Age of F* Empires 2 for an Example. I played AOK, TC HD, all DLC and DE. I played it 4:3 still when i already had my first 1080p monitor. I adopted HD because it was THE SAME but MORE, but in a GOOD WAY. Then the Same for DE. We had LAN PARTIES dedicated to it(!) LAN Parties are DEAD, yet UT2004, CS, WoW, AOEII, Rune, CoH ToV, WH40k DoW, they all brought us joy and still do.
Why is the idea of liking a video game for a lifetime so offensive to some people? Why should we have to leave the games we like behind? Makes me wonder how many nostalgia haters have a beer bottle collection above their bed? >Hey!! You should grow up and get rid of that stuff cause reasons. Shot glasses are where it's really at.
Even my own brothers, who have played FF7, 8 and 9 with eventually told me to shut up about the game and that it isn't good anymore. I just can't believe they think like that.
Because those that play the same game for 20 years just keep comparing it with other iterations, convinced that their 20y old game is superior to retail. "Retail just doesn't give me that feeling of wonder and discovery that classic have me when I was 10" Yeah, no shit dude, you are 30 now. You are never going to get that again. And you should stop chasing it imo
He Sure Did!!! And Long May That Continue!!! Mad took a LOT of flak for his claim that they would eventually introduce the WOW token into Classic! And he was Right!!! As far as I am concerned... He can gloat ALL he wants!!! 👍🏼
@@hotlikesaucea plushie isn’t a micro transaction lmao. He doesn’t complain about the price of the game or the subscription….. bc they don’t ruin the game. The plushie also doesn’t ruin the game since… you know…. It’s in real life
People say this same thing about Arena Shooters. No it isn't nostalgia, I'm just sick of how fucking slow and plodding and laborious movement is in every single Modern Military Shooter. Sometimes I just want to bhop and rocket jump across the map in a single bound because that's way more fun.
It's not just about move speed, movement was a commitment in arena shooters, you had to think and plan even whilst moving fast, often performing accurate tricks to rocket jump or time your projectiles with predicted enemy movements. Compared to Fortnite where you spot a guy and there's a wall 0.1 seconds building in front of them making them bulletproof, if you don't build your own bulletproof fortress around your character the same moment, you autolose. Or modern FPS where there is no individual player balance, it's all teams, loadouts, character selection and overpowered abilities, sometimes autolosing because rock beats scissors.
Yeah I played quake a lot back in the day. Doom Eternal is a good arena single player FPS. If you want fast multiplayer gameplay you can try Apex Legends but it is not the same as quake obviously.
@@StaySic4Ever Quake Champions, like UT3 before it, is just pure eye vomit. I can't even look at the game for how obnoxiously over rendered the textures are. There is too much shit to look at. Diabotical was the ultimate AFPS, but none of you QC players bothered to give it a try.
Ding ding, I did play back in late vanilla, tbc and Wrath, but I was just a kid. I never got past level 30 outside a DK and geared based on what looked cool. Played starter edition like a broke boy on and off up through pandaland, then wod and legion, kinda 2019 classic is when I really dove in hard. Actually ground the reps, raided, made friends. It's so much better than retail. There's something comfy about OG Azeroth zones. Like the opposite of a liminal space
Jimmy's last quip about graphics needs to become mainstream. Not only do I want bigger budgets for story/lore, gameplay, controls/customization, (edit: voice acting), etc... ...I'm also tired of being able to fry an egg with my PC when running said state of the art games.
If they’re trying to go for realism then good graphics need to be there. If it’s more stylized, then whatever. I just think people need to stop thinking they’re special because they personally don’t care about graphics
What turtle wow is doing at the moment, is what blizzard should've done with classic wow. A classic plus would be fantastic. But I don't think they've the design philosophy as a culture at blizzard to do that anymore honestly. I wouldn't trust them to organise a piss up in a brewery.
I watched Terminator 2 last week for the first time in maybe 15 years. It really is the perfect action movie. Not a scene or line of dialogue is wasted. Nostalgia isn't making people feel like movies like that were amazing.
I played Quake 1 a couple of months ago for the first time, and it impressed me more than any of AAA games from the last 2 years. It's probably nostalgia, yea
I hate when people say the only reason people don't want remakes of classic games is because of nostalgia. People these days are so quick to call something dated when it's actually timeless. It baffles and saddens me that younger gamers want modern remakes of games because they can't get into old games. The same people that insist video games are an artform seem to be the first to demand timeless masterpieces get modern remakes to replace the originals. I say focus less on remakes and more on keeping classic games available on modern hardware.
Personally I’m completely okay with modern remakes so long as the original is still made to be available and accessible on the same hardware as the remake
There are so many 10/10 games from all generations you could spend a lifetime playing through them all. I like remakes personally. An example of a good remake is Black Mesa (remake of Half Life). It fixes a lot of the gameplay problems and looks beautiful at the same time.
My 10 year old brother plays classic wow with me from time to time and loves it, gives me those old school feelings of making a ton of different characters and trying stuff out and being in it 100% for the journey.
While some games certainly are timeless and would not benefit from a remake (Heroes 3 rings a bell for me) there are also older games that haven't aged well. And in that case there's nothing wrong with wanting a remake, especially if they can improve upon it. It simply provides more options that suit more people's tastes and having more options is always better than having less.
@@rep8778Half-Life is still a great game. Playing Black Mesa is fine. But it's a remake of one of the best FPS games in history. It is timeless and it's deranged to say otherwise. If someone is new to the genre, I strongly encourage them to try the original game before trying Black Mesa.
I think the journey can be done in different ways personally speaking. During leveling it was tedious to change gear constantly. But progressing at endgame I feel is viable and I learned this through elder scrolls online. Leveling and gearing is simple. It was getting in there and learning dungeons and trials bosses. Advancing my crafting. Things like that were a journey rather than the leveling experience. Sorry for the paragraph, your comment just made me go down this train of thought.
"I don't like this, because it looks old, therefore, the only reason I could possibly understand for why others might like it is nostalgia." This is the reasoning. Some games are simply FUN. Regardless of the fidelity of the graphics (and yes, I call it fidelity, because "quality" can't really be measured in technical terms. It has to do with stylistic choices, how functional they are, subjective measures etc.) some games are simply fun to play. People don't play Super Mario Bros. or Pac Man today simply because of nostalgia. They play them because they are fun.
People only play Chess because of nostalgia. If chess came out today, nobody would play it. What do you mean children today are learning about chess for the first time and then enjoying it?
On all the private WoW servers with vanilla-wotlk I played, I kept seeing plenty young people who prefer that over retail/other MMOs, just because it's a better game. They weren't even around when WoW launched, yet here they are, playing the classic 3 expansions (sometimes with custom content). So yeah, saying that old WoW is good just because of nostalgia is objectively wrong.
As someone who plays vanilla I don't agree entirely. I only played classic because wanted a different experience compared to retail, but not because it is clearly better. As I got older I don't have much time for the game anymore so some of the outdated systems make it hard to enjoy classic.
People have for years, especially within the WoW community, attempted to portray ''Nostalgia'' as something negative, when it's quite the opposite. Nostalgia is a POWERFUL thing in human beings, and even if something is ''technically flawed'' on various levels from a perspective in the future, looking back at the past, doesn't equal that ''it's bad''. Nostalgia is a powerful feeling we human beings have experienced and cultivated for thousands of years, back during the ''middle ages'', when your grandparents life, your parents life, your life, your childrens life and their childrens life was expected to be ''pretty much similar'' and time almost ''stood still'' due to very few major innovations that really changed the major impact of peoples lives, people didn't view old things as ''past'', they viewed it as something very much present. They didn't view things as ''something that has been'', they viewed it as ''something that isn't here and now''. Meaning: They didn't view sacret or cherished place as something that was ''lost to time'', they simply viewed it as something that just wasn't where they currently were located, and instead of viewing things as lost, they viewed things with a feeling of nostalgia.
He made me learn English, because he was just so much better than all content creators in my native language. Then I realized he was better than most content creators in general and then he was gone. Rest in peace, you made my life richer and I will always carry that with me
I'd like to point out one thing. Instead of enjoying the leveling process in vanilla and SoD, players adapted damage meter and got to level 60 in 3 days. And then complained there was nothing to do, because they couldn't really farm some pre-BIS by themselves and not many players were ready for MC. So, yes, the bane of a WoW player is themself.
Never played Vanilla, in 04-07. Only started playing from the 2019 Classic launch. There's something just cohesive about the experience that's been lost in expansions. The world was designed to tell stories. With the Xpacs, the first thing they did was abandon that world. Then all that cohesion becomes irrelevant, and only exists as a grind to get through so you can find a majority of the worlds inhabitants (the other players) all funneled into the relatively tiny expansion play area. I guess that's what I value the most in WoW and it's why I only really like Classic, right now.
I think the nostalgic argument is important when trying to objectively review a game in a way to inform others if they would enjoy it or not. Basically saying if you liked this crap when you were a kid you probably still will. If you didn't then tread cautiously. I think it's useful.
I think there’s another nuance to it, tho. It’s changing tastes and play styles. I am a huge fan of vanilla but also I’m an OG Pokémon player. And a 90s/00s JRPG fan. As ridiculous as this sounds, I like grinds. In the last 10-15 years we’ve seen an abundance of min max culture and enhanced competitive aspects as gaming tries to enter an esports phase. So it makes sense that optimization and race to the finish or less unnecessary tasks is ideal for the modern audience. But if I reviewed classic wow, I wouldn’t just say it was nostalgia for our own past, but also a reflection of a play style that deteriorated over those 10-15 years. So I think we can’t just say nostalgia for the sake of remembering our childhood (but it is a thing), but also a reflection of a different time and play style. Even on the new Pokémon games, I will vehemently avoid leveling boosts bc I like the slow burn time with raising all my Pokémon, and with wow vanilla I like the small feeling in a dangerous world that requires planning at even the most basic low levels 🤷♂️ Just a thought to consider
I like vanilla and ive never played it back then but ive tried it a couple times in private servers like 17 years ago(lol this sounds alot when i say it like that).I never played the servers that sparked the 2019 rerelease version but i played it in 2019 and it was really fun experiencing the game with such an active community. The only regret i feel is i never hit 60 and bushed a few times to around 40 to just quit cause friends also stopped but later down while watching Barney's Scarab Lord adventures i saw i missed something really fun. Like if they ever decide to release a fresh realm ill probably give it a go and try to salvage my past mistake but my Vanilla is a diffrent game and its Diablo 2(Yes now with D2R i get to play it like every 4 months on ladder resets and its fun cause i got some irl buddies joining me everytime). The game is riddled with Bots ever since a few ladders,people are making money from D2jsp and this more or less ruins the experience but all the people that played the remaster after release and the few seasons after that more or less dropped since they dont update the game(and they changed a few things through the seasons so people were more hooked to play).But yeah its both nostalgic and always fun to go back playing D2/D2R for a few months or even less it both gives me joy because the game is great and it hooks u everytime.The game's not perfect but it has the same charm to me like Vanilla/Classic has to many people and its GRINDY and people hate that they cant get the best items easily(cause they're old,have obligations or just dont know how to farm properly xD).Cant say that Classic experiences this that much it has a big Core of fans that just love it for what it is and dont mind the grind.
@@seanlinehan1136 The thing is, if I went to go play like old Everquest Classic, I can guarantee almost nobody is playing that game like they did on launch. That experience literally doesn't exist anymore, because that playerbase doesn't exist anymore, only the min max organised playerbase in a game that requires teamwork at all times. Much of WoW can be solod so soloers can simply ignore what the other playerbase does, but the moment they enter group content they get hit with the modern gamer who just wants to go go go, read a guide or get kicked, parse scoreboards are everything, raidlog and quit mindset.
Speaking to this phenomenon for old school runescape: I didn't even play RS back in the day, i was a wow player lol i started osrs in 2020. It's the best mmorpg, best long term progression. All other games feel extremely shallow after playing it; they are only fun for a few dozen or hundred hours whereas osrs i have 7k+ hours in and still so much to master. Incredible boss & skilling ladder with new updates every week or biweekly, most of which is voted on by community before passage into game. New bosses and raids every few months with quality of life improvements more frequently. No microtransactions or impactful pay to win, just $7 monthly membership I'm not a nostalgia player cause i didn't even play it back when it was the original game, it kept me playing while other games get boring in 1/10th the time or less. Wow strings you along on endless treadmill, osrs never devalues your effort
I just have a hard time understanding why content creators feel the need to granularize the reasons as to why people like something to such a degree that they feel compelled to attempt to trivialize it. I love Vanilla World of Warcraft. Period. It met and exceeded my expectations of what an MMO could and should be. And the current designs of how they've handled the game up to the present no longer meet those criteria for me. I'm an adult now, I have a family to care for, and a full-time job, and I don't have the time to live to win until I die. But I will contend that the game as it was then is worth preserving and carrying on as it was then. It's a different experience to what the game is now, and I think that it's a valuable enough experience to keep around.
It creates engagement, and a narrative that rewards the creators on a topic that divides people whether that division is artificial or not who knows but seems to be the trend across social media
The games that we grew up on were "novel" or "innovative" and "good" so a lot of people think that this is the standard for "video games I will like" despite these concepts legitimately coming from the developers who produced the game and advertised them as such. Anything that deviates from the formula seems to be labelled as "bad." If the marketing has changed towards nostalgia, just swap "nostalgia" for "attention" and now you know what gaming companies are looking to grab up. Nostalgia isn't bad per se but if you're not participating in it, you're experiencing fear of missing out. And well, yeah, I definitely felt that when I stopped playing WoW when my nephew tossed my Troll Shaman off a cliff in a high level area just before Wrath of the Lich King and I couldn't find my corpse without dying (when I quit). Regardless, the conflict lies in what Jimmy is talking about - the disconnect between the gaming companies and the playbase. The communities tend to be pretty awesome overall from what I've seen.
Jagex actually dipped their hands into that symbiosis between their games: OSRS released a handful of quests that are almost direct ports from the 2008+ version(s) of the game that people enjoyed and designed certain bosses and monsters that resemble old tough monsters in the ways you fight them. Runescape 3 added two bosses completely unique to OSRS into their game too. TzKal-Zuk and Vorkath were given their own unique boss fights because of how popular they are as characters/boss fights in OSRS. The sound track for Zuk in particular is actually a metal remaster of the Inferno soundtrack from OSRS where you encounter him, and it utterly slaps!
"The Glory of Combat" is the track's name, and it slaps *im-possibly* hard! Straight up one of the best pieces of battle music ever composed. Huge credit goes to Adam Bond who did the original OSRS track, but Julian Surma took that and cooked harder than any human has ever cooked before.
He has his moments. But I think that his opinions on video games are, ironically, among his worst and most ill-informed. Sure he's played games for a long time, but for most of his life he played WoW... WoW... and pretty much just WoW, with the occasional Diablo 3 and PoE sprinkled in. He speaks as an authority, but he has very little exposure to gaming in general and up until just a few years ago he wasn't really "a gamer" and moreso "a WoW player". This really comes out whenever he comments on basically any game that isn't WoW. He has terrible perspectives on anything but WoW because he has no frame of reference.
@@lorangemagnifique3001 it’s not his frame Of reference alone; it’s the ignorance and egoism he carries to feel he doesn’t need to experience anything else to know; and that’s so wrong
You can see these forms of player-created challenges in other gaming communities as well. Speedrunners beating games blindfolded, randomisers forcing you to think completely outside of the box to solve the game in unintended ways, Nuzlocke to make Pokémon actually difficult, RetroAchievements just... being a thing that exists (and it now being integrated into the GC/Wii emulator Dolphin since two weeks back). If the developers won't do it the playerbase will, and they always have. The sky's the limit. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on Folding Ideas'/Dan Olson's "World of Warcraft Classic And What We Left Behind", but I wouldn't be surprised if you've already seen it. Definitely leaves some food for thought.
I absolutely enjoy the randomizer. I've been playing a Legend of Zelda: Link to the past randomizer lately and I totally feel back in love with the game. I mean I enjoyed ALTP in its regular state but adding random loot from chests just makes the game so much more challenging and fun for me.
Some games were made well enough to stand the changes of time (Depending on the game and who one ask that is). I mean, Skyrim was released over 10 years ago and I still see people playing the hell out of that as much if not more than I as I go back to play Elder Scrolls: Oblivion at least once every year or two. Some journeys are just fun, and worth playing through again. At least, that is how I look at it.
Nightmare incursions would be okay if they were 1 time quests instead of repeatables or dailies. The idea of working with the Cenarion Circle to go through the Emerald Dream portals and doing some quests in an alternate version of the zones is pretty cool, if they were 1 time quests they'd need to thin out the mob density a bit, but it could be a cool group questing activity you can do while leveling. Ideally each of the emerald portal quests would have some sort of story through line that leads you into a new endgame raid, or maybe it could be tied to AQ somehow idk. My point is just that the idea of incursions is fine, the issue was the implementation which totally disrupted the leveling experience.
i love that runescape doesnt waste progress, the level cap on skills always will stay 99 there will only be new ways of training it. so even if i quit for years all the progress i made will still be valid and the resources gained will still have value , they still can be used for xp and stuff, even if there are 5 dlc size content updates.
About SoD: I played until 25, raided with my buddies twice every 3 days, and it got boring over the last weeks. When the next phase came out, I managed to level to 34, and it was tedious. I went 6 times into GY, 0 rune drops, no level-up. That's when I stopped entirely. The problem is that the additional rune skills are often just copied from some expansion, and generally not innovative. A better way would have been to fix the biggest issues of various classes, namely lack of taunt for prot paladins, and bad mana management for hybrid damage dealers. Maybe something to balance PvE dps (nerf warriors, buff hunters). They could have done it with the runes, by making them provide passive effects. Things like "-50% mana cost for offensive spells" would have fixed a lot. Another would have been to have spells interacting with classes. For warlocks "consume a soul stone to restore x mana." If they want to add something new, create new dungeons, new raids. They've done that, but with minimal effort. They just converted existing dungeons and turned them into raids. What was actually required were new dungeons and new activities in open world. To tamper with the classes and turn mages into healers and warlocks into tanks is bad. While it helps setting up groups and raids, it breaks class identity. And rogues were still a menace in open PvP, absolutely broken. And playing feral druid by using sun fire on range all the time was a little sad. It was powerful, but not what a feral druid should do.
screw balancing classes. That kind of thinking is why retail is such a bad game today. Especially the whole balancing for "end game" nonsense... their focus on raiding is another reason why the modern versions of the game got so bad.
@@jaredmcclure1730 No, that's not the problem. Balancing is important, but the key was that every class had its strengths and weaknesses, and even distinct roles and niches. The reason WoW declined has multiple reasons. 1: Power creep. Power went up exponentially, and caused old content to become obsolete. 2: Increased convenience, examples: Removal of soul shards, ammo stacked a lot (later removed), mages got a table, warlocks got a port-stone and HS wells, rogues didn't require reagents anymore. 3: Streamlined abilities: They wanted to give all classes everything they needed, for example everyone got AoE. 4: Automated mechanics: Abilities got wild, doing things automatically and causing players to lose control of their actions. 5: More sophisticated abilities: All class rotations got more difficult. What should they have done instead? 1. would require a total change in design direction. 2. had good intention, but removing mechanics was the wrong path to go. Instead of removing ammo, they should have made it an interesting class mechanic. 3. went overboard in the pursuit of equalizing DPS meters. Fair, but it went too far. 4. Bad idea. No automated effects. 5. Annoying change. People have to play piano to play their characters well. It could have been solved better.
Fun fact the same people who think Classic is the best, often want Fresh servers to do the same thing over again, yet faint at the idea of seasons in retail. Let that sink.
Nostalgia is an important part of human existence, the frisson that helped keep tribes, communities, families together. It's a wonderful element of life. And yes it always makes me smile to mount Ashes of Alar, years after my daughter passed on the roll to me. Dirtiest of casuals now- but it's a strong history of interacting with family. Also, Legion ftw. Last xpac that kept my daily interest.
I have heard time and time again that my nostalgia for certain things is "wrong" because I have nostalgia for things like Pokemon XY and my Wii U, those people are the biggest fucking killjoys. I had more fun playing that system than I ever did playing anything Nintendo did prior to it, because as a kid that's what I had and I loved it.
The problem with this nostalgia is that nostalgia is fleeting. often times when I replay an old game for the nostalgia, I enjoy it but after a while, I’m kind of over it. when you have a genuine interest in something new and exciting your interest much longer. The nostalgia is once you’ve had your fill of it that’s it. You’re done. By contrast when you were genuinely interested in a type of genre, say MMORPG then when a new game comes out, which is genuinely good you’re going to invest more time into it for a longer period of time.
First - thank you MadSS for the content! My two cents - some players want new shinies to allow them to better, faster, hit way harder. I like the simplicity of Classic. When I decide to role a new toon, I don’t need to rearrange my UI in order to maximize whatever. I just want to PLAY THE GAME! I find with the talent trees that I often choose the passive option because I don’t need a whole lot of extra buttons to keep track of in the rotation. I want SOME choices, but it can get overwhelming. I don’t want to have to read five books to figure out how to play a game. I also HATE HATE HATE leveling out of a zone before I completed all (or most of) the quests in n a zone. That didn’t happen in Vanilla. Finally, while it does feel nice to one shot things sometimes, it doesn’t feel much like I’m progressing. I like to die if I made a stupid mistake and I like to need to keep an eye on my health to make sure I don’t die. Right now I’m running a lvl 70 toon through Dragonflight in preparation for WW, and it’s stupid that my health bar never seems to tik down.
The only bad part about nostalgia is the fact that no matter if you do the same things again, you changed and so they are not the same. But sometimes they can be better! Nostalgia is a synonym for love. Why would love be bad?
Nostalgia is what you feel when you hear the Elwynn forest theme. FUN is what you’re having when playing WoW classic. Might of forgotten what that feels like if you still play retail.
The gaming industry and gaming discussion has always fetishized the newest games and the shiniest graphics. It was so bad in the old days that games were simply not republished once their print run was over, the argument from everyone was simply "buy the new sequal!". Which seems insane now we are in the era of games existing available online forever (mostly). But this belief won't die. Because the AAA gaming machine, which also sells latest gaming hardware with tons of technology employment behind it, needs people to keep buying so it can exist (and also make insane profit). 2D games were literally taboo for game publishers 1996-2008. There will always be new graphics fetishizers who need to justify their latest hardware purchases by hating on what came before. Humanity also has this lazy fallacy of believing everything in the past was worse, that everything today is so much better, when the reality is often very different and nuanced than what some history book or wikipedia entry says about reality.
5 year old quote from Tips Out (tipsoutbaby) on Fishing with Crendor (Ep46), _"Me personally, I look at Classic WoW not so much from the nostalgia standpoint. I have nostalgia for the original game, but it's actually just the game design itself that I've always been attracted to."_ I think that sums up how a lot of people feel.
I think a lot of people vilify nostalgia simply because they missed out on it all and shit on our parade out of envy that we have these things that bring us such joy.
I suspect people don't believe nostalgia is bad, they just personally don't like the game and don't have the balls to admit they have different preferences. Personally, I wish the last major MMO release wasn't just WoW again. But I have the bravery to admit I just want the next big thing to come out and just let people enjoy things.
i didn't stop playing wow because i ran out of nostalgia space in my mind's hard drive i stopped playing because i didn't like the direction it took at some point so when i could play a version i actually like again, i was there... but not because of nostalgia, i was there because i still like the thing that got taken away from me which is why i stopped playing again when they took it away for a second time i feel like this is why so many ppl ask for BC and Wrath servers, because they too want to keep playing what they used to like, instead of a version with changes that made them leave in the 1st place era realms are nice, but i did like BC and Wrath and wish i could keep experiencing them... instead of having to choose between their content OR a world that didn't get a giant lizard vomiting all over my favorite zones also pandas, i wish pandas were extinct... not because i hate them, but because i hate the fact that they're in wow
Nostalgia for old MMO stages i associate with the feeling of home, which is a good thing; if people are happy content and feel home, thats all that matters.
I just don't get why nostalgia and enjoyment have to be mutually exclusive. I played Wrath Classic when it came out because I loved it in retail. I had a blast all over again, despite the fact I checked it out due to my nostalgia of it
The negative aspect of nostalgia is that it is a strong feeling that carries away fast, thus if you start a game due to nostalgia and the game is meh, quite fast you will get bored. In the case of MMO, having a hype train that is indeed based on nostalgia can cannibalise the audience and affect long term certain games for no meaningful reason. That being said, on my alt tab i have twow running, I never played vanilla wow and I have tried both retail and twow. Cya in Karazhan.
I think the argument is that if a game is relying on nostalgia its popularity may not be a proportionate indication of its quality. This is probably most apparent to new players who get sucked in by the hype but end up disappointed. Having said that, theres a huge amount nostalgia around classic wow AND it is legitimately a quality game.
It doesn't bother me at all that players enjoy Classic, or that classic is successful for whatever reason. I think the main reason I find myself responding with something like "it's just nostalgia" is when people say the gameplay of classic is "superior in every way" or something like that. The gameplay of classic is timeless and holds up really well, but saying that spamming Sunder Armor or Flash of Light or whatever is "superior gameplay design" is where I have to draw a line and do a reality check. If people enjoy that more, awesome, I'm happy for them. But saying that it's "better than retail gameplay" is pretty coocoo.
Nostalgia sells games. it sells movies. people are more likely to engage with something familiar. companies are capitalizing on it. its the reason we get so many movie reboots. its too much of a risk now to gamble on new ip's. its not shocking and pretty basic marketing info these days.
Suits hate nostalgia because then they can’t sell you something else ( for non-subscription based games) Devs hate nostalgia because it forces them to either acknowledge their predecessors were better than they are or to meet a higher standard. Commoners who hate nostalgia repeat the arguments of the above as a status seeking maneuver.
I think you missed the point a bit. Both "The games are only popular because of their previous appeal 20 years ago" and "the games are good" can both be true statements. I don't think Asmon was arguing otherwise, just making an observational statement. Which was technically correct. That doesn't dismiss any similar statements tho.
When Quake 2 Remastered and half Life 25th anniversary update came out Steam and consoles probably had the biggest boost of people having fun experimenting and playing those 2 games online, and they loved it and are waiting for more
True. Games just need to be fun. I think this is why DOOM is remembered so fondly from 10 years ago. The gameplay is so fun compared to other shooters in the last decade
I had a blast replaying Classic. I’m a retail player, but playing through Classic again reminded me it was NOT just nostalgia and there were superior aspects of Vanilla.
Personal story but i think it relates to the video: I had played WoW only once in my life: it was around either Legion...i made the free trial (the one that lets you play up to level 20 for free).. I rolled an undead rogue, got to around level 15 and....gave up. It felt absurdly meaningless and boring....never thought about it for years, so i may be one of the people with the least amount of nostalgia for the game. Then one day around 5-6 years ago i ended up on a video from Preach that talked about how vanilla was different ("the legacy of vanilla" was the video), and i thought i'd check this version out...plus everyone at the time was having this discussion about private servers, the possibility of "official vanilla", so i downloaded a copy of the client and edited the realmlist to access a private server..."it's free afterall, i just want to check if the video was correct". I was pretty much sure i'd try it for 30 minutes and uninstall. ...6 years later i still play WoW vanilla/classic as my main game, with the same exact people i encountered on that private server. Once i got enamored with WoW vanilla i tried Retail and i did get into it,yes, but it would have never happened for me without the journey through vanilla, which made me love the world it's set in, it's little quirks etc.
Every single time I hear the music from Elwynn for a fraction of a second I’m in a different time and it literally moves me in a way I can’t describe with words. That music is why I always end up playing classic again.
I think maybe developers are less inclined to bring back and remake old content because if they are making something new, then the expectations are very malleable - if there's a feature the developers wanted to include but didn't have time to finish, you would never know if they didn't reveal it in a trailer, for example. However, if it's a remake of an old game to run on modern hardware, there are expectations - people know how it should behave at a minimum, so if it's not "improved" it at the very least needs to match the same level of quality as it had during its original launch. This probably puts more pressure on developers, they have less free reign in where the project can go if a particular feature turns out to be very difficult to implement.
The reason why people care so much is because nostalgia wont hold players. Plenty of my friends came back to classic wow to then quit after 3-4 months. They loved the initial nostalgia rush but then quickly realised the game was no longer for them, boring or not what is was now they're older. An MMO, above all, needs more than a massive influx then a massive crash of players. Nostalgia is a short term retention system. I love going back to the town I'm from every now and then, but hell no do I want to live there.
I only play 2 MMO’s, Star Trek Online & WoW and honestly, I love how they look. I don’t need the game to look like the cinematic, I just want the game to bring me enjoyment.
Nostalgia can give you fantastic experiences and be the driver for great games. Look at Age of Empires : DE, it all started with remastering an old 1999 game for an HD pack, based off a fan mode (the forgotten), and ended up with a strong community with constant content updates anchored in a game released 25 years ago.
I've been playing MOH:AA for over twenty + years, started back in its beta release. I've been playing with a lot of the same guys too.. I play or try to play new AAA titles but nothing compares to my first true online gaming love. It's outdated AF, but it never fails to make me happy, scrimming, pugging and playing on my clans public server is my happy place. -- 4 Life. Nostalgia means nothing if you never left 😊
you are the only YoutTuber I watch react videos for a few simple reasons: 1. first you are not putting up your face on 1/6 of the screen, you are simply showing the whole video and commenting/using it for your own video/topic 2. the videos you are showing are already very interesting and it is not about some sensationalism but for a broader opinion or different view on things 3. you are mentioning the channel you are reacting to a couple of times and really watching the whole video and I respect that! It is how it should be done I was sceptical when you started doing reacts but you proved me wrong and I am so happy about that. Thank you for the videos and I already subscribed to Jimmy because of you even though I never even touched RuneScape :D Tbh, I haven't played WoW for 5 years now but I am watching every single video from, probably due to Nostalgia! Cheers
Nostalgia can attract an audience, but people stay where there are people to escape with doing something familiar and safe. Why we need to do that is probably the best question to look at. Nostalgia is everywhere because the possibilities of the future aren't appealing anymore. We'll rehash the culture of the last century over and over until the end, and watch it all go down with an 8 bit soundtrack on an ultra high definition screen.
Yep I have nostalgia for 2019 Classic now in addition to 2004 Vanilla, but it is because of the fun and memories had and not just because of life at the time. I was in a guild called Nostalgic for Classic 2019 starting soon after the launch right until I quit mid Wrath, so even the word gives me warm fuzzy feelings.
Just wait til they start rehashing movies with a different ending, gathering up all the content that ended on the cutting room floor & calling it the Cleaners special. I think that's how we got Instant coffee, cleaner sweeping up after a Moccona batch & seeing an opportunity to sell coffee dust.
people making new games in an old style is cool. nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with also taking an old game and re-creating it in a different direction. but when you are nostalgic for an old game and replay it just for that experience it’s equivalent of visiting your childhood home. You might like to visit and look around, but then you’re done time to move on. Meanwhile, you go to a newer home which has some nostalgic elements that Harken back to your childhood and that’s where you want to live!
nostalgia does matter. saying "who cares" is a bad argument. nostalgia cant be created, only experienced. retail is dead because there is no nostalgia for it, RS 3 has the same issue. thats why SOD, and classic pop off. because nostalgia. the reason i care about nostalgia causing an influx of players is because a game cant be created with nostalgia implemented to the scale of an mmo.
I think it's pretty simple. If you see a game that looks like a game you've played before and enjoyed, you'll try the new game. I think people are fine with the older graphics for different types of game as long as the mechanics of the game are enjoyable(Loot/builds/replay/etc. whatever you find fun)
I recently binged Warcraft 2 and the expansion had the best time... better than I've had in WoW since leveling in Legion and LK before that. Who remembers the old Chef Boyardee ravioli?
This video belongs in a museum. I think you'd love playing OSRS. Players have been "Making their own entertainment." the entire time. There's never really a sense of having missed the boat because you're always going to be able to go in and tell your own story as you explore the game at whatever pace you want. You should 100% become a Runescape channel. I'm so down.
@@snuffeldjuret Do you even know what the straw man fallacy even is? It's not something that you "feel like." A strawman fallacy is a refutation of an argument other than the one being made by the opposition. This whole series of videos and the chain of responses is markedly not that.
There are 2 different arguments for 'nostalgia = bad/illegitimate credit'. 1: The product was genuinely not as good as people think but because we had less brains and experience when we were 8 years old or something, maybe that thing we loved when we were 8 wasn't actually that high quality by adult standards. Note, I do not think this is often the case whenever people raise their nose and cry 'nostalgia' at something.. 2: Tourists... People who have little passion or interest in the product, always meddling into things that they have no business in being, criticising everything that isn't exactly how they like it (often due to lack of ham-fisted political messages), accusing all the old stuff that wasn't built for their 'modern audience' to be beneath them, and people who like it have a misguided 'nostalgia' for it.
When the NES Classic was announced, I eagerly awaited it's released. Never really bothered with emulators or ROMS so this was awesome to me. Obviously, it sold out before I could even get off work and get to the store to get one. I was bummed. Like really bummed. Everyone told me I would get sick of it after a few days anyways. Well I got one, had a friend mod it with the entire NES library, and 6 years later I'm still playing it all the time. Moral of this story is F everyone who says it's just nostalgia and not as good as you remember. Fighting my shadow in Z2 is always as good as I remember. What's fun is fun.
I think old school runescape did so well because the devs actually care about the project. Jagex still hires people who are passionate about the game, and they do polls in game to see what the players want in the game and if it passes they implement it. Blizzard and wow on the other hand, (besides season of discovery) just cut copy and pasted everything they already did before.(from what I've gathered, i was a runescape kid not a wow kid lol) I think blizzard just wants to experience schadenfreude and be able to tell the Wow community that "we were right, told you so, you didn't really want wow classic it was nostalgia all along"
That game did well because it was a browser game that could run on a toaster. My friend got addicted to it in the early 00s. He got me to try it and the gameplay was really bad even for back then.
@@rep8778i can agree with you on that, my situation is the opposite of yours actually I got my friends to play runescape recently and they called it a point and click game and I was like "yeah I guess you're right on that one" lmao but the mechanics are different for both games, like the quests in runescape are more fleshed out and detailed but wow quests are a bit more simplified, don't get me wrong I love both games, but they got alot of differences and it's hard to compare the two. I wasn't tryna say osrs was better I hope it didn't come across that way
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Nostalgia can only carry an old game so far, good gameplay is forever.
Exactly. There wouldn't be a massive amount of nostalgia if the game wasn't good
If it was only nostalgia-driven popularity, then returning players wouldn't stay for long. Additionally, the game would not capture any new players.
Age of F* Empires 2 for an Example. I played AOK, TC HD, all DLC and DE. I played it 4:3 still when i already had my first 1080p monitor. I adopted HD because it was THE SAME but MORE, but in a GOOD WAY. Then the Same for DE. We had LAN PARTIES dedicated to it(!) LAN Parties are DEAD, yet UT2004, CS, WoW, AOEII, Rune, CoH ToV, WH40k DoW, they all brought us joy and still do.
@@RawmanFilmwe had so much fun with Rune, nice deep cut there
You can tell them that and they still won't believe you. Its old and therefore terrible.
Why is the idea of liking a video game for a lifetime so offensive to some people? Why should we have to leave the games we like behind?
Makes me wonder how many nostalgia haters have a beer bottle collection above their bed?
>Hey!! You should grow up and get rid of that stuff cause reasons. Shot glasses are where it's really at.
"You have a chess board and pieces?! Haha, that old game! What are you, some sort of an ancient nostalgia Andy? Kek"
I got hats 😊
@@one_eyeddd473 Nice!
Even my own brothers, who have played FF7, 8 and 9 with eventually told me to shut up about the game and that it isn't good anymore. I just can't believe they think like that.
Because those that play the same game for 20 years just keep comparing it with other iterations, convinced that their 20y old game is superior to retail.
"Retail just doesn't give me that feeling of wonder and discovery that classic have me when I was 10" Yeah, no shit dude, you are 30 now. You are never going to get that again. And you should stop chasing it imo
He told you so btw.
He Sure Did!!! And Long May That Continue!!! Mad took a LOT of flak for his claim that they would eventually introduce the WOW token into Classic! And he was Right!!!
As far as I am concerned... He can gloat ALL he wants!!! 👍🏼
Cryseasonshow being cryseasonshow
the dude cries about a micro transaction every video.. but releases a plushie to purchase?? make it make sense.
@@hotlikesauce this is one person who lives from creating videos not a multibilion company u make no sense at all man with all respect
@@hotlikesaucea plushie isn’t a micro transaction lmao. He doesn’t complain about the price of the game or the subscription….. bc they don’t ruin the game. The plushie also doesn’t ruin the game since… you know…. It’s in real life
People say this same thing about Arena Shooters. No it isn't nostalgia, I'm just sick of how fucking slow and plodding and laborious movement is in every single Modern Military Shooter. Sometimes I just want to bhop and rocket jump across the map in a single bound because that's way more fun.
It's not just about move speed, movement was a commitment in arena shooters, you had to think and plan even whilst moving fast, often performing accurate tricks to rocket jump or time your projectiles with predicted enemy movements. Compared to Fortnite where you spot a guy and there's a wall 0.1 seconds building in front of them making them bulletproof, if you don't build your own bulletproof fortress around your character the same moment, you autolose. Or modern FPS where there is no individual player balance, it's all teams, loadouts, character selection and overpowered abilities, sometimes autolosing because rock beats scissors.
Yeah I played quake a lot back in the day. Doom Eternal is a good arena single player FPS. If you want fast multiplayer gameplay you can try Apex Legends but it is not the same as quake obviously.
I legit play them every day. Like Quake Live or Quake Champions it feels fresh basically every time I play it.
@@cattysplat True, it was pure zen and flow
@@StaySic4Ever Quake Champions, like UT3 before it, is just pure eye vomit. I can't even look at the game for how obnoxiously over rendered the textures are. There is too much shit to look at. Diabotical was the ultimate AFPS, but none of you QC players bothered to give it a try.
As a 21 year old who started WoW classic in 2019 and started playing it over retail, it’s not just nostalgia.
Ding ding, I did play back in late vanilla, tbc and Wrath, but I was just a kid. I never got past level 30 outside a DK and geared based on what looked cool. Played starter edition like a broke boy on and off up through pandaland, then wod and legion, kinda
2019 classic is when I really dove in hard. Actually ground the reps, raided, made friends.
It's so much better than retail. There's something comfy about OG Azeroth zones. Like the opposite of a liminal space
I see this pretty frequently, I have some guildmates who weren't even alive in 2004, which makes me feel incredibly old but it's still cool lol
Im 25, i play games older than me its definitely not nostalgia, older games just are made better.
straw man
the claim is not that it is just nostalgia
@@valitsemllaluokanavahyvaks3556 im 25, I play all kinds of games, and the older ones are definitely not made better in any aspect.
Nostalgia is bad = We don't want old games to make our new games look bad and exploitative.
Yep.
Them: My game's better than your game.
Me: OK, well I have fun with this one. [Goes back to playing the game I have fun with]
:O
You can't do that! Justify your happiness to me!
B-But my game's better! LISTEN TO ME!
it's like that Jeremy Clarkson meme...
th-cam.com/video/k0f3A8whsxM/w-d-xo.html "this is brilliant, but I like this."
Jimmy's last quip about graphics needs to become mainstream.
Not only do I want bigger budgets for story/lore, gameplay, controls/customization, (edit: voice acting), etc...
...I'm also tired of being able to fry an egg with my PC when running said state of the art games.
If they’re trying to go for realism then good graphics need to be there. If it’s more stylized, then whatever. I just think people need to stop thinking they’re special because they personally don’t care about graphics
Beethoven's 5th is all nostalgia too. That Quixote book? Nostalgia too.
I like your point
Shakespeare too lol
i have the feeling you legitimately don't know what the word nostalgia means.
@@zerti86 The point is that good pieces of art are timeless, and that includes videogames.
@@belfastclrq i agree with you there. doesn't change the fact that you said something completely different.
What turtle wow is doing at the moment, is what blizzard should've done with classic wow. A classic plus would be fantastic. But I don't think they've the design philosophy as a culture at blizzard to do that anymore honestly. I wouldn't trust them to organise a piss up in a brewery.
My plan is to wait and see what the „much more“ is they want to implement. But I’m inclined to try turtle. Any advice on that would be appreciated.
From what I've heard so far and then confirming classic plus I seriously have no faith that they will do it Justice
I watched Terminator 2 last week for the first time in maybe 15 years. It really is the perfect action movie. Not a scene or line of dialogue is wasted. Nostalgia isn't making people feel like movies like that were amazing.
Affirmative.
I played Quake 1 a couple of months ago for the first time, and it impressed me more than any of AAA games from the last 2 years. It's probably nostalgia, yea
100% truth
@Jackfromshack if you enjoyed quake I highly recommend unreal tournament 2004
@@bashvash it's on my list
I hate when people say the only reason people don't want remakes of classic games is because of nostalgia. People these days are so quick to call something dated when it's actually timeless. It baffles and saddens me that younger gamers want modern remakes of games because they can't get into old games.
The same people that insist video games are an artform seem to be the first to demand timeless masterpieces get modern remakes to replace the originals. I say focus less on remakes and more on keeping classic games available on modern hardware.
Personally I’m completely okay with modern remakes so long as the original is still made to be available and accessible on the same hardware as the remake
There are so many 10/10 games from all generations you could spend a lifetime playing through them all. I like remakes personally.
An example of a good remake is Black Mesa (remake of Half Life). It fixes a lot of the gameplay problems and looks beautiful at the same time.
My 10 year old brother plays classic wow with me from time to time and loves it, gives me those old school feelings of making a ton of different characters and trying stuff out and being in it 100% for the journey.
While some games certainly are timeless and would not benefit from a remake (Heroes 3 rings a bell for me) there are also older games that haven't aged well.
And in that case there's nothing wrong with wanting a remake, especially if they can improve upon it. It simply provides more options that suit more people's tastes and having more options is always better than having less.
@@rep8778Half-Life is still a great game.
Playing Black Mesa is fine. But it's a remake of one of the best FPS games in history. It is timeless and it's deranged to say otherwise. If someone is new to the genre, I strongly encourage them to try the original game before trying Black Mesa.
One day MMO devs will understand the importance of the journey. Surely.
I think the journey can be done in different ways personally speaking.
During leveling it was tedious to change gear constantly.
But progressing at endgame I feel is viable and I learned this through elder scrolls online. Leveling and gearing is simple.
It was getting in there and learning dungeons and trials bosses. Advancing my crafting. Things like that were a journey rather than the leveling experience.
Sorry for the paragraph, your comment just made me go down this train of thought.
"I don't like this, because it looks old, therefore, the only reason I could possibly understand for why others might like it is nostalgia." This is the reasoning. Some games are simply FUN. Regardless of the fidelity of the graphics (and yes, I call it fidelity, because "quality" can't really be measured in technical terms. It has to do with stylistic choices, how functional they are, subjective measures etc.) some games are simply fun to play. People don't play Super Mario Bros. or Pac Man today simply because of nostalgia. They play them because they are fun.
This is so accurate, you're gonna get accused of aimbotting.
Gameplay is king
yeah nostalgia has absolutely nothing to do with it, yeah right.
People only play Chess because of nostalgia. If chess came out today, nobody would play it.
What do you mean children today are learning about chess for the first time and then enjoying it?
Lol, rose tinted chess goggles!
"Why isn't there a Chess 2"
On all the private WoW servers with vanilla-wotlk I played, I kept seeing plenty young people who prefer that over retail/other MMOs, just because it's a better game. They weren't even around when WoW launched, yet here they are, playing the classic 3 expansions (sometimes with custom content). So yeah, saying that old WoW is good just because of nostalgia is objectively wrong.
I am 24 went hard in vanilla loved tbc and thought wrath was too much like retail. I was 4 when retail came out
As someone who plays vanilla I don't agree entirely. I only played classic because wanted a different experience compared to retail, but not because it is clearly better. As I got older I don't have much time for the game anymore so some of the outdated systems make it hard to enjoy classic.
People have for years, especially within the WoW community, attempted to portray ''Nostalgia'' as something negative, when it's quite the opposite. Nostalgia is a POWERFUL thing in human beings, and even if something is ''technically flawed'' on various levels from a perspective in the future, looking back at the past, doesn't equal that ''it's bad''. Nostalgia is a powerful feeling we human beings have experienced and cultivated for thousands of years, back during the ''middle ages'', when your grandparents life, your parents life, your life, your childrens life and their childrens life was expected to be ''pretty much similar'' and time almost ''stood still'' due to very few major innovations that really changed the major impact of peoples lives, people didn't view old things as ''past'', they viewed it as something very much present. They didn't view things as ''something that has been'', they viewed it as ''something that isn't here and now''. Meaning: They didn't view sacret or cherished place as something that was ''lost to time'', they simply viewed it as something that just wasn't where they currently were located, and instead of viewing things as lost, they viewed things with a feeling of nostalgia.
damn that totalbiscuit comment hit me in the heart
RIP
He made me learn English, because he was just so much better than all content creators in my native language.
Then I realized he was better than most content creators in general and then he was gone.
Rest in peace, you made my life richer and I will always carry that with me
"That recipe your mom used to make"
She taught me how to make it so....
I'd like to point out one thing. Instead of enjoying the leveling process in vanilla and SoD, players adapted damage meter and got to level 60 in 3 days. And then complained there was nothing to do, because they couldn't really farm some pre-BIS by themselves and not many players were ready for MC.
So, yes, the bane of a WoW player is themself.
It's a dual bane, part themselves and part wowhead
Never played Vanilla, in 04-07. Only started playing from the 2019 Classic launch. There's something just cohesive about the experience that's been lost in expansions. The world was designed to tell stories. With the Xpacs, the first thing they did was abandon that world. Then all that cohesion becomes irrelevant, and only exists as a grind to get through so you can find a majority of the worlds inhabitants (the other players) all funneled into the relatively tiny expansion play area. I guess that's what I value the most in WoW and it's why I only really like Classic, right now.
I think the nostalgic argument is important when trying to objectively review a game in a way to inform others if they would enjoy it or not. Basically saying if you liked this crap when you were a kid you probably still will. If you didn't then tread cautiously. I think it's useful.
This is the only useful piece of advice towards nostalgia IMO.
I think there’s another nuance to it, tho. It’s changing tastes and play styles. I am a huge fan of vanilla but also I’m an OG Pokémon player. And a 90s/00s JRPG fan. As ridiculous as this sounds, I like grinds. In the last 10-15 years we’ve seen an abundance of min max culture and enhanced competitive aspects as gaming tries to enter an esports phase. So it makes sense that optimization and race to the finish or less unnecessary tasks is ideal for the modern audience. But if I reviewed classic wow, I wouldn’t just say it was nostalgia for our own past, but also a reflection of a play style that deteriorated over those 10-15 years. So I think we can’t just say nostalgia for the sake of remembering our childhood (but it is a thing), but also a reflection of a different time and play style. Even on the new Pokémon games, I will vehemently avoid leveling boosts bc I like the slow burn time with raising all my Pokémon, and with wow vanilla I like the small feeling in a dangerous world that requires planning at even the most basic low levels 🤷♂️ Just a thought to consider
I like vanilla and ive never played it back then but ive tried it a couple times in private servers like 17 years ago(lol this sounds alot when i say it like that).I never played the servers that sparked the 2019 rerelease version but i played it in 2019 and it was really fun experiencing the game with such an active community.
The only regret i feel is i never hit 60 and bushed a few times to around 40 to just quit cause friends also stopped but later down while watching Barney's Scarab Lord adventures i saw i missed something really fun.
Like if they ever decide to release a fresh realm ill probably give it a go and try to salvage my past mistake but my Vanilla is a diffrent game and its Diablo 2(Yes now with D2R i get to play it like every 4 months on ladder resets and its fun cause i got some irl buddies joining me everytime).
The game is riddled with Bots ever since a few ladders,people are making money from D2jsp and this more or less ruins the experience but all the people that played the remaster after release and the few seasons after that more or less dropped since they dont update the game(and they changed a few things through the seasons so people were more hooked to play).But yeah its both nostalgic and always fun to go back playing D2/D2R for a few months or even less it both gives me joy because the game is great and it hooks u everytime.The game's not perfect but it has the same charm to me like Vanilla/Classic has to many people and its GRINDY and people hate that they cant get the best items easily(cause they're old,have obligations or just dont know how to farm properly xD).Cant say that Classic experiences this that much it has a big Core of fans that just love it for what it is and dont mind the grind.
@@seanlinehan1136 The thing is, if I went to go play like old Everquest Classic, I can guarantee almost nobody is playing that game like they did on launch. That experience literally doesn't exist anymore, because that playerbase doesn't exist anymore, only the min max organised playerbase in a game that requires teamwork at all times. Much of WoW can be solod so soloers can simply ignore what the other playerbase does, but the moment they enter group content they get hit with the modern gamer who just wants to go go go, read a guide or get kicked, parse scoreboards are everything, raidlog and quit mindset.
Speaking to this phenomenon for old school runescape: I didn't even play RS back in the day, i was a wow player lol i started osrs in 2020. It's the best mmorpg, best long term progression. All other games feel extremely shallow after playing it; they are only fun for a few dozen or hundred hours whereas osrs i have 7k+ hours in and still so much to master. Incredible boss & skilling ladder with new updates every week or biweekly, most of which is voted on by community before passage into game. New bosses and raids every few months with quality of life improvements more frequently. No microtransactions or impactful pay to win, just $7 monthly membership I'm not a nostalgia player cause i didn't even play it back when it was the original game, it kept me playing while other games get boring in 1/10th the time or less. Wow strings you along on endless treadmill, osrs never devalues your effort
I just have a hard time understanding why content creators feel the need to granularize the reasons as to why people like something to such a degree that they feel compelled to attempt to trivialize it.
I love Vanilla World of Warcraft. Period. It met and exceeded my expectations of what an MMO could and should be. And the current designs of how they've handled the game up to the present no longer meet those criteria for me.
I'm an adult now, I have a family to care for, and a full-time job, and I don't have the time to live to win until I die.
But I will contend that the game as it was then is worth preserving and carrying on as it was then. It's a different experience to what the game is now, and I think that it's a valuable enough experience to keep around.
It creates engagement, and a narrative that rewards the creators on a topic that divides people whether that division is artificial or not who knows but seems to be the trend across social media
lol madseason is no better in this discussion, and neither is you.
One thing I do have nostalgia for that is gone is the social aspect of MMO games. I made IRL friends playing games back then.
What, you don't enjoy queuing up as DPS#2490 and running through a dungeon as fast as possible in silence? You must hate MMOs! /s
The games that we grew up on were "novel" or "innovative" and "good" so a lot of people think that this is the standard for "video games I will like" despite these concepts legitimately coming from the developers who produced the game and advertised them as such. Anything that deviates from the formula seems to be labelled as "bad."
If the marketing has changed towards nostalgia, just swap "nostalgia" for "attention" and now you know what gaming companies are looking to grab up. Nostalgia isn't bad per se but if you're not participating in it, you're experiencing fear of missing out. And well, yeah, I definitely felt that when I stopped playing WoW when my nephew tossed my Troll Shaman off a cliff in a high level area just before Wrath of the Lich King and I couldn't find my corpse without dying (when I quit). Regardless, the conflict lies in what Jimmy is talking about - the disconnect between the gaming companies and the playbase. The communities tend to be pretty awesome overall from what I've seen.
Jagex actually dipped their hands into that symbiosis between their games:
OSRS released a handful of quests that are almost direct ports from the 2008+ version(s) of the game that people enjoyed and designed certain bosses and monsters that resemble old tough monsters in the ways you fight them.
Runescape 3 added two bosses completely unique to OSRS into their game too. TzKal-Zuk and Vorkath were given their own unique boss fights because of how popular they are as characters/boss fights in OSRS. The sound track for Zuk in particular is actually a metal remaster of the Inferno soundtrack from OSRS where you encounter him, and it utterly slaps!
"The Glory of Combat" is the track's name, and it slaps *im-possibly* hard! Straight up one of the best pieces of battle music ever composed. Huge credit goes to Adam Bond who did the original OSRS track, but Julian Surma took that and cooked harder than any human has ever cooked before.
You can love something for a lifetime for more than just "nostalgia". It can be because it's awesome and timeless and never stopped being so.
0:11 the video starting with with "nostagia" really put me in a good mood
Asmon has horrible opinions in general. I don't see why people entertain them.
because populist
Because everyone is lonely and needs parasocial vampires to comfort them
He has his moments. But I think that his opinions on video games are, ironically, among his worst and most ill-informed. Sure he's played games for a long time, but for most of his life he played WoW... WoW... and pretty much just WoW, with the occasional Diablo 3 and PoE sprinkled in. He speaks as an authority, but he has very little exposure to gaming in general and up until just a few years ago he wasn't really "a gamer" and moreso "a WoW player".
This really comes out whenever he comments on basically any game that isn't WoW. He has terrible perspectives on anything but WoW because he has no frame of reference.
I wonder when the internet will turn on asmon
@@lorangemagnifique3001 it’s not his frame
Of reference alone; it’s the ignorance and egoism he carries to feel he doesn’t need to experience anything else to know; and that’s so wrong
You can see these forms of player-created challenges in other gaming communities as well. Speedrunners beating games blindfolded, randomisers forcing you to think completely outside of the box to solve the game in unintended ways, Nuzlocke to make Pokémon actually difficult, RetroAchievements just... being a thing that exists (and it now being integrated into the GC/Wii emulator Dolphin since two weeks back). If the developers won't do it the playerbase will, and they always have. The sky's the limit.
Would be interested to hear your thoughts on Folding Ideas'/Dan Olson's "World of Warcraft Classic And What We Left Behind", but I wouldn't be surprised if you've already seen it. Definitely leaves some food for thought.
I absolutely enjoy the randomizer. I've been playing a Legend of Zelda: Link to the past randomizer lately and I totally feel back in love with the game. I mean I enjoyed ALTP in its regular state but adding random loot from chests just makes the game so much more challenging and fun for me.
Some games were made well enough to stand the changes of time (Depending on the game and who one ask that is). I mean, Skyrim was released over 10 years ago and I still see people playing the hell out of that as much if not more than I as I go back to play Elder Scrolls: Oblivion at least once every year or two. Some journeys are just fun, and worth playing through again.
At least, that is how I look at it.
Nostalgia re-captures people who miss the game, and the good gameplay keeps them around.
Thats so cool that you caught your raid leader in 4K making their character lol.
Nostalgia got me to level 10 in classic.
Good gameplay and amazing design got me raiding 3 days a week for 4 years.
so it sounds like you agree that nostalgia is a driving force
Nightmare incursions would be okay if they were 1 time quests instead of repeatables or dailies. The idea of working with the Cenarion Circle to go through the Emerald Dream portals and doing some quests in an alternate version of the zones is pretty cool, if they were 1 time quests they'd need to thin out the mob density a bit, but it could be a cool group questing activity you can do while leveling.
Ideally each of the emerald portal quests would have some sort of story through line that leads you into a new endgame raid, or maybe it could be tied to AQ somehow idk.
My point is just that the idea of incursions is fine, the issue was the implementation which totally disrupted the leveling experience.
18:58 REFRESH ON CLASSIC ERA DEVIATE DELIGHT HYPE GANG
i love that runescape doesnt waste progress, the level cap on skills always will stay 99 there will only be new ways of training it. so even if i quit for years all the progress i made will still be valid and the resources gained will still have value , they still can be used for xp and stuff, even if there are 5 dlc size content updates.
About SoD: I played until 25, raided with my buddies twice every 3 days, and it got boring over the last weeks. When the next phase came out, I managed to level to 34, and it was tedious. I went 6 times into GY, 0 rune drops, no level-up. That's when I stopped entirely.
The problem is that the additional rune skills are often just copied from some expansion, and generally not innovative. A better way would have been to fix the biggest issues of various classes, namely lack of taunt for prot paladins, and bad mana management for hybrid damage dealers. Maybe something to balance PvE dps (nerf warriors, buff hunters).
They could have done it with the runes, by making them provide passive effects. Things like "-50% mana cost for offensive spells" would have fixed a lot. Another would have been to have spells interacting with classes. For warlocks "consume a soul stone to restore x mana."
If they want to add something new, create new dungeons, new raids. They've done that, but with minimal effort. They just converted existing dungeons and turned them into raids. What was actually required were new dungeons and new activities in open world. To tamper with the classes and turn mages into healers and warlocks into tanks is bad. While it helps setting up groups and raids, it breaks class identity.
And rogues were still a menace in open PvP, absolutely broken. And playing feral druid by using sun fire on range all the time was a little sad. It was powerful, but not what a feral druid should do.
screw balancing classes. That kind of thinking is why retail is such a bad game today. Especially the whole balancing for "end game" nonsense... their focus on raiding is another reason why the modern versions of the game got so bad.
@@jaredmcclure1730 No, that's not the problem. Balancing is important, but the key was that every class had its strengths and weaknesses, and even distinct roles and niches.
The reason WoW declined has multiple reasons.
1: Power creep. Power went up exponentially, and caused old content to become obsolete.
2: Increased convenience, examples: Removal of soul shards, ammo stacked a lot (later removed), mages got a table, warlocks got a port-stone and HS wells, rogues didn't require reagents anymore.
3: Streamlined abilities: They wanted to give all classes everything they needed, for example everyone got AoE.
4: Automated mechanics: Abilities got wild, doing things automatically and causing players to lose control of their actions.
5: More sophisticated abilities: All class rotations got more difficult.
What should they have done instead? 1. would require a total change in design direction. 2. had good intention, but removing mechanics was the wrong path to go. Instead of removing ammo, they should have made it an interesting class mechanic. 3. went overboard in the pursuit of equalizing DPS meters. Fair, but it went too far.
4. Bad idea. No automated effects.
5. Annoying change. People have to play piano to play their characters well. It could have been solved better.
Fun fact the same people who think Classic is the best, often want Fresh servers to do the same thing over again, yet faint at the idea of seasons in retail.
Let that sink.
Nostalgia is an important part of human existence, the frisson that helped keep tribes, communities, families together. It's a wonderful element of life. And yes it always makes me smile to mount Ashes of Alar, years after my daughter passed on the roll to me. Dirtiest of casuals now- but it's a strong history of interacting with family.
Also, Legion ftw. Last xpac that kept my daily interest.
I have heard time and time again that my nostalgia for certain things is "wrong" because I have nostalgia for things like Pokemon XY and my Wii U, those people are the biggest fucking killjoys. I had more fun playing that system than I ever did playing anything Nintendo did prior to it, because as a kid that's what I had and I loved it.
The problem with this nostalgia is that nostalgia is fleeting. often times when I replay an old game for the nostalgia, I enjoy it but after a while, I’m kind of over it. when you have a genuine interest in something new and exciting your interest much longer. The nostalgia is once you’ve had your fill of it that’s it. You’re done. By contrast when you were genuinely interested in a type of genre, say MMORPG then when a new game comes out, which is genuinely good you’re going to invest more time into it for a longer period of time.
First - thank you MadSS for the content!
My two cents - some players want new shinies to allow them to better, faster, hit way harder. I like the simplicity of Classic. When I decide to role a new toon, I don’t need to rearrange my UI in order to maximize whatever. I just want to PLAY THE GAME!
I find with the talent trees that I often choose the passive option because I don’t need a whole lot of extra buttons to keep track of in the rotation. I want SOME choices, but it can get overwhelming. I don’t want to have to read five books to figure out how to play a game.
I also HATE HATE HATE leveling out of a zone before I completed all (or most of) the quests in n a zone. That didn’t happen in Vanilla.
Finally, while it does feel nice to one shot things sometimes, it doesn’t feel much like I’m progressing. I like to die if I made a stupid mistake and I like to need to keep an eye on my health to make sure I don’t die.
Right now I’m running a lvl 70 toon through Dragonflight in preparation for WW, and it’s stupid that my health bar never seems to tik down.
The only bad part about nostalgia is the fact that no matter if you do the same things again, you changed and so they are not the same. But sometimes they can be better! Nostalgia is a synonym for love. Why would love be bad?
Nostalgia, marketing etc are temporary, quality game is forever
Nostalgia is what you feel when you hear the Elwynn forest theme. FUN is what you’re having when playing WoW classic. Might of forgotten what that feels like if you still play retail.
The gaming industry and gaming discussion has always fetishized the newest games and the shiniest graphics. It was so bad in the old days that games were simply not republished once their print run was over, the argument from everyone was simply "buy the new sequal!". Which seems insane now we are in the era of games existing available online forever (mostly). But this belief won't die. Because the AAA gaming machine, which also sells latest gaming hardware with tons of technology employment behind it, needs people to keep buying so it can exist (and also make insane profit). 2D games were literally taboo for game publishers 1996-2008. There will always be new graphics fetishizers who need to justify their latest hardware purchases by hating on what came before. Humanity also has this lazy fallacy of believing everything in the past was worse, that everything today is so much better, when the reality is often very different and nuanced than what some history book or wikipedia entry says about reality.
love your WoW takes on these J1mmy vids. would love to see your more thorough OSRS thoughts
5 year old quote from Tips Out (tipsoutbaby) on Fishing with Crendor (Ep46), _"Me personally, I look at Classic WoW not so much from the nostalgia standpoint. I have nostalgia for the original game, but it's actually just the game design itself that I've always been attracted to."_ I think that sums up how a lot of people feel.
I think a lot of people vilify nostalgia simply because they missed out on it all and shit on our parade out of envy that we have these things that bring us such joy.
do people vilify nostalgia?
I suspect people don't believe nostalgia is bad, they just personally don't like the game and don't have the balls to admit they have different preferences.
Personally, I wish the last major MMO release wasn't just WoW again. But I have the bravery to admit I just want the next big thing to come out and just let people enjoy things.
i didn't stop playing wow because i ran out of nostalgia space in my mind's hard drive
i stopped playing because i didn't like the direction it took at some point
so when i could play a version i actually like again, i was there... but not because of nostalgia, i was there because i still like the thing that got taken away from me
which is why i stopped playing again when they took it away for a second time
i feel like this is why so many ppl ask for BC and Wrath servers, because they too want to keep playing what they used to like, instead of a version with changes that made them leave in the 1st place
era realms are nice, but i did like BC and Wrath and wish i could keep experiencing them... instead of having to choose between their content OR a world that didn't get a giant lizard vomiting all over my favorite zones
also pandas, i wish pandas were extinct... not because i hate them, but because i hate the fact that they're in wow
Nostalgia for old MMO stages i associate with the feeling of home, which is a good thing; if people are happy content and feel home, thats all that matters.
I just don't get why nostalgia and enjoyment have to be mutually exclusive. I played Wrath Classic when it came out because I loved it in retail. I had a blast all over again, despite the fact I checked it out due to my nostalgia of it
who has made that claim?
The negative aspect of nostalgia is that it is a strong feeling that carries away fast, thus if you start a game due to nostalgia and the game is meh, quite fast you will get bored. In the case of MMO, having a hype train that is indeed based on nostalgia can cannibalise the audience and affect long term certain games for no meaningful reason.
That being said, on my alt tab i have twow running, I never played vanilla wow and I have tried both retail and twow. Cya in Karazhan.
There's no bad nostalgia, bad is not having nostalgia.
I think the argument is that if a game is relying on nostalgia its popularity may not be a proportionate indication of its quality. This is probably most apparent to new players who get sucked in by the hype but end up disappointed.
Having said that, theres a huge amount nostalgia around classic wow AND it is legitimately a quality game.
it is wild that madseason doesn't understand this, and it is disappointing that his entire audience, except you, doesn't understand that.
It doesn't bother me at all that players enjoy Classic, or that classic is successful for whatever reason. I think the main reason I find myself responding with something like "it's just nostalgia" is when people say the gameplay of classic is "superior in every way" or something like that. The gameplay of classic is timeless and holds up really well, but saying that spamming Sunder Armor or Flash of Light or whatever is "superior gameplay design" is where I have to draw a line and do a reality check. If people enjoy that more, awesome, I'm happy for them. But saying that it's "better than retail gameplay" is pretty coocoo.
Nostalgia sells games. it sells movies. people are more likely to engage with something familiar. companies are capitalizing on it. its the reason we get so many movie reboots. its too much of a risk now to gamble on new ip's. its not shocking and pretty basic marketing info these days.
Suits hate nostalgia because then they can’t sell you something else ( for non-subscription based games)
Devs hate nostalgia because it forces them to either acknowledge their predecessors were better than they are or to meet a higher standard.
Commoners who hate nostalgia repeat the arguments of the above as a status seeking maneuver.
I think you missed the point a bit. Both "The games are only popular because of their previous appeal 20 years ago" and "the games are good" can both be true statements. I don't think Asmon was arguing otherwise, just making an observational statement. Which was technically correct. That doesn't dismiss any similar statements tho.
100%
I am annoyed by madseason and his audience
When Quake 2 Remastered and half Life 25th anniversary update came out
Steam and consoles probably had the biggest boost of people having fun experimenting and playing those 2 games online, and they loved it and are waiting for more
I got huge nostalgia for the days back when pride wasn't a thing and everyone acted normal
True. Games just need to be fun. I think this is why DOOM is remembered so fondly from 10 years ago. The gameplay is so fun compared to other shooters in the last decade
I had a blast replaying Classic. I’m a retail player, but playing through Classic again reminded me it was NOT just nostalgia and there were superior aspects of Vanilla.
Personal story but i think it relates to the video:
I had played WoW only once in my life: it was around either Legion...i made the free trial (the one that lets you play up to level 20 for free).. I rolled an undead rogue, got to around level 15 and....gave up. It felt absurdly meaningless and boring....never thought about it for years, so i may be one of the people with the least amount of nostalgia for the game.
Then one day around 5-6 years ago i ended up on a video from Preach that talked about how vanilla was different ("the legacy of vanilla" was the video), and i thought i'd check this version out...plus everyone at the time was having this discussion about private servers, the possibility of "official vanilla", so i downloaded a copy of the client and edited the realmlist to access a private server..."it's free afterall, i just want to check if the video was correct". I was pretty much sure i'd try it for 30 minutes and uninstall.
...6 years later i still play WoW vanilla/classic as my main game, with the same exact people i encountered on that private server.
Once i got enamored with WoW vanilla i tried Retail and i did get into it,yes, but it would have never happened for me without the journey through vanilla, which made me love the world it's set in, it's little quirks etc.
Every single time I hear the music from Elwynn for a fraction of a second I’m in a different time and it literally moves me in a way I can’t describe with words. That music is why I always end up playing classic again.
I think maybe developers are less inclined to bring back and remake old content because if they are making something new, then the expectations are very malleable - if there's a feature the developers wanted to include but didn't have time to finish, you would never know if they didn't reveal it in a trailer, for example. However, if it's a remake of an old game to run on modern hardware, there are expectations - people know how it should behave at a minimum, so if it's not "improved" it at the very least needs to match the same level of quality as it had during its original launch. This probably puts more pressure on developers, they have less free reign in where the project can go if a particular feature turns out to be very difficult to implement.
The reason why people care so much is because nostalgia wont hold players. Plenty of my friends came back to classic wow to then quit after 3-4 months. They loved the initial nostalgia rush but then quickly realised the game was no longer for them, boring or not what is was now they're older. An MMO, above all, needs more than a massive influx then a massive crash of players.
Nostalgia is a short term retention system. I love going back to the town I'm from every now and then, but hell no do I want to live there.
I only play 2 MMO’s, Star Trek Online & WoW and honestly, I love how they look. I don’t need the game to look like the cinematic, I just want the game to bring me enjoyment.
Nostalgia can give you fantastic experiences and be the driver for great games. Look at Age of Empires : DE, it all started with remastering an old 1999 game for an HD pack, based off a fan mode (the forgotten), and ended up with a strong community with constant content updates anchored in a game released 25 years ago.
I've been playing MOH:AA for over twenty + years, started back in its beta release. I've been playing with a lot of the same guys too.. I play or try to play new AAA titles but nothing compares to my first true online gaming love. It's outdated AF, but it never fails to make me happy, scrimming, pugging and playing on my clans public server is my happy place. -- 4 Life. Nostalgia means nothing if you never left 😊
you are the only YoutTuber I watch react videos for a few simple reasons:
1. first you are not putting up your face on 1/6 of the screen, you are simply showing the whole video and commenting/using it for your own video/topic
2. the videos you are showing are already very interesting and it is not about some sensationalism but for a broader opinion or different view on things
3. you are mentioning the channel you are reacting to a couple of times and really watching the whole video and I respect that! It is how it should be done
I was sceptical when you started doing reacts but you proved me wrong and I am so happy about that. Thank you for the videos and I already subscribed to Jimmy because of you even though I never even touched RuneScape :D Tbh, I haven't played WoW for 5 years now but I am watching every single video from, probably due to Nostalgia! Cheers
Nostalgia can attract an audience, but people stay where there are people to escape with doing something familiar and safe. Why we need to do that is probably the best question to look at. Nostalgia is everywhere because the possibilities of the future aren't appealing anymore. We'll rehash the culture of the last century over and over until the end, and watch it all go down with an 8 bit soundtrack on an ultra high definition screen.
Yep I have nostalgia for 2019 Classic now in addition to 2004 Vanilla, but it is because of the fun and memories had and not just because of life at the time. I was in a guild called Nostalgic for Classic 2019 starting soon after the launch right until I quit mid Wrath, so even the word gives me warm fuzzy feelings.
Just wait til they start rehashing movies with a different ending, gathering up all the content that ended on the cutting room floor & calling it the Cleaners special. I think that's how we got Instant coffee, cleaner sweeping up after a Moccona batch & seeing an opportunity to sell coffee dust.
Instant coffee was a product of the World Wars. But Britain legitimately enjoys instant coffee (consumes 90% of the worlds supply).
people making new games in an old style is cool. nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with also taking an old game and re-creating it in a different direction. but when you are nostalgic for an old game and replay it just for that experience it’s equivalent of visiting your childhood home. You might like to visit and look around, but then you’re done time to move on. Meanwhile, you go to a newer home which has some nostalgic elements that Harken back to your childhood and that’s where you want to live!
Nostalgia only exists if the initial product is good
I think nostalgia gets people in the door, a well-designed game is what makes people stick around, which I think is the case for OSR and WoW Classic
People always forget the 5th version of WoW being Hardcore. I bounce between HC and retail and my family only plays hardcore.
nostalgia does matter. saying "who cares" is a bad argument. nostalgia cant be created, only experienced. retail is dead because there is no nostalgia for it, RS 3 has the same issue. thats why SOD, and classic pop off. because nostalgia. the reason i care about nostalgia causing an influx of players is because a game cant be created with nostalgia implemented to the scale of an mmo.
The music for this video is hugely nostalgic for me. Some snes and WOW classics combined
Played wow 2005, 2007-08, 09-11 and then again in 2021. Consumed media about it constantly. It’s a great game
really appreciate how original your reaction content is, feels like i'm watching one of your videos even though you're reacting to someone else's
this was pure straw man from madseason though, really bad
The song that was playing when I had my first kiss was Some Cut by Trillville.
i think that any game is dying when a) your friends dont play anymore b) you cant make new friend in game anymore.
I think it's pretty simple. If you see a game that looks like a game you've played before and enjoyed, you'll try the new game. I think people are fine with the older graphics for different types of game as long as the mechanics of the game are enjoyable(Loot/builds/replay/etc. whatever you find fun)
Talking about nostalgia while you have secret of mana music playing in the background. That game was amazing.
Diablo 2 is still one of the best games ever made, nostalgia and great re-play ability.
I really, really needed that graphics update to get back into d2 though :).
Everyone: Games just aren't what they used to be
Also everyone: You only like those games because of nostalgia
WHY
I recently binged Warcraft 2 and the expansion had the best time... better than I've had in WoW since leveling in Legion and LK before that. Who remembers the old Chef Boyardee ravioli?
This video belongs in a museum.
I think you'd love playing OSRS. Players have been "Making their own entertainment." the entire time. There's never really a sense of having missed the boat because you're always going to be able to go in and tell your own story as you explore the game at whatever pace you want.
You should 100% become a Runescape channel. I'm so down.
this video felt like 100% straw manning though.
@@snuffeldjuret Do you even know what the straw man fallacy even is? It's not something that you "feel like." A strawman fallacy is a refutation of an argument other than the one being made by the opposition. This whole series of videos and the chain of responses is markedly not that.
@@BigDaddyWes yes
exactly
0:10 this is was is known as nostagia
There are 2 different arguments for 'nostalgia = bad/illegitimate credit'.
1: The product was genuinely not as good as people think but because we had less brains and experience when we were 8 years old or something, maybe that thing we loved when we were 8 wasn't actually that high quality by adult standards.
Note, I do not think this is often the case whenever people raise their nose and cry 'nostalgia' at something..
2: Tourists... People who have little passion or interest in the product, always meddling into things that they have no business in being, criticising everything that isn't exactly how they like it (often due to lack of ham-fisted political messages), accusing all the old stuff that wasn't built for their 'modern audience' to be beneath them, and people who like it have a misguided 'nostalgia' for it.
I think the issue with people saying "nostalgia is the only reason it's surviving" is that it's very dismissive of active work of the developers.
36:15 "Don't watch my old videos guys, it's just nostalgia" dude, I sometimes go back and rewatch your old videos FOR the nostalgia 😂😂
When the NES Classic was announced, I eagerly awaited it's released. Never really bothered with emulators or ROMS so this was awesome to me. Obviously, it sold out before I could even get off work and get to the store to get one. I was bummed. Like really bummed. Everyone told me I would get sick of it after a few days anyways. Well I got one, had a friend mod it with the entire NES library, and 6 years later I'm still playing it all the time. Moral of this story is F everyone who says it's just nostalgia and not as good as you remember. Fighting my shadow in Z2 is always as good as I remember. What's fun is fun.
I think old school runescape did so well because the devs actually care about the project. Jagex still hires people who are passionate about the game, and they do polls in game to see what the players want in the game and if it passes they implement it.
Blizzard and wow on the other hand, (besides season of discovery) just cut copy and pasted everything they already did before.(from what I've gathered, i was a runescape kid not a wow kid lol) I think blizzard just wants to experience schadenfreude and be able to tell the Wow community that "we were right, told you so, you didn't really want wow classic it was nostalgia all along"
That game did well because it was a browser game that could run on a toaster. My friend got addicted to it in the early 00s. He got me to try it and the gameplay was really bad even for back then.
@@rep8778i can agree with you on that, my situation is the opposite of yours actually I got my friends to play runescape recently and they called it a point and click game and I was like "yeah I guess you're right on that one" lmao but the mechanics are different for both games, like the quests in runescape are more fleshed out and detailed but wow quests are a bit more simplified, don't get me wrong I love both games, but they got alot of differences and it's hard to compare the two. I wasn't tryna say osrs was better I hope it didn't come across that way
@@foopakoopa1348 Not trying to flame you homie just telling stories.
On that note I do like how quests are presented in runescape more than most MMOs.
The neckbeards Thu'um has no effect on my nostalgia armor