FAKE Gold Sovereigns
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2018
- Its heartbreaking when a golden purchase turns out to be pig lead!
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A reputable dealer SHOULD have a electronic scanner which weighs the coin AND provides an analysis of the actual composite of the coin.
Some fakes are made with real gold the older fakes
I’ve been going back and watching your older Sovereign videos. I have been learning a lot and as we all know, knowledge is power. Thanks Numi. You are appreciated!! ✌️
Could you imagine the sick feeling in the pit of your stomach after finding out you bought a fake. Something of that caliber would need a specific gravity test immediately. Thanks for the up-close in-depth look at them
Imagine putting it in storage for years as an investment to find out it is a fake.
Having bought a 1887 Five Sov a few years ago which was a fake I now only buy the slabbed ones and even before then I do research and NEVER buy from China even if they are slabbed.
Mike sorry to hear you got caught with a fake 1887 five pounds. During the the early1970s, their was a big demand for these pieces, the 1893 being more popular and the 1902 and 1911 lesser. Many were made, and sadly many people got caught. Rasmussen of spinks then was checking these pieces a lot, and I then helped him. We nailed it down to 10 different 1887 type fakes, and Mr chard shows type 3 on Utube. You can buy these pieces not slabbed, and do much better price wise. If you buy these pieces from Chards spinks Baldwins you will be alright today.
@frankos rooni Just a little warning. Chards is a little expensive, and have old payment methods ie do not take bank cards or credit cards only bank transfer, or cheque payment. Staff being woman, and have at times sent cleaned coins. The staff do not have a good concept of grading, so its down to you. Slabbed coins are fine, but due to slabbing does stick the price right up, and have made bad errors, a few fakes have slipped through, and some coins been holed around the edge, and slabbed.
Finding out you've been admiring a fake sov, must be like having a great dream spoiled by being mugged, a truly rude awakening.
Thanks Numi, the comparison of the 1911C sovereigns was valuable.
I purchased a 1922 London mint with both parties knowing that was counterfeit. I am pleased to have it in my collection. Irrespective of the fact that it is a counterfeit, it is 8 gm of 22 ct Au, a great curio and a super facsimile of a sovereign that does not exist.
Great work mate. I Thank you very much for this information.
Thank you for this video. I am astounded about this. I will definately be checking my sovereigns. And i will.never buy from eBay again. Thanks.
Is it common for modern sovereigns to be copied, or is it just the older sovs with numismatic value?
Interesting video. I'm afraid I would probably be fooled, however, I will be double checking my coins from now on. Cheers.
Shocking that these fakes are near identicle to the real thing. I wonder what the fineness of the gold is, as if they off colour then it must be debased. If you didn't point out how flat the horse muscles were, I would have thought it to come from a genuine die. Shows the length somebody went to, to counterfeit the die.
Sadly color does not give you a clue either. For example take the 1887 London mint sovereign. Most of the alloy was silver, not copper which explains why most were a very nice yellow color, but near the end of 1887, the mint ran out of silver so switched to copper, which made the sovereign a more cloudy color, but sovereign quit genuine.
@@philippayne4951
London minted sovereigns don't have a mint mark above the year
Question have you ever cut a fake one in half? Are they still gold? Or plated? Or rolled gold?
Yes, I got a fake full sov from a reputable dealer who went to Thailand so he sold up here in England. It tore the soul from me one of those moments where you shudder when you think about it.
JUST GOT DONE SAME WAY 3 OF THEM KEY DATES REAL PISSED OFF BIG $ !
Can you put up a picture of it, and I will be able to tell you all about it.
@@philippayne4951 The person was arrested by the Feds they have the evidence ! They will not give me the fakes . They will destroy them after a court case as i have asked and on top he goes to lock up and i get swat ! The pictures where used from a mint on the net as his for sale fraudulent ! sorry !
@@olegpetelevitch4443 Most of them do seem to come from the far east. Sorry to hear you got screwed by this crook. Can I ask you, did you buy from ebay, as you may be able to take it up with them.
@@philippayne4951 Private so called coin dealer bought 4 of them no worries . Then he sent e mail and as i bought before and they were spot on thought he was OK ! He sent pics from a mint and said their rare one,s . I fell for it ! Then when i got them near the others they were not the same . Im a Jeweller for 35 yrs know gold by smell feel i melt also bars set diamond ingrave! The ones i got were ,same weight size thicker or bigger wrong color bad fakes ! I reported it
was told to bring them in as they cant be put out to use again and for evidence so im screwed 3 sovs $7800 ! Gone . Be carefull 4 sovs tops legit , then 3 pics good as before what i got was crap ! He was on his way to run !
Very informative video, thanks for the warning. Until now I had one fake silver coin, but I got my money back.
Hopefully mine is genuine......my Grandfather took it out of circulation in 1912 ......and it was passed on to myself........and I will be passing on to my niece
Very sad to me people di this most of my sovs are not graded but planning to send the rare ones in soon to be graded hoping i dont get any bad news
💯 thx. For the 411#
The knowledge os priceless to me.
Thx you.
Thanks for doing this public service announcement! They are out there, beware
Yes indeed they are. Comptor empter buyer beware.
I was in the Royal mint private museum with Dr Kevin Clancy he's pretty much the sovereign expert. He showed me a tray and let me handle some specimens of counter fit sovereigns, they were very sobering to see just how good some fakes can be, some of these that I saw had much higher gold content. Every single gold I buy on the secondary market gets weighed the XRF tested the same day. You need to trust the source from where you buy your gold, and even then test it!
I knew keven clancy from the 70s and I worked with Graham Dyer at the Royal mint then in London. The fakes are very good are they not. And some of them I spotted in the early 70s for the mint.
This is why I don't do E-Bay. I don't know what I would be buying. The seller may think it a real gold goin but it isn't so I would be stuck with the fake and out my hard saved money. I only use my LCS or On Line companies that I trust.
Yeah. I just bought one off of Ebay from the help of the silver forum.
Buying Sovereigns on ebay is fine, as long as you know what your looking at. If you know nothing about collecting sovereigns then keep to good coin dealers or bullion dealers. It takes years of study, and if you not the time keep to bullion dealers or good well known coin dealers. You may pay more, but you will get the real thing.
I usually try to buy graded coins already, I am also starting to get into sovereigns because of your videos
That’s great news
I have 1911 gold coin Victoria d.g if u want reply me
Couldn't the horse just be worn down from usage the coin is dated back 1911 no?
I have a sovereign 1911 and it has a small nick or groove in part of the rim. Can a genuine old coin have this or does it mean it is definitely a fake?
As a newbie in coin acquisitions (I am not a collector) I learnt very quickly to buy only graded coins which have an image uploaded on the NGC or PCGS websites. Additionally, If a coin on eBay has blurry images, the serial number of the holder is hidden, and/or the seller won’t communicate… I won’t touch it. I have experienced all these situations very recently from some American sellers including some who claim to be dealers.
Is a half sovereign the same size as a nickel (US). I have a 1913 m sovereign and wondering how much to sell it for.
I have that same my mother have it long long time ago and it is about 40 years ago 19 00 My mother died four months ago also also I’m 6200 it is written 1900 on the side of the horse how can I sell it
Here in Australia I just went to buy two sovereigns in a trade (1895 & 1893) and I am certain they were fake. They both seemed thick (first sign) and the lustre just didn't look right to me so I skipped them.
I have 2 .00201211164131
I would be nervous about sending in my hard earned coins to be graded. Who is to say they would not be swapped for a fake in exchange for your real and then have a reply stating your coin was fake. You need a keen eye to see the differences. I just want to buy real gold. Whatever can be used to purchase goods and services.
I've got a few that I think are just beautiful they have no value besides being aesthetically pleasing and cheap, I've got real bullion and real coins but not many for obvious reasons but I do occasionally buy the fakes just to add to my mantle, I think that's alright aslong as you don't try to pass it off as real gold if someone does ask about it, I actually also like to use them as references for someone who can't tell the difference between gold plated and actual gold
When measuring coins (diameter & thickness) what are the acceptable tolerances if it isn't exactly the same as the "official" size ?
A few millimetres i'm guessing.
A few microns.
The big question some others asked here is what is the weight and diameter and thickness of the fake compared to the real? If someone is going to the trouble of faking in 22k gold then they are not making money. So it must be light weight.
Chards have an excellent video where they examine a fake sovereign, and it seems the counterfeiter there was not only desperate, but a little bit dim too, as the sovereign actually had more gold than a genuine 22ct coin! Even though the counterfeit thus had no numismatic value, it basically meant the counterfeiter had been wasting gold that they could have just used on cheaper counterfeits.
Yes Chards was alright, but Mr chard only showed the basic easy type fakes. As said in my other comments their are many many type fakes, and I have now seen them all.
Chards only explains very easy Fake sovereigns, it would take a long time to explain more difficult types.
Actually I'll give an insight in which situation you'd do such a cheap an un-efficient fake: If i had a big amount of generic Gold in chunks, and if i needed to liquidate it fast, making fake coins (especially one such as a sov.) is very effective. Almost no one has the money to buy a whole chunk of gold like that, and those that too are more picky than that
It just happened to me and I was devastated
Bought a half sovereign from a recognized dealership. Looked good, correct weight and diameter (not sure about thickness). Contacted the dealership when I realized IT HAD THE WRONG MONARCH FOR THE YEAR on it. Got my money back :/
Thanks for the interesting video, but several questions. First, how do the fakers make the fakes, do they take a mold of a genuine one, and how do they do that? What metal alloy do they use? Presumably something that looks like gold, but not gold, and is easily melted, but cheap to make? Which would be what? How do they get round the problem of the weight and size? How do the results look 'flat'? Why do the rims stand out too much? Your last coin, I couldnt see the faults on it that you pointed out, that's with obvious strong magnification. Horse being 'flat' could be just wear from a hundred year old gold coin, no?
That’s not easy to spot. Thanks for the info. When it comes to gold, I only buy from my lcs or a reputable online dealer. Preferably from my lcs, who verifies everything he sells....and sells rounds and coins that aren’t numismatic at the same price as generic.
Hard to beat getting Privateers or Perth Mint Anything for a buck over spot. 😜
Were there any more clues to tell this sovereign apart from a genuine? Weight test? Ring test? These are all important tests in determining a genuine from a fake coin, so it would be really good to see how it compares and if any of these tests give it away.
You may already know this but you can check if its fake is a precious metals verifier, then you can weigh each coin to the 1/10th of a gram and you can measure the coins thickness and diameter with a caliper. I just found an unslabbed $20 Saint Gaudens that registers as gold BUT the diameter is too large to even fit in a coin capsule. I am sending the 1907 Saint Gauden back for a replacement!
*Unfortunately they are very similar, so by ebay and similar it is very difficult to distinguish. What do you think is the best way to buy without paying a huge overcharge ?, At first glance I guess it is better to buy certified coins, but there are not many on ebay*
Let’s be clear on some things :
- in all countries and under any government getting caught manufacturing fake coins is deep, deep trouble : punishment varies, execution in China just for few pennies, beatings till you get crippled for life in Nigeria, etc etc.
- producing fake coins is not something that one can do in his garage, rather it does involve a team of metallurgical specialists and equipment that easily reaches into million + us dollars.
I will stop my comments here pointing out that the statement in the video “nobody knows where they come from” is false.
once i accidentally bought a fake off ebay, and when i told the seller it was a fake, they called me stupid, as they had sold 2 before with positive feedback.
Unless you know what to look for in Sovereigns, never buy on ebay. Keep to good coin dealers or bullion dealers, who will refund you, should they slip up. I have collected these pieces for over fifty years now, and know all the fakes that have ever come on the market. I worked at the Royal mint during the middle 60s on the Mary gillick sovereigns and early 70s. There is so much to say about the different fakes of Sovereigns and halfs, it would take a book, but keep to good bullion dealers, and well known coin dealers and you will not go far wrong.
Some of these know they are selling fakes, make sure you get a refund.
St George's leg is bent at the knee differently
so what about the guys that fake historic the coins but use real solid gold or silver to weight, how do you know you have a fake or counterfeit...
This is why I bought a sigma precious metals verifier. It does not lie. It’s the only thing that can tell you if your coin and your slab are fake.
Golden Banjer that won't help you with numismatic fakes using accurate metal content such as these sovereigns shown here
AnnThracks1 well I don’t buy numismatic coins. If the coin was made out of real gold and I bought it at basically spot, I wouldn’t be too bummed to be honest. No one would make a billion coin with real gold. It would be profitable. So there is some protection in that.
stupid question but is the fake gold or just plated?
I got a 1916 today St George seems not boldly struck on the back it's a Melbourne mint one... Any 1916 m George fakes going around??..
Sadly all dates and mint mark were forged. Can you show a picture, then I can tell you. Some Australian Sovereigns do appear strange, because their gold was very soft, and they often used silver for their alloy instead of copper from South African gold, Which made the London Sovereigns.
can you do ping tests for us to listen to from the reals and fake coins please?
Thank you for the public-service video. It is quite a troublesome thing. I can’t say as I have been taken, but then again how would I know for sure. Take care, LL
I hope it never ever affects you LL
Are they gold then?
I mean if they're not gold that should be very easy to identify. Old fakes. Back then if they're gold of same alloy why would you bother making fakes?
A scale, a caliper and the "ping" test (there's a great app that'll analyze the ping resonance frequencies) shouldn't that rule out just about any fake?
what is the weight of the fake?.
Would be interesting to see how they ring on a metal detector
The 2 Canadian coins looks very similar. Seeing them for the first time I would probably just thought the flatness on the fake was due to usual wear. Do you know if the fake is made of gold? It may be a very old fake close in date to the real coin and used by the faker simply as a circulation coin.
Yes me too as I am always an optimist
Would someone like hatton gardens be the best to buy sovereigns or could fakes pass through them as well?
Fakes can pass anywhere, but most dealers have a good eye for most type fakes.
Please don't tell me that 2 bob notes are fake..... I've got a drawer full of em .
Its gotta be gut wrenching
I want to tell you that I have such a gold coin of 1911. Please tell me if I can make some money from it.... Thank you
Hi I’ve only just started collecting gold sovereigns I have 6 already where is the best place in the uk to send and check them in really worried now they look good to me but I’m new to this 😮
Did you find an answer for this?
Depends where you live. Malcom board gold coin Exchange charring cross will tell you, if your in London. Or Museums, make use of them.
This is what I dislike about buying gold! Are the fake ones gold at all or some other type of metal? Do they weigh the same? Is it safe to buy the new ones from a dealer? Less charm of course but I prefer safety to charm. Thoughts anyone?
Jo Do: Many of the fakes are gold-plated on top of some other metal. Always buy direct from a well-known reputable dealer with a "real world" address (not just an online one), especially on Ebay. The national mint of your own country will usually be a safe place to buy from.
@@paganphil100 do the dealers test the gold coins they buy? I'm sort of counting on it.... 🙈
Has a fake ever got passed grading? And would we even know if one did? It could be out there neatly slabbed with the imprimatur of NGC.
Yes sadly many, and holed at the edge.
The answer is yes, and quit a few which is disturbing.
Yes I am afraid so, but it is rare.
@@philippayne4951 what is ‘holed at the edge’? Damage to the rim?
Interesting video. Yeah I would find it hard to spot a fake one at first glance. I deal mostly in silver and even with neodymium slide testing and weight testing I am just about 100% confident of them being legit. Gold tests are still a big mystery to me. JJ
Did you weigh the 1911 sovereign on a digital scale? How about measuring for the diameter and thickness? Do they all fall in the tolerable measurements of a genuine sovereign? Using all 3 of those measurements should give you a good idea if it is fake, right?
Not necessarily. There are many fake sovs that are 22 karat. it's not just about the metal content
The sovereign 1959 looks smaller!!!!! But diámeter is ok!!!???? Dont know what yo do!! Weight is Aldo ok
7.98/8.02 gr.
Yes,I dos that, bit srill In in doubt! The so
wow really good quality fakes would fool me - thats why I steer away from numismatics - great video
You must never be put of about fakes, If you Love coin collecting and you are worried you have a forgery, their are many good collectors and dealers out their who will help you. You also have Museums the British Museum and the Royal mint, where they will check them for you, A Mr Robert Dyer runs the Royal mint Museum along with other members of staff, who will check your coins. The secret is to learn about the coins you are interested in.
well said and you make good points. Im just more of a bullion man at heart but I can certainly appreciate numismatics for their beauty and rarity.
Do not be put of by that, buy from good coin dealers or bullion dealers and you will be fine.
Amazing!
Great and informative video numi. What did the fake sov weigh?
I will try to find my scales and weigh it
@@Numistacker any update?
I usually purchase my sovereigns, pesos, francs, etc on eBay from the likes of Liberty, Apmex, etc. Any reports of fakes and counterfeits from these and other well-known companies? Appreciate any insights/experiences.
Be very careful when buying gold coins on ebay.
Now that you showed them side by side with true one slabbed it’s easy to see. Send the fake one to CCT 😃
This is why I preferred slabbed gold!
But they have slipped up on occasions.
Destroy all fakes...
The color is not the same and the mustache line is off, its not as crisp, as the original. Thanks for sharing.
Is it was of real gold
I have one coin 1918 but I don't know this fake for original🤔
Hi numi i don't have IRB on the reverse of my coin and noticed most of you'r genuine coins don't either. It doesn't mean it's a fake does it?
i have 2pcs of this,1910 and 1927
Are they real gold?
Hello I recently found a sovereign coin (1818) and there’s something very different about it. It has a square in the stomach area of the horse and a hand to the bottom left of the horse I’ve been searching the internet for ages and have not found a single coin like it with the hand and square. Please respond I need to know if my coin is worth a lot
I have coin 1918... 1 woent sell it... Wheat is value
I've got a fake that has a higher gold content than the original.happy days.xrf .
Could it be that some of this fakes are in fact Gold? If so this maybe just a case of gold smugle
LOL... not helpful comparisons... between a MS-63 and a what appears to be a worn coin.
Good info ! 🐒🍌🐒🍌
I have a coin like this 1906
I like the French rooster sovereigns
Come to my cask 1889
Bom dia .
Tenho uma moeda dessa na data de 1911, que é falsa .
Pra falar a verdade nem mesmo é de ouro !
Infelizmente não tenho como mandar uma foto para que você podesse ver.
Lamentável.
Ótimo vídeo é muito instrutivo.
Parabéns pelo canal.
Like
Ur suppose to weight them.hardest thing to fake.
:(
Test
worrying... this year i started collecting for investment, not sure if i should continue.
the head side of the coin is facing the wrong way
Your fake example is proper gold content correct?
Wasted 9 min!
Israel T. Was that including the time to comment?
Je fais vous publiez la pièce 1914 GEORGIvS .