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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- What are your thoughts when it comes to throttles on electric bikes? Probably one of the more common topics that come up when speaking with new eBike riders is the question of whether or not they need a throttle. My personal opinion, most people don’t need one. But let’s get into it!
We want to know what you think, should an eBike have a throttle?
Timecodes:
0:00 Opinions on eBikes with throttles
0:35 Most common comments when purchasing an eBike
1:30 Most people do not need a throttle
1:50 eBike throttles for hills
2:30 eBikes with good pedal assist don’t need throttles
3:00 Are eBikes with throttles considered motorcycles?
3:30 Always getting exercise on pedal assist bike
4:50 Throttle eBikes for mobility or health issues
5:45 Using throttle eBikes for deliveries
#ebike #throttle
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I am a 75 year old lung cancer survivor who suffers from emphysema. Sometimes I just can't muster the breath to pedal and need to use the throttle.
I was and am an avid cyclist and would not be able to ride at all without the use of throttle when needed. I sometimes pack along my portable O2 generator just to be able to be out there.
Please don't shun me for for needing help.
I got Spina bifida occulta and ride , keeps me in shape and walking without killing myself and is kinda cool
Sure, throttles can be abused, but as a 76 year old with a bum leg, I'm happy to use mine once in a while. Only for starting out and hill climbing though.
I once fell off my bike and broke my leg. Still was able to carry a few boxes of produce up a hill and get back home safely, peddling with my one good leg and using the throttle as much as possible.
My dad is heading towards 72 and has some severe leg issues. He likes going for a walk but sometimes his leg really bothers him. I've gotten him on a bike and the coasting gets him around and out and about but I can imagine going up hills is one of the reasons he doesn't make an effort to go out on a bike but the pedaling motion has got to be good for his joints
@@AmitZinmanVideo Throttle all the way. I’m mostly in it for cruising not peddling…that’s just me though.
One more thing has to be highlighted: in some countries (for example Italy, or Ireland etc etc) the throttle changes the status of the bike from bike to scooter, with effects on mandatory registration and insurance; being the “assisted pedalling” considered different and more bike-like and the throttle more (electric)motorbike-like. In some other countries they are even banned. That’s a very important piece of the discussion I believe.
oh yeah- I didn't even understand the title of the video at first.. what we call e-bikes in Germany is actually a "Pedelec". That means it can't have a throttle, because it only may assist your pedalling and it also is not allowed to assist at speeds higher than 25 km/h. The next class (up to 45 km/h) "S-Pedelec" already needs insurance, you need the right drivers licence and you are not allowed to drive on bikeways anymore.. so I have never actually seen one of those
Cities even in Florida where I live are starting to limit or outright ban e-bikes. The vibe I get is that they're pushing for clarification and a new classification if it can be powered without pedaling. From what I've seen in my area, I think this would be a good thing. In other areas where cycling has always been part of the culture and everyone is generally safe and courteous, I think bans and classifications aren't needed. And for what it's worth, I do have a mobility disability and another disability for which I use a service dog, so I do know that exceptions are warranted.
Agreed. Exactly the case in Spain. An ebike with throttle is classified as a motorcycle which requires insurance and driving licence. Also not allowed on bike pathways.
I changed to a Trek Avant 5 plus with Bosch CX. Frankly never missed a throttle. There is assistance for initial pull away from stop as part of pedal assist. Bosch CX offers more than sufficient power for pedal assist with long range. So be aware with pedal assist with no throttle that choice of motor, power assist options and pull away functionality is important.
It's dumb if electric scooters with throttles and no seats, limited to 25 km/h, are legal just like regular bicycles, but electric bikes, also limited to 25 km/h but with throttles, exactly like the scooters, aren't treated the same.
It's the same in the UK
I'm strongly in the pro throttle camp. While 95% of the time I use just pedal assist (on levels 1or 2 out of 5; higher on steep hill or into a headwind), the throttle is still helpful. I have a neurological condition, and sometimes I hit my limit faster than expected, so I may be a few miles from home and if it weren't for my throttle, I'd have to uber home. It is also helpful at busy intersections and spots where a little burst of speed can get you out of trouble. While it's not my default mode, I'm thankful that my bike has a throttle. After having an e-bike with a throttle, I don't think I'd ever want one without a throttle.
"With good pedal-based control". That's the key right there.
I love my Riese & Muller Supercharger. Great bike. But the price isn't affordable for most people. Even less-expensive bikes that use a Bosch system with torque-sensing motor control, or similar from a different manufacturer, are still not _cheap_ .
For many, a hub-drive, cadence-activated, super-low-cost e-bike is what they can afford. Having a throttle is like a band-aid that helps ameliorate some of the inherent defectiveness of a cadence-activated controller. Yeah, it's be great if everyone could afford the fancier tech. But they can't, and having an option for everyone else is still better than no e-bike for them at all.
Plus, some people just like feeling like they are getting away with something. Personally, I have a life-long love affair with my bikes, and the whole experience of pedaling is part of the joy. The e-bike gives me the exact same joy, except there's always a tailwind at my back. But not everyone's like that. As long as they haven't juiced the bike beyond a reasonable 15-20 mph max (or if they have, they stay on the street with the motor vehicles), what do I care if they prefer having a throttle to actually pedaling the bike around?
I have both throttle and PAS options on mine
I find I switch between them pretty regularly, depending on the situation. I wouldn't want just one or the other.
Best of both worlds
Agree, I love having both pedal assist and a throttle. Sometimes when I'm riding home late at night, I don't want to get my heart rate revved right before trying to sleep - being able to use the throttle for hills, etc helps me get home and get to sleep.
My personal experience using an ebike as my main daily vehicle is that throttles are great! I almost always use pedal assist because I love biking and the throttle uses so much battery it's really only practical for short trips or a burst to get out of sketchy situations. Really the thing is pedaling is fun, throttles are fun, the throttle isn't a crazy thing to integrate, so if you can have both why not?
As a 50+ age person. I use my throttle as a NOS/turbo button (for a little boost). like when the green light turns yellow as am in the middle of intersection. just to get clear as fast and safely.
Most of the time I have my pedal assist set to '0'. If am going over 7 miles, I'll turn pedal assist to '1'. IF IT'S over 105 fahrenheit, I use pedal assist '3' (of 5).
Exactly! I use pedal assist 1 as much as possible for exercise, but if I'm in a hurry or going up a hill (my bike weighs at least 100 pounds), then I'll go with level 2 or 3, and up the steep hill to my house I'll switch to 4, even using the throttle to get up the even steeper driveway, if needed. Hills, intersections, busy streets, sketchy situations - gotta have a throttle for quick bursts.
I need a throttle. My knees are shot. RadRunner with 35 amp controller works for me.
As a man with messed up knees, I love my eBikes to have a throttle. Luckily, my current one has it.
There are days I really can't push any further even with the highest level of pedal assist, and use throttle just to save my ass back to home.
I can definitely say having a throttle is a nice addition to your eBike, if your laws allows it.
Agree - This is why my wife got a throttle. It is only used when her knees need a rest or to get home. Throttles have their place. And on many newer bikes, you can remove them and only use peddle assist. I like to have choices.
Agreed!
ditto. I actually carry a spare throttle in my pannier, for that worst case, if I'm far from home and riding through knee pain isn't an option. So far I haven't needed it, but in a pinch, I'll have it.
@@karlInSanDiego is it wireless? What bike do you have that has a conveniently removable throttle?
My first ebike experience was on one of the cheaper internet ebikes with a throttle, so when I was shopping for mine, I had that on my list of wants. I wound up choosing a Trek Rail 7 that only has pedal assist, but it’s a Bosch system and it’s incredibly well implemented. In turbo mode, I’m practically just moving my feet around in little circles and the bike is doing almost all of the work, so not having a throttle hasn’t ever been an issue for me, even when climbing steep hills - there’s always a gear where the motor can power me up with me not doing much work at all, but that’s obviously only on a mid-drive with a good system and enough gearing and torque. I don’t really “miss” not having a throttle.
I do have a part of me that would really love having one, though, so in that sense I guess I “miss” having one, but it’s never been any issue in actually riding my bike. It has plenty of power to do everything with only pedal assist. I haven’t had any negative impact from not having one.
I’d say the only dog I have in this fight at all is that having a throttle does make it a lot easier as well as more tempting for people to ride irresponsibly and take other people’s safety for granted without them having any say in the matter. If you have to pedal, while you CAN ride just as irresponsibly, since it requires some amount of constant physical effort, it’s a lot less common. Kind of like how it’s a lot harder to accidentally cut someone’s head off than it is to accidentally shoot someone dead. Most people are capable of doing both, but the real world odds of either one happening are just completely different.
But I wouldn’t want it legislated because there’s no way I could ever anticipate everyone’s situation, and there are so many where a person would either want or need a throttle, and for those situations, I would rather they have a throttle and be out there riding than not have a throttle and not get to ride. I’m cool with people wanting a throttle for any reason they deem to want one - I would only ask that everyone (throttle or not) please be respectful of others out there and mind everyone’s right to safety. The only stance that I would consider on restricting throttles would be to require them to be an optional addition that can never come on a bike by default, but only when requested by the owner - even if it were a no cost addition, because I think that would afford owners an opportunity to become informed and to think about whether or not a throttle will actually be a net positive or a net negative for them and their experience. I know that I would be tempted a lot to use a throttle if I had one, and I know it would be a lot easier for me to be careless if I had one, so I’m kind of happy that it wasn’t an option on my bike. I think everyone should have that choice by default.
Super helpful, TY!
A throttle can add a lot of utility to a cheaper ebike with only a cadence Sensor.
Most cadence sensors are dumb and it can be quite hard to modulate your speed with them. But throw a variable throttle on there and control of the bike's power feels far more natural. Not as natural as a bike that knows your every move, but that might cost a thousand bucks more.
I honestly use my throttle more when going slowly than going fast.
And it definitely helped me out when I got my shoelace stuck in my drive chain while crossing a bridge.
My spouse has claudication which means excruciating leg pain while pedaling when it starts. That means we have to stop until the pain subsides (usually about 10 minutes). We like riding together and a throttle would allow us to continue without stop and go. I see from the comments that there are people with disabilities for whom riding would be possible if e-bikes had even momentary throttle control as a supplement to pedal assist.
I feel like you hit a point right at the beginning. A good bike with good sensors.
I have a bike with hub drive and poor sensors that I use as my pack mule commuter with its racks and baskets.
The PAS isn’t great and I actually use the throttle 90% of the time.
That would most likely not be the case if I had a higher quality bike.
There are as many reasons, or not, for having throttle. Our first ebikes were: a Rad Rover for me, and a Rad City for my wife. Both have throttles. We found a throttle to be a great for crossing streets, getting going from a dead stop, and those times when you just want to take it easy and cruise. When we decided to get new bikes, I opted for a Cube Kathmandu 625 45, a speed pedalec, because it is more like a bicycle and offers ample power and torque to get going. My wife on the other hand insisted on staying with a bike that has a throttle, because of the afore mentioned reasons.
It depends on how the throttle works, Here in the UK/EU the rules are much more stricter with regards to e-bikes and how fast they can go before cutting out power. There are many reasons for this, but I think the main reason is that bicycles are not classed as vehicles and so they can be used on public walkways. Hence there is a lot more reservation for e-bikes in general but especially bicycles with throttles.
There has been a landmark case however in the UK where a manufacturer (Wisper) has managed to include a full throttle bicycle in their product and still class their bicycle as an E-bike/pedelec. The way they managed to do that was that they limited the amount of speed the bike can reach with the throttle (15.5mph).
So I think, there can be room for the throttle to join cycle paths with e-bikes and bicycles as long as it doest reach really fast speeds and end up functioning like a moped or motorbike.
Yes, according to the government information sheet as long as the motor is 250w and the max speed is 15.5 mph throttles are legal in the UK but not the EU.
My bike has a throttle and I find I use it for specific things. Getting my bike going after I stop, crossing a street and getting up a steep hill. I do have gears, but sometimes the throttle gives you a boost. My bike is 62 pounds, I rode it 2 weeks ago with petal assist off. I like options.
With a good torque sensor, I've never missed having a throttle. I like working the gears and always being engaged to bicycle experience. And starting from a light, is very easy. The motor's helping me instantly, seemingly before my cranks even rotate. My bike's a Gazelle T10.
I’m 80 and my first ebike was only pedal assist and starting and crossing streets was difficult. My current ebike has a throttle and I only use it on strarup and crossing streets. The rest of the time I peddle.
Thanks for your consistently great content!
In the 🇬🇧 my folding e-bike has no throttle. I'm disabled with very weak and painful legs plus a balance problem. Learning to ride again was fun! I used the 'walk assist' button for starting off which was an enormous help. Now I have a full understanding of how the seven gears work in relation to the power levels I can get started with just the weight of my legs rotating the pedals. The one place I really could use a throttle is on a very steep long hill linking our village with another at the top. I can only just make it up there on a 'good' day but I would love to have that extra help to go there on *any* day I choose.
I'm 64 with Emphysema/COPD. I also have neuropathy. I've ridden thousands of miles with and without a throttle. In the beginning the throttle helped me get started. The throttle broke and I rode PAS only for a few thousand miles. My stamina had improved and it was indeed doable. Using the throttle I don't get the range I get with PAS. It takes a bit of self control. There are instances were the throttle definitely help.
I like having it but I'm not one of those who use throttle only all the time. I've seen those out on the bike paths who treat their e-bike like a motor scooter and never peddle. Seems a bit like a waste in range to me as that drains the battery tons faster, plus laziness... I like exercise . But I like to use throttle across intersections to get me up to speed faster and I like having it in case I'm out on a bike ride and something happens where I need to get home without peddling like a minor injury or I'm out of breath or feeling ill, or something like that.
I am pretty much exactly the same. I only find myself using the throttle to start up from a complete stop or going up a hill.
My converted ebike (started life as a Bianchi hybrid) had a throttle in addition to a cadence sensor. I never, ever used it. I did find that in the rain, the throttle housing on the handlebar was not watertight, and so issued uncommanded signals to the hub motor to spool up. Not a nice feeling on a wet road.
My Gazelle purpose-built ebike has no throttle and I do not miss it. You do need to understand that your bike has gears for a reason, and so, at a stop, you need to be in the correct one. Other than that, no throttle needed whatsoever.
My conversion is a Bafang mid-drive on a Huffy Parkside comfort bike. Over time I've stripped off the 27.5x1.75 tires it came with and started using 1.4" Schwalbes (26x1-3/8). Best tires in the world and tubes are everywhere.
I'd like a better frame, but I admit to being addicted to the 650B.
Personally i think the ideal setup for.. all vehicles, really.. is how mid-drive e-bikes work. Having the motor assist simply make it easier to pedal means you get the intuitive physical feedback of a normal bike, intuitive and safe acceleration (i despise how front-drives and e-scooters just snap into full speed almost instantly, it's so jarring and unsafe!), analog speeds (front-drives in my experience have a set speed per assist level, it sucks), and having coaster brakes is also just incredibly intuitive.
Controlling the vehicle's speed with your feet is also just more reliable than a throttle and hand brake, with a throttle you might ride over a bump which causes your hand to move and suddenly you're going twice as fast.
there should be both options. as someone who have commuted for a decade and counting i prefer to just use throttles to work now. i do not like a sweaty back during the summer-especially when i wear nice clothes. when i'm on my way back home or out for groceries i pedal or use the assist depending on how exhausted and heavy the food is. the problem here is that some people don't discipline themselves and they do tend to use what is easier and that's to go throttle instead of using the pedal assist. why work harder when you can have it easier? this is 15 miles all around trip just to go to work and back. before ebikes became a thing i was using a specialized diverge throughout the years, all season. i had no assistance so i disciplined myself that i can pedal. so saying no is easy for people like me while some people who don't cycle as much will have a hard time not pushing or turning it.
Love seeing both sides. I just got a bike with both and honestly I love the throttle a lot more than I thought I would, it's super fun when I'm tired on my way home from work. I feel guilty using it though, I definitely don't rip past people or even really use it around others on paths, but still feels like a cheat
Initially, a throttle was a must for me. After much research and the discovery of peddle assist, drop the requirement. What followed was the quality of an ebike, found bosh motors for peddle assist and Gazelle with a performance motor, boom, done deal and no regrets...
I agree with you , I used to have a Bosch motor ebike. What I couldn’t live with was the “hit wet cement” at top speed cutoff.
Yes, I wonder if I would be better off with a more powerful motor... Got what I could afford though. 🤔
Yep - I have a Gazelle Ultimate C380+, which has a nice belt drive, and don't need a throttle even with bad knees.
@@BikerForJustice With the newer Bosch motors (since Bosch’s are designed as a “system” approach), you can upgrade the computer to one of the higher end models and then connect to it with a phone app over Bluetooth and adjust the assist levels at different speeds to make the top speed cut off a lot smoother so you don’t get that “slammed into the handlebars while pedaling like mad” feeling when you reach its cutoff speed. It is an additional cost in the app, but it’s like $5 and it’s a one-time upgrade. You can do this with either the Kiox or Nyon computer upgrade, and I think there’s at least one other one that allows the same functionality. I did it on my Trek Rail 7 a few months ago and it’s a handy thing to be able to do.
This drives me crazy too but it's the stupid EU law. Those car driving people are making law to make life worse for all of us.
I just had an ebike conversion kit installed. Came with a throttle and cadence sensor but I couldn't install the sensor since crank was stuck. So I only have throttle and only way to have pedal assist is to cut off and install a new crank. Kinda bummed out but maybe I'll ha e more control with the throttle and not need the Pedals to activate the motor. Is it worth it to go through hassle of cutting off the crank?
I had a Longtail with torque sensor and throttle. It was great as others have said for getting through intersections quickly. It made it safe to stop at the front of the traffic and know I could get out of the way. I've upgraded to an R&M Load, with all the great features Chris mentions. But there have been times I couldn't make it up a hill and the walk assist was marginal on its assist. I've also changed my approach to intersections recognizing I can't get up to speed as quickly as the cars any more - I use the pedestrian beg buttons more now, which is a right pain with a front loader I tell you. I did realize how much harder I was working on the Load too, reflecting that I'd fallen into the habit of using the throttle more than I realized. I always pedaled, but was assisting with the throttle as well. Overall I use the bike to ride, so I like what I've got, but definatelty see the merits (and downsides) of a throttle.
I have a hub-drive bike with a throttle that has been invaluable in Canadian winters. When the temperature drops to -15C and below my glasses fog too quickly for me to commute safely, but I'd say riding the throttle enables me to commute between -15C and -5C relatively safely.
That said, recently I've watched your videos about the Tern GSD, about belt drives, and about the different hub gears. I love the information you put out there, and I really appreciate your perspectives. I've come around to the idea of trading off the throttle in exchange for a much lower maintenance bike. The throttle is nice, but the extra wear and tear from the winter takes me off the road more often than the low temperatures.
I bought a Nevo 3 with a Rolhoff IGH a month ago. It has no throttle, just pedal assist. I've had no issues starting from a stop, even on some good size hills. The good thing about the Rolhoff is that it automatically shifts to a low gear when you stop. You never find yourself in a high gear, standing on the pedals, trying to move from a stop. I don't miss not having a throttle. Without it, I'm guaranteed to get some exercise when I'm riding my bike.
Yeah, the Rolhoff hub is a dream. It's great if you can afford it. But even without it, bikes with torque-sensing motor controllers (Iike the Bosch system) are still pricy. Having a throttle helps mitigate usability issues that exist with the cheaper technologies, and allow people to get an e-bike that works reasonably well at a price they can afford.
In a Midwest city with basically no bike infrastructure my throttle comes in handy. I use it to navigate tight turns on sidewalks to get through interchanges so I can focus on not getting hit (because my PAS would take me too fast). Also it helps me get going from a stop so I can leave my bike in top gear so I don’t have to downshift at a stop.
But, I find holding the throttle without pedaling strange, so the pedal assist is my main way to go. The throttle is a nice assist that I like having, but I don’t ride it like a motorcycle… otherwise I’d just take my motorcycle.
TLDR, the throttle makes my ride simpler, less changing gears, less changing PAS levels along my commute.
I'm in my 70s and live in very hilly area. My present ebike is not powerful enough to get me up a lot of them so l'm going to switch to a more powerful one with pedal assist and a throttle. Needs must as we say in the UK. Do you say that there?
In my town they are practically essential. We are called the pg bowl for a reason. The closer you get to the center the lower you are and the further out you go the higher you are. God probably had his cheerios for breakfast one day or something. Anyways. There's lots of stops and it's so hard to engage the motor without a throttle. I'm sorry sir I just highly disagree with your opinion. I realize you said most people. But I still think in large most people would want a throttle. It's a nice "addition to have" that I will always take. I think both our opinion are based on where we bike. You are in a large city with probably pretty good infrastructure then I can see not having a throttle but for me I go to work on my bike I can't drive so it's bike walk or bus, so after 8 hours of janitorial work I would rather use my throttle to get me going. I think a throttle is essentially a turbo, it just gets me up to speed when tired so I can "keep" biking. Throttle for life. Sorry if I sounded condescending I do value your opinion and watched the whole of your video you deviated here and there but you seemed pretty firm with your opinion so I felt it was appropriate to stay firm with mine.
Really nice editing! I like the nuanced take on the video. I feel like people should try both and default to pedal-assist if they can and go throttle if they need it.
I like having a throttle even though I don't use it that often as it can really suck down the juice. Sometimes I just want to zoom for a bit.
The throttle comes in VERY handy in super slow tight situations moving through crowds of people. I can keep my pedals steady and just blip the throttle to stay up. A good e-bike will have both the throttle and pedal assist.
I really love the thoughtful content that you post. When using my cargo bike, I almost always pedal in the highest gear with the maximum pedal assist because I'm usually in a hurry and frankly it's fun for me to ride fast. There are a couple instances when I find it helpful to have a throttle though. On our way to school in the morning there is a stop sign where I have to come to a complete halt before turning and going uphill. The throttle definitely comes in handy with a full load of two kids and their backpacks. Also, after I drop the kids off I like to zip from the curb when there is a break in traffic from all the other parents dropping their kids off and rushing to work. Other than those two instances I rarely touch the throttle.
There are two moments when I am grateful to have a throttle in one of my eBikes. By having the head start at an intersection at a stop or traffic light change and at the end of a bike lane due to the innumerable and extensive gaps in the inventory of bike facilities, competing with the aggressive behavior of the wannabe Nascar drivers that plague North American cities. I'm not a MAMIL ("middle-aged man in lycra"). It is my mode of transportation. I do it to (1) enjoy the landscape of the city and (2) to move from one place to another avoiding using a car.
Where you said "somedays you dont feel like riding and just want to scoot along". I've had days like that as a cyclist, still had to get to work and it was the pedalling that made me feel better. Pedalling is such great therapy and if I had throttled along instead, I'd would miss out on that therapy. Frankly, I didnt find long rides on a ebike to be particularly helpful. They have their uses, I'm not arguing otherwise.
Oh boy this is a complicated topic ... I started e-biking in Jan 2020 so just as COVID was ramping up. I live close to a beautiful bike trail along a river and my first ebike was an inexpensive little fat tire folder with throttle, hub motor, cadence sensor and a 7 speed cassette. It was a fast little bike and because of shutdown and my nearing retirement (small business owner) I rode that bike 5 times per week I started out going 20 miles, then 30 miles each day.
I wanted more range and since I was mostly (99%) pedaling I decided to step up to a very nice mid-drive, torque sensing throttle less road bike with 50+ mile range. That bike hooked me big time into riding and since then, I purchased 10 more ebikes (of many different types) for myself, family and close friends who all found them incredibly useful and beneficial to their health and fitness. It was also a great way to get outside during COVID lockdown (love that California weather).
I am now retired and have settled on 2 throttle less bikes and ride 200+ miles per week. My wife is still working but she loves her throttle equipped bike but always pedals. We ride together some evenings and most weekends. We have a hitch bike rack and now take our ebikes with us on many excursions to the mountains and coast.
I guess my point is that it really doesn't matter which method of propulsion you use. Test ride before you buy and get the bike you like and most importantly, will actually use. It is a great way to get outside and get some, or if you prefer, a lot of exercise. Changed my life ...
I have a Carbo X and value my throttle a lot in NYC traffic. There are times where you need to accelerate fast out of different situations where you can't accomplish the same speed by pedaling from a stand still. I also habitually use it to accelerate after waiting at a stop light so that I am at a high enough speed to naturally let the pedal assist kick in much smoother. I also value the throttle when something goes wrong that prevents me from pedaling - for example the crankshaft bolts fall off, the crank gets loose, the belt falls off and I can't get it back on etc. Normally you should check these before riding, but there are times where you haven't inspected it before leaving because you're in a rush, or situations where they get loose while riding. Sometimes you also need the extra push when riding up a steeper hill. So yes, I couldn't live without my throttle.
Got a PAS+throttle ebike a couple months ago. I rarely use that throttle, but since I've had knee surgery and it's always been on the back of my mind, that throttle feels like the ultimate safety blanket should I ever had a problem on my commute.
I have a temporary medical condition with my legs that cause bad knee pain simply by the motion of peddling, but that it probably because I have a sedentary lifestyle and life in a suburb far away from everywhere I need to go occasionally. So when I do head out of the house, I often over work my knees. So I'm glad the throttle on my cheap e-bike is there for me.
When it comes to self control not to use it when I don't need it, for me the issue of range is what keeps me in check. Since it is a cheap e-bike, it has a limited range, and I had bought a second battery to double my range. But it's a folding e-bike, and to change the battery, I need to fold the E-bike to change it, which is cumbersome. This has the benefit of encouraging me to peddle instead of throttle to avoid having to swap batteries. I can't say for sure if I would be able to resist throttling everywhere on an expensive e-bike.
I like how you presented the need for a throttle, I love cycling but due to my age and having cerebral palsy. I had to get a e-bike and I got one with a throttle and only use it when my left side that has the CP has muscle spasmI can use the thrattle to get me to a safe place to pull over and relax until it is over. That takes a lot of the pain out of riding a bike when the spasms happen.
The throttle on my Qualisports Volador S, has helped me many a time, when I needed to get across a busy intersection/scoot away from transients trying grab me off my bike!
I think a throttle is just a nice to have. I wouldn't be bummed if my rad power bike didn't have it, as long as the peddle assist worked as well as it does. For me I was prioritizing battery, ability to fold, and maintenance. Overall, I'm just glad more and more people are getting on bikes and out of their cars.
I just bought my first ebike, the packa genie, and am waiting for it to arrive. Is it more than I necessarily need right now, absolutely. If a good cargo capacity hadn't been such a high priority I probably wouldn't have picked one with a throttle, and its not even one of the things that sold it for me. Am I still really excited to get to play around with a throttle and to have that option should I end up wanting it, also absolutely. My bike is for transport and fun, if I get exercise then great, but for it to be a viable transportation option for me I need to be able to utilize it when I'm bone tired and can't pedal too.
I'm a heart patient and at 6 pm after a light office work day I am going nowhere on most bikes where hills are involved - eg home. Which bike with throttle should I consider getting? I've tested good pedal assist bikes and they're just not enough.
You'll need a Class 2 (max 20 mph throttle only) or a Class 3 (max 28 mph throttle only). Note that many areas have restrictions on bike class allowed so you will need to check where you will be riding.
I know this off topic but can you do a review of the new Reise & Muller Urban bikes.
Btw love your channel. Slowly working my way through every video.
I'm 73 yrs old, recovering from a bad bout of Covid that left me with sketchy stability, leg strength, and balance issues. I still love riding bikes and when my health stabilizes a bit I'll be looking to buy an ebike. I'll be looking at both (throttle and really good pedal assist), for a bike that can help me continue my recovery and regain my strength.
In the UK, ebikes are actually classed legally as Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles and are limited to 15mph (25mph) and 250w (max continious power), but are often refered to as Pedelecs.
The legislation was amended in 2016 to allow a 'twist and go' throttle, but the bike must retain pedals and be capable of being propelled by them.
Pedelecs provide assitance only when you peddle and only up to the 15mph (25 kmh). Becasue of this they do not require riders to have third party insurance, a driving licence, road tax or any madated safety equipment (crash helmet). You also have to 14 years old to rise a pedlec in the UK.
There are sellers of higher power and higher speed bikes, but these can only be used on private property (with the landowner's consent), not on cycle lanes, bridleways, roads, public land (e.g. parks and forrests).
Great video. Honestly, in my opinion, it depends on the rider and what they want/need, budget, etc. Lighter torque sensor cycles, especially mid-drive with a throttle, are more expensive than the heavier hub-driven bikes with a lower price point but include a throttle. I have ridden bikes with a cadence sensor and throttle and a torque sensor without a throttle. I prefer a torque sensor without a throttle because of the responsiveness of the motor. Torque feels the most natural and responsive similar to standard bicycles. A cadence sensor with a throttle is also nice to help get the bike moving since it might take a moment for the power to engage. Throttles are also nice for heavier bikes that weigh over 50 lbs; those can be harder to get moving without a throttle. Compared with a heavier bike with a torque sensor, starting at a higher PAS level has a similar effect as starting with a throttle.
There are some hub-driven bikes that have a torque sensor and throttle, so you can have the best of both worlds!
I am an able-bodied, smaller woman. I have ridden a cargo bike with a throttle. I own a cargo bike without a throttle. I carry 100+ lbs of kids on my bike. My daily ride includes a 490ft elevation gain, with the longest and steepest hill being 100ft elevation gain. (I do this twice/day.) I don’t need a throttle. It takes some work to get up it with kids and stuff in-tow, and I barely break a sweat. My biggest concern with a throttle, personally, is having less control. And I like that Bosch adheres to higher standards than other manufacturers, which for me means higher level of safety.
I have myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome and have very limited physical stamina. My ebike has completely changed my mobility, I can go almost everywhere and get out more and see some nature. So in my case, an ebike with a throttle is the only option, I would have no way of pedaling with assist, as it's still very physically strenous.
I have an e-scooter for times when I don't feel like using any physical effort to ride around with a throttle. My e-bikes will always be pedal assist only with no throttle. Bosch and Specialized make incredible mid drive assist motors. The whole point of a bike imo is to pedal. Using a throttle on a bike makes it more like a moped or motor driven cycle.
I have been riding motorcycles since 1960. At 72 years old I built a DIY ebike. I wish I didn’t need a throttle… I also wish I could use my legs like I did just a couple of years ago. Time is relentless. I still use pedal assist when I can but often I have to rely on a throttle for starting off and hills. Thanks for the balanced point of view, it’s refreshing to see! E-cyclists need the same balanced POV when comparing Mid drives to Hub motors. I started on a mid drive because I saw on a TH-cam video that they are superior… but since I almost never ride off road anymore the high power mid-drive was not nearly as nice as my dual hub drive system I am currently using. Is the hub drive best? It is for me… but it wouldn’t have been 20 years ago. Thanks for seeing all sides of an issue, I subscribed because of it!!! Thank you!!!!!
Usually, I like controlling the acceleration of my ebike with its torque sensor. However, I have an injured knee and aggravated hip that sometimes make it painful to exert much force, and sometimes I aggravate them in the middle of a ride, so I use the throttle my ebike has when that happens, especially starting from full stops.
With my ebike, I can tell it also senses movement of the crank and it runs the motor at a low level when I’m “ghost-pedaling” with extremely little force while coasting or gliding downhill. That makes me wonder if it could be switched between torque and cadence-driven modes. Most times, I’d prefer to use the torque sensor, but when my joints hurt or when I’m towing heavy cargo in my trailer, I’d prefer to use a cadence sensor, especially going uphill. It’d be great if I could switch on-the-fly with a toggle switch rather than digging through the settings to change modes. What do you think about ebikes offering this mode-switch capability?
I have both throttle and throttle-less. Are they necessary? Not for the average rider coming from a cycling background but for some yes. It is nice to have when you're forced to stop suddenly without a chance to downshift, but that's the only time I use mine (I do use the gears properly most of the time but in NYC traffic s**t happens). I don't understand the "need" to use a throttle just because it's there but perhaps that's because I only went electric so I could continue cycling when my knees and chest began to protest as I approached 50.
Appreciate the discussion. I've never had a throttle in many years of cycling. Likely one will come with the next bike I buy and I will give it a try. Much more likely that mid-drive & torque sensor features will influence my selection. On the other hand, if a throttled ebike gets people out of their gas vehicles have at it.
And my tweet (edited) made the video! I appreciate Chris’s positive approach to things. I dislike and will not deal with shops that put down other products, or use negative selling. If Propel were in British Columbia, I’d deal with them.
I don’t want a throttle for myself, I want the exercise and activity, but if it gets you out and around (especially if you suffer from really debilitating condition)- do it! Ignore the haters.
You keep saying "with a good sensor" and that is so true: On the Townies with the torque sensors, sure, go with pure PAS. On the RADs with just the cadence sensor, the throttle helps a lot.
I’m team throttle. I’ve never had an bike but in a few months my first one will be delivered. I am super excited for a throttle and to be able to get out there. I am really heavy so I don’t be able to pedal 100% of the time. Also it looks like a LOT of fun too
With throttle I can control my speed better than with pedal assist. I need that control, because a lot of bike lanes in my city are actually on a sidewalk so I use the throttle when I'm trying to avoid hitting people walking on a bike lane. I also use it for starting at a red light, it's so much faster than pedal assist
Mine has both throttle and peddle-assist but I almost never use peddle-assist. If someone says why I don't get an electric motorcycle, a few reasons but one is: they're not allowed on bikeways.
Why not just ask anyone who has a throttle. I wouldn't give me up for the world. And it's not because I'm lazy. I tun 14 miles every Saturday and a good bit in-between. I find they absolutely increase safety. They help around tight turns, starts in traffic, and a boost on tough single-track trails. If R&M had a throttle I would own one. - Perhaps your world is colored, as you only sell bikes w/o.
Try it, you'll like it!
Agree a decent pedal assist system with more than 1 sensor configured correctly can suffice in almost all cases. there will always be other use cases where a throttle can help out.
I'm 5'0 23y/o and in okay fitness, I use the throttle on my radrunner1 to get started from a dismounted stop because I really like that ability to get moving quickly, especially if I'm waiting for a light on a street. I also use it to move my heavy bike up stairs. As well as letting it set my cadence if I wanna go quickly, I'll pedal aright but when I give it a little throttle and go from 70-80% to 100% top speed it's nice to keep it there. That's more of a psychological thing but it's feels like the machine pulls more work out of me, which is one of the reasons I'm biking in the first place. It hasn't happened yet but I imagine also that if I'm just, dead tired and want to get home that throttle is gonna mean I get home.
*Not everyone can afford a mid drive bike.
*Hub Motors are the reality right now for the masses
*Not everyone rides in flat areas. Some of us live I hilly areas
*Hub motors take time to get going even for those in good shape. Especially on heavy cargo bikes.
*If you’re at a dead stop at an intersection and can’t get going right away you are in the intersection much longer and in front of cars behind you longer. This puts you in danger.
*Throttles can be a safety necessity to move quickly to safety on a hub drive heavy bike.
*I feel I need a throttle on my hub drive cargo bike. I have a few hundred thousand bike miles in my legs and 30 years of bike racing.
My ebike has a throttle. I only really use it if starting from a stop on a hill. Generally, I don’t think it’s necessary to have an opinion about everything everyone else does. If you want a throttle, great. If you don’t, that’s fine to. Not everything has to be an argument.
So what is your favorite road ebike with power but not too heavy?
My perspective. On my bike I have both. My motor is located on the front wheel and if my chain breaks I’ve still got a perfectly viable eScooter. Granted chains are better these days, more reliable but like anything even improved it’s not an absolute guarantee a break (Usually at the most inconvenient of times) won’t happen. Then there’s the really steep hills. For the most part I don’t find myself using the throttle but that too isn’t an absolute and it’s good to have options I think….
Good thoughtful well balanced overview with a lot of nuanced arguments on both sides.
One thing I can add is that the throttle allows adding power during a leaned turn. As we all know, bicyclists cannot really pedal the bike when leaned over as it will smash a pedal into the road. Also, the pumping legs will upset the balance of the bicycle during a lean.
Some may argue this isn't a huge problem as we can just level out before pedalling but it is an advantage when going up a winding mountain road and want to maintain momentum. Also, it just seems limiting in performance envelope to lose all power just because of a lean even on level ground.
I love my throttle in my Aventon Level. Sometimes i want to jump on the bike and cruise the neighborhood. Im not always wanting to get a workout.
Hey Chris! A throttle activated ebike is useful when towing a friend without a motor up hills! 😉
Great video and start of a debate.
Me and my wife have ridden bikes all our life. And eBikes since 2016.
We are now about 7 decades old and slowing down our life style in all ways.
Interestingly we and more me than Sharyn, ride eBikes about 5-7 mph slower than old road bikes and mtn bikes. I used to average 18-20mph on the road, but now eBiking I/we average 12-14mph. Getting older you realize slow and steady is safer and more enjoyable. We also now have "Dutch" style bikes, Momentum Transcend E+ mid drive class 1 bikes mid drive with internal rear hub shifting, no throttle.
We sold our fantastic Rad Rovers with throttles, we used for 5 years and loved. We also sold all our mtn bikes and road bikes this spring, 6 of them.
Do we miss the throttles? No.
Sort of just like I finally sold our non eBikes because we just did not use them any more.
The new automatic (Yamaha and Bosh both have versions of this) pedal assist combined with internal hub shifting, no derailleur is just so pleasant and easy to use and maintain. It sort of puts you back to being a kid with the single gear back pedal brake feeling. Super simple and enjoyable.
I have nothing against throttle bikes but I feel no need for one, and it is nice to have a class one bike that basically can be used on most bike paths legally.
We live in the White Mountains of NH. Lots of steep and long climbs, but also miles of valley riding with just moderate hills. The amazing thing with our new mid drives is that we get double the milage out of our bikes maybe even more like 3X the range of our Rads. Yes the Rads were 15 lbs heavier and I carried a second battery, just to not get stuck on the back of a mountain pass with no power. I rarely used only throttle but often used it to boost power up a hill, but I find the new mid drive is so much more efficient and easy to use I don't need the throttle.
As far as starting uphill or crossing a busy intersection, the mid drive is just as easy and quick.
Just my nickel, it is all good and good for you.
Keep your great vids coming.
When you have knee pain flare up mid ride, you will appreciate having a throttle. Aside from that I rarely use it. Mostly getting started from a stop due to shorter inseam and maybe not the best pedal assist on a lower cost e-bike that is 7 years old.
I found that moving to recumbent trikes with lots of gears that the motor is also not necessary, but is useful when riding with other people in order to not be left behind on hills. The motor I am adding doesn't have a throttle since there are no balance issues on a trike and with a trike you always have a place to sit and rest.
Ironically, my worst knee pain I got when riding a bike with a cadence-based/throttle-equipped motor controller. I was testing several different bikes over a week or so, riding the top contenders on my 25 mile commute. It was the throttle-equipped bike that hurt my knee so badly that it was four months before I didn't really notice the pain any longer.
Now, granted: it wasn't the throttle that caused the pain, but more likely the cadence-based control, which is inherently counter-productive (torque-based control is always boosting proportionally to your effort, cadence-based control has a tendency to work more when you don't want it to, and work less when you do...it's one of the reasons the throttle is more essential on those lower-end bikes).
And also granted: knee pain comes from a lot of different things. It's imperative to have a comfortable bike, adjusted to the rider, and for e-bikes, with a control system that works smoothly with the rider. But some people have knee pain from other reasons, and sometimes that's solvable and some times it's not. When I get knee pain, it's usually because I haven't been riding _enough_ , my muscles are weaker and don't support the joint well enough. Gradually working up my riding in intensity makes the pain go away.
But other people have different problems and if a throttle is what you need to make the bike ridable, then that's what you need, and it's a good thing there are bikes with that feature.
got a rad power because of the price, which has a throttle. When I first got the bike I used the throttle a lot, but now I almost never use it. I think the throttle was a novelty at first which was a lot of fun to use. Lately I tend to use the throttle if I'm at the end of a long ride and just feeling lazy. Only other situation I find myself using the throttle is sometimes just to get started after a street light. I live in a big city and the stop and go at street lights can be a bit annoying, having a throttle makes those restarts easier / faster. I could definitely live without it, but on a daily commuter bike its nice to have the option even if its not always used.
I did not get a throttle but made sure the motor had enough power for the hills I have in the PNW. I went with R&M Nevo. It works for my commuting of 20 miles total. I could not do the commute without pedal assist.
Great video and I've been asking this question. I'm a double amputee who wants to start bicycling using an e-bike. I want to start cycling to improve my overall health, but worry that I need the help of throttle control. I then go back to pedal assist because I need to push myself to do more. This seems to be a win, no-win situation for me.
For those without mobility issues that are interested in getting their first ebike it’s good to keep in mind that electrification is built upon an amazing 100+ year old technology that is the bicycle. Modern bicycle transmissions are great for allowing the right gear from a stop, going up a steep hill, and everything in-between. Add electric-assist (not a throttle) to a modern derailleur setup or internal hub, plus just a little bit of leg power and you’ve got all the tools to happily go car-free. Keep class-2 ebikes around for those that desire a throttle, but I’ll keep having fun and getting exercise while doing all the household grocery shopping, hardware store hauling, etc on my class-3, front-loaded cargo bike.
As always, great video and discussion Chris, Tara, and the Propel team!
My ebike came with a throttle. I like having it but use it sparingly because
1) battery range and
2) One of my reasons for riding is exercise.
But it comes in handy for starting up without having to crunch gears (especially on a bike path that I frequently use that has a lot of street crossings) and for momentary boosts of power on demand. It's also useful when I'm navigating a particularly congested area in the city, allowing me to focus my mind and energy on threading the needle without running into obstacles.. I'm glad I have the throttle. I use it mainly in short bursts. Could I live without it? Sure, but I don't really want to. It's a nice feature.
In the world of ebikes, "keeping it simple" is different than the world of mechanical bicycles. This means hub motors and a way to control power, which is usually simply a throttle. The drivetrain and gears are there to mimic the mechanical power delivery, but actually not necessary, and add to the weight and cost. It also adds complexity to a system to function as a whole, sensors, lubricated chains, etc. Having a mechanical drivetrain is nice to be able to get exercise and backup propulsion, again nice to have, but not necessary for ebikes.
I have one short nasty stretch on my commute. I'm always wondering about throttle but I went with thinner tires and a bit more pressure. I'm fine.
I am trying to find class 3 e bike on emtb without a throttle. It seems difficult to find reviews on these bikes.
You should reach out to us we have a couple of options
I wanted to know and I'm not getting the information is what kind of a throttle do you twist it back like a motorcycle or is it a lever like on a snowmobile or wet bike
I used to be staunchly pro-throttle but living in a tourist area I now no longer believe that.
Too many people treat them as minibikes and on a daily basis I see riding on the wrong side of the road, kids riding them 3 up and blowing stop signs, riding 20mph or more at unsafe distances through crowds of pedestrians, etc. - I really don’t want to see ebikes regulated off the bike paths and a majority of the reckless and offensive riding I see is from people using throttles and not pedaling.
The main reason I use the throttle is that my bike's pedal assist acceleration sucks. It goes fast suddenly, and that's unsafe, whereas the throttle is really smooth.
Otherwise, I use the throttle when encountering dogs. They seem less interested if they don't see my feet spinning.
Anyway, if you really want to exercise, you're better off with a good regular bike. I view the pedal-assist as a worthy trade-off of battery energy (always in fixed amount) for your own stamina (much higher and easier to maintain). It has its place even if you love the throttle, if only because the weak e-bike motor needs your help and the throttle alone won't get you that fast in good time, especially uphill or from a stop. If you want just to rely on a throttle, just get a motorized scooter or motorbike.
This got me thinking. I know I pedal less since my bike has a throttle and with the throttle I'm probably enjoying my ride less.
There are two concerns with me removing it however. First, in order to get to one of the bike trails to commute to work, I need to get on a stroad via a left turn. The throttle gives me a bit more confidence that I won't get hit by a car while on the left turn lane. And even with the throttle, I get anxious when cars are behind me.
The second is that when I'm buying to work, I'm trying to get there as fast as possible. I bought a very cheap e bike and even when I'm pedaling as fast as possible, it's not as fast as using the throttle. It's probably a difference of five minutes or less, but anything that gets me to work faster is what I'll use, which is why I'm sure I'm enjoying the ride much less.
Knowing this now, I'll consider not using the throttle when commuting back home. Thanks for posting this video because I've never thought about this until I watched it.
On a BBSHD conversion of my old hardtail I installed a throttle at first, but did not use it and took it off. This is cadence sense only, used as a commuter and cargo bike by adding trailer to carry to 100 lb. Without throttle the bike is legal on more types of bike paths in California. If I get tired on the commute I can turn up the boost.
I have a BBSHD kit. The pedal assist sensors have an annoying delay between pedaling and the motor kicking in, so I use the throttle from a standstill, then take over with pedaling. I would prefer if I just had throttle and no pedal assist. That would make the system a lot simpler and cheaper to produce.
In regards to cycling, i think many people get confused about what the objective is. For some, its a pure means of transportation. So if you're just trying to get from A to B, then why not have a throttle? If you're trying to get some exercise, but at the same time want some pedal assist, then a throttle wont help you. I've had both, I opted for no throttle on my second ebike because I was concerned about the legal aspects of a throttle on a 28mph e-bike. I think of a bike as a tool, every tool has its use.
My bike has PAS and throttle. I like having to throttle function for two reasons. One is when I’m commuting in traffic I can use the throttle to boost away on a green light ,which with the power of the motor keeps the bike nice and straight not wobbly especially if there’s a car right next to you.The second reason is I like to pedal really hard for exercise when I’m riding a lot of times I just turned the motor off and ride as a standard bicycle.When I start getting tired and just want to chill I use the throttle and Cost long still moving forward with taking a little bit of rest. This is especially nice for long distance.
Pedal assist to me is kinda like a cars steering system. I think it eases the ride 50% better than without it, however my only concern is to get an idea of how to translate it into some kind of 6/12 phase energy to fly from 50% 200%
I'm recovering from SI joint pain after jogging to many miles last year. I've tried riding my bike but the pain the next day was too much. I am looking into getting an e-bike with throttle so the wife and I can get outside and ride.
In my opinion, if it has a throttle it's not a bicycle. And for pedal assist bikes to be comparable do bicycles (no mandatory helmet, insurance, licence, etc), they should only assist up to 25 km/h.
When we surpass that limit, it becomes another type of vehicle. Not a proper motorcycle of course, but something in between. Not that they are bad, or shouldn't exist, just that they should belong to a different category. Cycle infrastructure is not designed to have people doing 40+ km/h while others are doing 15 or 20 on a flat route.
And if we set max speed in cities to 30 kmh as the default (on streets with people walking and cycling), than these throttled light vehicles can use the road safer.
There is one circumstance where my throttle is preferable to pedaling: approaching a red light. Cars tend to fan out when they stop at a red, and really crowd out the bike lane (if I'm lucky enough to have one), preventing access to the bike box at the head of the queue. If I try to pedal up past the stopped cars, the pedaling imparts a slight wobble, even at slow speeds. It widens my profile on the road, and increases the chance I might bump a stopped car. The throttle lets me slowly and safely creep up, with nice clean linear motion. Where I live, it's illegal to have a throttle, though, so I'm very careful about when and where I use it. Occasionally, once I'm off the road and on the bike path on the way to work, I get a little lazy and go throttle-only, because after a surgery a few years ago, I've had constant chronic pain, and sometimes pedaling makes it worse. Going throttle only also makes it easier for me to maintain a consistent speed, because my pedaling cadence is all over the place, and the pedal assist tends to just jerk me up to speed and then make me coast. It's not smooth. On the bike path, because it's a shared pedestrian place, I don't like going faster than 20 km/h. There's 75kg of me, and 30kg of bike. If I hit someone at my full speed of 25 km/h, they aren't getting up. Dropping my speed a little gives me more time to react if a jogger suddenly decides to jump out in front of me, or if someone lets their dog roam into my lane.
I have a heavy (65 pounds) hub motor bike with a throttle and no torque sensor. I appreciate having it for a couple of reasons. I only use it when I start up and when I need a short burst up a short, steep ramp or hill. I continue pedaling as I do it. If I have a longer climb I will shift down and increase pedal assist, if necessary. If I wanted a moped, I would get one.
I bought a new ebike and it does not have a throttle. I took it to a local bike shop to have it inspected after I assembled it. They said we can’t do any work on the motor or belt drive. I asked why and they said because of the throttle. I showed them it does not have a throttle. They were shocked it didn’t have a throttle and the mechanic slightly adjusted the belt. I’m not sure why this was an issue with them I can only imagine liability reasons.
Hey the assits says you're as strong as hercules what more do you want.