We often joke that only Mark!der Tod's kisses could pass the Chinese censorship so the show could be toured in Shanghai xD And we all understand that there's no way petite Jesper could lift a much taller Rudolf and spin him around like a potato sack. His signature coat flap magically made things less awkward. But actually, I think the lift-and-spin choreography was specially designed for only Uwe. He made it looks so elegant.
11:00 okay this one gives me chills. the dissonance between the gentle caress as he hands him the gun vs how coldly he drops him to the floor. Just... wow.
Dance lift of Kroger is very powerful, he spins a guy with the same height and weight easier than I do it with my dog while training it. It's hard for me even look at this but its very cool.
I just saw Elisabeth live in Hungary for the first time ever and I loved this schene, they did it a lot differently tho. Rudolph was dancing with the angels of death the whole time who were taunting him with rifles, and only in the end of the song he is the one who runs to Death, kissing him and shooting himself, without any taunting from Death's side, showing how badly he really wanted to die.
Oh god I'm crying at "headbutt bitch" XD Mark is my favorite Tod but that first kiss of his in the video was definitely best. That said, it comes down to the director's instructions as well as where they're performing, what day each video was shot, etc. There's so much variation from one performance to the next, it's probably either coincidence that the kisses ended up getting shorter or else it was a creative decision to make the death seem more cold and calculating. Mark certainly has no problem kissing men so I'm guessing it's the latter lol.
I’m not gonna lie, this makes me really wish I could have the opportunity and skill to perform as Death in a production of this show, just to bring back the dress and Uwe’s twirl. The new choreography works super well, of course, but something about that drag backwards into a wild, leg-swinging twirl feels almost jarringly *joyous,* which makes what’s actually happening all the worse. Or maybe I just like the way the skirts move! 😂🖤🖤🖤
I think Marks are kind of sad. I mean the first one in the video was a nice one, but the others...? I don't know, takes the magic of the scene... and we know that his Elisabeth kisses are always fire, so why can't he kiss Rudolph for one second? I love Mark so much, but the ruined tension makes me sad😂
I laughed SO HARD at your comments. Also ... I kinda have a feeling the "kisses" probably varied from day to day and from ... partner to partner? No idea, really, but I think I even saw footage of one "kiss" somewhere where it sounded and felt (from the music and the pace) like der Tod kinda .. ran out of time. LOL. The pacing was a bit off
Oliver & Thomas...well, the kiss didn't last too long but their eye contact was intense, and the choreography when der Tod dragged Rudolf around looks much more satisfying (Thomas was too thin back then, the way Oli held him was so gentler compared to other Tods).
Mark didn't even give the Todeskuss in the newest version that played a few days ago In Schönbrunn (and no it's not cause of Corona cause he still kissed Elisabeth)
Yes but that's not his fault, it's the director who says when and how actors have to kiss their colleagues. Schönbrunn couldn't do the actual Vienna production due lack of space ig so that's why there probably wasn't a kiss between Rudolf and Tod (I haven't seen the performance tho). I only know that it's more of a concert than the musical production which is shown in Schönbrunn.
@@carostrophal Oh I agree that it's the directors fault not the actors, I still find it funny though. I have seen the show and they could've done the kiss easily (they even did the whole gun dance thing) God knows why the director decided to just not include it
I was so disappointed when I saw that they didn't go for it especially because the scene was perfectly built up for the kiss, they even stood with the back towards the audience they could have at least faked it T.T I don't see any logic in having elisabeth have a kiss but not rudolf
@@olyn8683 Yes it is sad that they didn't add it, especially because der Tod normally only takes lives if he takes the soul through a kiss [it also is like the whole sense of the Tod & Elisabeth kiss (?)]. Still, I personally don't mind that much, regarding that the musical tells a Lovestory between Sissi and der Tod and not between Rudolf and der Tod
During my extensive Mayerling Kiss research (:webber:) I've discovered that the mysterious Thun u/s Tod is Armin Rostami!! I'm also pretty sure that the Rudolf in that clip is the understudy aka Oliver Arno, because main Rudolf Nico Gaik had very blond hair at the time of the prod (saw it on a curtain call pic), which the Rudolf in the clip doesn't. Just thought I'd let you know :D
@@ser_maximilian5301 Yea!!! The show is structured so that the Rudolf u/s sings the Éljen Young Hungarian Nobleman solo, which is what clued me to this, as well as an extremely pixelated photo I saw online xD
@@IsDioGayorEuropean Probably has to do with the Elisabeth kisses being kisses of passion while the Rudolph kiss is just a cold, calculated claiming of the soul.
I gotta say the more recent performances just LACK something.. I think Mark does a great job at the intimidating yet seductive vibe, his eyes seem to really pin you in place. But I really liked the twirl, bc it feels like a kind of distorted almost pardoy of a lovers embrace, like when they do the thing of spinning the partner around bc they're happy you know? And that is just so ICONIC and tragic. Rudolph embraces death and holds onto them with desperation. More recently it feels more like death is mahandling him fully. Its also a good interpretation, but I personally prefer the earlier ones.
I think in the Chinese one, in order to get past censorship on the Mayerling Incident, they depicted Rudolf's mistress even though his wife and mistress aren't shown at all in other versions.
Lol i feel like they slashed the budget on *everything* in later productions. They should bring back the dress, we need to see Mark in it at least once
According to the idea, Death is genderfluid, he can morph into any gender and orientation as easily as changing clothes. I believe they wanted to implement this idea in 1992, but the idea was left for one scene with a dress. Uwe and Mate looked natural in the dress, but then other artists began to play Death - someone have the noticeable shoulders, someone is tall, someone just have a square-form face - all this would look comical in a dress. In addition, a tradition has been established that everyone plays this role with their natural hair, without a wig. What kind of dress is there may be if the artist has a boxing haircut?
RIGHT?! I dont hate the leather costumes I really dont, they are fine and Mark looks absolutely gorgeous, BUT I miss the drama. Sure Mark is not built the same as Uve or Mate, but come on they could make him a dress! Or alter the dress! Or at least give him a cooler costume? Ya know in case they cant make him a dress or he simply does not want to wear one. I think the all leather looks a little out of place especially when it doesnt have the long coat😂 Like thats something a werewolf in a CW show would wear. Idk I really love Marks performance, he has such a great VIBE going on, but I do miss the kiss and the cool fits.
@@ser_maximilian5301 ah that’s unfortunate also gotta ask do you just have an entire file titled “ Elisabeth “ on your computer or do you find these on TH-cam
He was originally in a dress during the original and revival Vienna productions. Rudolf commits suicide with his mistress Mary Vetsera, and so the dress sort of symbolizes that.
I think it also symbolises the fact that death doesnt have a set appearance or gender. Death is a concept, so to Elisabeth he appears as a beautiful "dark prince" (literally she says that in a song at the start), who is beautiful, handsome. To Rudolph death appears in a dress, probably to symbolise he appears as a woman in this case (for the musical, ofc IRL men can also wear a dress and it doesnt make them women 😂). Because thats alluring to Rudolph and so death adapts. I like whenever death doesnt have a set "form" as such, so I enjoy the fluidity. Also the dress is very nice and they all looked absolutely stunning in it.
![Elisabeth das Musical [Comparison] - Tod's hip push - Der Letzte Tanz](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ry9EvWvsJoU/mqdefault.jpg)
We often joke that only Mark!der Tod's kisses could pass the Chinese censorship so the show could be toured in Shanghai xD
And we all understand that there's no way petite Jesper could lift a much taller Rudolf and spin him around like a potato sack. His signature coat flap magically made things less awkward. But actually, I think the lift-and-spin choreography was specially designed for only Uwe. He made it looks so elegant.
2:00 - looks like Rudolf wanted to shoot Thomas Tod instead. Oh and Uwe- say what you want, but he was and remains the best twirler and kisser
shoutout to Thun at 8:20 for validating the "Tod wears the dress bc he's appearing to Rudolf in the form of Mary" reading
11:00 okay this one gives me chills. the dissonance between the gentle caress as he hands him the gun vs how coldly he drops him to the floor. Just... wow.
thank you for making me look again! that moment is incredible
Dance lift of Kroger is very powerful, he spins a guy with the same height and weight easier than I do it with my dog while training it. It's hard for me even look at this but its very cool.
Uwe is truly the master of spins.
I just saw Elisabeth live in Hungary for the first time ever and I loved this schene, they did it a lot differently tho. Rudolph was dancing with the angels of death the whole time who were taunting him with rifles, and only in the end of the song he is the one who runs to Death, kissing him and shooting himself, without any taunting from Death's side, showing how badly he really wanted to die.
Oh god I'm crying at "headbutt bitch" XD
Mark is my favorite Tod but that first kiss of his in the video was definitely best. That said, it comes down to the director's instructions as well as where they're performing, what day each video was shot, etc. There's so much variation from one performance to the next, it's probably either coincidence that the kisses ended up getting shorter or else it was a creative decision to make the death seem more cold and calculating. Mark certainly has no problem kissing men so I'm guessing it's the latter lol.
I’m not gonna lie, this makes me really wish I could have the opportunity and skill to perform as Death in a production of this show, just to bring back the dress and Uwe’s twirl. The new choreography works super well, of course, but something about that drag backwards into a wild, leg-swinging twirl feels almost jarringly *joyous,* which makes what’s actually happening all the worse. Or maybe I just like the way the skirts move! 😂🖤🖤🖤
You're absolutely not wrong, I really wish they would bring the dress back
No cuz the "headbutt bitch" SENT ME
16:30 Szilveszter serving his best Morticia Adams look
Him and Maté being my favorite Tods in Hungarian
11:10 omg this one is literally perfect.. the timing, the lightning, the hands, the music !
you are correct
I think Marks are kind of sad. I mean the first one in the video was a nice one, but the others...? I don't know, takes the magic of the scene... and we know that his Elisabeth kisses are always fire, so why can't he kiss Rudolph for one second? I love Mark so much, but the ruined tension makes me sad😂
I laughed SO HARD at your comments. Also ... I kinda have a feeling the "kisses" probably varied from day to day and from ... partner to partner? No idea, really, but I think I even saw footage of one "kiss" somewhere where it sounded and felt (from the music and the pace) like der Tod kinda .. ran out of time. LOL. The pacing was a bit off
Oliver & Thomas...well, the kiss didn't last too long but their eye contact was intense, and the choreography when der Tod dragged Rudolf around looks much more satisfying (Thomas was too thin back then, the way Oli held him was so gentler compared to other Tods).
Felix is so dramatic I love him
this is so important thank u for ur service
Mark didn't even give the Todeskuss in the newest version that played a few days ago In Schönbrunn (and no it's not cause of Corona cause he still kissed Elisabeth)
Yes but that's not his fault, it's the director who says when and how actors have to kiss their colleagues. Schönbrunn couldn't do the actual Vienna production due lack of space ig so that's why there probably wasn't a kiss between Rudolf and Tod (I haven't seen the performance tho). I only know that it's more of a concert than the musical production which is shown in Schönbrunn.
@@carostrophal Oh I agree that it's the directors fault not the actors, I still find it funny though. I have seen the show and they could've done the kiss easily (they even did the whole gun dance thing)
God knows why the director decided to just not include it
I was so disappointed when I saw that they didn't go for it especially because the scene was perfectly built up for the kiss, they even stood with the back towards the audience they could have at least faked it T.T
I don't see any logic in having elisabeth have a kiss but not rudolf
@@olyn8683 Yes it is sad that they didn't add it, especially because der Tod normally only takes lives if he takes the soul through a kiss [it also is like the whole sense of the Tod & Elisabeth kiss (?)]. Still, I personally don't mind that much, regarding that the musical tells a Lovestory between Sissi and der Tod and not between Rudolf and der Tod
i need the 12/12/2003 elisabeth recording so bad mate seems to be going ham in it
I love how Rudolf pulled him in, instead of the other way around 🤣
08:35 that's probably Mary Vetsera that is genius if you know her story but without any context it'd be super confusing
What shocked me is that the fact that Paul kribbe twirled eight times as soon as he picked rudolf up is very interesting
During my extensive Mayerling Kiss research (:webber:) I've discovered that the mysterious Thun u/s Tod is Armin Rostami!! I'm also pretty sure that the Rudolf in that clip is the understudy aka Oliver Arno, because main Rudolf Nico Gaik had very blond hair at the time of the prod (saw it on a curtain call pic), which the Rudolf in the clip doesn't. Just thought I'd let you know :D
OOH was Oli the u/s Rudolf for Thun?? I didn't know!! Thanks for sharing!
@@ser_maximilian5301 Yea!!! The show is structured so that the Rudolf u/s sings the Éljen Young Hungarian Nobleman solo, which is what clued me to this, as well as an extremely pixelated photo I saw online xD
Where in this video is that?
@@celine8145 8:17 onwards!
8:30 I'm not sure, but maybe the woman could be Mary Vetsera, at least that would make sense
Mark may be my favorite death but damn this mans kiss game is weak
Nah I disagree, the kiss between his Tod and Elisabeth is always fire, the same wirh other productions. I guess it's directing.
@@carostrophal i meant the Rudolph kiss specifically, the Elisabeth kiss is, as you said, pretty much always rlly good
@@IsDioGayorEuropean Yeah you're right.
@@IsDioGayorEuropean Probably has to do with the Elisabeth kisses being kisses of passion while the Rudolph kiss is just a cold, calculated claiming of the soul.
I'm weak for Maté's portrayal of Der Tod. He looks so handsome and he looks even better in that damn dress
Mate looks like Hayden Christensen in Revenge of the Sith. He’s absolutely gorgeous
I gotta say the more recent performances just LACK something..
I think Mark does a great job at the intimidating yet seductive vibe, his eyes seem to really pin you in place.
But I really liked the twirl, bc it feels like a kind of distorted almost pardoy of a lovers embrace, like when they do the thing of spinning the partner around bc they're happy you know?
And that is just so ICONIC and tragic.
Rudolph embraces death and holds onto them with desperation.
More recently it feels more like death is mahandling him fully.
Its also a good interpretation, but I personally prefer the earlier ones.
So in the Thun production I believe the other person dying was ruldofs mistress who killed herself with ruldof in like real life
Mate karamas is the best
I think in the Chinese one, in order to get past censorship on the Mayerling Incident, they depicted Rudolf's mistress even though his wife and mistress aren't shown at all in other versions.
Did they slash the budget for costume on later productions or what? I miss the dress T_T
Lol i feel like they slashed the budget on *everything* in later productions. They should bring back the dress, we need to see Mark in it at least once
@@ser_maximilian5301 or maybe it’s because mark cannot fit in the dress therefore they need to change to costume
They just don't understand the story and want it to be less "gay" at any cost
According to the idea, Death is genderfluid, he can morph into any gender and orientation as easily as changing clothes. I believe they wanted to implement this idea in 1992, but the idea was left for one scene with a dress.
Uwe and Mate looked natural in the dress, but then other artists began to play Death - someone have the noticeable shoulders, someone is tall, someone just have a square-form face - all this would look comical in a dress.
In addition, a tradition has been established that everyone plays this role with their natural hair, without a wig. What kind of dress is there may be if the artist has a boxing haircut?
RIGHT?!
I dont hate the leather costumes I really dont, they are fine and Mark looks absolutely gorgeous, BUT I miss the drama.
Sure Mark is not built the same as Uve or Mate, but come on they could make him a dress! Or alter the dress!
Or at least give him a cooler costume? Ya know in case they cant make him a dress or he simply does not want to wear one.
I think the all leather looks a little out of place especially when it doesnt have the long coat😂
Like thats something a werewolf in a CW show would wear.
Idk I really love Marks performance, he has such a great VIBE going on, but I do miss the kiss and the cool fits.
tragam o vestido de volta !!!
Why did they change the dresssss nooooo
Exactly, it made the scene so much better 😞
do you have any idea where to find the Takarazuka productions on video?
8:30 , perhaps it's Rudoph's lover, Maria? As they died together...
8:27 i think that's supposed to be mary in the background
Who else here is solely for Mark Siebert?
Any chance we get some of the Asian productions or are those copyright iffy
I did try putting in the Toho kisses but the vid got blocked :
@@ser_maximilian5301 ah that’s unfortunate also gotta ask do you just have an entire file titled “ Elisabeth “ on your computer or do you find these on TH-cam
@@MrBlock-qe7hi i do in fact have a folder of Elisabeth videos lol but a lot of them can br found on youtube
@@ser_maximilian5301 nice also just wanna say super glad I found your channel this stuff is exactly my niche
Wait- how did you find all the footage????? And also could you pin me
Why in some versions of Tod in a dress?
He was originally in a dress during the original and revival Vienna productions. Rudolf commits suicide with his mistress Mary Vetsera, and so the dress sort of symbolizes that.
I think Tod looks nice in a dress🙂
@@Rainanderson4538 Oh yeah
I think it also symbolises the fact that death doesnt have a set appearance or gender.
Death is a concept, so to Elisabeth he appears as a beautiful "dark prince" (literally she says that in a song at the start), who is beautiful, handsome.
To Rudolph death appears in a dress, probably to symbolise he appears as a woman in this case (for the musical, ofc IRL men can also wear a dress and it doesnt make them women 😂). Because thats alluring to Rudolph and so death adapts.
I like whenever death doesnt have a set "form" as such, so I enjoy the fluidity.
Also the dress is very nice and they all looked absolutely stunning in it.