A quick note about spooling faster with UEL headers. That might have been true on the EJ, with their explanation of shorter runners, but the exact OPPOSITE is true for the FA series. The UEL headers ADD length to one side to make it UEL, making the turbo spool much slower. This is exacerbated by the fact that the FA series uses a twin scroll which is even more adversely affected by UEL's uneven exhaust pulses. In SubiSpeed's on dyno testing, Grimmspeed's EL headers spooled 500rpm sooner and made more power across the entire rev range with a 35whp peak gain when compared to KillerB's UEL. Those numbers might not be "game changing", but they aren't small. And those were on the FA20, the FA24 having 20% more displacement means those differences will likely be more on the bigger motor.
Your videos are one of the most complete and educational when it comes to VB WRX (that's what I see on the channel) I hope you continue to grow in your community, I have learned a lot with your videos, so much so that I would even like to make a channel like yours in Spanish because it is my first language and I have not seen anyone who explains it, I think it would be useful for many people!!
I like the sound of my stock VB. But what I'd consider most is an exhaust system that would reduce lots of weight... while sounding good. Great channel, love your easy going straightforward relaxed communication. Thanks!
UEL is UEL they all sound essentially the same whether its VA / VB / STi / etc. My only concern is any side effects from doing it, I really want to get the UEL on my 22 eventually assuming there is no info about potential harms.
@@rickt0wnn in a chill street config I don't think you'll run into any issues. High temps are only really relevant in racing or extreme applications. Same as the VA WRX, they didn't have any problems as long as people were pushing them for power specifically.
FAs with UEL don't exactly sound like EJs, kind of like how EJs with EL don't sound exactly like FAs. I do think the FA24 sounds a bit closer to the traditional subie rumble as opposed to the FA20, which sounds like an inline 4, and gets too raspy on the upper end. I'm too broke anyways to make a decision haha, but years down the line is when I'd make a decision to see how UELs fair on the FA24, which on their own do done great and not too much like other inline 4s.
Lmaoo, I felt the brokenness ❤️. I'm in the same boat. It's too early for me to worry about headers in general but I agree. I think because of the larger displacement we already have an engine that's deeper in tone. Adding the UEL does give it a nice rumble. Let's just see how it all plays out.
Great video! I’m almost sold on getting a set of UEL when they come out. This is my first Subie and if i can get close to the old and true sound while not losing much power then i think id be ok with that. Our VB’s have gobs of torque when pro tuned so if i gained hp but lost tq a bit, that’s perfectly ok imo.
Thanks so much! After rewatching it I felt less comfortable with the flubs and word stumbling. I just need to internalize better or just read off the screen.
The thing about that old school rumble vs. these dyno pulls are that 1) the heavily optimized race car was full-out and maybe spooling faster with a lot of engine work and 2) the dyno pulls aren't as dynamic with sustained high power conditions on the engine Great video though, good attitude. All the vehicles sounded great.
Great informative video! Thanks for taking the time! Although I always thought the old 90s impreza STI that were on the WRC circuit for the subaru team had equal length headers.
I plan on getting a 2025 tS and I am 100% getting unequal length headers for it. I love how it sounds. I will daily it, my neighbors will hate me, but I don't care.
The rumble comes from unequal length head and box engine itself that’s way we still get bit rumble with equal length head when you install aftermarket exhaust
My problem with aftermarket headers is longevity they just dont last as long as oem. Ive never had the oem fail while aftermarket one's have cracked on me. Local guy had his wrapped headers catch fire. Oem with factory heat shields are perfect for most applications IMO
Um..@ 13:15 there's dyno tests out there showing a loss of 30whp with UELs on an FA20 without tuning and the tuning just basically makes up for that loss.... dismissing that like it's not a big deal is a disservice. Nobody wants to spend $2k on headers and custom tuning to get a slight rumble and same power...30whp is game changing as much as a 30whp increase can be. That's not minor.
I had a va wrx for about a year and a half. I did muffler deletes on it about 2 months into my ownership of it, and it sounded decent. I just hated the factory tune but didn’t want to void my warranty. Ultimately I had to get rid of it because I had a second kid and we didn’t fit with two car seat rear facing. When I get the chance to buy another wrx I’ll jump on it.
The new WRX is about an inch or 2 wider so maybe it might be time to revisit the two car seats! I know mine fits 2 big car seats in the back. I actually even have 2 car seats still sitting in the garage. I could test it for ya! 🤣
Trying to make the NEW engine sound like the EJ seems to be going backwards IMO. To me the best sound out of a FA24 is the one that makes the most power. Header length is way more complex that Equal vs unequal. If you want to understand it go check out David Vizard TH-cam channel. He has written best selling books on making more horse power and is responsible for K&N success. He also created the worlds first performance muffler that actually worked.
Yea I feel like if it's power you want you just stick with EL. Of course this always devolves to a personal preference because if you're not in it for big power and more for chilling on the street it's not bad. I'll have to check David Vizard out. I am not aware of this story at all.
@@HeavyMetalWRX David is legendary btw.(p.s..back in the late 90s/00's, the saying was the ones to watch out for were the ones running EL, as they made the most power, and the person clearly knew what they were doing lol.
It would have been nice to hear the UEL headers all out on the 2.4 like with the EL at the mid to top end to see if it sounds thin like the EL in that range.
Probably gonna end up getting a wrx at the end of this year, Hopefully they release the 2023 wrx by then. Been cross shopping between a vb and elantra N but my brother just got a elantra N. Definitely want a jdm as my next car though.
I have been keeping an eye out for the 2023 release so I can go check it out. Nothing really changed that we know of but it'll still be good to verify.
You can tell the difference but your right, its not all there. Feels like a waste of money to go slower. function>form. From everything ive seen they dont pair well with the stock turbo.
Lol I have a lot of eye issues. My blood vessels actually dig into my cornea so I have to take specific medication. Something you guys didn't see with the crappy camera 🤣
I've always been told 4&2 cylinders run hotter with UEL longer runners,1&3 run cooler because they are shorter. ELH will help equalize temps across all cylinders. This is why Subaru went to ELH with the FA20. Why would we go back? Just for sound? Ahh no 👎
Lmaooo man I forgot I even did that. I do play guitar, bass, keyboards, drums, recorder, triangle, hand clap. All the music you hear in my videos are my own creations.
There is no question of which one is better. EL is better, period. UEL is only for sound, is less efficient, and is known to cause issues with unequal pressures across the 4 combustion chambers. And they defeat the entire purpose of a twin-scroll turbo.
You can't really count everyone. There are many new Subaru / WRX / turbo charges owners in our community. Just because you know doesn't mean others do. It's important to help spread the information for the new generation of owners. 🤘
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:36 Header discussion
7:36 90s Subie UEL sound
8:48 VA STi UEL sound
9:50 VA WRX EL sound
10:45 VA WRX UEL sound
11:26 VB WRX UL sound
12:24 VB WRX UEL sound
12:41 Outro
Need to correct 12:24 tag to UEL rather than EUL.
@@matthewwain9958 haha nice catch!
A quick note about spooling faster with UEL headers. That might have been true on the EJ, with their explanation of shorter runners, but the exact OPPOSITE is true for the FA series. The UEL headers ADD length to one side to make it UEL, making the turbo spool much slower. This is exacerbated by the fact that the FA series uses a twin scroll which is even more adversely affected by UEL's uneven exhaust pulses. In SubiSpeed's on dyno testing, Grimmspeed's EL headers spooled 500rpm sooner and made more power across the entire rev range with a 35whp peak gain when compared to KillerB's UEL. Those numbers might not be "game changing", but they aren't small. And those were on the FA20, the FA24 having 20% more displacement means those differences will likely be more on the bigger motor.
I think they just dynod two new UEL designs from Grimapeed too, have you seen that video also?
Wrong
@@benjaminfelder1756 no?
Your videos are one of the most complete and educational when it comes to VB WRX (that's what I see on the channel) I hope you continue to grow in your community, I have learned a lot with your videos, so much so that I would even like to make a channel like yours in Spanish because it is my first language and I have not seen anyone who explains it, I think it would be useful for many people!!
@@isaiasbasabe7043 thank you so much! I actually have a lot of friends who speak Spanish. I could probably even make that happen in the future!
@@HeavyMetalWRX for sure, if you decide to make it real let me know, I have a VB too 😎
I like the sound of my stock VB. But what I'd consider most is an exhaust system that would reduce lots of weight... while sounding good.
Great channel, love your easy going straightforward relaxed communication. Thanks!
most exhuasts will save weight. if you want max weight savings you will need a single exxit exhuast.
What do you think about the sound of unequal length headers on a FA motor? Although, how do you like how I messed up the intro song on the logo? 🤣
UEL is UEL they all sound essentially the same whether its VA / VB / STi / etc. My only concern is any side effects from doing it, I really want to get the UEL on my 22 eventually assuming there is no info about potential harms.
@@rickt0wnn in a chill street config I don't think you'll run into any issues. High temps are only really relevant in racing or extreme applications. Same as the VA WRX, they didn't have any problems as long as people were pushing them for power specifically.
FA24 with unequal sounds 'smooth and refined' based on that one clip. Sounds nice, but mellow and adult lol.
I think another thing to consider is that the rest of the exhaust system will play a large part in how each header set ups sound.
Keep rocking the VB content!
The Subie rumble 🤤
When I go back and watch older WRX videos I can't stop admiring both the car and the sound. It's unfair because those cars sound the best to my ears 😅
FAs with UEL don't exactly sound like EJs, kind of like how EJs with EL don't sound exactly like FAs. I do think the FA24 sounds a bit closer to the traditional subie rumble as opposed to the FA20, which sounds like an inline 4, and gets too raspy on the upper end.
I'm too broke anyways to make a decision haha, but years down the line is when I'd make a decision to see how UELs fair on the FA24, which on their own do done great and not too much like other inline 4s.
Lmaoo, I felt the brokenness ❤️. I'm in the same boat. It's too early for me to worry about headers in general but I agree. I think because of the larger displacement we already have an engine that's deeper in tone. Adding the UEL does give it a nice rumble. Let's just see how it all plays out.
I have a 2005 Subaru legacy gt with EL sound (love it) it sounds almost exact to the VA WRX UEL sound at 10:45
Drove with equal length headers for six and will NEVER go back. Once you go rumble, you'll never want to go back. IMHO
Great video! I’m almost sold on getting a set of UEL when they come out. This is my first Subie and if i can get close to the old and true sound while not losing much power then i think id be ok with that. Our VB’s have gobs of torque when pro tuned so if i gained hp but lost tq a bit, that’s perfectly ok imo.
Thanks so much! After rewatching it I felt less comfortable with the flubs and word stumbling. I just need to internalize better or just read off the screen.
The thing about that old school rumble vs. these dyno pulls are that 1) the heavily optimized race car was full-out and maybe spooling faster with a lot of engine work and 2) the dyno pulls aren't as dynamic with sustained high power conditions on the engine
Great video though, good attitude. All the vehicles sounded great.
Great informative video! Thanks for taking the time! Although I always thought the old 90s impreza STI that were on the WRC circuit for the subaru team had equal length headers.
I'm gonna look like a fool if that turns out to be true 😂😂. The sound is pretty unequal but to make power that would make a lot more sense.
I plan on getting a 2025 tS and I am 100% getting unequal length headers for it. I love how it sounds. I will daily it, my neighbors will hate me, but I don't care.
The rumble comes from unequal length head and box engine itself that’s way we still get bit rumble with equal length head when you install aftermarket exhaust
My problem with aftermarket headers is longevity they just dont last as long as oem. Ive never had the oem fail while aftermarket one's have cracked on me. Local guy had his wrapped headers catch fire. Oem with factory heat shields are perfect for most applications IMO
Um..@ 13:15 there's dyno tests out there showing a loss of 30whp with UELs on an FA20 without tuning and the tuning just basically makes up for that loss.... dismissing that like it's not a big deal is a disservice. Nobody wants to spend $2k on headers and custom tuning to get a slight rumble and same power...30whp is game changing as much as a 30whp increase can be. That's not minor.
That deeper tone sounds way better to me personally! I dont have a VB but if i did id probably go UEL granted it doesnt cause damage down the road..
Yea I do like the deeper tone as it gives us a unique audio compared to VA WRX and EJ STis. Unique is good.
I had a va wrx for about a year and a half. I did muffler deletes on it about 2 months into my ownership of it, and it sounded decent. I just hated the factory tune but didn’t want to void my warranty. Ultimately I had to get rid of it because I had a second kid and we didn’t fit with two car seat rear facing. When I get the chance to buy another wrx I’ll jump on it.
The new WRX is about an inch or 2 wider so maybe it might be time to revisit the two car seats! I know mine fits 2 big car seats in the back. I actually even have 2 car seats still sitting in the garage. I could test it for ya! 🤣
Trying to make the NEW engine sound like the EJ seems to be going backwards IMO. To me the best sound out of a FA24 is the one that makes the most power. Header length is way more complex that Equal vs unequal. If you want to understand it go check out David Vizard TH-cam channel. He has written best selling books on making more horse power and is responsible for K&N success. He also created the worlds first performance muffler that actually worked.
Yea I feel like if it's power you want you just stick with EL. Of course this always devolves to a personal preference because if you're not in it for big power and more for chilling on the street it's not bad. I'll have to check David Vizard out. I am not aware of this story at all.
@@HeavyMetalWRX David is legendary btw.(p.s..back in the late 90s/00's, the saying was the ones to watch out for were the ones running EL, as they made the most power, and the person clearly knew what they were doing lol.
It would have been nice to hear the UEL headers all out on the 2.4 like with the EL at the mid to top end to see if it sounds thin like the EL in that range.
I like the new info graphic 🤘🏼
Thanks so much!
EL headers sound like any rice 4cyl. I miss the suby rumble
Not caring about the power loss. How bad is uel on the motor? What kinda damage can it cause?
I know not the same cause turbo but the 22 brz has uel headers from tomei which sounds really good to me
Probably gonna end up getting a wrx at the end of this year, Hopefully they release the 2023 wrx by then. Been cross shopping between a vb and elantra N but my brother just got a elantra N. Definitely want a jdm as my next car though.
I have been keeping an eye out for the 2023 release so I can go check it out. Nothing really changed that we know of but it'll still be good to verify.
@HeavyMetalWRX Yeah I don't think anything major has changed, Just rather have the 23 if I'm getting a new car towards the end of this year.
They should be coming out now since the build and price site is up and running. It was kind of funny picking up a 2022 brand new car in 2023 haha
@@HeavyMetalWRX the biggest thing I am worried/curious if it's been addressed is the RTV gunking up the oil pick-up
@@snoopyalien24 yea I think that is overhyped. We don't have a real reason to worry.
I wonder if these will fit the Wilderness?
It does come with the 2.4....if there is space it most definitely should.
Porsche uses equal length on their boxer engines, so performance wise it’s definitely better as the Porsche boxer obliterates a Subaru boxer.
porsches 4 cylinders were garbage compared to subarus
You can tell the difference but your right, its not all there. Feels like a waste of money to go slower. function>form. From everything ive seen they dont pair well with the stock turbo.
For red eyes...get Clear Eyes
Lol I have a lot of eye issues. My blood vessels actually dig into my cornea so I have to take specific medication. Something you guys didn't see with the crappy camera 🤣
Also quick note those are for the FA24 BRZ/gt86 not the WRX for God sake.
I'm confused. What are you referring to?
Unequal length headers are as efficient as having unequal length arms or legs.
lol
I've always been told 4&2 cylinders run hotter with UEL longer runners,1&3 run cooler because they are shorter. ELH will help equalize temps across all cylinders. This is why Subaru went to ELH with the FA20. Why would we go back? Just for sound? Ahh no 👎
I will never understand people wanting their car to sound worse, while also reducing performance.
EDIT: "i wAnt sUBiE ruMBle!"
7:02 Your mouthed accurate rendition of the exhaust sound difference implies you are a musician? Then I see a guitar behind you.
Lmaooo man I forgot I even did that. I do play guitar, bass, keyboards, drums, recorder, triangle, hand clap. All the music you hear in my videos are my own creations.
Equal length headers sound like John Bonham & unequal length headers sound like Stuart Copeland comparing exhaust notes to drummers.
Wow haha that's a very interesting comparison. Ngl I like both drummers but if I had to pick between the two I'm going Zeppelin all the way.
A VB will sound like a... VB ! No matter what pipes.
Yeah definitely not sold on the sound at all. Very tame.
Had an EJ and loved the rumble until I found out that EL had much better performance and reliability.
I mean if it was carb legal id probably go for it that will probably never happen.😅
There is no question of which one is better. EL is better, period. UEL is only for sound, is less efficient, and is known to cause issues with unequal pressures across the 4 combustion chambers. And they defeat the entire purpose of a twin-scroll turbo.
Don't forgot it always feel it in your wallet lol
Nah not worth it even for that sound, just not pronounced enough
Rumble is rice and for slow people.
We all already know that
You can't really count everyone. There are many new Subaru / WRX / turbo charges owners in our community. Just because you know doesn't mean others do. It's important to help spread the information for the new generation of owners. 🤘
@@HeavyMetalWRX 👍🏼 you right, you right