Here is the thing- apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention. I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many TH-cam articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down including Talktv This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away! I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed
I do find the avoidance of mentioning Private Eye uncomfortable. Yes, they were not the first, but they have doggedly been reporting on this for many years and do deserve mention, if only to represent the timeline appropriately. Frankly we've also been let down by the failure of journalists at large to seize on this scandal in plain sight. The biggest miscarriage of justice of our time has also been one of the worst kept secrets of our time. Evidence, as we see now, was all over the place and the cases against all of these people were paper thin. It's really important that the public can trust the journalistic profession to shine a light on stories such as this, because this case shows us just how capitulation to the corporate interest over the public's ruins the lives of hundreds of innocent people for decades and how even now we still don't know if there will ever be true accountability.
I find it profoundly frustrating that it is only now, after a well-made TV dramatisation, that anyone is paying serious attention to this appalling scandal. Computer Weekly has been covering this since 2009, Private Eye since 2011, Panorama since 2015. This is not a new story! Justice delayed is justice denied.
It's very shameful. If we, the public, owe money to any state run company they are demanding payment within days. DAYS!! If other way around it takes years. They don't want to pay out. They don't care if people suffer or die waiting. Disgusting.
It's really not the case, though. It's weird they keep saying that. Millions of us have been following the story for years. Most likely they're framing it that way to make themselves look less negligent. There's been many stories and videos all over the internet going back years. Don't trust any news outlet that tries to push that narrative, especially Global & the BBC.
Paula Vennells MUST have known, as must her predecessors. They were happy to receive tens of millions in salary whilst knowing full well about the misery they were causing.
@@orcharddweller1109they were not subject to true external scrutiny because they are essentially civil service, when they engaged Second Sight & then realised that the findings Second Sight were coming up with didn't suit their narrative they sacked them.
The first investigation into Horizon was published in 2009 by Computer Weekly after a year-long investigation by its reporter Rebecca Thomson and was picked up the following year by Private Eye who have never since then stopped running this story on a regular basis so what did these two publications see that the main stream printed media inadvertently completely missed or more likely and this is just my opinion,chose to miss.
It has been picked up by main stream media. BBC were all over it 4 years ago, and there have been occasional reports. You need to read the papars and react then. Not wait for some mass hysteria. Like Savile this has all been in plain sight. There were nearly 900 post masters and mistresses effected. Given the 665 MP's that means at least 1 per MP, in some cases 2 or 3. Hands up those who've written to their MP about the tainted blood scandal. 50 years and still to be resolved, Shrewsbury Hospital (20 yrs), Windrush. If not don't complain about this. We are all in some way to blame for letting our MP's and the corporate establishment get away with it.
Cultures, on one side, a powerful organisation who believed they were being ripped off by sub Asian immigrants and other 'nobodies', and the actual sub-postmasters, trying to get a living.
My regard for the government ministers, Post Office hierarchy ( Vennells ) and all persons involved with this scandal, couldn't be any lower than it is. As you say, if these people are not jailed, especially Vennells, I will leave the country. You have my word.
When I worked for a Government department,Fujitsu provided the computers. They were so often down ( at least an hour a day) they had to open an onsite office to deal with constant problems. They were paid £540 million for something not fit for purpose.
Yeap, all these big software developers are the same, the management of the customer don't have a clue, the testers don't know what they are testing, no one has a %*#@ clue.
Like the data thieves Amazon? Or the data thieves Google? Or the data thieves Faeces Book? They were corrupt because the education system, that supports the self-appointed elites, trains them to be like that. Look at the history of India, Kenya, et al., where the English trained the local staff, and those local staff maintained the corruption into their country's future.
Here is the thing- apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention. I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many TH-cam articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down including Talktv This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away! I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed
@@ryanchrisxp This will come as a shock to you, but other countries in the world have electricity, TV, computers, the i/net, and corrupt businesses. It is never ALL about the Ultra Secure Asylum.
This. The very notion that over 700 people spread across villages and towns across the uk, working for the same organisation, would suddenly start stealing is simply preposterous
Obvious question. When did the errors stop ? Unless they are still occurring today, somebody has identified and rectified the systems error. So, it was known about and fixed therefore the Post Office has willfully prosecuted people after the fact and defended the indefensible. Heads must roll
Thanks for your comments. I was struck by a parallel with mis-management at the CoOperative Bank a few years ago, where the guy in charge was revealed, eventually, to be a mendacious drug addicted charlaton. Like Paula Venells, he too was a church lay minister which falsely enhanced his credibility for probity and honesty. We are still waiting for a comment from the Church of England about Paula Venell's position with them in the light of her dishonesty and callous disregard for the well-being of her sub-postmaster staff.
The next thing that needs a light shining on it is those accused of benefit fraud when it's all down to DWP negligence but its easier to blame those without power
"Freedom for my friends... for my enemies, the rules" - Arab proverb. [ How long would it take you to get a £500 bank loan? Consider tory peer Michelle Mone getting £69M from the tory govt for faulty PPE in just a matter of days as opposed to the 3 years [on going] of the current inquiry into the Post Office scam ]
can you imagine the uproar if there is little or no accountability? there HAS to be accountability given the focus there is on this situation. I am so angry about this.
There was a similar scandal in the Netherlands where the tax authorities wrongly accused up to 26,000 families of fraudulently claiming child benefit support. This led to the collapse and resignation of the government. The comparisons are there but the final outcome somewhat different
This is such an absolutely incredible scandal that it’s almost impossible to believe!! Why wouldn’t the government listen to literally hundreds of innocent people who were all making the same complaints about the faulty computer software in the application system?? Regardless of what Fujitsu says… listen to the innocent Post Masters and Mistresses who had been loyal for so many years beforehand. It’s so shocking. People needs to be compensated £100,000 plus and those responsible prosecuted!!
It’s not just compensation, what about the money that these people had to pay back?! This should have been dealt with by the post office straight away.
Justice might finally be done in the sense that the wronged might be exonerated and compensated. But the wrong-doers will never be held to account. The machine will always protect its own.
A lady who helps me with my cleaning said that she used to work in the Post Office and had to pay £500.00 shortfall. There must be thousands of these people.
I think over the years there were. But don't forget that before Horizon genuine errors were likely to level out. Some gains, some losses. For some reasons, that are still a mystery, it seems that the computer failures were always to the advantage of............ ?? POL ? Fujitsu?? Someone else??
Did the Horizon system ever show that a Post Office's account was erroneously in CREDIT? If not, then this suggests either systematic theft / corruption inside Jujitsu and / or corporate theft by The Post Office.
I heard a postmaster this morning on the Today programme and he told that there were also miscalculations in the plus. But maybe by the business of a post office (more withdrawals than adding money) there was a larger chance that a number in the negative was at the end?
There WERE a few cases where there were errors in credit. I doubt whether the Post Office considered prosecuting any of those involved in these instances, though. I can't see any reason why Paula Vennells should not be tried in court.
Postmaster were told that they could keep the positive differences where the fact that they were not in balance was an indicator of a problem just as much as negative
CapGemini, formerly EDS who were effectively struck off the list as incompetent. I worked for CapGemini after the take over and they made radical improvements to the working practices, but if they have slipped since fair enough with your comments. Fujitsu has always had a dodgy reputation in the IT industry and apparently rightly so.
yeah but who chose them, the permies working in government. typical blame culture when they were the ones who were mismanaging the projects not the suppliers.
It will be swept the rug like normal. A big song and dance then forgotten. In fact Ukraine has been not in the news recently. Fujitsu will say sorry and that will be that. There still getting contracts now.
The media certainly did not ignore it - it was all over BBC radio in 2020 and the Daily Mail also, as well as a top computer weekly mag -going back to 2009. People need to look further than their nose and TV screen to find out what is going on.
It isn’t just the Post Office who bring prosecutions, The DWP, RSPCA and I’m sure many others bring their own prosecutions. This needs looking at - the CPS should be there to ensure impartiality. But the problem is that the CPS is understaffed and, at times, pretty incompetent itself. Can’t help feeling the PO scandal is the tip of the iceberg.
There were about 15000 sub-post Offices when the Horizon accounting system was brought in. It's quite likely that of all of those sub-post offices were effected.
Why did it take a television drama shown over the last few weeks to to get everyone jumping up and down about a scandal that started over 20 years ago.
There have been plenty of documentaries about this scandal on the BBC over the years. Sadly those sort of programmes don't reach a mass audience. The great strength about the ITV drama is that it attracted a large number of viewers and told the story in a way which connected with people's emotions. But the politicians knew about this scandal all the time and chose to ignore it.
Astonishing to learn that the UK government has awarded an IT contract in 2024 to Fujitsu, despite allegations of supplying Horizon to the PO knowing that it was not fit for the purpose being in the public domain.
One detailed but I think important point is that the Post Office had a minimal in-house IT department. The IT function was outsourced - not sure to whom. But this meant that the Post Office top management were distanced from the on the ground operation of their IT systems. They failed to ask the right questions. It is a massive failure of the Post Office management. That Paula Vennells was given a CBE is just breathtaking. The Post Office must be stripped of their powers of their prosecution.
This scandal has been regularly reported in Private Eye and other places. If an award is needed it’s for the investigative journalists who made the dramatisation possible.
We have a severe attitude problem in this country whereby anything goes so long as you don't get caught, this makes our establishment and indeed much of our society dishonest and corrupt which in turn removes the respect that people once had for authority, law and order and honest dealing. Integrity has truly been consigned to the trash can here in the UK.
Does anyone really think that any person high up in the post office or fujitsu will face justice or prison time !!! Will all know they will walk away with a slap on wrist ! One law for the rich and powerful and one law for the ordinary person on the street. It makes me sick .
This warrants a Public Inquiry finding that recommends bringing criminal charges against the senior management who undertook these private prosecutions
Nobody comes out of this very well, not even the Labour Party during whose period in government the problems started and the cases started to go to court. But the major blame must be laid fairly and squarely at the door of the Post Office and Fujitsu. There must be fraud prosecutions as a consequence of this - maybe even perjury. Lies were clearly told. Cases like this are nothing new. My Gran took a government to court in 1953 after she slipped on an oily floor at work and broke her back. The department fought the case and her supervisor and foreman both told fibs in court. The judge found in my Gran’s favour and told the two witnesses they were very lucky not to be done for perjury.
Not just perjury. Instructing post office officials to tell individual subpostmasters that they were “the only ones” seems to point to some kind of conspiracy.
I think we need an independent whistle blowing organisation where people could report things like this, problems could be spotted and the independent body could raise concerns detached from government and business.
Sounds nice, but who funds it and who enforces mandates without government involved? Supposing individuals do band together and do something like this, why am I paying so much taxes to a government I’m having to personally audit? What punishment is there for government entities that fail a public audit? I guess you can do the democratic thing and no vote people into these positions, but a lot of these positions aren’t elected in the first place, they’re appointed.
I have been following the public enquiry for several months now and one thing that stood out was the poor quality of the PO Investigation and Audit staff. They seemed to mainly have been made up of former postmen and counter-staff given the minimum of training before being unleashed on to the hapless Post Masters. One fundamental mistake they seemed to make was that they did not "follow the money". Did they check that the postmaster was suddenly taking lavish foreign holidays, buying expensive clothes, was there a new and expensive car or boat on the driveway? Of course they did not .They did not they just assumed that the money had been stolen without any concrete proof and prosecuted. Another thing that came out in the enquiry is the mass amnesia of these people when questioned. They could not recall attending certain meetings, or sending certain emails. even when the enquiry has shown them copies of meeting logs and emails.
As a former sub postmaster who sold my business a year before horizon can you tell me if any Branch Managers or staff all employed by Post Office Counters ltd using the same horizon system were ever prosecuted? Or as I suspect orders were given that loses in the branch offices being shown were to be covered up .
The innocent people that was found guilty by the simple fact, that those in charge of the Post office perjured themselves by lying and altering evidence by the the Horizon company Fujitsu, who stated that there was bugs in their system and that could account for the errors at the small post offices however, the question that has to be asked is did the Post office auditors uncover the bugs in the Horizon system and cover it up.
I am genuinely amazed that not one of these falsely accused took the law into their own hands. It shows a decency in these people that leaves me humbled
I have watched hours of the enquiry. Almost everyday the next person tells bigger lies than the previous person. I can only conclude that those who tell the biggest lies wins. So many basic error. I can only conclude that the Judges were prejudiced. The more people protested their innocence the more guilty they were. I now understand there are over 4,000 claims.
It took the ITV Drama department to do what journalists like Maitlis and Sopel should have done ten years ago!!!! And yet they now pontificate about the subject - they should be ashamed and called out for their spineless behaviour.
Yes, it took a documentary to prove that people have the right to a pension to which they are entitled. Still, the government changed that right and for 6 years made ladies work or if made redundant or lost their jobs had no way to redress that change or any amount of money that was to pay for the future living cost and yet that money that should have been paid to these that worked for so long and have not received any justice.
I recall several times where Maitlis, when discussing something to do with Boris Johnson, referring to him only by his first name, as if they were chums.
Nah, many corners of the media have been banging on about this for years. The sad reality is the British public needs to see pictures of a crime with dramatic music before they care about it. If there wasn’t this visceral reaction to the TV drama by the public, there wouldn’t have been anything more than the smallest ripple of attention by the government.
To be fair to them they worked for the bbc so probably constrained. Sopel was North American correspondent for many years. Unfortunately the BBB like to focus on Prince Andrew and Diana.
Notice how she mentions all the media that have taken this up except the Private Eye which has been running this story for years and years - they have obviously picked up some on Emily's dodgey journalism somewhere down the line
Why did the figures always go UP and NEVER DOWN? There is more to this. There could well have been people outside of the Post Office community filling their pockets.
I wonder how the many members of the public who chastised spat on and condemned their local post masters and post mistresses ,quite out of hand ,are feeling now---do they suffer from their consciences I wonder, will they go any way towards restitution.
I left UK 15 years ago and found my corner of the world .... the failure of government was obvious then .... outraged and sad for the latest victims and every other mistake and hardship the government has instilled which I've witnessed over the years confirms I made the right move.
I am a South African living in South Africa. And I am incensed at the injustice!!! I am following this story, for I want to see EVERYONE responsible , from those who were in top management at the post office at that time, to members of government who looked the other way, to be held fully accountable!!!! This injustice is beyond outrageous!!!!! Heads need to roll. And not just out of the door, but throw those who were responsible in ruining the lives of so many innocent people and their families, with NO exception, in prison!!!
what about the other postmasters/mistresses that were bankrolling the short falls in their branches that weren't sufficient enough to lead to prosecution?
Has anyone asked if the Horizon problems were a useful way of pushing forward the Post Office branch closure program? Maybe just a coincidence the two were going forward at the same time?
Spot on and part of the agenda. Way above the post office. It was privatised for a reason. The thing is that UN ordered no more paper from 2025. Creating excuses to abolish the post office will assist in that. This means all to be on computers, and we all know how important things are altered or deleted from the web and more. The actual criminals in control and their obedient servants should have proceeds of crime upon all they and their families own until honest auditors work out what was right and just for them to be paid. Major shareholders also. Were businesses such as Blackrock and Vanguard invested? It was timed to become higher profile now. The documentary could be have been made and screened years ago. See? They wouldn't be able to declare it bankrupt and abolish it if it were still owned by the public. See?
What we're mainly seeing are effects and impacts. To understand how it got to effects and impacts, they need to start back with the procurement, which is usually where the problem's begin.
Same old chestnut most people are disgusted by such goings on in a publicly owned corporation! One thing I can't get my head round is when Jo at her post office in Hampshire queried a shortfall of £2000 and was told to do something to rectify it ,it in actual fact doubled to £4000 ,didn't someone notice this? Mind you I have had to deal with councils and most of the public services in my working life and some of the things I have come across you would not believe although fortunately not as bad as this. Now these departments are the ones with no money, frankly I am not surprised!
For me, from the city of Liverpool, this quarter century fight for justice for sub-postmasters so eerily echoes the fight for Hillsborough victims amid far reaching government cover-ups.
The post office pocketing the funds the illegally expressed from the post masters and mistresses should come under the general heading of profiting from the profits of crime!
But we should have been finding the lies from the beginning. Why did the lawyers for the defence not understand that the software companies have to have access. I think the Bar Council should be e looking at its membership as should the accountancy bodies to whom the auditors belong.
I agree , behind the head line they know more the one was been charged! But they just went with the fellow. There should be a lot a people charged. But never will happen.
shocking a tv serie needed done to get the ball moving, this lot cover for themselves. They all speak so nice them people, they always say, I BEEN CLEAR they say, i can't stand this lot anymore, same with politicians.
It seems pretty unbelievable that, with so many sub post people involved, that they weren’t talking to one another about their problems and comparing notes. Perhaps they were but no one was listening. The software Company, Fujitsu have,for a long time, been awarded Government Contracts with huge amounts of taxpayers money dished out. Surely this Company should now give some of that money back by being held responsible for compensation payments.
Not only that but their "Union" the Federation disowned them refused to back Postmasters up and told the world "the system is robust" With friends like that you do not need enemies.Later it emerged the PO would fund the Federation in return from their support.
Binge watched TV show last night and debate in house commons. Utterly appaled that such an injustice and mass conspiracy has occurred but not in the least surprised that people in power have crushed ordinary working people. They should all £1mil tomorrow in their bank accounts. The emotional and financial damage for some of over 20 years is incalculable but 1 mil might be a start. No faith whatever that anyone will ever be bought to account either
This was a low quality contribution from the News Agents. They moaned that no one took the PO scandal seriously until the TV drama - why didn't THEY cover this in depth before? A bit of introspection would have been appropriate. And they didn't talk at all about the systemic issues that led to it, beyond David Davis saying its hard to allocate blame in big bureaucracies. Why didnt they go into this? We've had so many scandals from the great banking crash to VW dieselgate, why didnt they discuss how to fix corporate accountability? Not even a decent discussion about the PO's right to prosecute and how this should be addressed. What other organisations have this right? What other quangos have powers that should really be reserved for government? Come on, guys
It should be noted that Sunak as Chancellor has approved payments over 4 billion to Fujitsu notwithstanding by that time the concerns regarding Horizon were apparent…….
Absolutely the post office and the government have to take responsibility. That there were bugs in the accounting software should have been examined, addressed to Fujitsu and monitored from the outset. It seems to me the only thing the accused post masters had in common was access to the software. How was this not a sign of something wrong with the accounting system, and why was there not sufficient digital oversight in govt? Fujitsu, who acquired the UK company which developed the software, will probably fight compensation though they should answer for their involvement. However digital errors, hacking, data breaches etc. are part of everyday life now. There are over 1000 cyberattacks a week in Japan. When Fujitsu was hacked in 2023, they were rebuked by the Govt and warned to upgrade security, and there was huge criticism that the hack detection took a whole 8 months. I agree with the idea that this is mostly bureaucratic self-preservation. What a nightmare Britain has become. My sympathies are with these families, what a travesty.
The Loan Charge Scandal is next. HMRC/Treasury acting as ‘judge , jury & executioner, & people committing suicide, & many others selling their homes & declaring bankruptcy, due to an issue of mis-selling, & not having their day in court. THIS needs its own ITV drama.!
I'm surprised you didn't mention Private Eye, who not only are generous in pointing out that Computer Weekly broke this story but have been tenacious bulldogs on this since 2011.
Class action Complaints to the Solicitors Regulation Authority about ALL solicitors working at and for the Post Office during the period of these prosecutions
Weren’t they obliged to pay because in their contract they were responsible for shortfalls? I feel they maybe weren’t actually accused of theft. Post Office wouldn’t have been able to prove it. Also - if the computer program failed why weren’t there any « too much money » situations. They say someone else had access to the system. Who?
Who is to blame? Blair, the man who presided over the implementation of Horizon Fujitsu, who developed Horizon The establishment who covered up and rewarded each other with medals and honours The media who knew about this for 20 yrs yet chose to mention it only after a TV drama Cameron, the PM who initiated the sale of the Post Office Cable, the Trade and industry minister Davey who directly ignored the pleas of Post Masters as the Post Office minister The judiciary who happily dished our punitive sentences as a warning to others. Sentences that weren’t even dished out to people who carried out physical harm The list is long, is all parties and the 2 people discussing who is to blame patently knew all about this for years yet never saw fit to highlight it in their position as very senior media figures
The senior Management team at the Post Office should all be prosecuted for Perverting the Course of Justice. They all knew Horizon was faulty but preferred innocent people were convicted than admit the Post Office (and Fujitsu) could make mistakes.
Everyone speaking about this needs to be sure to refer to 'notional' 'perceived' 'or even 'imaginary' losses/shortfalls. It's obvious that some people at the post office still imagine that money went missing. They don't seem to grasp the concept that the computer system 'invented' the shortages and no actual money disappeared FROM THE POST OFFICE. The only money that DID 'vanish' is that which belonged to the accused postmasters. There was no hole which needed to be filled by the money that was 'repaid'. That money, plus interest, should be immediately returned to all the people from whom it was stolen. This should be immediate. Compensation is another matter which needs to be dealt with quickly but at least give them back THEIR OWN MONEY which was wrongly claimed from them.
Justice isn't just about compensation and pardons, it's about sending those who deliberately ruined lives to cover up their incompetence to prison. No one from any corporate sector is sent to prison, all these people walk free while the little people pick up the pieces! Why do governments continue refusing to pass a law where the top of the company is held automatically accountable and goes to prison for the wrong doing of his or her company. We need to force an end to incompetent managers who deliberately employ incompetent people as it makes it easier to pass the buck. The buck should start at the top not at the bottom because the bottom is an easier target.
It should be quite easy to track down the tech support workers who, over the phone, lied to the postmasters about the computer glitches. They would have been fully aware of the problems at the time. I'm surprised that none of them have stepped forward as whistleblowers.
Very disappointed that you could not credit Private Eye for its coverage since 2011 - professional jealousy perhaps. Contrast that with Ian Hislop on HIGNFY when on being credited with his pursuit of this story, immediately credited Computer Weekly and BBC South. Please do better.
Don't forget Private Eye also kept banging on about this story
The most trustworthy journalism today. The papers are just gossip rags.
Blimey Maitlis & Sopel ex BBC lefties, is this where they go to die.
Here is the thing- apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention.
I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many TH-cam articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down including Talktv
This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away!
I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed
I do find the avoidance of mentioning Private Eye uncomfortable. Yes, they were not the first, but they have doggedly been reporting on this for many years and do deserve mention, if only to represent the timeline appropriately.
Frankly we've also been let down by the failure of journalists at large to seize on this scandal in plain sight. The biggest miscarriage of justice of our time has also been one of the worst kept secrets of our time. Evidence, as we see now, was all over the place and the cases against all of these people were paper thin.
It's really important that the public can trust the journalistic profession to shine a light on stories such as this, because this case shows us just how capitulation to the corporate interest over the public's ruins the lives of hundreds of innocent people for decades and how even now we still don't know if there will ever be true accountability.
They were the first and reported it nearly every week since the start.
I find it profoundly frustrating that it is only now, after a well-made TV dramatisation, that anyone is paying serious attention to this appalling scandal. Computer Weekly has been covering this since 2009, Private Eye since 2011, Panorama since 2015. This is not a new story! Justice delayed is justice denied.
Not forgetting the long-running Radio 4 podcast, which I followed all the way through with mounting horror.
It's very shameful. If we, the public, owe money to any state run company they are demanding payment within days. DAYS!! If other way around it takes years. They don't want to pay out. They don't care if people suffer or die waiting. Disgusting.
It's really not the case, though. It's weird they keep saying that. Millions of us have been following the story for years. Most likely they're framing it that way to make themselves look less negligent.
There's been many stories and videos all over the internet going back years. Don't trust any news outlet that tries to push that narrative, especially Global & the BBC.
Couldn't agree more.
@@vilebrequin6923 Got to second you there. This is a fantastic series and should have been enough on its own to trigger the current response
Paula Vennells MUST have known, as must her predecessors. They were happy to receive tens of millions in salary whilst knowing full well about the misery they were causing.
I hope she sleeps well. Dispicable individual
She did know spent all her time trying to hide that It was wrong!!
Why else would she be so hesitant to provide copies of requested emails, software printouts, and information from Fujitsu???😅
Where were the Post Office's external auditors? Total incompetence not to investigate this issue.
One of the Auditors was interviewed and advised they were fired by the Post Office when they raised issues with the numbers.
Someone who can be fired internally cannot be an external auditor.
@@NeuroDeviant421 The external auditor's services were cancelled before their report was produced. Better now, my pedantic friend?
This was going on for years, did they sack a different auditing company every year?
@@orcharddweller1109they were not subject to true external scrutiny because they are essentially civil service, when they engaged Second Sight & then realised that the findings Second Sight were coming up with didn't suit their narrative they sacked them.
The first investigation into Horizon was published in 2009 by Computer Weekly after a year-long investigation by its reporter Rebecca Thomson and was picked up the following year by Private Eye who have never since then stopped running this story on a regular basis so what did these two publications see that the main stream printed media inadvertently completely missed or more likely and this is just my opinion,chose to miss.
It has been picked up by main stream media. BBC were all over it 4 years ago, and there have been occasional reports.
You need to read the papars and react then. Not wait for some mass hysteria. Like Savile this has all been in plain sight.
There were nearly 900 post masters and mistresses effected. Given the 665 MP's that means at least 1 per MP, in some cases 2 or 3.
Hands up those who've written to their MP about the tainted blood scandal. 50 years and still to be resolved, Shrewsbury Hospital (20 yrs), Windrush. If not don't complain about this.
We are all in some way to blame for letting our MP's and the corporate establishment get away with it.
When Michael Keegan, husband of the Education Secretary was in charge.
Cultures, on one side, a powerful organisation who believed they were being ripped off by sub Asian immigrants and other 'nobodies', and the actual sub-postmasters, trying to get a living.
It makes me sick to my stomach that it is highly unlikely anyone will face prosecution for this unimaginable negligence and persecution .
My regard for the government ministers, Post Office hierarchy ( Vennells )
and all persons involved with this scandal, couldn't be any lower than it is.
As you say, if these people are not jailed, especially Vennells, I will leave the
country. You have my word.
I agree with you
I think all the cleaners at the post office will be jailed
I just can’t wait until they come out with the line ‘Post Office Executives are innocent until proven guilty’ 😡
I waiting for the “verdicts are in the post”
When I worked for a Government department,Fujitsu provided the computers.
They were so often down ( at least an hour a day) they had to open an onsite office to deal with constant problems.
They were paid £540 million for something not fit for purpose.
Usual total waste of taxpayers' money.
Fujitsu shouldn't ever be allowed to operate in this country again.
I wonder how many MPs have shares in Fujitsu.
Yeap, all these big software developers are the same, the management of the customer don't have a clue, the testers don't know what they are testing, no one has a %*#@ clue.
They will get away with it.
A society that requires a tv show to motivate it to deal with injustice, is about as corrupt as it gets.
Agree - next up Grenfell and Windrush the box set?
You're talking about the US, right? TV is the primary motivator here.
Like the data thieves Amazon? Or the data thieves Google? Or the data thieves Faeces Book? They were corrupt because the education system, that supports the self-appointed elites, trains them to be like that. Look at the history of India, Kenya, et al., where the English trained the local staff, and those local staff maintained the corruption into their country's future.
Here is the thing- apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention.
I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many TH-cam articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down including Talktv
This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away!
I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed
@@ryanchrisxp This will come as a shock to you, but other countries in the world have electricity, TV, computers, the i/net, and corrupt businesses. It is never ALL about the Ultra Secure Asylum.
This. The very notion that over 700 people spread across villages and towns across the uk, working for the same organisation, would suddenly start stealing is simply preposterous
My thoughts exactly, big red flag and totally ignored
The stupidity burns, doesn’t it. It’s painful
With no criminal record..unfuckingbelievable
With no criminal record..unfuckingbelievable
@@KantoCafe715 it's just so bleedin obvious that something wasn't right here
Obvious question. When did the errors stop ? Unless they are still occurring today, somebody has identified and rectified the systems error. So, it was known about and fixed therefore the Post Office has willfully prosecuted people after the fact and defended the indefensible.
Heads must roll
don't hold your breath....
Thanks for your comments. I was struck by a parallel with mis-management at the CoOperative Bank a few years ago, where the guy in charge was revealed, eventually, to be a mendacious drug addicted charlaton. Like Paula Venells, he too was a church lay minister which falsely enhanced his credibility for probity and honesty. We are still waiting for a comment from the Church of England about Paula Venell's position with them in the light of her dishonesty and callous disregard for the well-being of her sub-postmaster staff.
don't hold your breath mate....
The next thing that needs a light shining on it is those accused of benefit fraud when it's all down to DWP negligence but its easier to blame those without power
And the bureaucratic intimidation of the most vulnerable people in society through the Work Capability Assessments.
"Freedom for my friends... for my enemies, the rules" - Arab proverb. [ How long would it take you to get a £500 bank loan? Consider tory peer Michelle Mone getting £69M from the tory govt for faulty PPE in just a matter of days as opposed to the 3 years [on going] of the current inquiry into the Post Office scam ]
If only the families affected by it had the guts to sue Boris Johnson, Sunak, Truss etc about it..
@@Contextualiser16-tn8nd And find the money to do it ... which they haven't ... so it's not going to happen ... though it WAS a sensible suggestion.
THIS!
can you imagine the uproar if there is little or no accountability? there HAS to be accountability given the focus there is on this situation. I am so angry about this.
And Sir Ed Davey worked for the lawyers doing the 900 prosecutions for the Post Office.
They government have announced changes and week or so. It will be forgotten.
There was a similar scandal in the Netherlands where the tax authorities wrongly accused up to 26,000 families of fraudulently claiming child benefit support. This led to the collapse and resignation of the government. The comparisons are there but the final outcome somewhat different
This is such an absolutely incredible scandal that it’s almost impossible to believe!! Why wouldn’t the government listen to literally hundreds of innocent people who were all making the same complaints about the faulty computer software in the application system?? Regardless of what Fujitsu says… listen to the innocent Post Masters and Mistresses who had been loyal for so many years beforehand. It’s so shocking. People needs to be compensated £100,000 plus and those responsible prosecuted!!
when are the snr mgt of the Post Office and Fujitsu going to be prosecuted and go to prison for perverting the course of justice!
The 12th of never.
Don’t hold your breath…..
For both Companies, the issue of " proceeds of crime" may become a reality. What do u think?
It’s not just compensation, what about the money that these people had to pay back?! This should have been dealt with by the post office straight away.
Justice might finally be done in the sense that the wronged might be exonerated and compensated. But the wrong-doers will never be held to account. The machine will always protect its own.
For sure!
The Devil takes care of his own!
Ca£H might be nice, and no doubt partly welcomed but liberty illicitly taken is a hard one to recompense.
@@suzyqualcast6269 Totally agree. So someone should answer for this!
Yes the bosses, Lawyers, government officials and that woman will get away with it because the big guys always do.
Remember Baroness Mone "never mind I just lied to some journalists" as if it didn't matter. Well, this is why it matters.
A lady who helps me with my cleaning said that she used to work in the Post Office and had to pay £500.00 shortfall. There must be thousands of these people.
All of this to cover fictitious losses which eventually went to bolster POL profits and thus Bosses' bonuses and Shareholders' dividends.
I think over the years there were. But don't forget that before Horizon genuine errors were likely to level out. Some gains, some losses. For some reasons, that are still a mystery, it seems that the computer failures were always to the advantage of............ ?? POL ? Fujitsu?? Someone else??
Did the Horizon system ever show that a Post Office's account was erroneously in CREDIT? If not, then this suggests either systematic theft / corruption inside Jujitsu and / or corporate theft by The Post Office.
I heard a postmaster this morning on the Today programme and he told that there were also miscalculations in the plus. But maybe by the business of a post office (more withdrawals than adding money) there was a larger chance that a number in the negative was at the end?
Happen the PO's internal wannabe plod squad pocketed the difference, unbelieving at all the extra ca£h washing about.
It doesn't suggest this at all. You can quite easily have software problems that cause errors in one direction.
There WERE a few cases where there were errors in credit. I doubt whether the Post Office considered prosecuting any of those involved in these instances, though.
I can't see any reason why Paula Vennells should not be tried in court.
Postmaster were told that they could keep the positive differences where the fact that they were not in balance was an indicator of a problem just as much as negative
Sadly, Fujitsu (formerly known in the UK as ICL) is not the only government supplier who is responsible for IT problems.
CapGemini, Serco, Sodexo ,Deloitte, Mitie, Capita, G4S....
CapGemini, formerly EDS who were effectively struck off the list as incompetent. I worked for CapGemini after the take over and they made radical improvements to the working practices, but if they have slipped since fair enough with your comments.
Fujitsu has always had a dodgy reputation in the IT industry and apparently rightly so.
yeah but who chose them, the permies working in government. typical blame culture when they were the ones who were mismanaging the projects not the suppliers.
CapGemini were not formerly EDS. EDS were acquired by HP.
@markpowell548 Sorry, you are right. EDS formerly held the contract that Capgemini took over.
Fujitsu and Post Office manglement need to be held to account over this- this was a massive scandal that was largely ignored by our media.
Plus politicians like Steven Timms, Bliar, Mr Davey, Mrs Swinson and any other.
It will be swept the rug like normal. A big song and dance then forgotten. In fact Ukraine has been not in the news recently. Fujitsu will say sorry and that will be that. There still getting contracts now.
Apart from Private Eye who have reported on this for over 20 years.
The media certainly did not ignore it - it was all over BBC radio in 2020 and the Daily Mail also, as well as a top computer weekly mag -going back to 2009. People need to look further than their nose and TV screen to find out what is going on.
Absolute BS to say the media didn't cover it, it was quite extensively. I don't even live in the UK and was aware of it.
Question.. were any "performance bonuses" delayed?
It isn’t just the Post Office who bring prosecutions, The DWP, RSPCA and I’m sure many others bring their own prosecutions. This needs looking at - the CPS should be there to ensure impartiality. But the problem is that the CPS is understaffed and, at times, pretty incompetent itself. Can’t help feeling the PO scandal is the tip of the iceberg.
The people of this country won't allow it - they're deathly afraid of holding powerful people accountable
None should be allowed to prosecute anyone at all, without going through CPS
I’m sick of this country. Look after your friends and family, try not to pay taxes and stay out of the way of the govt, the justice system & media.
There were about 15000 sub-post Offices when the Horizon accounting system was brought in. It's quite likely that of all of those sub-post offices were effected.
And so far the lawyers have been paid more than the amount of compensation paid out. Isn’t this always the case?
yes and they are due to make a whole lot more out of it
Why did it take a television drama shown over the last few weeks to to get everyone jumping up and down about a scandal that started over 20 years ago.
There have been plenty of documentaries about this scandal on the BBC over the years. Sadly those sort of programmes don't reach a mass audience. The great strength about the ITV drama is that it attracted a large number of viewers and told the story in a way which connected with people's emotions. But the politicians knew about this scandal all the time and chose to ignore it.
Astonishing to learn that the UK government has awarded an IT contract in 2024 to Fujitsu, despite allegations of supplying Horizon to the PO knowing that it was not fit for the purpose being in the public domain.
One detailed but I think important point is that the Post Office had a minimal in-house IT department. The IT function was outsourced - not sure to whom. But this meant that the Post Office top management were distanced from the on the ground operation of their IT systems. They failed to ask the right questions. It is a massive failure of the Post Office management. That Paula Vennells was given a CBE is just breathtaking. The Post Office must be stripped of their powers of their prosecution.
what is so offensive..is that these bullies thought they could get away with this..and they did!!!!!
They protect their own at the top. We argue amongst ourselves whilst they get away with it.
@andrewoliver8930 Sadly, you're right.
This has only come to the foreground because of the ITV drama. ITV should win major awards for this production.
Notice how they didn't mention the former CEO of the PO 2003-10. Adam Cozier just happens to have been the CEO of ITV in the recent past.
This scandal has been regularly reported in Private Eye and other places. If an award is needed it’s for the investigative journalists who made the dramatisation possible.
We have a severe attitude problem in this country whereby anything goes so long as you don't get caught, this makes our establishment and indeed much of our society dishonest and corrupt which in turn removes the respect that people once had for authority, law and order and honest dealing.
Integrity has truly been consigned to the trash can here in the UK.
Does anyone really think that any person high up in the post office or fujitsu will face justice or prison time !!! Will all know they will walk away with a slap on wrist ! One law for the rich and powerful and one law for the ordinary person on the street. It makes me sick .
£75,000 is an insult!
This warrants a Public Inquiry finding that recommends bringing criminal charges against the senior management who undertook these private prosecutions
I'm glad we've "already started investigating Fujitsu/Post Office" (David Davis). But not re-assured. It's more than 20 years too late!
Nobody comes out of this very well, not even the Labour Party during whose period in government the problems started and the cases started to go to court. But the major blame must be laid fairly and squarely at the door of the Post Office and Fujitsu. There must be fraud prosecutions as a consequence of this - maybe even perjury. Lies were clearly told. Cases like this are nothing new. My Gran took a government to court in 1953 after she slipped on an oily floor at work and broke her back. The department fought the case and her supervisor and foreman both told fibs in court. The judge found in my Gran’s favour and told the two witnesses they were very lucky not to be done for perjury.
Not just perjury. Instructing post office officials to tell individual subpostmasters that they were “the only ones” seems to point to some kind of conspiracy.
I think we need an independent whistle blowing organisation where people could report things like this, problems could be spotted and the independent body could raise concerns detached from government and business.
Sounds nice, but who funds it and who enforces mandates without government involved? Supposing individuals do band together and do something like this, why am I paying so much taxes to a government I’m having to personally audit? What punishment is there for government entities that fail a public audit?
I guess you can do the democratic thing and no vote people into these positions, but a lot of these positions aren’t elected in the first place, they’re appointed.
No one is to blame, lessons have to be learned. We all know that is the outcome.
Thank you ,that is so true !
I have been following the public enquiry for several months now and one thing that stood out was the poor quality of the PO Investigation and Audit staff. They seemed to mainly have been made up of former postmen and counter-staff given the minimum of training before being unleashed on to the hapless Post Masters.
One fundamental mistake they seemed to make was that they did not "follow the money". Did they check that the postmaster was suddenly taking lavish foreign holidays, buying expensive clothes, was there a new and expensive car or boat on the driveway? Of course they did not .They did not they just assumed that the money had been stolen without any concrete proof and prosecuted.
Another thing that came out in the enquiry is the mass amnesia of these people when questioned. They could not recall attending certain meetings, or sending certain emails. even when the enquiry has shown them copies of meeting logs and emails.
As a former sub postmaster who sold my business a year before horizon can you tell me if any Branch Managers or staff all employed by Post Office Counters ltd using the same horizon system were ever prosecuted? Or as I suspect orders were given that loses in the branch offices being shown were to be covered up .
The innocent people that was found guilty by the simple fact, that those in charge of the Post office perjured themselves by lying and altering evidence by the the Horizon company Fujitsu, who stated that there was bugs in their system and that could account for the errors at the small post offices however, the question that has to be asked is did the Post office auditors uncover the bugs in the Horizon system and cover it up.
My question is, who's going to prison? And I'm not holding my breath on tjat one.
Why can't Emily say "Private Eye"?
Yep. They’ve been covering this since 2011.
@@GorgeDawes2013, according to Ian Hislop.
Let’s also have an ITV drama covering the equally appalling and even longer-running Contaminated Blood Scandal.
That i totally agree with you.
Again News Agents - the quality of window into these events is excellent, thank you - One hopes these people get their due - and right quick.
There needs to be some prison sentences coming up for these incompetent post office directors
MPs start listening once theres mass attention from the media and significant sequences that will make them either look bad or raise their profile.
I am genuinely amazed that not one of these falsely accused took the law into their own hands. It shows a decency in these people that leaves me humbled
I have watched hours of the enquiry. Almost everyday the next person tells bigger lies than the previous person. I can only conclude that those who tell the biggest lies wins. So many basic error. I can only conclude that the Judges were prejudiced. The more people protested their innocence the more guilty they were. I now understand there are over 4,000 claims.
It took the ITV Drama department to do what journalists like Maitlis and Sopel should have done ten years ago!!!! And yet they now pontificate about the subject - they should be ashamed and called out for their spineless behaviour.
Exactly- they all read private eye so everyone who is anyone knew this was going on
Yes, it took a documentary to prove that people have the right to a pension to which they are entitled. Still, the government changed that right and for 6 years made ladies work or if made redundant or lost their jobs had no way to redress that change or any amount of money that was to pay for the future living cost and yet that money that should have been paid to these that worked for so long and have not received any justice.
I recall several times where Maitlis, when discussing something to do with Boris Johnson, referring to him only by his first name, as if they were chums.
Nah, many corners of the media have been banging on about this for years. The sad reality is the British public needs to see pictures of a crime with dramatic music before they care about it. If there wasn’t this visceral reaction to the TV drama by the public, there wouldn’t have been anything more than the smallest ripple of attention by the government.
To be fair to them they worked for the bbc so probably constrained.
Sopel was North American correspondent for many years.
Unfortunately the BBB like to focus on Prince Andrew and Diana.
The fake money not really missing...was reimbursed in some cases... so where did it go?
Notice how she mentions all the media that have taken this up except the Private Eye which has been running this story for years and years - they have obviously picked up some on Emily's dodgey journalism somewhere down the line
Yes!!!! She's awful.
Why did the figures always go UP and NEVER DOWN? There is more to this. There could well have been people outside of the Post Office community filling their pockets.
I wonder how the many members of the public who chastised spat on and condemned their local post masters and post mistresses ,quite out of hand ,are feeling now---do they suffer from their consciences I wonder, will they go any way towards restitution.
Way can’t the Judge just fix it ????? This is sick !
I left UK 15 years ago and found my corner of the world .... the failure of government was obvious then .... outraged and sad for the latest victims and every other mistake and hardship the government has instilled which I've witnessed over the years confirms I made the right move.
I am a South African living in South Africa. And I am incensed at the injustice!!!
I am following this story, for I want to see EVERYONE responsible , from those who were in top management at the post office at that time, to members of government who looked the other way, to be held fully accountable!!!!
This injustice is beyond outrageous!!!!!
Heads need to roll. And not just out of the door, but throw those who were responsible in ruining the lives of so many innocent people and their families, with NO exception, in prison!!!
Zuma and ANC learned from the best!!!
what about the other postmasters/mistresses that were bankrolling the short falls in their branches that weren't sufficient enough to lead to prosecution?
Has anyone asked if the Horizon problems were a useful way of pushing forward the Post Office branch closure program? Maybe just a coincidence the two were going forward at the same time?
Spot on and part of the agenda.
Way above the post office. It was privatised for a reason.
The thing is that UN ordered no more paper from 2025. Creating excuses to abolish the post office will assist in that. This means all to be on computers, and we all know how important things are altered or deleted from the web and more.
The actual criminals in control and their obedient servants should have proceeds of crime upon all they and their families own until honest auditors work out what was right and just for them to be paid. Major shareholders also. Were businesses such as Blackrock and Vanguard invested?
It was timed to become higher profile now. The documentary could be have been made and screened years ago. See?
They wouldn't be able to declare it bankrupt and abolish it if it were still owned by the public. See?
I'm convinced this is the sole reason that this all occurred!!!!
Thank you for highlighting this point. I was wondering why it was in the post office' interest not to want these post offices up and running.
What we're mainly seeing are effects and impacts. To understand how it got to effects and impacts, they need to start back with the procurement, which is usually where the problem's begin.
Same old chestnut most people are disgusted by such goings on in a publicly owned corporation! One thing I can't get my head round is when Jo at her post office in Hampshire queried a shortfall of £2000 and was told to do something to rectify it ,it in actual fact doubled to £4000 ,didn't someone notice this? Mind you I have had to deal with councils and most of the public services in my working life and some of the things I have come across you would not believe although fortunately not as bad as this. Now these departments are the ones with no money, frankly I am not surprised!
For me, from the city of Liverpool, this quarter century fight for justice for sub-postmasters so eerily echoes the fight for Hillsborough victims amid far reaching government cover-ups.
Emily, can you please interview Paula Vennells that would be a fantastic starting point for everybody to watch
I fail to understand why the post office simply did not go back to Fujitsu and say.. fix it or we sue you.....
Everyone is accountable….. if people commit crimes to convict innocent people they all must be held accountable.
I'd like to see that tv drama re the UK Post Office here in the US.
Maybe it can be streamed.
It's on ITV. Not sure if you have access to it?
The post office pocketing the funds the illegally expressed from the post masters and mistresses should come under the general heading of profiting from the profits of crime!
No found it strange that on average 2/3 post master's where being taken to court, then all of a sudden 30/40 a week are to court
All cases should be expunged.
So it takes a TV Drama to produce this kind of response…..disgusting, the Post Office, The Government, and the media should be ashamed ofthemselves
They should be but I bet they aren’t.
none of them know what it means
But we should have been finding the lies from the beginning. Why did the lawyers for the defence not understand that the software companies have to have access. I think the Bar Council should be e looking at its membership as should the accountancy bodies to whom the auditors belong.
I agree , behind the head line they know more the one was been charged! But they just went with the fellow. There should be a lot a people charged. But never will happen.
Too right, each and every legal firm, barrister or legal representative.
We had a chamber of mp's that have sat on there hands for years and a tv program airs and they begin to stand one by one,there usless.
shocking a tv serie needed done to get the ball moving, this lot cover for themselves. They all speak so nice them people, they always say, I BEEN CLEAR they say, i can't stand this lot anymore, same with politicians.
The Post Office Board of Directors need to be arrested, prosecuted and.....
It seems pretty unbelievable that, with so many sub post people involved, that they weren’t talking to one another about their problems and comparing notes. Perhaps they were but no one was listening. The software Company, Fujitsu have,for a long time, been awarded Government Contracts with huge amounts of taxpayers money dished out. Surely this Company should now give some of that money back by being held responsible for compensation payments.
Not only that but their "Union" the Federation disowned them refused to back Postmasters up and told the world "the system is robust" With friends like that you do not need enemies.Later it emerged the PO would fund the Federation in return from their support.
Binge watched TV show last night and debate in house commons. Utterly appaled that such an injustice and mass conspiracy has occurred but not in the least surprised that people in power have crushed ordinary working people. They should all £1mil tomorrow in their bank accounts. The emotional and financial damage for some of over 20 years is incalculable but 1 mil might be a start. No faith whatever that anyone will ever be bought to account either
I feel it’s reimbursement PLUS compensation
This was a low quality contribution from the News Agents. They moaned that no one took the PO scandal seriously until the TV drama - why didn't THEY cover this in depth before? A bit of introspection would have been appropriate.
And they didn't talk at all about the systemic issues that led to it, beyond David Davis saying its hard to allocate blame in big bureaucracies. Why didnt they go into this? We've had so many scandals from the great banking crash to VW dieselgate, why didnt they discuss how to fix corporate accountability?
Not even a decent discussion about the PO's right to prosecute and how this should be addressed. What other organisations have this right? What other quangos have powers that should really be reserved for government?
Come on, guys
It should be noted that Sunak as Chancellor has approved payments over 4 billion to Fujitsu notwithstanding by that time the concerns regarding Horizon were apparent…….
Absolutely the post office and the government have to take responsibility. That there were bugs in the accounting software should have been examined, addressed to Fujitsu and monitored from the outset. It seems to me the only thing the accused post masters had in common was access to the software. How was this not a sign of something wrong with the accounting system, and why was there not sufficient digital oversight in govt? Fujitsu, who acquired the UK company which developed the software, will probably fight compensation though they should answer for their involvement. However digital errors, hacking, data breaches etc. are part of everyday life now. There are over 1000 cyberattacks a week in Japan. When Fujitsu was hacked in 2023, they were rebuked by the Govt and warned to upgrade security, and there was huge criticism that the hack detection took a whole 8 months. I agree with the idea that this is mostly bureaucratic self-preservation. What a nightmare Britain has become. My sympathies are with these families, what a travesty.
The Loan Charge Scandal is next. HMRC/Treasury acting as ‘judge , jury & executioner, & people committing suicide, & many others selling their homes & declaring bankruptcy, due to an issue of mis-selling, & not having their day in court. THIS needs its own ITV drama.!
I'm surprised you didn't mention Private Eye, who not only are generous in pointing out that Computer Weekly broke this story but have been tenacious bulldogs on this since 2011.
I remember being shocked when it first came out. We never heard anymore about the outcome.
Excellent podcast.
Class action Complaints to the Solicitors Regulation Authority about ALL solicitors working at and for the Post Office during the period of these prosecutions
Weren’t they obliged to pay because in their contract they were responsible for shortfalls? I feel they maybe weren’t actually accused of theft. Post Office wouldn’t have been able to prove it. Also - if the computer program failed why weren’t there any « too much money » situations. They say someone else had access to the system. Who?
I’ve listened to this broadcast for the first time and what is clear is that it is laden with smugness and sarcasm.
Who is to blame?
Blair, the man who presided over the implementation of Horizon
Fujitsu, who developed Horizon
The establishment who covered up and rewarded each other with medals and honours
The media who knew about this for 20 yrs yet chose to mention it only after a TV drama
Cameron, the PM who initiated the sale of the Post Office
Cable, the Trade and industry minister
Davey who directly ignored the pleas of Post Masters as the Post Office minister
The judiciary who happily dished our punitive sentences as a warning to others. Sentences that weren’t even dished out to people who carried out physical harm
The list is long, is all parties and the 2 people discussing who is to blame patently knew all about this for years yet never saw fit to highlight it in their position as very senior media figures
Well said
Justice must be seen to be done for the public to have any confidence in justice system. Police do your thing. No waiting for the enquiry to finish.
The senior Management team at the Post Office should all be prosecuted for Perverting the Course of Justice. They all knew Horizon was faulty but preferred innocent people were convicted than admit the Post Office (and Fujitsu) could make mistakes.
No credit to Private Eye?
Everyone speaking about this needs to be sure to refer to 'notional' 'perceived' 'or even 'imaginary' losses/shortfalls. It's obvious that some people at the post office still imagine that money went missing. They don't seem to grasp the concept that the computer system 'invented' the shortages and no actual money disappeared FROM THE POST OFFICE. The only money that DID 'vanish' is that which belonged to the accused postmasters. There was no hole which needed to be filled by the money that was 'repaid'. That money, plus interest, should be immediately returned to all the people from whom it was stolen. This should be immediate. Compensation is another matter which needs to be dealt with quickly but at least give them back THEIR OWN MONEY which was wrongly claimed from them.
Justice isn't just about compensation and pardons, it's about sending those who deliberately ruined lives to cover up their incompetence to prison.
No one from any corporate sector is sent to prison, all these people walk free while the little people pick up the pieces!
Why do governments continue refusing to pass a law where the top of the company is held automatically accountable and goes to prison for the wrong doing of his or her company.
We need to force an end to incompetent managers who deliberately employ incompetent people as it makes it easier to pass the buck.
The buck should start at the top not at the bottom because the bottom is an easier target.
Don’t believe in British justice ? ADD ONE !
It should be quite easy to track down the tech support workers who, over the phone, lied to the postmasters about the computer glitches. They would have been fully aware of the problems at the time. I'm surprised that none of them have stepped forward as whistleblowers.
Very disappointed that you could not credit Private Eye for its coverage since 2011 - professional jealousy perhaps. Contrast that with Ian Hislop on HIGNFY when on being credited with his pursuit of this story, immediately credited Computer Weekly and BBC South. Please do better.
Hopefully wake a few up to all the other big companies doing similar. Water and Energy firm's? Banks, Unitary councils and the BBC to name a few.