Yeah, that's me. I had people in my life who would take advantage of this trait of mine by constantly changing topics during serious conversations until we lose the trail of thought and forget where we started at. Made it easier for them to avoid addressing issues. I'm sure I'm not the only person who experienced that. Beware the mind-bogglers.
@@solvated_photonif you have adhd and certainly some of the topic changing is by you and if you have adhd freinds the cutting you off and changing topics might not be malicious ecause I do it all the time. I don’t meant to do it, I just get very excited and loose my focus. Everything feels so urgent
@@jonahblock rightly said but the person I am speaking about is from a foreign culture and demonstrated a low understanding/tolerance for me as a person only after they gained citizenship. I was a means to certain ends for someone and I’ve survived stuff I keep between myself and God for right now. I left after she assaulted me in front of our kids for asking her mother not to go through my personal belongings anymore. Back on subject though, I am guilty of the stuff you mention. It’s taken me years to work on catching myself on things like compulsively talking over someone else. The struggle for me is that I am always fairly sure I will forget certain things I want to say in response if I don’t say them right away. I’ve gotten more comfortable with that possibility, better at biting my tongue, and I do my best to give people my “undivided attention.”
I have always done the spaced out daydreaming staring into space thing. It has only gotten worse. I can totally depersonalize for many hours at a time into my own mind. I have no social relationships anymore. I just usually sit in the dark and watch youtube. Commenting on videos helps me engage reality
Commenting on videos is only going to get you so far... You really can’t substitute social interaction, where meaningful connections are made/reinforced, for the comments section on TH-cam (or any online social media, for the rest of y’all) - they’re not interchangeable whatsoever. You might already be aware of this, and in that case, I apologize for being redundant. I genuinely hope you find a path that leads to healing, my friend!
Cognitive Disengagement, to me, seems more like a defense strategy in a world that no longer makes sense, and the feeling of helplessness in the individual to do anything about it than it does a disease. JMO.
I'm sure that would cover some people. But the majority of cases that have been researched are in kids who aren't particularly depressed, more slow and dreamy, and to my knowledge we're not seeing higher rates in war zones or other environments that might particularly induce helplessness.
Mental illness gets complicated when most people have comorbidities and there are alot of external factors. Psychology is a difficult science to pin down but like also think of it this way-judt because something external could trigger this behavior doesn't mean that the ADHD wasent the precourser that allowed someone to do this as the coping mechanism. Brains are so complicated lol
Fascinating video. set to 1.25x speed or more if needed. as someone with strong inattentive symptoms I found it easier to pay attention with a slightly faster cadence. thanks for the insights✌️
I would even argue it looks a bit like what happens when someone with trauma symptoms is forced by necessity to bypass their own physiology - intellectually, spiritually, technologically, medically, therapeutically - into being hyper- functional despite deeper trauma or continuous stress that is not being addressed. Long-term subclinical or unrecognized C-PTSD, similar to how inattentive ADHD presents, and those in abusive environments. One could argue that COVID and our various responses to it was enough to traumatize the entire world, followed by 4 years of pushing towards maximal productivity during end-stage capitalism and mass ecocide/genocide/suicide. Just some thoughts.
Covid type of environment hardly causes trauma, you need a lot more for that and you might know that if you have extensive knowledge of people that have actual trauma.
As mentioned in the video, the initial reports were that the presence of CDS was associated with less efficacy from Ritalin for ADHD symptoms - but not that Ritalin was ineffective. So far, many of the ADHD medication or cogntive/behavioral approaches do seem to offer some help for CDS symptoms.
@@DrJohnKruseI have finally heard what has slowed me and frustrated me my entire life. I’ve been treated for ADHD for years. It did help initially, but its usefulness has declined over the years. I would love to know if language is affected by this?
I find it cool people are talking deeper about mental health now. For me, I’ve always suffered with something like CDS. ADHD does not seem to fit with me, but still I severely struggle with executive dysfunction. It’s ruined my life, since I failed most of my classes and can’t keep a job. Something to note was that I’ve dealt with depression from a very early age and diagnosed with autism. The only explanation I could find for what I experience was dissociation, especially depersonalization. I have been stressed and detached my entire life. Also always alone. Only child with a mom in the hospital a large portion of the time, and a dad in another state. Recently I’ve seen how when my stress gets worse, my symptoms worsen too. But it always looms over me. Depression could be an explanation, but these symptoms are chronic and consistent even when I don’t feel depressed. It could be I’m just too detached to feel that I’m depressed, but that would still count as dissociation.
This symptoms list seems to parallel disassociation from trauma more than ADHD to me. Are there any studies about how trauma responses compare to this collection of symptoms?
Exactly what I was thinking as well, seems to be a symptom or cluster of symptoms rather than its own syndrome. These seem to line up very well with trauma, PTSD, or C-PTSD, at least in my experience.
CDS only seems helpful as an umbrella term. What you’re describing mimics what I see in people with bad diets, some parasite symptoms, and also common trauma coping in people from abusive homes. PTSD in survivors of violence can also mimic these symptoms. CDS might not be its own thing, so much as a collection of causes that create the same effects… And those causes can compound to make the effects worse. I’ll use myself as an example so I’m not airing the dirty laundry of friends or family. I was diagnosed with ADHD and Asperger’s Syndrome as a kid. I grew up on a farm where dad publicly called us his Antebellum slaves, and treated us like such, while nobody in town cared. I was also molested by a girl when I was in daycare, and I was punished for it instead of her. After decades of physical and psychological abuse, I was helped to escape by mentors and friends. Then all the best people in my family died in quick succession in one year, and then I had to defend myself and my dog in a fistfight (whereupon that man tried to take my dog away and lie about me). After that fight, I shut down and became 100% antisocial, my dyscalculia grew worse rapidly, minor tasks became difficult, and turning to alcohol made everything worse. For three years I didn’t have a single clear thought. All of this, along with concussions, resulted in noticeable “CDS symptoms.” But it’s only CDS from a bird’s eye view. It’s actually ADHD+Asperger’s+CPTSD+concussions. I had to force myself to be socially active, and as you noted I was the kind who refused to engage in therapy as a result… Though it must be said, being socially active proved to be a cure. So I don’t think CDS is clinically helpful unless it’s used as a starting point. Keep in mind that people tend to label ourselves and make diagnoses (and self-diagnoses) into identity, which can reinforce the side effects like an anti-treatment. You can see me falling back into that self-identification labeling above, to an extent, though my cognition has rapidly improved by just exercising good mental health habits, better diet, exercise, more social activity, and prayer (which is so much more helpful than mere meditation). If you’re reading this and think you might have CDS, consider A) the root cause of your issues might be something else, and B) it’s not necessarily permanent.
I like how u have stated this…I don’t care much for labels because most use them to further excuse themselves of any responsibility to improve and heal and continue to cause problems for those around them in life….i have a brother that uses every excuse he can to keep from ever having to take responsibility for what he does that causes a lot of harm to the people who have to be around him
The shyness part is something I feel like I have grown out of or at least learn how to mask over the years. I can manage socializing much better now in my 40s that I could in my 20s and 30s,however connecting with people and forming meaningful relationships is still out of my reach and why I am still friendless and turned my focus towards animals vs spending it with people
As a kid, I had all the general symptoms you describe for CDS, but I had little to none of the behaviors or life impact of ADHD. I could focus when I needed to and accomplish everything I needed to, had no problems with time, etc. Though I did often lapse into daydreaming. In my early teens, I had no psychologically tested cognitive problems associated with ADHD, but began to display ADHD symptoms and behaviors like inability to focus, “time blindness,” etc. It also began impacting my life at school and at home. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 18. My mom also has ADHD. At 30, about 15 years after my first psych testing as a teen, my working memory is now tested as “borderline challenged,” and my executive function is in the 2nd percentile. This testing was done because I hadn’t been on medication for five years and wanted to get back on stimulant medication. To me, this suggests environmental or developmental damage to my brain, because my working memory is now actually quite impaired, unlike at 15 when I was displaying symptoms but my cognition tested normal. I’m not a professional, but I’d say CDS and ADHD are related somehow. To me, it looks as if I had CDS that ‘morphed into’ ADHD over time.
America introduced food fortification about 30 years ago. Gluten doesn't help. I started developing symptoms after moving here. Fluoride, MTHFR, food fortificiation are a rather unholy combination. It takes about 5 months to get the synthetic B-vitamins and the gluten out of your system, so it is really hard to see the connection here. Keto does help. Another factor is how we all screwed up our dopamine with more screen time. Also, as a teens, we all probably worked out much harder than we do now. If you can, try do working out again. Cold showers and very strict sleep hygiene help me feel almost normal.
@@rachelbartlett1970 absolutely gluten contributed. I stopped consuming gluten five years ago as I was getting extremely sick, year by year getting worse. Doctors had nothing to tell me. So by the time my insides started melting out my rear end, I did a bunch of research, and celiac disease was the only thing that matched all of my many symptoms. Went gluten free and got miraculously better, in 2-3 days most of my symptoms disappeared. Took about five months for the joint pain to go away. I thought I got away without permanent damage, but the cartilage in my jaw joint is completely gone, the specialist said the damage is most likely autoimmune, so that’s unfortunate. Apparently in autoimmune disease of the intestines, the jaw joint is often the first and hardest hit joint, and it began hurting many years before my other joints. The other joints had only been hurting for about 8 months before I went gluten free, so they are fine. I am sure it contributed to my ADHD, but I’m unsure if it caused it, as my mom has ADHD that was diagnosed by the state as a young child, and she is perfectly healthy except for slight high blood pressure. I also practice sleep hygiene and lift weights 5-6 days per week. I have always tried to be healthy, and have been health conscious my whole life, but I just got quite unlucky being born in America. Even if you’re health conscious, you get screwed by all the things you don’t know. I also did keto for about six months after going gluten free, and it did help my mental clarity a lot, and doing it helped me learn a lot about my body and nutrition, but it isn’t a long term solution.
You have great insight, no doubt an advantage given what you've shared. These are aspects I to resonate with, but only found later in life that 5+ concussions before 18yo has consequences, aside from the cause of some of them. Curious to know if you've had some, too, is you feel comfortable replying. Okay if not and wish you the best. 🙏🕊️
@@lulumoon6942 if I weren’t able to collect insight along the way, I’d be much worse off than I am. I cannot imagine how much worse off I’d be if I substituted my own insight for the wisdom of doctors. I’ve known only one or two who were compassionate, intelligent, and good communicators. To answer your question, I have never had a concussion or other head injury, but I can imagine that several, or even one, could cause temporary or permanent ADHD symptoms - or other cognitive symptoms - depending on how severe the injury was and/or which parts of the brain were affected.
Zink, magnesium, digestive enzymes, L-thionine, creatine, ghinko, also on my list, exercise, cold hot therapy, meditation & exposure to nature. BEST wishes 👍♥️
You are amazing. Thank you for explaining it so calmly and concisely. Since my Adhd symptoms have lessened I've been thinking ..why cant I when I am alone engage my brain in activities. And only either lie on the bed dormant or only listen to music. Noticing that certain types of you tube music and podcasts can help my motivation to do some tasks now like washing up where I could not do this simple task before..despite being an intelligent woman. Also noticing on bad days that my eyes or lids wouldn't open without eye exercises. Some days on better days no bad pain or feeling in the eyes or eyebrows. In addition my brain hS given me a clear message that when I wake I'm in a state of dead but breathing amin addition not being a ke to move or get out of bed. Some days I have to call a friend d to physi ally pull me out of bed then the house to activate me. I believe the reason for my brain issues are genetic from both parents to a worse degree. Can believe after 58 years I've found the final missing link. After googling day and night for 15 years. 😢😂❤😮😅
I’ve been called an air head since I was little and I’m 54. Don’t know how to change, even Ritalin doesn’t help. I’m sometimes impulsive, repetitive, forgetfulness is bad, just a lot. I watched the video about being an unwanted child!!!!! It gave so much insight to my issues! Plus I’m a psych nurse so this information is really good
@@annelbeab8124 but be very careful. Mate has many good things to say, but much of his writing has been thoroughly repudiated by research on the biological underpinnings of ADHD; he strongly puts trauma / poor parenting as the major contributor to developing ADHD, which simply isn't the case for many individuals.
Unpopular opinion: These kinds of brain (neural network) anomalies and variations are ripe for AI to categorize, comprehend, and diagnose... I think AI could really help us make sense of these variations in human cognition and help us understand each other...
I've always had ADHD-I, I'm now in my 40's. The daydreaming type symptoms started when covid was going on, but 3 years ago I got into an accident and the resulting mental trauma has me like these symptoms most days ever since. DBT has been my only way to pull myself out.
I feel like this describes me, but the way I would characterize things is that I tend to think more deeply, in more detail, and more thoroughly than most of the people around me. This leads people to view me as thinking slowly yet I will have a much much better understanding of things than they will when my thoughts catch up with theirs.
The "thorough" part doesn't seem to be a strong overlap with CDS, because the thoughts are described more as meandering or even pointless, rather than goal directed exploration of topics.
@@DrJohnKruse oh, okay. Thank you very much for clarifying this. I am okay with being undefined but I sort of wish I did know what my deal is because certain people do tend to misunderstand and/or discount me. Thanks again
@@angelwings7930 thanks and I can confirm you are right. I still seem to run up against adversarial neurotypicals in the workplace who think they can take advantage of me. It’s a weird and almost tragic dynamic that strains my ability to trust others in general. I can connect with people easily most of the time but there’s about 5-10% of people I ultimately struggle to see eye to eye with because catch them either lying to me or trying to play cruel games with me.
@@solvated_photon Yeah. You need to be around other intelligent people. I usually feel odd or dry around non artistic types, and not because I feel superior or anything but my old habit is assuming there’s something wrong with me. What helps is remembering I’m an artist and more mundane types aren’t always going to comprehend my personality or put me at ease. There’s less need to explain things to other creative types. And right, people who sense you’re a bit different than them etc can get insecure and cause problems.
I have ADHD and persistent depression. This feels very specific to those combined diagnosis. My depression has been more severe in the last decade, I'm 38. It's been very challenging because sometimes it feels like the two are battling each other. The analogy I like to use is ADHD is like drinking a energy drink and depression is like taking a sleeping pill with that energy drink.
Hello, long lost separated Irish twin. I’m 37 and the last 10 years have been very hard and my depression and adhd are an interesting combination- and by interesting I mean - there’s so much I mean. lol but ugh. I don’t know where to start
All my life i have been a daydreamer. Always in my head but my best friend has recently pointed out to me how i always take long breaks while talking, because im thinking of what to say. Add this to my frustration of going to therapy where i find it difficult and rushed to talk and i cant think of the things im supposed to talk about. I often feel as if im being rushed in most conversations and i feel bad for it. My lifestyle is a shut in mostly. My family would call my room my cave when i went home." Their they go back to their cave!" They would say. Recently i have thought about going to a professional for this as it impacts my life at times. Frequent enough i have to tell people mid conversation that i "blacked out" (thats what i call it when my mind just drifts off and loose the entire conversation) and need them to repeat the last things they were saying. Its a shame this isnt a diagnosis that can be given because it sounds like something i would like to explore.
I would suggest talking with your therapist about this, and they should be able to work on approaches to help alleviate this anxiety in therapy. If they can't it may be time to find another therapist.
@@DrJohnKruse well the only reason I have this anxiety about it is because sometimes people actually do rush me. Or start talking over me because they think I'm done talking. 😅. I just assume I'm not not very quick of mind like others.
47 years later and finally, there is a name for it and it’s not only me?!?! I am getting treated for ADD and it’s not “helping” guess now I need to find a doctor that is familiar with this because saying it’s been a struggle, is a laughable understatement. THANK YOU!!!
Well i see 'the cluster of symptoms' as a differentiated ability rather than a dis-ability. Those seemingly random thoughts come to us because a piece of information about a subject/topic has brought our attention to another topic that is somehow relevant which often becomes the theme of analysis, and that's where it appears we're "lost in day dream". Often times a neurodivergent mind such as ADHD/ADD, have great pattern recognition that aids in problem solving. According to modern medicine community, it is important to be inclusive of differently abled citizens, and that standard medical model of normalcy need a re-definiton, re-evaluation.
What should really be the deciding factor is not the symptoms but what's going on underneath biologically. There's probably plenty of medical issues that have symptoms that overlap but the treatment must factor in what going on biologically. As I understand it, there's a different pattern of activity in the brain involving overactivity of the default mode network. Treatments should be yoga, meditation, exercise, and neuro occupational therapy. There could always be a pill figured out later but we know more than enough about the brain that training this should help.
This describes me. Medication helps me sit down so I can focus rather than getting up every 10 mins but it didnt change my adhd symptoms by 180 degress like some people with adhd claim.
DANG 😮 Interesting perspective on a constellation of manifestations … helpful for me to frame and appreciate a constellation of manifestations vs a “pathology”. Thanks 🙏
23:54 What might determine if a parent promotes treatment for not social interacting with other kids or daydreaming might depend as much on whether the parents are of a blue collar or white collar culture. Many blue collar families tend to regard children as being inherently a “certain way”. Many tend to have a hands off approach or attempt to address issues using punishments at home. White collar families tend to focus in terms of signs to watch out for and traits to nurture. The latter is often more likely to ask for help with their child.
I was thrown off the bed at around 2 - 3 years old, hitting the area about my left Prefrontal Cortex. Im pretty sure I have no conscious access to my left hemispheres neocortex except vision. As a result im cognitively overloaded by things others take for granted. I calculated a 20 times reduction in cognitive load, any further cognitive load will cause the overload you describe that leads to shutdown. Look up neuronal avalanches cascades to understand there is a perfect balance needed, an excess of this load will jam up all the signals.
I spend an insane amount of time daydreaming. Rumination has also been a big recurring issue in my life. I feel that the description of CDS fits me pretty well. It’s very frustrating since I really want to be a different sort of person from who I am now.
I’m looking forward to the Q&A session on this. I was diagnosed with inattentive-adhd/add as a a child and 15+ years later I’m looking into treatment again. I suspect I’m much more “pure” inattentive than the people you mention in the video who are somewhat combined but think they are inattentive. I found some of Russell Barkley’s videos about CDS a little bit confusing, glad you’re addressing it and been liking your videos in general.
Hey! Q&As are Tuesdays at 2pm PST / 5pm EST / 11pm CEST If you can't make it at that time next Tuesday, I would be happy to relay your questions on your behalf during the next live if you'd like to write them down here. Have a good day!
@@FlynnaTH-cam hey tysm for offering to help. I wrote one long comment on the recent Stimulants May Help Your Brain video. It’s more of a personal story and I understand the difference between medical advice and educational content but I was wondering about Dr Kruse’s general thoughts in situations/presentations like this if you ever have to chance to pass it over during a Q&A and I’m not there. Have a good one and thank you again!
@mrdisco8616 That's no problem at all! I'll try to condense the comment a little to fit the Q&A format, and I'll relay your question this coming Tuesday.
@@FlynnaTH-cam That’s very nice of you. If I had to condense it myself i’d focus on the kind of stimulant intolerance/nocebo and Doctors’ lack of willingness to prescribe non-stimulants but I trust you have a better idea of what fits the segment.
@93lozfan why shouldn't we self diagnose ? We just need to get 'supervision' in form of a critical sparring partner to check whether our perceptions and conclusions have gone off the rails of reason.
@annelbeab8124 you dont self diagnose because there's nuance between conditions and the average person isn't trained to find those nuances. Eg. You could show signs of depression and believe you have depression, but the root cause is adhd and if you aren't aware of that you won't be treating the actual issue. Meaning your depressed symptoms won't go away for any significant period of time no matter how much you try until the adhd is treated.
@93lozfan diagnosed or treated? Sometimes knowing what's up, takes the burden away. Understanding roots. Understanding oneself. Understanding others. And then negotiating the space. If it takes to take substances, well, it may help in some cases. But as such it's just another peculiarity within the species and no one is identical, yet still sharing 99 % of the same settings and the same issues in life. Just playing out individually- including ND having certain traits that are a blessing as well as sometimes a curse (mostly because this insane society is difficult to copy - being obsessed with productivity and knowledge, less though with creativity and understanding. That's what we should 'cultivate ' in a constructive way)
@@annelbeab8124 diagnosed or treated? it sorry in advance for the wall. treatment/diagnosis isn't one or the other. If you're misdiagnosed you aren't being appropriately treated. I don't understand the second paragraph. let's use a real example: i have depression, but no one knows why including myself. some people have said it's adhd, but I've been tested and I don't have that. I may have autism but I'm an adult so testing isn't reliable especially since I'm not in contact with my family. treatment is making it easier to not be depressed but I struggle with a lot of other things. So if I start acting as though I have autism and I'm attempting to adjust to fit in to the hard required point of my life my depression may go away. (please don't blame society on ND people not fitting in, neurotypical people have it just as rough lots of times in the same ways. everyone is trying to make it through tomorrow, everyone has their own struggles) please don't walk away from this thinking that I'm saying self reflection is bad, I think it's really good, but looking at the DSM 5 and thinking that you have schizophrenia because you had the minimum number of criteria for the last week isn't going to help you.
I wonder if there's an association between CDS symptom presence/severity and and giftedness within the ADHD population. I can easily see the potential to be drawn to distractions from ADHD to "amplify" the already-elevated tendency to mind-wander in gifted children who are bored with easy classes.
My Doctor who is a D. O. doctor meaning they get to the root of what's Causing yr symptoms instead of just masking the symptoms with drugs like a typical M. D. does. They also keep themselves educated with the latest discoveries by medical scientists and pass that education along to their patience. To make a long story short. My Dr informed me about 5-MTHF. She said that 60% of ppl (idk how they get that figure) have a mutation in their DNA that prevents them from turning Folate into the Working form of Follic acid in our body. Resulting in (only 1 of the Many things it causes) ADHD. I was prescribed 5-MTHF 16 mg 1x a day. After 3 weeks my memory went from that of an 85 yo dementia patient to that of how it was in my 20's. I felt like I Won the Lottery. It didn't do much for my executive functioning tho. I ran out of my script and bought a prescription strength from Amazon. And Holy Smokes! The 1st pill kicked in my executive function. I accomplished focusing on getting SO MUCH done that day. By 2am I didn't want to stop bc I was afraid if it didn't work like that after the 1st time. Which of course it has. This pill is a MIRACLE CURE for My ADHD. Not saying it Will Work for Everyone. But it wouldn't hurt to try it. What do u have to lose? Most OTC versions are crap from what I've been told by a Dr friend I shared my info with. He even took down the name of thee one I'm taking for future use. They sell a pill form and drop formula. I'm including links. I hope this helps someone. Good luck. God bless. Pill: L Methyl Folate 15mg plus Methyl B12 Cofactor - Professional Strength, Active 5-MTHF Form - Supports Mood, Methylation, Cognition - Bioactive forms of Vitamin B9 & B12 (60 Capsules) a.co/d/hb33S2p Liquid: L Methyl Folate 15mg Plus Methyl B12 Cofactor - Organic, Berry Flavor, Professional Strength, Liquid Sublingual, Active 5-MTHF Form - Supports Mood, Homocysteine Methylation, Cognition (1oz) a.co/d/0Eap1s1
I thought I have adult expressive disorder. But that only checks some of my boxes. I cannot think quickly or in any sort of linear fashion. My brain is like a snow globe when I try and share my thoughts or feelings.
One reason the name changed is that slow thought turned out not to be that common. My psychiatrist gave me an “ADD” diagnosis, which apparently still is possible in Austria.
My boyfriend/husband used to call my daydreaming and spaced out moments 'panamimic seizures ' or something like that. That was in my late teens, early twenties Even now 30s year later, I experience a lot of brain pauses , brief hutting off, glitching, or just freezing up. I wish it was easier to diagnose my brain. Too many doctors over the years just say it's depression and stress and leave it at that. 😖
Extreme gratitude for discussing this topic. I believe I lived with an individual for 10 years who hits every component you discussed relating to Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome.It is my feeling that you would rarely see them in your practice because they are not unhappy. They are reasonably perfectly content. It is the people in relationships with the CDS individual that become challenged. In adults you would probably encounter them more in couples therapy. I am so thunderstruck by the traits of CDS you explained I am almost speechless. I have to process this. I had come to believe it was perhaps high functioning autism I was dealing with. Now I am gobsmacked. I will have to re-listen to this, to digest it. Then I am going to have a mountain of questions. I have NEVER heard of Cognative Disengagement Syndrome before. Much gratitude Dr Kruse….
“Train up a child in the way that it should go and when it is old it will not depart from it.” As sad as it is much of what people have been programmed to believe has been a slow methodical dumbing down. So much so that people believe that it’s wrong to ask questions for fear of seeming disrespectful. The term Stockholm syndrome comes to mind. Sadly. 🫤🥹
One more thing - i took tramadol for 2 years and I felt the most organized and no longer fatigued and my coworkers could tell when i didn't take it and would give me reminders. That was the early 90's and that drug took a different direction so it isn't considered treatment for stress related symptoms.
I took tramadol for a few years… I got myself off it, as I realised it was causing what I called “radio silence”, absolutely nothing internally. I could only respond to things outside of me. I was a zombie unless someone spoke to or needed me.
Is there a measure of IQ levels, comprehension and problem solving skills with this study? I have a family member that fits this perfectly.. no ADHD or ADD but diagnosed as slow to catch on, but had later in life gone to therapy and was told she has a good head on her shoulders. Also my grandma would say the person was a premature baby and said that was the issue.. however, her brother was also premature birth, very intelligent but also described simular traits. He also has been in therapy in late life stage (60s) to finally help him cope with issues he held concerning his father who was a WWII vet that suffered survivor's guilt and shell shock. So, coping mechanism? Maybe. But with environmental, economic and social insecurities creating a variety of stress will this be more prevalent in the future and be apart of the new normal of personality traits?
I think I have this because even though i was diagnosed with adhd, I'm not really that hyperactive. I daydream compulsively, I'm usually spaces out, I do often feel kind of foggy sometimes even after enough sleep, I have trouble understanding what people are saying sometimes. Like I can't pay attention to what they're saying. I am generally kind of sluggish. People often call me lazy even though I'm not like this on purpose at all
3:00 Just thinking out loud here, but is it also related to seemingly starting a conversation in the middle? I've known a few people where it's not just non sequiturs, but outright asking questions like, _So what do you think of that idea?_ when there was nothing preceding it, at least not out loud to the rest of us.
Aspects certainly overlap. But dissociation implies a loss of conscious continuity, an absence from one own's life/thoughts, whereas the individual with CDS may appear absent from your perspective, but there own experience would be more of wandering, slow thoughts, not a disappearance of the self.
Thank you for answering. I see your point. But I see dissociation as something one can have to various degrees. And yes, with strong dissociation there is a disruption of conscious continuity. But I still think having wandering, slow thoughts is very descriptive of having mild dissociative symptoms. And I believe it is possible to have mild dissociation without ever having or noticing having episodes of stronger dissociation.
@@johanh9637I agree with you. I believe I’ve dealt with chronic dissociation most of my life. I definitely have times where I lose time, my sense of self, thoughts, bodily feelings etc like Dr Kruse described. But on average my milder symptoms are a lot like CDS. I can still think, but it’s like trying to drag my thoughts through tar
I had extreme anxiety and often wondered why I never felt like I would disassociate because of it. Turns out u wouldn’t notice a difference if u had CDS
Oh, I’ve heard of this before! I like this name a lot more than “Sluggish Cognitive Tempo” that term really made me feel bad about myself because I identify with this a lot and I already feel like I’m stupid a lot of the time even though I know I’m a really smart girl.
Has there been any genetic studies done to compare people with CDS to people with ADHD and Autism? I find it interesting that researchers used to see it as a subtype of ADHD-I I'm also just fascinated with the relationship that ADHD has with other disorders.
Before putting any Psychiatric medications into your body - Get some blood tests! All of those things can hallmark symptoms hormone imbalances and/or vitamin deficiencies. I’m NOT saying this CDS isn’t a real thing but we owe it to our bodies and minds to check out any metabolic causations of these symptoms.
In 34 yo female and all of these ADS are symptoms I've always had along with unable to retain certain lessons like math and comprehension especially if I'm not intrested.
I just recently realized I was doing this actually, I wasnt sure what to call it, but I've been able to break out of it to some extent. Its difficult though to continually escape it. Before I realized what was going on, I have been stuck between daydreaming and fog my entire life up to this point. When I can escape these its genuinely an incredible feeling. I definitely want to know more about how others handle it and how they escape it.
Regardless of our condition we can't focus well unless we practice doing so by reading, writing, and whatever else works for someone. At least you'd get to your proper baseline that way, and rule out the role of time wasting - someone we're all guilty of in some way or another.
Reading anything longer than a news article has always caused me to fall asleep. That even applies when it's a subject that I'm interested in and I chose to read the book on my own. I hate it.
What I found helpful was giving my brain rest before going to do a task. Not always just a nap, only something not overstimulating. Also helps me slowly switch over from going task to task. I find pushing myself only sets me back. I’m definitely guilty of time wasting though
I have more than 5 of these symptoms, except one outlier. I don't have slow thinking, I am like razor sharp all the time when these other symptoms happen. I usually experience the worst of it 2-3 times a day (the excessive daydreaming/rumination). One way I help calm my mind is typing out or writing out what I'm thinking about. It kind of helps me shift off the topic I'm stuck on in my head
Oh my! I wish I saw this video sooner! I have so much to say, but I'll probably only say a little right now. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid. After listening to Russell Barkley's talks on SCT/CDS, the symptoms fit me so strongly (even down to the poor response to simulants and needing small doses!) that I was convinced I was misdiagnosed with ADHD and actually had SCT. After struggling so much at my former job, I began to suspect that I actually have both disorders. Based on my personal experience (assuming I do have both), I have to agree with you. *Both* the ADHD (fidgeting and feeling of being driven from my work) distractions and the CDS (daydreaminess) distractions are mostly *internal.* I think it's a misconception that ADHD people are mainly distracted by outside things all the time *However,* the way they present is *different.* The ADHD side feels almost like an unruly child screaming at me to do anything but my work. I fidget and shake as a coping mechanism (not that it helps much). The CDS symptoms don't appear on the outside as much. I instead happen to drift away in thought and cannot keep my focus on what I'm doing without my mind constantly thinking about something else. It also prevents me from "connecting the dots" so to speak so i can't figure out or even remember what I was doing or working on. Small doses of amphetamine are all I can handle, and they typically *only* address the ADHD symptoms I described above. The CDS symptoms are usually affected little to not at all. All in all, this (or maybe these) disorder has been an absolute nightmare for me, and still is!
@@DrJohnKruse Thank you for all that you do to help others manage and be more educated on these terrible disorders! I don't think people understand just how variable and disabling they can be in our lives.
What I would like to know is, how to approach children in educational setting that may have this compared to inattentive or mixed ADHD? Could this perhaps be another type of ADHD? There's no point of mentioning about getting tested as in this country there is a dire shortage of psychologists and negative attitude towards mental health issues. Teachers just try to help as much as we can. SAD is definitely real. I lived in Finland in my teens. I became depressed every year like a clockwork, and every year it also lifted within the same time period! (There was always at least a couple of months delay at both ends while the hormone levels were adjusting to the light.) When I emigrated to England, my winter depression wasn't nearly as noticeable: my SAD was so mild that the first two years I didn't even recognise I had it, but found excuses for my lack of energy and chronic low mood. Now that I live in the tropical zone, I only start feeling depressed if I don't go out during the daylight for weeks and weeks, or if I am wearing really dark sunglasses all the time.
I have all of the symptoms but I have a sleep disorder and hypercortisolism after experiencing years of extreme stress and trauma. I have been burned out for years. But I still don't have a single, unifying diagnosis.
Myself and my son. I am just a few minutes into the video, so you may discuss this, but I am also interested in whether there is any correlation to other symptoms such as lower muscle tone, late walking, need for braces to learn to walk, poor coordination, always struggling with physical activities as compared to other children but not impaired enough to look "disabled" (tagged as physically lazy instead). Examples: but both me and, my son couldn't do monkey bars or climb the rope that hung from the ceiling in PE tests when other kids could, both of us were the slowest at running, my son took the stairs by meeting both his feet on one step togerhert rather than one foot per step for years, my son always struggled with his body in space. An example would be any time he learned something that was fine or gross motor skill, he struggled to mimic with his own body what he was seeing the other person do. Even as he got older. So, if you are showing him how to hold a certain object, he needed explicit descriptions of where to place each finger in relation to the object. And often hand over hand assistance. It seemed to me to be both an issue with the cognitive processing of the task, as if he couldn't put his attention on the correct aspect of what to notice and a physical deficit in how to move his body (or cogbituve again related to motor control). There seems to be a proprioception deficit as well. He is sensory seeking and still at 16 ends up with his fingers in his mouth despite being a physically fit kid that works out, lifts weights, is in Honors cl!ases in homeschool. All because we've worked so hard. He needs much more repetition to learn to do physical things. And even now that he appears fit, he is slower and struggles with coordination. Swimming was great for him and I think it was because he got the proprioception feedback from the water. We both also suffered from chronic respiratory illnesses as children. I had my son tested for all allergies and asthma. He had a physical croup cough every year well past the typical age when most all kids outgrow it because their bodies grow out of it. Every year he had bronchitis infections. Swimming 3 to 5 days per week was the only thing that fixed it. What I am getting at is I hate just always had this feeling that there is some underlying connection between the cluster of symptoms you speak about in this video or ASHD-Inattentive (which both my son and I are diagnosed with), and a cluster of physical symptoms. And to me the common thread is delay in development and underdevelopment. Another thing both my son and I had was we were both the last to start puberty among our peers. My son is a full 2 years behind his peers in physical puberty. Another thing my son had but I don't remember having were sensory issues when he was younger that have gone away. Fir years, he would flush the toilet, cover his ears, and run. I used to think he may have Central Auditory Processing Disorder, even though I know its existence is not fully established. But I was looking for sets of symptoms. Neither my son nor myself are medicated for our ADHD-Inattentive.
@rosewild7142 oh my goodness, I almost cried reading this. I love him so much. It is just him and myself. He is such a great, caring person and hard worker. I'm so lucky to be his mom. Thank you for your kind words
I would also wonder, particularly with the allergy/asthma symptoms whether part of the link is auto-immune (I have a video about ADHD and auto-immune issues). Unfortunately there is still so much we don't know about mind body connections, but lots of active investigation is going on.
@DrJohnKruse Thank you for your reply. I have two diagnosed autoimmune conditions and am often suspected of a third. Another body symptom my son and I share us hypermobility and general body issues like hyperlirdosis, promoting feet, hyperextension knees, etc.
I remember having read that there's a fairly high level of co-morbidity between ADHD, ASD, dyspraxia and Ehlers Danlos Syndrom (EDS). All of those disorders also seem to increase the risks of GI issues, sleep disorders and autoimmune disorders.
Woah i have this 100% no dr has figured it out. I slur confused unable to find the worss and i zone out in the middle of a conversation ive tried cognitive suppliments and caffeen nothing really works. Need a solution im tired alot during rhe day but really love being up during the night
Yeah same here. I was diagnosed with ASD but I went from thinking I had severe ADHD (inattentive type) to half that and half CDS. I don’t think I have ASD, I don’t care about routines, but I could easily see how I could’ve been misdiagnosed if those two were present. There’s only so much behaviours a neurotypical child can do and I believe my mum has ADHD, and it’s known to run if families. When I’m in public, I feel like I’m in a fog, I’m just not there in any conversation. When I’m at home, I don’t get that too much unless I’m with more than 1 person, then it gets bad.
Query/ thinking out loud. "Fugue Epilepsy" Dissociative symptoms of epilepsy? Symptoms, especially in focal epilepsy of temporal lobe origin, may include dissociative-like experiences such as déjà vu/jamais vu, depersonalization, derealization and what has been described as a “dreamy state”.
You just described me. ADHD meds never worked . Ive been told that it may be anxiety induced. Father died suddenly at age 6 then lving with emotinally physically abusive alcoholic mother. Being born a "sensitive kid" and you can imagine why now at 61 I am 100% isolated. I have tried for decades to undo the danage or drop the past etc spent thousands on alternative modalities and still completely fkd. Never married no kids no family no close friends. To meet me you would never guess this. Im a compassionate person and not a "weirdo" although years of isolation is starting to make me feel weird socially so I just talk less. Im disappearing. I wish we had what canada has where I can leave this life if it is unfixable. Beleive me this is unfixable
Here I am 20 years behind you. The only thing I want in this life is a partner. Don't need kids, doubt it's in my scope at my age. Anyone I have ever been close to is dead already. I can't even get my life together to move forward with it and the only person holding me back is me. Similarly, I am admired socially and have no enemies in my life.
I don't see a psychiatrist, but I do have a neurologist/sleep specialist. Could I bring this up with my neurologist? I'm 39 years old and was diagnosed with type 2 narcolepsy at the age of 12 due to these symptoms. Right now, I'm prescribed armodafinil, which helps me focus, but strangely, it makes my daytime sleepiness worse. To me, it seems that CDS describes all the symptoms and traits I experience daily more so than the symptoms of narcolepsy.
I think it is certainly worth bringing up, that's something you can control from your end. What the neurologist does with that information is hard to predict. Some are attentive to whatever is going on with their patients, and many, somewhat surprisingly, don't want to have anything to do with behavioral/cognitive/emotional "psychiatric issues".
Interesting. I'm diagnosed ADHD as an adult, LD program in grade school. I'm an engineering graduate, public university program. But during conversations with my romantic partner, my brain checks out and I'm always asking her to repeat herself. It's an internal distraction.
There's a video that I saw a long time ago about something called 'ADHD Waiting Mode' it didn't have a diagnosis, but it was similar to this, like long periods of just no energy and then energy. I go through this often and found a timer helped, but also started using a custom GPT to self therapy myself out of this mode that has been very very effective for me - please reach out if you would like to try it out
Having those conditions could certainly make diagnose tricky, but cptsd doesn't tend to make thoughts dreamy and slow, more often they are anxious and centered around threats and perceived threats.
@@annelbeab8124 for many people, just knowing what they are dealing with, and that they are not alone in dealing with it, and knowing how it differs from similar conditions can be tremendously helpful.
@DrJohnKruse I find it at times artificial to make a person fit to a certain 'disease'. It's confusing and has the downside of people identifying with it. I think the symptoms are often correctly described, no question, but I'm more interested in how much is a natural part of us or a 'hindrance by nurture'. Nurture often binds to nature. Here it's often a heightened perception with combines in times of lack of safety into hypervigilance (and/or hyperactivity). If we discern that, we may enjoy our nature and regulate the patterns hijacking it better. That's why I'm careful with being too obsessed about diagnosis within a given medical system. As it doesn't answer all the questions, it's rather a description of clustered traits. I hope I get across what my point is.
Nope, it's not an attempt to eliminate personality. If you are happy dreaming, great. This becomes a problem when someone who has CDS behaviors wants to focus, wants to stop dreaming, wants to be productive and can't do so.
Sounds like me...I do smoke a lot of weed though. A lot. Almost every hour for about 15 yrs now. Definitely affected my mental clarity I feel. Creatine helped my concentration. As well as phosphatidylserine.
i disengage because i dont like repetitive social conversations that are meaningless and insincere and am therefore uninterested. not because i am ill. when properly intellectually stimulated i am completely engaged and functional.
How many of these kids/people are using screens more than 3 hours a day? How much can be helped by kids just getting outside for 3 hours a day or more?
I like to listen to good music while sipping a beer at the end of the day. But I'm busy. No time to engage in my hobbies. If I do have a day off I'm so exhausted I'll just sit. But there's always plenty to do.
Or it's an elderly person, always been depressed person , who went through the past few years , many losses . Also having an autoimmune disorder, ascending aortic aneurysm , a chance of having detached retina's and weed that's what I name it
I wonder if this syndrome is associated with media multitasking. A researcher named Wagner from Stanford is researching the effects of multitasking on attention and performance. (In conjunction with numerous other labs, fortunately). Before the advent of TH-cam shorts or TikTok, I noticed people were more engaged and less exhausted. Anecdotal of course but I’d love to see more research on the topic.
I ran across the full DSM IV a few days ago (thick book prob at least 300 pages long) and saw a description of avoidant personality disorder as 2 pages long. Which DSM are we on now? Is it DSM-V? Bc if it maintains at around ~2, a 2 page description seems to be a joke. Like really - as in DSM-IV the two pages wasn't even that descriptive or comprehensive
DSM-5TR. The brevity is intentional, and part of it is explained by reliance on lots of jargon, so many of the terms have specific meanings that differ from how the general public may use the words.
Most of the people I knew who were "checked out" were making conscious choices to disengage from society, mostly because they didn't like the content of their society. CDS is about how people process the world, and themselves, not primarily about not liking the content of our modern world.
Yeah, that's me. I had people in my life who would take advantage of this trait of mine by constantly changing topics during serious conversations until we lose the trail of thought and forget where we started at. Made it easier for them to avoid addressing issues. I'm sure I'm not the only person who experienced that. Beware the mind-bogglers.
Classic narcissist move, the topical whiplash
@@FyerBearI agree. This sounds like the type of narcissistic abuse tactic my kids’ mother would frequently use.
@@solvated_photonif you have adhd and certainly some of the topic changing is by you and if you have adhd freinds the cutting you off and changing topics might not be malicious ecause I do it all the time. I don’t meant to do it, I just get very excited and loose my focus. Everything feels so urgent
@@jonahblock rightly said but the person I am speaking about is from a foreign culture and demonstrated a low understanding/tolerance for me as a person only after they gained citizenship. I was a means to certain ends for someone and I’ve survived stuff I keep between myself and God for right now. I left after she assaulted me in front of our kids for asking her mother not to go through my personal belongings anymore.
Back on subject though, I am guilty of the stuff you mention. It’s taken me years to work on catching myself on things like compulsively talking over someone else. The struggle for me is that I am always fairly sure I will forget certain things I want to say in response if I don’t say them right away. I’ve gotten more comfortable with that possibility, better at biting my tongue, and I do my best to give people my “undivided attention.”
My wife does that to me on the regular. I'm getting better at catching on and zeroing back in
I have always done the spaced out daydreaming staring into space thing.
It has only gotten worse. I can totally depersonalize for many hours at a time into my own mind.
I have no social relationships anymore.
I just usually sit in the dark and watch youtube.
Commenting on videos helps me engage reality
Me too. I’ve always been able to daydream all day.
Amazing
Commenting on videos is only going to get you so far... You really can’t substitute social interaction, where meaningful connections are made/reinforced, for the comments section on TH-cam (or any online social media, for the rest of y’all) - they’re not interchangeable whatsoever.
You might already be aware of this, and in that case, I apologize for being redundant.
I genuinely hope you find a path that leads to healing, my friend!
@TheSubwizzle You are correct and I know, but idk how to be social anymore
Do you create Art?
Cognitive Disengagement, to me, seems more like a defense strategy in a world that no longer makes sense, and the feeling of helplessness in the individual to do anything about it than it does a disease. JMO.
I'm sure that would cover some people. But the majority of cases that have been researched are in kids who aren't particularly depressed, more slow and dreamy, and to my knowledge we're not seeing higher rates in war zones or other environments that might particularly induce helplessness.
@@DrJohnKruse I see. Thanks for your reply.
Mental illness gets complicated when most people have comorbidities and there are alot of external factors. Psychology is a difficult science to pin down but like also think of it this way-judt because something external could trigger this behavior doesn't mean that the ADHD wasent the precourser that allowed someone to do this as the coping mechanism. Brains are so complicated lol
Stress build up, over many years. Just that in itself, and then there are other things.
I agree. Deal with it daily. And I'm a 42 y/o veteran. Sometimes seems almost like arrested development.
Fascinating video.
set to 1.25x speed or more if needed.
as someone with strong inattentive symptoms I found it easier to pay attention with a slightly faster cadence.
thanks for the insights✌️
I would even argue it looks a bit like what happens when someone with trauma symptoms is forced by necessity to bypass their own physiology - intellectually, spiritually, technologically, medically, therapeutically - into being hyper- functional despite deeper trauma or continuous stress that is not being addressed. Long-term subclinical or unrecognized C-PTSD, similar to how inattentive ADHD presents, and those in abusive environments. One could argue that COVID and our various responses to it was enough to traumatize the entire world, followed by 4 years of pushing towards maximal productivity during end-stage capitalism and mass ecocide/genocide/suicide. Just some thoughts.
You thought well.
troo
💯 💯
ive wondered this as well. im definitely more intense with my symptoms.
Covid type of environment hardly causes trauma, you need a lot more for that and you might know that if you have extensive knowledge of people that have actual trauma.
50 yrs later and You described me perfectly. Doesnt help that nothing can be done about it.
45 years later !
I had this really bad, changing my diet helped bigtime. Stop eating processed sugar/carbs for a few weeks and see how you feel.
As mentioned in the video, the initial reports were that the presence of CDS was associated with less efficacy from Ritalin for ADHD symptoms - but not that Ritalin was ineffective. So far, many of the ADHD medication or cogntive/behavioral approaches do seem to offer some help for CDS symptoms.
@@DrJohnKruseI have finally heard what has slowed me and frustrated me my entire life. I’ve been treated for ADHD for years. It did help initially, but its usefulness has declined over the years. I would love to know if language is affected by this?
@@joemurphy710 slower speech verbalization and comprehension appear connected with CDS.
Just found this channel and love the videos. Finally someone who reflects on the literature
I'm glad that it provides something of value to you.
I find it cool people are talking deeper about mental health now. For me, I’ve always suffered with something like CDS. ADHD does not seem to fit with me, but still I severely struggle with executive dysfunction. It’s ruined my life, since I failed most of my classes and can’t keep a job. Something to note was that I’ve dealt with depression from a very early age and diagnosed with autism. The only explanation I could find for what I experience was dissociation, especially depersonalization.
I have been stressed and detached my entire life. Also always alone. Only child with a mom in the hospital a large portion of the time, and a dad in another state. Recently I’ve seen how when my stress gets worse, my symptoms worsen too. But it always looms over me. Depression could be an explanation, but these symptoms are chronic and consistent even when I don’t feel depressed. It could be I’m just too detached to feel that I’m depressed, but that would still count as dissociation.
I hope that you find an approach /diagnosis/ treatment or something that helps you cope with some of these problems.
This symptoms list seems to parallel disassociation from trauma more than ADHD to me. Are there any studies about how trauma responses compare to this collection of symptoms?
It seems like this area is only starting to be investigated. You might want to look into developmental trauma, or cptsd!
Exactly what I was thinking as well, seems to be a symptom or cluster of symptoms rather than its own syndrome. These seem to line up very well with trauma, PTSD, or C-PTSD, at least in my experience.
Patrick Teahan has a very thought provoking video entitled "ADHD or Trauma Noise? - 4 Examples"
Bingo. That is exactly what it is 😊
@@TheColourSplatwhy would this OP need to look into that, they are literally saying that’s what this might be
CDS only seems helpful as an umbrella term. What you’re describing mimics what I see in people with bad diets, some parasite symptoms, and also common trauma coping in people from abusive homes. PTSD in survivors of violence can also mimic these symptoms. CDS might not be its own thing, so much as a collection of causes that create the same effects… And those causes can compound to make the effects worse.
I’ll use myself as an example so I’m not airing the dirty laundry of friends or family. I was diagnosed with ADHD and Asperger’s Syndrome as a kid. I grew up on a farm where dad publicly called us his Antebellum slaves, and treated us like such, while nobody in town cared. I was also molested by a girl when I was in daycare, and I was punished for it instead of her. After decades of physical and psychological abuse, I was helped to escape by mentors and friends. Then all the best people in my family died in quick succession in one year, and then I had to defend myself and my dog in a fistfight (whereupon that man tried to take my dog away and lie about me). After that fight, I shut down and became 100% antisocial, my dyscalculia grew worse rapidly, minor tasks became difficult, and turning to alcohol made everything worse. For three years I didn’t have a single clear thought.
All of this, along with concussions, resulted in noticeable “CDS symptoms.” But it’s only CDS from a bird’s eye view. It’s actually ADHD+Asperger’s+CPTSD+concussions. I had to force myself to be socially active, and as you noted I was the kind who refused to engage in therapy as a result… Though it must be said, being socially active proved to be a cure.
So I don’t think CDS is clinically helpful unless it’s used as a starting point. Keep in mind that people tend to label ourselves and make diagnoses (and self-diagnoses) into identity, which can reinforce the side effects like an anti-treatment. You can see me falling back into that self-identification labeling above, to an extent, though my cognition has rapidly improved by just exercising good mental health habits, better diet, exercise, more social activity, and prayer (which is so much more helpful than mere meditation).
If you’re reading this and think you might have CDS, consider A) the root cause of your issues might be something else, and B) it’s not necessarily permanent.
I like how u have stated this…I don’t care much for labels because most use them to further excuse themselves of any responsibility to improve and heal and continue to cause problems for those around them in life….i have a brother that uses every excuse he can to keep from ever having to take responsibility for what he does that causes a lot of harm to the people who have to be around him
I appreciate you sharing so much of your life experience, and your recommendations for trying to examine the origin of symptoms makes sense to me.
@@DrJohnKruse Thanks for taking it under consideration.
add menopause in the mix.
Thank you
The shyness part is something I feel like I have grown out of or at least learn how to mask over the years. I can manage socializing much better now in my 40s that I could in my 20s and 30s,however connecting with people and forming meaningful relationships is still out of my reach and why I am still friendless and turned my focus towards animals vs spending it with people
As a kid, I had all the general symptoms you describe for CDS, but I had little to none of the behaviors or life impact of ADHD. I could focus when I needed to and accomplish everything I needed to, had no problems with time, etc. Though I did often lapse into daydreaming.
In my early teens, I had no psychologically tested cognitive problems associated with ADHD, but began to display ADHD symptoms and behaviors like inability to focus, “time blindness,” etc. It also began impacting my life at school and at home. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 18. My mom also has ADHD.
At 30, about 15 years after my first psych testing as a teen, my working memory is now tested as “borderline challenged,” and my executive function is in the 2nd percentile. This testing was done because I hadn’t been on medication for five years and wanted to get back on stimulant medication. To me, this suggests environmental or developmental damage to my brain, because my working memory is now actually quite impaired, unlike at 15 when I was displaying symptoms but my cognition tested normal.
I’m not a professional, but I’d say CDS and ADHD are related somehow. To me, it looks as if I had CDS that ‘morphed into’ ADHD over time.
America introduced food fortification about 30 years ago. Gluten doesn't help.
I started developing symptoms after moving here. Fluoride, MTHFR, food fortificiation are a rather unholy combination. It takes about 5 months to get the synthetic B-vitamins and the gluten out of your system, so it is really hard to see the connection here. Keto does help. Another factor is how we all screwed up our dopamine with more screen time.
Also, as a teens, we all probably worked out much harder than we do now. If you can, try do working out again. Cold showers and very strict sleep hygiene help me feel almost normal.
@@rachelbartlett1970 absolutely gluten contributed. I stopped consuming gluten five years ago as I was getting extremely sick, year by year getting worse. Doctors had nothing to tell me. So by the time my insides started melting out my rear end, I did a bunch of research, and celiac disease was the only thing that matched all of my many symptoms. Went gluten free and got miraculously better, in 2-3 days most of my symptoms disappeared. Took about five months for the joint pain to go away. I thought I got away without permanent damage, but the cartilage in my jaw joint is completely gone, the specialist said the damage is most likely autoimmune, so that’s unfortunate. Apparently in autoimmune disease of the intestines, the jaw joint is often the first and hardest hit joint, and it began hurting many years before my other joints. The other joints had only been hurting for about 8 months before I went gluten free, so they are fine.
I am sure it contributed to my ADHD, but I’m unsure if it caused it, as my mom has ADHD that was diagnosed by the state as a young child, and she is perfectly healthy except for slight high blood pressure. I also practice sleep hygiene and lift weights 5-6 days per week. I have always tried to be healthy, and have been health conscious my whole life, but I just got quite unlucky being born in America. Even if you’re health conscious, you get screwed by all the things you don’t know. I also did keto for about six months after going gluten free, and it did help my mental clarity a lot, and doing it helped me learn a lot about my body and nutrition, but it isn’t a long term solution.
You have great insight, no doubt an advantage given what you've shared. These are aspects I to resonate with, but only found later in life that 5+ concussions before 18yo has consequences, aside from the cause of some of them. Curious to know if you've had some, too, is you feel comfortable replying. Okay if not and wish you the best. 🙏🕊️
@@lulumoon6942 if I weren’t able to collect insight along the way, I’d be much worse off than I am. I cannot imagine how much worse off I’d be if I substituted my own insight for the wisdom of doctors. I’ve known only one or two who were compassionate, intelligent, and good communicators.
To answer your question, I have never had a concussion or other head injury, but I can imagine that several, or even one, could cause temporary or permanent ADHD symptoms
- or other cognitive symptoms - depending on how severe the injury was and/or which parts of the brain were affected.
Have you heard what Gabor Mate says about ADHD?
Me drifting off during this video thinking about how much this describes me.
i kept getting distracted
I find that listening to videos at high playback speed helps me stay more engaged.
It's funny that his tone is Sooooo sloooow and mono toned. That my ADHD has such a hard time fully listening to him even though I want to. 😅
He talks too slowly for my ADHD brain but I know I need to listen
Adjust the speed of video.
Rule out peripheral causes such as anemia, B12 and other deficiencies, low Vitamin D.
And essential amino acids. 1/4 tsp a day helped me - and would love if it helped others
@@Mary-st3vtreally interesting- can you share which amino acids / blend you used? There are so many!
A great reference to seek is anemia related chronic inflammation vs B12, folate, iron deficiency or ineffective absorption
Zink, magnesium, digestive enzymes, L-thionine, creatine, ghinko, also on my list, exercise, cold hot therapy, meditation & exposure to nature.
BEST wishes 👍♥️
@@BecPlumbe Sure. Brand: Ecological Formulas, their Free-Form Amino Acids - 1/4 tsp a day. Hope it helps you
You are amazing. Thank you for explaining it so calmly and concisely. Since my Adhd symptoms have lessened I've been thinking ..why cant I when I am alone engage my brain in activities. And only either lie on the bed dormant or only listen to music. Noticing that certain types of you tube music and podcasts can help my motivation to do some tasks now like washing up where I could not do this simple task before..despite being an intelligent woman. Also noticing on bad days that my eyes or lids wouldn't open without eye exercises. Some days on better days no bad pain or feeling in the eyes or eyebrows. In addition my brain hS given me a clear message that when I wake I'm in a state of dead but breathing amin addition not being a ke to move or get out of bed. Some days I have to call a friend d to physi ally pull me out of bed then the house to activate me. I believe the reason for my brain issues are genetic from both parents to a worse degree. Can believe after 58 years I've found the final missing link. After googling day and night for 15 years. 😢😂❤😮😅
I'm glad that you've been persistent.
Important to see this as separate and distinct from adhd symptom base symptoms. Thank you for outling this
I’ve been called an air head since I was little and I’m 54. Don’t know how to change, even Ritalin doesn’t help. I’m sometimes impulsive, repetitive, forgetfulness is bad, just a lot. I watched the video about being an unwanted child!!!!! It gave so much insight to my issues! Plus I’m a psych nurse so this information is really good
Check out Gabor Maté maybe
@@annelbeab8124 but be very careful. Mate has many good things to say, but much of his writing has been thoroughly repudiated by research on the biological underpinnings of ADHD; he strongly puts trauma / poor parenting as the major contributor to developing ADHD, which simply isn't the case for many individuals.
Unpopular opinion: These kinds of brain (neural network) anomalies and variations are ripe for AI to categorize, comprehend, and diagnose... I think AI could really help us make sense of these variations in human cognition and help us understand each other...
OMG THIS IS ME!! It’s time to start taking treatment serious. Thank you!
You're welcome. I hope that you find effective help.
I've always had ADHD-I, I'm now in my 40's. The daydreaming type symptoms started when covid was going on, but 3 years ago I got into an accident and the resulting mental trauma has me like these symptoms most days ever since. DBT has been my only way to pull myself out.
I feel like this describes me, but the way I would characterize things is that I tend to think more deeply, in more detail, and more thoroughly than most of the people around me. This leads people to view me as thinking slowly yet I will have a much much better understanding of things than they will when my thoughts catch up with theirs.
The "thorough" part doesn't seem to be a strong overlap with CDS, because the thoughts are described more as meandering or even pointless, rather than goal directed exploration of topics.
@@DrJohnKruse oh, okay. Thank you very much for clarifying this. I am okay with being undefined but I sort of wish I did know what my deal is because certain people do tend to misunderstand and/or discount me. Thanks again
@@solvated_photon
You’re probably well suited to research work, creative projects, art, etc. don’t let more shallow thinkers get you down.
@@angelwings7930 thanks and I can confirm you are right. I still seem to run up against adversarial neurotypicals in the workplace who think they can take advantage of me. It’s a weird and almost tragic dynamic that strains my ability to trust others in general. I can connect with people easily most of the time but there’s about 5-10% of people I ultimately struggle to see eye to eye with because catch them either lying to me or trying to play cruel games with me.
@@solvated_photon
Yeah. You need to be around other intelligent people. I usually feel odd or dry around non artistic types, and not because I feel superior or anything but my old habit is assuming there’s something wrong with me. What helps is remembering I’m an artist and more mundane types aren’t always going to comprehend my personality or put me at ease. There’s less need to explain things to other creative types. And right, people who sense you’re a bit different than them etc can get insecure and cause problems.
I have ADHD and persistent depression. This feels very specific to those combined diagnosis. My depression has been more severe in the last decade, I'm 38. It's been very challenging because sometimes it feels like the two are battling each other. The analogy I like to use is ADHD is like drinking a energy drink and depression is like taking a sleeping pill with that energy drink.
Hello, long lost separated Irish twin. I’m 37 and the last 10 years have been very hard and my depression and adhd are an interesting combination- and by interesting I mean - there’s so much I mean. lol but ugh. I don’t know where to start
All my life i have been a daydreamer. Always in my head but my best friend has recently pointed out to me how i always take long breaks while talking, because im thinking of what to say. Add this to my frustration of going to therapy where i find it difficult and rushed to talk and i cant think of the things im supposed to talk about. I often feel as if im being rushed in most conversations and i feel bad for it. My lifestyle is a shut in mostly. My family would call my room my cave when i went home." Their they go back to their cave!" They would say. Recently i have thought about going to a professional for this as it impacts my life at times. Frequent enough i have to tell people mid conversation that i "blacked out" (thats what i call it when my mind just drifts off and loose the entire conversation) and need them to repeat the last things they were saying. Its a shame this isnt a diagnosis that can be given because it sounds like something i would like to explore.
I would suggest talking with your therapist about this, and they should be able to work on approaches to help alleviate this anxiety in therapy. If they can't it may be time to find another therapist.
@@DrJohnKruse well the only reason I have this anxiety about it is because sometimes people actually do rush me. Or start talking over me because they think I'm done talking. 😅. I just assume I'm not not very quick of mind like others.
@@Coffee-v3w yes, you've made that clear. But even if you are slow in your thinking/responses that doesn't mean you have to feel anxious about it.
@@DrJohnKruse oh I see, thank you for your kind words 😌
47 years later and finally, there is a name for it and it’s not only me?!?! I am getting treated for ADD and it’s not “helping” guess now I need to find a doctor that is familiar with this because saying it’s been a struggle, is a laughable understatement. THANK YOU!!!
Well i see 'the cluster of symptoms' as a differentiated ability rather than a dis-ability. Those seemingly random thoughts come to us because a piece of information about a subject/topic has brought our attention to another topic that is somehow relevant which often becomes the theme of analysis, and that's where it appears we're "lost in day dream". Often times a neurodivergent mind such as ADHD/ADD, have great pattern recognition that aids in problem solving. According to modern medicine community, it is important to be inclusive of differently abled citizens, and that standard medical model of normalcy need a re-definiton, re-evaluation.
What should really be the deciding factor is not the symptoms but what's going on underneath biologically. There's probably plenty of medical issues that have symptoms that overlap but the treatment must factor in what going on biologically.
As I understand it, there's a different pattern of activity in the brain involving overactivity of the default mode network.
Treatments should be yoga, meditation, exercise, and neuro occupational therapy.
There could always be a pill figured out later but we know more than enough about the brain that training this should help.
I am 60 seconds into this video and you already have my full attention. Let's see how long I can make it last lol.
This is SUPER interesting!
Thank you. I feel this way so much, so often.
This describes me. Medication helps me sit down so I can focus rather than getting up every 10 mins but it didnt change my adhd symptoms by 180 degress like some people with adhd claim.
DANG 😮
Interesting perspective on a constellation of manifestations … helpful for me to frame and appreciate a constellation of manifestations vs a “pathology”. Thanks 🙏
23:54 What might determine if a parent promotes treatment for not social interacting with other kids or daydreaming might depend as much on whether the parents are of a blue collar or white collar culture.
Many blue collar families tend to regard children as being inherently a “certain way”. Many tend to have a hands off approach or attempt to address issues using punishments at home. White collar families tend to focus in terms of signs to watch out for and traits to nurture. The latter is often more likely to ask for help with their child.
Parents with less leisure time and money may also be less inclined to bring their children to "experts" for treatment.
@@DrJohnKruse True. From observation it’s more about the stigma, of “needing help”. Even when there is more time the behavior doesn’t seem to change.
@@DrJohnKruse And also not seeing the point of taking kids to therapy.
They often seem to believe that they’re inherently a particular way.
I was thrown off the bed at around 2 - 3 years old, hitting the area about my left Prefrontal Cortex. Im pretty sure I have no conscious access to my left hemispheres neocortex except vision. As a result im cognitively overloaded by things others take for granted. I calculated a 20 times reduction in cognitive load, any further cognitive load will cause the overload you describe that leads to shutdown.
Look up neuronal avalanches cascades to understand there is a perfect balance needed, an excess of this load will jam up all the signals.
I spend an insane amount of time daydreaming. Rumination has also been a big recurring issue in my life. I feel that the description of CDS fits me pretty well. It’s very frustrating since I really want to be a different sort of person from who I am now.
I’m looking forward to the Q&A session on this. I was diagnosed with inattentive-adhd/add as a a child and 15+ years later I’m looking into treatment again. I suspect I’m much more “pure” inattentive than the people you mention in the video who are somewhat combined but think they are inattentive. I found some of Russell Barkley’s videos about CDS a little bit confusing, glad you’re addressing it and been liking your videos in general.
Keep reading and listening and investigating for yourself. I applaud you for looking deeper until you understand. It's work! Bravo to you
Hey!
Q&As are Tuesdays at 2pm PST / 5pm EST / 11pm CEST
If you can't make it at that time next Tuesday, I would be happy to relay your questions on your behalf during the next live if you'd like to write them down here.
Have a good day!
@@FlynnaTH-cam hey tysm for offering to help. I wrote one long comment on the recent Stimulants May Help Your Brain video. It’s more of a personal story and I understand the difference between medical advice and educational content but I was wondering about Dr Kruse’s general thoughts in situations/presentations like this if you ever have to chance to pass it over during a Q&A and I’m not there. Have a good one and thank you again!
@mrdisco8616 That's no problem at all!
I'll try to condense the comment a little to fit the Q&A format, and I'll relay your question this coming Tuesday.
@@FlynnaTH-cam That’s very nice of you. If I had to condense it myself i’d focus on the kind of stimulant intolerance/nocebo and Doctors’ lack of willingness to prescribe non-stimulants but I trust you have a better idea of what fits the segment.
I know you aren't supposed to self diagnose but i consistently display all of those symptoms you listed throughout my life
@93lozfan why shouldn't we self diagnose ? We just need to get 'supervision' in form of a critical sparring partner to check whether our perceptions and conclusions have gone off the rails of reason.
@annelbeab8124 you dont self diagnose because there's nuance between conditions and the average person isn't trained to find those nuances. Eg. You could show signs of depression and believe you have depression, but the root cause is adhd and if you aren't aware of that you won't be treating the actual issue. Meaning your depressed symptoms won't go away for any significant period of time no matter how much you try until the adhd is treated.
@93lozfan diagnosed or treated?
Sometimes knowing what's up, takes the burden away.
Understanding roots. Understanding oneself. Understanding others. And then negotiating the space.
If it takes to take substances, well, it may help in some cases. But as such it's just another peculiarity within the species and no one is identical, yet still sharing 99 % of the same settings and the same issues in life. Just playing out individually- including ND having certain traits that are a blessing as well as sometimes a curse (mostly because this insane society is difficult to copy - being obsessed with productivity and knowledge, less though with creativity and understanding. That's what we should 'cultivate ' in a constructive way)
@@annelbeab8124 diagnosed or treated? it
sorry in advance for the wall.
treatment/diagnosis isn't one or the other. If you're misdiagnosed you aren't being appropriately treated.
I don't understand the second paragraph.
let's use a real example: i have depression, but no one knows why including myself. some people have said it's adhd, but I've been tested and I don't have that. I may have autism but I'm an adult so testing isn't reliable especially since I'm not in contact with my family. treatment is making it easier to not be depressed but I struggle with a lot of other things. So if I start acting as though I have autism and I'm attempting to adjust to fit in to the hard required point of my life my depression may go away. (please don't blame society on ND people not fitting in, neurotypical people have it just as rough lots of times in the same ways. everyone is trying to make it through tomorrow, everyone has their own struggles)
please don't walk away from this thinking that I'm saying self reflection is bad, I think it's really good, but looking at the DSM 5 and thinking that you have schizophrenia because you had the minimum number of criteria for the last week isn't going to help you.
I wonder if there's an association between CDS symptom presence/severity and and giftedness within the ADHD population. I can easily see the potential to be drawn to distractions from ADHD to "amplify" the already-elevated tendency to mind-wander in gifted children who are bored with easy classes.
Good question, and I don't know the answer. I didn't run across any such studies while preparing this viedo.
My Doctor who is a D. O. doctor meaning they get to the root of what's Causing yr symptoms instead of just masking the symptoms with drugs like a typical M. D. does. They also keep themselves educated with the latest discoveries by medical scientists and pass that education along to their patience. To make a long story short. My Dr informed me about 5-MTHF. She said that 60% of ppl (idk how they get that figure) have a mutation in their DNA that prevents them from turning Folate into the Working form of Follic acid in our body. Resulting in (only 1 of the Many things it causes) ADHD. I was prescribed 5-MTHF 16 mg 1x a day. After 3 weeks my memory went from that of an 85 yo dementia patient to that of how it was in my 20's. I felt like I Won the Lottery. It didn't do much for my executive functioning tho. I ran out of my script and bought a prescription strength from Amazon. And Holy Smokes! The 1st pill kicked in my executive function. I accomplished focusing on getting SO MUCH done that day. By 2am I didn't want to stop bc I was afraid if it didn't work like that after the 1st time. Which of course it has. This pill is a MIRACLE CURE for My ADHD. Not saying it Will Work for Everyone. But it wouldn't hurt to try it. What do u have to lose?
Most OTC versions are crap from what I've been told by a Dr friend I shared my info with. He even took down the name of thee one I'm taking for future use. They sell a pill form and drop formula. I'm including links. I hope this helps someone. Good luck. God bless.
Pill:
L Methyl Folate 15mg plus Methyl B12 Cofactor - Professional Strength, Active 5-MTHF Form - Supports Mood, Methylation, Cognition - Bioactive forms of Vitamin B9 & B12 (60 Capsules) a.co/d/hb33S2p
Liquid:
L Methyl Folate 15mg Plus Methyl B12 Cofactor - Organic, Berry Flavor, Professional Strength, Liquid Sublingual, Active 5-MTHF Form - Supports Mood, Homocysteine Methylation, Cognition (1oz) a.co/d/0Eap1s1
I thought I have adult expressive disorder. But that only checks some of my boxes. I cannot think quickly or in any sort of linear fashion. My brain is like a snow globe when I try and share my thoughts or feelings.
One reason the name changed is that slow thought turned out not to be that common. My psychiatrist gave me an “ADD” diagnosis, which apparently still is possible in Austria.
My boyfriend/husband used to call my daydreaming and spaced out moments 'panamimic seizures ' or something like that. That was in my late teens, early twenties
Even now 30s year later, I experience a lot of brain pauses , brief hutting off, glitching, or just freezing up.
I wish it was easier to diagnose my brain. Too many doctors over the years just say it's depression and stress and leave it at that. 😖
Also super interesting to see this one video blow up relative to your other videos btw - a lot of people seem to relate to this
Extreme gratitude for discussing this topic. I believe I lived with an individual for 10 years who hits every component you discussed relating to Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome.It is my feeling that you would rarely see them in your practice because they are not unhappy. They are reasonably perfectly content. It is the people in relationships with the CDS individual that become challenged. In adults you would probably encounter them more in couples therapy.
I am so thunderstruck by the traits of CDS you explained I am almost speechless.
I have to process this. I had come to believe it was perhaps high functioning autism I was dealing with. Now I am gobsmacked.
I will have to re-listen to this, to digest it. Then I am going to have a mountain of questions. I have NEVER heard of Cognative
Disengagement Syndrome before.
Much gratitude Dr Kruse….
You're welcome! I hope that it also helps the person you lived with.
“Train up a child in the way that it should go and when it is old it will not depart from it.” As sad as it is much of what people have been programmed to believe has been a slow methodical dumbing down. So much so that people believe that it’s wrong to ask questions for fear of seeming disrespectful. The term Stockholm syndrome comes to mind. Sadly. 🫤🥹
One more thing - i took tramadol for 2 years and I felt the most organized and no longer fatigued and my coworkers could tell when i didn't take it and would give me reminders.
That was the early 90's and that drug took a different direction so it isn't considered treatment for stress related symptoms.
I took tramadol for a few years… I got myself off it, as I realised it was causing what I called “radio silence”, absolutely nothing internally. I could only respond to things outside of me. I was a zombie unless someone spoke to or needed me.
Is there a measure of IQ levels, comprehension and problem solving skills with this study?
I have a family member that fits this perfectly.. no ADHD or ADD but diagnosed as slow to catch on, but had later in life gone to therapy and was told she has a good head on her shoulders. Also my grandma would say the person was a premature baby and said that was the issue.. however, her brother was also premature birth, very intelligent but also described simular traits. He also has been in therapy in late life stage (60s) to finally help him cope with issues he held concerning his father who was a WWII vet that suffered survivor's guilt and shell shock. So, coping mechanism? Maybe. But with environmental, economic and social insecurities creating a variety of stress will this be more prevalent in the future and be apart of the new normal of personality traits?
I think I have this because even though i was diagnosed with adhd, I'm not really that hyperactive. I daydream compulsively, I'm usually spaces out, I do often feel kind of foggy sometimes even after enough sleep, I have trouble understanding what people are saying sometimes. Like I can't pay attention to what they're saying. I am generally kind of sluggish. People often call me lazy even though I'm not like this on purpose at all
Strattera didn't help at all lol
3:00 Just thinking out loud here, but is it also related to seemingly starting a conversation in the middle?
I've known a few people where it's not just non sequiturs, but outright asking questions like, _So what do you think of that idea?_ when there was nothing preceding it, at least not out loud to the rest of us.
That could be one way it shows up.
This sounds like dissociation found in trauma disorders like CPTSD and also "audhd"
Aspects certainly overlap. But dissociation implies a loss of conscious continuity, an absence from one own's life/thoughts, whereas the individual with CDS may appear absent from your perspective, but there own experience would be more of wandering, slow thoughts, not a disappearance of the self.
Thank you for answering. I see your point. But I see dissociation as something one can have to various degrees. And yes, with strong dissociation there is a disruption of conscious continuity. But I still think having wandering, slow thoughts is very descriptive of having mild dissociative symptoms. And I believe it is possible to have mild dissociation without ever having or noticing having episodes of stronger dissociation.
I agree .. I left my ex 2 years ago .. 2020 I got diagnosed with ADHD ..
But two years later I am struggling with said topic severely
@@johanh9637I agree with you. I believe I’ve dealt with chronic dissociation most of my life. I definitely have times where I lose time, my sense of self, thoughts, bodily feelings etc like Dr Kruse described. But on average my milder symptoms are a lot like CDS. I can still think, but it’s like trying to drag my thoughts through tar
I had extreme anxiety and often wondered why I never felt like I would disassociate because of it. Turns out u wouldn’t notice a difference if u had CDS
Oh, I’ve heard of this before! I like this name a lot more than “Sluggish Cognitive Tempo” that term really made me feel bad about myself because I identify with this a lot and I already feel like I’m stupid a lot of the time even though I know I’m a really smart girl.
Has there been any genetic studies done to compare people with CDS to people with ADHD and Autism?
I find it interesting that researchers used to see it as a subtype of ADHD-I
I'm also just fascinated with the relationship that ADHD has with other disorders.
Before putting any Psychiatric medications into your body - Get some blood tests! All of those things can hallmark symptoms hormone imbalances and/or vitamin deficiencies. I’m NOT saying this CDS isn’t a real thing but we owe it to our bodies and minds to check out any metabolic causations of these symptoms.
In 34 yo female and all of these ADS are symptoms I've always had along with unable to retain certain
lessons like math and comprehension especially if I'm not intrested.
Thank you, this explains so much of my behavior.
I think I have this. I struggled so much with these symptoms growing up. It’s nice to know. It was assumed I was deaf in kindergarten.
Can it be treated with 4-methylaminorex? I'm working on another structure through the IBM chemical synthesizer.
I just recently realized I was doing this actually, I wasnt sure what to call it, but I've been able to break out of it to some extent. Its difficult though to continually escape it. Before I realized what was going on, I have been stuck between daydreaming and fog my entire life up to this point. When I can escape these its genuinely an incredible feeling. I definitely want to know more about how others handle it and how they escape it.
Regardless of our condition we can't focus well unless we practice doing so by reading, writing, and whatever else works for someone. At least you'd get to your proper baseline that way, and rule out the role of time wasting - someone we're all guilty of in some way or another.
Reading anything longer than a news article has always caused me to fall asleep. That even applies when it's a subject that I'm interested in and I chose to read the book on my own. I hate it.
What I found helpful was giving my brain rest before going to do a task. Not always just a nap, only something not overstimulating. Also helps me slowly switch over from going task to task. I find pushing myself only sets me back. I’m definitely guilty of time wasting though
"Is there something going on up there?" "Why? No. Should it?"😂
I have more than 5 of these symptoms, except one outlier. I don't have slow thinking, I am like razor sharp all the time when these other symptoms happen. I usually experience the worst of it 2-3 times a day (the excessive daydreaming/rumination). One way I help calm my mind is typing out or writing out what I'm thinking about. It kind of helps me shift off the topic I'm stuck on in my head
Oh my! I wish I saw this video sooner! I have so much to say, but I'll probably only say a little right now.
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid. After listening to Russell Barkley's talks on SCT/CDS, the symptoms fit me so strongly (even down to the poor response to simulants and needing small doses!) that I was convinced I was misdiagnosed with ADHD and actually had SCT.
After struggling so much at my former job, I began to suspect that I actually have both disorders.
Based on my personal experience (assuming I do have both), I have to agree with you. *Both* the ADHD (fidgeting and feeling of being driven from my work) distractions and the CDS (daydreaminess) distractions are mostly *internal.* I think it's a misconception that ADHD people are mainly distracted by outside things all the time
*However,* the way they present is *different.*
The ADHD side feels almost like an unruly child screaming at me to do anything but my work. I fidget and shake as a coping mechanism (not that it helps much).
The CDS symptoms don't appear on the outside as much. I instead happen to drift away in thought and cannot keep my focus on what I'm doing without my mind constantly thinking about something else. It also prevents me from "connecting the dots" so to speak so i can't figure out or even remember what I was doing or working on.
Small doses of amphetamine are all I can handle, and they typically *only* address the ADHD symptoms I described above. The CDS symptoms are usually affected little to not at all.
All in all, this (or maybe these) disorder has been an absolute nightmare for me, and still is!
Thank you for sharing your experiences and the challenge of disentangling CDS and ADHD in real people.
@@DrJohnKruse Thank you for all that you do to help others manage and be more educated on these terrible disorders! I don't think people understand just how variable and disabling they can be in our lives.
@@DANGJOS you're welcome!
What I would like to know is, how to approach children in educational setting that may have this compared to inattentive or mixed ADHD? Could this perhaps be another type of ADHD? There's no point of mentioning about getting tested as in this country there is a dire shortage of psychologists and negative attitude towards mental health issues. Teachers just try to help as much as we can.
SAD is definitely real. I lived in Finland in my teens. I became depressed every year like a clockwork, and every year it also lifted within the same time period! (There was always at least a couple of months delay at both ends while the hormone levels were adjusting to the light.)
When I emigrated to England, my winter depression wasn't nearly as noticeable: my SAD was so mild that the first two years I didn't even recognise I had it, but found excuses for my lack of energy and chronic low mood.
Now that I live in the tropical zone, I only start feeling depressed if I don't go out during the daylight for weeks and weeks, or if I am wearing really dark sunglasses all the time.
I have all of the symptoms but I have a sleep disorder and hypercortisolism after experiencing years of extreme stress and trauma. I have been burned out for years. But I still don't have a single, unifying diagnosis.
Do you need one ?
I check off every symptom, diagnosis, and medication box you listed. More therapy for me.
Myself and my son. I am just a few minutes into the video, so you may discuss this, but I am also interested in whether there is any correlation to other symptoms such as lower muscle tone, late walking, need for braces to learn to walk, poor coordination, always struggling with physical activities as compared to other children but not impaired enough to look "disabled" (tagged as physically lazy instead). Examples: but both me and, my son couldn't do monkey bars or climb the rope that hung from the ceiling in PE tests when other kids could, both of us were the slowest at running, my son took the stairs by meeting both his feet on one step togerhert rather than one foot per step for years, my son always struggled with his body in space. An example would be any time he learned something that was fine or gross motor skill, he struggled to mimic with his own body what he was seeing the other person do. Even as he got older. So, if you are showing him how to hold a certain object, he needed explicit descriptions of where to place each finger in relation to the object. And often hand over hand assistance. It seemed to me to be both an issue with the cognitive processing of the task, as if he couldn't put his attention on the correct aspect of what to notice and a physical deficit in how to move his body (or cogbituve again related to motor control). There seems to be a proprioception deficit as well. He is sensory seeking and still at 16 ends up with his fingers in his mouth despite being a physically fit kid that works out, lifts weights, is in Honors cl!ases in homeschool. All because we've worked so hard. He needs much more repetition to learn to do physical things. And even now that he appears fit, he is slower and struggles with coordination. Swimming was great for him and I think it was because he got the proprioception feedback from the water.
We both also suffered from chronic respiratory illnesses as children. I had my son tested for all allergies and asthma. He had a physical croup cough every year well past the typical age when most all kids outgrow it because their bodies grow out of it. Every year he had bronchitis infections. Swimming 3 to 5 days per week was the only thing that fixed it.
What I am getting at is I hate just always had this feeling that there is some underlying connection between the cluster of symptoms you speak about in this video or ASHD-Inattentive (which both my son and I are diagnosed with), and a cluster of physical symptoms. And to me the common thread is delay in development and underdevelopment.
Another thing both my son and I had was we were both the last to start puberty among our peers. My son is a full 2 years behind his peers in physical puberty.
Another thing my son had but I don't remember having were sensory issues when he was younger that have gone away. Fir years, he would flush the toilet, cover his ears, and run. I used to think he may have Central Auditory Processing Disorder, even though I know its existence is not fully established. But I was looking for sets of symptoms.
Neither my son nor myself are medicated for our ADHD-Inattentive.
You are such an engaged and supportive parent for your son, he is so fortunate to have you.
@rosewild7142 oh my goodness, I almost cried reading this. I love him so much. It is just him and myself. He is such a great, caring person and hard worker. I'm so lucky to be his mom. Thank you for your kind words
I would also wonder, particularly with the allergy/asthma symptoms whether part of the link is auto-immune (I have a video about ADHD and auto-immune issues). Unfortunately there is still so much we don't know about mind body connections, but lots of active investigation is going on.
@DrJohnKruse Thank you for your reply. I have two diagnosed autoimmune conditions and am often suspected of a third. Another body symptom my son and I share us hypermobility and general body issues like hyperlirdosis, promoting feet, hyperextension knees, etc.
I remember having read that there's a fairly high level of co-morbidity between ADHD, ASD, dyspraxia and Ehlers Danlos Syndrom (EDS). All of those disorders also seem to increase the risks of GI issues, sleep disorders and autoimmune disorders.
Woah i have this 100% no dr has figured it out. I slur confused unable to find the worss and i zone out in the middle of a conversation ive tried cognitive suppliments and caffeen nothing really works. Need a solution im tired alot during rhe day but really love being up during the night
Yeah same here. I was diagnosed with ASD but I went from thinking I had severe ADHD (inattentive type) to half that and half CDS. I don’t think I have ASD, I don’t care about routines, but I could easily see how I could’ve been misdiagnosed if those two were present. There’s only so much behaviours a neurotypical child can do and I believe my mum has ADHD, and it’s known to run if families.
When I’m in public, I feel like I’m in a fog, I’m just not there in any conversation. When I’m at home, I don’t get that too much unless I’m with more than 1 person, then it gets bad.
My poor mother at 86 has been like this her entire life. About five years ago was FINALLY diagnosed with adhd. She may have THIS.
I feel like this is me. What should i do about it? It has affected my ability to find a job or start a meaningful career...
Whole foods Diet helps my symptoms immensely.
Query/ thinking out loud. "Fugue Epilepsy" Dissociative symptoms of epilepsy? Symptoms, especially in focal epilepsy of temporal lobe origin, may include dissociative-like experiences such as déjà vu/jamais vu, depersonalization, derealization and what has been described as a “dreamy state”.
You just described me. ADHD meds never worked . Ive been told that it may be anxiety induced. Father died suddenly at age 6 then lving with emotinally physically abusive alcoholic mother. Being born a "sensitive kid" and you can imagine why now at 61 I am 100% isolated. I have tried for decades to undo the danage or drop the past etc spent thousands on alternative modalities and still completely fkd. Never married no kids no family no close friends. To meet me you would never guess this. Im a compassionate person and not a "weirdo" although years of isolation is starting to make me feel weird socially so I just talk less. Im disappearing. I wish we had what canada has where I can leave this life if it is unfixable. Beleive me this is unfixable
Here I am 20 years behind you. The only thing I want in this life is a partner. Don't need kids, doubt it's in my scope at my age. Anyone I have ever been close to is dead already.
I can't even get my life together to move forward with it and the only person holding me back is me. Similarly, I am admired socially and have no enemies in my life.
Wow, most of those symptoms sound like me...I hate it. Like, I can't focus on more than 30 seconds on a conservation without my mind wandering.
I don't see a psychiatrist, but I do have a neurologist/sleep specialist. Could I bring this up with my neurologist? I'm 39 years old and was diagnosed with type 2 narcolepsy at the age of 12 due to these symptoms. Right now, I'm prescribed armodafinil, which helps me focus, but strangely, it makes my daytime sleepiness worse. To me, it seems that CDS describes all the symptoms and traits I experience daily more so than the symptoms of narcolepsy.
I think it is certainly worth bringing up, that's something you can control from your end. What the neurologist does with that information is hard to predict. Some are attentive to whatever is going on with their patients, and many, somewhat surprisingly, don't want to have anything to do with behavioral/cognitive/emotional "psychiatric issues".
tms seems to have improved my cognitive fog when it was supposed to help depression
Interesting. I'm diagnosed ADHD as an adult, LD program in grade school. I'm an engineering graduate, public university program. But during conversations with my romantic partner, my brain checks out and I'm always asking her to repeat herself. It's an internal distraction.
Does cds come with tremors? Son has both
I'm not aware of a particular association between these two, but I haven't seen studies looking for a connection.
I’ve had these symptoms since I was 4 I’m 26 now I might go talk to my doctor about this.
Sounds like being depressed and bored AF. Also sounds like symptoms of depression.
Maybe there is a connection, clinical depression causing CDS.
Why do all these personality disorders sound like dementia and magically turn into dementia later in life?
Some similarities and overlap, but also significant differences. Many people with personality disorders don't develop dementia.
There's a video that I saw a long time ago about something called 'ADHD Waiting Mode' it didn't have a diagnosis, but it was similar to this, like long periods of just no energy and then energy. I go through this often and found a timer helped, but also started using a custom GPT to self therapy myself out of this mode that has been very very effective for me - please reach out if you would like to try it out
It sounds like there is some overlap with CDS, but with CDS it seems to be an ever-present way that the brain works, not episodic.
Hey Bob, I'm interested in this. Could you provide details?
you mean mentally checking out?
How do we know this isn’t just adhd layered with cptsd?
Having those conditions could certainly make diagnose tricky, but cptsd doesn't tend to make thoughts dreamy and slow, more often they are anxious and centered around threats and perceived threats.
@DrJohnKruse why do you need to discern? Is changing much for people or possible remedies?
@@annelbeab8124 for many people, just knowing what they are dealing with, and that they are not alone in dealing with it, and knowing how it differs from similar conditions can be tremendously helpful.
@DrJohnKruse I find it at times artificial to make a person fit to a certain 'disease'. It's confusing and has the downside of people identifying with it. I think the symptoms are often correctly described, no question, but I'm more interested in how much is a natural part of us or a 'hindrance by nurture'. Nurture often binds to nature. Here it's often a heightened perception with combines in times of lack of safety into hypervigilance (and/or hyperactivity).
If we discern that, we may enjoy our nature and regulate the patterns hijacking it better. That's why I'm careful with being too obsessed about diagnosis within a given medical system. As it doesn't answer all the questions, it's rather a description of clustered traits.
I hope I get across what my point is.
@@annelbeab8124 all of your points make sense to me.
Isn't being a "dreamy" person a personality trait? Are we trying to eliminate all "person" from "personality"? You cannot control Everything...
Nope, it's not an attempt to eliminate personality. If you are happy dreaming, great. This becomes a problem when someone who has CDS behaviors wants to focus, wants to stop dreaming, wants to be productive and can't do so.
Sounds like me...I do smoke a lot of weed though. A lot. Almost every hour for about 15 yrs now. Definitely affected my mental clarity I feel.
Creatine helped my concentration. As well as phosphatidylserine.
Yes . I took Ritalin for a few days and it made me freak out.
You got freaky?
i disengage because i dont like repetitive social conversations that are meaningless and insincere and am therefore uninterested. not because i am ill. when properly intellectually stimulated i am completely engaged and functional.
That's fine. It doesn't sound like CDS applies to you.
How many of these kids/people are using screens more than 3 hours a day? How much can be helped by kids just getting outside for 3 hours a day or more?
Many of the studies go back as many as thirty years, well before smartphones were even available.
I like to listen to good music while sipping a beer at the end of the day. But I'm busy. No time to engage in my hobbies. If I do have a day off I'm so exhausted I'll just sit. But there's always plenty to do.
I watched the whole video, so hopefully i didn't miss this, but how is this different from maladaptive daydreaming?
Thank you!
Sounds like me but it got way worse after being in an awful relationship for 10 years.
Or it's an elderly person, always been depressed person , who went through the past few years , many losses . Also having an autoimmune disorder, ascending aortic aneurysm , a chance of having detached retina's and weed that's what I name it
I wonder if this syndrome is associated with media multitasking. A researcher named Wagner from Stanford is researching the effects of multitasking on attention and performance. (In conjunction with numerous other labs, fortunately).
Before the advent of TH-cam shorts or TikTok, I noticed people were more engaged and less exhausted. Anecdotal of course but I’d love to see more research on the topic.
I ran across the full DSM IV a few days ago (thick book prob at least 300 pages long) and saw a description of avoidant personality disorder as 2 pages long. Which DSM are we on now? Is it DSM-V? Bc if it maintains at around ~2, a 2 page description seems to be a joke. Like really - as in DSM-IV the two pages wasn't even that descriptive or comprehensive
DSM-5TR. The brevity is intentional, and part of it is explained by reliance on lots of jargon, so many of the terms have specific meanings that differ from how the general public may use the words.
This sounds just like me. Before this, the closest label I’ve found Inattentive ADHD. Perhaps I have both as you describe. 🤔
This is what i call : "Checked Out". Its a term we used growing up in the 80's. Are we making up new labels now ??!?? Please.
Most of the people I knew who were "checked out" were making conscious choices to disengage from society, mostly because they didn't like the content of their society. CDS is about how people process the world, and themselves, not primarily about not liking the content of our modern world.
"Prove it to me, and I'll still not believe it" -Ford Prefect 🎉
What else do you do when existence is torture, besides check out mentally?
Are there any sleep studies done in conjunction with these studies? Also, when describing "DAN" I wondered what if any relation there is to dementia?
Most of those symptoms sound like depression. Interestingly I've read that Wellbutrin can help ADHD.
I have a video on this channel about Wellbutrin for ADHD. th-cam.com/video/RDppJlBlDiE/w-d-xo.html