Outboard Hardware - What You Need To Know
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I was a recording engineer in LA during the 70s. We used everything in both tracking and mixing. Use them a little in tracking and use them less in mixing.
He is right that the majority of people right now are only using outboard gear during production, but in the near future that will change. Due to the fact that consoles are becoming obsolete, plus the affordability of home studios, and also the fact that gear is so accessible. In the near future the Music industry will change into what it used to be back in the 1940-1980's. Where musicians would seek out certain studios because that studio had a specific sound that no other studio had. Not so long ago each geographic region had a defined sound, there was the New York sound, the LA sound, the London sound, the southern sound and..ect. Basically back then if you were a band/artist the reason why you picked a studio was because that studio had a certain sound that you could only find there, and you couldn't find it anywhere else.
In the Near Future this will become a part of the recording industry again. Since every one has access to the same plug ins and everyone has the same quality of software. Recording studios will start promoting that their studio's point of difference from every other studio is some hot rodded piece of outboard gear that you can only find at their studio. In the next five years more and more people will start marketing that they have some modded piece of gear or collection of gear that separates their studio from everyone else, and if you want that specific sound you have to go to their studio. This will cause for studios to have their secret sauce, and outboard gear will play a huge role in separating joe in the box from jack in the box.
- ANG - April 7th 2023
Absolutely my go to these days! Track analog, mix in the box.
Always love your videos. I’m always learning new things from you. So thank you and keep it up!
Barry, I really appreciate the way you explain all things audio.
Thank you for the wisdom. I also gather from the professionals such as yourself that each stage of subtle compression adds sonic value. You clarified many reasons for why “it depends.”👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👋🏼
Soo useful. It helps to keep mind clear. Especially in beginning. Strategy is the key. Thank you!
I totally jacked up a drum recording I did by adding reverb on the mixer, I learned a valuable lesson about burning effects that suck on the way in.... Great videos!
Loving this content Barry. I just discovered you yesterday. I am 'all in' to upgrade my project studio for tracking only so this is encouraging. What I have not yet dipped my toes in, is with re-amping, as much of the recording I do involves very effected electric guitar. All I have done to date is putting down guitar as is, and maybe doing a little mixing in box (adding reverb, panning, EQ, mastering compression, etc., but hopefully minimally). Yes indeed, mastering the input side of it is where I want to live and develop more.
Another very good Topic! and YES your Audio come across very Clean! Thank you Barry. George Amodei
YESSSS!!! All my outboard is for traking , very good pres and channel strips and off course the best microphones and a very good room
Have to say your spot on, very good points made. I so rarely send anything back out to analogue now. I want to but it is just so easy in the time I have to just do the mix all with plugins in the box. Just so quick. Such a change in workflow to how it used to do be done for me in the 90's with tape and mix desk sends and returns. All was fine unless back then you had to bounce tracks and commit. To free up tracks for further recording of tracks. DAW recording for me is a project and time saver. I really would like to get back into using my analogue gear far more often in the mix process not just the tracking. Food for thought and thank you Barry.
Very helpful! I have no outboard gear at the moment, I mostly play jazz and jazz-adjacent music (largely acoustic sources when I record) and have been trying to get a more fully functional recording setup in my practice studio. I just watched your video on why DSP is irrelevant in the era of apple silicon, and then just watched this one now, and I feel like I have actually a really good framework and understanding of WHY I would need X piece of hardware, or a computer upgrade, or the right plugins or whichever at the right time for the right reasons. That level of thoroughness and answering the why question especially in clickbaity TH-cam world I found very helpful, so thank you very much!
I’ve been bingeing on your videos lately, and I’ve learned so much. I want to start getting some outboard gear and, with my current budget, decided to get some Camden EC1 mic pre’s on sale, and a Neve Portico II MBP for the 2 bus. Hopefully I’m starting off right! Just want to show some appreciation for what you’re doing here. Be well!
I just found out about that a Super Thanks even existed, so I'm sorry its take long to respond, I had no idea you had done this. Thank you so much, I truly appreciate the support!
So great that you talked about the history of the 500 series - very interesting
I use EZ Bass and EZ Drummer (and sometimes Addictive Drums) which are both recorded in studios with microphones and presumably very professional set-ups. I record my guitar and vocals with good mics that I have purchased and I always run them through some nice 500 series pieces or a WA-273-EQ and. the WA76. Everything sounds great this way. When I'm mixing, I sum everything through an 8-channel hardware summing mixer (D-Box+) and then out the stereo channels and through a pair of 500 pre-amps, RND. 551s. and. the WA Bus-Comp - it sounds so good. That said, very few people listen to my music BUT even if millions listen to it, most of them would be listening through Air Pods or some other headphones or a car stereo. Great home stereos have become rare. In my situation, all of this stuff is for me to ENJOY listening to as I track and mix my music, and ultimately master as well.
using solid converters and analog summing, etc all seem like little differences but they add up. its like the saying "blessing to death from a thousand paper cuts". The sum of small quality differences compound at the print. one thing ive learned and its that even if listened to as an mp3 at 320 it will still sound better if the source material is proper. im doing a mix down with an RME FS unit and it sounds gorgeous. even ni the car ha ha. keep on keeping on. and by the way, im my own biggest fan of my music too. I get SO much enjoyment listening to songs tailor made just for me :).
Spot On! Track through analog gear and master with a analog master bus. Tracking is really a one time deal same with mastering where as mixing can be ongoing for months.
Thank you Barry!!! awesome content
Thank u so much for this video. I’ve been stressing about what I’m going to do to match industry standards and was debating doing all my tracking in a studio and then mixing that in the box at home OR buying a few units to individually run everything out to and printing in order to give my songs that warmth and feel that is subtle but very noticeable when AB’d w a digital mix.
Hi Barry! Great video! I have around 24U of outboard in my home studio. It's a 50/50 split between FX and Dynamics. It mostly gets used to augment my analog synths, which don't have any FX. The one really good compressor I have, I ocasionally use as a master bus comp. I do love to mine for sounds on the Analog Synths, then build complete patches with he FX/Dynamics. It's great fun.
Well said! Great info Barry! 👊🏾💯
This is great Barry! Suggesting to start with outboard on the mix bus is excellent advice. It does make a difference. Another suggestion with hardware is to make definitive choices about where and what you want to use it for. I try and make hardware purchases that are good for recording and mixing. However, preamps are always a good purchase if you’re doing lots of recording. But in terms of signal processing, you can record into a distressor or an 1176 with two different sources then use those two pieces of gear in the mixing process on other tracks. If youre limited to a few items i tend to pick which tracks i want to go analog (usually vocals and drum bus) and which ones i choose to stay digital (backup vox and pads). As long as your DAW is set up correctly i actually find the workflow to be easier with hardware at times. But maybe because thats what i started with…
Solid points!
Exactly what I needed.
Thank you Barry, Finally going HYBRID :) i only owned the NEVE "Shelford Channel" all these few yrs. but know I need to spend more $$$ to get a Great/Good? Quality Sound to get my MIXES to sounds Lot better than they have been coming out for you guys:) Thank You again, George Amodei
I don’t know what took me so long to subscribe and set notifications.. maybe because I always see your videos on my feed lol but you got my sub today thank you 🙏🏾
one of the most basic uses for outboard hardware is processing vocals on the way in. ive got an optical unit and it gives me the vocal performance I just cannot get out a plugin. I use the same unit on the mix bus with a roundtrip fro the DAW and its just magic.
Solid information
Very interesting video! I agree that outboard hardware mic preamps, equalizers and compressors are the fundamental tools for analog tracking.You can't go wrong with a Neve 1073 preamp, 1176 compressor and a Pultec EQ. These have stood the test of time. You don't have to have these brands - just these types of hardware. I also think an analog 2-mix bus with stereo eq and comp can really help a mix sound great. I would like to ask if you can discuss mixing in-the-box recommendations and what you think of control surfaces. From my experience, I seem to understand tracking better than mixing. I still find Pro Tools a bit overwhelming! BTW, your videos are really good.
Good Stuff! I'm currently at that particular point in my studio setup as of now, I've been fortunate enough to have used all the gear that I'm considering purchasing and incorporating into my setup, the only thing I haven't used is the Flock Audio software controlled analog patchbay.
It’s pricey
The example about the visual appeal of a standard rack vs the 500 series is so true as a noob lol
You got yourself a new subscriber!
Suuuper interesting and helpful video Barry! ,Can you do more videos about tracking please?that part when you said that the first eq is when you know how to combine a mic with a pre, was 💡for me. Im a jazz drummer trying to record myself and my piano trio, also if its possible, can you make a video of how to mic a vertical piano? Im not getting the sound that i want and there are not too manny videos about the topic.
Again, thanks a lot for doing this videos!
Hey Barry 👋, luvya work.... because you asked ... if cost was not a factor, what would be your tracking chain into the box for synths like moog sub37, asm hydrasynth and roland TR8s drum machine? Lots of info on the usuals gtr , 🥁 and vocals but line level signals just go straight in
Hi great video! Why do you choose snare as 2nd most important? I wasn't expecting that.
Tracking is everything, mics really important, no matter what your outboard you can't polish a turd.
Barry! Another good video. However I have questions😂. Should I be concerned with compressing all those digital tracks down to a digital stereo main bus? Seems like digital can only capture so many bits of info going to a stereo bus. However if each of those tracks had an output to an analog mixer then mix the analog the to a stereo input back on the interface seems a fuller sound would be accomplished? This topic has me staring at sweet water gear indefinitely.
OMG, Barry! I had a revalation yesterday with my 1176! I've been tracking vocals through it and a couple other hardware pieces for over a year now. The noise has always been annoying to deal with, but I've gotten around it. I honestly don't know why nobody talks about hardware hiss.
Anyways... Yesterday, I set it up on a hardware insert to my DAW....and 🤯! I fed it a hotter (and obviously cleaner, since it's from the DAW) signal than what my standalone 1081 clone could ever dream of mustering, and my 1176 clone (not a KT) came to life for the first time before my very ears! I'll never try to track through it again! Not unless I'm feeding it with some fiendishly juicy console outs or something.
The problem you were having tracking is gain staging that is not as important when working with digital, it critical with analog. The problem you were most likely having in tracking is your mic pre output was not hot enough.
Came across your channel! Thanks for being honest in your opinions. I write music on a modular synth. I’m currently in a position to buy a new interface to start recording but questioned if it would be better for me to make a 500 series lunch box and track into a daw. Would you suggest where I would start, what higher end interfaces to look into, or what type of pre amps are appropriate for sending my modular line level through (I hope I wrote this clearly enough for you to understand)
Hi Barry, what do you think of the Wes Audio 500 series stuff? Analog gear with digital recall. Specifically for mix buss.
I'll open up by saying i think you have some of the best content on the subject period. so in the interest of boosting your channel ill give you my 2 cents.
If you’re using hardware for tracking I expect a decent set of mics should come before the eq/ compressor. Jmo. I’m also not convinced a neve “style “ mic pre is important at the 1st purchase stage. I’d argue a really nice modern pre like a grace m101 or an Avalon v5 are better choices since they will give you the highest quality signal vs a cloned color. If you can afford a high-end Neve then great Still if I had just 800 to work with I’d go with the grace and put an emulation itb.
Hi Barry I agree a lot with you. I mainly do mixing so I don't record and I have no interest in buying analog for tracking and I completely agree with you that outboard for mixing means buying a lot of staff that gets barely used. I was thinking lately to buy something for my mixbus especially a combo stereo comp + eq. in particular I'm looking at the tegeler creme bus, that combines ssl comp and pultec or the ssl fusion that has also drive and stereo imager. do you have any experience and/or which one would you choose? thanks for your help
No tangents, this is gold stuff.
Good convo
Hi Barry, you are awesome! I learn a lot from you. I have a project studio. I need top class vocal chain.I need mic pre probably 1073 style, need pultec style eq and LA-2a and Urei 1176 and at end sibilance reduction unit? Can we talk about what should I get? Do you give professional guidance?
Make sure you ping and compensate the RTL (round trip latency) for each analog DAW insert.
Yep
The drum patterns I make exist outside my pc so I have no choice but to track to get them in, but when I track I’m looking to do least amount of post mixing as possible so I try to get as much the sound I want on the front end first.
That’s how it’s done!
Great video, and I’ve actually had those same thoughts lately. I used to own a Warm Audio WA73-EQ Preamp, and I ended up selling it because the UAD unison Neve 1073 preamp sounded just as good to my ears, and when mixed, they sounded essentially the same to me. Currently, I have the budget for some outboard gear. I’m interested in purchasing an outboard preamp and an outboard compressor for tracking. It seems like so many of my favorite music creators are using the Chandler Limited TG2 Preamp (Kevin Parker of Tame Impala, and Max Martin are a couple of them). What are your thoughts on that preamp? I’d also likely pair it with the Universal Audio 1176 Compressor (hardware version).
You made your mistake with Warm Audio by trying to get a strip out of them. I love their mic preamps, but I don't get the ones that claim to be a 1073 and blah blah blah. I bought the WA12 MK2 (black) mic preamp. Just the mic pre. After that I bought an LL2A compressor limiter from Little Labs. I'm going to get an EQ soon, but the point im trying to make is that building your own channel strip is better than buying these already completed strips from companies like Warn. No UAD channel strip can hang when you build with the right pieces. Just also recently purchased an ART PRO VLA 2.
Hey Barry, do you use outboard mic preamps for mixing?
Gotta get them all
Found out this the hard way... used the external efx plugin in my DAW for recording. Worked great for 1 track... added it on a 2nd track... by the time i got to 5 tracks it overloaded my CPU (128 buffer) and it's a M1 Max!! Works great for playback... recording tracks... not so much.
Can you send that session to me? Makes zero sense.
barryjohns@barryjohnsstudiotalk.com
Thank you..
You’re welcome!
Barry, a very sensible video thank you, but you and I both know that outboard hardware is not as much for tracking or for mixing as much as it is simply a chick magnet 😂
😂😂😂
Well there is that! Let’s not forget the self esteem boost as well😜
Chick magnet unless its your wife seeing the price......... lol
A pair of Neve and a pair of API Style Preamps? Sounds like a LTL SilverBullet to me 😎
Im getting into hardware gear but I’m not recording drums or guitars at least not any time soon so would I need two of the same gear if I just want to use it on my master fader in my daw and all my drums are digital ?
if your drums are in stereo then you need an outboard processor that can process stereo. or buy two mono units
exactly!
colorful eq hardware for vocal, bass, or guitar?
If I plug a condenser mic into a mike pre and patch that into a digital recorder do I need to activate the phantom power on both mic pre and recorder or just one and which one ?
The mic pre, you want to completely bypass the mic preamps on your interface, and connect to the line inputs.
I respect your point of view regarding the quality of plug ins in vs hardware. But what about if you consider the plug in not a clone of analog gear rather than original piece . This sets to another level of mind where more possibilities are created and comitte to the gear you have in front of you like in the old days of analog mixing. Just my thoughts
I agree
Barry, would you choose API over SSL for pre's? If so, why or why not, or maybe what would you recommend about either one. (I am already sold on Neve pre and 1176).
API, check out Capi that are either a build your own or there are people on Reverb that will build them for you, as good as API, but less expensive.
Appreciate your view points .... almost like I am sitting in the studio with you just hanging out! Thanks Barry .... truly enjoying your channel!
So I currently use a Warm Audio WA273 preamp and a Revive Audio modded ART PRO VLA II (with Cinemag Transformer) and really like them both especially for the prices paid.
They both add some flavor coming into the tracks. I'd like to get a good overall EQ (pair of them if need be) that I could possibly use for mastering in the future as well as normal EQ duties when tracking. Any recommendations? I am thinking a Pultec style might be the best way to go? Thoughts on this?
Audioscape pultec (pair) on Master Buss when mixing. I don’t usually track with eq, as I prefer making those decisions I’m context to the mix.
@@BarryJohns Yes, I don't either normally but you never know (my preamp has no EQ) and wondered if there was a do all one. I'll check that out. Thanks!
Is the Cinemag an option for the VLA? I have the same unit, but it is stock. It has been a workhorse but I want to upgrade my outboard soon. I always keep what I have though as it can have use re-deployed.
@@trebleboost7 Yes and I have that on mine but you can get it with a Carnhill instead if you prefer.
Have you ever got the chance to checkout the Mcdsp apb? take a look and maybe you get one to review sometime
Do I have to buy separate eq if I wanna track with one and mix with the other or can I change over easily from tracking to mixing with one? I don’t really understand how to connect them either. Does the connection differ between tracking and mixing?
I have a video coming out tomorrow that will answer your question.
Would mix on outboard your guitar effects like reverb, delay, phase, flanger etc?
I do
First time seeing your channel, I’d love to see a video focused on tracking tips/technique/etc for outboard gear. Not sure if u have one yet but I didn’t see one on my quick comb through.
But this was a great video. Thanks!
I also never knew why anyone would ever want to real time bounce in pro tools lol that was a duh moment for me
Great trivia is always welcome! Thank you!
“However you get to your decision”😂😂😂
ok as a drummer getting into all this analog gear I know I like the sound of neve mic pres & eq on drum shells. but I also really love api on overheads or spot micing cymbals. would it be considered a no no to mix the two types for tracking a full kit? I've been looking at sidecars for shells and lunchbox for cymbals and room
Can you make a video how to connect outboard heat into the interface? Maybe a little too basic of a question but I’m having a lot of trouble with it, thanks!
you need to plug into an interface with a 1/4" plug. If you use an XLR cable, you won't be bypassing the internal preamps of your intereface.
I'm curious on your take for the best API, Neve, LA2A 1176, and Pultec clones are. I'm looking at Audioscapes, CAPI and Heritage Audio. Curious if you have any other thoughts...
API, how with Capi, LA2A and Pultec, Audioscape, 1176 Purple Audio or Black Lion Audio. Now this is just my opinion.
@@BarryJohns well, Barry. I love your opinion so I'm gonna go with it! Thank you, young man!
what about Neve though....
@@TheAhmedGallab great river, BAE (best), Heritage Audio, I have not heard the AudioScape one though.
I mix everything including mastering with just a moogerfooger
Ok, question is..... Which Shotgun Mic are you using???? Great video, btw.
Sennheiser MKH 416 and I love it. Started out with a Rode NTG2 and it was not that great.
Thanks for watching the channel!
How many high end preamps you have or need?
Watch my video on how to pick mic preamps.
Even mic placement on a shotgun mic is important 🙂😎
Especially if you’re gonna bump your head into it
I was telling people this. 15 years ago. And they did not believe me. I have six pieces of analog gear. and it's for my vocal chain.
what products are the?
It's a company called warm audio. I have The 1176. The WA2A. The politic EQ. The73 microphone preamp and EQ. The prosaurus studio 192 interface with fat channels. and The VCA bus compressor.
I think the best way is to use a preamp to color the sound and a compressor to color the sound and to make the vocal/instrument performance better and not to compress the SH** out of the performance. Use it to make the performance sound better.
What a quick 20 minutes.
Dumb question, but what is tracking?
When you are recording.
What’s your favourite budget pre amp for tracking?
@@legacyShredder1 around the 1000$ mark. Have had my eye on the warm audio stuff.
$600 is the starting point for getting pre amps with a decent color tonethat is if you already have a 500 series lunchbox. my advice is consider the priority of the instrument being recorded and and spend extra there first.
@@legacyShredder1 I picked up a WA273 for the purpose of tracking kick and snare and while it wasn't bad on snare I found the kick had no weight or bottom end thump. I was very dissatisfied overall. I really wanted to like the warm audio stuff. and it was very hard to recoup 2/3"s of the original purchase price.
@@legacyShredder1 Thanks a lot man. I 100% agree with you. You recommend WA273 for vocals? Or you like more the api style / tonebeast?
capi vp28's & capi vp312's are really nice
they are api clones
Without watching
Yup!! Yup and yup!!
Tracking, mixing and mastering
Since I use a Presonus StudioLive32SC as my interface and controller, I have the luxury of adding a TC Electronics M-OneXL and a Lexicon MPX550 as outboard reverbs for mixing. These units sound great and are dirt cheap. In general though, for most project studios outboard gear is mostly tracking oriented.
I am trying to decide between a Lexicon pcm 70 or 80 vs the mpx550. How would you compare the reverbs in those units? I only have a Quadrverb now so any Lexicon would be an improvement I think. Although the Quadrverb is nice sometimes on guitar.
@@johnsaras1 The PCM70 is a classic. The PCM80 is a beast as well. My MPX550 is just a budget reverb and is a better "reverb" than the QuadraVerb, but the QV does cool things delay and chorus things as well. IMHO
I only make two minute songs now. It makes no sense to make a 4:00 song nowadays when the streaming payout will be the same..it's a great idea, that way, people don't get bored of the song, it cuts my having to write lyrics in half ...a lot of the rappers are doing music this way.
Only reason I did that was to show it could go for a while and not have any issues, not meaning that songs should be that long.
@@BarryJohns
Whew, thank God!
2 mns songs done for the sake of matching a trendy format for plays defies the purpose of making music. Music making has to be enjoyed, too many people worry about the days or the plays, what about the art form ?
@@LaidbackSounds
I've heard plenty of 10 min songs that were garbage and I've heard excellent 2 min songs, i.e. (sly and the family stone) that were superb
In today's world of 1001 pluginns more is better starts to become quickly "more is worse". Especially working wih different types of compressors, eq's in the mix. Often times (90%) you'll make a big mess combining the whole circus of things you don't know much about ... If you haven't used one type of anything at least a year, you'll do more damage then good; unless it's something simple like coloring the sound with some transformers, amp's etc.
I have several videos making that same point.
Rack stuff is way better than plug-ins
Mr how u connect your mic for youtube channel super clear
hes an audio engineer.
This is hands down the easiest audio engineer channel online to listen to. Also this guy is the least politically correct audio engineer I’ve ever seen! So many of these engineers I’ve seen are too professional and people pleasing.
Thanks, you just summed up my goal for the channel! Appreciate you watching!
"visually stimulating appeal" = why I keep looking dammit lol
Garbage in garbage out! If you start with a good source it's so much easier to get a great sound instead of fix it in the mix! I'd rather spend the time getting it right at the input....
Well I think we all understand that, now once you have a good source, how best can you bring it to life.
To ignore everything else would be foolish no. I mean isn’t that what we do?
I’ve never known a great performance alone mixing itself.
But Sweetwater easy payments is so easy
God forbid you listen a track all the way through in real time
I “Always” do when bouncing my final mix.
Use Acustica Audio. Then Your mixes sounds analog. And let only the mastering real analog.
Solved.