The CULT of the Spadroon: Adventures in SWORD terminology
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- The spadroon is a type of sword that has haters, admirers and now virtually a cult. The problem is what swords get caught in the 'spadroon trap'.
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How people think swords were ordered in medieval times: I want a type XIV, with a J1 Pommel.
How it really went: I want something like Edward has, but make it more stabby.
Maybe they had their own sword jargon that just died off and was never recorded.
@@allengordon6929 It seems unlikely. To be more precise, I can totally believe that they had a rich vocabulary to describe swords properties (at least the swordsmiths), but I don't believe they had very many words to classify different swords like we do.
Clever observation
Obi-wan Kenobi: "This is your father's lightsabre."
Sword collectors: "Hang on! It hasn't got a sabre blade, nor a sabre hilt!"
but it could be a sabre....from a certain point of view.
could be an energy rapier.
It's a Laser Sword godsdamnit.
@@JarodCain Photon tulwar?
Plasma cutter?
*Virgin Sword People:*
"That's obviously a spadroon."
"Noooooooooooooo that's a smallsword!"
*they proceed to argue for 2 hours*
*Chad Sword People:*
"Swords were just swords historically so arguing about terminology is honestly a waste of time."
"Yes."
"Wanna argue about it for 2 hours anyway?"
"Yes."
The Virgin Spadroon Cultist/The Chad Sword Enthusiast
At least the chads' argument will be a polite discussion, not a so-close-they-could-kiss spitfest of incoherent yowling,
@@timothyissler3815 “spit fest”...corona intensify
Guys, Guys, Please!
It’s most than clear that it is a sabre. 😝
@@juanpablopaolillo2049 An oddly proportioned spear.
The villainy of Spadroonery knows no bounds
A Spadroon in hand is better than five rusting in their scabbards!
YES!!!!!! Matt The Spadrooner Returns!!!!!
Matt should be The Captain of Royal Spadrooners.
Part of me wants to write a comment that annoys Matt enough to get a video made in response.
After seeing the conclusion I propose an annoying clasification where everything is either a spadroon or a hanger :-p
Spadroons are the best weapons regardless of context!
The komissvärja m/1685 and drabantvärja m/1701 are the best swords regardless of context. Massive penetration, cutting ability, good length and sexy handguards, nothing else comes close really.
Easy. Just tell him that the French sword bayonet was the best sabre of its day.
Ironically, what is referred to as a "saber toothed tiger" isn't at all a tiger ;)
Next you're gonna tell me it didn't wield sabers
@@Sword_Cowboy Oh, they did. They even dual wielded them ;)
This beautifully completes Matt's argument!
I would call that "fitting", rather than "ironic". Very fitting.
if only Mett Euston were here to witness this
Mett Euston of ScholaCafeteria and Weston Antique Arms!
I hef retuyned
@@metteuston7699 he's back to find da holy spodroon
I had to watch this for the name alone: "The Cult of the Spadroon!" LOLOL
It's kind of like other cults, except it doesn't actually do anything particularly well.
Many swords can cut, but only a few can cult 😄
@@scottmacgregor3444 when it comes to cults, that’s not a bad thing if they do nothing.
Yes, a Matt Easton video, just what I needed.
And you were the first to comment.
Lightsabers are actually spadroons: Change My Mind.
But heavysabers are not
Preposterous. Lightsabers are clearly bastard swords. Because they were used by bastards. All Jedi were born outside christian sacrament of marriage, which technically makes them bastards.
They're Jians. They have straight blades with at most small hand guards
I imagine an alternate reality where jedis used lightspadroons. This is obviously an insufferable hellscape.
PLASMATANA!!! (insert guitar riff here)
Some car owner today: “man, I enjoy spoilers; Imma put one on my Hyundai, maybe add this skinny wheel things”
Car enthusiast three hundred years from now: “well, you can tell this clearly isn’t a Hyundai because it has this flange piece in the rear - a special device we call ‘the flange on the rear’ - and these special spinning devices on the wheel section we call ‘spoilers’ because they spoil the balance of the wheel itself. Thus, even though ‘Hyundai’ is clearly emblazoned on the car exterior, the title papers, the sales certificate, and wheel they used to steer the vehicle (aside: we should get a word for that) we can tell it’s not a true Hyundai and is some kind of pseudo-Hyundai vehicle.”
Car weeb three centuries from now: “The Hyundai was the best car on any market because the ancient samurai used it to drive right through the rocky mountains, actually creating tunnels for other cars to pass through as they did! It’s all about the superior metallurgy!”
(Admission: I know less about cars than I do swords.)
If only Plato would be here to see his ideas be absolutely obliterated xD
Prodigy shirt? I knew there was a reason you are my favorite sword-scholar.
I would probably call that last sword a Platypus Sword, because it's a bizarre mish-mash of qualities and traits, and yet somehow adorable for it.
Very un-Scottish observation, Sir. You should call it a needle! ;-)
@@sergelecluse0001 well then it's a good thing I'm not Scottish.
@@scottmacgregor3444 Now, you see how names can be confusing?
@@sergelecluse0001 Well then, it's a good thing I explained exactly why I chose that name. To avoid confusion.
@@scottmacgregor3444....... :-).........
8:41 That is really the thing too many people forget; rapier, msallsword, what-have-you, it's also just a word. If you can succesfully communicate something with some word, then in that moment means that thing it is referring to.
Just like in dungeons and dragons there are giants, fomorians, ettins and all kinds of creatures when these are almost just different words for a giant, and they were just used to differentiate them from eachother in the game mechanics. So while when playing the game you might call something an ettin to call it something specific, the people in the fantasy world would just call it their regional version of giant.
I mean, when it comes to typologies, I think of this a bit like the words we use for colours. We generally speak of a few different colours, like blue, green, red, yellow, etc. However, the reality is that colours form a pretty much continuous spectrum. Therefore, we can get into debates like 'is this green, or is this aqua?'
But of course, being overly pedantic about where exactly the division is between green and aqua doesn't often help us. It's easier to say 'It's kind of between green and aqua.' Similarly, when we talk about typologies, I would imagine many swords are going to sort of ride a middle ground between two more more specific categorizations.
Matt's relationship with the Spadroon is worse than Ross and Rachel's.
Being overly-anal about terms is missing the point. No, the word claymore doesn’t exclusively refer to basket hilted swords. It’s just a corrupted Gaelic phrase that means “big sword”. Yes, there are type 12s and type 13s that are similar. Main difference between them as I see it is the type 13s usually have round tips and half length fullers, but I digress. My point is that being a bunch of neo-Victorians won’t get us anywhere.
Won't get us anywhere but future sword enthusiasts cursing our name, if the original Victorians are anything to go by.
Right, they’re just swords
For the record, I feel that terminology and typologies are good, but some folks wanna over-analyze everything and put everything in frustratingly over-specific stratifications of weapons and other things like music. Swords are swords, but calling them all swords ain’t helpful. Being infuriatingly over-specific about everything and trying to make some universal stratification of literally everything is every bit as bad as just calling them all swords.
And thus did Matt Easton and Nick Thomas fight to the death...
They had to use pistols ....... it got very complicated .
Another thing to confuse matters is that old films often used sport fencing sabres as rapiers.
A smile was put on my face seeing the photograph come in useful so quickly, I appreciate the credit given! Great video, Matt.
When I took part in that Facebook debate yesterday I could never imagine it would be the cause of Matt's latest video. Surreal
I spent the whole day watching Matt videos including this afternoon livestream as well as this video.
The best name for any cutting sword:
"The dividing line"
All weapons in this video are examples of European katanas.
The proper name for a European smallsword is actually a European wakizashi 😎
Most modern classifications were not used exclusively for that item if at all in the time period it was manufactured. The reason for this is to make it easier for modern museum curators to organize their collections. One of the things people today forget is that until the early 20th century people could not easily disseminate knowledge to the masses easily until the adoption & widespread use of the radio. Before the radio if you wanted everyone to hear you you would have to travel to every town to give the same speech. That is why beyond the most general terms for an object there were many others used only regionally or even micro-regional names for the same object.
Informative as always Matt.
You heard it here folks, scholagladiatoria is now a sword-drama channel!
Just so you know : "sabre" in French still refers to curved blades in general, even if there were specific swords that were straight and called that way (maybe because how they were used, or issued, or the shape of the hilt gave it a feeling of a sabre, or they wanted to give it a "noble feeling" to it, I don't know")
You also call a "Sabre toothed tiger" a "Tigre à dents de sabre" in French, and also because the way the teeth are shown is quite unambiguous.
Yay! A sword related PSA from Matt Easton!
Well it's finally happened never thought I'd see the day.
My life goals include having a wall that looks like this background
Thank you!
1st rule of the spadroon cult is we don't talk about the spadroon cult...
Love that last sword; cool blade shape and nice guard.
I think the problem is compounded in modern hema because many Hema clubs deal with weapons dating from at least the early 1400s on up through say the late 1800s.
Dealing with so many time periods and so many different countries who all had variations on what they called their weapons depending on time and the weapon...well it's hard not to need classifications.
Imagine how confusing a modern Hema study group might be if they refer to all weapons (longsword, spadoon, rapier, small sword, arming sword, side sword, etc.) as just sword.
@Scholagladiatoria excellent video with much common sense.
If you want another word for a cutting smallsword, it was sometimes called a demi-espadon (and a espadon is a two-handed sword) and it may have been the origin of the spadroon name
And i thought the cult of the Spadroon was the one where we worship Mett Euston and his most sacred artefact, the Spadroon, which we recognize to be the best sword ever made... At least that's the one i'm in.
I'm a big fan or Swords, thank u for your videos
Damn I thought Matt would jump at the opportunity to show that gorgeous S shape bladed spadroon.
These are some really nice swords you're showing in this video.
I think maybe with these kind of middle weight and length cut and thrust swords, people are looking for an ideal that fills all roles, and that probably contributes to the differences in nomenclature, as individuals value different characteristics.
Also the Italian word “Sciabola” (probably) came from the polish Szabla or perhaps from the Hungarian Szablya, and yes, at some point it stopped to identify just curved sword, and referred to a wider range of sword types.
We need Mett Euston here to discuss this, every one knows he’s the true spadroon expert.
Good work on the photo Jay Cassidy
+scholagladiatoria *The spadroon strikes a balance between backsword and smallsword.* Certain navies, e.g. the United States Navy, still issue spadroons to commissioned and warrant officers.
This reminds me of working in a machinist shop and looking for a part or tool. One had to figure out all the names by which it might be called, including regional names. We used to say, "Clear as mud!" Loved the video.
Cars are doing this today. Look at the 2021 BMW X4. They call it a "Sports Activity Coupe" but it has 4 doors and a lift gate at the back. So it's a hatchback. Or a station wagon / estate. But the cargo area isn't right for any of those. But it's not a sedan because it doesn't have a separate trunk/boot.
It would be neat to get a video on any swords that did have a consistent and distinct name in period.
Rapiers were also called pointy stabby jabbies in Kings arms pub on holloway road for 2 hours in late june 1840. It didn't stick.
The photo of the sabre toothed tiger got a laugh out of me.
I can respect that. I can and have gone to the pedantic side and in my work, it could help, but I've learned that policing other's language is increadibly difficult even if you just happen to be right.
In german speaking countries like Germany, Austria and Switzerland, parts of Italy, a sword ( Schwert) has a 'broad' strait double edge blade, an epeé (Degen) has a long 'narrow' strait double or single edge blade, a sabre (Säbel) has a 'curved' single edge blade.
I seem to remember that one of the early smallsword manuals (Liancour i think?) has light cutting (stramazone). I seem to remember that early smallswords had a greater variety of cross sections that enabled this. Also Colichemarde in italian is Frantoppino, after 'Franc-Tupin' which were french militia the Italians associated Colichemardes with.
EDIT: I was wrong: It was Philibert de La Touche - Les vrayes principles de l’espée seule (1670) and it was a *estramaçon*, which was kind of a cut/tip push cut done with a circular wrist movement.
your voice is very soothing
I believe even 2 centuries ago it was often called "sword-like object to be seen with, if superiors pay attention".
Probably not in earshot of metioned superiors.
Hi Matt. I have a request for an episode idea. Can you talk about how swords were forged (or welded?) in the 17th-19th century vs. 15th century?
I like them cause they look pleasing to my eye.
I am born and lives in a country where sword are long Machete with hand guard and polearms are Machete on a long pole, so take what I said with a grains of salt.
Has anyone ever tried to create a typogy method that could describe ALL swords, from a stick with flint edges to light sabre(🤣).?
Nope. So get to work, Andy.
Dungeons and Dragon.
Swap out flint for obsidian and that's the knife I'm currently making. It's going to be my first pierce using inlaid microblades for the cutting edge. They are scary sharp.
Lightsaber- Lichtsäbel or Leichter Säbel?
@@Entiox will you do doing any test cutting?
In his 2013 biography of J.S. Bach, "Music in the Castle of Heaven", British Bach authority John Eliot Gardiner addresses the famous(infamous?) street fight that a 20-something Bach got into with a musician who was working under Bach's direction at the time. Anyway, even in 2013, Gardiner referred the weapon that Bach used as a "rapier". Of course, this fight took place in about 1708, by which time the weapon we now think of as the rapier would have been almost entirely obsolete in Northern Germany. However, that's not what bothers me about Gardiner's retelling of the story. The issue I have with it is that most sources simply state that Bach drew a "dagger" on the guy!😀 If anyone out there knows for sure, and can show me the source, I'd love to find information that tells us more definitively what weapon the Great Master would've used to go after that bassoonist!😀 Sadly though, I don't think much more information is really known about it. It did land Bach into trouble with the local town authorities who were also his employers at the time, and his court records do survive. So... Who knows?!
My personal take is that a spadroon is typically a cut and thrust, relatively light sword with a single edge with a small sword or simple D-guard hilt, usually used by military officers. That said, that's just my take, and not something I would say is a hard and fast set of rules.
I want that Naval spodroon in your left hand !
I'm french and personally I tend to use Sabre to describe curved blades but sometimes also straignt single edge swords.
For exemple a katana is a sabre, a "ninjato" or straight katana is essentially the same thing so it's also a sabre.
You're quite right. There are some real cults out there! 😊
12:41 funnily enough 'Degen' now a days means Epée, as in epée fencing, but it is also used for smallswords or even renaissance rapiers in some museums. In the medieval treatises degen usually means dagger...so yeah...terminology is just all over the place.
Cool t-shirt!
Oh the madness of the Cult! But Matt showed off some cool swords. Epees. Spadas. Pointy and or sharp metal rods.
Another example, the word "broadsword" (The modern age single edged, generally with a basquet hilt sword) is called in spanish "Sable" wich would be translated as "saber" in english
It really gets fun since most people think a broadsword is a form of arming sword
It's funny earlier this year I wanted an edged smallsword (flattened diamond or lenticular section) rather than triangular epee style... I had to buy a short rapier blade (or that's what it was sold as) and mount it on a smallsword hilt. The end result looked an awful lot like a 1796 spadroon but with a back edge.
That's a very nice sword there, at the end of video.
I suspect that we have become so accustomed to precise modern manufacturing standards we expect the same from pre-industrial, hand made, products. Until fairly recently nothing was standardized. For example, before mass production, the parts of two guns made by the same gunsmith were not interchangable.
Sabre - Curved Spadroon
Broadsword - Big Hilted Spadroon
Longsword - Two Handed Spadroon
Smallsword - Stabby Spadroon
Rapier - Big Stabby Spadroon
Bayonet/Rifle - Shooty Spadroon
Spadroon - God
It's simple really.
Katana: Weibo Spadroon
Arming sword- proto spadroon
Dark age sword - proto proto spadroon
Celtic La Tène sword- proto proto proto spadroon
Khopesh: Ur-Spadroon
Piece of sharpened rock with no hilt or pole attached : Primeval Spadroon
"It's a rapier!"
"No, it's a sabre!"
"No, it's a slate!"
"...what!?"
"Yeah! It's black, twisted and smudgy, just like the Fume Ultra Greatsword, thus it's a slate! Oh, and You might wanna stomp with it!"
I stopped getting picky about various names for swords when I learned how chien and dow are used--were dow simply meant it had a single edge but cold be knife or sword. To your point, there is a variability across contexts and time that make it a bit arbitrary.
I was just waiting on a discussion about "shearing swords" and then you delivered. Right now I'm trying to convince a local smith to make something similar to your triangular section sword which can cut. How else can we work on Hope ;)
Great video. There's too many know-it-alls out there. Thanks alot for not being one.
I have learned SO MUCH from this channel. Excellent work! I can't believe I'm not having to pay like $14.99 a month for all this lol
Dear Matt, the S in German is usually pronounced like a Z in English, so it is in “Säbel.”
In “Degen”, your pronunciation of the single letters was correct so far, but the first E should be long, and you can slur the second E. :)
Thank you for another interesting video! Greetings from Germany.
So, would the English version of The Tick yell, "SPADROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!"?
... I'll see myself out now...
I always thought "SPADROON" could have been a Don Martin sound effect in MAD magazine...
Interpol needs to keep an eye on Nick Thomas (?)
Joking aside, I think a video like this on terminology is long overdue, I've been trying to translate Spanish and Latin American swords into English and it is really not easy since people want to put them in categories they were never intended to fit.
re: 7:00 As one of those people who owns a smallsword which can cut, and is still triangular cross section, can confirm. It can cut. I have cut myself on it.
Indeed, I am eyeing up a BIG diamond section double edged blade on what looks like a early 1700 brass French small sword hilt (with finger rings you can actually get your fore finger in).
I suppose it's really a transitional rapier
Fun game for the channel. Livestream where we try to guess how many swords are actually at your feet...
Also, Cult of the Spadroon! New band name. I called it!
Spadroon sounds like an insult. "You bloody spadroon!"
Can confirm, Spadroon is cult.
You tell em!
At 1:30 ish thought hits me cult of the spadroon faces off against the cult of the katana.
You know, Matt, categorization has its advantages. When, for example, Eric Lowe in his "The Use of Medieval Weaponry" stacks 15-16th century two-hander with long ricasso and ears on the blade with 12th-early 13th century joinvillian warsword (Type XIII by Oakeshott) of the same blade length and possibly also weight, to the same category, I have some misgivings.
A single edged spadroon is just a backsword that went on a diet.
Very nice video! But based on that reasoning, what would be a consistent stance wrt so-called side swords? In many contexts where we see the term used today, it's much more shoehorned than the spadroon situation you describe.
I feel like the takeaway here is that all swords are spadroons.
...your last sword, in Germany without a doubt would be called a "Degen". The hilt and guard style is very typical for most German infantry of the line officers swords ("Infanterie-Offiziers-Degen") from the second half of the 18th century to the beginning of the 19th century, e.g. the typical Prussian "IOD" . This type of swords was in use in Prussia till 1889, in some special cases till the 1.WW. ( as "IOD a.A": infantry officers sword, old typ). Some of this German officers sword have similar types of blades as well.
If this afternoon, you had to fight a French Dragoon, would you just as soon wield a spoon as a spadroon? Please give detailed reasons. Thanks.
Tactical teaspoon at the ready......... He's only French.
@@penhullwolf5070 th-cam.com/video/CApiU7kvgB8/w-d-xo.html
@@oliviercestre5683 That's what I like about fishing round here.............. guaranteed to get a bite😆
But will I be aided by Juddoon by a lagoon?
What about a spontoon?
Or, if you wanted to fight from further off, maybe a musketoon...
Spadroon. A smallsword that can’t thrust and a broadsword that can’t cut in one sword.
Matt you're making my head hurt 😞
“Applicable” made me think of A Bit of Fry and Laurie 😂😂
The final example is clearly a Big Smallsword.
I think people want terminology with strict definitions so when you read a period source that says spadroon or broad sword or bastard sword or shearing sword, you know exactly what is being talked about. Unfortunately it didn't work that way in period, but people wish it did, so that leads to them acting as if it did.
You say tomAto, I say tomato lol ... nice swords you have there Matt!! ;-)