Are Rolex's Best Days Behind Them? | Submariner 14060
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- The Submariner and it's many copy cats are everywhere, and being the non-conformist I am, it's taken me a decade to come around to them. Out of the dozen of references and over 7 decades of variants, I finally found a Sub that I connect with. Here's why. Join the Best Online Discussion Platform for Watch Nerds: WatchCrunch.com
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Join the conversation on WatchCrunch: www.watchcrunch.com/Max/posts/why-5-digit-was-the-best-generation-for-rolex-10077
The Rolex Submariner no date has the best dial layout ever.
I still have my 16610 Sub purchased back in 1991. Paid little over $3000 and was still considered pretty expensive. Since then, I've purchased other Rolex watches, but my Sub is probably my favorite. It's a classic.
For me, the grail is the 14060M 2 liner. Everything you love about the Sub with the tried and true 3130 movement. One day!
Welcome to the 14060 club. Your ideas are similar to mine. It is the right balance for anyone wanting a sub with vintage and modern appeal. It also isn’t too big for any occasion. Hopefully you didn’t pay too much. I got mine 10 years ago before the hype for less than half retail. Probably the luckiest purchase of my life.
Awesome, I bet it's aged well in that decade!
It’s a beaut!
Agree that the 5-digit sub is my favorite. Has elements of the old true tool watch days, with elements that make them stand the test of time better and have some elements of a luxury watch. You also summarized the maxi era very well. It really does look like they just saw where fashion was going and bolded everything.
Yay I feel like tudor is carrying that torch now
Oh yes! The mere exposure effect influences everything in our lives! From our music tastes, what we think is “stylish”, and of course our taste in watches! 😱 it’s so interesting isn’t it! I’ve noticed big differences in myself as well moving country, and my tastes and preferences just because of wxposure! It’s always fun to remember we aren’t rational, autonomous, or very unique! 😜✨ Anyways. This is neither here nor there. Fantastic video as always! WHAT A WATCH! ❤️✨✨✨
Haha thanks Gringa! We are so impressionable 🤣
My perfect dive watch is one of two: Tudor BB58, Oris Aquis...
Just a small correction. The M model came out around 2000. They didn't get the model with the new movement COSC certified until roughly 2007. So M models from 2000 to 2007ish, have the new movement and only 2 lines.
Correct!
The 14060m is THE perfect Submariner in my opinion.
The movement upgrade is nice 👍
I agree. As long as it doesn’t have 4 lines though.
Agreed! The 5 digit subs or the 16570 Explorer II are on the top of my list for neo vintage goodness.
It's a really cool watch that many would love to have in their collection. The problem I see is that you have to pay almost 13,000 for a good one with box and papers. And then when you wear the watch on your wrist, it feels a far cry from that price point. If you were lucky enough to get a 14060 at normal prices, then yes, otherwise no.
Good time to get one! I just picked up a 2005 14060m unpolished with box and papers for under $9K USD.
Good points. I really appreciate my exp 2 circa 2007, for similar reasons…the bracelet, although a bit squeaky and loose, is crazy comfortable and still looks good…. It is modern enough, while retaining the charm of an era gone by.
Yeah you can't beat vintage sizing 👍
@@WatchCrunchOfficialbest review, thank you!
I couldn’t agree any more. I had a 16710 Coke w/out solid end links which fit amazingly and just disappeared on my wrist. Not so much with the newer heavier Rolexes which I eventually sold.
My 14060 is en route to me now and I can’t wait!
I love my Certina DS Diver with the Powermatic 80 🤷🏾♂️
Max, I think we have very similar tastes! I just acquired my one and done Rolex. A 14060m from 2006. "the last of the best"
Sweet! Congrats Tom 👏
I bought a 14060M 2 liner (modified newer movement, but not COSC) and after 3 months, changed for a 114270 Explorer.
The 14060 2 liners _are_ lovely in design, and arguably give you the best of neo vintage! I enjoy the same charms in the Explorer, but with the smaller profile.
Both are superb and whilst the bracelets are indeed much lighter compared to modern Subs and Explorers (also owned those) they are charming and still extremely sturdy.
Same for me , 114270 after à 2002 date sub. I like the 14060 but , i have a problem with small indexes and also the saphir cristal . Dépends with the light , but often time i see nothing on the dial .
I was issued a Tudor Submariner as a combat diver . When I got to my first team , everyone had Rolex Submariners. This was 1968 so 5513 was the watch of the day . I finally bought a 5513 in the main PX in Da Nang, South Vietnam. I paid $240 for that watch and still have it in my collection W/ box & papers . I've since acquired a few moreover the years and in my opinion, they just keep I getting better . I bought a 124060 about a year ago yo ad to my sub collection . It's probably the one I wear the most . That and my 116610LN. Anyways. good video. Love my subs !!!
Wow how very cool Tim! Even with inflation that was a great deal. Glad you held on to them
Thank you for your service Tim! I wore some cheap fashion watch when I served my time, but credit where credit’s due, the thing took beatings like a boss. I’m looking forward to wearing my Tudor 9411/0 when I go back for reservist in my unit next year 👍🏻
I'm gonna contact Don Shipley for his thoughts on US issuing Tudor/Rolex as I know the truth. Only issued Rolex were the UK's SF during the 70's and noted in Rolex records/archives.The PX purchase wasn't an issued item, it was private purchased like my groceries..
@@auxiliary4023Maybe learn to read I was issued a Tudor. I purchased the submariner at the PX . 2 completely different things . Wow !!!
I wish Rolex would go back to their thinner models. They seem much bulkier now.
I'm always amazed at how thin vintage watches are!
@@WatchCrunchOfficial it feels that the big watch era is starting to slow down
After many sleepless nights as you, I went for the 14060M but 2 lines on the dial. This is the sweet spot for me. I preferred the updated movement and the fact that every element of the watch is never going to lose function with time. I would prefer the 14060 to the 14060M 4 lines though, apart from the dial, the reason being the rrr rehaut.
Great video, Max. The 14060 is my second favorite of Rolex references. The 5513 is my favorite as it is the epitome of a dive watch. But my absolute favorite is a blue dial Omega Seamaster Pro during the Pierce Brosnan Bond years, particularly the automatic movement.
For me, working lume trumps patinaed lume. I'd also rather have the 3130 movement over the 3000.
So my choice would be the 14060M two-line version. It's that sweet spot that has the 14060's charm with the upgrades it needs.
The older ones look more classic, IMO. I like the 16610 and 1680 over the current version.
Thats one of the cleanest sub, but they go for $10k-$12k…too much for a old sub.
I own this Sub. I love it. But admittedly, unlike Max I didn't analyze over it too much. Once I tried it on it took me 5 minutes to hand over my credit card. A future classic. I've had my Sub for 4 years now & have since added a BB58 and a date Sub and a 40mm Sea-Dweller to my collection, however I wear this Sub the most. It's still the most comfortable and versatile dive watch in my collection. .
I have a 5 digit Seadweller 16600 which is very similar with a date and no cyclops, its a bit thicker but wears very well, imo its the ultimate tool diver like this reference you have. Congrats on the acquisition.
Personally I struggle with how the bracelet gets so loose on the older Rolexes. I love the tightness of the solid links in the more modern Subs, they all loosen up eventually but nowhere near as much. I'm also a big fan of the ceramic bezel, looks stunning in certain lights and is so durable.
My everyday diver is a Seamaster Professional 300 I bought in 1999, it was my first expensive watch, I love and will never sell it .
I know the feeling. I worked in a watch shop and handles Rolexes. I was only a kid but was surprised by the rather 'cheap' feel of the watch. Yes, they were genuine. I gues I expected more. It just felt ordinary. Then I tried an Omega sea master. Wow, the wavy lines and that bezel turn was solid, quality. I still dream of a navy sea master. I'm adding that to my collection one day.
If I did buy a rolex, it would be the oyster perpetual (no date complication). It's pure to the original rolex and like you I wonder why deep divers would want a date function.
The bracelet looks fantastic with the watch, I really like how a bit of stretch looks on an old watch bracelet but the thing that does it for me are those old magnificent stamped clasps. Great vid again Max 👍
Thanks Morgan! I'm trying to warm up to the bracelet 😅
100% agree. The best of all the worlds. Vintage and timeless feel combined with modern reliable and dependable technology. The perfect watch. Love my 5 digit sub.
The Blancpain Fifty Fathoms is the most iconic dive watch and the one you should have bought instead of that status watch.
So good! These things make a BB58 on bracelet seem overly heavy and slab sided. 5 digit is peak Rolex for me. And while the bracelets feel flimsy compared to modern ones, they were strong enough to survive actual life as tools. In my opinion, the heavy/overbuilt modern bracelets really serve little purpose other than placebo. Especially since they life a very safe life comparatively
I'm learning to trust the vintage bracelets 😅
@@WatchCrunchOfficial good enough for a paratrooper = good enough for my daily desk diving and vacation beach drinking haha
A TUDOR IS A POOR MANS ROLEX. THERE IS NO COMPARISON
@@SIZZO76Lol poor people do not spend 3k on watches. Pound for pound the up to date Tudor divers are better than all of the older Rolex watches by a long way. Sadly most Rolex wearers today are those of low esteem who need a Rolex watch to elevate their status.
@@resjon7981 Tudor fanboy spotted 😂😂😂Tudor is a fake Rolex 😂😂😂😂
You missed an opportunity to wear your James Bond speedo and bow tie for that opening shot. We know you own both!
Damn, the secret is out!
Love this watch I have 3 modern Rolex and went for the 1460m for same reasons you liked it. Mine is a 2001 with 2 lines of text. You mention that the m didn’t have two lines but it does ? So you are incorrect there. The early m versions had updated movement but Rolex didn’t get the certification line on the face till 2007. So I have best of both worlds. Vintage two line text on face but better movement. This is the one to go for out of the range. Hope this helps you. 👍🏼
Great review, lovely editing and keep them humour coming Max!!
Thanks Lawrence 😊
This is my grail watch, i’m
saving for a 1995 manufactured date as it’s my birth year and love the design.
Excellent video and appreciated your comment on the Submariner 14060 in my opinion, very classic and iconic from the original Submariner since 1953. I have the Submariner 124060 41mm and I like the modern Submariner for the improved performance however, I’m looking for the vintage Submariner 14060 due to the fact that they’re closer to the original vision of the watch and represents the link between the old and the new, in my opinion.
Great review! You can’t beat a 5-digit Submariner
It’s worth mentioning that the 14060m ‘2 liner’ has the same clean dial, a more robust 3130 movement with a balance bridge and Breguet overcoil. The 14060 doesn’t advertise it’s COSC certification because it’s not COSC certified. And while the early 2-liner 14060m’s weren’t technically certified either, they are the exact same watch with the exact same movement that eventually WAS certified later. Really, the 14060 only truly comes down to whether or not you want tritium. Because the M’s don’t have it at all. Great video! But for those of you trying to home in on which reference is the one to go with - that’s important info to be leaving out IMO.
I have a 5-digit Sub and it’s fine. But to be honest, I’ll take a Tudor BB58 any day.
Have to agree with you, this is the perfect ref IMO.
Thanks John 👍
Yeah, i wasn't so attracted to a new sub, and don't want vintage, so BB58 hit my sweet spot
Can't go wrong with a Black Bay!
No matter how much we hate it, us watch enthusiasts will (at some point in our journey) go from hating the crown to loving the crown; its an inescapable cycle. Rolex doesn't do much; but what it does do, it does exceptionally well. The 5 digit subs and datejusts are just perfect everyday watches.
Yeah it's so funny how Rolex has polarized people
I went from loving to hating, to loving, to owning, then selling and back to hating. :D
Congratulations on the new watch Max! Totally agree that the 5-digit Sub is the way to go and this no date 14060 is the crème de la crème for sure! I’m not in a position to buy one myself but if I were, this is the Sub I’d get, no question. It’s the last Submariner to retain any semblance of tool watch. The 6-digits are wonderful modern watches but they just don’t capture that romantic feeling of the previous generations.
The classic subs are great. However I very much enjoy my 124060 "41mm" no date sub and I'm sure it will increase in character as the years go by.
Yes
I own that watch and call it “the Pancake XL”.
I own that watch and call it “the Pancake XL”.
Great review. Love how the bezel in some lights is starting to fade
Yes forgot to mention that! Love the matte bezel
@@WatchCrunchOfficial yeah it’s a great feature to mature alongside the dial. My tudor sub now a lovely grey/green/blue colour. Unique
I would take an aluminum bezel sub over a new ceramic any day.
Exactly Curtis 👌
I really like the "selected all and hit bold" analogy.
The Seiko "62MAS recreation" SPB543 is the new Submariner (white on black, size limited to 40mm, no break in index symmetry, and a beautiful case)... without the fear of breaking something, I agree
I own a 1974 Tudor Sub 7016; but its water resistance can no longer be ensured. No matter, with the new Seiko SPB543, the pleasure is the same.
The 36mm Tudor Submariner 75090 for smaller wrist 😊
My 14060 is the perfect watch for me.
Great choice! You are right on so many points; A ceramic bezel never added anything to any watch, the dial is clean without the novella (Fantastical, Punctilious, Supercalifragilistic Chronometer) above the six O'clock marker, I will take old episodes of Arrested Development over Game of Thrones any day.
Ha ha, I'm so glad that someone else has finally said it - why do divers need a date window? Each to their own, I'm not a fan of a date function at all on watches but I get it, it's the modern world, very few of us go diving in our watches. Divers watch is now just a 'style' of watch. This is my favourite Sub as well. The modern one's are just too 'flashy' for me. The 14060 is a Rolex that still knows it's a 'tool watch', and while I'm not going diving with it, I definitely want to wear the sh*t out of it. You wouldn't do that with one of these modern variations.
The 14060 is a great Sub. I have a 16610 and a 126610LV. As much as I like my five digit Sub, I actually greatly prefer the modern Starbucks. When Rolex redesigned the six digit Sub, they did it right. It wears so much better than the 116610, which I never liked.
I sold my Steinhart . I just did not feel right wearing it . So i saved up . It took me over a year but I got a tudor BB 58 . In very happy with it .
One problem. $10k for a watch w/ hollow end links makes no sense.
Love the model and agree that it's elegant. Congrats on the purchase.
Cheers Craig, I'm loving it 👍
About 3 years ago when I got into watches I wanted a sub Tudor or Rolex but with the price gouging it’s just sad now I’m going after a omega AT
Can't go wrong with the AT
Very nice coverage, Max! I like the last version of the 14060M, random serial numbers. This is the last of the classic crown guard subs. A perfect match would be one of the first 5512's, from '59-'60.
Good call! Can't go wrong with that whole era
The best ever Rolex Submariner reference IMO.
Want to hear your thoughts on the Christopher Ward Aquitaine. Seems like that perfect balance of affordability and refinement.
Great video Max. This Submariners dimensions would be what I would be looking for. Thanks for pointing out some differences between ref #'s and options. Great shots as always 👌
Perfect dive watch in a one watch collection is the Rolex 124060 sub. Love that the maxi case s no more. Think a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms is a better watch but just not as durable, so makes for a worse daily piece.
The “select all, bold” is spot on.
😉👍
The new No Date Sub is about the most timeless and perfect watch ever made.
Tudor Submariner 75090 if you want half the price and you’re ok with a date window! Blue bezel, black dial. It’s amazing
Not all 14060M variants were cosc certified. I had a “two-line” M variant back in 2004.
The "non-clicking" bezels use a flat spring that pushes the bezel up a little. To turn the bezel, you have to push down on it a tiny bit then twist. Dont know if there are teeth that lock the bezel from rotating when its being pushed up. Though possible it can be pushed down and twisted unintentionally, but unlikely. With time, once the flat spring becomes too flat and doesn't provide enough upward pressure, the bezel becomes loose in both directions. The modern unidirectional bezel is a definite improvement.
Appreciate the education on subs. Love your simple video style.
Thanks man, cheers 🍻
Epic🙌🏻 two liner dial, with some fade on the insert. Nice watch, feels like air on the wrist, so comfy.
You described it perfectly 👌
14060 and 16610 still have the quintessential Rolex case shape and looks with the "spiky" crown guards. New cases are like Breitling SuperOcean with those new kind of fat crown guards.They look ugly to me. If you take a comparison from the car world the old ones are like old air cooled Porsche 911 1964-1997 or Jaguar E-Type mark I with absolute classic, perfect shape and the newer models just got bigger, fatter and uglier. Old air cooled Porsche examples cost more than new these days because everyone wants the classics. Cheers.
Agreed! The 5 digits were more tool watch like not bling bling type. Classier.
Perfect dive watch for me is the Omega Planet Ocean 2500. Thanks Max. 👍⌚️
looks great!
but I've owned a neo-vintage explorer before, the daily fit, old style bracelet, and the maintenance is just too much, and not up to today's standard. As much as i love the looks of it, i had to let it go. Got the new 126610 and now i'm happy!
Best. Watch. Ever. Made. Period.
Just curious: with Rolex prices trending down and a recession looming, why did you decide that now would be the best time to buy the submariner?
I wouldn't buy anything right now.....I'd wait patiently for the impending collapse because the future is looking pretty scary. I would love to see the 14060 to get back to realistic prices.
@@dansig123 Pretty soon we will need that money to buy gas and food thanks to FJB
Congrats on the new addition! 2 liner NDS T
I agree with you that Rolex best days are behind them. The 5 digit is good but the 114060 bracelet is nicer. The BB58 is warmer but the 114060 is colder for a reason. It is meant to be safe queen. 😂 There is going to be another top tier watches in the next following decades. Rolex will not lose value but they will be left behind.
Omega and Patek going to dominate the mainstream brands but the micro brands are going to be pinnacle of watch collecting.
I love the 5 digit reference. I have a 16610 and it’s perfect for me. I love the slimmer case shape and tritium but it’s still durable enough for my daily. I wear my sub every single day. Doesn’t matter what I’m doing, I’m always wearing it. Occasionally I’ll wear something else for a few hours but always come back to my sub.
I hope this will be that watch for me 😃
I've two rolex, a Datejust from my 25th birthday in 76 and this 14060 I bought in 1998. For me they are not luxury watches, I wear my Submariner almost every day and nobody can tell that it is 25 years old. I swim with it, I ski with it, I don't think about it. It's a tank that goes everywere.
Regarding the modern Rolex, the word is "too much". Too big, too shiny, too expensive... too bad😉
I have oris diver sixty five, perfect every day watch for me!
Love the content and you’re so good at this. Great authentic vibe 👍🏽🌟
Thanks man, I feel like I'm finding my voice/style after a couple years. Appreciate you 👍
The Sub is the best Blancpain Fifty Fathoms homage yet :)
The nicest part of this watch is its resale value.
Congrats bro! Such a great piece 😍
Think of a diver filling our his paperwork pre/post dive needing to double check the date before writing it in ink and in triplicate.
This vid encapsulates my view of Submariners exactly. I can’t warm to the new ones. I bought a 1967 5512 no date last year and it is superb but I agree I get a little nervous when I wear it.
You have great taste Richard! Cheers 🍻
Great video. I have the pre-ceramic date sub but newer than the one in the video (does not have the lug holes) I wish listed for the 41 sub (no date) for the reassurance feeling it packs
Great video! However, I think you made a mistake here. I opted for the 14060m myself, but there are both two line and 4 line versions of it. I opted for the 2 line version.
Learned something 👍
Waiting for someone to say this. For me it is the better version as it also has the 3130 movement and Breguet over coil which Rolex took out of the 14060 to save money. Only downside is they moved away from tritium so you won’t get that lovely custard patina over time.
I concur. Great everyday reliable watch you’ll ever need imo.
I love my 124060 and enjoy all the modern upgrades that it comes with. The glidelock is clutch when I find my watch is too loose or too tight.
The bracelet is very good on newer models 👍
Love your videos man! This ones a goodie!
I’ve owned the 14060 and a 114060. In short, yes, the 14060 is the last of the best Subs. Are the new Subs technically better based on specs, materials, performance? Yes, but they lack character.
Maxi dial was actually introduced originally with the Kermit in 2003 - heads up!
I have an older style GMT BBB with aluminum bezel and I agree the watch wears differently to the new models. I like them both as like I said they are different ☺️
Our best days with Rolex are behind us. Not being able to buy one is pointless. What point are they ?
I have a '91 I got to celebrate my 30th. It's stunning, but admittedly has pretty much the same bracelet Rolex used since the 70s. Still, I don't worry about the bracelet when I wear the watch.
Inherited one from my grandpa, the Lume has “expired” I didn’t do anything regarding that, I feel proud of having it- however I’d rather die than selling it.
Yes Ssiiirr. Ahh my first true love the Submariner 14060. I bought my first Rolex in 2003 and the 14060 was it. Yes, I got it at the AD at discount (good old days). I chose this one because it was the closest to Sean Connery's Watch in Dr. No. Wasn't a fan of the 16610 or the newer Maxi Dials and Maxi Case.
2nd Rolex was the Pre-Ceramic Daytona 18k Whit Gold with black dial and Arabic Numerals. Different kind of watch but they felt very similar I loved the shape of the lugs and case.
I've tried on the modern Rolexs and can objectively say, they wear nothing like their older counterparts. It's literally night and day. Not my cup of tea and frankly, I don't need to be playing AD games or be put on a imaginary waitlist for a Tool Watch. No Thanks.
You have great taste! The neo vintage years were magic 👌
@@WatchCrunchOfficial ty ty sir. Yeah magic indeed. But, I will say this. The Modern GMT master Root beer. OMG that is just sexy. Much better than the old school root beer (clint eastwood model). I got to try one and see it in person. It was just beautiful. But the Modern Day Subs, Daytonas, all meh.
Can you tell me what strap you had on the watch please
What’s the reference no. Of the date version of this gen?