“Pope Francis and Vatican II” (2020 Napa Institute Keynote)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ส.ค. 2020
- Friends, some Catholics in America today are increasingly vocal in their attacks on the Second Vatican Council-an ecumenical council of the Church summoned and presided over by the successor of Peter. How should we understand this disturbing trend?
In this keynote talk from the 2020 Napa Institute, I trace the missionary purpose of Vatican II from the conciliar texts themselves, through the New Evangelization, and finally to the Magisterium of Pope Francis, whose influences situate him in a particular camp in this history.
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I could listen to Bishop Barron all day long. And sometimes I do!
Me too!!
Absolutely. I agree 💯
Thanks Bishop Barron for engaging the conversation. Taylor Marshall, Church Militant, Tim Gordon and the like are enormously influential voices in the church. I listen to them all regularly and I watch almost all of your videos. You offer a healthy balance to the conversations. Thanks. What more can be done to fill the beige void in our hearts. Mine included. I’ve explored The Eastern Orthodox Churches and participated in there beautiful Divine Liturgies to help me. I want the West to be the “beautiful” you claim she is but on the regular day in and day out parish, that’s not what I (we) see. Thanks again for all you do to engage the culture. Pax Vobiscum
Tim Gordon, from what I understand, believes the VII documents are completely orthodox, it's just the implementation that was bad. This is very different to Dr Marshall, who, from what I understand, believes the VII documents themselves have errors.
I was on the fringe and now I’m Catholic thanks to what bishop Barron is talking about here. I might not agree on absolutely everything pope Francis says or does, but I absolutely respect and love him as our Pope and as the successor of Peter. I might never have understood Catholicism if it wasn’t for his very open and loving attitude which was attractive to me when I was standing on the outside looking in. Personally I love everything medieval and I don’t mind hiding behind walls, but I think that saving souls is more important. Thank you so much for this video, Bishop Barron. God bless you.
Thank you, Bishop Barron, for your faithful optimism for the Holy Catholic Church! I enjoyed your humorous query about whether the Holy Spirit slept through the years of 1962-1965. Certainly, the documents of Vatican II were developed under the inspiration and grace of the Holy Spirit! it's exactly why I believe the Church may stumble at times, with immorality of clergy, lack of faith and leadership from some of the hierarchy. and so on. I trust in the Holy Spirit to still be influencing the Church as a whole. There have been arguments and difficulties throughout Church history, and I believe the Church will survive and continue to grow in faithfulness. Jesus promised us.
Thank you so much Bishop for giving light about the Council to all the faithful. Catholics need it so much!
Superb. Thank you Father Robert Barron. Sadly, it seems to me that many of the public comments completely miss the message of his video. As Father said, we baptized are charged with bringing the light of Christ to the fringes of society. Our doors are open to all and closed to none.
Awesome - better put the coffee on 😊
We didn't get so much liturgical craziness in Asia after the Council. But religious relativism has devastated our evangelistic fervour
I am regaining my love and respect for Bishop Barron in such a powerful way! I would have tried to uncover the reasons in the shadows for the voices against Vatican Ii and Pope Francis personally, but Bishop directed us to the light. Thank you. Be blessed.
Martin - the reason is logic itself. I would have said the same thing as you here ten years ago. But the more I studied, read historical papal documents, the easier it was to see that there is a very real riff and discontinuity. In the end, because I am a rational human being, I am by necessity being forced to side with either post V2 line of thought, or pre. They are not the same, so one simply have a choice to make. For me, why would I follow a novel 2% that was sprung from the idealistic age of hippies in the 60s which was incongruent with the historical? The catholic church has never been a "flavor of the day" institution.
“What about Chalcedon? 65%? What about the Nicene Creed?” Loved that line
J U just to clarify, it’s not that Hell will never prevails against the gates of the Church. It’s the Church who will prevail against the gates of Hell. I think you have switched who is offensive and defensive in the analogy.
Pfft you guys still do the council of Nicene? I bet you kids never heard of the council of Constantinople
First we overlook evil, then we permit evil, then we legalize evil, then we promote evil, then we celebrate evil, then we persecute those who still call it evil. "Evil may have it's hour, but God will have His Day." -Archbishop Fullton J. Sheen. (I so dearly miss this man, we need more like him."
Yes Fulton Sheen was a great man of prayer !
Well said my friend, This Bishop Barron is in a different ball park to the Heavenly Bishop Fulton Sheen. He shouldn't even be a priest let alone a Bishop.
Wayne - here is a quote from venerable Fulton Sheen -when he looked back on his life and remembered;
Every afternoon about five-thirty, when i was studying for the priesthood in St Paul's seminary,the spiritual director would give a conference.
I was paying the usual amount of attention this particular day,when suddenly i stopped listening.
my mind seemed to be suffused with light,I heard not a word he uttered,but during that experience---I don't know how long it lasted-there came to me an illumination of soul, a light that suffused my intellect, bringing with it an overwhelming conviction of the certitude of the Faith.
The Creed and the affirmation " I believe " became not only an intellectual assent: I was momentarily possesses of the absolute and irrefutable character of Faith.
He never missed an hour of prayer before THE BLESSED SACRAMENT from that time to the day of his death.
What more can I say!
Peter J thank you for that quote 'beautiful' as I read it I got chills as if a presence had suddenly come over me, very moving, Thank God for people who still listened to Fulton Sheen and Thank God for Fulton Sheen. 🙏🏼
Wayne, in the confusing age we live in , on what do believe , or where have all our cetaintes gone- a quote from Fulton SHeen about the Vatican Council;
To be part of that Council, to mingle with more than 2000 bishops from different nationalities and cultures, and to sing the Creed together with them each morning is
A Council of Nations which would make the United Nations blush for want of a common commitment.
Wayne ,If , we Catholics, would again pray and believe the Creed , we would once again , become strong in our Faith-THE WONDERFUL CREED OF CHRISTENDOM.
To know what the Ancient Catholic Church ,believed , at all times and in all places, will give us security in this life and Eternal life in the next.
I am a new to the Catholic Church . Baptist background . and thank God for Bishop Barrons sane and sensible talks . Listened to dr Taylor and co and think it’s best I subscribe to bishop baron and not dr Taylor .. U.K. ...
You’re completely right. You should subscribe to Bishop Barron instead. On the same line, you can also follow Matt Fradd, Scott Hahn, Fr Mike Schmitz. May God bless your journey friend!
Bishop Barron's words are soothing and enlightening. When I hear Taylor Marshall his words tend to be venomous in nature.
Ralph Soothing words while the world burns
I've learned more from Taylor Marshall than I learned from my V2 catechism classes. (I sat in on an RCIA class in my parish years ago, and it was watered-down mush.) Even if you don't like Marshall's approach, he's not afraid to be Catholic, unlike most of the clergy I've seen throughout my life. If you want hard-hitting, courageous priests, I highly recommend Fr. James Altman (St James the Less, LaCrosse, WI), Fr. Richard Heilman, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, and Fr. Chris Alar (Marian Fathers of the Immaculate Conception) - his homilies are great, and he teaches about the faith live on Saturdays at 11am Eastern on TH-cam (Divine Mercy Official). Welcome and God bless you.
@@greenacresgirl6259 So sad when the religious are more concerned about how someone sounds than someone who's not afraid to speak the cold hard truth. Catholicism is not your Children's bubble gum flavored Tylenol.
Thank you Bishop Barron for this beautiful, interesting and truthful talk.. I have never heard Vatican II explained the ways you have done it today, I have never been against Vatican II as it is a Church Council; However, I have always questioned the implementation of the Council. Your argument today has shown me how to defend that position. God bless you for the great work you are doing on behalf of our Church.
Thankyou Bishop. When I started listening and learning about Balthazar, I then did revisit the ideas that some were saying regarding our current Pope and now I realize that our present Pope is meeting those in the fringes and on their terms and finding the beauty and the good to share with us as an example of how to evangelise those who know nothing about Catholicism and Jesus.
Mass is not for evangelization. Mass is for the worship of God and spiritual feeding of faithful. Evangelization happens outside of Mass, in the daily lives of the faithful. Instead of more Protestants coming to Catholicism, more Catholics have left the church since V2. That should mean something to church.
Listened to you again this evening…..just amazing…..I sometimes forget how clear and totally insightful you are…..a very clear response to some agitated voices on you tube who are unfortunately addicted to controversy….thank you Father Barron…..in some ways you remind me of Father Wojtyla
I was born in 72. I read LUMEN GENTIUM and DEI VERBUM for the very first time...I cried with joy, because they capture the call to mission, the return to original Grace and annointing of who we are and why we exist as a Church. If we keep looking back wishing for an age gone we lose sight of the blessings God wishes to bestow upon us today! God makes ALL THINGS NEW! Praise be Jesus Christ!
We must learn from Biblical history and avoid repeating what the People of Israel did; avoid becoming like the Pharisees and Saducees who Jesus challenged.
May we submit to His Divine Will and receive His Divine Mercy and repent for our bitterness, resentment and judgmental hearts.
Very well said I agree!
Well said!
Don't know anything about these books. Also born in 72. And I truly don't get it. All this fuss about the Vatican II. I devoutly receive communion in my hands as I was tought as a child doing her First Holy Communion
Vanessa Du Preez You were taught wrong, the Holy Spirit guided the church to only allow communion to be received on the tongue, one cannot receive the communion reverently and devoutly when they do so as an act of rebellion against the traditions of the church.
@@lukebrady8966 and that is how I will continue to do it until. Y Pope tells my Cardinal to tell my diocese differently. Until then I will stand behind Pope Francis 100%
Thank you for this video bishop, we have been waiting for it for a while now.
LOVED THIS!!! I've been disturbed by many TH-cam influencers who slam Pope Francis, Bishop Barron, V2 etc - this talk settles me a great deal and calms the noise in my Spirit. THANK YOU Bishop Barron! God Bless.
That noise is the Holy Spirit trying to wake you up.You know deep down something is not right .Pray the rosary pray for discernment. This is all misdirection the church has been infiltrated and needs to clean house so it can be respected again.God works through the evil but right now the garden is being destroyed by weeds .
@@tomthx5804 So everything is all good in the church .Business as usual .Ok stay in you're fantasy .We are on the brink Satan has been unleashed .Deception and pride are his biggest tools .Dont get me wrong God works through all of it but the garbage bishops and laity in our church need to be put on blast .Pope Francis sides with NATO and talks down the most pro life president we have .There is something very wrong about that .I have faith in the church and respect the authority of apostolic succession that came directly from Jesus but we have had bad popes before God will work through it but to blindly follow and think it's all good is stupidity on a major level.Abortion is my litmus test.Peace be with you and pray the rosary every day .The church is the moral compass of the world and it is looked on as a joke because of all the scandals and lack of accountability. I have a very hard time defending my faith.I have gone to the traditionalist catholic church and I will ne er look back fssp latin mass .
@@tomthx5804 and isn't it odd Tom that Taylor's book is entitled "Infiltration". Seems he is the Infiltration and a form of the Smoke of Satan himself. Yikes - scary. As always, appreciate your comments.
@@markgonzales8778 remember that division is the mark of Satan, and Taylor has done a good job of creating much division among Catholics. Fortunately I only put my toe into the Taylor Marshall water- and immediately knew it was ominous by the inflated claims he was making, not in humility and a spirit for Truth, but in Pride and an almost glee and spirit of Drama. Plus it's a money-maker for him, and fame, and now he's all about Donald Trump. Way too much distraction and drama for me - I'll walk with Jesus and in line with the Pope and His Church, and in the manner and guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Blessed Virgin Mary. I don't need Taylor's advice or direction whatsoever. I'm lucky to live in London where we have an abundance of Latin Mass offerings. Peace to you.
@@markgonzales8778 Why do you have a hard time defending your faith? Maybe you're not grounded enough in it. There will always be scandal and trouble in the church - your job is to walk in Faith and not engage in the drama. I can see you're a devoted follower of Taylor, referencing Pope Francis and Donald Trump -that was one of Taylor's latest uploads. Disengaged from the Taylor mean-girls drama and just get your spirit settled in Jesus, Mary, the Rosary, obedience toward the Pope, respect for good men like Bishop Barron - BE HUMBLE, and prayerful, and you'll be just fine and well able to defend the Catholic Church- and no, it is not looked on as a joke.....can you honestly assess the state of the Catholic Church with well over 1 billion Catholics world-wide and think for a second that you can say you know the actual state of the Church? You don't have that kind of vision.
What a treasure trove of knowledge. Thank God for Bishop Baron! Grateful for this enlightening talk. As a Layman I would never be able to make the connection and clearly appreciate the significance of the Vatican II in our lives as Christians-which
reiterates God's call for all of us to be His missionaries in the world.
Bishop Baron when I listen to you I hear truth and love. When on occasion I tune into Taylor Marshal I hear mostly accusation and division. I don’t know what can be done about the divisive voices which have a captive audience. It bothers me when they choose to protest and insult the true Shepard’s of the church including Pope Francis. It is hard to watch this play out without feeling scared that the dark forces will succeed in dividing the faithful into camps against each other. Thank you for being such an beacon of light and truth.
Laudetur Jesus Christus When personal liturgical preferences and conspiracy theories are a major part of a systematic attack on the The Church I Love and Shepard’s I respect Taylor Marshal and his minions lose all my respect. I stand by my statement when you make accusation and division your mainstay you are working from the wrong playbook.
Thank you so much Bishop Barron! Prayers from India!
Thank you Bishop Barron, as I interact with Catholic speakers on social media, it disheartens me that so many ( including priests) seem to have an agenda that displays to those of us yearning to learn how to be better at being an evangelistic Catholic, that the Church is all about ‘navel - gazing’. Our Beloved Church is truly in crisis in our world... the secularist world, satan itself, will tear her down by fragmenting the Church from within, it’s time to ‘go out and be the light to the nations’ together, not bickering like self centred siblings.
‘You are Peter, and on this rock I build my Church, and not even the gates of hell will prevail against it’ It is God’s Will yhat we make His agenda the ONLY agenda’
Thank you! I shared it. I want to listen again tomorrow. It's almost midnight and I enjoyed the talk. There is a problem not just in America with Catholics attacking Pope Francis and Vatican II - the things I've seen, heard and read (online) is so disturbing. Thank you for your talk.
Bishop, thank you for sharing your concern about voices speaking against the legitimacy of the V2. It is a serious issue and you give a beautiful and passionate defense of the council. I myself have read the documents many times over the years. I have found them to be beautiful and reassuring for my faith in Jesus Christ and his Church. But, unfortunately, something very very terrible happened on the road to implementation of the "spirit" of V2. It has been (almost) a universal disaster! People left in great numbers. Priests and nuns left in great numbers. I too remember the Clown Masses and the Poka Masses. It is no small miracle I am a Catholic today but by the grace of God and the simple faith of my mother. Is it not understandable why people would question the council's legitimacy? Catechesis went from teaching about salvation history and our need for Jesus Christ to focusing on the need to just be "nice person". We are called to evangelize and spread the Gospel, but are told there are "many ways" to heaven. The liturgy was "updated" to the point 75% of Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence. Corruption and lack of accountability in the Church hierarchy has almost destroyed any moral authority the Church once held (still waiting on the report on McCarrick due last year from the Vatican). JPII and Benedict XVI worked hard to clean up the mess and there are many signs of hope, but serious damage has been done. I love the Church and I know the "gates of hell will not prevail". But I also know we are being purified. I'm not so sure the problem of some Catholics questioning the legitimacy of V2 is the most important thing to be concerned about right now. God Bless you in you ministry.
Couldn’t agree more Andrew! Thanks for putting many of our thoughts into words.
@@tomthx5804 - Yes ,Tom, the Church is always in need of reform ,and it starts with me !
Thank you for making this video, Bishop Barron, and for the outstanding FAQ on Vatican II at Word on Fire. God bless you!
Thank you so much Your Excellency, I have been waiting for your response to this vitriol that recently reared it's ugly head on social media. You were so gracious not to mention them by name. The mission is to Evangelize. "Unity Prevails Over Conflict".
What an awesome way to think.
Dear Bishop Barron I have just recentlly rejoined the catholic church. Thank you for your talk about Vat 2 if you had been against Pope Fances I would have left the faith immediatly. Thankyou so much and go bless you
This video is the perfect invitation to American Catholics to give our misunderstood understanding of who Pope Francis' is a mulligan. I am embarrassed to say I haven't paid too much attention to Pope Francis since he was elected pope -- I listened to this video Bishop Baron fully aware of an uneasy indifference about his papacy. I LOVED Pope Benedict so I probably grieved a little after his resignation and then never reengaged 🤷🏻♀️. I haven't sought out or read anything he has written other than the paraphrases and summaries of others I admire who have been paying better attention than I. What I realize now, regrettably 🤦🏻♀️ is that the little knowledge I do have of our pope has been formed entirely in bits and pieces from the opinions of the most vocal and in this case more traditional (the ones i admire greatly!) voices in the Church. This was SO helpful! Thank you!!!
Thank you - thank you - thank you! I’ve been waiting for several years to hear someone in the Church speak of this divisive and growing problem.
So much to learn from you Bishop Barron and that is why I love listening to you ❤️ God Bless you 🙏
I too lived through the implementation of Vatican II in the United States. It seems like in the US the Council served only to empower liberal Catholics to attempt to revolutionize the Church. Unfortunately, their revolution was not to implement the many good things in Vatican II you pointed out. It was about making the Church politically liberal. I associate Vatican II with the moral relativism that plagues the Church. I think the relativism drove the faithful into the arms of Evangelical Protestant congregations. This then accelerated the political liberalism of the Church. This is evident in how Cardinal Gregory of Washington, D.C. allowed President Biden and Speaker Pelosi use the Church as a back drop to legitimize their views on abortion, gay marriage, critical gender theory, and other political positions abhorrent to Catholic Doctrine. Do you realize that the "Catholic" president of the United States doesn't assert that God made them male and female, that that a family with a mother and a father is not preferable to any other, that abortion through and even immediately after birth is acceptable.
How can a Catholic of good conscience not see the blessing of these heretical positions by Cardinal Gregory to be the absolute height of relativism.
Bishop, I agree with the content of your video, however, it is my opinion that the Church needs to address what I believe has given rise to believer's distrust of the Church. I believe this loss of trust is the precipitating factor that has caused people to question everything. Not only the obvious sin and corruption within those who hold Holy Orders, who make up the magisterium, but also the the massive theological dissent among the clergy. For more than 50 years, faithful Catholics can not count on priests in the parishes to speak with one voice on essential elements of the faith. Obviously, applying THE faith to any given culture takes on various methodologies, but TRUTH is not a variable! When will the hierarchy acknowledge that they are the ones who have created the situation in which faithful Catholics have lost trust! When will Bishops return to being Apostles of Christ ! Instead of being protectionary, self-referential and erudite, our bishops, priests, pope need to “rend their garments” over the pediphilia scandal! When has the heirachy truly exhibited lemenation over the abuse and the theological confusion so often perpetrated by dissenting church leaders? I’m afraid that while I believe the content of your video to be true, you have dismissed faithful Catholic’s legitimate desire for the pastor’s of the Church to be faithful to the gospel and to faithfully shepherd. In essence, you have done the opposite of what you said the council intended. You presented your position with an expectation of the “radtrads” to “come to your position.” I believe that you need to “go to where they are” and first, listen to them directly and then pastor them. This problem wasn’t created over night and the regaining of trust shouldn’t be expected to be regained as easily either. Until the hierarchy gets “it’s own house in order,” trust will remain illusive.
Perfectly said!
Very well said!
I agree!
A one glove fits all approach is not today's worldview - the diversity is extreme - it's hard to keep a steady hand against a "MY needs must be met" attitude. Jesus' two commandments are what matters most - surely when you enter the Lord's house it's all about Him - not what you perceive it should or shouldn't be - it's about illusive humility.
This.
You help us to see the church the way it was meant to be seen. Thank You
Constantly hearing about how it wasnt implemented correctly. I'm genuinely interested: What would the church look like if it were "properly implemented?" Would we still have communion in the hand? (Making it seem like ordinary food and reducing belief in transubstantiation.) Would we still have women all over the alter? (Confusing the women priests issue and helping the secular "theres no difference between girls and boys" agenda.) Would we still have watered down theology and a mass that looks like a protestant service? (I have to pep talk myself at every mass to remind me that there actually is something supernatural going on and we are worshipping God inspite of the fact that nothing in the music, vestments, smells, sounds, etc, supports that idea.) I left the church, like many Gen Xers. I recently returned but I feel like so much is missing. I recently went to a Latin mass and I couldn't believe the difference. It was so respectful, everything drawing your attention to God- not to the priest, not to each other. When they got on their knees for holy communion, you knew people there believed. And there were lots of men, and not just old ones. (There are barely any men at my regular mass so this stuck out to me.) Why did they rip apart that mass? What in the world was wrong with it? I'm not going anywhere but I'm very dissillusioned in the church.
Amy, I found a traditional parish and had the same experience as you! View it as a gift and work very hard to bring others there and to also help promote it! God Bless!
Amy, the Latin Masses are full while the Novus Ordo masses are half empty or sometimes only a handful.
interesting comment. As a man, I notice the lessened appeal of the mass to men. To some extent, but not all, this is due to women running everything and perhaps indirectly influencing the local homilies.
@@Ezekiel336-16 How can you follow it if it's not in the vernacular? You look on the other side of the page and it's in English. Problem solved.
Don't be so subject to your emotions. Thats not what faith is about and its really easy to be fooled into thinking that mass is supposed to make you feel a certain way. Im not judging you, ive been swayed by this in the past too and i ended up leaving the church and eventually returning.
Amen! You cleared up alot Bishop with this talk, and said it clearly in the last few minutes of your talk.
Here's to looking upword and onward! Never backward.
Thank you Bishop. I don't know what the church would do without you. You are a voice of reason in a world that seems to want to confuse things, in our time. God bless you 🙏❤️😇.
It really is a blessing to have someone like him making videos like these. Thanks Bishop Barron
Bishop, I keep wishing that you were my religious teacher back in parochial grade school. I am 55; well, better late than never. God bless you.
I am 63 - and wish the same. Cradle Catholic, but after years of sin and lukewarmness, am now reconciled & just starting out to learn my faith.
Since we are all confessing our age, I’m 66 and am a recently reconciled Catholic after many years of wandering the protestant desert. Bishop Barron has been enormously influential in helping me come home. The Holy Spirit is at work. Us old guys have a job to do!
@Greg Gauthier It is big and also powerful. We may be heading into pretty rough times. Whatever is happening, I'm just thankful that Jesus has given me the time and grace to come back to Him, in line with our Catholic Church and all its problems, and so glad I'm not caught into the TLM/Traditionalist trap of criticism and conspiracy. I look forward to learning and being clear on the beauty of TLM, but more importantly, on the beauty of our wonderful Holy Roman Catholic Church and its unity to Jesus, the Father and the H.S. Happy & grateful!
@@foolonthehill5065 Would be nice if we had an old-guys/gals society of returning Catholics. That could be a lot of fun! LOL. Don't know if you've seen The Journey Home on EWTN - but lots of old shows on TH-cam that are interesting and informative.
The funny/sad/unfortunate part is that although I have had many sinful moments. I "thought", I knew our catholic faith. Of course I knew there was always more to learn. But I have spent a great deal of time, teaching what I now know is "watered down". Frustrating at first and for quite a bit of time; but now I know I/we must be use our new knowledge as a forward step to move/act motivationally/enthuastically/confidently/prayfully forward. God's will be done. Happy Feast of the Assumption!
Fr. Mike Gaitley from Marians of Divine Mercy Stockbridge MA just now put out an excellent video and addresses Vatican ll.
Hope in Mercy.
Worth a listen. God bless.
Joolz JAL Was Vatican II a mistake? Has Pope Francis departed from the teaching of his predecessors? Does the Holy Spirit have something to say about the troubles in the Church and the world today? Fr. Michael Gaitley, MIC, answers these questions and more..
th-cam.com/video/tS6n7NXe6EM/w-d-xo.html
Unfortunately, where has the message of "mercy" gotten us? It is an excuse for an acceptance of every type of sin. Remember, there is an equal balance of mercy and justice/judgement. There may not be as much mercy as we hope for, and many souls may be lost.
Your Excellency, much of what I'm about to say you're keenly aware of, but I'd offer this. I frequently watch the content by many of the actors on social media you're alluding to. I agree with you, we cannot on one hand say the Church is the Church with the authority it carries and then say an Ecumenical council rightly convened and presided over by a Pope is not authoritative. That being said, I'd like to offer why these critics' arguments are finding such an audience.
The people these men are finding an audience with are orphans not only of the "beige catholicism" you're referencing with regards to liturgy, music and architecture, but also of a neutered clergy that repeatedly fails to proclaim Church teaching with verve and conviction. The now ubiquitous, agreeable, smiling, milktoast priest and bishop who dare not cause offense unless it is to finger wag at the "rigidity and clericalism" of devout Catholics, are losing their flocks. We need, and increasingly are demanding, that our priests and bishops be heroes. Strong men, of courage and conviction willing to stand against the storm of the culture and not endlessly bend the knee to it.
I consider myself an intellectual person and spend a lot of time on theology and history and moral philosophy. Those things are important, very important. That's admittedly though, not what first drew me to the faith. What got my foot in the door, if not completely across the threshold, was the sense, provided by art, architecture, liturgy and my interactions with some good priests, that Catholicism was set apart from the world and pulling mankind up to something transcendent. Imagine then my disappointment when I began to encounter the malaise present in great swaths of the Church after my baptism.
A wise person once said to me when speaking about secular political matters, "If you avoid facing an uncomfortable truth because it harms your larger narrative, you surrender it to your opposition, who will use it to lead people to falsehoods." I think this lends itself well to the divide within the Church as well. If we refuse to confront the damage caused by Vatican II's poor implementation with regards to liturgy, architecture, art, and most, most importantly, the unwillingness of priests to lead, we are going to lose our flocks to those willing to lead them, even into schism.
Sad to see only 13 (so far) likes for such an important comment! The second paragraph about agreeable clergy is so true. Priests are joking during mass and making unthinkable things to "stay in touch". The church is losing its attractivity because there is no longer truth in it. 95% of the people who called themselves "christians" live in the very same way as non-believers. The christian must be recognizable to soicety not by the fact they go to church on Sunday but by their deeds! If there is no difference in lives of christians apart from Sundays mornings, their faith has no meaning. You must live it to make it having a sense. Every day ask yourself: If Christ comes today to my home according to which of my acts will he recognize me as his follower? What have I done just and only for him and not for myself? When I daily ask myself this question, I very often end up with empty hands. On the other hand I dont go to church, am not baptised and dont feel "chosen", as Barron sadly called all baptised people. Anyway, we must fight hard to live for CHrist not only speak about it.
I liked your comment, but I believe that Bishop Barron has spoken about 'bad implementation'. Also, there are billions of Catholics since Vatican II - what I object to with some SM commentators is the 'notion' that ALL Catholics on the globe have the exact same experience after Vatican 2 as them. We don't. Likewise the notion that prevails in movie making today and journalism that ALL Catholics were abused. We weren't. These commentators sound very much like protestants - they want the Church but only bits of it and the rest in their own image. They speak about idols etc. and very derogatory about our Pope, and yet dont turn that critical eye on themselves and what they are idolising. The Holy Spirit is guiding the Church through the ages...this is a Catholic belief. These commentators obviously do not believe this.....ergo are they Catholic at all? They profess to be Catholic but they don't like a vatican council, because 'they' can do a better job than the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit unites, and sends the Church out with the great commission - Who sows division?
@@pop6997 The Church has been through far greater tumults than the cultural revolution in the West which has infected a great many within the Church. It will survive this time as it has any other. I also agree one can not reject the validity of Vatican II and simultaneously call themselves a Catholic in communion with Rome.
That being said, we absolutely can call to question the bad practices, bad theology and outright heresies promulgated by those claiming the "spirit of Vatican II," as though that means anything.
@@flyoptimum Yes, everybody can criticize another - we only have to open our mouths or type on our keyboards. One can sow many things...words are weapons, especially online where there is very little pause.
However, staying true to the notion of what it means to answer the question, 'Who do you say I am?' and the promise of a church that will be both loved and hated but true and preserved.
How can we reconcile this with people who say....'ah yer man that priest he swore, I heard it...' and the truly divisive person who divides according to his own will, and not just admonishing a local priest, but truly sowing division.....like Luther. Well meaning, but full of pride, enough to edit scripture itself, and then declare it a 'sola'
This is not Catholic....Catholics to my mind are trusting children of God, not calculating odds and worried that evil exists! They counter it by 'action' for the good...
Exemplify, the good rather than feel good by noting bad. If we can't trust providence, we feel the need to correct the council, what are we? Yes, by all means hold people to account, but how do you hold the Holy Spirit to account? So, I think the spirit of Vatican 2 is perhaps taking into its depths far more than you or I understand or can know...or see the fruits of.
God Bless, and help us all in challenging times.
@@pop6997 Yes, "exemplify the good, rather than feeling good by noting the bad". That is a solid truth for us to practise, on our spiritual journey. Thank you!
Complex teaching here, Bishop Barron. Even though it’s not easy to follow and comprehend nonetheless it sounds like music to the 👂. Jesus Christ shall continue to guide His Church and there’s no storm that will never wither away! God bless you for all you do for His Church!
Wonderful exposition. Thank you for sharing. I think you are bang on. May God bless you and your work.
Thank you, Bushop Barron for this response. I had heard these comments on several videos I was listening to, and was concerned.
This quote came to mind while watching.
“Ministry can only be the sharing of the gift that was given to me. However and wherever I am, my work, like the Father’s, is to breathe a little life into those I know, help them to come to be a little more fully, a little more freely who they are.” Sister Kathleen McGuire, ASC (1937 - 1992, member of the Adorers of the Blood of Christ)
To add to the above: Sister Kathleen McGuire was one of five nuns from the Adorers of the Blood of Christ who had gone to Libera to do missionary work. Between October 20th and 23rd, 1992, Sister McGuire and the four women who she went with were caught in the crossfire of the First Liberian Civil War and unfortunately did not survive.
Excellent quote -hpa !
@@peterj6740 Thank you :)
Thank you Bishop.
What I believe will be a powerful thing to come out of Word on Fire is a course on the Constitutions of Vatican II. I have friends who don't like Vatican II but have never read it and friends who love the "Spirit of Vatican II" and never read any of it as well. A short course and study would be powerful for both sides.
Bishop Barron, I love your line about "Christyfying the world." One question, however: how are Catholics supposed to "go forth" into the modern world and address modern issues (abortion, gender theory), when we have been largely taught a "beige Catholicism," are surrounded by banal litugries ('spirit of V2'), and a hierarchy who does not do much to shepherd its people into an orthodox faith? When 70+ % of the Church does not believe in the Real Presence, are we really equipped to bring the lumen to the gentis? I think we first need a strong orthodox base (supported by the hierarchy and proper liturgy) before the ideals of V2 can be achieved.
Educate yourself! Read the Bible, learn the Catechism. We are responsible for our own education. We can't blame other people forever.
@@peggyp3682 yea, great idea :) thats why I tell my children not to go to school but instead learn it all themselves. I think its so dumb to go to college or university too ... why have other people teach you anything when you can obviously do it all yourself.
Peggy P No, it is the job of the Bishops, the job that Christ bestowed upon them
@@lukebrady8966 We've just got to quit blaming and get back on track. Blaming fixes nothing and is a juvenile response to a problem. The Church will survive this like she always has.
Peggy P the church will survive, but that survival could simply be the pope and one faithful bishop. The church used to be present in North Africa, but the Muslims saw to the destruction of that. The collapse of the church in the west was caused by someone and something, and without naming what that is then it is impossible to rebuild.
Great!
I appreciate your message Msrg. Barron.
Lummen Gentium is what you have been for the people this Sunday with your message about Vatican II.
I certainly give thanks to God for this. Because if this were not this way, I think I would be protestant at this time.
Thanks for talk about our Pope Francis too. I studied with Jesuits since Pre-K to the 2nd year of college. You can say I am Jesuit without vows. Although I don’t approve some of the recent incidents, I understand most of the things Pope Francis has done. I can say that the Pope has straight good intentions for doing everything he has done. It is only that some conservative people don’t understand the Jesuit charity and empathy while try to reach all the people realms.
Thanks for your words in favor not of an ecclesial party, but in favor of the Church itself.
Go forth! Go to the peripheries! BE a poor church! Bring the Lumen to the Gentium! "I AM a mission in this world" (EG, n.273). Brilliant lecture, Bishop Barron! Thanks for challenging ultra conservative, introverted Catholics whose aged, tired, joyless, Spirit-less faces and hate-filled criticisms do a great disservice to Christ. Viva il papa, Francesco! Let us move towards Synodality; for the whole Church is "Christian": anointed in The Anointed One, Christ Jesus!
Thank you so much Your Excellency! I am so happy you mentioned this. Seeing folks like Raymond Arroyo with his constant attacks on our Holy Father, and others not really doing much about it, it is quite refreshing to see your video. Thank you again and God bless you and our Holy Church!!
An important message! Thank you so much Bishop Barren. I hope all Catholics watch and consider this important message.
Thank you Bishop Barron. This is the exact thoughts and teaching I needed this morning. Yesterday when Scott Hahn posted a photo of you, him and others on FB preparing for the baccalaureate Mass - like clock work here came the attackers of your work. We know who this is coming from no need to attach names but is was horrible to read the half truths and out right falsehoods and actions attributed to you. I’m very glad to put this video in my quiver- so when I come across these misguided brothers and sisters I’ll have the doctrine to refute their arguments. God Bless you all at Word on Fire. Your work continues to inspire and help me to grow - so that I may fulfill my Baptism.
Praying for you and us all, Bishop Barron!
Keep up the good work Bishop Barron. Another good and informative video. God bless.
Magnificent talk. Thanks Bishop Barron.
Bishop Barron, I certainly can understand your frustration but... think of this frustration, When I was in college our Chaplain removed a very beautiful altar along with all the beautiful statues in our very beautiful St. Joseph's Chapel. In the altar's place he had a student make a macrame tree which was hung in place of the beautiful old altar. He then removed the first two rows of pews in front of the altar. This was so he could start mass by dancing in a black leotard in front of the altar before putting on his vestments to say mass. He stripped every bit of beauty out of that chapel in the name of Vatican 2.
Thank you for this video, bishop! We need more people echoing these words!
The imagery of the laity bringing the light of Christ to the world draws a direct connection to the ceremonies of the Easter Vigil, when the Paschal Candle is lit, the congregants light candles, and the Easter Proclamation (the Exultet) is sung.
Thank you again Bishop Barron,an eye opening message about Vatican I I , and our beloved Pope Francis. 🙏🛐☦️
Thanks Bishop Barron for this great video. I fully agree to all that you have shared. Though I’m from Asia, I’m in touch with all the current debates happening in the West, thanks to the internet and TH-cam. Here in Asia, I don’t hear much of people questioning Pope Francis or Vatican 2. All I can say is that here we live in the midst of many non Catholic religions and we are groping in the dark on how to become an effective evangelizing Church. Deacon Clement, Malaysia.
Thank you for all that you do. I am learning the Rosary from you, and feel its difference in my heart. God Bless.
Can you address other fellow bishops who are questioning V2? These social media voices you speak of are taking their lead from them (Vigano and Schneider in particular).
You are certainly a good model, Bishop Barron, for what it means to evangelize and thank you for this talk. You spoke of spiritual treasures... and how it is time for us to open the doors and let the life out into the world. Thank you for recalling Pope John Paul II! As artist I am inspired every day by the now Saint John Paul II to do just that... let the life out... through the way of beauty... not always easy... but the LIGHT will shine!
Where's the Mcarrick report?
Who? I don’t think I’ve ever head that name... 🤷♂️
Google him
McCarrick is a huge issue for the church and the American Bishops
You are my "right-on" Bishop. Too much confusion going on, too much division and I don't understand a lot of it. Thank you -
Blessings and peace ♡
Hold the Lord's hand and peace will abide.
Thank you so much. Your words are much needed.
I'm as Catholic as they come, having found the pearl of great price. I would die for Jesus and His Church were he to ask me to. I would never leave His Bride, no matter how dismal things appeared. That being said, I feel deeply hurt, betrayed even, as if it was my own parent who betrayed me. I openly wept during Mass after the McCarrick scandal broke and there was finally mention of it at my church (it took several weeks for anyone to address it). A letter was read from Bishop Sartan, a beautiful letter, apologizing to the laity for the failure of the episcopate. O, how my soul needed to hear these words as a balm from our shepherd. I take no issue with Vat II. I'm at home in the traditional or charismatic. I get it. Everyone is a critic. I just want my shepherd to be there for me, to defend me against the wolves that circle in our world-secularism, culture of death, cancel culture, religious persecution. We need truth--truth in charity, but truth, nonetheless. I plead with you, and all the bishops, please help your flock.
Teri, i understand your pain, but the bishops need the laity to pray for them and help them,they are also wounded
Teri, what oxygen is the lungs, pray is to the soul. Jesus remains the Good Shepherd ,who died for the bishops as well (they are also His sheep )
@@peterj6740 Of course pray for them, and all priest, and all laity, and for the Church. Of course. And yes, Jesus is THE GOOD SHEPHERD, but he appointed shepherds on earth to "feed his sheep". To hope and pray and ask that our bishops be on the front lines with the laity is, in my opinion, not asking too much.
Teri, St Paul , himself ,warned the Church shepherds at Ephesus ,-------I know after my departure ,fierce wolves will come in among you,not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men, speaking perverse things,to draw away the disciples after them.Therefore be alert---( acts 20 verse 29-31)
St Paul actually admonished them with tears for 3 years.
The bishops ,today, have an impossible job -the people have stopped listening and do not trust any so-called authority be that of Church or government.
There is a number of wolves among the shepherds today- and further -----
75 % of people do not trust The American Government and over 20% hate the government.
How many Catholics, today, trust the church after the handling, and cover ups of sexual abuse of children ( involving 5000 priests and growing,over a 60 year period)
The bishops have created such a problem for themselves , that the sheep have to help the shepherds to get rid of the wolves.
May God bless you,Teri, always and in all ways
Thank you for your ministry, Your Excellency.
We know that attacks on the Council itself aren't healthy, but we really should address the awful implementation of the Council. If we can't blame the current crisis entirely on the Council, we can at least say that the Council did not help prevent it. But more often than not the hierarchy won't even recognized that there is a crisis.
Poor catechesis is a real issue. Liturgical abuse is a real issue. And if it wasn't for the failure of the hierarchy, these "radtrads" wouldn't exist. We know that the texts of the Council are sound. Now let's talk about how we failed to live up to them.
For the record, I'm very fond of bishop Barron's "Communio way".
Agree! I support the legitimacy of V2 but realize that our bad litugies and 'beige' Catholicism being taught to us does not prepare us to go out into the world and address modern issues like abortion and gender theory. We FIRST need a strong orthodox faith or we will simply drown out there.
@Ian and oppose socialism, communism and postmodern ideology. Those are things which I find to be some of the most pertinent issues facing the world and the Church today.
To be clear: just because I want the Church to more seriously prepare us and defend against those things does not mean I want them to also ignore other issues such as environmentalism. We can't fight for every cause simulatenously. I am choosing to defend against these evils at this time.
@Ian What exactly about Jordan L's "ideology" do you have a problem with? There is no "liberal Catholic vs conservative Catholic" position on the issues of abortion and gender theory-the Church teaches they are wrong. If you disagree with this...I'll let you fill in the blank
Ian so are you saying you agree with the Church’s teaching on these issues, you just think many people are too obsessed with these two issues?
@Ian Ian, I read your comments and Pascendi Domenici Gregis springs to mind.
Great analysis that puts Vatican II and Pope Francis in perspective and highlights the challenge within the church today by those who advance conspiracy theories against Vatican II and individual popes. I am always reminded of the fact that the sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit is unity and not strife. I cannot see those that create strife and division are motivated by the Spirit.
Matt, people are confused , because the Teaching authority is confused.
i was told decades ago that Vatican 2 was a pastoral council ,which even Pope Paul vi said it was. Now I hear the opposite !
I agree with 100% of Trent! Does Vatican 2 agree with all of the Council of Trent?
Mountain Stream yes that actually is heretical. St Paul said all Scripture is God breathed. The heresy of Marcion taught that the two testaments were from different Gods. I wouldn’t go there.
Mountain Stream Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian denounced Marcion as a heretic, and he was excommunicated by the church of Rome around 144 AD.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Mountain Stream as many previous catechisms and councils affirm, there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.
Mountain Stream he authored the Old And New Testaments only.
Thank you Father...such a timely video that I desperately needed. I was against Pope Francis and was questioning Vatican II. Thank you for providing clarity and correction and may God bless your work!
Finally!! I am so glad you are saying something. My sister is a young woman looking to be married and she says the only men she can find these days are men who are staunch traditionalists who are anti pope and anti Vatican II. Its so sad that our Church continues to splinter further and further with each passing decade. May we soon be united and may the young impressionable generation not be led astray by false shepards.
@@tomthx5804 What I dont get is why those who reject Pope Francis are not with Pope Michael?
I’m so sorry to hear that. Btw catholicmatch.com might help your sister. In Christ!
Bishop Barron your homilies and discussions are an eye opener on a number of issues, thank you for that. Some of our religious leaders need to admit when things are not handled timely. Ave Maria!
Thank you for the great message Bishop 🙏
Thank you, Bishop Barron. I've learned a great deal from this that I needed to learn.
Thank you Your Excellency for the attempt to explain this charitably.
Just a note though that Vatican II teaches with the authority of the ordinary magisterium (not strictly infallible), so it cannot be compared to the ecumenical councils of the past which all taught with the extraordinary magisterium and were infallible.
Strictly speaking, its not formal heresy to question some of the council's texts, and this is acknowledged by the Vatican when Pope Benedict XVI permitted the Institute of the Good Shepherd (IBP) in their statutes to engage in a "serious and constructive criticism" of the council, but respecting the magisterium of the Church always and allowing the Holy See to give the final interpretation. That being said, because it is a teaching of the ordinary magisterium, any questions/healthy criticisms should be done very carefully and with a respectful tone. This is where many fail by getting too carried away in their frustrations.
God bless!
What did Vatican 2 "settle" ?
I don't know what to think any more 😔 I feel a sense of despair at times, that there's so much confusion in the Church, and how can any of us get to Heaven. When I feel like this I end up thinking well maybe the "I'm ok, you're ok" mentality is right - everyone do as they see fit as per their own conscience, don't judge others, do unto them as you'd like them to do unto you, and hope for the best. I think people gravitate towards tradition because it seems to be to be a lot more clear, it's like we knew what we stood for and people desperately want that clarity and direction. I reminded of the multitude following Jesus and the disciples said should we turn them away, and he said no and had pity on them because they were like sheep without a sheperd...I Hope he still feels this way because right now I feel rudderless
Fellow believer- I have some helpful advice for you; Go back in history to the time of the Roman emperor, Constantine, 1700 years ago.
He was confused at that time, so he called together 300 bishops to Rome, from all over the Christian World, to work on an agreement, on the how and why and when of Christianity.They came up with our creed that we profess every Sunday mass
Pray that creed slowly day by day, and peace in your faith will come
Remember ,what oxygen is to the lungs, praying is to the soul
I believe in the one True God the master and sustainer of the whole universe and in the Messiah Jesus, whose love for us was stronger than death, because HE Is risen and risen in deed.This is the God, I worship,and believe in, and the God I love
Try to pray the Creed slowly, and the Our Father slowly for a fortnight, and God will reward you,-----I am certain-just try it-but persevere
May God bless you always and in all ways-God is the God of peace with no confusion
Itisntwhatyouknow it'swhoyouknow - Jesus - let Him be your rudder - He likes water and boats 😊 - He is your calm in the storm 💗
Just know that times are rough, but this only proves what Jesus has thought us. I don't fear, no matter how corrupt Church gets, God has final word and all bishops, priests and pope will be judged. It is our responsibility to pray for them. So in that sense we are also to blame. Have faith. This ship will not sink.
I’m so glad the Bishop spoke to this. I am disappointed by the Catholics who disabuse the leadership and processes so publicly which is disturbing and distracting. It’s simply their egos and the snake. Let’s get together and implement the themes therein. As a layperson that is what I need.
Bishop Barron I deeply respect you. However, as a lay person who grew up as a teenager and through my 20's in the Post Vatican II Council all we as lay people knew was the manner in which the council was implemented, particularly in the United States. I believe the council was necessary, I believe that had it been implemented the way the majority of council fathers had envisioned , it would have been incredible. However, it wasn't. Thankfully John Paul II and Pope Benedict brought back a sense of reverence to the liturgy. I have heard recently that 65% of Catholics do not believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. How deeply sad is that.
Focusing on human flaws robs us of seeing the Graces of the Holy Spirit.
I appreciated your comment. As a protestant, I have learned it is vital to confess my sin to put my sin behind me, so that I can move forward in my Christian journey. Not to do so is to lack faith that God is willing and able to deal with my sin, and to fall behind in my own adventure of walking with Jesus Christ my Lord.
@@terryhemingway6983 Thanks for sharing Terry and yes your are spot on. Our own flaws and sin so often get in the way. Daily conversion "Metanoia" a penitent heart, and submitting our hearts to His Will, so that as His Will is brought forth we advance the Kingdom of God in our lives and are empowered by His Grace. Bless you brother! You are welcome and great to have you on here!
Thanks Bishop for the informative and insghtful talk abt Vatican II. Am 34 years old and iv always bn confused by some folks who seem anti vatican II. I always knew the Holy Spirit has always guided the Church thru those councils starting from the council in the Acts of the apostles to the councils that determined the canon of the Bible, the councils that defined the creed. So to believe God didn't guide us in Vatican II bt believe He did in previous councils is a logical contradiction and a distrust of Jesus' own words - I am with u to the end of the age!
You said learn about what happened at the council, and realise that the holy spirit did not guide it, it was hijacked by an organised gang of liberal bishops.
@@lukebrady8966 -The great venerable Fulton sheen was present at the vatican Council. He said " to be part of that council, and to mingle with more than 2000 bishops from different nationalities and cultures, and to sing the creed together(in latin ) with them each morning,is a Council of nations which would make the United Nations blush for want of a common commitment." So I say to you ,Luke by way of encouragement, to pray the Creed slowly every day and confusion will subside.
I believe in one true God, because I believe about God and he is worthy of my devotion.
There were 168 general meetings and 10 plenary ones. there were 147 reports which came from 2212 speeches at the Second Vatican Council from October 1962 to December 8, 1965..
luke, there is so much we do not know, and in all humility, must admit our ignorance and pray for guidance.
luke, remember what oxygen is to the lungs, prayer is to the soul.
God ,bless you, luke
Peter J The testimony from many bishops is clear, most did not know what they were voting for. Most Bishops outside of France, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands, had no knowledge of the liturgical movement or of nouvo theology. The council was hijacked, mostly because John XXIII allowed men, who had been condemned by Pius XII and Cardinal Ottaviani, to act as experts at the council, where they promptly reject all 70 of the prepatory schemas that had been written up by men like Marcel Lefebvre.
Luke , yes theologians who were downgraded before Vatican 2 , were promoted at vatican 2.
I think the main problem came at the first vatican council in 1870, when papal Infallibility was defined.
When a pope speaks ex Cathedra ,he is infallible. This, thereby created a huge problem for the Church.
The church now had 2 classes of teaching- FALLIBLE TEACHING AND INFALLIBLE TEACHING.
i have asked in vain for any theologian in the Church for a list of ex Cathedra statements or even how many ?
The standard answer it is very rare .OH I SAY HOW CONVENIENT !
THE POPE IN DECLARING HIS OWN INFALLIBILITY 150 YEARS AGO IS THE PROBLEM IN THE CHURCH today
Papal infallibility from a few statements, to creeping infallibility to more statements, to galloping infallibility to all statements.
Now it is starting to crash, too many catholics today believe Pope Francis is an anti-pope.
And now that is the irony of it all ! I can understand the frustration of archbishop leverbre- he was told by previous popes ,that he was doing a good job ---- and you know the rest , and the question remains did Christ promise infallibility to any human being at any time in history ?
God bless you , Luke -
@@peterj6740 Christ promised a special assistance of the Holy Spirit to Peter (and his successors). Papal infallibility is a derivation from that, but only as a last resort. In fact, it has been used only once in 150 years. It wasn't a doctrine "made up" by Vatican I, but a theological development of many centuries, and by the time of the Reformation it was pretty much a unanimous opinion among theologians and bishops. I believe it is a very necessary dogma, which Jesus himself willed when He made the promise to Peter. Think about it. The buck must stop somewhere. It may come the day when the Church will not be able to afford a state of permanent deliberation. It may come the day when the episcopal college will not be able to agree on a certain matter or, even worse, might reach a heretical conclusion which, thinking of so many bishops nowadays, doesn't strike me as too farfetched. Do you know that Humanae Vitae was given against the report of a pontifical commission that voted to approve a change in the Church's doctrine by 64 of its 69 members? Do you know that the majority of the US episcopate rejected the enciclical? (paradoxically, the dissenting vote in the commission was drafted by two american theologians... And one of them, a Jesuit!). What then? Should the Church disintegrate into its likely many different factions? Remember that the Vicar of Christ is not only a guarantor of the depositum fidei, but also of the unity of the Church. Christ delegated His authority mainly to the Apostolic Church but, being as He is God, knows perfectly well how Satan would try to tear apart His mystical body, and history has made it abundantly clear how right He was to establish a true hierarchy, and a primacy of one (a primus inter pares) among the top rung. Remember, His Church is a Kingdom, and no collegiate body has the last word in a true monarchy, not in a Davidic one, to be sure!
@Bishop Robert Barron,
Greetings! A lot of my early conversion was formed by your videos and I am very grateful for your gift to the church. How should one respond to the following argument:
"Paul the VI, declared that Vatican II was not infallible in regards to extraordinary teaching, but only in ordinary teaching! Therefore, it is restricted in terms of whatever doctrinal statements it lays out. Ergo, we can point out theological errors in Vatican II that do not align with previous ecumenical councils and reject them in good conscious, because they are novelties and ordinary dogmatic pronunciations only infallibly cover things that are previously part of Church teaching (for something that contradicts a previous Ecumenical council cannot be forced with an ordinary pronouncement)."
P.S. Even if we don't accept that there are any errors that break with tradition in Vatican II, is the point that "we can reject anything that doesn't follow a past ecumenical council theoretically true??" Or, must we maintain that all councils are free from theological error? For instance, does the Church have to say explicitly that she is speaking infallibly to be infallible? Should we reject the notion that there are novelties in Vatican II?
Thank you so much!
For reference:
"The magisterium of the Church did not wish to pronounce itself under the form of extraordinary dogmatic pronouncements."
-Pope Paul VI, Discourse Closing Vatican II, 7 December 1965
and
"In view of the pastoral nature of the Council, it has avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner any dogma carrying the mark of infallibility."
-Pope Paul VI, Audience of 12 January 1966
Joseph you are right - Be like Cardinal Saint Henry Newman who said " yes I will drink to the pope, but to my conscience first, and then to the pope (after infallibility was defined in 1870)
Joseph ,just follow your own conscience to the best of your ability.Your conscience is your sacred core ,where you are alone with God who enlightens you,
and leads you to the truth.To go against your conscience is neither right or safe.The bishop is only expressing his own opinion, which he has every right to do.
Top marks to you and May God continue to bless you in all ways and always
Thank you for making this video, I think I really needed to hear this and I hope other's who are skeptical about Vatican II listens to this simple, obvious, and yet very profound message.
Bless you Bishop Barron for having a pure heart as you survey the scene of V2 & are look for the good! But the reality of sitting in the pews for 30 years there in parishes
in Santa Barbara is quite different than the ideal. You were blessed to go to Rome and Paris and study and be with wonderful good mentors, the rest of us lowly ( educated, devout, daily Mass, Catholic faithful) who long for solid teaching & beautiful NO liturgies, get a scrap. Literally. We are stuck. We can ask Father please some orthodoxy now and then, some Georgian music, a little Latin.. bells even?? But always no way. Nothing so ya give up. Now I’m mad at even the churches are closed!!! What about the Pope going out to the margins? I’ve been fuming that we can even go and pray in the Poor Clare Chapel during the week!! Nothing again and not one priest seems to answer or care about us little lost sheep. I can cry I miss regular Holy Mass and time for adoration. I’m not afraid of a virus that’s ridiculous at the cost of our souls that love Jesus. God grief we can’t just say all the idealistic wonderful things without connecting to us here suffering from policies we can’t effect. Please open up our church so we can pray at least ... please 🙏🏼love all the WOF work!!
@Suzanne Petrie: Re your "Bless you Bishop Barron for having a pure heart..."
Excellent reaction! Bp Barron is truly decent and on past occasions I have said so too - also that he is well read and well spoken. And best of all, he is not as outrageous as his brothers in the USCCB (naming no names).
But the bishop seems to think that we are agitating against the Roman Catholic Church.... Nothing could be further from the truth. Au contraire, it is because we are so immersed in the Church that we take the time and trouble to watch various channels and then to go the extra mile (step?) to comment on some videos. We are concerned. Don't abuse our genuine concern by calling it calumny or "vitriolic attacks".
Many priests do share our concerns (one such priest was issued a cease and desist order by his bishop!) and we appreciate those priests. However, when it comes to the bishops the situation is just the reverse. Most bishops just give the patented response of "it's being looked into. Meanwhile we're having a drive and require your generous contribution."
We're not blind, we're not THAT stupid. We are Catholics for life and beyond. Just don't embarrass us with all this "be nice" and "accompaniment" and "the church must go into the society".
HC-JAIPUR (18/08/2020)
Pj Smith dear friend I’m plenty calm!! I’m addressing my thoughts to the dear Bishop. And also you don’t know me or my life thanks for the rely but I believe I still have a right to politely share.
Michael Anderson yes I had to stay has no other prospects for many many years. I did finally escape up the coast to San Luis Obispo but not a whole lot better ..
@@joshuamoore8278 Very well said.
@@joshuamoore8278 Even better said.
Quo primum
Pious X"s "Anti Modernist Oath"
Ottaviani Intervention
Thank you, Father, for your insights. Can you make a video disclaiming point by point the actual attack? For example: it's correlation to the message at Fatima?
Bishop Barron, as always thank you for your wisdom on this subject!
What is intreating is that even as a non-catholic I would accept the authority of vatican II. Not on the basis of their infalibility, but on the basis that they are the ligitimate God ordained leaders of the catholic church. As such, one must either be a catholic and submit to the leadership of vatican II, or do neither.
I appreciate you, Bishop Barron, for addressing social media trends head on. I'm about the same age as you; had no idea why the mass was said in Latin as a child; but welcomed the change to English, the altar being turned towards the people; etc. as a teen, I left my traditional Portuguese Catholic church. I traveled in evangelical churches for years, attended Bible school for 4 years...then no church at all for several years. I'm back in a (Protestant) church, but married to a non Christian. I listen to you and a few others, I love Pope Francis, love my catholic upbringing. I am praying for all who profess to be teachers because their job is weighty...to lead and guide the sheep. Many of those detractors of V2 or the pope (or you) are selling their merchandise, enriching themselves from their opinions. May the Holy Spirit guide us all to truth and love God & for one another.
Lagunatic Mom it has come out that Taylor Marshall was hired to bash Vat II.
thank you bishop , this talk is very much needed now. may God bless you and protect you.
Praise God Bishop Barron for defending the integrity of the CATHOLIC VATICAN 11. A GREAT WINDOW OF DEEPENING OF OUR FAITH IN GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST HIS INCARNATION, GUIDING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE CHURCH'S COMMUNAL & MISSIOLOGY ...TO BRING PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, OUR SAVIOUR.
Thank you Bishop Barron for being one of the best lights of our time defending Second Vatican Council & Pope Francis...to get out of the comfort zone & love people at the edges to bring them to Christ. Admirable!
One thing I am learning is to meet people where they are out in their journey to find a relationship with God and Jesus. We tend to forget that some are refused access to the gospels and even put in prison or worse for obtaining information. When we talk about these countries that deny access, we must remember to meet them on their level of understanding and knowledge. There is a very small opening of discourse in these countries in regard to outside faith At least this Pope is willing to utilize the "bridge" (Jesus), in a manner that may allow a crack in the severe wall that surrounds hardness of thought and heart, in a manner that may open a peek into dialogue. After reading one of the Pope's letters and reading about Balthasar's teachings, this Pope has stepped forward for dialogue with a country known for harshness. I am very pleased and I will keep hope for change.
Bishop, so brilliant and right on! Thank God for your work.
The Legion of Mary, founded in 1921, has been evangelizing for 100 years. Among other things, we knock on doors. Why are there not presidia set up in every Catholic parish? The aim of every parish organization ought to be evangelization.
Wow! Thank you Bishop Barron for opening my eyes. What an informative talk. 👏👏👏🙏🙏🙏
excellent summary and explanation, thank you.
Thank you Bishop Barron for all your instruction and love for your virtual flock who need you so much to teach us and inform us with your God given gifts. All who have ears... LISTEN!
Your Excellency, Bishop, Father, Teacher, Man of God, Christian, Brother Catholic, first I think you are an awesome gift to the Church. Thank you for laying down your life, for your priesthood and ministry. I feel you truly struggle (in a noble way) even fight to keep the mind of the Church and even this appeal is pastoral as you seek to counsel those who risk error, heresy and spreading division. So I truly appreciate your spirit and guidance.
And I love the evangelical lens you teach us to focus our understanding of the intent of V2 and Pope Francis.
Just some observations, in humility- I do not see the Holy Father making the same pastoral appeals to his critics- more so clowning them and disparaging them, demeaning them and not taking into account their legitimate zeal for orthodoxy and their concerns for the rampant errors of modernism in contrast to their custody of souls. So much vagueness and confusion has flooded in. We really need to meet in the middle and hug this out, not divide and deride.
Again, I see you attempting to take this mantle and I thank you. But I have to question whether we have let more of Christ into the world than we have let the world into the Church.
How many current Bishops would the Apostles lay hands on to transfer their authority, their anointing. I am afraid that the Apostles are dumfounded if not dejected or enraged by so much scandal and betrayal. It really is hard to fathom. And yes I have to apply that spirit of repentance to myself and have no moral authority to judge anyone, but take the Church now and the Apostolic era and I fear we have let clericalism run amok. The abuses, allegiances with not just secular but anti-Christian causes, confused teaching on sexuality like Fr. Martin, lack of clarification by the Pope and Bishops, scandal upon scandal implicating bishops and priests, just wow. It just looks to me like the fruit of V2 is suspect.
I definitely believe you are a voice who can help make sense of this all and honor the intent and missionary vision of V2. But the Amazon Synod was devoid of the Holy Spirit’s guidance. This is a real scandal. That is not evangelization or new evangelization. That is universalism meets paganism. It certainly is not Catholic nor Christian. Are you not torn to shreds that your brother bishops could concoct such a sideshow? Please understand how shocking and deeply concerning that was to faithful Catholics. I am still in shock that bishops maneuvered that.
And the Marxist agenda is not conspiracy. The Global Economic Forum...these are real concerns. I think the Pope’s intentions are good, but I fear he grossly underestimates how anti-Christian the globalist movement is. They only want a Church to hand them votes masquerading as social justice, so long as we go along with abortion, the population control myth and transgender ideology, then that same globalist machine will martyr the Church. Am I crazy? I don’t think so Bishop.
I love and pray for the Pope and bishops in the Rosary every day...but we need Saints of God to rise up and speak truth and defeat some horrible errors. We need a miracle, Bishop.
Let that miracle shine through you.
Brian thanks brother, you too! Lord use us and heal your Church!
Thank you so much for this video. I needed it. I’ve been accused of not being a good Catholic, going down the wrong road, because I love and respect Pope Francis. I also feel Vatican 11 did bring the church out to the people. I’m old 77 and a cradle Catholic but I do feel the church is a living institution that needs to grow with the Holy Spirit.
But the church didn’t grow, it contracted and grew smaller.
@@lukebrady8966 -But the most important thing is to ask myself the question-HAVE I GROWN IN GRACE AND FAITH IN CHRIST ?
And if not, I should increase my prayer life.Remember what oxygen is to the lungs, praying is to the Soul