Home Studio - ITB vs Analog
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2022
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Man I've been using cubase ever since Cubase SX3. August 31, 2005 First time i used it. it blew my mind. now I'm on cubase 10.5. will upgrade in a couple of years. I love Cubase.
Same here..b4 that it was "Creator" 4 me😂
Hi Barry. Thank you for a great video and for sharing. As a disclaimer I'd like to say that the choice to record and mix ITB or hybrid is totally up to each induvial and what it is they are seeking to achieve based on their own standards and requirements. I hope that served to mitigate an onslaught of negative comments. I was completely ITB for as long as I can remember. I recently spent time re-designing and rebuilding my studio with outboard gear for a hybrid setup and I can definitely say that I immediately noticed an increased depth and width to the audio. It's interesting that you mentioned the 4K analogy because that's exactly how I'd described the experience to others.
I concur sir, the reason great hardware cost what it does is because of what it does. You can get great results without it, but adding quality hardware will open up amazing results. Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter hasn’t spent the money to hear the difference.
there are so many name you can find, multiple even 10 times grammy award winner , mix and mastering itb, google it or find another channel, the problem is not the gear, the problem is our ears and sense
Just wanted to chime in I saw a really superb video from Home Recording Made Easy (not to divert your audience Barry just supplemental info) where he did a pretty massive session with 3 software plugins as the preamp on every track and then one through a real Neve 1073 preamp… and wow that video really did it for me. On the individual tracks it’s real nit-picky to try and spot the difference between hardware vs software, but what I heard clear as day was on a full mix with maybe 16-20 tracks or more, where EVERY channel was router and re-recorded through that Neve Hardware, holy crap the sound was undeniably better. And it’s the three dimensionality like you said, there’s like perceivable space that is hard to put into words but has a real cumulative effect when applied to every channel like that. Just wanted to plug that video for anybody else like me who’s just getting into this and trying to figure out which way is up, that was an aha moment for me.
I think another camera analogy if it helps anybody is like the difference between using a DSLR or mirrorless camera with a wide aperture lens to create depth of field OPTICALLY not digitally, vs the new iPhones having “portrait” and “cinematic” software modes that artificially blur backgrounds. The artificial blur is neat but it’s imitating an effect that can only be done by physics with glass and space not really replicable with digital means for those who have the basic eye for it.
Great video! Thanks Barry!
I always, I look forward to a new video! As usual great topic (food for thought)!
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
Barry is undefeated!! Kudos
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
A good perspective on this subject. I was always in the box but this year I added some analog capability. I purhased several outboard hardware units - Avalon Design three V55's, two 737's, 2044 and 747 - and two Neumann V402's. I also purchased a new Audient 4816Se analog console. It is fun to use these things. I do not think that they make the ultimate quality any better but they are enjoyable to use.
This video is one hundred percent accurate. I been saying this exact same analogy for years
One of my friend is an amazing pro engineer here in Montreal. He works with all the greats and is kind enough to answer questions when I have some. I called him lately to ask about analogue gear I wanted to invest in. Compressors, EQs, etc. He told me not to do it. Not worth it. Too expensive and useless. He said he started lately to track everything directly in his interface without eq or compression. It seems to be more and more the new way to go.
He suggested me to put my money in great mics.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Very reasonable argument. I'm subscribing right now.
Barry you are one of the extremely few honest channels on TH-cam. The others especially the larger ones are deceiving people and I think on purpose for the sponsors, because they know better.
It’s why I do it the way I do, thanks so much for recognizing it!
@@BarryJohns please keep it up. Your channel is a godsend.
Straight Facts!! I wish I could have an amazing sounding live and control room, with class A preamps, Compressors & Eqs, monitors and mics
Top 5 pieces of hardware worth owning on somewhat budget that I wouldn't want to live without: BAE 1073mpf, ProReplicas 1176, LA2A, DIY C12, Neumann u87. Literally everything else can be cheap stuff but those are the most important for me.
Good video. I agree. Very true what you said about recording thru good analog gear.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
I like that feature you spoke of. taking a photo and putting it in the mix insert. I would like to see that come to Reaper.
You're last point killed it lol 😆 😂 👏 🤣
Glad your reminding folks of the Origin of music. It’s quality samples , tracks and Vocal recordings that makes or breaks the final product .
This sounds like when you ask kids where ‘ Babies ‘ come from and their response? Hospitals of Course !!! 😂
The whole process must be remembered, we can’t take it for granted .
Barry, I love your channel! Indulge me, here: in the right time and energy, there are 3 components to good records: the material (songs), performance (talent), and ears (technicians - recording/mixing)… 12yrs ago, my old-Grammy-award-winning mastering engineer (at a famous mastering studio in L.A.) thought my brother and I had an SSL room because of the quality of our recordings. A cpl yrs after we first started working with him, he found out we were totally in the box. Now, granted, we spent an insane amount of money on our mic pres and interface, because we understand what is required on the front-end to get solid sounds (having cut our teeth in large format studios, early on). At the start of the day, it’s about how well you can hear sound and your ability to capture it well.
Which pres and interfaces?
@@seekingtruthonly.4299 3 RME Octamic D’s piped into RME 9652, 8 i/o, and Multiface… we now have the Octamic D’s running thru the Antelope Audio Galaxy 32
@@chayalexanderwright nice setup. I love RME! I have the UCX ll and am waiting for my OctaMic2 to arrive. Those pres are stupendous.
@@PurpleMusicProductions thanks - yes, I agree… truly superb electronics
I'm SO happy I stopped using my UAD plugins and went full analog outboard gear. My mixes sound about 10 times better and I work much faster. I have most of the Wesaudio stuff and a Manley Elop+, and some other gear. No comparison. Have fun
Love yah Barry
Love my Rode’s, being from Oz
Very well put.
How it comes in determines how it comes out.
UA is great, if you can’t afford the equivalent hardware. I’m in that realm of mixing but seldom tracking, so for me ITB comes down to emulations & between UA & Softube Console I’ve found my happy place.
BTW I’m far older than you
Keep it up
Appreciate you!
Perfectly eloquent as always. Love the point that star engineer are mixing material that went already through amazing hardware chains to begin with. On the hand, the long term perspective is definitely that software will take over. I think that given long enough time and enough computational power, there is no reason to assume that software wouldn't be able to surpass the audio quality provided by hardware today. Every aspect of the difference that exists today, can be brought to such a minuscule difference that it will not matter anymore. I think the biggest, and most interesting challenge - who is going to build the most inspiring control surfaces that allow you to easily manipulate the software.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Does that also mean tube guitar amps will be history as well?
Barry, I like your videos. They are honest and straightforward. I completely agree. You can mix ITB and it will sound great, but if the tracks are recorded with great gear in a superb room, that's half the work done as the character is already there. Hat's off to the pro mixers using ITB but I wonder what they would do with tracks that are less than perfect ?. Still, you are right........have fun and, learn and make the best recording you can. It's still great.
Finay soneone cane out ammnd speaks the truth.
I have been telling so many of this for years. Why I never gave up my front-end high-end hardware . Why I worked so hard and put money into my recording space.
Great video! You made excellent points about the reality of 'professional' recordings. Another thing to add about Analog vs ITB is the workflow consideration. I find it much easier to turn knobs than to use a mouse. It also keeps my focus on my ears and not my eyes. I recently added the SSL UC-1 for that reason. (If you buy into the SSL ecosystem, it's a must have if you ask me. However, if you like different flavors such as API or Neve plugin channel strips, don't do it. Go for the Softube Console 1 instead.) I do also believe that you can push hardware more than you can software. You don't have to be as gentle or careful to not clip etc. For mixing purposes, I always recommend for ITBers to build an analog mix bus chain first and go from there. You mention using excellent hardware going in too, which I completely agree, is probably the first place to start.
Wonderful subject
Well said Barry!
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Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
100% spot on ! Chris Lord Alge has said the same in multiple interviews.
Very wise. Make great music first, upgrade if you have the bread, you learn a lot and enhance what you love.
I've been doing it all ITB since 2000 (mostly out of necessity since outboard gear was really expensive for me back then while plugins/VST's were more easily accessible), but I'm far from a pro studio. Today I use my AxeFX III straight into my interface and use all sorts of plugins/effects/vst's for everything else, and it works for me. This is the age old "digital vs analog" argument, which frankly is a bit of a dead horse. People who focus solely on digital can create outstanding productions. Folks who focus solely on analog do exactly the same. Best rule of thumb is simply use what you know and what works best for you. Not everyone needs analog, and likewise, not everyone likes/wants/needs digital. Just my $0.02. Value it what you paid for it.
Side note: The Texas Pete's hot sauce in the back ground is a nice touch. =)
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Hey Barry. What you said makes a lot of sense. I work with a drummer who puts down tracks for me and he has hi quality mics and and good preamps. I also track guitars and vocals in my studio. I have a separate room where I mic up my guitar cabinet and use decent mics. I also invested years ago in a Millennia HV-3C 2 channel preamp. Set me back about $1700 back then. It's very clean and transparent, doesn't really add color, but I could only afford one hi end preamp at the time, so I went for transparency, and told myself I could add some color via plug-ins after the fact. My goal was to get the cleanest sound input. I also use it for vocals which it's wonderful for and found a condenser mic that fits my voice perfectly. I don't compress my vocals on the way in because I don't own a good analog compressor at this point. I have an old FMR Audio RNC (Really Nice Compressor) but haven''t bothered trying it. My thought was given the headroom that we have with 24-bit audio, I should be able to compress after the fact. And that works in theory, but I wouldn't mind some of the color a nice outboard compressor could give me, and I may add that to my list.
One thing that's interesting to me, is that you're talking about *tracking* via good analog gear and that professional mix engineers are mixing in the box, but no discussion of summing. (I'm only 13 min into the video right now). Seems like there's a lot of discussion about combining tracks in the analog domain... and that's not really going to happen inside a computer, right? I know some guys get around that by using one of those Dangerous boxes to sum stems, etc.
Anyway... food for thought and you've definitely made me seriously think about an outboard compressor for vocal tracking. Thanks for the video.
Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Heres my take on it, about 7 years ago in the UK, a guy by the name of David Zowie knocked up a House track in Ableton, he mixed it himself on a laptop and mastered it using Ozone. That track currently has over 131 million views on youtube and it went to number 1 in the UK pop charts (the same charts Adele and harry styles go number 1 in). Electronic music can easily be knocked up in the box, not so sure a great rock song can !!!
Hi Barry. It would be great if you could talk about the same topic, but based on what can be achieved with cheap or mid-range hardware vs. stock interface pres and plugins, not so much Neve level, etc. Excellent video!
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
I can do that.
You're right most of those big name mixers got an easy job. They works on a great rought mix day in day out. They even barely process it. The multi-tracks was already processed to death on the way in during recording with high-end analog equipment.
I don’t think I meant they have an easy job, there is still a talent to creative mixing😁. But yes, they start will a great set of recorded tracks.
Once I heard that RND Masterbuss compressor on my rap vocals - it was over! And that was using Access Analog hardware over cloud technology so I recommend trying Access Analog forst to try before buy - All the way!
Hi Barry
I’m just a poor musician I have a small studio I use uad plugins I make the most of what I have.it’s my hobby and I enjoy it and your videos are great 👍👍
Rock on!
very imp video..
Barry, I love your videos and thanks for this one. Sorry... But, I have to chime in on this (Fairly Hot Take). All: Great recordings have absolutely nothing to do with great equipment being used while tracking. The performance is the whole thing. Listen to "Cheap Tragedies" by The Avengers. That's a horrible recording (with wrong notes) that totally holds up because the performance is totally honest and done with enormous intent. The UAD thing is "Bull". Plugins modeled after analog gear is "Bull". Great gear used for tracking is awesome if you can get it but an amazing band that's bringing it will always sound like an amazing band that's bringing it. Regarding "Out Of The Box" mixing: (Not Bragging about it) I have 48 inputs and outputs and a console... I mix in the box and out of the box regularly. I want to be very clear: If you don't like your "In The Box" mixes you WILL NOT like your "Out Of The Box" mixes. The difference between "In The Box" and "Out Of The Box" is like maybe 5%. DO NOT believe the lie that "Out Of The Box" is objectively better. Regarding Bus Compression: I have an analog bus compressor that sounds amazing. It's a heavily modified Chameleon 7720. I use it all the time and I love it. The Free TDR Kotelnikov CAN (Emphasis on "CAN") sound as good "In The Box". The idea that analog Bus Compression is objectively better is balderdash and born of a misuse of bus compression (Also this idea presupposes that you'll have amazing conversion to go out to the compressor and back.) This is audio elitist horse S@#*. Don't believe it.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
I’ve been recording and mixing since the 1960’s, and I’m here to tell ya that there is NO substitute for a great console. Mine is a great-grandchild of the consoles Malcolm Toft designed and built for his own Trident Studio in London’s West End. At his studio (which he built from the ground up), he recorded some of the most famous bands and vocalists in history. He used his studio for things like “Hey Jude” and “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”, to name just two of the HUNDREDS of records Mr. Toft recorded and mixed. My Trident 32-8 is simply a GREAT console. The sound of it has been favorably compared to the finest gear designed by Rupert Neve, and my Trident can certainly give you the results you’re after - IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY USE IT! When I learned how to record and mix, analog was all there was. Back then, you got good at using analog equipment, or you found something else to do. And of course, with a setup like this, you NEED outboard compressors, limiters and effects, because there are NONE of those things are in the console. I will NEVER go to tracking and mixing “in the box” because no matter what - even with all the plug-ins in the world - they’re NOT going to sound as good as the REAL HARDWARE the plug-ins are attempting to emulate. For compression/limiting, I never even THINK of using a plug-in, because I laid out the bucks for REAL ONES… like the 1176 compressor/limiter, even though the version I have two of was first introduced in 1967 (!), and was the first F.E.T. compressor/limiter EVER! I’ve listened to just about every plug-in there is - especially those that claim to emulate the 1176 - and NOTHING but the real thing SOUNDS LIKE THE REAL THING! And mics? I use any number of choices from my collection of Neumann, Sennheiser, Electro-Voice and Shure mics, along with a couple of antique RCA ribbon mics. Those sound amazing, and living where I do, it’s easy enough to take them to Wes Dooley in Pasadena, CA for repair. The classic RCA’s can be a bit fragile. So you handle them with care and take them to the shop when necessary. You can find Wes at www.RibbonMics.com. Once my RCA 77DX or my RCA 44BX have gone to visit Wes, they sound as good as they did the day they were made - the 44 was made in 1939, and the 77 was made in 1958! For mic preamps I have a number of those, so it’s a matter of using the preamp that acts the way you want it to, for recording whichever instrument or vocal, or whatever sound you’re using a mic to capture, on a particular day. The thing is simply that NOBODY was born knowing the right stuff. YOU must learn what’s right for whatever purpose you need a piece of equipment on a given day, or a given project.
Ain’t nobody reading that
@@michaelleto9296 😅
👀wow I thought I was back in school here, this isn't a comment this is a book! I started reading and then I saw more and say F__k that....
I once worked at a studio that had one of the best recording consoles over made. A Daniel Flickinger...very few still exist today.
@@TonyThomas10000 so?
Such great points. The more hardware I have included on my front end, the better my recordings have gotten.
Same here.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
I do agree 💯. Once I mixed a song from a platform that offers high quality track. Then I sent the main version mixed by the platefom's engineer and mine to people. They thought my version was best and denied my ability to deliver at that level. So I stopped getting audio materials from it and tried to mix the crappy sound( quality of recordings) people usually give me.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Great video Barry!! All of what you said is absolutely correct. My question is why is it so hard to get these points across to the in the box crowd? They ignore, bypass or fail to connect the dots that the tracks these famous mixers receive came from top shelf analog gear prior to the mixing stage? I mean even simple logic dictates that a $30 to $150 compressor plugin even from UAD cloned after a Teletronix will equal their hardware equivalent that costs $4 - 5k? That would essentially cut their own throats business wise. If this were true all of the major studios would just go entirely plugin to save money, BUT they don't, so that is what we call a clue.
That’s what I hope this video will do.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
I love your videos, but with all due respect you must not be familiar with how current rap and pop music is made. Most of the production is totally ITB, we cut vocals on Slate mics in hotel rooms and turn Air BnBs into studios. We master tracks on 7506's and get millions of streams that get our artists signed to the majors. I've been an engineer in Houston for 15 years and have been fortunate enough to take care of my family and see many artists, students, interns, and engineers go on to have successful careers primarily ITB. Don't get me wrong, I come from an analog background, I love my C800G, 1073, 1176 vocal chain, but I've got multiple former interns with Billboard hits, Grammy nominations, and gold records who produced tracked mixed and mastered totally ITB, so I have to call cap! Your perspective may be genre specific, Since 2017 Rap has been the dominant music genre in the US according to Billboard. A big reason for its dominance is because we've switched to more ITB processes. We have to work so fast and generate so much content now its ridiculous. Bands can't create content as fast as single producers can. Music directors for major networks like Netflix work with more freelance production studios now. We have hit the ITB singularity in my lifetime that's why icons like Scheps and Brauer can work on headphones and a laptop. Please don't mistake my passion for disdain! Your channel is amazing and I look forward to every post! @idreaminstereo
I understand that and all of my topics are not going to apply to everything.
Yes ITB can be fast and get some good results. However, most producers in hiphop or who do things ITB in general. Aren't tracking much accept vocals, if even that. They aren't playing real live instruments, or live drums, or really recording and mixing hardly anything, if anything at all. They're using samples, more samples, more samples, and VSTs, which are made from samples. All of which were recorded by someone else likely using analogue or a hybrid setups, played by real musicians, who come up with their own original musical ideas. "Producers" these days, hardly ever play real instruments. At best maybe dick around on midi keyboard, but can't really play. They just take loops and samples that someone else created using a real instrument, recorded on real gear, and then mixed and mastered on real gear. Then a producer downloads their work, drags and drops it into their DAW, mostly makes it worse with their bit of "mixing", and really the overall quality suffers, and doesn't sound original at all. Half the time these bedroom producers can't even tell when something sounds digital, artificial, or just bad, because they don't know anything else. I'd love to see one of those hip hop producers, actually make something themselves. Meaning, write it all, no copying, no loops, samples, no prerecorded anything, no chord packs, just true original unplagerized work they did 100% alone. Play all the instruments, no VSTs, and then mix, and master that alone. If they can do that then I'll say yeah you're right. But they don't, not because in the box is better, it's because they can't. Which is why all of todays hiphop and edm, all sounds exactly the same. It's all the same samples, 808s, kicks, drops, and loops that someone else did the real skilled work on, writing, playing, recording, mixing and mastering. Then the bedroom producer downloads it or buys a pack. Then they just slap it to a grid, quantize it, and call it good. Thats why it all sounds like the same crap and you can finish a song ten mins, because they don't really make anything. And why people think ITB is so great, because most of them can't make music any other way. Because they aren't really producing music, without using countless other peoples work and claiming it as 100% theirs.
@@camerone.6839 Your anti hip hop bias is showing, but it doesn't address the countless number of people in other genres doing great work ITB. With a few quality outboard pieces for tracking, and some skill, people are getting the job done every day. It's not the 90s any more. In 2022, it's being done daily.
When the big boys get a demo thats going to be big it sees the best gear period no matter the type. Yes there are a few exceptions same as every thing in life . Just like winning the lottery.
All the samples originally came from analog recordings 🤷🏿♂️ Already has a lotta of texture, tubes, or transformers.
mastering with gear I've reached 3.2 lufs without clipping...ITB 7.0 lufs close to clipping and a very flat frequency response
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
Billie Eilish and her brother, Finneas, produced her Grammy winning record in a bedroom studio on Logic. Of course, they also used a top of the line UA interface and a Neumann mic. Like you said, there are examples of this. I think their tunes were mixed/mastered elsewhere, however. (I’ve never heard any of it, so can’t vouch for its quality, etc. Not my cup of tea.)
Recording is always the most important phase.
How come Barry doesn't have 1 million subscribers?
One day at a time, thanks for your support!
BROSKI!!!! I LOOVVVVVVVE your channel!!!! Keep them coming!!! #YouCantPutLipstickOnaPig!!🤪🤣🤪🤣❣️❣️❣️❣️💯👍🏿🤪🤣🤪🤣🤪❣️
Recorded with great gear, in a great studio. But most importantly, great music, well written, played by great musicians.
Can’t polish a turd lads.
new on this chanel, such a pleasure to have discovered it, although the first video was against UAD and I just ordered their apollo twin a minutes before :P but I don't agree that song can be hit only if it's recorded in a professional studio. Take for example Charlie Puth-Attention song which has almost 1.5 Bilion views and the main instrument is bass, which is from Trillian bass plugin, guitars are recorded at home and drums are samples. Do you think average listener care? The views tells it all. It was also a hit all over the world
I did not say it has to be to be a hit, what I said was the overwhelming majority of it “was” done with analog tracking.
Does that make sense? Thanks for watching I really appreciate it!
@@BarryJohns you are right, that's why I subscribed here
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Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
@@twitch451 interesting!
I think that there is only one standard. No one who listens seriously to music is going to be satisfied with anything less than excellence. They are not going to cut someone slack becuse it was recorded in a home studio.
Your most essential point is well taken ----- The performance is the essential component. Everything else is secondary - important but secondary. Moreover, the performance must be captured competently.
There are a lot of good songs that were tracked without analog equipment.
Lately I've been feeling bad. I only use my analog gear on my vocals. And i do all my mixing and mastering with plugins. And i keep feeling like I should do all of it with analog but i love the ease and comfort of using plugins in the box. what do you think.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
UAD keeps telling me to switch the time compensation on which adds latency completely defeating the purpose of why I purchased it for tracking. Preamp, compressor and tape plugins are impossible to chain
Probably could mix a bass drum and someone rhyming all in the box and have it sound like 70% of whats released.... but the top ears are that for a reason. One example mix bus tv. He uses hardware to mix an master hip-hop to be competitive . You can pound nails with a hammer or rock one is cheaper yes
You're right. I tried to get that character digitally but once I bought some units I was like omg this is it. So yea no matter how great the plugin is it is still slightly inferior to the cheapest analog unit. I track thru my units then use plugins after or in conjunction
What do u think abt the new Clarett plus8 vrs a red 16 when it comes to going out an back in through say a stam mix bus compressor. Specs look different not to sure but headroom i desire.....
The Clarett is very good at its price point, but Red series is on another level and it gives you a lot of versatility you may want later.
@@BarryJohns is that Clarett seriously 26db input level on line ins with 118 dr.? On the red im not sure im reading it correctly it say 18 or 24 db not sure if thier saying thats little less?
Great video- nobody mentions tracking and all the work before a mix even hits the desk. Plugins are amazing and certain ones I believe match their hardware equivalents, but there is still a noticeable difference in most.
That elusive console magic th-cam.com/video/Wpj92a3OFgo/w-d-xo.html
Analog vs. Digital summing th-cam.com/video/wVp4syrFkE0/w-d-xo.html
Even just to lay your track through a console and send it straight back into the box and only use plugins to mix would make a HUGE difference than just recording through your interface and mixing it all in the box. Even a buss compressor and buss processor makes a huge difference for people that just wants a couple items and do everything else in the box.
Very little difference.
@@Rialas lol yeah thats why people spend thousands on analog gear right? So they can accomplish a mix that you can get on your focusrite scarlett solo right? “Just use the cracked version of waves its the same as the real gear!”
@@michaelrice6620 you ain’t going to change my mind. Times have changed.
@@Rialas aye bro if it works for you than do your thing! Dont let nothing i say mean anything if your happy with your results thats all that ultimately matters. All i know is when i do everything straight through itb it usually sounds pretty thin and sterile. N throwing 20 plug ins on each track gets pretty annoying pretty quick.
get a summing unit for the iTB. I like the ssl sigma (ive tried 8816, dangerous 2bus, and ssl sigma) - it brings that 3d sound. The sigma does something that my neve 8816 doesnt do, it makes it sound hifi and like a record. I also didnt like the dangerous 2bus much. Each to their own - but a good sound interface that has many buffer size options (up to 4098 is useful for mixing) and also get sounding convertors, I am a fan of the Orion. So many times I think 'maybe its just me' but then I realise that theres a massive market for plugins, yes they are awesome tools but no they aren't hardware yet. Acustica is pretty tasty though , with a summing unit. Just my unprofessional opinion here, I do have some top brand analog gear and it is night and day really if Im honest.
Seems to be a day of "speaking truth". Barry first, then I saw this: "Why Aren't Producers Talking About THIS?" on YT.
I am very,very new to recording,but I get what you are saying…That’s how I feel about modeling versus real amps and cabs….I will take a real amp and mic’ed up cab over a simulation any day of the week…..There is a 3D quality that you can’t replicate…..I can see where recording is much the same way…although there are exceptions to everything….
I usually agree with your takes but I’m not sure you need the great tracking via hardware when Native Instruments has very well sampled instruments that can be played via electric drum kids and midi keyboards. A natural sound can come through well sampled vsts as well imo. That’s the beauty of this evolving industry
Not necessarily. In a pro studio those tracks would be sent out and processed with a analog gear. Also, don’t always believe the “properly sampled” or however they advertise.
It’s easy, as cool as something like Superior Drummer is, it doesn’t hold a candle to well tracked drums.
Amazing for ideas, but a finished song that’s gets in the charts, I’d be a fluke.
I own multiple sample libraries and I use them all the time…..never, ever, really really never leave them in processed. Kontakt, Omnivoroussphere, etc. they are all great, but not straight out of the player.
@@BarryJohns you are absolutely right in that those libraries are not mixed well right out of the box, but after some in-the- box mixing, you can get a pretty great sounding recording. This conversation is also genre specific as well.
The majority of the music being made today is not worthy of high-end audio gear...and they end up smashing the audio to bits to make it louder than everyone else. Very few people own audiophile grade gear that can pick out the nuances. In-the-box is just fine and much better than what we had decades ago in the majority of cases. And consider the fact that a lot of music is created and mixed completely in the digital domain.
This is a huge misconception. Even if it were accurate, don’t you want to learn? It always repeats itself every 10 years or do where all that changes and different styles take over. We are already seeing a deck in in electronic music, but we will see I guess.
@@BarryJohns I have been recording since the early 70s and have worked with tons of analog gear (tube gear with transformers was incredibly cheap back then). While I can certainly see the value of using great preamps and even tube compressors when recording, I also understand all of the downsides of using analog gear. I have been working in the box exclusively since the 90s and have no interest in going back to analog gear, especially given the expense and maintenance involved. All it is really doing is adding noise and distortion anyway (and that can be replicated in the digital domain). By the way, I used to write for Mix, Recording, Electronic Musician, etc. I used to cover the LA Studio scene and have been to a lot of top studios.
@@TonyThomas10000 Tony we are not taking for anything other than tracking and the mix buss which don’t require any recall, so I’m a little confused about the problematic workflow, I don’t have any issues. We both know that if it’s properly gain stages the noise is minimal and if anything adds to the mix when done right.
It’s surprising to me that someone with your experience doesn’t acknowledge this. I can certainly understand if someone doesn’t have a desire it honestly, it makes a difference when recording mostly analog. Just my thoughts.
@@BarryJohns Again, I have no problem with using quality preamps at the A/D stage. However, I am not a proponent of bringing audio back into the analog domain via mixing on analog consoles or analog summing gear. Even the best analog gear introduces noise and distortion (even though you may like the pleasing sound of that noise and distortion). All you need to do is view the input vs. the output on an oscilloscope and see the square waves (LOL). You can easily add square waves and harmonics with algorithms and most people will never know the difference (or even care).
@@TonyThomas10000 on that point I completely agree
I like to record di and add color as if it’s through a preamp. ITB. lol
Yep, you can’t have a great mix with out great tracks.
Man if you’ve upset some people with the truth…OH WELL!!!
Yep
Hi Barry! Just want to confirm if you are not hacked and actually giving away prizes on Telegram to a select few?
I got the same message and even started talking to someone saying they were Barry. so it would be nice for some clarification on that, because that would be awesome if I did win something lol
Hacked
Hacked
@@BarryJohns Please do something about this before a lot of of your followers loose money and trust
This is why God created access analog ..hardware in the cloud. Drop your tracks through that and you will ditch most of your plugins. Relatively small amount of cost involved vs buying all that gear. Mixing on analog gear is quicker because most settings are usable. Plugins take so much tweaking.
Firstly totally agree with what was written by “ I dream in stereo,” earlier
Nonsense claim having £20,000 recording chain into box is necessary for mass appeal / hits. Even Taylor Swift had millions of sales where her vocal was on a cheap Chinese £500 to £1,000 valve mic. The end result sold being low quality MP3 or whatever crap Apple tunes uses for aax?
Would you say no to Clash albums that sold millions because the vocal was captured on cheap gear? It’s not supposed to sound like Sinatra Streisand.
The sex pistols versus dire straits, the Clash versus Fleetwood Mac, Motor Head versus Steely Dan. One bunch of artists very Shure SM58 and SM57 the other bunch all best microphone and hardware recording chains money can buy. Mostly to satisfy very afraid people, A&R bragging rights in the persuasion to save A&R jobs and make sales.
OooooO pointed at me barrrrrryyyy?
Love you :)
Have a JP-8080 in front of me mi amor.
No Barry you are not just like me, you are a god :)
Ok slow down, back down to earth here, just another guy my friend😁. Thank you very much for the support!!
Hi Barry. Can you produce my album. Thanks
Brother, I wish I had time, sorry, but I am so slammed. I can barely make enough TH-cam videos to keep going and do my regular job and plus I’ve got other passions I pursue too. I’m a busy busy guy. Best of luck, when you do get it finished, let me have a listen.
@@BarryJohns Thanks. I wanted to recreate the magic of the Throwing Copper album by Live. (mid 90's) tape sound. Especially those drums
1st ❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks Jerry!
@@BarryJohns, thank you for telling the truth.,
Ppl need to hear this.
I started mixing in studios on large format SSL (later the occasional Neve) consoles in the mid 80's. A musician friend who got into recording in 2000 continually argues with me, claiming analogue is "nice but not necessary". After 10yrs of arguing with him I've come to the conclusion that people at the "beginner to intermediate level"' of recording CHOSE to believe that 100% in the box is "just as good" as analogue mixing and/or recording because they NEED to believe it. They've either; never experienced analogue recording and/or they can not fathom spending the kind of money required to get to the next level., or simply can't afford it. They look for people & videos that validate their opinion. - Truth be told, a song can be a hit if the song is amazing & recorded on cassette. But there are VERY few hit songs out there at the Porta Studio level of recording. ..... 90% of what we record & mix as professional engineers is "good to great" performances on "okay to pretty-good" songs. Most of what's heard on the radio or streamed is just that..., "ok to pretty-good" songs. Professional production, mixing & mastering through analog or analogue-digital combination is really the lipstick on most of the pigs that get airplay. VERY few professional recordings that get airplay are 100% in the box these days. -- And if the artist happens to get a hit based on this marginal recording, you can believe that their next records WILL be done professionally. "In the box" is the cheap way, that seldom reaps success. It's just a fact.
Well said and honestly the purpose of the video, but I still get the deniers. All I can do is try to help them be soul at a time😜
Your debate is so passé…. Seriously, we’re not in 2000 or 2010 anymore. We can do it all ITB and no one will notice it… that’s what we’ve been doing for over a decade now!
Brother honest question, did you really watch the whole video? The vast majority of music literally being recorded today, when I say today, I literally mean today. It’s overwhelmingly recorded through analog gear in a major studio.
It’s extremely rare, I mean extremely rare for a session created originally ITB by an artist that that song will remain un touched. They may use some of it, but a record company will demand it be re-recorded with a producer and arranger to actually take what the artist thought was done, in a completely different direction with professional players, etc. Please don’t live in a bubble.
I also said over and over, wait, you didn’t actually watch the video, so you wouldn’t know I said that, hum, well here is what I said over and over and over and over again throughout the video, everyone can create very good recordings all in the box.
If you watched the video you’d know that I’m talking minimal hardware. I made it very clear, but you wouldn’t know that, that using analog in you master buss will make a huge difference, just watch my previous video demonstrating that, also, I’m sure you agree that adding good outboard external mic preamps is also valuable, as surly you would never think that the preamps on an interface are sufficient, and please don’t mention the UAD Unison snake oil nonsense, been there done that, better than using most stock preamps for sure and if I did not have a good preamp I’d use it, but that tech does not perform the same as great preamps.
So what am I talking here, we’ll at least one outboard compressor will make pretty big difference in tracking. Got plenty of videos demonstrating that. So, exactly what specific point is it you disagree with?
Let me bring up the whole todays popular music is all virtual instruments and sample, let me say the world is a big place, and the majority of music consumed globally is done with real musicians, real instruments, through real analog gear then mixed mostly ITB. Nothing wrong with electronic music I like it as much as anyone else.
You know the whole TH-cam thing and a billion users…..just sayin….
Last point, the “MAJORITY” of all of my work today and for a very long time is IN THE BOX! I’m just wise enough and experienced enough to know, there are omtools out there that will improve my recordings, and I’m all about doing the very best I can.
Still, you must have at least a great mic, great audio interface, a great preamp (optional) and great monitors. $$$. Funny to see some people saying Audio Technica AT2020 sounds so good, even Billie Eilish's "Ocean eyes" was recorded on it, yada yada, and ignoring the fact all them upgraded their music hardware when they went serious with music. Is Billie still recording on AT2020? No. With a Telefunken 251. An $11k mic. Of course not connected in a $200 audio interface. And for sure, there is a preamp. And a lot of similar examples. If really no need in expensive preamps, mics, nobody will buy them. With ITB you can, for sure, achieve almost same result, a result unobservable for 99,9%. But isn't it good when you can achieve (afford) that perfection and go all 100%? Most artists are perfectionists, even if sometimes and they will hardly tell a difference, but THE FACT you know your music is recorded the best way possible, without any almost, even if that almost is less than 2-5% difference in quality (often observable only in AB tests) warms their heart. That is sometimes more of a psychological thing, but it matters. And it's more a question of "should engineers care about that little difference almost no one will notice and be perfectionists, or they should be more practical and say: -If almost no one is noticing, should I do the extra, should I spend $ for extra? or a "good enough" is enough?". Everyone is deciding for themselves.
Talk about crappy songs, I disagree.
Just think Modest Mouse. That is an analog deck worked to its maximum.
As much of a stab that is.
I say, "a fart will sound good being played through a tube" (military grade specifically).
🫶❤️🇵🇭
SISO
In case anyone is curious (probably not), I'm sort of hybrid. I record analog up until I go line in to a UA interface (no UA preamps or preamp plugins). I mix 100% ITB (I do use some VIs at times, but I run them through analog hardware and commit that prior to mixing).
If you want to sound EVEN better, then yeah don't track with analog compression and eq. Mix with it! If you know what you're doing, mixing using analog processing beats tracking through it then mixing with plugins. How can that be??!? . When you track through compression and eq you ARE mixing. You are just mixing before the fact and stuck with what you do. Not all the sounds are there yet during this time and though the gear will give you the tone you're decisions just can't be as good during recording as they can be when you can take your time and have all the tracks. Then you're using plugins to try and correct what has been done to make it work. It can be done of course but you'll be trying to re-compress audio that has the wrong attack and release, eqing tracks that have phase shifts from that eq and then introducing more from the correct processing. If you want to compete with these pros that are doing the "convenient" method described by Barry you CAN beat them at their own game doing what I've said and you can do it with a single stereo compressor and eq by re-recording tracks out and in one at a time through that chain. You will beat them because all your decisions take the full completed song into account and are focused solely on mixing and not recording. You have to be good of course. The mentioned "pro mixers" are being lazy for the sake of efficiency which = more $ for them.
Kinda disheartening. Probably true about hardware. Makes me question what I'm spending my time and money on. I can't or want to spend that much on hardware. Guess it's better to have my bubble bursted now than later
You do not need hardware to make great recordings, don’t concern yourself with it. Have fun, make music!
Get to the punchline quicker!
The channel is called Studio Talk and there were tons of things to help people. Remember, not everyone is at the same stage as you. What’s obvious to you is not to others, just read through the comments. Yours has been the only negative one.
@@BarryJohns Well if you think my comment is negative, that is un true. It’s a positive comment. Our team reviews and rates about 20 hours of videos a week. A significant bit of that work is in electronics and music related.
As we spend our time which is a premium, just like any other person who watches a video on this platform our time is precious. We value it a lot.
I could probably give a list of 10 other recommendations that would help improve the workflow of your videos to have a greater impact with your message & education.
We find the people who make cat videos as well as creators who use a lot of Superfluous B-roll in their videos, to be the most difficult to deal with.
So we appreciate 100% what you do. Thank you for your time and response. Keep it up we ❤️ it.
@@universalvibe72 here’s the thing, I don’t really care about growing my channel. Actually, I could give a darn about it. If people wanna watch it, they can watch it.
I could care less if I make a dime from it. The only reason, I repeat the only reason I do this channel is to honestly help people. I don’t need the money. I make a very, very good living.
If your advice was accurate, I wouldn’t have grown as rapidly as I have. The need to put everybody into a box, it’s just not the way forward. That’s the way backward. Regardless, I’m very happy with my channel the way it is, as are, the vast majority of my viewers.
@@BarryJohns wow some people cannot take a compliment! We never once mentioned anything about growing your channel. Only thing I recommended you investing your time into better ways of delivering your message to the individual user like ourselves, who spend our precious time. The cat video comment was humor. And was not analogously directed towards anyone.
Luckily we found the unsubscribe button. Take care
A good quality interface is all you need. Stop obsessing over gear. Pick up a guitar and chill out.
Did you watch the whole video?
@@BarryJohns I have to confess I watched 3/4s 😀. I’ll watch again till the end 👍
have you actually spent a lot of time using or own good quality analogue gear, along with your interface? Most of these comments like yours sound like you're talking straight out your ass or just repeating stuff you read. Put a good quality preamp with an EQ in front of your interface and I guarantee you will eat your words. Recording through a decent interface is usually fine for years. Until your ears develop a bit more. After a decade or so, you''ll really start to hear where an interface alone really comes up short. The difference can sometimes seem subtle until it doesn't and then you can't unhear the lacking areas, it'll drive you nuts. Also having some decent mics and knowing how to use and place them properly makes a huge difference in quality.
@@camerone.6839 ass? Rubbish. You only have to listen to those that praise the virtues of expensive outboard hardware then listen to the drum samples they use and programming and you just realise what a joke this game is.
@@Rialas that is not what’s happening. Many including myself will add a sampled drum from time to time for a different character being blended in.
Look, it’s easy, I’ve got many videos where I demonstrate hardware vs plug-ins, go watch them and try to be objective. Listen for yourself, your perspective will likely change. Again, I am not and have never suggested that someone “needs” hardware to make great recordings, I said that several times in the video.
Ask yourself are all the hardware manufacturers and customers of that gear totally clueless? What’s the odds that they are all wrong.
Look at how booming young companies like Warm Audio, Stam Audio, Audio-scape etc, they have built their business by making more affordable hardware.
I’m a lot of things, but stupid is not one of them. I can “Clearly” hear a difference, and it’s big. I am not in the habit of throwing away my money for no reason. Remember, I’ve been at this since I was 15 and I’m 58 today, I’ve experienced a lot over that time.
Luckily this person who is not in any way a professional in the industry is not right on this topic. These music tech TH-camrs have gotten out of hand
Whet exactly fo you disagree with?
@@BarryJohns that you need to track through expensive hardware to make music that has "wide appeal of people"
@@gigifara9312 you did not watch the video, that is now clearly obvious. I stated several times very very clearly that that is not the case. What I said was that just about all popular music consumed today world wide is tracked through amazing hardware. Not everything but most. Remember there is a “LOT” if music that is consumed outside your personal preferences.
The comments are clear if you read through them. I knew I’d get some people who would start to comment just seeing the title and I said as much on the video. Then you e got a handful that will watch for 30 seconds and think they can size things up. Impossible.
I also said that some will have their feathers ruffled because they don’t want to hear anything other than what they have “chosen” to believe.
Just some advice, if you are going to say someone doesn’t know what they are talking about try to intelligently discuss each actual point and not sling some nonsense to make you feel better.
Sorry to be so rough, but I can have a debate without personal attacks.
@@BarryJohns i did watch the whole video. i promise you that. i didn't sling any personal attacks... i did say you were not a professional in the industry. you yourself say this in the video. the reason songs with wide appeal are often recorded through that equipment is because it is what is in the studios, so why not use it..... you heard a difference.. good for you.. a lot of people do.. is that difference better? a very debatable topic... do people who don't obsess over this care over that difference? the answer to that is almost always no..
@@gigifara9312 if you honestly want to know and not hang on to your current perceptions, just go watch some of the videos where I demonstrate the difference. If you honestly think you can’t hear it, then fine.
Also, no business, and I mean no business buys or keeps gear/equipment that does not generate revenue or labor reduction.
Here is why I’m not a so called professional, I’ve worked hard my whole life have built an excellent career where I make way more than I ever could in audio.
Now how I did that considering I barely graduated high school, zero college, nothing but hard work where from my youth I clearly understood I can learn from others, especially those that have navigated life well before me.
If you actually believe that someone who has done this for over 30 years and been obsessed about it that whole time, that I have nothing to teach people. Seriously.
I do not need to do this channel, I need zero money from it. No I’m not rich, but I am comfortable.
I “ONLY” do this to help people. Fine if you don’t want it, I have no issue with that. That said I will call out what I perceive as incorrect points. Please know that you still have not argued against a single point I made, just slinging mud. Sadly I see this in some people and I knew I was going to have to deal with the deniers. I said so in the video, oh well, all good. My feelings are intact😁
Maybe you need to open you mind, if you can I can assure you, you will gain much more valuable knowledge.