hanging their heads in shame for the issues within the family. When Shimei threw stones and cursed David, David endured patiently without reacting, saying, "It may be that the Lord will look on my distress and the Lord will repay me with good for this cursing of me today." 2 Sam 16:12. The shame and pain have to bring streams of healing grace to the Church rather than "righteous rebellion".
Those of us who are discouraged must remember that prayer without patience and perseverance is not the prayer recommended by the Word of God.
"If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart!" - Nelson Mandela
Nelson Mandela bombed school busses full of kids so maybe pick a different person
I think the best way to solve these matters are for those on each side to take these matters to reflection in praying the Stations of the Cross as written by the Saints (St.Alphonsus Ligeuri, St.Francis of Assisi, St.Faustina, etc. And reflect and pray it on our knees with heads bowed and let the reflection show and reveal to each his or her own intentions
Is this foolproof? Of course not, but we must crack our hardened hearts open and see them as Christ sees them, then we shall know the Truth, for ourselves and His Holy Church.
We are divided due to pride, vanity and wrath, hang upon the Cross and let these be burned away in the Fire of Divine Love. We must die to ourselves if we want to know Christ. We must first admit we are fools before we can be granted the Divine Wisdom.
What do you say?
Greetings Bishop Barron! I love your knowledge about our Catholic faith and the way you are able to explain it so clearly to us. I know we have problems in our church and we've had them since Jesus Christ walked this Earth. But God is faithful and He will be with us till the end of time! I pray for you Bishop Barron, I also pray for these extremists, that our Lord open their hearts and minds to the truth of our church and instead of dividing us help to maintain unity. Thank you so much for your videos! May God bless you, Pope Francis and our Catholic Church!
The church should be recognized by the love of it's members for each other. If we can live in that, I think God will be able to engender conversion in us and accomplish his purposes. If we can't live in a deep love for each other then lets seek conversion ... me included :) Let's not let Satin win on this one and spread the divisiveness that he so desperately wants. This is to important!
Well said Bishop Barron. May the Holy Spirit always be your Guide on the Truth🙏🏻
I have only been Catholic for 6 yrs. I have only recently (last few months) realized how very little I know. I don't want a Ukrainian orthodox mass or a Latin mass or an Eritrean mass. I'm still learning the faith I just fell in love with.
There is a general hostility in everything now.
@@gracepetersen1442 I agree, but let me tell you: As someone who was baptized, confirmed, and given first communion in april 2021 at age 27, when I went to Latin Mass my faith was greatly strengthened. Learning another liturgy is not difficult, most latin masses will have missals avaliable. It is so much more reverent, beautiful, and glorious. You dont need to be a radtrad to go to Latin Mass.
Thank YOU,I appreciate your nuanced,balanced videos and your channel! Many seem to have missed your point
Yes I am angered by the mis-characterization of Bishop Barron. I am so proud of him, how he does not stoop to their low level of discourse. I'm praying the provocations do not draw fire onto innocents.
The clarification about how Vatican II was implemented *in this country* is key, correct, and helpful.
Thank you!
Bishop Barron, your evangelization brought me into the Catholic Church 2 years ago and I am forever grateful. You have such a gift for communication through stories and with your biblical history knowledge. Thank you. I am struggling, however, to understand why desiring Catholic Traditionalism makes one an extremist. If vat 2 was so effective than more Catholics would believe the Eucharist to be the true presence. This is not about you, or me, but with the tradition of the church, as passed down from JC, it seems glaringly obvious that Vat II did not bring the mass to the world but the world to the mass. I’m learning to accept that it takes radical faith to live out this doctoring according to the Church’s and Saints teachings.
Agreed. I'm also a recent convert, thanks in no small part to Bishop Barron. I attend a Novus Ordo parish on Saturday evening, then drive for an hour on Sunday to attend the TLM. It isn't nostalgia which draws me back there every week. I've only been Catholic three months. When attending the traditional service, it doesn't strike me as being focused on the priest, but on God. So in that regard I respectfully disagree with Bishop Barron.
The difference in the spirit of reverence between the two is almost palpable. I can't imagine Pope Emeritus Benedict would have explicitly sanctioned the traditional Mass if he thought it would lead to extremism. Wouldn't his ruling on the Latin Mass & its everlasting place within the Church have the weight of papal infallibility?
I would agree with you and add my voice here. I have been Catholic all my life since infant baptism, and Bishop Barron's Catholicism Series is what introduced me to his Word on Fire ministry roughly 8 years ago and I've always deeply appreciated what that ministry does and his enthusiasm for the faith. And Bishop Barron, I hope either you or one of your staff members reads this and responds, because it is such a critical issue we're dealing with and needs to be addressed adequately, not sidelined as a 'rad trad' problem. I remember watching a video Bishop Barron made some years ago where even he spoke of how Pope Benedict gave permission for the Latin Mass so that those who wish to experience it can, since most priests and bishops weren't allowing it to. I guess the question is why wouldn't they? Also, and the Bishop alluded to this again in this video, the problem is how it was implemented not the actual council itself. But why was it implemented that way by many bishops and priests? Why did the great intellectuals the Bishop refers to, and whom I also have great respect for, produce texts that are easy to misinterpret? Bishop Barron himself says in this video that he began his writing ministry by criticizing V2's implementation. The point of all these questions I'm raising is that this problem can't be brushed aside, the rot is bigger than the Bishop makes it sound. When I think of a famous priest running around proclaiming gender ideologies that are against church teaching and morals and hear some bishops, cardinals, priests and nuns support him, and very very few speaking out to correct him, we have a serious problem. We have a problem when a priest who speaks the simple truth of the faith and tells people they can't be true Catholics and vote for a platform that is against the faith in so many direct and big ways such as having extreme pro-choice stances, whilst there's an alternative that is so pro-life and pro-faith, and said priest is shut down by his bishop, we have a big problem. Bishop Barron, again, I admire your passion, teaching, and love for the Church. For the Eucharist. But please dialogue more with the so called 'extremists', don't brush them off. I agree with you by the way about V2, we shouldn't throw it out, it was absolutely needed. But more importantly, and I know you are aware of the problem with the rise in disbelief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. You said it in one of your earlier videos, that we lost a sense of the reverence for the Eucharist after V2. That is a big problem that's contributed to our situation today. People aren't being nostalgic, they want to be able to reverence Christ to the best that they can without being stopped. True enough, there are those who are extreme, who think the traditional latin Mass is the only valid one, but it's coming from a good place of realizing that the faith is under attack, from within than from without, and the source and summit is being ignored or given less and less importance, which is the real problem today: lukewarmness, not extremism. These 'extremists' are on our side as far as today's battle goes. Perhaps Bishop Barron you could clarify this in a video, that TLM and 'extremists' are not the same thing and there's nothing wrong and there's everything good in wanting to experience TLM as a way of gaining a deeper reverence for the body of Christ in the Eucharist. Personally I've never had the opportunity to experience TLM, and from what I see of those who have, it's a whole different experience and a lot more reverent. I can believe this, because when I started kneeling to receive the Eucharist at Mass, that simple act was overwhelming, and I had an idea of what I was missing all along. So, I wouldn't interpret this as nostalgia, but as a hunger for orthodoxy, for reverent worship, for Christ. Even here in Africa where I am, the church loses numbers and many are lukewarm and don't really believe in the Eucharist, we shouldn't assume that Africa is gaining just because it is true for some African countries. These are just some of my thoughts on the issue. Please don't be defensive of V2, but rather engage people more on this. I know the 'extremists' can be sharp tongued and I think at times unkind, but get past that and you'll see a real yearning for truth. I also appreciate them for being able to uncover many things wrong in our church, something the mainstream media both in the church and outside her do not do.
Uh do you think Christ gave them Last Supper in Latin?? 😂
Sounds like you should be advocating for the Aramaic mass!
I cannot agree more. This trend of trying to destroy the institutional pillars doesn't only happen with the Church. Bishop Barron explains it very well. Once you begin, you can't stop. A dangerous path.
👏👏Bravo, Bishop, and thank you for saying this so clearly, boldly, and compassionately. May this be a turning point moment for the US Church when we can unite in the very spirit you propose and, together, move forward to live out the very real call for us in this moment in our Church and our world. Thank you for your ministry.
Thank you for speaking on this Bishop!
As I lie in bed with COVID pneumonia in a hospital icu without access to confession communion or sacrament of the sick without a priest in site due to GOVERNMENTAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL shutdown I felt I was living in an alternate reality. I hope Our Good Bishop is referring to that extremism
My sympathies! How did you acquire COVID-19?
God bless you!
@@a.borodin2435Why do you assume someone knows specifically how they caught a virus. In a pandemic it is hardly surprising that someone catches it.
Nope just mad at the rad trad lads
I’m a physician
I feel with Fr. Barron's sincere arguments and holistic view of the crisis within the Church. It takes a tough heart to truly DEFEND THE CHURCH nowadays. It is either YOU STAND WITH THE CHURCH or DENY YOUR CHURCH. But it is the HOLY SPIRIT who guides the CHURCH and protects HER FROM the ENEMIES, seen and unseen. The Church must pray together and act together. This could be one possible solution that we can do as one People of God.
I am an Asian Catholic and have been greatly involved in my parish and a member of one of these communities brought about by the Second Vatican Council. Though we have been warned by the Lord about judging our brothers, but it is hard not to perceive the difficulties we have with some of our priests regarding Liturgy, the power struggles among themselves that sometimes affect the unsuspecting laity, the moral problems with some of them that are scandalous to the faithful who know their deeds, the seeming ignorance of the faithful regarding the basics of the Catholic faith, the tendencies to slide into making political homilies of some priests, the disobedience of some priests and laity on the bishop and the basic tenets of the faith and countless others. It can be that the Church may have been prepared by the Second Vatican Council to provide answers to the questions left opened by the Enlightenment, but it also opened floodgates of different sorts. For me the opening words of Pope John XXIII to let the windows of the Church be opened to the air of the world was captivating indeed, plus his words of opening the 2000-year old treasure of the Catholic Church and offer it to the world was something daring. But looking at it now through the experience of the Church after the Council, it is just messy and confusing.
Very brilliant as always Bishop Barron. Thank you.
As a seeker considering becoming a Catholic, I think you guys gotta calm down a little bit. I believe the Bishop used the wrong term, but I believe he's made a great point. He said "extremism," but what I think he really means is, "emotional attachment." Emotional attachment is one of the things that drove me away from progressive liberalism, because I came to the conclusion that the whole ideology was significantly based around that concept. Look towards many of the great leaders of America, and many of the poor leaders. On the point of the great leaders, George Washington, whom we associate most with patriotism, was, on the point of emotions, very cold, detached, calm, and patient. FDR, in the face of WWII and the evils of Adolf Hitler, though he committed some horrible acts (such as attempting to pack the court and putting Japanese people in camps), remained mostly steady. Even Ronald Reagan, who was known for his ability to communicate emotionally, was more focused on hope and reason than extreme passion. For our bad leaders, you can look to Richard Nixon screaming, "I AM NOT A CROOK," Barrack Obama's focus on the wants and desires of vulnerable people, LBJ using the goodwill of the Civil Rights movement (which was, imo, an amazing movement that evolved into something less desirable) to push for all sorts of regulations and controls, Herbert Hoover refusing to regulate even in the face of the Great Depression. What I'm trying to say is that emotional attachment to ideas, when relied on alone, causes significant problems. Moral attachment is much better.
Butt Quack . I think that you are absolutely right regarding the dangers of over-reliance on emotionalism in guiding faith and religious decisions. Bishop Barron has been very consistent on this point. Godspeed on your spiritual discernment.
Yes! re-read the texts of V2. For a church that is 2000+ years old 60 years is but a moment. Catholics , particularly in the west must re engage with the intellectual tradition of the church. Flights of emotion just leads to panicked arm waving and extremism. A reasoned process gives rise to solid foundations and a way forward.
Agreed! Many of us probably should have expected that the first few decades after a council would be tumultuous, like Nicaea, Chalcedon, and Trent. So we do need to "regain our footing" again after reorganizing our spiritual battle plan as the Church, so to speak. We regain our footing, always rooted in the past, holding the present, and looking into the future.
Yes and its interesting that commentators have said it takes at least 100 years to begin to integrate the work of any council. Fortunately, In Australia we didn't have the problems related to travesties in the celebration of the Mass (in an attempt to be relevant eg consecrating pizza and coca cola) sounds like the absolute worst of it.
@@janewalton2901 We definitely have those problems in Australia, you're just lucky you haven't seen them in person yet.
@@charliej600 Yes Chris we do have problems in the Australian Church, I was referring to the liturgical abberations which I never saw here at anything like the same level.
Vatican II opened up the church to the common person. I didn't study Latin and had no understanding of the prayers said during mass. Now at least I hear the words. Why the church is not thriving in the western culture is a major concern for all believers. We know what people are missing out on-their life in the light and beauty of Christ. Lets keep praying for the fallen away Catholics.
Thank you for your insights, Bishop! I am deeply saddened by the growing hostility toward the Vatican II documents due to sheer misinterpretation and snobbishness. May the Holy Spirit enkindle in us the spirit of obedience and understanding!
Wouldn't the overriding issue in the church be lukewarmness? That seems to be the biggest issue the Catholic Church is facing right now. Not extremism. That's kind of a loaded term meant to shut down discussion.
sigh We can address lukewarmness AND extremism. I fail to see how it's a loaded term meant to shut down discussion.
No doubt that lukewarmness is by far the problem in the Church yet extremism gets all the attention. There’s no term for the lukewarm people but “radtrads” is used readily for the “extremists. Bishop Barron even used it in this presentation
As much as we seem to love a good fight online, in a church (or other organization like Scouts) open controversy seems to cause people to flee.
@@EuropeanQoheleth I know both can be addressed, but both are not. I keep hearing this being addressed but not the lukewarm issue. I am not a traditionalist. I am newer to the whole idea of a traditionalist wing of the church. I have never been to the Latin Mass. But I saw the swipes that came out against those people at the beginning of the pandemic and I don't understand the vitriol against them, I find it curious and suspicious. There is a strong sentiment against them, but not against Catholics that are unfaithful to the church magisterium, spreading their particular brand of heresy in our Catholic schools, CCD classes, churches, social groups, etc.
I have recently met some people who go to the Latin Mass and they are not heretics nor schematics. They are not SSPX. They are solid on catholic moral teaching and church authority and seem like they could be strong allies. Now I know that this video is addressing a particular group of people on youtube. But when everyday strong Catholics, like me, come across that stuff its a real turnoff because , yes, it is, in fact, a loaded term. Meant to instantly turn the reader think negatively of the opposing side. Maybe they deserve it, or maybe they don't but their isn't enough understanding on either side, but I know strong Catholics in society are regularly unfairly called extremists. So consider me, and I am sure plenty of others, disgusted by calling fellow strong Catholics extremists.
The lukewarmness has been a bigger and much deeper more prevalent problem in the American Catholic Church and no one is addressing it. But wow are they addressing this. The churches shut down. The "shepherds" left their "sheep" in the field when the night came. We were struggling with lukewarmness to begin with and the bishops pretty much just ensured a drastic increase of this issue. Lukewarm, not properly catechized Catholics think that church on the T.V. is just as valid as Mass. I have young children who have to overcome the societal sickness , and now with a church that, from the outside looking in, seems to be apathetic to the idea of grace being the food for saved souls. I find it incredibly strange that the leadership is not not sounding the alarm on this. "The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.: John 10:12. Do we belong to them or they hired hands? Were scattered! And injured. I am deeply hurt by the church shutting us out There was not even an attempt at creative ways to continue feeding God's people. .The shut downs of churches are going to have massive consequences for ALL the faithful and this is devastatingly important. Churches are posting that if you don't feel safe there then you need to stay home. This is not appropriate for a faith community. Anyone who knows church history knows that contrary to any idea of what it is to be Catholic. Something is wrong! Something is off!
Just because one uses their tongue to express themselves for or against VII 'extremely' does not necessarily mean they aren't 'luke warm' - and it's very far from meaning they are 'on fire' too.
That's the point! There's crazy self righteousness afoot! I wish I heard more people turn the critical eye on how they receive the Holy Eucharist 'in their heart'. As opposed to silly judgements about whether it's on the tongue or in the hand, one is better etc etc....It's always been the heart of the receiver, never the tongue or hands!
You are introducing a faith 'judgement' into the talk here, a judgement only Christ Himself is qualified to make.
As we stand up to move to receive, we should be more concerned that it's with a proper heart in my opinion.
If extremists put as much time & passion into The Great Commission, and trusted the Holy Spirit to work all things for the good - then THAT would be the Spirit of Vatican II.
It seems that a big problem with the way the extremists on both ends of the spectrum when considering Vatican II is that they both wish that Vatican II supported their own ideologies when what would be a better approach would be to let Vatican II inform their ideologies. I pray that all of us open our hearts to God's grace and mercy. Seeing that God's mercy and grace are unlimited than it seems that He is offering us plenty of both.
Thanks so much Bishop Barron. May all diocese take up your suggestion to reflect and discuss Vatican II documents and ask the Holy Spirit to guide their interpretation and implementation
Thank you Bishop Barron for your explanation of the need for Vatican II. But what I have a problem with you said that you want to rid the priesthood of this cancer of the sex abuse. Why haven’t more priest like yourself spoken out about Fr. James Martin who is clearly going against church teaching with his homosexual agenda and standing for the truths of our faith and what God’s word says. Many priests are silent about this and therefore many people accept and think that this is the norm what he advocates. This is what I think bring much frustration to the laity.
@@tomthx5804 Thanks Tom. I have been praying that God would raise up courageous Bishops to speak out about this issue. If enough Bishops would come together to defend the teachings of the church I believe it would really make a difference.
'Why'? Well have a little think. Maybe most of the clergy, priests and bishops alike, are homosexual or someone has the dirt on them for some other proclivity. That would explain everything. Failing that, they're frightened of being unpopular, like when Peter denied Jesus.
I wouldn't know who Martin is except for the whiners who constantly invoke his name. Sometimes there is more value in being silent than engaging in senseless controversies, as Scripture warns us.
Thank you so much Dear Bishop Barron!!! You have helped me enormously to understand the correct position regarding Vatican 2!!!! God bless you your Excellency!!!
By virtue of our authority, we hereby declare, publish and teach that Bishop Barron as awesome and define his words in this video as an indespensible contribution to the deposit of faith. Given this day : 26th September in the year of the Virus.
Excellent video! I've been focusing a lot on Vatican II in my own videos lately as well. The proper interpretation of the Council is crucial. As Bishop Barron stated: the rad trads and rad libs both misrepresent and misinterpret the Council.
I'm so angry ..that I burn my own house alongwith my self ...wisdom 🙏
God bless Bishop Barron. He gets it.
Excellent. Thanks once again Bishop Barron!
Thank you Bishop. The world was changing before Vatican II. God is in every stage of the Church. He presides at our disagreements too. We should concentrate on God and not too much on personalities. St Paul rebuked the Church about this danger.
There are people with so much delusion, Bishop, that they will as you say "burn the house down with them in it". Try as they can they will NEVER burn God's House down. They will be burnt out by their own anger. God will prevail in the long run. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Please pray for me...for conversion and holiness and healing...I'm a convert to the Catholic church...thank you
The words "missionary council" are certainly new to me as they relate to Vatican II. I was born, raised and educated in the Catholic Schools in various states in the Mid-West. When the the changes to the Mass started in the early 1960's and beyond, I never heard this explanation of "missionary council". In a catholic men's college and later at a state college in the South with a close relationship to a Franciscan priest in the Newman Club, I never heard the words "missionary council".
One change to the Mass, to prayers, to gutting old, beautiful prayers like the 23rd Psalm were made and no explanation was ever given by the priests.
So, how does all of the Mass and prayer changes, the substitution of words for the original words, constitute a "missionary council"?
What so many of us who were in our 20's in the 1960's felt was that the Church had written us off as valued members. Why was there such an exodus of Priest and Nuns from the church in that same time frame? As tempted as I was to leave for some other denomination, I've stuck with it in being a Catholic, but it has been hard, really hard especially when the sex scandals broke. But I'm still here.
I think the bishops wanted to make mass more protestanty so the prots would convert easier.
@@tomthx5804 Vatbashers 'haven't made a single convert'. Of course you have no evidence whatsoever. And you can't argue because you can't prove a negative. And all it takes for your sandcastle to be washed away is the existence of one convert. Don't bet the farm.
I celebrate Vatican II. I lived through pre~Vatican II. Sitting through Latin Mass, asking what it means, the only words in English were the hymns. We didn't mind wearing a veil, kneeling at Communion, receiving the Host on the tongue. What changed from laity being left out of most of the discussions, very little public discourse, one way communication, little variation between cultural expression was More interactions. Onward Christians, forward, on on, time marches ever forward. We can now move on to living out the faith with conviction because of Vatican II and all that it produced in promoting understanding about the faith. Looking back at the back of our presider, the many words unspoken, prayed in silence, its time has passed.
I never went to a crazy irreverential Mass. After Vatican 2, they were the exception not the rule. We had the most beautiful, meaningful Masses at our daily Masses after Vatican 2. It's too bad the exceptions are touted as being the Norm. As a youth, I loved the Latin Mass, and I love the vernacular Mass even MORE. I LOVE THE ABILITY TO PARTICIPATE AS THE EARLY CHRISTIANS DID. I'm not against the Latin Mass, but it needn't be the norm. Both can exist in charity. Go to the Mass that inspires You. They all praise God. God looks in the heart.
That was not true in the 1970’s etc. there were terrible Liturgical abuses
I agree with you Bishop that people cannot reject the council and remain Catholics, but simply saying why you cannot reject it is far less powerful than why you should embrace it. Catholics, especially young Catholics are worried about the effects of the council, even if they are side effects. Reverence has decreased, liturgical abuses still exist, lack of belief in the Real Presence, Cardinals (such as Marx) calling into question established Catholic teaching. We do need to embrace Vatican 2, but at the same time restore a lot of the great practice and accept that it allowed for misinterpretation and contributed to the decline . We need reverent liturgy, both for the Ordinary and Extraordinary Form. We need heavy preaching on established orthodox teaching and liberal Catholics need to have the spotlight put on them so everyone can realise the lies they are spreading. Every effort should be made to unify with traditional groups, even the SSPX as our separated brothers and sisters. An uncomfortable truth in the church today is that many would not have such reverent liturgy if it wasn't for the restoration of the Latin Mass under Benedict and that wouldn't have happened without the SSPX.
Excellent, become a Cardinal and tell them your ideas. Until then you can pray about it and attend the NO Mass without complaining 💪💪
The voice of reason.
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 Mother Mary Pray For Us 🙏Abba Father Bless us and we Adore You 🙏
Excellent talk Bishop Barron!
I like the way Bishop Barron explains the importance of seeing the whole contribution of Ecumenical Councils and the fallacy of post hoc ergo hoc.
"I say a plague on both your houses!" 😂 love it
My comment as a protestant is this: If the second vatican counsil is the problem for the decline of the RCC in the west...Why is it also something that we Christians outside the RCC also see in our traditions too. We don't have a second vatican to blame. In my veuw, the Second Vatican is an important "instrument" for the higher level of unity/closeness with the RCC we as Christians have today. And that is important here in the West because the "pressure" the secular culture put on the Christian Church. (Just some thought from me.)
I want to pray the same way my grandfather did, and hist grandfather before him, and countless Catholics including all the Popes. Today this is extreme.
I wholeheartedly agree! Not just the Mass either, but ALL the sacraments as they once were offered, in the extraordinary form!
@Bek Blaku I respect your view, since you sound like a faithful Catholic. Here in Germany there is LGBT flags in front of the Churches, in opposition to Pope's teachings. Yet I doubt that Bishop Barron would use the same argument here. I am afraid that people who create division are not traditionalists.
Do you want to have the same lifestyle as your grandfather had. If so, get off your computer and stop posting on TH-cam!
@@rrickarr They all used the best technology of the period they had. On the other hand if something works for 1000 years, it is likely it will also work for the next 1000 years. This is why the best things we have last very long.
Bishop Barron is great and speaking a lot of wisdom.
That's true.. I was born in Vatican II era but my parent told me how difficult it is mess in latin... Especially there are a lot of people who hardly can't read back then... And because of that... While the priest held a mess, the parish spending time by praying rosary during Mess...
Yes, that was what my grandmother used to do during Mass, pray the Rosary
I think a lot would change if people would read the documents. But people do not like to read anymore. People don’t even want to read a full email. Many would rather watch a video and be told how to feel about Vatican II. In full disclosure, I haven’t read them either. Challenge accepted.
The average Catholic can start by reading the documents. I don’t understand what you mean. Are you saying what’s the point? I’m not trying to get combative just trying to understand.
www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm
I would like to hear more about the implementation issues you mention Bishop Barron. I think you are right that folks can’t and should not treat the council as something they can cherry pick what they like and not like. But I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and something went wrong. Vocations down and I would say that most of the folks I grew up with have long fallen away (kids I went to Catholic school with for 12 years). Most of the nuns I had in grammar school left the convent. The sex scandal was a crusher also.
Nothing to do with Vatican II. But the Good Samaritan is a good story to read if we want to know, not how to "get back" but just how to get better. The Good Samaritan helped the traveler and gave him all he could without concern for who he was or why he was there. We are preoccupied with who deserves what in our culture. It's not love of neighbor that we ignore (though we do try) it's love of enemy. Find someone you you don't trust, who you don't like, who you may hate. And give them what you most want. That's where Jesus is waiting for us all.
I had six children who grew up in that time period and went to 12 years of Catholic school. My husband and I were and are practicing and involved Catholics. None of our children are practicing their faith now. I At that time the church was not reaching out to the young people......some within the church were giving misinformation which led to confusion among us all. Our music, the liturgy., the words...everything changed. I am a traditional, Baltimore Cathicism Catholic...that was where my faith was born and it hasn’t changed,but my children were affected by what was happening and left. Now...abortion is wrong....yet there are Bishops that say you should “examine your personal conscious and decide,” but I am not voting for Trump.....I am not sure of his opinion on abortion, but the message was clear about President Trump....from the information I receive about Catholics are split on this subject of abortion...it is only one issue ...on the other hand, it is the only issue..my question...where does the church stand?
@@beverlyyoung7820 The problem for Catholics is that the Republicans tend to support immoral policies as well. Capital punishment, less regulated gun control, worse social service policies. So the stance has become to not vote by single issue. As for abortion, we are allowed to vote for a politician who supports abortion so long as we aren't voting for them because they support abortion. Basically, any party you cast a vote for supports at least one position Catholics are called to oppose. So you have to examine your conscience. I personally try and stack good policies against bad policies. And there is also the issue of parties using topics just to get a vote with really no intention of making change. So a good example here is if you are for some gun control, the Democrats say they are as well but Obama actually lessened restrictions on access to guns more than Bush. They don't make it easy to feel good about your vote but that's the system we have right now. Hope that's some help. Be safe and go with God.
Well done, Bishop. I shall contemplate and pray before responding but you gave us allot to consider. God bless.
This was a very helpful video! Thank you!
Great way of putting it, that "you don't burn the house down" Bishop. That's what Luther did & look at those results.
Also, I think we should always bear in mind that one persons experience of life in the Church, depending on various things like...well geography even...can be immensely different than anothers. We're not all having the same experience...so we should be patient with each other and not wear our massive judgy pants to every discussion on VII....
Another thing that always amazes me is that people are constantly surprised to see 'sinners' in the Church - there's quite frankly billions of us, there's bound to be the odd stinker even in the clergy. However, we certainly don't have a monopoly on stinkers....they're everywhere.
Best to bring any of those matters to light exactly as Scripture tells us - approach the person first, second bring a witness or two and third go higher up. However, the 'loudest' voices online are really willing to go loud speakering all over the internet with all sorts of awful accusations that they aren't even sure are true....this can ruin a person's reputation, and I think it's an awful thing to do, especially to our Pope.
I love being Catholic! Especially in the proper spirit of VII. So, thank you Bishop for being a voice of calm reason & a true Shepherd!
I am laughing at my minds image of "massive judgy pants", well you see they are full off...you get the idea. Having put that sophomoric joke in print let me be add some more serious thoughts. First, isn't judging God's job not ours? Secondly, I agree that our experience of life in the Church is different for each of us and that makes the Bible all the more remarkable in that as each one of us reads it we all can experience it seeming to have been written just for "me". Also, the Church's wisdom in encouraging different cultures to bring the Church into them instead of forcing the culture of the missionaries on them is brilliant. The Church and the worlds cultures have all grown from their mutual influences while the Church has always managed to be true to the Gospel (with of course, a few glitches and heresies that needed correcting).
Judgy pants😂🤣 now that’s funny stuff , made me smile
actually, that's not what Luther did. At least not intentionally. He wanted reform within the church. Most historians consider him an "accidental reformer".
And let the constructive criticism deletions commence
The ''constructive criticism'' will be the traditionalists complaining as always.
😂👍
@@EuropeanQoheleth Yes, but I don't see how that warrants deleting the comments. They're usually not saying anything disrespectful and I've yet to hear Bishop Barron respond to the argument that most of our great saints of the past centuries were extremists by these standards. Don't get me wrong, I like the Bishop a lot, and maybe wouldn't agree with some knee-jerk reactions radtrads have, I just don't like the censorship.
@@EuropeanQoheleth Christ was a bit too much of a complainer as well. He was so into rules and how to live... very rigid. I'm happy the church is more like you now. The church has "progressed".
We are supposed to become as one, in unity with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. St. Paul put it thus. Be of "one" mind. Not flying off madly in all directions! Evil flourishes in disunity and faulty logic. Remember, Christ will be with us till the end of the age. He told us so. Let us trust in that. Pray and let us have Faith, hope and love in Christ. Amen.
Barron just threw me onto my own bottom 9:00. Thank you for the wake up.
that is some serious humility - wow - God bless you
The good Bishop went hard 💪
The issue is simply to ask the question,
'What has been the fruits of Vatican 2 and other initiatives of our Church since the 1960's?'
What really has been happening, in spite of all this activity, is that church attendance has gone down by over 70% with even those still attending rejecting some articles on faith and morals. The Church has not grown but dwindled: That is the issue that needs to be addressed.
>>>
Exactly. Have you watched The Mass of the Ages Trilogy? It will lay this all out. 😢
Personally, instead of a “well you’re burning the house down” dismissal of those who critique Vatican 2, which I certainly get, a very thoughtful and dispassionate analysis about objections that the Lefevrists have with the council would do far more to help the disunity among conservatives in the Church.
I came into the Church in 1971. I went to a parish where they sang popular culture songs from the Supremes and Motown, Peter, Paul and Mary etc.
Me too and I loved it ;) 😉
I did not like it. Why go to church to hear the popular radio songs. Thankfully this didn’t last long.
Flip side of the obedience coin is the solicitude and care a bishop owes to his priest, but that side of the equation seems to be forgotten entirely especially when a priest looses his utilitarian value in the eyes of the bishop
Excellent as always Bishop!
Bishop Barron, I would first like to say that your talks have inspired me more as a catholic (not a good one) than anyone else I can think of. I continuously send your videos to my son who left the church as a young adult (a graduate of Holy Cross college who radically turned) which saddened me for his sake very much.
Can you comment on the many thousands of nuns who left the church after Vatican II? Admittedly, I am uneducated on Vatican II but years ago watching almost all of the nuns from my catholic school leave the church was amazing to me (not in a good way). I apologize if you addressed this elsewhere in these comments.
I 100% agree they are fundamentally adopting a Protestant way of thinking. I’m sure Luther thought of himself as a “traditional Catholic”
My Lord Bishop, it grieves my heart to see our own brothers and sisters doing the job of defaming the Church, even better than the atheists. To what extent can anyone legitimately claim that Vatican ll brought no value to the Church? It is a completely different matter to argue that the implementation of the proceedings of the Council was rather poor in some localities, than to claim that the entire Council is without any merit, whatsoever. "There's a name for that mindset: it's called Protestantism."
Brilliantly said Bishop. Thank you for this!
My greatest repeating irritation with those against the changes of Vatican 2 is the desire to go back to the Latin mass. One very vocal and popular U Tube critic stated that Latin carried more spiritual authority and power than English as an example. What Rot! If it were true then we should be forced to back to Aramaic. How could any language carry more force than what Jesus and His disciples used? We changed from Latin to local languages so more people could know what was being said during the mass and during official rites.
Latin was the language spoken by the Emperors Diocelien Nero it was Romes official language ! 💟
I
Important fact: The first mass of chinese language was celebrated in 17th by missionaries in asia.
As an asian, I’m feeling reluctant when some of american traditionalists excessively emphasise latin language in liturgy. The very reason why latin had been central language of church was all of your (western) european languages are kind of ‘dialect’ of latin. But the Catholic church is Catholic(=universal) so it must be exoteric to every nations, every cultures, not discriminating the outside of europe, asian, african, and every other indigenous people. Sometimes I think their obsession to latin and other ‘classical european’ stuffs is just kinda manifestation of western supremacism.
@@sweetwinterpear Hi thanks for this valuable information ! My parents were raised in Church ruled area under Vatican 1 the schools were all with the nuns and brothers and to learn Latin was obligatory because of this . Today no one teaches Latin in primary elementary schools. Pope Francis has emphasised that mass is to be made For the People ! his words .To him it has to be fair for everyone to understand ! The Church has left people Latin masses it is not condemned but optional 💟
Totally agree!
Thank you so much for this, Bishop! I so appreciate your exhortation against opposing Vatican II. I think your point that we should not put our personal preferences above Church authorities’ decisions in this council is very well put.
As someone who accepts the Council and engages regularly with those who reject it in whole or in part, I don't think these videos are getting to the heart of the controversy. There certainly are simple, unsophisticated critiques of the Council that show a Western bias and mindset. The Bishop makes an excellent point of flourishing Christian communities in Asia and Africa, where martyrs are being made as we speak. But the most PRINCIPLED critiques of the Council have to do with how the Church has yet to account for the DRAMATIC difference in formulation between documents like Dignitatis Humanae and preconciliar papal teaching on religious liberty. It's almost taboo to even point out how seemingly incompatible those teachings are and the Church has yet to explain how they belong to the same inerrant magisterium. It undermines the magisterium to say that the Church evolved (because that raises the question of how much more can "evolve" doctrinally, even to a teaching that sounds on its face the utter opposite of what came before, which is contrary to truth) and it feels like gas lighting to say that "mere reformulation" was the project of the Council, when we got some serious developments with Dignitatis Humanae among others and Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. Respectfully, I must confess that major developments were made, and this cannot be denied without sounding strange. I submit to the VII teaching and even love some of its renewed emphasis on the universal call to holiness and yes, even the beautiful reflection on the dignity of man and Christ revealing man to himself in the modern world, but there are questions. Yet there still remains the tension between major social doctrines which came before the Council with just as much authority.
I wouldn't speak of change, but rather of development. John Henry Newman lays out how and why this is possible in regard to the doctrinal teachings of the Church. He proposes seven criteria by which we can distinguish a legitimate development from a betrayal or a corruption. Take a look at these and then apply them to, say, Dignitatis humanae.
I have sat through countless hours of your videos, seen you speak in person and read three of your books. I have never heard you get so worked up about anything as you do against the so called Rad Trads. Not the sex abuse scandal, abortion, the Vatican bank scandal, heretical priests, etc.
Vatican II certainly was a legitimate Council and carries with it all the weight as any other council. But you said it yourself, the expanded room for interpretation opened a wide door, much like the way to perdition, or in this case protestantism. I'll take the un-hunky-dory pre vatican II church.
I've understand many traditional leaning Catholics, many young and starting families or with small children, don't like the way people implemented Vatican II. For example, modern Masses and songs are just not as beautiful as the Latin Mass. The prayers are not as extensive. Some of it is just preference but there is this idea that V2 modernized the Church in a way that is not always desirable, has led to a wishy washy type of Catholicism, and hasn't been helpful in maintaining cradle Catholics and evangelizing new ones. Again I think most wouldn't necessarily disagree with Vatican II, but many don't like the way it's been played out.
That is because the Church refused to say anything as the culture slipped into depravity and the Church so inherited its fruit. We can not go backwards, the past is forever set and forever out of reach. We must work with where we are and trust in God to guide the Church as He always has and always will. This is His Church, we are simply its caretakers and His humble servants.
Music is subjective. And the music you found so beautiful wouldn't have even been available to all Catholics through out time. Not to mention, as Bishop Barron points out, the growth in other countries which use their own kinds of music. And what if the church just modernized to be more modern? Wouldn't be the first time. We are way past house churches. We use baptism fonts. Churches have carpet. There is Gothic style or Baroque. Which of these is more holy? I'm not sure what you believe is "wishy washy". The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
@@cheapshot2842 Very well said! :-)
@Kristenne Reidy the problem is that you believe that the Latin mass you attend to today, is the same as it was pre-VII, which is not the case. Unless you go to a schismatic church that isn't recognized by the Catholic Church. Read VII.
Whether a preference for the extraordinary or ordinary mass, it matters not, since any Catholic can participate in which ever they feel the most comfortable with.
What I do have a problem with, it the catechism of children, and how much of it has been dumbed down. If mass and its meaning were explained to children, then I don't think you would have as much of a "wishy washy type of Catholicism".
That being said, let's also be real, for quite some time, some people only went to mass on Sundays as a social gathering, and during the mass discussed politics, business or just gossiped. It's nice to idealize the past and think that the churches were full because people were pious, or because the mass was beautiful and they wanted to commune with God, but it just isn't accurate. Many people in the past had to work on Sundays and only went to mass for the "big events" like Christmas, Easter, funerals or baptisms. Society has changed, but humans haven't.
@@cheapshot2842 I would not be so fast to say house Churches are a thing of the past. Where there is persecution there will likely be house Churches.
It is RIDICULOUS to separate in a sharp way the Council from the Council "implementation" because the Council implementation was done by EXACTLY the same 2500 bishops (or under their guidance) that did the Council documents. I saw several times Bishop Barron blaming Archbishop Mayer passing as "the disaster!" that cause the very bad implementation in USA. How many American bishops attend the Council ? And the passing of ONE of them cause such a failure? Come on! This is REALLY a single cause fallacy. I strongly think we need more to handle this as a "questio disputata" and consider SERIOUSLY the other point of view. I do not see many asking for a repudiation of the Council, or blaming it as the single cause of every problem, but a mature discussion about controversial issues on it (i.e Liberty of Religion) is valid without becoming "protestant". Such an accusation abort any fruitful discussion.
I have seen many unfortunately. They do not realize that they are heading the same way as so many before them. Study the history of the Church, there are many angry dead movements and many tragically willfully seperate themselves from Christ's Church over such disagreements. If you see any please for the sake of their souls, warn them, schism if unrepented only leads to death. Please be careful, if this escalates, do not join any who refuse to obey, I desperately do not want to see so many who clearly love the Church to march off to destruction.
God bless you.
I was born and raised in Africa. I’ve been Catholic my whole life and no bishop, I know you’ve in Africa for a week or two but even there ,the Church is developing the same syndrome and faces the very similar issues on a minor scale .In Africa Catholic Church is still the Church that loses the most of its adherents than any other Church and it’s also the biggest one with the least theologically educated adherents. The church is sinking. What makes Bishop Barron thinks that what is happening in the west will not soon happen elsewhere?
The growing number of Catholics in Africa is just due to general growth in population. The attendance and the zeal of Catholics out there are somewhat the very last fruits of the great Europeans missionaries and evangelists of the 19 th century. I lived in a 90% Christian Country of 85 millions people from which half are Catholics (it was 80% in the 80s) and they didn’t even bother teach basic Catholic teachings in Catholic Schools.
I am also not from the West and I agree that what’s happening in the west will spread around the world. But calling into question a legitimate and highly authoritative ecumenical council will lend the cause less credibility, not more. It will cause division in the present church, instead of establishing continuity with the long-standing tradition of the pre-VII church. Everyone’s appalled at this great apostasy, the corruption, etc. But the problem is that those who are most dedicated to fixing the problem are falling into what is, quite honestly, an un-Catholic strategy which is destined to fail.
Crystelle Saleh on that I agree with you. I wasn’t questioning the legitimacy of the Second Vatican council at all just the naive view that the Church is just fine elsewhere. I’m very pro 2nd Vatican. And for those Catholics who oppose what they perceived as an heresy (like the Last council) My advice is we cannot fight a so-called heresy with heretical methods
ɪ'ᴍ ᴛɪʀᴇᴅ ᴏғ ᴛʜɪs ᴄʜᴜʀᴄʜ “we cannot fight so-called heresy with heretical methods” amen!
Crystelle Saleh yes my dearest that is unfortunately what is happening. In the bishop Barron brilliantly said they somehow became Protestants you know
I think many people in the West think Vatican II is "working" because now people in Africa can dance during the liturgy. The evangelisation of Africa occurred much before VII.
I love you Bishop, but I'm pretty sure I can claim the current USCCB to be a total disaster, without being an extremist.
Come on, friend. You don't think that comment is just a tad over the top?!
You all knew about McCarrick. But none of you spoke out. So yes, a total disaster.
@@BishopBarron Over the top, ??? you mean a group of men who do not even have the courage to call out and excommunicate men like Cuomo, Biden, Durbin who supported abortion up to the 9th month ...
As a recently reconciled Catholic I get so discouraged when I come across these TH-cam voices that speak so badly about the Church and the Pope. Are we not called to obedience, humility and grace?
Are we speaking here of the Vatican 2 which taught: Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites. Or the Vatican 2 which also taught: Finally, there must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing. I'm pretty active in the "traditionalist" community and I know of no one who has a problem with these teachings of Vatican 2.
There's also a sort of temptation to look at the past as it was an ideal and lost reality (the good old timea) vs today.
blessings to all
By their logic, the 5th Latrian council was bad because Matin Luther nailed his thesis to the doors the next year.
We the clergy must accept responsibility and repent. Period.
As for the laity, like the people of Israel expecting that the Messiah will be born in their family, each family must pray that God may help them to raise at least one of their children for priesthood or for religious life, who will be a saint and a remedy for the present crisis. Good priests usually come from families where deep foundations of faith are laid. Praying for the whole Church, being good examples, resisting wrong doctrines, being formed in the true faith of the Church etc are also necessary.
"each family must pray that God may help them to raise at least one of their children for priesthood or for religious life"
each family must pray that they go to heaven
" My recommendation for moving forward in our mission is to read closely the documents of Vatican II, and to read them in community and with charity." thanks Bishop Barron I loved the promise of Vatican 11 but sadly watched the demise of that promise. Faith in the Magesterium is gone, my faith in God is never stronger. Sad Australian Catholic.
Thank you Bishop!
Bishop, please comment on the recent document, Motu Proprio - there is much controversy, and unfortunately, very negative commentary toward Pope Francis.
5:23 _"Now are there limits to it sure. You don't obey someone who's commanding you to do something that's intrinsically evil. So you've got an authority figure and you're beholden to him but if he's telling you to do something that you know to be morally objectionable of course there's a limit to that obedience."_
I'm glad the Bishop agrees that the faithful are not obligated to obey prelates who attempt to force the faithful to receive communion in the hand since the Church's Tradition condemns such a practice.
*St. Basil the Great, Doctor of the Church (330-379)* considered Communion in the hand so irregular that he did not hesitate to consider it a grave fault.
*The Council of Saragossa (380):* Excommunicated anyone who dared continue receiving Holy Communion by hand. This was confirmed by the Synod of Toledo.
*The Synod of Rouen (650):* Condemned Communion in the hand to halt widespread abuses that occurred from this practice, and as a safeguard against sacrilege. _“Do not put the Eucharist in the hands of any layman or laywoman but only in their mouths.”_
*6th Ecumenical Council, at Constantinople (680-681):* Forbade the faithful to take the Sacred Host in their hand, threatening transgressors with excommunication.
*St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274):* _"Out of reverence towards this Sacrament [the Holy Eucharist], nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest's hands, for touching this Sacrament." (Summa Theologica, Part III, Q. 82, Art. 3, Rep. Obj. 8.)_
*The Council of Trent (1545-1565):* _"The fact that only the priest gives Holy Communion with his consecrated hands is an Apostolic Tradition."_
*Pope Paul VI (1963-1978):* "This method [on the tongue] must be retained." (Memoriale Domini)_
*Pope John Paul II:* _"To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained." (Dominicae Cenae, 11)_
*Saint Leo the Great* read the sixth chapter of Saint John's Gospel as referring to the Eucharist (as all the Church Fathers did). In a preserved sermon on John 6 (Sermon 9), Saint Leo says: _"Hoc enim ore sumitur quod fide creditur" (Serm. 91.3)._ This is translated strictly as: _“This indeed is received by means of the mouth which we believe by means of faith"._ "Ore" is here in the ablative and in the context it denotes instrumentation. So then, the mouth is the means by which the Holy Eucharist is received.
You are so tone deaf to what he (Barron) is saying! All of what you point out may be true, and maybe you have a point that it would be better to receive on the tongue. But this has NOTHING to do with the Magisterium of Vatican II. The Second Vatican Council did not tell bishops and priests to allow the congregation to receive in the hands. What it did say about the Eucharist, is that the Eucharist is the source, summit, and center of the life of the Church...
@@joshuamoore8278 But none of these things is an Essential element of the Liturgy. None of what I was replying to is an infallible teaching of the Faith, applying to all people at all times. Was Pope Benedict or St. JPII, or Pope Francis doing something sacrilegious or wrong when he celebrated Mass versus populum? How can a person claim to be Catholic and even think such a ridiculous thing?
I suppose you would have to go back to the original Eucharistic text. Don't overthink it otherwise you stray into puratanism.
@@joshuamoore8278 But what does that prove? There are lots of practices that the Church has changed over her long history. These "practices" are not essential to the Faith. They are not like the Assumption of Mary or the real, true, and substantial presence in the Eucharist. They're not doctrines relating to the deposit of Faith. These practices are all matters of discipline. If they were abuses, that would be different. The Church has the authority to decide what the CURRENT discipline is regarding communion in the hand, etc. NOT you or me----the Church. And when you say stuff like well I believe what earlier popes said about some practice and I reject (or refuse to accept) the current discipline of Church practices, you are separating yourself from the Body of Christ, making yourself a Protestant. When you pick and choose what you will accept and what you won't, that's called Protestantism. You don't need to justify anything, just accept with your heart and mind what the Church decides in matters of discipline.
LUMEN GENTIUM 25! Rightist conservatives and leftist liberals BOTH wrongly think they can dissent against papal teaching and Vatican II documents - they say "Paul corrected Peter in the Gospels". NO! St. Paul corrected Peter's behavior, not his teaching! Just like Lumen Gentium 25 maintains, St. Paul owed "religious submission of mind and will" to Peter's teaching. Peter has the keys, not Paul. Liberals NEED to accept the teaching of JPII and BXVI! Conservatives NEED to accept the teaching of Francis! Let's get with it, Catholics! We are ONE Church. Don't let political divisions cause division in the Church! Read Lumen Gentium 25 - this section especially:
"This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."
Thank you so much for this 😄
@@tomgreene2282 God loved us so much He sent His beloved son to die for our sins . God loves us so much He wants all to be saved for all are His children! God forgives us over and over because we are all sinners ! God gave St Faustina the Chaplet of Divine Mercy to save souls because of His mercy . He gave us a time of mercy knowing this time would be a very sinful one and all deserve salvation. Vatican 2 was very aware of this time of mercy yet many do not comprehend. One can judge an action but cannot judge a man's heart for this belongs to God alone !
@@tomgreene2282 Law yes the commandements , human law a man's judgment based on a fair trial . We are all sinners striving to fallow God's commandments even St Faustina without God's grace would return to her old self she had to beg Him back ! People forget that where sin abounds so does God's grace ! Vatican 2 has nothing to do with what the world has become was or is to come . Rad trads refuse to acknowledge the evil that was present 1000s of pedo Priests ,the horrors of the past under Vatican 1. They think the Latin mass will bring back everything. Most people rebelled against extremism both in the Puritan Protestant Church and Catholic Church tired of hypocrisy they voted it out for the sexual revolution of the hippies . Vatican 2 has nothing to do with this !
@@tomgreene2282 Tom I just watched a great video with Gabe at Ascension Presents channel about homosexuality . Many of us are ignorant in the way of saying things when it comes to sin . We yes have to use the law but it's the way we say things to others . We cannot dismiss Jesus Christ greatest commandment love .
@@tomgreene2282 I did find some discussions regarding his book , which I will listen to . I've been watching Fr Alard from Divine Mercy his videos are long but so interesting! (I just had to get out of there ! 😨👽😵)They don't even understand what you write about...There is so much ignorance in this world! I never was kind with words and could be as vile but our Lord is showing me something different! How can anyone pray with such hatred towards anyone is beyond me ...🐉
Bishop Barron got it so right. Not because one horrible thing happens in one place, it must be logically happening everywhere. Indeed, we can't deny how the Euro-American Church is experiencing great problems and concern is warranted, but we should know that Catholicism has long gone beyond the geographical and cultural borders of the West. The problems in the West should not be the lens with which they view the global Church.
Long live Vatican II!
Long live our Holy Father Pope Francis!
Long live our beautiful, one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church!!
Thank you Bishop Barron!
I think we really must listen to, read him, and obey our Holy Father! God loves obedience so much.
Pope Francis is continually teaching us, as you have said, and we should and must obey him, learn from him and be humble.
I would also add, read the text in its historical context. So 1962, not even 20 years after WWII, when people "discovered" concentration and extermination camps on an industrial level. I don't know how priests were able to address this with victims, family of victims, people having participated closely or from afar... A reminder, many people who lived through WWII also lived through WWI... And then there's the nuclear threat with the Cold War, people being told every day that life on Earth could end... At the same time, the Decolonization wars, and all the horrors that brought...
So I firmly believe also that VII was also a way to address these issues.
I really have a hard time with people stating that the Church was better off before VII, as they are truly ignoring facts and history. To think that VII created the decline in the Church in the "west", is ignoring that the seeds of this decline had been planted over 100 years beforehand.
I can’t remember which Church Father suggested that the gleaming clothes of Christ in the Transfiguration were symbolic of the Church, but I was very struck by the suggestion. The outward form - in the case of liturgy - is irrelevant if it doesn’t contain the Real Presence. We should be able to discern the outline of the true Christ from the way that the Church comports herself - if the Church isn’t inhabited by Christ, then the outer garments are no more than a heap of rags on the floor, however apparently decorative. Whether it’s the OF or EF is irrelevant: both can contain the true presence which is both sacramental and visible in the lives of the faithful.
Ok, Bishop Barron, but doesn’t it seem now, 10 months later since this recording was made, that those who attend Latin mass, are being terribly punished with Motu Proprio? Taking away a form of the mass that has been existence the longest, and deeply revered by those
who attend, will not help the church achieve the balance she is looking for. Now you will have a lot of angry, seething, and misunderstood people who truly love, and are dedicated to their faith. This is very difficult for me to understand, when the punishment is not commensurate with their more extreme exhorts.
Really and truly, I don’t understand why conservative viewpoints and ideologies are being blamed on the extraordinary form, which has been around for so long, and never has the Latin mass been so harshly manipulated as now. Please help your listeners understand.
FYI-I am not a Latin mass attendee, regularly.
Who is going to fix the things that need fixing?
Good question........and why haven’t things been fixed already?
Why don't you?
I go to the TLM because it is the Mass of all ages and also the Vatican II has had terrible consequences. For instances, look at the Church now why is that the Church is not thriving; Catholic schools, convents, and seminaries are closing and there are very few religious vocations . For the Vatican II Council, Pope John XXII brought in Lutheran and other Protestant sects to make the Catholicism more ecumenical. Call me an extremists, but prefer the Traditional Latin Mass over the Novus Order Mass.