I have an 1840 NCO Spadroon from Windlass and sold by Therion Arms for $170. It's edge needs to be service sharpened, but the tip is pretty good. And it does come with a metal scabbard and rings.
Great video - you addressed so many of my questions! Thank you! Since I got my P1897 British infantry officer's sword, I've been thinking: "Isn't this a spadroon?", "Why doesn't anybody call it that?" and finally "Isn't this a spadroon that perfectly addresses all design flaws of the P1796 infantry spadroon?" Also, thank you for showing and discussing various examples. In particular, it was great to see the P1796 Heavy cavalry undress sword and to hear your opinion about it. To me it looks like a better version of the P1796 infantry spadroon: more robust guard and a (generally) stiffer blade. Could you tell more about this P1796 Heavy Cav sword (here in the comments or maybe even in another video)? In particular, from the fencing/fighting point of view. There seems to be very little information about it, while to me it looks as good (maybe even better) as P1845 infantry officer's sword!
I'll put it on the list of videos to make. But overall yes, they are typically like a beefed up 1796 spadroon. Overall a tad longer, heavier and more robust. There are some 1796s that are similar, but not so common. Generally speaking they would have been a better infantry officers sword yes.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Great, thanks! When comparing 1796 heavy cavalry with 1796 infantry I was thinking not only about the blade, but about the guard, too. Not only the thickness of the guard but also the shape of it seems to be better designed to protect against a substantial incoming cut. BTW, I feel that the guard should be a significant part of the sword classification if the guard type noticeably affects how the sword is used.
Basically a straight sabre, or backsword, or light broadsword, there are a number of ways you can explain it. Not as a cutlass though. A cutlass by its very nature is short because of the intended roll. Cutlass blades are typically 24-29", whereas the spadroon firmly falls in the medium length sword range at around 32" blade lengths.
Matt Easton seems to hate spadroons. Yet you have shown some very nice ones that seem very good for combat. Would you considet test cutting with them to see them perform?
I've done some bottle cutting with an antique spadroon, that can be seen on a few of my test cutting videos earlier this year. I'd love to find cutting targets better suited to representing an actual target. Tatami looks nice but you can go through them with any sharp blade, even a kitchen knife. So like bottle cutting it's a good test of edge alignment and draw, but not so much of power and impact damage.
There are two reasons. 1 - the percieved advantage as a fighting sword. Some 1796 spadroons were awful and to some officers a sabre might have seemed a better choice. Surviving examples show us this is often not the case, as the weight, durability and quality of infantry sabres of that period is as varied as spadroons. 2 - fashion. I'd suggest this is the absolute most important factor. The officers officially allowed to carry sabres after they began to do it against regulation were the flank officers, that is light infantry and grenadiers. In their cases a short curved sword was characteristic of the Grenadiers earlier in the 18thc, and in the light infantry, well they were heavily copying the light cavalry and hussar fashions, from jackets to hats, boots etc. This image was to show an elite status, and then it is hardly a surprise they also adopted swords of the light cavalry style as to pursue that elite and romantic hussar image. One last potential reason is ease of wear. A short curved blade is easier to wear than a longer straight one, this is especially true when in light infantry roles where you might be scrambling around more.
A really informative video, thank you. Since I started to watch your videos I have become very interested in spadroons, so much so that I have bought two antiques. However, I am reluctant to do any practice with them and would like a synthetic but can’t seem to find one. Do you know where I could get a synthetic? I’m in the UK.
How would you classify the French 1816 Gendarmerie sword? It has a 31.5" double edged diamond shaped blade...similar to the very early transitional rapier to smallsword blades.
This may be a question best suited for the Spadrooner fb group, but how popular were spadroony blades in Victorian Britain? I have come across 3 Greek Spadroons from mid 1860s. All 3 of them have London marked blades mounted on Greek hilts and I would definetely call them spadroons as they all are one inch at the forte and then taper only slightly. Were these blades strictly meant for foreign customers, or can they be found in British service too, perhaps Highland swords? I should note they are unfullered and have hexagonal cross section for 3/4 of the lenght and diamond for the foible. Really stiff blades and broad enough to cut well. I dated them from the owner initials and coat of arm symbols to no later than early 1870s.
Many 1845 infantry swords were straight towards the late 19thc and the 1892/5/7 blades were of course very spadroon like. I've not studied enough examples to give percentages on it, but a good number of 1845 and 1892 blades on that I have handled were very similar to spadroons of the previous age.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I see, that certainly makes sense. In case I failed to mention it, the swords I discovered were double edged. Will try to post pics on the fb group in the following days if schedule permits it. Thanks a lot of replying!
You should do a video about that 1840 US NCO sword. I've wondered about how it stacks up to the European examples. It looks like a bar, is it stiffer than the 1796 spadroon? A clunky thing or is it an effective compromise?
Sure I will do. In short it is as stiff as the good examples of the 1796 and on average about 10% heavier. They are a bit clunky in handling though as they have little distal taper so they do handle a little bar like, but not horrendously so, a pretty solid weapon really. Though I would take one of the better 1796 examples over them, but they are more consistant in quality than the 1796.
The very round pommel and button on top, British spadroons stopped using round pommels around the 1770s and even then did not have that button. The shells angling forwards towards the blade wheres British ones angle back towards the pommel. and the swollen hammer type end to the quillion, where British would just use slightly swollen quillons or acorn shape, and typically with a very small bead or button on the end rather than the flat stopper. All of these are of course cosmetic features rather than functional.
It’s hard to know when we only see a word written in articles, books, and online discussion groups, but don’t hear it spoken. I mispronounced “cinquedea” for decades!
the spadroon always seemed preferable to the saber to me... are there any systems specific for the spadroon? or do we have to be creative combinging rapier and saber?
@@BladeFitAcademy thank's a lot!! sadly I only have a sidesword to practice with but I would really fancy something more similar to the real thing. can you recommend any good reproductions?
@@Ric885 I don't own any myself. I hear Black Fencer has a good synthetic one. I will defer to Nick on this one as I only have sabers and can't rightly suggest a proper reproduction from personal knowledge.
Excellent. I'm sure I've seen you sparring with synthetic spadroons. How did they perform against other sword types? As you described? (e.g. enabling swift hits more readily)
Yes the Black Fencer model which I advised on specs for based on antiques. Yes that is indeed the case. They are very quick, and can recover from cuts far quicker rather than having to use circular motions as Roworth discusses. There is a little less margin for error in parries against heavier blades, but so long as you parry as you should at the forte they are fine. Really just a blast to fence with.
Would shearing sword be viable to reference the light med length cut-n-thrust sword of the early 17th century but is not a true rapier? 16th century? I hate the term sidesword. Also, is there a period term referncing the roided smallsword used by French cuirassiers and the earlier Polish koncerz?
Not really no, even though they have a lot in common to the overall approach. In English the sidesword type weapon would have been called rapier or short rapier historically. Today the sidesword term is of course widely used and I don't mind it so much. I will get around to a video on that in this series at some point. The cuirassier's sword is still cut and thrust and so would be a broadsword in English. The koncerz is thrust only, basically a form of estoc or in English a tuck, though the term really refered to early weapons for armoured combat.
I would figure a WELL built Spadroon is an excellent self defence weapon for an excellent agile fencer sword fighter. But Thinking mistakes aren't easily forgiven when it comes to blows to the handguards and weapon hand or direct blade to blade blocking vs any heavier sword. My favorite idea of a good Spadroon type fighter style fight is the highly stylized *choreographed fight between Arya Stark & Brienne of Tarth in Game of Thrones. th-cam.com/video/jR8g4Vb-ssct/w-d-xo.html=232 eta whoah I was mistaken always thought the small sword was a type of Spadroon.
Arya's sword is very much more a smallsword. Spadroons are light, but nothing as light as that. Now in terms of parrying and hand protection. Well you need to compare them to contemporary weapons. Often it is said the spadroon lacks hand protection, but in the period it was use it actually had on average more protection than most other weapons in use, being sabres and smallswords. The shells being larger and stronger than smallswords, and sabres commonly using little more than a brass or steel knucklebow. You are specifically not supposed to parry with these, unlike some basket hilts that intentionally do. As far as parrying goes, consider what I said about weight and mass. The spadroon is light in the foible or tip, but not neccessarily elsewhere. A good spadroon is 8-9mm thick at the shoulder and over an inch wide with little blade taper. Meaning it has quite a lot of mass in the forte, where you parry. So they can be very robust in parries whilst still very fast at attacks.
1) Hello and thank you for this interesting and informative video. 2) Regarding the etymology, I know that in Russian the same type of sword is called (phonetically) " e s p a d r o n" which to me hints at the Spanish origins of the word. 3) I do not believe that a flipping guard (not an euphemism) is just a fashion choice; imagine falling from your horse with a shell-guard sticking into your rib.
Yes there are some references to the espadron and similar in 18th and 19th century dictionionaries and some even talk about spados and say it comes fromt he Spanish. But such dictionary descriptions can often be wildly inaccurate, so its hard to know for certain. The folding guard is absolutely for fashion and comfort and stopping wear on the uniform. Nearly every British sword for mounted use had a fixed inner guard, no consideration was given to the risk of falling.
Not really. That is of course the origin or things like spada and espadon, which in turn are the possible influences of spadroon, As in the video I think we can only speculate as there is no evidence to know for certain.
Yes indeed, though plenty of the fault can be levelled at the regulations implemented for it. They were too vague and resulted in a broad spectrum of interpretations. The blade requirements for the 1786 and 1796 patterns simply said they had to have a 32" x 1" wide minimum blade. Within those parameters you can of course make a very good blade or an awful one.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing To be fair, I think that most people who have an opinion on the spadroon but don't have much, if any personal experience with them, get their opinion from watching Matt Easton videos in which in a number of them he states that he thinks that they're, for the most part, rubbish. Given Matt's knowledge and background, I think that it's not too unreasonable to trust his opinion if you don't have any personal experience with spadroons. Heck, until I saw one of Matt's videos on them, I never knew they even existed and thought that every sword that I saw with that style hilt was just a small sword.
I've always wondered why the folks who run HEMA care so much about the katana, an Asian sword. Is it because they see 10 year olds believing a katana can cut through a boulder? Why fight about an Asian sword in a European community at all?
Looking forward to see a video on the term ''Rapier'' and what is specifically a '' military rapier'' !
That is on the list to do!
What is a Spadroon? Master of all weapons!
I heard "Academy of Hysterical Fencing," and now I want there to be one.
That boat-hilt Spadroon is droolworthy.
Yes they are badass and in many ways the ultimate spadroon.
Really enjoying this series, looking forward to hearing more
Been a sports saber fencer, I think this would work perfectly for me.
Found it! Thanks for the share!!
I have an 1840 NCO Spadroon from Windlass and sold by Therion Arms for $170.
It's edge needs to be service sharpened, but the tip is pretty good. And it does come with a metal scabbard and rings.
Great video - you addressed so many of my questions! Thank you! Since I got my P1897 British infantry officer's sword, I've been thinking: "Isn't this a spadroon?", "Why doesn't anybody call it that?" and finally "Isn't this a spadroon that perfectly addresses all design flaws of the P1796 infantry spadroon?" Also, thank you for showing and discussing various examples. In particular, it was great to see the P1796 Heavy cavalry undress sword and to hear your opinion about it. To me it looks like a better version of the P1796 infantry spadroon: more robust guard and a (generally) stiffer blade. Could you tell more about this P1796 Heavy Cav sword (here in the comments or maybe even in another video)? In particular, from the fencing/fighting point of view. There seems to be very little information about it, while to me it looks as good (maybe even better) as P1845 infantry officer's sword!
I'll put it on the list of videos to make. But overall yes, they are typically like a beefed up 1796 spadroon. Overall a tad longer, heavier and more robust. There are some 1796s that are similar, but not so common. Generally speaking they would have been a better infantry officers sword yes.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Great, thanks! When comparing 1796 heavy cavalry with 1796 infantry I was thinking not only about the blade, but about the guard, too. Not only the thickness of the guard but also the shape of it seems to be better designed to protect against a substantial incoming cut. BTW, I feel that the guard should be a significant part of the sword classification if the guard type noticeably affects how the sword is used.
Thank you. I've only every handled the black fencer synthetic one which I liked the feel of. More information is always good.
It Looks Like A Very Straight Saber Or Cutlass Really Cool Sword
Basically a straight sabre, or backsword, or light broadsword, there are a number of ways you can explain it. Not as a cutlass though. A cutlass by its very nature is short because of the intended roll. Cutlass blades are typically 24-29", whereas the spadroon firmly falls in the medium length sword range at around 32" blade lengths.
Matt Easton seems to hate spadroons. Yet you have shown some very nice ones that seem very good for combat. Would you considet test cutting with them to see them perform?
I've done some bottle cutting with an antique spadroon, that can be seen on a few of my test cutting videos earlier this year. I'd love to find cutting targets better suited to representing an actual target. Tatami looks nice but you can go through them with any sharp blade, even a kitchen knife. So like bottle cutting it's a good test of edge alignment and draw, but not so much of power and impact damage.
Matt Easton has since changed his ways. I should know, I've fought him! :D
The world needs a carbon fiber tacticool spadroon
Late comment I know but where might I find a spadroon with the more sabre styled guard? Great vid!
Great video Nick ! How can you explain the fact that some British infantry officers carried sabres akin to the 1797 LTC instead of a decent spadroon ?
There are two reasons. 1 - the percieved advantage as a fighting sword. Some 1796 spadroons were awful and to some officers a sabre might have seemed a better choice. Surviving examples show us this is often not the case, as the weight, durability and quality of infantry sabres of that period is as varied as spadroons.
2 - fashion. I'd suggest this is the absolute most important factor. The officers officially allowed to carry sabres after they began to do it against regulation were the flank officers, that is light infantry and grenadiers. In their cases a short curved sword was characteristic of the Grenadiers earlier in the 18thc, and in the light infantry, well they were heavily copying the light cavalry and hussar fashions, from jackets to hats, boots etc. This image was to show an elite status, and then it is hardly a surprise they also adopted swords of the light cavalry style as to pursue that elite and romantic hussar image.
One last potential reason is ease of wear. A short curved blade is easier to wear than a longer straight one, this is especially true when in light infantry roles where you might be scrambling around more.
A really informative video, thank you. Since I started to watch your videos I have become very interested in spadroons, so much so that I have bought two antiques. However, I am reluctant to do any practice with them and would like a synthetic but can’t seem to find one. Do you know where I could get a synthetic? I’m in the UK.
Excellent! Yes I advised on specs for the Black Fencer model and recommend it -
blackfencer.com/en/one-handed-swords-synthetic/90-spadroon-.html
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I’ve watched the review and ordered a Black Fencer spadroon. Thanks for the recommendation.
How would you classify the French 1816 Gendarmerie sword? It has a 31.5" double edged diamond shaped blade...similar to the very early transitional rapier to smallsword blades.
This may be a question best suited for the Spadrooner fb group, but how popular were spadroony blades in Victorian Britain? I have come across 3 Greek Spadroons from mid 1860s. All 3 of them have London marked blades mounted on Greek hilts and I would definetely call them spadroons as they all are one inch at the forte and then taper only slightly. Were these blades strictly meant for foreign customers, or can they be found in British service too, perhaps Highland swords? I should note they are unfullered and have hexagonal cross section for 3/4 of the lenght and diamond for the foible. Really stiff blades and broad enough to cut well. I dated them from the owner initials and coat of arm symbols to no later than early 1870s.
Many 1845 infantry swords were straight towards the late 19thc and the 1892/5/7 blades were of course very spadroon like. I've not studied enough examples to give percentages on it, but a good number of 1845 and 1892 blades on that I have handled were very similar to spadroons of the previous age.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I see, that certainly makes sense. In case I failed to mention it, the swords I discovered were double edged. Will try to post pics on the fb group in the following days if schedule permits it. Thanks a lot of replying!
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I'd argue the 1889 Staff Sergeant sword is an evolved spadroon at the heavy and choppy end of the spectrum.
You should do a video about that 1840 US NCO sword. I've wondered about how it stacks up to the European examples. It looks like a bar, is it stiffer than the 1796 spadroon? A clunky thing or is it an effective compromise?
Sure I will do. In short it is as stiff as the good examples of the 1796 and on average about 10% heavier. They are a bit clunky in handling though as they have little distal taper so they do handle a little bar like, but not horrendously so, a pretty solid weapon really. Though I would take one of the better 1796 examples over them, but they are more consistant in quality than the 1796.
I want that exact sword. Where can I get a real one that I'd sharpened?
So, straight, medium length, agile in the tip. If those are the criteria... does that mean most chinese Jian could be categorised as spadroons?
There was a sword in my family that looked just like that and I didn’t know what it was
I haven’t watched your content for awhile. You look very different from what I remembered. In the good way. Cheers
Great video. What is a French design quality of the US 1840 Sword? Thank you.
The very round pommel and button on top, British spadroons stopped using round pommels around the 1770s and even then did not have that button. The shells angling forwards towards the blade wheres British ones angle back towards the pommel. and the swollen hammer type end to the quillion, where British would just use slightly swollen quillons or acorn shape, and typically with a very small bead or button on the end rather than the flat stopper. All of these are of course cosmetic features rather than functional.
Yes! The spadroon! I love this series of videos. FYI Ames is pronounced “aims”.
Like a ee ms or a y ms ?
Good to know, thanks.
It’s hard to know when we only see a word written in articles, books, and online discussion groups, but don’t hear it spoken. I mispronounced “cinquedea” for decades!
Hi, I was looking for someone who made cavalry left arm armored gloves. Do you know where I could find them?
the spadroon always seemed preferable to the saber to me... are there any systems specific for the spadroon? or do we have to be creative combinging rapier and saber?
Roworth teaches saber/highland broadsword/spadroon as one discipline. It's a great place to start.
@@BladeFitAcademy thank's a lot!! sadly I only have a sidesword to practice with but I would really fancy something more similar to the real thing. can you recommend any good reproductions?
@@Ric885 I don't own any myself. I hear Black Fencer has a good synthetic one. I will defer to Nick on this one as I only have sabers and can't rightly suggest a proper reproduction from personal knowledge.
Excellent. I'm sure I've seen you sparring with synthetic spadroons. How did they perform against other sword types? As you described? (e.g. enabling swift hits more readily)
Yes the Black Fencer model which I advised on specs for based on antiques. Yes that is indeed the case. They are very quick, and can recover from cuts far quicker rather than having to use circular motions as Roworth discusses. There is a little less margin for error in parries against heavier blades, but so long as you parry as you should at the forte they are fine. Really just a blast to fence with.
were older rapiers, side swords or back swords ever converted in to spadroons?
Would shearing sword be viable to reference the light med length cut-n-thrust sword of the early 17th century but is not a true rapier? 16th century? I hate the term sidesword. Also, is there a period term referncing the roided smallsword used by French cuirassiers and the earlier Polish koncerz?
Not really no, even though they have a lot in common to the overall approach. In English the sidesword type weapon would have been called rapier or short rapier historically. Today the sidesword term is of course widely used and I don't mind it so much. I will get around to a video on that in this series at some point. The cuirassier's sword is still cut and thrust and so would be a broadsword in English. The koncerz is thrust only, basically a form of estoc or in English a tuck, though the term really refered to early weapons for armoured combat.
One guy thumbs down this vid. How irrational is their hate for the Spadroon?
A waste of steel... lol. Jk. Any recommendations on a good, sharp reproduction for backyard cutting?
til spadroons are badass
I would figure a WELL built Spadroon is an excellent self defence weapon for an excellent agile fencer sword fighter. But Thinking mistakes aren't easily forgiven when it comes to blows to the handguards and weapon hand or direct blade to blade blocking vs any heavier sword. My favorite idea of a good Spadroon type fighter style fight is the highly stylized *choreographed fight between Arya Stark & Brienne of Tarth in Game of Thrones. th-cam.com/video/jR8g4Vb-ssct/w-d-xo.html=232
eta whoah I was mistaken always thought the small sword was a type of Spadroon.
Arya's sword is very much more a smallsword. Spadroons are light, but nothing as light as that. Now in terms of parrying and hand protection. Well you need to compare them to contemporary weapons. Often it is said the spadroon lacks hand protection, but in the period it was use it actually had on average more protection than most other weapons in use, being sabres and smallswords. The shells being larger and stronger than smallswords, and sabres commonly using little more than a brass or steel knucklebow. You are specifically not supposed to parry with these, unlike some basket hilts that intentionally do. As far as parrying goes, consider what I said about weight and mass. The spadroon is light in the foible or tip, but not neccessarily elsewhere. A good spadroon is 8-9mm thick at the shoulder and over an inch wide with little blade taper. Meaning it has quite a lot of mass in the forte, where you parry. So they can be very robust in parries whilst still very fast at attacks.
So its like a European jian?
Very much of a similar approach yes.
1) Hello and thank you for this interesting and informative video.
2) Regarding the etymology, I know that in Russian the same type of sword is called (phonetically) " e s p a d r o n" which to me hints at the Spanish origins of the word.
3) I do not believe that a flipping guard (not an euphemism) is just a fashion choice; imagine falling from your horse with a shell-guard sticking into your rib.
Yes there are some references to the espadron and similar in 18th and 19th century dictionionaries and some even talk about spados and say it comes fromt he Spanish. But such dictionary descriptions can often be wildly inaccurate, so its hard to know for certain. The folding guard is absolutely for fashion and comfort and stopping wear on the uniform. Nearly every British sword for mounted use had a fixed inner guard, no consideration was given to the risk of falling.
You don't think that the Latin "spatha" influenced the name??
Not really. That is of course the origin or things like spada and espadon, which in turn are the possible influences of spadroon, As in the video I think we can only speculate as there is no evidence to know for certain.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spadroon%23:~:text%3DBritish%25201796%2520pattern.-,Etymology,be%2520used%2520in%2520two%2520hands.&ved=2ahUKEwiDuaG25sDsAhXhdd8KHU9DDdUQFjACegQIARAE&usg=AOvVaw0jdB1GKhffxBIggo3Ljm8M
So the controversy goes back to bad examples of an officer's weapon, which is a private purchase to begin with.
Yes indeed, though plenty of the fault can be levelled at the regulations implemented for it. They were too vague and resulted in a broad spectrum of interpretations. The blade requirements for the 1786 and 1796 patterns simply said they had to have a 32" x 1" wide minimum blade. Within those parameters you can of course make a very good blade or an awful one.
Question: what is a spadroon?
Comment section: GAAARBAAAAGE
(I have no strong feelings about it one way or the other)
Indeed, this is how you identify the uneducated.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing To be fair, I think that most people who have an opinion on the spadroon but don't have much, if any personal experience with them, get their opinion from watching Matt Easton videos in which in a number of them he states that he thinks that they're, for the most part, rubbish. Given Matt's knowledge and background, I think that it's not too unreasonable to trust his opinion if you don't have any personal experience with spadroons. Heck, until I saw one of Matt's videos on them, I never knew they even existed and thought that every sword that I saw with that style hilt was just a small sword.
16:04 It is American after all.
It's a good sword but sabers are cooler.
I love both, which is why I have a great many of both in my collection of antiques, as well as training swords. Both great weapons.
I've always wondered why the folks who run HEMA care so much about the katana, an Asian sword. Is it because they see 10 year olds believing a katana can cut through a boulder? Why fight about an Asian sword in a European community at all?
please convince that the spadroon is not a worthless piece of shite, please!