Landsknecht Emporium Günther LANGES MESSER Sword Review

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2021
  • A review of the Landsknecht Emporium Günther langes messer, having owned it for a couple of years. There are LOTS of positive things to say about it and about Landsknecht Emporium as a company. There are also a few constructive criticisms.
    The messer being reviewed: landsknechtemporium.com/produ...
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    Schola Gladiatoria HEMA - sword fighting classes in the UK:
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    www.matt-easton.co.uk/
    Easton Antique Arms:
    www.antique-swords.co.uk/
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ความคิดเห็น • 282

  • @landsknechtemporium6616
    @landsknechtemporium6616 3 ปีที่แล้ว +158

    Thank you Matt for this fair review of Günther!
    It's good to hear you like the piece and use on a regular basis :)
    We'd like to give some reaction for your really constructive critique!
    When you received Günther, we were getting a lot of feedback from our customers about the sharp corners and started to gradually round them down. It took some time to find the balance between comfort and keeping the aesthetic. Since that point, we got almost no complaints about sharp corners.
    Rusting was an issue about which we were unable to wrap our head around for quite some time. It took quite a lot of testing to find the source, which was the wood glue we used. We changed the brand quite some time ago, no issues reported with this since then.
    The warp in the blade is a problem we're still fighting with. The heat treatment is done by a partner of ours, who does everything to prevent issues like this. Furthermore, we inspect and straighten each blade after heat treatment in our workshop and do one more inspection after assembling the piece. We had some major issues with curved and warped blades in the past, after which we searched for another company to make the heat treatment. In result, problems with straightness happen a lot less and we intend to do the heat treatment ourselves, which hopefully will get rid of these issues completely.
    Thank you again for the kind but fair review, we hope to hear from you soon! :)

    • @SuperOtter13
      @SuperOtter13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Love your work and am hoping to aquire some of your products asap. Beautiful blades love the aesthetic of your work

    • @losmanzani6849
      @losmanzani6849 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Very cool sword. Top of my list if I ever buy a sharpened sword.

    • @user-qx4fc1up8y
      @user-qx4fc1up8y 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      How long does it take to make one sword?

    • @landsknechtemporium6616
      @landsknechtemporium6616 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@user-qx4fc1up8y Our production time is currently 6 months, we hope that we'll be able to get back toa four months schedule later in the year.

    • @benjones1452
      @benjones1452 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Reassuring response I’m looking forward to ordering this from you

  • @shawn6860
    @shawn6860 3 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    Historical note: The Spoon Makers guild was also envious of many guilds. the master forgers of the fork makers guild guarded the secret of prongs. The Spoon makers to get around the laws made spoons with prongs and called it the spork.. : )

    • @elirantuil5003
      @elirantuil5003 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Spitting facts

    • @varanid9
      @varanid9 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      See, I never knew that. This is why I love these channels, I learn so much actual history.

    • @bozo5632
      @bozo5632 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Tell us again of the great chopsticks-toothpicks guild wars?

    • @Lord_Marquaad
      @Lord_Marquaad 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And made a giant spoon that are still used in both world wars

  • @LazyLifeIFreak
    @LazyLifeIFreak 3 ปีที่แล้ว +90

    If its oak wood it could be the tannins reacting with the steel, tannins are acidic to some degree. Walnut is also full of tannins, which is why the leaves tend to stick around for a long time before they break down. Ash, maple or spruce tends to be of a lesser degree but I am unsure, I'd have to go dig out my reference book on tree-acidity-content.
    As for glues, yeah some glues can be very acidic thou I don't know how long it lasts, aka curing time or how that chemistry would work out.

    • @nathanielmorton7459
      @nathanielmorton7459 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@TheSeanoops tod mentions polar both due to its lack of acidity and the fact it is fibrous so doesn't just snap if you accidentally sit on it.

    • @Matt_The_Hugenot
      @Matt_The_Hugenot 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      There's a reasonable amount published on wood acidity and its effect on artifacts for museums. It comes down to the wood species and storing under the right conditions of humidity and temperature.
      www.vam.ac.uk/content/journals/conservation-journal/issue-04/corrosion-of-metals-associated-with-wood/

    • @Matt_The_Hugenot
      @Matt_The_Hugenot 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Although tannins are often blamed the principal corrodent from wood is acetic (ethanoic) acid. Cellulose of can break down in the presence of moisture producing and each species has its own kind of cellulose.
      Speculation: it could be that it is the acids attacking the metal or they could damage the oil film on the blade allowing ordinary rusting.

  • @timporsch2669
    @timporsch2669 3 ปีที่แล้ว +82

    Tod once mentioned that you have to have a scabbard made out of wood with a low tannin content, otherwise the wood itself will corrode the blade. That might be the issue

    • @chemistrykrang8065
      @chemistrykrang8065 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      There's a good reason machinists tool chests aren't made out of oak.

    • @chemistrykrang8065
      @chemistrykrang8065 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      There's a good reason machinists tool chests aren't made out of oak.

    • @breembo
      @breembo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Wool lined also helps

  • @TheFlyguywill
    @TheFlyguywill 3 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    See, if most people on the internet simply stated “this sword cuts well,” we wouldn’t take them at their word. But Matt here knows his shit. If he says it cuts well, it does.

  • @RabenFlueh
    @RabenFlueh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    "Günther" is a quite normal German male name (although it's the older form... I suppose a quite popular name back then) 😋❤️
    Btw, love your really good pronunciation!

    • @Likexner
      @Likexner 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      What are you talking about? He says "gunther" like there is no umlaut and "landskneckt" instead of "landsknecht".

    • @not-a-theist8251
      @not-a-theist8251 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Likexner wasn't perfect but 'Nagel' for example was pretty flawlessly.
      CH has to be nightmarish for non native speakers

    • @Likexner
      @Likexner 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@not-a-theist8251 Ch is actually not that hard, even for English speakers. Ive taught it to a few. You just have to know how to teach it. I also think ive heard Matt pronounce it right in "Lichtenauer" before. As a side note, i definitely have heard him pronounce the Z in "zweihänder" the correct way, but then he went back to pronouncing it with the English Z. Its weird.

    • @Robert399
      @Robert399 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Likexner I feel like there's a convention for how much foreign pronunciation you can put into casual English. Basically, doing the nearest English equivalent is fine but going beyond that is embarrassing unless your 100% fluent. So "goonter" is fine (using the ʊ "took" vowel) but "günter" is try-hard. Likewise, every er in German is pronounced as a schwa. Same with consonants: w, v, sch, tsch are fine but attempting ch, cht, z, etc. is try-hard.

    • @Likexner
      @Likexner 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Robert399 I agree with your initial premise but i disagree with what you say at the end, especially about the Z.

  • @capinkyky
    @capinkyky 3 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    I just cut with one of these yesterday! My friend got one with the sheath. Not only is it a gorgeous sword, it cuts like a dream through anything you put in front of it. Very lively and controllable with no shortage of authority. So. Much. Fun.

    • @churchboy4609
      @churchboy4609 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Do you practice with other types of swords? I'd like to know how this sword handles compared to other types, like saber or arming sword, etc.

    • @capinkyky
      @capinkyky 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@churchboy4609 I'm mainly a longsword person! Though, lately I've been training a bit of Messer/Dussack with my friend! It's honestly more well balanced than any of the training weapons we have. Its point of balance, coupled with the rectangular grip, makes it endlessly lively and easy to control. It cuts like nothing is there haha

  • @wompa70
    @wompa70 3 ปีที่แล้ว +142

    Their motto is awesome. “We sell violence & violence accessories”

    • @ivanthemadvandal8435
      @ivanthemadvandal8435 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      "Your enemies won't be coming again"

    • @robertjensen1438
      @robertjensen1438 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      True but it makes the snowflakes at youtube sad.

    • @IamOutOfNames
      @IamOutOfNames 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@robertjensen1438 That's added benefit.

    • @j.m.w.5064
      @j.m.w.5064 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@robertjensen1438 I don't think so. Most people can tell a good joke from tasteless stupidity. And who wouldn't find this likable and funny?

    • @robertjensen1438
      @robertjensen1438 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@j.m.w.5064 clearly not everyone can tell a joke from someone being serious.

  • @live2diedie2liveagain78
    @live2diedie2liveagain78 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I've studied various "styles" of Martial Arts and over the years I've become "pretty good" with the katana. A friend of mine who subscribes to your channel told me if I really want to know about the art of sword fighting and the European weapons, take a look at one of your presentations. Now, needless to say I am also a subscriber and working on a plan to include your presentations in our classes. RESPECT & HONOR.

  • @c.m.3922
    @c.m.3922 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Literally shut off Friends and opened TH-cam to see Gunther in the thumbnail. Was very confused for a good 15 seconds there.

  • @LordPhoenix140
    @LordPhoenix140 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Matt: "I want to keep this review relatively short."
    Also Matt: makes a 24 minute review.

    • @chadfalardeau5396
      @chadfalardeau5396 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      For Matt that is short, at least for his reviews

  • @NameHierEinfuegen
    @NameHierEinfuegen 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Ohhh! Now I get why it's called nagel. It's not just finger protection it's also the nail that fixes the crossguard to the blade. I always wondered why it's called that. Much sense!

  • @zayaweight9579
    @zayaweight9579 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I’ve actually been saving up for this exact sword for a bit & it’s really nice to finally have your review of it

  • @footygoodness
    @footygoodness ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Just received mine, no warping on the blade whatsoever. They are also now lining the scabbard with felt to mitigate issues there. Thank you so much for this review as it helped me purchase my first ever sword and I am IN LOVE. Shelled out some extra dough for a beautifully engraved blue scabbard and a knucklebow on the cross guard, along with a beautiful little byknife that fits in the scabbard as well. Great work from Landsknecht Emporium!

    • @isaacg7983
      @isaacg7983 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hello, i was wondering what it looks like with the custom additions

    • @footygoodness
      @footygoodness 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      If you go to the website you can see what the additions look like. The engraving in the scabbard is a bit hard to see on blue dyed leather but the dye color matches what shows on the website.​@@isaacg7983

  • @bretalvarez3097
    @bretalvarez3097 3 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Gunther will kill Ross with that messer and finally he will have Rachel all for himself.

    • @bretalvarez3097
      @bretalvarez3097 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @wulpurgis
      Only available on HBO MAX

  • @Trollvolk
    @Trollvolk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Do you know the Kind of wood wich is used for the scabbard?
    Oak Was used for tanning be ause of the acid in the Bark and Partly in the wood itself. So maybe the leather or more probably the wood itself are attacking the Steel.
    I made a lamellar armor with plantbased tanned leather.... Where the leather meets the Steel it rusts very very fast.

  • @conquixote9612
    @conquixote9612 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome review as always dude :D - I placed an order for one of Landsknecht's other models about three months ago (a sharp-version Karl M5B with the same scabbard and baldric as yours). The heads-up about the potential issues with the blade twist and corrosion issues is hugely appreciated! :D

  • @TheLykaios1122
    @TheLykaios1122 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just watched Reclaiming the Sword on Amazon Prime. It was pretty cool seeing a young Matt Easton. Loved the facial hair Matt, you should bring it back for at least one video.

  • @keithallardice6139
    @keithallardice6139 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great review, as always, appreciate your honesty and pertinent remarks about sword, sheath and manufacturer :-)

  • @isaiahkerstetter3142
    @isaiahkerstetter3142 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Please reach out to Alec Steele! I'd love to see you and Tod teach him some pointers.

    • @Williamstanway
      @Williamstanway 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Alex is a very talented Smith and maker ,however I will agree there are inaccuracies in his historical builds.

    • @robertstuckey6407
      @robertstuckey6407 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I want to see them do a collab

  • @ssunfish
    @ssunfish 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you for this review! I didn't know about Landsknecht Emporium until Skallagrim video in April. I was trying to find a Condor knife & tool two handed Grosse Messner. I was quite upset that I waited too long from 2016 to get Albion Knecht. When I looked at Condor and Honshu Boshin, they didn't have a distal taper. I had a one handed sword that was between 3 and 5 kilograms. It was good steel and hardening, but it was way too heavy and clumsy!
    I soon watched videos on Landsknecht Emporium swords and since I am interested in Messers, Skallagrim sold me on acting fast since I missed the Knecht. I asked LE to make Gustav and Gunter for me and I will finally have a genuine and useable sword in the two of them. It's not enough to have a sword, it's gotta be hardened and handle well!!! I'm very grateful!!I don't know if I will ever find a two handed, but for now I'm well enough off. Perhaps a Buckler wouldn't be amiss! Your videos and information are appreciated!!!

  • @lukasbocker6740
    @lukasbocker6740 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just checked out their website. Thanks for this video, you really got me into this producer. Their work looks great and they even offer variants of their blades suitable for HEMA training at a pretty decent prive for the quality delivered. I also like the possibility to get the exact same blade in a sharp version to do cutting tests etc. with the same weapon I use for training and sparring.

  • @derstoffausdemderjoghurtis
    @derstoffausdemderjoghurtis 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Always happy to see landsknecht stuff. Would like to see a good Katzbalger replica.

  • @emanuelblei7699
    @emanuelblei7699 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Hi Mat, I like your video. Just to correct you: DW-40 is not an oil. It is really only a water-displacement treatment (hence the DW). You might want to use a light machine oil instead to protect the blade inside the scabbard.

  • @Sceadusawol
    @Sceadusawol 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a LE Gottfried (sharp, oak scales, with scabbard and 2-point baldric), along with a LE Medium Bauernwehr (left-handed).
    They are truly things of beauty and feel so alive in the hand!
    Absolutely want more of their products. Short of a high-end custom piece, I can't think of any company I would rather buy a messer from.

  • @romanista77
    @romanista77 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for this!
    With no good options for a Sabre, I’ve had my eye on the Gottfried with a knuckle guard for a while now.

  • @AndrewB_M.D.
    @AndrewB_M.D. 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been flirting with buying one of these for the past year after watching your other messer videos. perhaps this review will nudge me enough. greatly appreciate it!

  • @andrewnawarycz3026
    @andrewnawarycz3026 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The sword and scabbard problem has been about ever since these items have been paired together!!!
    The hardest part was getting the rich to pay for the equipment....

  • @paleasaghost-5799
    @paleasaghost-5799 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Would be interesting to see the other two "langmesser" reviewed. Comparing their handling and cutting would be interesting to me. Also i have read something about problems with their finish and optics, mostly that they are made too rough.

    • @johnbennett1465
      @johnbennett1465 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He said that he reviewed the other two when he got them. I assume you can search his past videos for the review.

    • @paleasaghost-5799
      @paleasaghost-5799 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@johnbennett1465 What i found was a package opening, with the stuff he got and a review to the Kriegsmesser. But thanks for the tipp : )

    • @johnbennett1465
      @johnbennett1465 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@paleasaghost-5799 oh well, as I implied, I don't check it out myself. So I guess your original request stands.

  • @lukediehl1210
    @lukediehl1210 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I've always argued that the reason messers became associated with common people is due to the construction.
    The first sword I ever made was a messer. I had no idea what I was doing, but that sword has stood up to an insane amount of abuse. The thick spine and full tang (a little thicker than necessary on mine) make for a very robust weapon.
    Yes, there were exquisite, masterfully crafted messers, but this construction lends itself very well to mass production by less skilled smiths (like me), which brings the price down, making it more affordable for lower class individuals.

  • @oregonborn9769
    @oregonborn9769 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really thinking of getting their gustav messer after this review. People have been speaking highly of their quality.

  • @mnordman2007
    @mnordman2007 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice review. I've got an Adorian on order, Günther's smaller brother. It'll be my first real well designed sword.

    • @ssunfish
      @ssunfish 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Should be coming in soon! 11 months on.

    • @mnordman2007
      @mnordman2007 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ssunfish I got mine a long time ago now. It's very cool short sword and very sharp! It's a little more forward weighted than I was expecting (~95mm) but that certainly makes it a more viscous cutter.

  • @breembo
    @breembo 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Had the same rust issue with my arms and armor dagger I bought a long time ago. The leather sheath was corroding the blade, and I live in a desert climate.

  • @messeringaround1426
    @messeringaround1426 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I also have this messer and I'm very happy with it. It seems I was more lucky when it comes to warping (mine is straight), but less lucky with the initial sharpness (wasn't particularly sharp when it arrived).

    • @messeringaround1426
      @messeringaround1426 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      One more thing - I have not experienced any problems with corrosion caused by the scabbard. Possibly something changed (mine is about one year newer) in what materials LE use for the scabbard or possibly the leather dye is a factor (mine is just the basic oiled leather).

  • @williamfawkes8379
    @williamfawkes8379 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    A lot of comments on this already, but as to the oxidation on the blade during storage, here is a clear explanation.
    This is a completely reasonable process that will always happen when carbon steal is stored in close proximity to vegetable tanned leather or tannin rich wood. Anecdotally, this is a common concern for knives, and it makes it somewhat amusing that it is shared by the "Long Knife." Hang them next to each other but not inside or touching, or coating the blade in beeswax before storage would be a reasonably effective way to reduce the effect as well.

  • @will2777
    @will2777 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Got a Gunther from them the other week, it was actually one of the first they had produced with a knucklebow, and it is quite a nice blade, and the price is good too. I'll have to check for warping on my blade, didn't actually ever see any issues but then again I didn't study it enough.
    Also, do you think the scabbards wood core oxidizing the blade is a result of the climate?

  • @ChueyiCha
    @ChueyiCha 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I can't wait till mine (Gottfried) gets to me in November.

  • @jacobhowson5501
    @jacobhowson5501 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just noticed the warp in mine. Had it for years, and just noticed it. I find it funny

  • @micahboswell4000
    @micahboswell4000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Matt! Love the page and content. I’m interested in starting a HEMA club where I live in the states. Could you recommend a good place to purchase trainers? Particularly basket hilt style swords with shields and daggers? Thanks!

  • @silverjohn6037
    @silverjohn6037 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Aside from saving a bit of metal is there a practical difference in performance between a peened tang and the Messer riveted scale construction? IE the difference between the rounded vs more rectangular shape of the grip.

  • @gillewilbanks8328
    @gillewilbanks8328 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have noticed the pattern corrosion issues on both leather and synthetic sheaths. Some do, some don’t. I dissected a couple . I am convinced that some of the modern adhesives change over time and become corrosive over time.

  • @RobertSpitzer
    @RobertSpitzer 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wonderful review

  • @1337blackone
    @1337blackone 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    i had the same issue with my scabbard but just over oiling my sword and allowing that to soak into the scabbard solved the issue completely

  • @jeremy4655
    @jeremy4655 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would you consider doing a guide of things you wish you knew before you got your first sword? It would be great to hear from someone like you who has seen a lot of good bad and ugly and the lessons you learned in one compiled place. Things like what glue are used in the sheath, I had no idea I even needed to consider that! If this exists please point me to it :)

  • @nealheidekat5726
    @nealheidekat5726 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As always, your candor is appreciated. Any suggestions for a good backsword of modern manufacture?

  • @LukasVos
    @LukasVos 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I had a rust problem with my selfmade scabbard as well, which is also wooden core and leather. After that I also put some oil in the scabbard and the problem never returned. I believe, it's just a thing for wood+leather scabbards, that there is a "evil" micro climate inside it, when not doing something against it.

  • @lyooyiylklykyokyklky
    @lyooyiylklykyokyklky 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have one coming in September- very glad to be forewarned about the rusting issues! I am hopeless with metalwork, so I wouldn't have known what to do.
    What do you think of the knucklebows? Are they historical? Do they impede the hand movement when cutting/fencing at all? Thanks!

  • @ohmiderzweite5660
    @ohmiderzweite5660 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I got mine very recently and they have rounded off the edges on the crossguard you were talking about
    Will have to look out for the scabbard thing, thanks!

    • @ssunfish
      @ssunfish 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'd prefer to soften the corners myself, to my liking. I can remove metal, but I can't reattach it

  • @theeddorian
    @theeddorian 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    One or two messers appear illustrated in _De Re Metallica_ by Georgius Agricola, a German author on geology and prospecting. One illustration in Book II shows various methods of prospecting including dowsing with forked twigs, test trenches and pits. The messer is around the size of a langmesser, with forward coil quillion, rivited scales with a metal cap on a downward hooked butt. Interestingly one detail is that the end of the scabbard is missing, torn off. It is leaned against a tree with other gear. Proper arming swords are also shown in various illustrations, never worn by more than one individual.

  • @JoshuaCairns
    @JoshuaCairns 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I would guess chromium-tanned leather was used in the scabbard (chromium alum or chromium sulfate is used to create the leather). It's a more supple leather and easier to use (you'll often see it used for the tongue of leather boots), but it'll wreck blades and it's not great for your skin either, but it's the most common type of leather in use. Vegetable-tanned leather needs to be used for blades, but it's stiff stuff and a very thin top-grain cut would have to be used to not have to break the leather in before trying to construct something with it. Vegetable-tanned leather is already 3x the price of chromium-tanned leather and it takes half a year to produce compared to the few days of chromium-tanned, so thin cuts of the most desirable part of the leather would drive the price up even more.

  • @blibla9512
    @blibla9512 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    To me it seems clear that that crossguard extensions with the sharp corners serves as extra protection for the thumb when using the thumb-on-the-back-grip. I read here in the reply from LE that they started rounding those corners on the hilt, but I doubt that they would present an issue when used as is mostly shown in the manuscripts: with a handshake grip, thumb on the blade or quite commonly thumb on the back grip. Hammer grip, which would bring your hand in conflict with those edges is rarely shown (never in Talhoffer or Lecküchner, to my knowledge).

  • @campbelldeeming9509
    @campbelldeeming9509 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Concerning the rust issue, having looked into it it seems the scabbard are either ply cored or built up from veneers, linen wrapped then leather bound after that. If they have used veneers or ply made from wood with high tannin content (eg oak/walnut) then this is likely to be a cause of the rust. The other cause will be the tannins used to tan the leather, quebracho bark is one of the key ingredients in this process, I use it for ebonising oak with a iron/ vinegar mix, put simply tannin and steel are not good friends.
    For those wanting to buy one of these, or one of their other products I would avoid opting for the oak or walnut options both are high tannin woods and will rust the areas they come in contact with. The Pear & Boxwood options are all the best choicesas they have low tannin content, but are a quit a mark up.Beech has higher tannin than both, these, but lower than the other two options. See if you can get them to start making grips from Ash, as that has a very low tannin content.

    • @landsknechtemporium6616
      @landsknechtemporium6616 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for your thoughts, we went through a very similar thought process to find the source of this problem. It turned out to be the wood glue, which we changed since then. So far we have no reported issues with this :)

  • @Dantbarfog
    @Dantbarfog 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The issue with the scabbard could be its made of oak as the tannins in oak can react and cause steel to rust

  • @levimontoya9101
    @levimontoya9101 ปีที่แล้ว

    can you provide a link for those round shields you have in the back there?

  • @crisloucks6805
    @crisloucks6805 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I might be able to help. I make leather sheaths for my knives. I use wood glue as i dont like the the strength of contact cement. Because wood glue(depending on the brand) is water soluble it cqn absorb moisture from the air and pass that moisture to the blade. If the manufacturers used a water soluble glue to glue up the wood of the scabbard, or to glue the leather onto the scabbard, or both, then i would say thats your problem. I would suspect it is from the wood since the oxidation is on the edges.

  • @rileyernst9086
    @rileyernst9086 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I do not store my swords in their sheaths. But on one occasion I took one of my swords from its scabbard and saw rust on it. But the thick and foggy layer of protective lanoline was still intact. On further inspection I saw it wasn't rust. It was red dirt. Because some mud wasp had made a nest in the scabbard.

  • @UncleFuncle69
    @UncleFuncle69 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Normally I would say it was the wood that caused the rusting because they used a high tannin wood like oak, but in this case I don’t think that’s what it is. I think you’re probably right that it’s the dye in the leather. Since it’s only along the blades edges where the dye material would more easily get on the inside of the scabbard (since that is were the two pieces of wood meet and would allow dye to seep in potentially) and because where the guard meets the scabbard is leather (I think it is unlikely that the tannins would work their way through the leather like that)

  • @maxcady645
    @maxcady645 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would you recommend the United Cutlery Honshu "Broadsword" ?

  • @mateoocampo3165
    @mateoocampo3165 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The same goes for handguns. NEVER store a handgun in a leather holster long term. The chemicals used to tan the leather corrode blued steel. Stainless steel may even stain a bit.

  • @ThomasRonnberg
    @ThomasRonnberg ปีที่แล้ว

    I think what we often constitute to laws, or cultural changes to sword designs and tool designs etc is in fact just new tooling methods and new machineries being developed.
    I would bet that the development of the langes messer may be a by product of somekind of forge rolling tool. Full tangs are really much more of a by product of ''sheet metal'' style work than forging. Plus the roller itself will give you a consistent enough flatness on both sides of the raw steel bar which the sword is made from to attach scales to it without any real need for filing or hammering.

  • @Toys0714
    @Toys0714 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you point me towards a period treatise on messers? Specifically one that covers fighting techniques using lang messers and grosse messers and translated into English. Thank you.

  • @vicorix
    @vicorix ปีที่แล้ว

    I say it's the wood of the scabbard. I made a scabbard with poplar before and it left oxidation on my albion. So I start lining the wood with wool and lanolin.

  • @royjaskowski905
    @royjaskowski905 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hallow pins? You mean roll pins? Makes sense as they are forgiving on a press fit and springiness will keep them in place.

  • @Anonym-gg1gt
    @Anonym-gg1gt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Have the same problems with rust with both of my messer from landsknecht emporium.

  • @pietertalens1256
    @pietertalens1256 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is it possible the blade got warped a little through use?

  • @martinbonniciphotography
    @martinbonniciphotography 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hmmm looking for a Messer. From this video and now looking at the Landsknecht Emporium website.

  • @leemcgann6470
    @leemcgann6470 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The knuckle bow is cool too!

  • @mikejohnson555
    @mikejohnson555 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You mention that there is a slight warp in the blade but the sword still cuts very well. I also have cut with factory second blades that had warps, and they still cut well. This really begs the question: was this historically common? It seems like it must have been and many slightly warped or waved blades would have still been sold at a discount and poorer soldiers on a budged could still make decent use out of such a sword. It would be a interesting topic to address. It also would not be surprising that today few if any such original examples exist as what has been preserved are often high quality expensive swords, not an imperfect common soldiers sword with defects.

  • @_aullik
    @_aullik ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The problem with the myths/theories of the history of the Messer is that it might have started out as a way around the law for a cheap sword like Messer and then it gained popularity and became more widely used. So it is really hard to disprove such a theory and it is equally hard to prove it.

  • @tamlandipper29
    @tamlandipper29 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cover their dussack. Roughly the same price point, and I don't recall you doing dussacks before.

  • @thehopperhopes6365
    @thehopperhopes6365 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Matt , Rather than WD40 try using ballistol on the leather works on both steel , leather, wood. Literally you can spray it over everything Best thing you can have in the cupboard. Also chrome tanned leather can cause rust , vegetable tanned or brain tanned leather works best.

  • @georgiv7154
    @georgiv7154 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I imagine Messers were around simply for practical reasons and probably because of taste. I can see some upsides to a Messer over a Sword:
    - No pommel-issues (unscrewing, losening)
    - less edge-maintanance because there's only one edge to keep in good shape and sharpening a one edged blade might be easier
    - utility. Since it's basically a big knife it should work as a knife aswell ;-)
    - might be cheaper
    Fashion certainly also was an important factor.

    • @PJDAltamirus0425
      @PJDAltamirus0425 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You could possibly make the blade like a katana and have little issues. Also, probably safer to chop wood with it because of the wedge cross section.

    • @lalli8152
      @lalli8152 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I feel like it came maybe from the utility chopper type big knives that seemed to be popular in germanic areas. At the langgesmesser lenght its also basicly just falchion blade with different type of hilt, and falchions were quite popular all over europe

  • @robertvondarth1730
    @robertvondarth1730 ปีที่แล้ว

    Rinse out the inside of the with mild baking soda solution, bake the moisture out of the scabbard, oil the inside.

  • @0rimus
    @0rimus 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man I've wanted the Adorian model since I first found out about them. Good to know a scabbard isn't included in the price. My goofy ass always assumes they are.

  • @blsancinet7409
    @blsancinet7409 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Although I am in no way an expert at this subjetc, the explanation that the guild system prohibitet knife-makers from making and selling swords sounds very reasonable to me.
    Simply because as a german myself this sounds like the most german thing to do.

  • @andrewnawarycz3026
    @andrewnawarycz3026 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The shape of the Lange Messer came about as most items and that is,(Fashion!) especially if it does what it says on the tin!!.....

  • @raphlvlogs271
    @raphlvlogs271 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    were messers worn on baldrics?

  • @umartdagnir
    @umartdagnir 3 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    Shit, now waiting time for them will become even longer than it is now.

    • @derstoffausdemderjoghurtis
      @derstoffausdemderjoghurtis 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Its worth it. They make more revenue and can expand and improve. We need swordmaking and fencing to be a thing again.

    • @camerongunn7906
      @camerongunn7906 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis
      Amen to that. If dueling were a thing again, there would be far fewer assholes in the world.

    • @InSanic13
      @InSanic13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@camerongunn7906 Are you kidding? People dueled over all kinds of stupid shit, and people today get violent and go to jail over stupid shit. It didn't stop assholes back then, it won't stop them now.

    • @camerongunn7906
      @camerongunn7906 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@InSanic13
      You only say that because we can't duel to settle this argument.😂🤣🖖

    • @slightlysublimated1619
      @slightlysublimated1619 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@InSanic13 If the gangs around me would settle their disputes with duels instead of drive by's.. that would be something I would get behind haha

  • @sdAlex46and2
    @sdAlex46and2 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Whats up Matt, im about to get one of these Gustavs. I did credit you as one of the devils advocate for me buying from them. >:)

  • @strydyrhellzrydyr1345
    @strydyrhellzrydyr1345 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think it's the die...
    Ok.. yeah.. glad u feel the same... I just bought something leather and the die is doing very similar things

  • @yeoldegunporn
    @yeoldegunporn 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have this issue with every blade with a leather scabbard i own ever since I moved to TX.

  • @royshobe6642
    @royshobe6642 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for making this video

  • @danielbaulig
    @danielbaulig 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did you address the rivets missing in the hilt? I’m so confused…

    • @danielbaulig
      @danielbaulig 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ah, they are hollow rivets. Got it.

  • @Xirque666
    @Xirque666 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just a thought..?
    Could it be that the Falchion and the Langes Messer, could gave evolved from the Scrama and Langes Seaxes? The reason that I wonder is because of the shape of the blades

    • @j.g.elmslie9901
      @j.g.elmslie9901 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      there's a bit of a recurring conceit people have, in the idea that "y evolved from x" in arms, mostly thanks to Bashford Dean's "evolution" charts from the 1920's. the reality is far more nuanced and subtle. There's a distinct gap of about 150-200 years between the last seaxes, and the first falchions, and the geographical ranges dont really cross over much. to messers, there's a good 400-odd year gap.
      the concept, a single-edged weapon isnt really a complicated principle, and the chances are that they are a re-development, or an independent development. After all, single-edged arms were developed multiple times in western Europe, the central European steppes, North Africa, SE Asia, etc. all at different times, sometimes being abandoned, sometimes reappearing. There are significant differences in design philosophy between the weapon types, which makes it quite unlikely they're influenced from others.
      If anything, falchions (and particularly the Maciejowski bible style falcastro or cleaver styles) were more likely influenced by north Italian / lombardic cleavers used in domestic contexts and farming and which themselves have roots in late roman knife styles, rather than north Germanic seaxes. the messers, meanwhile, seem to have come from central European knives, which simply grew in size, and developed independently

  • @claudiussmith8798
    @claudiussmith8798 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Best messer review ever seen!!!

  • @graemegourley7616
    @graemegourley7616 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have the same model. And have similar issues. My rust is milder, but my sword is about a year newer or so. My blade is really mostly straight. The warp is very slight, almost unnoticeable, and is only in the last 7 or 8 inches.
    My real issues are with the grip. I had rough ended rivets, and the wood and tang don't quite meet so there is a lip.

    • @TheDamokles
      @TheDamokles 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The grip on my Günther looked like it was done by a blind monkey dual wielding angle grinders, same with the one of my colleague that ordered with me and there were further problems like a warped blade, warped scabbard that should have been oxblood but was hot pink. We send both of them back for a refund which was issued swiftly. I got a fully custom Kriegsmesser from Viktor Berbekucz for the same price as the Günther and it has a fit and finish that, while not perfect, is head and sholders above LE.

    • @paleasaghost-5799
      @paleasaghost-5799 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheDamokles Sounds like a bad time. I want to order one of their messer types for a while. The warp in the blade is worse than the other stuff, because i just work the grip to my desire, myself.

    • @gemkapocs
      @gemkapocs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      if the kriegsmesser is the same as posted on reddit with the same nickname I hope you'll be happy when it breaks during use. As many berbekucz blade does ever since he's making them. Also calling a poor copy of an albion product "fully custom" is...well...interesting...

  • @yanniskusogaki
    @yanniskusogaki 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I always wondered, doesn't a big ol' hole right at the cross guard make it very likely to break there? I am pretty sure all kinds of bad forces are applied on that spot when you strike. Most swords I've seen snap it happened right there on the shoulder, isn't putting a hole there just asking for it?

    • @ssunfish
      @ssunfish 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      True to a point. But remember it is peined in completely disallowing movement. It's a little wiggle that does harm. When it's solid it has all the ductility of the steel...plus for toughness it can be tempered to dead soft there.

  • @tylerreed610
    @tylerreed610 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    If the wood is oak, or other hard woods with a lot of tannins probably react with the steel and cause it to oxidize

  • @brynmarcum1031
    @brynmarcum1031 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mine just shipped today

  • @CanadianCuttingEdge
    @CanadianCuttingEdge 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is it possible that the blade got a bit of a bow in it as a result of an impact when cutting with it? I am trying to sus out if you are certain it had that bow from the factory or if it happened after?

    • @scholagladiatoria
      @scholagladiatoria  3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I have only cut soft targets with it, so I very much doubt I put the warp there - also, it's a warp rather than a bend. Not unusual in the quenching process.

    • @TheDamokles
      @TheDamokles 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm the guy Matt mentioned in the video, I ordered two Günther which both came with a host of problems, not the least of which was a warped blade on one of them. I got a refund for both of them in the end.

  • @chromes5567
    @chromes5567 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    My man out here grinding

  • @Turigamot
    @Turigamot 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The wood might simply not have been completely dry as well as the tannin comments. Wood takes time to dry after it is cut. Even after you buy it from a hardware store or a specialty lumber seller. Sometimes a plank can take months to completely dry out. If it isn't dry upon the creation of the scabbard, and a sword is put into it, well, that moisture has to go somewhere.

  • @AnthusFrostwolf
    @AnthusFrostwolf 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think the problem with the scabbard is the glue. I made one myself and used a glue which pulls the water out of the air (sorry don't know better how to discribe it ^^). Now every time I put my sword in it, there is rust on the blade.

  • @Steven-jn2cw
    @Steven-jn2cw ปีที่แล้ว

    Could you Arab effectively with this Messer? It looks like the point is swept back slightly

  • @spookboleyn964
    @spookboleyn964 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    shotgun oil is really good for this corrosion issue

  • @dreadnought8363
    @dreadnought8363 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So maybe the idea of the “commoners sword“ came from the Bauernwehr, and with the Messer being a kind of related to the Bauernwehr they just get thrown into the same pot?

  • @rossmelnyk1900
    @rossmelnyk1900 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Do they offer left handed version of this sword?

    • @messeringaround1426
      @messeringaround1426 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, handedness is one of the options in the order form.

  • @spiffyracc
    @spiffyracc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Landsknecht should only be selling zweihanders and old timey parachute pants.

    • @DerSchlechteChirurg
      @DerSchlechteChirurg 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      codpieces also. don't really wanna see a review on that though. also a review of a superdry-codpiece is more likely

    • @TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight
      @TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      What about dussacks and plumed hats?

    • @mycatistypingthis5450
      @mycatistypingthis5450 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      How about Katzbalger?

    • @user-cx7em3zg3x
      @user-cx7em3zg3x 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Stop... Its hammer time 😂

  • @Faxeable
    @Faxeable 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    No, I don't think you should've done it (much) earlier. In general, I think reviews should be done after some time because some issues are only detected after some time (example in the video: corrosion through the scabbard).

  • @ericaugust1501
    @ericaugust1501 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why have you not filed down those sharp hotspot guard corners, Matt? You've had it for two years! :)