Chris - please don't be shy about taking about Propel as the sponsor of these wonderful videos. You put so much time in to them and they are really helpful. We want you to succeed!! Peace, love and bicycles from Rhode Island
I really hope belt drive and internal gear hubs become standard in the sub $4k (ideally sub $3k) market, I think beyond that it’s dismissing returns. IMO e-bikes should be more than commuters but full on car replacement, so comfortable frames, enough capacity for two people, low maintenance, and practical tech are the most important aspects to me.
Agree that eBikes should cost far less for SOME models. The whole idea is transportation at a reasonable cost for MOST people. Those who want to spend $4k are free to do so.YMMV
@@r.d.9399But I can't ride mopeds/motorcycles on bike lanes or everywhere else than a street, which is faster in cities if you can. If you live somewhwre where this is no problem, sure. (And the running costs are way cheaper too for an e-bike)
I don't live in a city. For me, a practical car replacement ebike will require much bigger batteries than most ebikes on the market atm. If I can make a round trip to the next town over without bringing a charger and loitering, then I've got a practical car replacement. And yes, I know there are a few bikes that do that. But they're either well out of my price range, or are sporting a 1000w motor which isn't legal where I live.
You really don't need a belt: At high loads, chain is still less drag. Likewise, there's scarcely one hub shifter rated for the peak torque of a cargo ebike motor, & that's before adding _any_ pedal force. A 250lb person standing on the front pedal exceeds the rating of every one of them.
You are always so positive and a loud leader in the e-bike movement. I hate that you are having to fight through some of this muck but very much appreciate what you do! I am planning on upgrading my bike next year and 100% plan on purchasing from Propel as I want to support you and your really great work. Thank you for fighting and educating and championing this movement.
A great update! As the owner of a Riese & Muller and Canondale e-bike I applaud the UL certification movement as a needed safety regulation. My next purchase will be a belt-drive, derailer free bike that’s lighter than my six-year old 28 mph Tinker HS.
I have a bike with a throttle and think of it as a safety device. I pedal 99% of the time. When I'm sitting at a busy intersection waiting to cross, from a dead stop, I pedal and hit the throttle to cross the intersection as quickly as possible. I would not want to give that up.
Similar here. Was part of my reasoning of getting an ebike (along with the hot summers here, not having to pedal as hard to move really does make an difference, since its my main form of transport rn) I can be a bit trigger happy with the throttle but mine hauls at 22-24 mph, dependent on battery percentage, I use it mostly for intersections or to pick up initial speed when I'm on the roads. Before the ebike I would be stuck at intersections for nearly 10 mins because I could not give my manual bike enough of a push to zip across in time during busier traffic, nearly made me late for work in some cases!
Same for me as well. I use it to get going in intersections. Its great for that. It makes no sense that these big manufacturers are building ebikes with throttles primarily for mopeds with pedals.
@@BMA0522 I actually turn down the assist when I'm climbing hills. Hub motors don't like climbing hills. I shift to the lowest gear possible, then use assist 1 so that I'm using as little power as possible, and I'm not at risk of overheating the motor.
I'm in Delaware, and the state has done a nice job, in my area, of adding bike lanes on the side of larger roads...Just the painted stripe close to the shoulder, nothing like in Europe where there are dedicated separate bike paths...Anyway, the thing that bugs me is that the restaurants, stores, or strip malls I would visit, there's no parking/bike racks even! I'd worry about my 30 yr old regular bike being stolen, let alone an expensive eBike! Ugh
I'm not sure I'd necessarily consider that a "nice job"--the adage is that paint is not infrastructure. Better than a sharrow but only just... Hopefully you can convince them that protected lanes are worthwhile soon. And, yeah, a place to lock up is essential. I'd honestly bring the bike in with you. If businesses don't have bike parking provided, bringing you bike in seems like a reasonable response. If they object, ask them nicely to put in bike parking and suggest the staple variety.
@@emma70707 Thank you, Emma. Yeah, I suppose I was being generous about "nice job" vs. (barely) better than nothing. 😂 I also wondered about breathing in the fumes from car/truck exhaust. The second part about bringing the bike inside is what had me considering folding bikes too. That and the narrow little townhouse I have (no garage).
@@ph5915 Yeah, if ever someone was looked at askance for wearing a mask, the looks get even more nonplussed when a rider _removes_ their mask to go inside because they only wear it while riding to reduce smog particulate inhalation!
My perception of Delaware bike infrastructure is "we painted a little bike lane stencil on the shoulder of this dangerous highway". There are a lot of bike lanes, but they're just paint with no real infrastructure change.
Also worth mentioning: when (if) congestion pricing takes effect in nyc that could def lead to more cargo bikes for small businesses and generally help make biking a more attractive option for a lot of people
I don't understand why people are upset regarding UL certification for batteries. I get more regulations and more gov't are a pain in the butt but it is obvious the industry and consumers can't regulate itself given the surge of battery fires and explosions with e-bikes. Set a minimum safety standard and filter out the junk being imported from countries where quality control is not in their vocab.
The industry brought this upon itself. Even domestic companies that were reselling foreign products should have been taking a stand against dodgy vendors selling dangerous products. It's not just poorly assembled packs that are the problems. There's also Chinese companies making fake batteries that have hardly any lithium in them. They test fine for the first week, but quickly lose their ability to hold a charge. When I worked as a bike tech, I've had foreign vendors offer me both options when it came to pack assembly. This also points to a bigger problem of the non-existent QC for most of the cheaper Chinese e-bikes. I used to catch all kinds of dangerous defects on these bikes that had nothing to do with the electrical system.
Depends on whether the US wants a protectionist society, or one that allows a full-fledged free for all with no regard to how actions negatively affect others. I agree and applaud the battery standards. I also think that battery tech should get more attention. I know several contractors that have recharged lithium batteries in their power tools for as long as 10-15 years, and our phones and tablets are often rated for as many as 500 charge cycles. These are lithium batteries. A battery life on an e-bike should be way longer than 3-5 years, that is stupid and ridiculous. I can understand it’s a different situation for daily commuters who might have to charge a bike every day, but for the average user who bikes for fun 1 or two times a week, we should get 12-15 years from a battery. If not, there is no sustainability there, sorry.
Problems I face in Rural Canada with regards to Ebikes: 1) No service/repair shops in my area. Huge problem. I have to order exclusively online (mostly from the US) to get the ebike I want. 2) Poor RANGE. All Almost all EBike manufacturers are concentrating on top speed. 3) Very expensive for what they offer.
Chris’ videos got me to set the bar higher when I was researching what I wanted in an ebike (with supply chain issues and backorder issues also considered). I went from researching hub drive to mid drives and stumbled across Propel video reviews. Then on a ebike rental experience I got to ride Specialized Comos and thought I wanted the Turbo Vado 5.0 IGH as my ultimate decision…. Only to find no availability. During my rental experience I saw some Gazelle bikes on the showroom floor and remembered Chris’ reviews. I was pre-educated and bought a ‘23 Ultimate c380 step through off the floor. No wait time (except my years of procrastination and my 6-pack salary and champagne tastes).
Most North American cities still suck in bike-friendly infrastructures, let’s be honest. This is the top one barrier to all bike growth, including e-bikes.
The ebike bans is a real concern in the city and I don't like to see it. I have friends who had to get rid of their ebikes because of this. I believe there are 2 ways to get these turned around and those are 1; get to a point where you have enough people speak up about it or 2; make a case from an accessibility standpoint. These bans through right now can seriously stifle the current growth..
Agreed, any time I have raised the subject of accessibility regarding where people bicycle & now ebike, I've heard nothing but support. Walking more than two blocks would leave me aching so I ride everywhere. I sometimes felt less than stoked in >100°F heat with poor air quality after a hip injury, so I eagerly got an excellent ebike with enough power to replace my leg effort if necessary. Only concern is not wanting to park it; same as my nice manual bike. So, sometimes it comes inside with me! No complaints, lots of compliments & eager questions from all kinds of people.
@@prophetzarquon, same. I have an old injury from a conventional bike accident and an ebike allows me to commute independently without pain because I can park by the door. Thankfully my apartment doesn't seem to mind at all--in fact I had an ebike when I moved in 5 years ago so they got used to it before all the fire hubbub.
@@emma70707 Amen to that! Paying to park & then walking a city block or more, started to feel really dumb, after the day I realized I could _coast_ to work & not have to walk until I'm 30ft from the desk!
IMO the big challenge for the industry is road infrastructure. Not supply chains, not getting bikes etc. If riding in public scares the crap out of 90% of the population you won't sell more ebikes.
This is what the car manufacturers realized. They managed to get entire city blocks torn down to make room for cars. Meanwhile in my city, they're still struggling to finish a 1/4 mile section of a bike path that was proposed 20 years ago.
Chris, your view on the industry is highly appreciated. In my opinion one thing is missing: having better entry level bikes. Pricing gone through the roof and is about to come back after the hype. I really hope that we are finally getting some good quality, affordable bikes. I‘m thinking about the 2000€ / 2000$ price point. What do you think?
The bike industry is still out of touch with what consumers want. As long as tech bros and dentists are willing to pay $10,000+ for a carbon fiber racing machine, they're not going to be lowering their prices anytime soon. It's sad though because they're really missing out on a growing demographic that wants affordable transportation. The European bike brands get it. I wouldn't be surprised if I see foreign companies bring their products here to fill this market!
IDK where you live, but here in the US there are a ton of great options under $2k. Tenways, ADO, Velotric, Aventon, RadPower... I could list a dozen more companies selling quality ebikes at that price point. What features in particular do you feel are lacking?
While I loved my Bosch mid-drive, I did switch to a mid with a throttle for my second ebike (an Evelo). I think you should consider selling them. For me, it was an accessibility thing--my knee simply could not take pedalling from stop anymore. I got an ebike in the first place after an accident on my conventional bike and the cartilage had continued to wear and cause pain. I'm usually fine in low torque situations but I was at the point where I couldn't get home mid-ride even on the highest levels of assist on my Bosch anymore. A lot of people are not coming to ebikes from conventional bikes (the last time they rode was a child), so they don't see the appeal of a smoother ride of a mid-drive being worth the cost. They just want to get from point A to point B quickly and safely. Throttle ebikes used to all just be junk, but that's not the case anymore (though many still are...), so I get why big ebike companies are offering products in this lower price range. And for cargo oriented bikes, getting started when fully loaded on motor assist is easier for folks with bad knees. Obviously its worse for the motor but it's cheaper in the US to replace a motor than a knee... ;)
I'd like to see EN15194 be added to the list of acceptable certifications, I'd also like to see a focus on UL2271 or a successor for batteries, and we need to figure out a way to certify battery remanufacturing, otherwise we are going to have a massive e-waste problem. And a charging standard for ebikes, so that charging stations can really take off
EN15194 is an EU standard, that is quite similar to what has been developed by UL. It is not however recognized in the US. Our regulations which are presented by the CPSC are different in terms of motor size, maximum speed allowed through assist, and what equipment that bike must have attached. The EN standard is an actual law.
@@rayverhelst yes, however, given it encompasses the same things, and a bit beyond, and is just as rigorous a standard as UL2849, it should be sufficient to be sold in the US. Anytime we can save manufacturers cost without compromise to safety by cutting what are essentially duplicate regulations, we should.
@@StephanieDaugherty Unfortunately, as an EU standard it will never be adopted here in North America. The regulations supported by EN15194 are different in terms of the power of the motor, equipment specifications (on the bike as a whole), and allowed assist speed. North America allows more powerful motors, higher speed limits, and whether we like it or not, throttles that bypass the exclusive use of pedal activation (class 2). Also, the EN15194 is an actual legal piece of legislation for the majority of Europe and comes with penalties if caught not meeting the regulations. Our CPSC suggestions are just that, a "suggested" standard. It is up to the individual states (and sometimes cities). This is where we get the three classes that have been established by a combination of the California Bicycle Coalition and the eBike committee within the People For Bikes organization. These classes have been adopted by more than 30 states with more on the way. They have created a legal framework, with some penalties but are still working on the enforcement part.
Here in Victoira, BC we are seeing the uptick in cargo bikes being sold continue - and high end bikes like the Packster, Load, Transporter, and Larry vs Harry. I am noticing more cargo bikes in the Vancouver area than I have previously, too. Rebates in my Province were a joke. If you wanted an e-car you got a flat $5000.00 regardless of income. For e-bikes it was scaled according to income and scaled in a way that was useless for may lower income people and near-pointless for people over certain income.
6:59 So grateful for your voice on these topics. I am a massive advocate for a term I call library welfare, or the use of libraries as institutions that provide patrons with social welfare. Libraries are 86% funded by local government. If we can get libraries to support e-bike programs, we have the power to revolutionize mobility and freedom for all!
Regarding ebike throttles: I commute to work on my ebike. And I've had work days when doing much peddling afterwards was a big ask. Either I was tired or sore, or my clothes got sticky from sweat, etc. Without the throttle to get me home on those days, I'd have given up on bike commuting. For me, it's that simple.
Yes! One time down a 5 mile dirt road into a 25MPH headwind, was enough to make me bless the throttle _and_ the extra row of parallel cells to sustain it
Out of curiosity, did you ever own a pedal assist ebike? I eventually switched to an ebike with a throttle because of knee pain (even moving the knee with minimal effort became too much), but even riding uphill (7-8% grades for part) on the way home in the highest levels of assist never left me sweaty if I didn't want it to. I'd also ride home on it when sick (ah, pre-pandemic expectations...) or after a 14 hour day of being mostly on my feet. I'm 100% behind throttle ebikes for an accessibility and safety tool, but I think you're far over estimating the level of work you need to put in to actually pedal a pedal assist bike that's properly geared in the highest level of assist.
@@emma70707 Most ebikes with throttles also have peddle assist. So yes, I have a PA ebike. And I do peddle on good days. Also, please don't make assumptions about me. It feels unpleasant when a stranger is seemingly putting words in my mouth.
Getting to throttle into work and avoid having to somehow shower in the bathroom sink and figure out a way to store and dry sweat drenched clothes while still getting the workout option for the way home is game changing and makes the prospect of bike commuting so much more accessible.
My experience with a throttle. I have a throttle equipped radwagon4 while my wife has a non throttle Tern HSD. Riding between the two bikes, the biggest difference that's hard to adjust for is getting going from a stop, especially with a load. It's not enough where I would veto a bike purchase due to lack of throttle, but I can see why it might be for some. Good info, thank you for sharing.
Also, for smoothly getting over a high spot, where otherwise any less than flawless rider might experience an ever-dangerous pedal strike! Also, on slick mud / rutted ice / gravelly pavement, in places where the front &\or rear wheel persistently steps out of line, a throttle allows a rider to maintain a slow-but-steady forward power while keeping one's footing braced for maximum balance ecovery. (In the slickest places where even walking is almost impossible, hanging one leg out like an outrigger ski & feathering the throttle, can carry a prudent rider through where either feet or pedals alone simply fail!) That third point isn't relevant to tadpole trikes (whether upright cargo style or recumbent emtb style), but your point about uphill starts & my first point about pedal strikes, are each enough reason alone, to consider throttles a boon to safety; especially considering that pedal assist _is faster_ than throttle alone, anyway!
The other place I've found the throttle useful is carrying speed through corners. I find that my e-bike has so much rolling resistance, that I need to feather the throttle a bit so it can smoothly keep it's momentum in a corner.
@@lihtan Hmm, that sounds unusual; with modern low-pressure tires, even fat tires 5 inches wide should roll with little resistance. I mean certainly more resistance than a 3" or 2" tire, but it also shouldn't feel like a slog. Our ebike weighs _80 pounds,_ but it's still no big deal to ride it around flat land with the motor off. I have noticed that a steeply inclined chainline imparts a _lot_ of drag, but that wouldn't affect coasting... With low pressure tires, just a few pounds more *_or less_* can dramatically reduce rolling resistance. Sometimes I add air on a cold day, or let air out when riding on hot pavement; literally just 5 PSI more or less than ideal, feels like twice the effort. Aside from over-tightening when mounting the wheel on the bike(?), I'd say tire pressure & tread pattern would be the prime suspects, in tracking down excess rolling resistance.
@@prophetzarquon I do most of my riding on sub-30 pound gravel bike with narrow 38c tires. The e-bike is triple the weight, and feels like a lumbering beast in comparison. I have noticed that I get more steering flop if the tire pressure gets low on the e-bike. I usually ride it during winter, so there's a good chance the tires need more air.
@@lihtan Yeah, that tire flop feeling is _awful_ when cornering! I agree that the heavier bike feels like a lumbering beast, for sure. I even have to commit a bit earlier & carve more sharply. The first time out (before calibrating the pedal torque sensor's baseline) I likened it to trying to ride atop a bulldozer. I went to pivot at an intersection & accidentally sent the bike up the landscaping boulders onto the top of a 4ft tall relay box! I stepped off the back & let it wheelie to a stop, but good lord it was like reining in a bull. Now I call it Matsukaze ('wind in the pines'), after the huge black horse that could only be ridden by one tall samurai of legend. (There's also a terribly sad play by that name, but that's another topic entirely.) Do you use offroad tread? I switched my manual bike to a tread with a pretty continuous centerline, & that helped rolling resistance enormously. I wouldn't go so far as slicks or "road tires", but I have been surprised _how much_ difference any slight change to the tires makes. I am intrigued by the new tinier portable compressors: Throwing away CO2 cartridges sucks, but so has every portable pump I've had since the '90s!
Always love it when you create these videos! Totally helps to see which ways the industry is heading, which is extremely helpful for myself (being a product designer!!), but it also shows me the kinds of legislation and ambassadorship that is currently being implemented etc.
In a fast changing bike development we hope to see improved and less costly hub and mid motors and lighter bikes. For older people like myself I would like to see improved ergonomically designed eBikes which emphasize seating comfort, suspension and cruiser type handles which does not cause as much arm and neck strain as straight handles. Because there are so many mfrs in China I would hope to see more quality control , meaning that U.S companies should periodically send reps to visit Chinese factories to assure QC. Fit and finish (especially welded joints) can be a sore point visually.
Great review, but no more ebikes for me until they better address the theft issue. Apple mostly did it with their iphone by bricking it if lost or stolen. If you could brick your motor and electronics with a phone app, that would go a long way to discourage casual theft of opportunity. I know you have mentioned this on a previous video.
Bosch sort of does this with their new controller system and the Flow app. You can remove the display and without it, the motor won’t work. You can still pedal the bike tho. An alarm/gps solution is also available in some countries, on subscription basis. (Really dont like subscription based services. It’s a menace).
These electronic locks, like what Apple uses, are actually a huge barrier to resale and reusability. It's a balance. I don't want my bike stolen either but I'd much rather cities put in adequate infrastructure and created cultures where everyone had bikes and income inequality was lower to property crime was down.
Anti-theft systems could also be added after purchase, the same way premium car alarms work. If you're good with electronics, it's not hard to build a security system that does everything you want.
Thanks for the great content. It's very good to have someone do a yearly update on all-things happening in this fast changing market.. Cheers from Australia..
Here in the city where I live (NE Ohio) it is getting challenging to find a bike shop. There used to be four or five bike shops in town but now we are down to two and one of those two is owned by an older gentleman who wants to retire. So that would leave a midsize metropolitan area with only one bike shop and that bike shop only does bike stuff part time since they are primarily an outdoor equipment place (kayaks and camping) so they are not really that focused on selling or servicing bikes. None of these bike shops do anything or very little with ebikes.
I wonder if you can talk to some of the local high schools to see if there's a student who's interested in working with the older gentleman as an apprentice. It's really important that regions don't lose to the skilled trades.
@@lihtan Unfortunately the degree of what I would call general knowledge about even the simple concept of what an e-bike is and how it works is sadly lacking in this area of the country. Earlier today I was talking to someone who I would consider to be smart and technically knowledgeable but I had to spend 10 - 12 minutes explaining how an e-bike with it's pedal assist is NOT an electric motorcycle. I.E. you HAVE to pedal to get any assistance from the electric motor. He looked at me while I was explaining this like I was crazy. This is the common level of knowledge about e-bikes in this area of the country. Basically people have no clue.
Hey Chris. Shane from Bicycles NYC. We met at Electric Bike Expo. Some of what you are talking about we are also seeing and thank you for sharing this info, even though I am in the industry as well, I learned a lot from your video, so thank you very much for your honesty and transparency. Keep up the good work !!!!
9:18 Regarding electric automobile rebates VS ebike rebates: rebates on ebikes with final assembly in the US sounds like an easy bipartisan win. 👍👍🤝🙌 It _could_ also be a boon for bike _shops,_ which in my opinion is also a win for riders. 🛠🚴🏁
Agree, but similar to the automobile rebates, I think it would need to be dependent on % of components (including battery) that are US sourced, which would probably limit applicability at first, but after a few years of updates to the supply chain, be a boon for ebiking and good for the economy. The issue with just requiring assembly in the us is what constitutes ‘assembly’? Could today’s packaged e-bike shipped to the home that requires minimal assembly be considered ‘assembled in the U.S.’ due to that home assembly step?
@@davidcarrico3385 To be clear, I would prefer a rebate such as you describe, but if that were asserted to be too restrictive, I would even be OK with a federal rebate requiring nothing more than the final assembly (as in, the steps a customer buying a prebuilt boxed bike would otherwise do) performed domestically by a registered entity, mostly for liability\"warranty" reasons: Without a rebate requiring that final assembly be done prior to sale, a lot of people ill-equipped to do that assembly, end up trying to, in order to save a sometimes significant amount of money; whereas a rebate requiring final assembly by some registered entity establishes a much clearer line of liability should any of the most common assembly issues arise (under\over-tightened, wrong/no spacer, parts straight-up-missing, etc). True, Walmart would be selling chinese bikes with a rebate, but I'd prefer _even that_ over boxed bikes which can trivially avoid many otherwise common warranty claims, being the best price point for entry-level ebike riders. Essentially, I would grudgingly approve of any ebike rebate that adds monetary incentive to buy from a US retailer in one's area. _Right now,_ hastily rebadged "white label" chinese ebikes sold thru local retailers are already qualifying for state rebates (which lack such sourcing restrictions). I would prefer that new riders get a federal rebate which fails to improve on that but is still a rebate, versus no federal rebate. Even better _would_ be a rebate that only applies if the battery & other vital components are sourced domestically. That would be awesome, & I think it would pass the moment they got around to voting on it. I would _really_ like to see a federal rebate that also requires a real warranty _with_ right to repair. That would exclude most of the wall-art ebikes from the rebate anyway.
We need more American made bikes/ebikes. Though I love a lot of the EU bikes because they are well known brands and their quality are top notch. We need more bikes that would boom American jobs which was the point of having these rebates is to promote American enocomy jobs.
Winter eBike clothing would be good. With the speed I ride, there is too much wind and I never warm up. I would like something warm, but not too bulky and waterproof for the lower legs.
I'm a big fan of fleece lined pants (black/colored jeans or corduroy pants, depending on what you can wear to work, from LL Bean) along with full zip rain pants. I think mine are from Marmot? If you're pedaling, that should keep your lower body toasty but you shouldn't need to change at work, just a quick unzip of the wind/waterproof layer. Alternatively, I do also wear normal work pants with Nordic skiing pants (again, full zip because no one has time to awkwardly go to the backroom or to take off shoes) that are wind and water resistant on the fronts on slightly less cold days. Idk what brand they are but I think I got them from Eddie Bauer or REI.
One of the big thinks not talked about is fear of theft of bikes. Many people do not invest into a decent bike for daily living is because of ease of theft. In response, I have a napkin design of a bike parking garage that is very theft resistant. If there are any business types here wanting to develop something worldwide, give me a ring.
Loving having bought a couple e assist Gazelles with belt drive and in hub gears and other strong commuter details like fenders and lights. Here in Minneapolis people biking is going strong and plenty of folks seem interested in getting an e-bike.
Bit of a shift, but I am becoming more interested in ebikes for kids. Not little kids, but teens using them for transportation. I got my drivers license at sixteen and access to a car. We are a bike transportation family. Should we be planning for an ebike at sixteen? And what is that regulatory situation going to look like?
If they can earn enough for an ebike, I'd let them get the best parts they can afford; I would even chip in to make sure they get excellent brakes, battery, lock, etc. Bikes are more about good components than which brand did the pre-assembly. Make sure they can work on their _bicycle,_ & keep that in good shape, before throwing an ebike at them. In addition, an ebike rider should understand a good deal about how batteries & motors work (hopefully, a teenager can learn even more about that than we can!) & needs to be aware that a more expensive & heavier vehicle is a lot more responsibility & liability. Be advised they may not be able to bring some types of ebike on some buses \ trains. _Lots_ of them require you to remove the battery during transit. Whether sealed or open style, a **full-face helmet** can save a lot more than their pretty face. **A half-shell helmet is half a helmet.** On sedate trails that are mostly dirt & vegetation, away from traffic zones, lighter helmets can prevail, but when crossing amongst automobile traffic &\or riding on asphalt & concrete, the helmet needs to scale to the terrain & velocities involved. Get a fancy ventilated one if necessary, but ***track down a full-face helmet!*** They're worth it. If any of you use iOS, stash an AirTag on the ebike somewhere that's a bit inconvenient to find/remove. Or better yet get an ebike with integrated Apple FindMy UWB tracker. Or _ideally,_ stash an LTE+3G device on the ebike, with a prepaid SIM: the paltry SMS usage required to respond with a location when requested, can last all year on a minimum balance. As a kid in Austin TX & outside towns south of there, & then in & around the Gretna\Terrytown New Orleans area, & finally as a busy student in Denver\metro & Boulder & the "front range", the only way any of my friends & I could see each other, was to swindle a ride from a parent or _to have a bicycle._ With a bicycle, there were parks & friend's houses & arcades & air-conditioned libraries with scifi & magazines, & just about all the freedoms a kid should have. _Without_ a bike, each kid was stranded until someone was so sick of them they'd sit in traffic & burn gas just to drop them off somewhere for a few hours in a week.
@@prophetzarquon I agree completely. I always look at an e-bike as being secondary to a pedal bicycle. My gravel bike gets ridden 90% of the time. I bust out the e-bike on recover days, or during winter the ground is covered in snow.
@@lihtan Yes, bicycle competency is vital, before taking on a moped. Personally, I ride the ebike about half the time: heatwaves, (increasingly frequent) bad air days, snow\ice, & grocery runs, are sure to get me on the ebike. For anything more recreational I'm usually on the manual bike. If a few KWh could be made light enough, I might _someday_ want just one bike, but even then, it still seems essential to know how they work & how to do at least some of the work on them. Like horses, one kinda _needs_ to know a bit about them, before one is ready to own & ride. Otherwise both rider & mount are likely to encounter trouble.
I have an e-bike with a throttle and cadence pedal assist. It is very useful for about a 1 sec hit to start out, especially on a hill. Thanks for your expertise.
I would say the Bike Library concept is really good because it should encourage people to look after the bikes a lot better. Obviously not everyone is careless with standard quick share systems, but it’s about challenging the careless behaviour of that relatively small group that they’re going after, which I like. I’m pretty sure Donkey Republic who operate our local share scheme have an option for longer term rental built in. So it’s not hard to implement into the existing system as an option. Aside from that, I’d say all the ingredients have been there since I bought my e-bike in 2017. The main difference since then has been tidying everything up. For example with fully integrated batteries, more advanced screens, and other things that don’t fundamentally change the experience for urban daily riding, like bigger battery ranges. The ranges were already more than adequate for 99% of people, and motors that were already more than adequate. The prices have gone the wrong way which is obviously disastrous in a cost of living crisis around the world, almost entirely of neoliberal capitalism’s making. We can choose to pay the working class more. We can choose to subsidise e-bikes. We can choose to limit car use in cities or build bike infrastructure, or both. So many things can be done that aren’t being done. The tech has been great for many years. If e-bikes never improve from here, we won’t care. It’s all politics now.
So one ad says the city of Oakland, CA is planning on a eBike library? Sorry but I would not recommend a high crime city to be a first test city for this. And by the way, this idea would make those bike/scooter companies like Lime (?) and such unhappy because it cuts into their business.
We can choose? Who is “we”? “We” are the problem behind the problem already. Come back here when you figure out ALL the things that your employer has to pay and do for a full time employee. “We” have made employees something everyone is trying to avoid. Read the frigging room. Investors are all looking for low employee count investments and it’s not helping people one bit.
@@nunyabidness3075 “We” as in the people of any country can tax the rich to pay for all the things we need. If you’re in America, you should start with your healthcare system. Fund it through general taxation and make it free at the point of use. Like our NHS. Which was the world leading healthcare provider before 2010, when the conservatives came to power, defunded it and privatised parts of it. But the fundamental idea of it works, and will work again once it’s properly funded and fully renationalised.
Really appreciate the work you put into this video. I am starting a new job soon that deal with the bike industry and your macro view of the industry really sums up well what is happening. BTW really like your LOGO. Very clever.
Curious to see more about how bikes solve mobility problems in developing countries such as Africa. An E-bike it seems would be easier to get out of a mud rut than a motorcycle. It seems they'd need an easy-to-fix, simple, and rugged type of e-bike.
I like the UL idea and am supportive of UL and CSA approved battery packs as I live in Canada. We need some method of ensuring battery packs are reasonably safe and UL/CSA approval would do it.
The long-term rental idea is a really good one for consumers, especially with e-bikes. They can try out a bike more than the usual loop around the block. It will also allow consumers to understand and appreciate the different models and cost levels or features they didn't know were important to them. In the end, the consumer will be much happier with whatever they end up buying vs having regret their purchase and feeling stuck with their investment.
I enjoyed this thank you. I live in a city like most that biking is very small, so people here have low tolerance to bikes on the road, so my throttle helps to make the drivers more patience. They see me get though the light fast enough so they don’t miss the green light.
Great video. Thanks for sharing and I hope sales pick up for you. These videos will help. I run two Ebikes including a Bosch and it was great to see your store with 136 link ebike chains after messing with multiple chains last week!
My sis has always been in the fence on buying a bike she always loved the urban arrow we had. I will send her to your shop hopefully she finally buys a bike
Excellent video as you have done in the past. I am on the market to purchase an ebike and would love to see Gazelle or another brand with reliable, well build ebikes, to implement throttle function. I totally agree on the trends you discussed in this video... Thank you!
Yeah, considering that Bosch has US versions of their motor these days anyway, I'd really love to see them implement a throttle. I had to switch to a Dapu mid with throttle when my knee pain became bad enough that I could no longer always pedal home on my Bosch, even on the highest levels of assist. Maybe now that the US market is getting large enough, they'll put in the work to do so. I'd buy it in an instant for my next bike. As much as I like my Evelo and appreciate the 4 year warranty on everything (it's a solid, relatively premium brand with a long history for a DTC company!), the Dapu is just not as buttery smooth as the Bosch, nor is the battery system as well designed.
Short term rental (e-bike/e-cargo) will certainly be a solution for many people in cities: but need lots of docking-infra, long term rental sort of strange concept to me: you still need a place to store and can't imagine it's more economical I hope/think that automatic gearing and gps becoming the standard (maybe integrated into one unit together motor), safety- and speed standards are getting regulated and enforced. Strange that USA so much struggling with the low quality batteries, soo low that a fear for e-bikes arising: hopefully a quick regulation will take that away.
I think full day bike share/rental would be better than renting by minute or hour. Renting by minute or hour makes it more of a utility (where you weigh cost/benefit) and takes focus off it being a leisure device to explore with.
I sold my ebike a Haibike, cost close to $5k, it was a waste of money. The reason for selling it was that I felt it was slow and heavy. My older not an ebike, was much lighter and faster to get up the hills. My next ebike I will build myself, keep the cost down, because most brands are way overpriced with a big margin.
On the throttle issue, it's more about just getting all the features for your money. Not that you necessarily need it or will use it, but not having it is equivalent to throttling down computer/cell phone hardware for reasons only the brand cares about. If a customer pays all this money for a top end electric bike then you would want everything an electric bike can offer (feature wise) since you are paying top dollar for it anyways. Otherwise it just seems like one of those things that is similar to owning a nice care but not having some features because you don't pay a subscription. I know that's not too close of a comparison, but for the consumer to see a bafang mid drive be able to have both features and know it's possible...it's kind of like "what the heck man?"
The overhang of batteries that are seen as unsafe by insurers and therefore transit authorities is the biggest problem now. We need to get to a place where all e-mobility is certified as safe using non-volatile batteries before they'll allow them on transit again and that's a big impediment to wider usage in multimodal transport. New York's policy looks like an attempt at this but whether that's with the intention of allowing them back onto transit once the risk is deemed gone is another question. Either way it will be a long wait now before the fears of battery fires fade enough to allow the full use of e-mobility without the safety concerns.
In the Netherlands now fatbikes are becoming more popular since we have to wear helmets on mopeds of 25km/h, but now children ride the fatbikes like they are mopeds. And usually they go the same speed or even faster than those mopeds. The difference between those bikes and the mpeds is everyone can ride them. So children younger than 16 and without moped license basically use the fatbikes like mopeds. Many have throttles and people don't even have to pedal. It such as shame that such a good idea now feels like a nuisance in the Netherlands and fatbikes now are getting the same stigma like the small mopeds had. Basically because of the behaviour of the drivers
Perhaps in the future it will be standard for buildings to have battery charging lockers. That way the battery problem is isolated physically and power is monitored specifically. Also, if there is a reduction of battery size and even form factor is standardized to a certain degree, than the problem becomes even more moot.
Hey. Good stuff. I like your approach and the directions you want the Industri/community to go. Short term renting sounds very interesting! As a European, with several analogue bikes, it sounds appealing to be able to rent maybe bigger and faster bikes occasionally. Perhaps renting a “summer ebike” would be cool...
Hey Chris, I’ve seen your shop out in Brooklyn and I’m in the market to get a new ebike, my question for you is if you know of any place I can go in order to see the bikes first hand and try them out on a test ride before making the big jump on an upgraded model. Also I’m currently riding a magnum ebike and I was curious to know if you guys do some type of trade in to reduce the cost of a new propel ebike. Thank you!
I was glad that I was able to really try a number of excellent e bikes at Propel Brooklyn and was even able to take one home to Connecticut to try and return before settling on the Reise Mueller novo 3 . I love the bike, use it constantly w/ daily 32 mile commute - belt drive . It is smooth quick with fabulous lights for night riding through back woods roads. I rarely use my car . I love the bike and the persistent service and sound advice at Propel. Great bike and a great bicycle store- they are committed to rigorous safety . As a busy OB/GYN I appreciate these qualities.
@@julieflagg9171 sounds awesome! I have yet to ride a reise and mueller bike but I’ve heard many good things about them and that’s why I’m really interested in trying some of them out. Glad to hear you’re putting miles on yours!
I'm a big fan of ebikes, but throttles have gotta go. If it has a throttle it's an electric motorcycle that resembles a bicycle. The folks out on the trails and streets giving ebikes a bad name are almost nearly always on some sort of over powered throttle controlled bike.
Great video, sorry I keep commenting as I watch lol. I agree w/ the concern about theft. Here in SF, no way would I park my e-bike anywhere outside. It would be instantly gone.
I would like to see a video about how people in the US pay/fiance the purchase of a new bicycle. The cost of a decent bike is still high. We have a cycle to work scheme and a few 0% deals in the UK. Doesn't have to be a long video. Thanks. Keep up the fantastic content on your channel. Love watching. 👍🏻👍🏻
I appreciate your insight & overview of industry trends. I TRIED to buy Bosch drive bikes during the pandemic only to find the ones we wanted unavailable. I turned elsewhere to get other products. Now I am a happy owner of 2 Non UL eBikes for the past 2 years. The recharge safety is of interest to me and I wonder if this will present opportunities for battery and charger manufacturers to provide UL certified components that retro fit previously unregistered components?
I still haven't bought an ebike, after numerous near temptations. But the issue of battery supply chain ethics around lithion ion specifically is stopping me. However, I still love watching Chris's videos. His team does some of the best out there.
Nice update - new subscriber here. Why haven’t we seen the manufacturers emphasis security on their bikes? We have a Benno Boost and looking into a bucket next, both “expensive”. Neither seem to offer a reasonable bike alarm or tracking, in addition to a solid aftermarket lock. Will new generations make this security a default?
In some European cities bikes are fitted with "cafe" locks. Going one step further, maybe bikes can have electronic theft alarms that give out a large 120 dB alarm.
Alarms are a bad idea. If you look at the research on car alarms, it's quite clear that they don't actually dissuade people from stealing them. The tools thieves use to steal bikes, if you're using a serious lock, are going to be equally loud, anyway, and that clearly doesn't draw enough attention to prevent the theft so why would you think an alarm would? In the end, you're just adding to noise pollution in your area when someone wants to use the same rack your bike is on the vast majority of the time your alarm is triggered. This leads to them being ignored, and therefore why they likely don't work (see again, car alarms, which people in cities automatically assume someone set off by accident). Loud noises also are not harmless. There's an increasing amount of research that ambient sound levels increase stress and actual violent crimes in the area. So I don't think we should be adding to that by choosing ineffective "protections" that mostly serve to annoy others attempting to share the bike rack with us.
We all want BETTER BATTERIES! As in SOLID STATE BATTERIES soon to be available in autos and pickup trucks and likely 18 wheelers. So why not for e-bikes? Lighter, safer, faster charging, longer range.
Even as an intermediate bicycle rider, I've noticed that an e-bike requires a few new skills to learn to ride them safely, and deal with the intricacies of the power system. The education should also include basic maintenance and how to do safety checks.
Teasing VElove!!!!!??? Should I be reading into this? That aside, you are really hitting all the needs for the consumer and the industry. There has to be a way to prevent bike theft and if possible, protect the costly investment from the elements while parked. I really think the community lending/library concept would introduce that there ARE other modes of transportation that a viable for business and personal transport. Access for all would be a huge cultural shift and advocacy for bicycle/pedestrian, and LIVABLE cities. I think there needs to be a shift in commercial use with a big push by citizens and city governments towards last mile delivery. Thanks for being a leader Chris. It inspires hope.
I have a drive shaft bike and all the stuff people saying what is wrong with drive shafts and I have not experienced any of it. it is actually quieter than a belt or chain. There is a problem here in Oregon e-bikes don't obey the speed limit on bike paths and it is becoming dangerous.
Thank you for this very informative video, Chris. If I'm able to buy myself a retirement gift next year, it'll likely be a Gazelle Ultimate C380+ mid-step for touring. Hope to see you then at your Long Beach store.
KTM is very committed to the bicycle business. They bought Pexco a few years ago and Felt last year. Their suspension company WP is now making MTB suspension. They are co building a carbon fiber plant in Bulgaria with Maxcon. Ironically KTM motorcycles cannot sell bicycles under the KTM name as the companies were spilt during a bankruptcy in the 90's. The are selling in the US as Gas Gas and Husqvarna.
I use LiFePo4 batteries (no fires) and regenerating motor. It is awesome… about 30% heavier battery than Li-ion but can take a much heavier charge rate (= discharge rate) which makes regen practical, as well as much wider temperature range.
@@Propelbikeslithium iron phosphate is MUCH safer than lithium ion. It does not have the risk of runaway reactions that lithium ion has. I understand the reticence to say ‘no fires’ but like the original poster, I have never heard of a fire with lithium iron phosphate that was due to the chemistry.
Thanks for another great report. If you had a store anywhere near Toronto, I would be down there lickety-split! In regards to batteries, I was under the assumption that this was mainly a concern for cheaper brand bikes. Have there been any issues with batteries from the big companies like Giant, Specialized, R&M, Etc?
I'd like to see legislated indoor apartment bicycle parking lockers, plus having a battery locker outside or in a fire safe room and safe from fire is a good option but even better would be better chemistries that are less of a bomb and safer to charge and use. PS: I am seeking advice on Ebike conversions, I have a Catrike Expedition and being told not to use a midrive and that a 2000w rear wheel is the only viable option. I only want assist when I need it, I can exceed 35kph on level ground myself but then there are hills! My wishes are 350 to 500 watts either on a midrive or a DD rear wheel drive? PPS: larger cargo bikes, I have a dream, a dream to be able to replace my pickup truck, some to all the time to carry a 1000lb John Deere propane powered walk behind mower, plus battery hand tools on a 4x6' deck, are there options (licenced (Battery rickshaw) or licence free)
Aloha Chris, Interesting video like so many others in the past. I'm the tadpole trike guy. I saw a traditional but smarter electric trike from BMW. The Cube. Gossip has it at $8,000, Yikes! How did BMW steal my tilting rider concept? I've become somewhat smitten with the Formula Armadillo but it has the $8,000 problem as well. Cheers,
@@dennisluz6453 Dennis, Dennis, Dennis! I want go shopping and visiting without using a car. I'm 80 and have quit bicycles. I do agree that an old truck is tempting. But I'm tired of supporting the petroleum industry.
Hase brand delta trikes for elderly getting on/off. Tallest seat Lepus model owned here with E-assist, 2WD, and Rohloff gearbox. Most suspension/comfort under rider's torso. @@unclegeorge7845
I don’t even think about mile four yet because you know when big insurance companies get involved everything slows down to a snails pace and they’re creating problems that don’t exist nor will they exist and it doesn’t make any sense to me that you know insurance companies would work against the businesses and all
Banning Ebikes from apartments is a violation of the ADA just to start. Not all people can be marathon cyclists, and many of us could not commute 4 seasons without our Ebikes. Also, rewarding electric car owners but harming ebike owners is just explicit car industry bias.
Federal govt has begun a program of encouraging eBike purchase with coupons based on one's income level. Calif has a pilot program for a few cities and there is a website with info.
Great video- cheaply produced knockoff brands supply needed affordable entry price level products but with no safety regulation/enforcement that product can become a flood of products that breakdown quickly OR are dangerous - what would be interesting would be transparency where the company that is UL certified shared the cost of certification that they then pass on to consumers (per bike)?
Really enjoy your videos , well thought out. I ride a Stromer ST2 with belt drive and love it but one of the major issues is cost. I think if it were possible to bring down the cost of belt drive bikes with pinion gears more people would find out what a pleasure it is to bike. I’m not a fan of throttle ebikes if you want that get an electric motorcycle ….
Let's put it this way : as bike development advance why can't we have BOTH throttle and pedal in mid motor bikes? You then have a choice to select which to ride. And I think Evelo bikes (or is it Priority bikes) that offer that feature in one model. Best of both worlds.
I love my Evelo mid-drive with a throttle. I used to be a pedal assist snob, too, until my injury from an old bike accident (which is why I got an ebike in the first place) got to be too painful and I started not to be able to make it home from rides even on the highest levels of assist. The throttle allows me to be able to get out and get exercise by off-loading the pain-inducing parts of the ride (starting) fully to the motor and still be able to be independent on the really bad pain days where I might need to throttle most of the ride. It is critical that we "right size" our transportation as we try to become greener as a society. It would be utterly stupid to buy a 500 lb motorcycle with excess Li-ion batteries, have to carry motorcycle insurance, and have to pay for parking when I just want to go ~20 mph, get exercise when I can, and be able to park by the door (because of the injury, walking excessively is difficult too on bad days). A 65 lb ebike more than meets my needs, even if you weirdly want to insist it's a motorcycle despite it having a 500 W (i.e., 2/3 hp) motor, which wouldn't even qualify it as a moped. Maybe take a look at why you think you need to gatekeep such things? I'm sensing some abelism here...
Here in England we have cycle to work schemes, that you get a big discount and payments are taken from your wages, so my ebike and bits came to £1200 but I payed around £800. In monthly instalments .Also social Enterprise or Community Interest Company will rent you a bike for next to nothing and also fix your bike up for a small cost or no cost if your really struggling. ❤✌🏼🙏🏼
Any chance you could create or recommend a video or article on the critical mass theory? Our city just proudly finished a controversial bike lane that’s going unused. They didn’t do their homework on the likely number of users or they would have spent the money in a different neighborhood. We need more projects that get big ridership which I think spreads the use of bikes an e-bikes.
I have my e-bike I use for daily moves and all that, really wish I could rent some high capacity cargo load bikes for a couple hours at a reasonable price
I Really enjoyed the content. I always learn from your posts and find them very interesting and informative. I was working for an NYC e-bike retailer and we had to close due to the legislature, while I am sad to have lost my job as I love the e-bike industry, I agree with the view that safety is paramount and hope to see higher standards across the board. Cheers Chris
Chris - please don't be shy about taking about Propel as the sponsor of these wonderful videos. You put so much time in to them and they are really helpful. We want you to succeed!! Peace, love and bicycles from Rhode Island
Very true.. no shame with the quality content he produces, he deserves as many plugs as he desires :).
I really hope belt drive and internal gear hubs become standard in the sub $4k (ideally sub $3k) market, I think beyond that it’s dismissing returns. IMO e-bikes should be more than commuters but full on car replacement, so comfortable frames, enough capacity for two people, low maintenance, and practical tech are the most important aspects to me.
3k is overpriced. For that you can buy an electric moped or motorcycle.
Agree that eBikes should cost far less for SOME models. The whole idea is transportation at a reasonable cost for MOST people. Those who want to spend $4k are free to do so.YMMV
@@r.d.9399But I can't ride mopeds/motorcycles on bike lanes or everywhere else than a street, which is faster in cities if you can. If you live somewhwre where this is no problem, sure. (And the running costs are way cheaper too for an e-bike)
I don't live in a city. For me, a practical car replacement ebike will require much bigger batteries than most ebikes on the market atm. If I can make a round trip to the next town over without bringing a charger and loitering, then I've got a practical car replacement.
And yes, I know there are a few bikes that do that. But they're either well out of my price range, or are sporting a 1000w motor which isn't legal where I live.
You really don't need a belt: At high loads, chain is still less drag.
Likewise, there's scarcely one hub shifter rated for the peak torque of a cargo ebike motor, & that's before adding _any_ pedal force. A 250lb person standing on the front pedal exceeds the rating of every one of them.
You are always so positive and a loud leader in the e-bike movement. I hate that you are having to fight through some of this muck but very much appreciate what you do! I am planning on upgrading my bike next year and 100% plan on purchasing from Propel as I want to support you and your really great work. Thank you for fighting and educating and championing this movement.
A great update! As the owner of a Riese & Muller and Canondale e-bike I applaud the UL certification movement as a needed safety regulation. My next purchase will be a belt-drive, derailer free bike that’s lighter than my six-year old 28 mph Tinker HS.
Thanks Kevin! That Tinker is a rare breed
Come on US, start building more ebikes domestically!
I agree! I would also like to see hub kits made here as well.
Tesla Bike?
I have a bike with a throttle and think of it as a safety device. I pedal 99% of the time. When I'm sitting at a busy intersection waiting to cross, from a dead stop, I pedal and hit the throttle to cross the intersection as quickly as possible. I would not want to give that up.
Same here. Also use throttle assist when climbing hills. Easier than changing assist level for me.
Similar here. Was part of my reasoning of getting an ebike (along with the hot summers here, not having to pedal as hard to move really does make an difference, since its my main form of transport rn) I can be a bit trigger happy with the throttle but mine hauls at 22-24 mph, dependent on battery percentage, I use it mostly for intersections or to pick up initial speed when I'm on the roads. Before the ebike I would be stuck at intersections for nearly 10 mins because I could not give my manual bike enough of a push to zip across in time during busier traffic, nearly made me late for work in some cases!
Same for me as well. I use it to get going in intersections. Its great for that. It makes no sense that these big manufacturers are building ebikes with throttles primarily for mopeds with pedals.
@@schmitty8225 Agreed. As soon as you see a wide bench-style motorcycle seat instead of a saddle, you know nobody's going to be pedaling far on that!
@@BMA0522 I actually turn down the assist when I'm climbing hills. Hub motors don't like climbing hills. I shift to the lowest gear possible, then use assist 1 so that I'm using as little power as possible, and I'm not at risk of overheating the motor.
I'm in Delaware, and the state has done a nice job, in my area, of adding bike lanes on the side of larger roads...Just the painted stripe close to the shoulder, nothing like in Europe where there are dedicated separate bike paths...Anyway, the thing that bugs me is that the restaurants, stores, or strip malls I would visit, there's no parking/bike racks even! I'd worry about my 30 yr old regular bike being stolen, let alone an expensive eBike! Ugh
I'm not sure I'd necessarily consider that a "nice job"--the adage is that paint is not infrastructure. Better than a sharrow but only just... Hopefully you can convince them that protected lanes are worthwhile soon.
And, yeah, a place to lock up is essential. I'd honestly bring the bike in with you. If businesses don't have bike parking provided, bringing you bike in seems like a reasonable response. If they object, ask them nicely to put in bike parking and suggest the staple variety.
@@emma70707 Thank you, Emma. Yeah, I suppose I was being generous about "nice job" vs. (barely) better than nothing. 😂 I also wondered about breathing in the fumes from car/truck exhaust. The second part about bringing the bike inside is what had me considering folding bikes too. That and the narrow little townhouse I have (no garage).
@@ph5915 Yeah, if ever someone was looked at askance for wearing a mask, the looks get even more nonplussed when a rider _removes_ their mask to go inside because they only wear it while riding to reduce smog particulate inhalation!
My perception of Delaware bike infrastructure is "we painted a little bike lane stencil on the shoulder of this dangerous highway". There are a lot of bike lanes, but they're just paint with no real infrastructure change.
@@TheRealE.B. I agree 100%
Also worth mentioning: when (if) congestion pricing takes effect in nyc that could def lead to more cargo bikes for small businesses and generally help make biking a more attractive option for a lot of people
I don't understand why people are upset regarding UL certification for batteries. I get more regulations and more gov't are a pain in the butt but it is obvious the industry and consumers can't regulate itself given the surge of battery fires and explosions with e-bikes. Set a minimum safety standard and filter out the junk being imported from countries where quality control is not in their vocab.
I agree. The foreign junk is dangerous
@@r.d.9399 Unfortunately, foreigners do not have a monopoly on making junk bikes.
The industry brought this upon itself. Even domestic companies that were reselling foreign products should have been taking a stand against dodgy vendors selling dangerous products. It's not just poorly assembled packs that are the problems. There's also Chinese companies making fake batteries that have hardly any lithium in them. They test fine for the first week, but quickly lose their ability to hold a charge. When I worked as a bike tech, I've had foreign vendors offer me both options when it came to pack assembly. This also points to a bigger problem of the non-existent QC for most of the cheaper Chinese e-bikes. I used to catch all kinds of dangerous defects on these bikes that had nothing to do with the electrical system.
Depends on whether the US wants a protectionist society, or one that allows a full-fledged free for all with no regard to how actions negatively affect others. I agree and applaud the battery standards. I also think that battery tech should get more attention. I know several contractors that have recharged lithium batteries in their power tools for as long as 10-15 years, and our phones and tablets are often rated for as many as 500 charge cycles. These are lithium batteries. A battery life on an e-bike should be way longer than 3-5 years, that is stupid and ridiculous. I can understand it’s a different situation for daily commuters who might have to charge a bike every day, but for the average user who bikes for fun 1 or two times a week, we should get 12-15 years from a battery. If not, there is no sustainability there, sorry.
Problems I face in Rural Canada with regards to Ebikes:
1) No service/repair shops in my area. Huge problem. I have to order exclusively online (mostly from the US) to get the ebike I want.
2) Poor RANGE. All Almost all EBike manufacturers are concentrating on top speed.
3) Very expensive for what they offer.
Chris’ videos got me to set the bar higher when I was researching what I wanted in an ebike (with supply chain issues and backorder issues also considered). I went from researching hub drive to mid drives and stumbled across Propel video reviews. Then on a ebike rental experience I got to ride Specialized Comos and thought I wanted the Turbo Vado 5.0 IGH as my ultimate decision…. Only to find no availability. During my rental experience I saw some Gazelle bikes on the showroom floor and remembered Chris’ reviews. I was pre-educated and bought a ‘23 Ultimate c380 step through off the floor. No wait time (except my years of procrastination and my 6-pack salary and champagne tastes).
Most North American cities still suck in bike-friendly infrastructures, let’s be honest. This is the top one barrier to all bike growth, including e-bikes.
Amen
The ebike bans is a real concern in the city and I don't like to see it. I have friends who had to get rid of their ebikes because of this.
I believe there are 2 ways to get these turned around and those are 1; get to a point where you have enough people speak up about it or 2; make a case from an accessibility standpoint.
These bans through right now can seriously stifle the current growth..
What city/community has banned ebikes?
@@dennisluz6453 Quite a few private landlords in NYC have
Agreed, any time I have raised the subject of accessibility regarding where people bicycle & now ebike, I've heard nothing but support. Walking more than two blocks would leave me aching so I ride everywhere. I sometimes felt less than stoked in >100°F heat with poor air quality after a hip injury, so I eagerly got an excellent ebike with enough power to replace my leg effort if necessary. Only concern is not wanting to park it; same as my nice manual bike. So, sometimes it comes inside with me! No complaints, lots of compliments & eager questions from all kinds of people.
@@prophetzarquon, same. I have an old injury from a conventional bike accident and an ebike allows me to commute independently without pain because I can park by the door. Thankfully my apartment doesn't seem to mind at all--in fact I had an ebike when I moved in 5 years ago so they got used to it before all the fire hubbub.
@@emma70707 Amen to that! Paying to park & then walking a city block or more, started to feel really dumb, after the day I realized I could _coast_ to work & not have to walk until I'm 30ft from the desk!
IMO the big challenge for the industry is road infrastructure. Not supply chains, not getting bikes etc. If riding in public scares the crap out of 90% of the population you won't sell more ebikes.
This is what the car manufacturers realized. They managed to get entire city blocks torn down to make room for cars. Meanwhile in my city, they're still struggling to finish a 1/4 mile section of a bike path that was proposed 20 years ago.
Chris, your view on the industry is highly appreciated.
In my opinion one thing is missing: having better entry level bikes. Pricing gone through the roof and is about to come back after the hype. I really hope that we are finally getting some good quality, affordable bikes. I‘m thinking about the 2000€ / 2000$ price point. What do you think?
The bike industry is still out of touch with what consumers want. As long as tech bros and dentists are willing to pay $10,000+ for a carbon fiber racing machine, they're not going to be lowering their prices anytime soon. It's sad though because they're really missing out on a growing demographic that wants affordable transportation. The European bike brands get it. I wouldn't be surprised if I see foreign companies bring their products here to fill this market!
IDK where you live, but here in the US there are a ton of great options under $2k. Tenways, ADO, Velotric, Aventon, RadPower... I could list a dozen more companies selling quality ebikes at that price point. What features in particular do you feel are lacking?
While I loved my Bosch mid-drive, I did switch to a mid with a throttle for my second ebike (an Evelo). I think you should consider selling them. For me, it was an accessibility thing--my knee simply could not take pedalling from stop anymore. I got an ebike in the first place after an accident on my conventional bike and the cartilage had continued to wear and cause pain. I'm usually fine in low torque situations but I was at the point where I couldn't get home mid-ride even on the highest levels of assist on my Bosch anymore.
A lot of people are not coming to ebikes from conventional bikes (the last time they rode was a child), so they don't see the appeal of a smoother ride of a mid-drive being worth the cost. They just want to get from point A to point B quickly and safely. Throttle ebikes used to all just be junk, but that's not the case anymore (though many still are...), so I get why big ebike companies are offering products in this lower price range. And for cargo oriented bikes, getting started when fully loaded on motor assist is easier for folks with bad knees. Obviously its worse for the motor but it's cheaper in the US to replace a motor than a knee... ;)
I'd like to see EN15194 be added to the list of acceptable certifications, I'd also like to see a focus on UL2271 or a successor for batteries, and we need to figure out a way to certify battery remanufacturing, otherwise we are going to have a massive e-waste problem.
And a charging standard for ebikes, so that charging stations can really take off
Yes yes yes
EN15194 is an EU standard, that is quite similar to what has been developed by UL. It is not however recognized in the US. Our regulations which are presented by the CPSC are different in terms of motor size, maximum speed allowed through assist, and what equipment that bike must have attached. The EN standard is an actual law.
@@rayverhelst yes, however, given it encompasses the same things, and a bit beyond, and is just as rigorous a standard as UL2849, it should be sufficient to be sold in the US. Anytime we can save manufacturers cost without compromise to safety by cutting what are essentially duplicate regulations, we should.
@@StephanieDaugherty Unfortunately, as an EU standard it will never be adopted here in North America. The regulations supported by EN15194 are different in terms of the power of the motor, equipment specifications (on the bike as a whole), and allowed assist speed. North America allows more powerful motors, higher speed limits, and whether we like it or not, throttles that bypass the exclusive use of pedal activation (class 2). Also, the EN15194 is an actual legal piece of legislation for the majority of Europe and comes with penalties if caught not meeting the regulations. Our CPSC suggestions are just that, a "suggested" standard. It is up to the individual states (and sometimes cities). This is where we get the three classes that have been established by a combination of the California Bicycle Coalition and the eBike committee within the People For Bikes organization. These classes have been adopted by more than 30 states with more on the way. They have created a legal framework, with some penalties but are still working on the enforcement part.
Here in Victoira, BC we are seeing the uptick in cargo bikes being sold continue - and high end bikes like the Packster, Load, Transporter, and Larry vs Harry. I am noticing more cargo bikes in the Vancouver area than I have previously, too. Rebates in my Province were a joke. If you wanted an e-car you got a flat $5000.00 regardless of income. For e-bikes it was scaled according to income and scaled in a way that was useless for may lower income people and near-pointless for people over certain income.
6:59 So grateful for your voice on these topics. I am a massive advocate for a term I call library welfare, or the use of libraries as institutions that provide patrons with social welfare. Libraries are 86% funded by local government. If we can get libraries to support e-bike programs, we have the power to revolutionize mobility and freedom for all!
Regarding ebike throttles: I commute to work on my ebike. And I've had work days when doing much peddling afterwards was a big ask. Either I was tired or sore, or my clothes got sticky from sweat, etc. Without the throttle to get me home on those days, I'd have given up on bike commuting. For me, it's that simple.
Yes! One time down a 5 mile dirt road into a 25MPH headwind, was enough to make me bless the throttle _and_ the extra row of parallel cells to sustain it
Great feedback! Thanks for sharing
Out of curiosity, did you ever own a pedal assist ebike? I eventually switched to an ebike with a throttle because of knee pain (even moving the knee with minimal effort became too much), but even riding uphill (7-8% grades for part) on the way home in the highest levels of assist never left me sweaty if I didn't want it to. I'd also ride home on it when sick (ah, pre-pandemic expectations...) or after a 14 hour day of being mostly on my feet.
I'm 100% behind throttle ebikes for an accessibility and safety tool, but I think you're far over estimating the level of work you need to put in to actually pedal a pedal assist bike that's properly geared in the highest level of assist.
@@emma70707 Most ebikes with throttles also have peddle assist. So yes, I have a PA ebike. And I do peddle on good days.
Also, please don't make assumptions about me. It feels unpleasant when a stranger is seemingly putting words in my mouth.
Getting to throttle into work and avoid having to somehow shower in the bathroom sink and figure out a way to store and dry sweat drenched clothes while still getting the workout option for the way home is game changing and makes the prospect of bike commuting so much more accessible.
My experience with a throttle. I have a throttle equipped radwagon4 while my wife has a non throttle Tern HSD. Riding between the two bikes, the biggest difference that's hard to adjust for is getting going from a stop, especially with a load. It's not enough where I would veto a bike purchase due to lack of throttle, but I can see why it might be for some. Good info, thank you for sharing.
Also, for smoothly getting over a high spot, where otherwise any less than flawless rider might experience an ever-dangerous pedal strike!
Also, on slick mud / rutted ice / gravelly pavement, in places where the front &\or rear wheel persistently steps out of line, a throttle allows a rider to maintain a slow-but-steady forward power while keeping one's footing braced for maximum balance
ecovery. (In the slickest places where even walking is almost impossible, hanging one leg out like an outrigger ski & feathering the throttle, can carry a prudent rider through where either feet or pedals alone simply fail!)
That third point isn't relevant to tadpole trikes (whether upright cargo style or recumbent emtb style), but your point about uphill starts & my first point about pedal strikes, are each enough reason alone, to consider throttles a boon to safety; especially considering that pedal assist _is faster_ than throttle alone, anyway!
The other place I've found the throttle useful is carrying speed through corners. I find that my e-bike has so much rolling resistance, that I need to feather the throttle a bit so it can smoothly keep it's momentum in a corner.
@@lihtan Hmm, that sounds unusual; with modern low-pressure tires, even fat tires 5 inches wide should roll with little resistance. I mean certainly more resistance than a 3" or 2" tire, but it also shouldn't feel like a slog.
Our ebike weighs _80 pounds,_ but it's still no big deal to ride it around flat land with the motor off.
I have noticed that a steeply inclined chainline imparts a _lot_ of drag, but that wouldn't affect coasting...
With low pressure tires, just a few pounds more *_or less_* can dramatically reduce rolling resistance. Sometimes I add air on a cold day, or let air out when riding on hot pavement; literally just 5 PSI more or less than ideal, feels like twice the effort.
Aside from over-tightening when mounting the wheel on the bike(?), I'd say tire pressure & tread pattern would be the prime suspects, in tracking down excess rolling resistance.
@@prophetzarquon I do most of my riding on sub-30 pound gravel bike with narrow 38c tires. The e-bike is triple the weight, and feels like a lumbering beast in comparison. I have noticed that I get more steering flop if the tire pressure gets low on the e-bike. I usually ride it during winter, so there's a good chance the tires need more air.
@@lihtan Yeah, that tire flop feeling is _awful_ when cornering! I agree that the heavier bike feels like a lumbering beast, for sure. I even have to commit a bit earlier & carve more sharply.
The first time out (before calibrating the pedal torque sensor's baseline) I likened it to trying to ride atop a bulldozer. I went to pivot at an intersection & accidentally sent the bike up the landscaping boulders onto the top of a 4ft tall relay box! I stepped off the back & let it wheelie to a stop, but good lord it was like reining in a bull.
Now I call it Matsukaze ('wind in the pines'), after the huge black horse that could only be ridden by one tall samurai of legend.
(There's also a terribly sad play by that name, but that's another topic entirely.)
Do you use offroad tread? I switched my manual bike to a tread with a pretty continuous centerline, & that helped rolling resistance enormously. I wouldn't go so far as slicks or "road tires", but I have been surprised _how much_ difference any slight change to the tires makes.
I am intrigued by the new tinier portable compressors: Throwing away CO2 cartridges sucks, but so has every portable pump I've had since the '90s!
Really nice comprehensive video. Well reasoned and considerate. T/Y for making and posting it.
Always love it when you create these videos! Totally helps to see which ways the industry is heading, which is extremely helpful for myself (being a product designer!!), but it also shows me the kinds of legislation and ambassadorship that is currently being implemented etc.
In a fast changing bike development we hope to see improved and less costly hub and mid motors and lighter bikes. For older people like myself I would like to see improved ergonomically designed eBikes which emphasize seating comfort, suspension and cruiser type handles which does not cause as much arm and neck strain as straight handles.
Because there are so many mfrs in China I would hope to see more quality control , meaning that U.S companies should periodically send reps to visit Chinese factories to assure QC. Fit and finish (especially welded joints) can be a sore point visually.
@@dennisluz6453 completely agree! I’ll make a note of this in my future designs!
Great review, but no more ebikes for me until they better address the theft issue. Apple mostly did it with their iphone by bricking it if lost or stolen. If you could brick your motor and electronics with a phone app, that would go a long way to discourage casual theft of opportunity. I know you have mentioned this on a previous video.
Great idea
Elsewhere I chimed in about cafe locks, electronic alarms. Bricking is another option. eBikes are here to stay.
Bosch sort of does this with their new controller system and the Flow app. You can remove the display and without it, the motor won’t work. You can still pedal the bike tho. An alarm/gps solution is also available in some countries, on subscription basis. (Really dont like subscription based services. It’s a menace).
These electronic locks, like what Apple uses, are actually a huge barrier to resale and reusability. It's a balance. I don't want my bike stolen either but I'd much rather cities put in adequate infrastructure and created cultures where everyone had bikes and income inequality was lower to property crime was down.
Anti-theft systems could also be added after purchase, the same way premium car alarms work. If you're good with electronics, it's not hard to build a security system that does everything you want.
Thanks for the great content. It's very good to have someone do a yearly update on all-things happening in this fast changing market.. Cheers from Australia..
Here in the city where I live (NE Ohio) it is getting challenging to find a bike shop. There used to be four or five bike shops in town but now we are down to two and one of those two is owned by an older gentleman who wants to retire. So that would leave a midsize metropolitan area with only one bike shop and that bike shop only does bike stuff part time since they are primarily an outdoor equipment place (kayaks and camping) so they are not really that focused on selling or servicing bikes. None of these bike shops do anything or very little with ebikes.
I wonder if you can talk to some of the local high schools to see if there's a student who's interested in working with the older gentleman as an apprentice. It's really important that regions don't lose to the skilled trades.
That sounds like a great opportunity for an enterprising individual to serve a captive market!
@@lihtan Unfortunately the degree of what I would call general knowledge about even the simple concept of what an e-bike is and how it works is sadly lacking in this area of the country. Earlier today I was talking to someone who I would consider to be smart and technically knowledgeable but I had to spend 10 - 12 minutes explaining how an e-bike with it's pedal assist is NOT an electric motorcycle. I.E. you HAVE to pedal to get any assistance from the electric motor. He looked at me while I was explaining this like I was crazy. This is the common level of knowledge about e-bikes in this area of the country. Basically people have no clue.
Hey Chris. Shane from Bicycles NYC. We met at Electric Bike Expo. Some of what you are talking about we are also seeing and thank you for sharing this info, even though I am in the industry as well, I learned a lot from your video, so thank you very much for your honesty and transparency. Keep up the good work !!!!
You always have the best ebike industry analysis. Thank you for your work!
9:18 Regarding electric automobile rebates VS ebike rebates: rebates on ebikes with final assembly in the US sounds like an easy bipartisan win.
👍👍🤝🙌
It _could_ also be a boon for bike _shops,_ which in my opinion is also a win for riders. 🛠🚴🏁
I agree. I hope it happens.
@@Propelbikes Could you get along with Louis Rossman long enough to team up for some lobbying for it?
Agree, but similar to the automobile rebates, I think it would need to be dependent on % of components (including battery) that are US sourced, which would probably limit applicability at first, but after a few years of updates to the supply chain, be a boon for ebiking and good for the economy. The issue with just requiring assembly in the us is what constitutes ‘assembly’? Could today’s packaged e-bike shipped to the home that requires minimal assembly be considered ‘assembled in the U.S.’ due to that home assembly step?
@@davidcarrico3385 To be clear, I would prefer a rebate such as you describe, but if that were asserted to be too restrictive, I would even be OK with a federal rebate requiring nothing more than the final assembly (as in, the steps a customer buying a prebuilt boxed bike would otherwise do) performed domestically by a registered entity, mostly for liability\"warranty" reasons:
Without a rebate requiring that final assembly be done prior to sale, a lot of people ill-equipped to do that assembly, end up trying to, in order to save a sometimes significant amount of money; whereas a rebate requiring final assembly by some registered entity establishes a much clearer line of liability should any of the most common assembly issues arise (under\over-tightened, wrong/no spacer, parts straight-up-missing, etc).
True, Walmart would be selling chinese bikes with a rebate, but I'd prefer _even that_ over boxed bikes which can trivially avoid many otherwise common warranty claims, being the best price point for entry-level ebike riders.
Essentially, I would grudgingly approve of any ebike rebate that adds monetary incentive to buy from a US retailer in one's area. _Right now,_ hastily rebadged "white label" chinese ebikes sold thru local retailers are already qualifying for state rebates (which lack such sourcing restrictions). I would prefer that new riders get a federal rebate which fails to improve on that but is still a rebate, versus no federal rebate.
Even better _would_ be a rebate that only applies if the battery & other vital components are sourced domestically. That would be awesome, & I think it would pass the moment they got around to voting on it.
I would _really_ like to see a federal rebate that also requires a real warranty _with_ right to repair. That would exclude most of the wall-art ebikes from the rebate anyway.
We need more American made bikes/ebikes. Though I love a lot of the EU bikes because they are well known brands and their quality are top notch. We need more bikes that would boom American jobs which was the point of having these rebates is to promote American enocomy jobs.
I think it's coming
Thanks for the the industry insight. Great informative video!
Glad it was helpful!
Winter eBike clothing would be good. With the speed I ride, there is too much wind and I never warm up. I would like something warm, but not too bulky and waterproof for the lower legs.
You might find suitable clothing in the trail running or the nordic skiing section
I'm a big fan of fleece lined pants (black/colored jeans or corduroy pants, depending on what you can wear to work, from LL Bean) along with full zip rain pants. I think mine are from Marmot? If you're pedaling, that should keep your lower body toasty but you shouldn't need to change at work, just a quick unzip of the wind/waterproof layer.
Alternatively, I do also wear normal work pants with Nordic skiing pants (again, full zip because no one has time to awkwardly go to the backroom or to take off shoes) that are wind and water resistant on the fronts on slightly less cold days. Idk what brand they are but I think I got them from Eddie Bauer or REI.
One of the big thinks not talked about is fear of theft of bikes. Many people do not invest into a decent bike for daily living is because of ease of theft. In response, I have a napkin design of a bike parking garage that is very theft resistant. If there are any business types here wanting to develop something worldwide, give me a ring.
Loving having bought a couple e assist Gazelles with belt drive and in hub gears and other strong commuter details like fenders and lights. Here in Minneapolis people biking is going strong and plenty of folks seem interested in getting an e-bike.
Bit of a shift, but I am becoming more interested in ebikes for kids. Not little kids, but teens using them for transportation. I got my drivers license at sixteen and access to a car. We are a bike transportation family. Should we be planning for an ebike at sixteen? And what is that regulatory situation going to look like?
If they can earn enough for an ebike, I'd let them get the best parts they can afford; I would even chip in to make sure they get excellent brakes, battery, lock, etc. Bikes are more about good components than which brand did the pre-assembly.
Make sure they can work on their _bicycle,_ & keep that in good shape, before throwing an ebike at them. In addition, an ebike rider should understand a good deal about how batteries & motors work (hopefully, a teenager can learn even more about that than we can!) & needs to be aware that a more expensive & heavier vehicle is a lot more responsibility & liability.
Be advised they may not be able to bring some types of ebike on some buses \ trains. _Lots_ of them require you to remove the battery during transit.
Whether sealed or open style, a **full-face helmet** can save a lot more than their pretty face.
**A half-shell helmet is half a helmet.** On sedate trails that are mostly dirt & vegetation, away from traffic zones, lighter helmets can prevail, but when crossing amongst automobile traffic &\or riding on asphalt & concrete, the helmet needs to scale to the terrain & velocities involved. Get a fancy ventilated one if necessary, but ***track down a full-face helmet!*** They're worth it.
If any of you use iOS, stash an AirTag on the ebike somewhere that's a bit inconvenient to find/remove. Or better yet get an ebike with integrated Apple FindMy UWB tracker. Or _ideally,_ stash an LTE+3G device on the ebike, with a prepaid SIM: the paltry SMS usage required to respond with a location when requested, can last all year on a minimum balance.
As a kid in Austin TX & outside towns south of there, & then in & around the Gretna\Terrytown New Orleans area, & finally as a busy student in Denver\metro & Boulder & the "front range", the only way any of my friends & I could see each other, was to swindle a ride from a parent or _to have a bicycle._
With a bicycle, there were parks & friend's houses & arcades & air-conditioned libraries with scifi & magazines, & just about all the freedoms a kid should have. _Without_ a bike, each kid was stranded until someone was so sick of them they'd sit in traffic & burn gas just to drop them off somewhere for a few hours in a week.
@@prophetzarquon I agree completely. I always look at an e-bike as being secondary to a pedal bicycle. My gravel bike gets ridden 90% of the time. I bust out the e-bike on recover days, or during winter the ground is covered in snow.
@@lihtan Yes, bicycle competency is vital, before taking on a moped. Personally, I ride the ebike about half the time: heatwaves, (increasingly frequent) bad air days, snow\ice, & grocery runs, are sure to get me on the ebike. For anything more recreational I'm usually on the manual bike.
If a few KWh could be made light enough, I might _someday_ want just one bike, but even then, it still seems essential to know how they work & how to do at least some of the work on them.
Like horses, one kinda _needs_ to know a bit about them, before one is ready to own & ride. Otherwise both rider & mount are likely to encounter trouble.
I have an e-bike with a throttle and cadence pedal assist. It is very useful for about a 1 sec hit to start out, especially on a hill. Thanks for your expertise.
I would say the Bike Library concept is really good because it should encourage people to look after the bikes a lot better. Obviously not everyone is careless with standard quick share systems, but it’s about challenging the careless behaviour of that relatively small group that they’re going after, which I like. I’m pretty sure Donkey Republic who operate our local share scheme have an option for longer term rental built in. So it’s not hard to implement into the existing system as an option.
Aside from that, I’d say all the ingredients have been there since I bought my e-bike in 2017. The main difference since then has been tidying everything up. For example with fully integrated batteries, more advanced screens, and other things that don’t fundamentally change the experience for urban daily riding, like bigger battery ranges. The ranges were already more than adequate for 99% of people, and motors that were already more than adequate.
The prices have gone the wrong way which is obviously disastrous in a cost of living crisis around the world, almost entirely of neoliberal capitalism’s making. We can choose to pay the working class more. We can choose to subsidise e-bikes. We can choose to limit car use in cities or build bike infrastructure, or both. So many things can be done that aren’t being done. The tech has been great for many years. If e-bikes never improve from here, we won’t care. It’s all politics now.
So one ad says the city of Oakland, CA is planning on a eBike library? Sorry but I would not recommend a high crime city to be a first test city for this. And by the way, this idea would make those bike/scooter companies like Lime (?) and such unhappy because it cuts into their business.
We can choose? Who is “we”? “We” are the problem behind the problem already. Come back here when you figure out ALL the things that your employer has to pay and do for a full time employee. “We” have made employees something everyone is trying to avoid. Read the frigging room. Investors are all looking for low employee count investments and it’s not helping people one bit.
@@nunyabidness3075 “We” as in the people of any country can tax the rich to pay for all the things we need. If you’re in America, you should start with your healthcare system. Fund it through general taxation and make it free at the point of use. Like our NHS. Which was the world leading healthcare provider before 2010, when the conservatives came to power, defunded it and privatised parts of it. But the fundamental idea of it works, and will work again once it’s properly funded and fully renationalised.
Really appreciate the work you put into this video. I am starting a new job soon that deal with the bike industry and your macro view of the industry really sums up well what is happening. BTW really like your LOGO. Very clever.
Curious to see more about how bikes solve mobility problems in developing countries such as Africa. An E-bike it seems would be easier to get out of a mud rut than a motorcycle. It seems they'd need an easy-to-fix, simple, and rugged type of e-bike.
I can imagine a small hand crank winch to be able to be used if the bike gets stuck in mud or something
I like the UL idea and am supportive of UL and CSA approved battery packs as I live in Canada. We need some method of ensuring battery packs are reasonably safe and UL/CSA approval would do it.
The long-term rental idea is a really good one for consumers, especially with e-bikes. They can try out a bike more than the usual loop around the block. It will also allow consumers to understand and appreciate the different models and cost levels or features they didn't know were important to them. In the end, the consumer will be much happier with whatever they end up buying vs having regret their purchase and feeling stuck with their investment.
If Riese and Muller will add a throttle to the ABS model Homage GT, it would be the perfect bike.
I enjoyed this thank you. I live in a city like most that biking is very small, so people here have low tolerance to bikes on the road, so my throttle helps to make the drivers more patience. They see me get though the light fast enough so they don’t miss the green light.
Bike education and road sense.
Great video. Thanks for sharing and I hope sales pick up for you. These videos will help. I run two Ebikes including a Bosch and it was great to see your store with 136 link ebike chains after messing with multiple chains last week!
Really excellent update. I have been a fan of yours since the beginning. Keep it up!
Thanks! Hope you're well!
My sis has always been in the fence on buying a bike she always loved the urban arrow we had. I will send her to your shop hopefully she finally buys a bike
Some great insight into ebike trends. I'm new ebike owner in MA .. Tern HSD 5i. Looking forward to future videos. Thanks
Excellent video as you have done in the past. I am on the market to purchase an ebike and would love to see Gazelle or another brand with reliable, well build ebikes, to implement throttle function. I totally agree on the trends you discussed in this video... Thank you!
Yeah, considering that Bosch has US versions of their motor these days anyway, I'd really love to see them implement a throttle. I had to switch to a Dapu mid with throttle when my knee pain became bad enough that I could no longer always pedal home on my Bosch, even on the highest levels of assist. Maybe now that the US market is getting large enough, they'll put in the work to do so. I'd buy it in an instant for my next bike. As much as I like my Evelo and appreciate the 4 year warranty on everything (it's a solid, relatively premium brand with a long history for a DTC company!), the Dapu is just not as buttery smooth as the Bosch, nor is the battery system as well designed.
Short term rental (e-bike/e-cargo) will certainly be a solution for many people in cities: but need lots of docking-infra, long term rental sort of strange concept to me: you still need a place to store and can't imagine it's more economical
I hope/think that automatic gearing and gps becoming the standard (maybe integrated into one unit together motor), safety- and speed standards are getting regulated and enforced.
Strange that USA so much struggling with the low quality batteries, soo low that a fear for e-bikes arising: hopefully a quick regulation will take that away.
I think full day bike share/rental would be better than renting by minute or hour. Renting by minute or hour makes it more of a utility (where you weigh cost/benefit) and takes focus off it being a leisure device to explore with.
I sold my ebike a Haibike, cost close to $5k, it was a waste of money. The reason for selling it was that I felt it was slow and heavy. My older not an ebike, was much lighter and faster to get up the hills. My next ebike I will build myself, keep the cost down, because most brands are way overpriced with a big margin.
I think regulation of battery parts and safety standards is reasonable.
you the TIFFANY of ebikes above all the rest in a landslide
On the throttle issue, it's more about just getting all the features for your money. Not that you necessarily need it or will use it, but not having it is equivalent to throttling down computer/cell phone hardware for reasons only the brand cares about. If a customer pays all this money for a top end electric bike then you would want everything an electric bike can offer (feature wise) since you are paying top dollar for it anyways. Otherwise it just seems like one of those things that is similar to owning a nice care but not having some features because you don't pay a subscription. I know that's not too close of a comparison, but for the consumer to see a bafang mid drive be able to have both features and know it's possible...it's kind of like "what the heck man?"
Thanks for the updates, Chris! Much appreciated. Cheers! John
Thank you, Chris! ALWAYS great info and your efforts communicating the eBike movement... well... you're a CHAMPION! ✌🙏✌
Super job with a solid breakdown of the trends ~!
The overhang of batteries that are seen as unsafe by insurers and therefore transit authorities is the biggest problem now. We need to get to a place where all e-mobility is certified as safe using non-volatile batteries before they'll allow them on transit again and that's a big impediment to wider usage in multimodal transport. New York's policy looks like an attempt at this but whether that's with the intention of allowing them back onto transit once the risk is deemed gone is another question. Either way it will be a long wait now before the fears of battery fires fade enough to allow the full use of e-mobility without the safety concerns.
In the Netherlands now fatbikes are becoming more popular since we have to wear helmets on mopeds of 25km/h, but now children ride the fatbikes like they are mopeds. And usually they go the same speed or even faster than those mopeds. The difference between those bikes and the mpeds is everyone can ride them. So children younger than 16 and without moped license basically use the fatbikes like mopeds. Many have throttles and people don't even have to pedal. It such as shame that such a good idea now feels like a nuisance in the Netherlands and fatbikes now are getting the same stigma like the small mopeds had. Basically because of the behaviour of the drivers
Perhaps in the future it will be standard for buildings to have battery charging lockers. That way the battery problem is isolated physically and power is monitored specifically. Also, if there is a reduction of battery size and even form factor is standardized to a certain degree, than the problem becomes even more moot.
Hey. Good stuff. I like your approach and the directions you want the Industri/community to go. Short term renting sounds very interesting! As a European, with several analogue bikes, it sounds appealing to be able to rent maybe bigger and faster bikes occasionally. Perhaps renting a “summer ebike” would be cool...
Hey Chris, I’ve seen your shop out in Brooklyn and I’m in the market to get a new ebike, my question for you is if you know of any place I can go in order to see the bikes first hand and try them out on a test ride before making the big jump on an upgraded model. Also I’m currently riding a magnum ebike and I was curious to know if you guys do some type of trade in to reduce the cost of a new propel ebike. Thank you!
I was glad that I was able to really try a number of excellent e bikes at Propel Brooklyn and was even able to take one home to Connecticut to try and return before settling on the Reise Mueller novo 3 . I love the bike, use it constantly w/ daily 32 mile commute - belt drive . It is smooth quick with fabulous lights for night riding through back woods roads. I rarely use my car . I love the bike and the persistent service and sound advice at Propel. Great bike and a great bicycle store- they are committed to rigorous safety . As a busy OB/GYN I appreciate these qualities.
@@julieflagg9171 sounds awesome! I have yet to ride a reise and mueller bike but I’ve heard many good things about them and that’s why I’m really interested in trying some of them out. Glad to hear you’re putting miles on yours!
I'm a big fan of ebikes, but throttles have gotta go. If it has a throttle it's an electric motorcycle that resembles a bicycle. The folks out on the trails and streets giving ebikes a bad name are almost nearly always on some sort of over powered throttle controlled bike.
YUP! Individuals turning bicycle paths into bicycle expressways is WRONGLY coming!
Great video, sorry I keep commenting as I watch lol. I agree w/ the concern about theft. Here in SF, no way would I park my e-bike anywhere outside. It would be instantly gone.
I would like to see a video about how people in the US pay/fiance the purchase of a new bicycle. The cost of a decent bike is still high. We have a cycle to work scheme and a few 0% deals in the UK. Doesn't have to be a long video. Thanks.
Keep up the fantastic content on your channel. Love watching. 👍🏻👍🏻
So many things to take in as a bike shop owner. Especially one with a conscience.
I appreciate your insight & overview of industry trends. I TRIED to buy Bosch drive bikes during the pandemic only to find the ones we wanted unavailable. I turned elsewhere to get other products. Now I am a happy owner of 2 Non UL eBikes for the past 2 years.
The recharge safety is of interest to me and I wonder if this will present opportunities for battery and charger manufacturers to provide UL certified components that retro fit previously unregistered components?
I still haven't bought an ebike, after numerous near temptations. But the issue of battery supply chain ethics around lithion ion specifically is stopping me. However, I still love watching Chris's videos. His team does some of the best out there.
*lithium
Nice update - new subscriber here. Why haven’t we seen the manufacturers emphasis security on their bikes? We have a Benno Boost and looking into a bucket next, both “expensive”. Neither seem to offer a reasonable bike alarm or tracking, in addition to a solid aftermarket lock.
Will new generations make this security a default?
In some European cities bikes are fitted with "cafe" locks. Going one step further, maybe bikes can have electronic theft alarms that give out a large 120 dB alarm.
Alarms are a bad idea. If you look at the research on car alarms, it's quite clear that they don't actually dissuade people from stealing them. The tools thieves use to steal bikes, if you're using a serious lock, are going to be equally loud, anyway, and that clearly doesn't draw enough attention to prevent the theft so why would you think an alarm would? In the end, you're just adding to noise pollution in your area when someone wants to use the same rack your bike is on the vast majority of the time your alarm is triggered. This leads to them being ignored, and therefore why they likely don't work (see again, car alarms, which people in cities automatically assume someone set off by accident).
Loud noises also are not harmless. There's an increasing amount of research that ambient sound levels increase stress and actual violent crimes in the area. So I don't think we should be adding to that by choosing ineffective "protections" that mostly serve to annoy others attempting to share the bike rack with us.
We all want BETTER BATTERIES! As in SOLID STATE BATTERIES soon to be available in autos and pickup trucks and likely 18 wheelers.
So why not for e-bikes? Lighter, safer, faster charging, longer range.
We are definitely looking forward to this!
Stromer is working on a prototype solid-state e-bike battery. The only problem right now, is that the battery alone costs $10,000.
Extremely well done explanation about the bike industry and market
Another thing I want to do is offer ebike rider skills courses. Education up and down the age ranges.
Even as an intermediate bicycle rider, I've noticed that an e-bike requires a few new skills to learn to ride them safely, and deal with the intricacies of the power system. The education should also include basic maintenance and how to do safety checks.
Good news: California banned landlords from banning eBikes inside. But by that time I had to get rid of mine already smh.
Teasing VElove!!!!!??? Should I be reading into this? That aside, you are really hitting all the needs for the consumer and the industry. There has to be a way to prevent bike theft and if possible, protect the costly investment from the elements while parked. I really think the community lending/library concept would introduce that there ARE other modes of transportation that a viable for business and personal transport. Access for all would be a huge cultural shift and advocacy for bicycle/pedestrian, and LIVABLE cities. I think there needs to be a shift in commercial use with a big push by citizens and city governments towards last mile delivery. Thanks for being a leader Chris. It inspires hope.
Fascinating & useful perspectives 👏
Much appreciated!
I have a drive shaft bike and all the stuff people saying what is wrong with drive shafts and I have not experienced any of it. it is actually quieter than a belt or chain. There is a problem here in Oregon e-bikes don't obey the speed limit on bike paths and it is becoming dangerous.
Biggest problem upcoming: Turning bicycle paths into bicycle expressways!
Higher speeds stay on streets!
it is very interesting to hear the trends in the USA, and the differences of those in Europe.
Great stuff! thanks for sharing!
Bicycle/ebike valet at grocery stores would go a LONG way
Thank you for this very informative video, Chris. If I'm able to buy myself a retirement gift next year, it'll likely be a Gazelle Ultimate C380+ mid-step for touring. Hope to see you then at your Long Beach store.
KTM is very committed to the bicycle business. They bought Pexco a few years ago and Felt last year. Their suspension company WP is now making MTB suspension. They are co building a carbon fiber plant in Bulgaria with Maxcon. Ironically KTM motorcycles cannot sell bicycles under the KTM name as the companies were spilt during a bankruptcy in the 90's. The are selling in the US as Gas Gas and Husqvarna.
I use LiFePo4 batteries (no fires) and regenerating motor. It is awesome… about 30% heavier battery than Li-ion but can take a much heavier charge rate (= discharge rate) which makes regen practical, as well as much wider temperature range.
I think it's tough to say no fires, but the risk is definitely less. I hope we do see more offerings which will improve the safety overall for eBikes
@@Propelbikeslithium iron phosphate is MUCH safer than lithium ion. It does not have the risk of runaway reactions that lithium ion has. I understand the reticence to say ‘no fires’ but like the original poster, I have never heard of a fire with lithium iron phosphate that was due to the chemistry.
Shoutout to the dude at 24:23 with the comically large backpack.
Thanks for another great report. If you had a store anywhere near Toronto, I would be down there lickety-split! In regards to batteries, I was under the assumption that this was mainly a concern for cheaper brand bikes. Have there been any issues with batteries from the big companies like Giant, Specialized, R&M, Etc?
I'd like to see legislated indoor apartment bicycle parking lockers, plus having a battery locker outside or in a fire safe room and safe from fire is a good option but even better would be better chemistries that are less of a bomb and safer to charge and use.
PS: I am seeking advice on Ebike conversions, I have a Catrike Expedition and being told not to use a midrive and that a 2000w rear wheel is the only viable option. I only want assist when I need it, I can exceed 35kph on level ground myself but then there are hills! My wishes are 350 to 500 watts either on a midrive or a DD rear wheel drive?
PPS: larger cargo bikes, I have a dream, a dream to be able to replace my pickup truck, some to all the time to carry a 1000lb John Deere propane powered walk behind mower, plus battery hand tools on a 4x6' deck, are there options (licenced (Battery rickshaw) or licence free)
Aloha Chris, Interesting video like so many others in the past.
I'm the tadpole trike guy. I saw a traditional but smarter electric trike from BMW. The Cube. Gossip has it at $8,000, Yikes! How did BMW steal my tilting rider concept?
I've become somewhat smitten with the Formula Armadillo but it has the $8,000 problem as well.
Cheers,
For that price go get a car instead. There are less expensive but well equipped ones (e.g.
Aah, I finally remembered the other trike brand : Tern. Thanks to another poster.
@@dennisluz6453 Dennis, Dennis, Dennis! I want go shopping and visiting without using a car. I'm 80 and have quit bicycles. I do agree that an old truck is tempting. But I'm tired of supporting the petroleum industry.
Hase brand delta trikes for elderly getting on/off.
Tallest seat Lepus model owned here with E-assist, 2WD, and Rohloff gearbox.
Most suspension/comfort under rider's torso.
@@unclegeorge7845
I don’t even think about mile four yet because you know when big insurance companies get involved everything slows down to a snails pace and they’re creating problems that don’t exist nor will they exist and it doesn’t make any sense to me that you know insurance companies would work against the businesses and all
Banning Ebikes from apartments is a violation of the ADA just to start.
Not all people can be marathon cyclists, and many of us could not commute 4 seasons without our Ebikes.
Also, rewarding electric car owners but harming ebike owners is just explicit car industry bias.
Federal govt has begun a program of encouraging eBike purchase with coupons based on one's income level. Calif has a pilot program for a few cities and there is a website with info.
I wonder how to choose a bike brand with a number of them leaving the market, through bankruptcy or acquisition?
Looking forward to torque sensor drives, internal gears, belt drive all simplified into one integrated unit with smart shifting (or infinite gear hub)
That’s what happen to the garage i use to park my load 75 in my work, they dont allowed me to park anymore and i just got the bike.. 😔
Ugh! Hopefully they will begin to accept tested eBike batteries.
nice vid. I wish you continued success with your business
Much appreciated!
How about the surge in E bike thefts? I was thinking incorporating gps trackers standard on all E bikes.
Another good idea. There's more elsewhere.
Great video- cheaply produced knockoff brands supply needed affordable entry price level products but with no safety regulation/enforcement that product can become a flood of products that breakdown quickly OR are dangerous - what would be interesting would be transparency where the company that is UL certified shared the cost of certification that they then pass on to consumers (per bike)?
Really enjoy your videos , well thought out. I ride a Stromer ST2 with belt drive and love it but one of the major issues is cost. I think if it were possible to bring down the cost of belt drive bikes with pinion gears more people would find out what a pleasure it is to bike. I’m not a fan of throttle ebikes if you want that get an electric motorcycle ….
Let's put it this way : as bike development advance why can't we have BOTH throttle and pedal in mid motor bikes? You then have a choice to select which to ride. And I think Evelo bikes (or is it Priority bikes) that offer that feature in one model. Best of both worlds.
I love my Evelo mid-drive with a throttle. I used to be a pedal assist snob, too, until my injury from an old bike accident (which is why I got an ebike in the first place) got to be too painful and I started not to be able to make it home from rides even on the highest levels of assist. The throttle allows me to be able to get out and get exercise by off-loading the pain-inducing parts of the ride (starting) fully to the motor and still be able to be independent on the really bad pain days where I might need to throttle most of the ride.
It is critical that we "right size" our transportation as we try to become greener as a society. It would be utterly stupid to buy a 500 lb motorcycle with excess Li-ion batteries, have to carry motorcycle insurance, and have to pay for parking when I just want to go ~20 mph, get exercise when I can, and be able to park by the door (because of the injury, walking excessively is difficult too on bad days). A 65 lb ebike more than meets my needs, even if you weirdly want to insist it's a motorcycle despite it having a 500 W (i.e., 2/3 hp) motor, which wouldn't even qualify it as a moped.
Maybe take a look at why you think you need to gatekeep such things? I'm sensing some abelism here...
Here in England we have cycle to work schemes, that you get a big discount and payments are taken from your wages, so my ebike and bits came to £1200 but I payed around £800. In monthly instalments .Also social Enterprise or Community Interest Company will rent you a bike for next to nothing and also fix your bike up for a small cost or no cost if your really struggling. ❤✌🏼🙏🏼
Any chance you could create or recommend a video or article on the critical mass theory? Our city just proudly finished a controversial bike lane that’s going unused. They didn’t do their homework on the likely number of users or they would have spent the money in a different neighborhood. We need more projects that get big ridership which I think spreads the use of bikes an e-bikes.
I'm not aware of one, but I will add it to the ideas list.
I have my e-bike I use for daily moves and all that, really wish I could rent some high capacity cargo load bikes for a couple hours at a reasonable price
It would be quite nice if these were more widely available. I have seen some in Europe but not much in North America.
I Really enjoyed the content. I always learn from your posts and find them very interesting and informative. I was working for an NYC e-bike retailer and we had to close due to the legislature, while I am sad to have lost my job as I love the e-bike industry, I agree with the view that safety is paramount and hope to see higher standards across the board. Cheers Chris
Maybe Van Moof should be changed to Van Goof ... :)