PTSD and ADHD connections | ADHD | Episode 79
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- There is a strong association between PTSD and ADHD, and they share many symptoms. We know more about how ADHD contributes to developing PTSD than vice versa. Helping individuals requires us to sort out when one or both condition is present.
I really love your content and find this topic interesting, especially as an ADHD adult with plenty of past trauma. All I ask is you either speak louder or get a microphone nice and close so I can hear you better ☺️ lol. thanks for the content
I appreciate the feedback. I did buy a microphone a few months ago, but have recently changed my whole setup when I moved out of San Francisco at the end of January. I will work on microphone placement!
Thank you for sharing your experience and expertise. I'm beginning to look at PTSD, having been correctly diagnosed ADHD as a mature (or immature adult, depending on one's point of view).
I find the denial of ADHD and the blame casting onto mother irritating. Having consumed too much info over the last 3 years since diagnosis about ADHD and cluster b personality types I ended up seeing a TH-cam talk by Sam Vaknin, a self confessed narcissistic academic/therapist (who also appears high in psychopathic traits and highly manipulative, from my armchair diagnostic position).
He is also a mother blamer, linking bad mothering to ADHD/ASD, narcissism and through to ASPD.
It is clear I come from a line of diverse neurodiverse people on both sides who have been masking behind some reasonably elevated IQ and quirky, though generally pro-social enough behaviours. Within the neurodivergence we have survived as best we could, finding the homogenised 'neurotypical' populations ways far more traumatic than our own ways. That being said the issue is family members ending up on the edges of society by either moving physically far to the side or up to the top of organisational pyramids, where one is more surrounded by either failed or successful cluster b personality types.
However to be in the middle is equally bad as then you are surrounded by middle of the road neurotypical gangs who en masse become psychopathic, aggressive and manipulative if you transgress their social constraints that, as neurodiverse people, are impossible to navigate successfully.
Despite all that we're NOT a bad bunch with bad mothers self perpetuating our own misery in each successive generation. Nothing like what Sam Vaknin tries to convince others of.
It's frustrating because I listened to a lot of his talks and did get a great sense of a lot of things from him, but he's so manipulative within his discourses. Watching people falling for it in the comments is quite disturbing.
It's often the case that an expert seems to have a great grasp of the basics and some good novel insights. But then they switch subtly from reasoned sciencey logic to an increasingly unsupported personal view. If you follow there, you're becoming a cult member. I've seen it over and over again in lots of fields. If they've written a book it normally transitions from refreshing insight to their own unsupported ideas from chapter 3 or 4 for some reason. I often end of thinking that they should have stopped there. Then the book would have been amazing, insightful and above all safe for consumption. But perhaps stopping there wouldn't satisfy their ego and also possibly wouldn't feel like enough of a book?
So now I prefer to listen to people like you who obviously monitor your personal dark triad better than the 'stars' of the field and work faithfully within sciencey ways and leave out the gimmicky presentation.
I don't even care that you haven't got a proper microphone x.
The last line about the microphone was an impulsive joke, but I realise after publishing it that it sounds like I'm digging at Jacob's request, so apologies if it comes across like that Jacob. Of course the video would be more perfect with upgraded sound. I have a long list of blurting out things like that and getting in trouble for it. I just meant that your video still has a lot of value even with the imperfections.
Thanks Doc, I've been looking for this information forever...
Also, thanks for the insurance company reference. I'm a retired therapist and that is where I learned that the would is run by insurance companies...
It sounds like you REALLY care about your patients...which, sadly, is somewhat unusual...
I think that lots of doctors and therapists care, but not all of them show it very well, and some of them simultaneously care but also care about getting home on time for dinner or whatever other priorities they have.
Thanks for commenting on Gabor Mate`s book. It is a very interesting and well written one, but trauma response can't be the only or major cause in all cases of ADHD. Its good to be reminded by an expert such as yourself that trauma response is not the only, or the major cause of ADHD in all cases. My uneducated guess is that complex trauma can, however, exacerbate it significantly and vice versa.
I have ADD-like problems and CPTSD, but early trauma included 2 major head injuries. I might even be autistic. None of this was ever acknowledged, let alone evaluated or treated and that lead to more trauma, more head injuries, and sometimes to abusive and exploitative relationships and employment situations. It is a vicious circle. That's the reality of it.
It's my opinion and experience that d.i.y. practices including somatic, breathwork, meditation, and writing help a lot. I'm also going to try to learn some cognitive/behavioral skills. But professional assessment and treatment/therapy would surely help even more and would have prevented a lot of suffering and dysfunction had these been undertaken, ever, but especially early on. I think now I might be too old, and too broke ( in more ways than one).
Keep cracking those jokes, Doc.
Laughing with people is always good medicine.
I'm a 71 year old, and I can tell you it is NEVER too late to start taking care of yourself.
I'll also say that I put myself in the hands of a local therapist. I saw her for several years with only few gaps (insurance related) and eventually I think she got tired of me and diagnosised me with Cyclothymia...which at the time I agreed could be possible due to the sleep disturbance...
HOWEVER, I really didn't want to take an anti-phychotic drug, but I did take one for several years and it really only helped slightly...then I actually diagnosed myself with ADHD. Saw a psychiatrist who valadated that diagnosis...Now, I'm taking Adderal (because that is all that Medicare will pay for) and I feel about a thousand times better. My memory is better, my mood is better, my focus is better...my sleep is better...it is amazing when you have the correct diagnosis, and the correct medication...and the right therapist...
@@genevabecker8441 wow, that's so encouraging to hear! Thanks.
Great info. Deep. Thank you so much.
Thank you!
The DSM-5 is a absolute mess that caters to Insurance companies & pharmaceutical companies, the head of creating the DSM-5 was also creating a medication working for a pharmaceutical company & some of the Dr's on the board either walked out or were kicked out for disagreeing with the result of this conflict of interest.
She was creating a drug to treat addiction, so anyone who takes pain medication or opioid of any kind is an addict. If a 80 yr old a with zero history of touching addictive substances or addictive behavior gets bone cancer & is dying, she is EXACTLY the same as someone using heroin for "recreational" purposes!!! So her new drug is appropiate in ANY situation where opioid are used!! This is insanity.
There are more examples than I can list.
So how does one treat PTSD in a child when it's based on the DSM-5? Give them medication for ADHD?
The symptoms overlap & why has PTSD risen in children along with ADHD? Depression? Anxiety?
WATCH " Social Experiment: Children 2.0" & this current generation of youth becomes clear.
Thank you for sharing this! I got off 25yrs of anti depressants 3.5yrs ago with gut healing protocols. Today I got unofficially diagnosed with ADHD. 🤯 What ADHD IS and the shitty narrative we've been sold by the cabal is insane! My whole life behaviour now makes sense and I have been holistically treating the wrong thing. I've got a new rabbit hole to go down to treat this now. Thankfully I'm on the right path now. And of course I WON'T be going down the Big Pharma poison path.
Clonidine helps me well
Say a shrink caused me ptsd by misdiagnosing me with bipolar kidnapped me for a week then interrorgated me for hours and my avodance is avoiding getting stuck in rooms with doctors how do you work around this to get help?
It may be useful to start with patient oriented groups like NAMI. If you can talk about your experiences with others who might have had similar trauma, that might be of some help. Eventually people that you trust may recommend therapists or doctors that they trust, so you may feel less wary talking to them.
Gabor Mate says that trauma, and in particular, the mother's inability to form a secure bond with the child due to her own issues, is the cause of ADHD, not diagnosable PTSD symptoms in the child per se.
Yeah and he's wrong. Mate is spreading terrible things whether he means too or not.
How to distinguish between trauma such as CPTSD, which is avoidant as you say, from schizoid personality disorder, which is also avoidant?
Certainly the presence or absence of significant trauma can help diagnostically. Also, while avoidance is one feature of CPTSD, there should also be symptoms from the other clusters, and the re-experiencing and hyper-arousal features would be much more likely with PTSD than schizoid PD.
@@DrJohnKruse What complicates things are comorbidities, which seems to be 3 on average, based on literature. And the genetic basis is same for pretty much all mental disorders, with possibly the weakest link being GAD. So, I'm seeing CPTSD in someone, who is hypersensitive, born hypersensitive, had neuro-dermatitis as a 3mth old. And then I'm seeing genetics of SZ on maternal uncle side. I'm also seeing ADD in both the patient and his mother, who also seems to have BPD based on DSM criteria, or traits of it. So I'm inclined to believe it is SzPD, or prodroma SZ, but also I'm recognizing ADD as well as SAD. These comorbidities complicate things enormously.
Neuro-dermatitis
CPTSD as a result of it and other frictions
ADD
SzPD
SAD
depression
Anosognosia
Prodroma
Selective mutism
Communication Disorder
Oppositional Defiance
The list could go on and on..
So we are talking of ADHD symptoms from different causes.
Yes, that's a reasonable framing of it.
Nah.. hypervigilance is different from hyperactivity. One make you sharper ("on the look out" sort of for dangers) but jumpy and easily startled. And the other make you less focused and is a heightened energy focused on fun, adventures or dangers. Hypervigilance is not focused on fun, but only on survival. While hyperactivity can make you take dangerous risks. I am even more hyperactive now than when my ptsd was untreated and bad. The safer and healthier I feel the more hyperactive I get.. 🙈😂 because now I'm rested (no nightmares nor flashbacks) and then my adhd blood fully. 😂
Is the treatment with amoxetine or guanfacine for CPTSD for life or limited in duration?
We have virtually no hard data on what would be optimal duration of treatment. My general thought is that if symptoms have been controlled/absent for several months to a year, then it would be reasonable to taper down or off the dose and see if the medication is still necessary.
I've heard that 5mg olanzapine is given off label for both PTSD and SAD? And that for night terror associated with PTSD hydroxizyn is prescribed at dosages up to 60mg?
Yes, some prescribers are trying such approaches with patients who have these conditions. Again, not much data to either support or refute the efficacy and potential risks of such regimens.
I take olanzapine for cptsd. Helps greatly. I also have adhd.. Have had it since i eas a kid but refused meds.. Only now am i looking at starting some for good to try gain some control over my life. Its brutal cycle
@@lanashowler5906 what is your dosage of olanzapine and for how long?
@@Burevestnik9M730 5mg. X 1 in pm. And ive been taking it for a yr. +
@@lanashowler5906 For how long do you plan to be on it?
My 2nd question is why ADHD is not recognized in Europe as a mental disorder?
I think this is an issue of degrees rather than absolute differences. Psychiatric organizations in the US, Canada, the UK, and Europe all recognize ADHD is a condition, and good research is being conducted in ADHD in all of these regions. At the same time, there is marked ignorance of, and outright denial regarding ADHD in all of these countries, including in the general public, the medical field, and even among mental health practitioners. The extent of this rejection is probably higher in most European countries than in the US. I think a variety of cultural attitudes are at play - Americans in general are more eager to use medications to treat problems, and to try to comprehend mental health issues as brain problems. There may also be greater tolerance for behaving differently in Europe than in many parts of America today.