Post Office Scandal: The Full Story (So Far)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.พ. 2024
- The greatest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. In January of 2024, ITV launched the drama 'Mr Bates VS the Post Office' overnight the public responded to the heartbreaking stories of postmasters across the country. A battle nearly 700 sub-postmasters have been fighting since the late 1990s, was suddenly in the spotlight.
GMB spoke with politicians, journalists, sub-postmasters and Alan Bates himself, learning about the injustices suffered and the campaign heroes.
The Horizon Post Office Scandal is far from over, here is the full story so far...
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#GMB #postoffice #postmasters #horizon #fujitsu #mrbatesvsthepostoffice - บันเทิง
I admire Alan Bates. A modern day hero and an example that persistence will pay off
He was very smart in the first place not signing off on the wrong balance. Good on him. He believed in himself. That's what every single one of them should have done. But it's hard in the face of a machine. Both the computer and the lying b's on the phoneline.
Did it pay off?
They were told they were the only one, so that put doubt in their mids. Shame on them.
The general persistent Quiet Power of The Public. It cannot be stopped once it starts to roll. Never fear your government. Your government must fear you.
Yes.
Vennels - dishonest and self aggrandised.
Alan Bates - thoroughly decent person.
Tony Blair stood up and said that the system was flawless. He should be held accountable. .
Yes Blair shouldn't be allowed to walk away from this unscathed. If not for him and Fujitsu this would never have happened.
he got away with starting a war in the middle east based on false information invented to justify a war .. .. so I'm guessing this is water off a ducks back. A slight breeze on a fair day. These people never face justice.
And there are no flawless systems. They simply don't exist. All systems have vulnerabilities. And that's why you need a plan to manage threats and losses and design controls that mitigate vulnerabilities. And you need to do this continuously. It's a never ending activity.
WE WANT TO SEE JUSTICE BEING DONE ..... all we get is blah blah blah and laywers getting rich ... blah blah blah ...
@senchaholic Just to add that there should also be inbuilt systems to detect "unexpected" traffic. The main system should have rung alarms; the individual sub-postoffices should have rung alarms when they detected rogue incoming messages. To me it seems the backdoor was a _designed_ and intended feature.
Nobody will convince me the government didnt know this was happening
They certainly knew at the beginning. Horizon was initially commissioned from Fujitsu to manage the benefits systems, but all the bugs meant that it turned out to be too unreliable for this. This was a big thing in government at the time, they all knew. But rather than abandon it and waste the investment, and fall behind with his 'modernising' pledges, Tony Blair asked Fujitsu to revamp the system for the Post Office. He then pretty much forced it onto the Post Office, who were trying to resist this. As time went on the PO and Fujitsu management hoped that their IT departments were managing the glitches, and got on with telling the public that the system was working ...
I agree. Government ministers definitely knew.
@@gaz8891 it was a failed nhs programe they rejected it .
Well of course they did!. They OWN the PO!😡
If the dwp have had bugs too why oh why did they not think " hang on a minute" is this happening with the po
Why aren't the police arresting those guilty of lying to parliament?
The Police have interviewed I think only Two People under caution for ''Perverting the Course of Justice''
UK police doesn't investigate crimes that happened in the past. Didn't you know?
@@kurtgodel5236 the met police does not reconise tory crimes .two places best to be if you want a good criminal career.with a real good pay off and a pension.
police will never arrest a tory backed horse.
Also repeatedly lying to the courts.
This whole scandal is so nauseating. Also, this idea that there are "Lessons Learned" here is idiotic. We all know already that it is unethical to lie and steal. It is inconceivable that the Post Office lawyers, prosecutors, and senior executives didn't know exactly what was going on.
There were definitely individuals that new about the issues with Horizon. Whether the inquiry will get to the bottom of it remains to be seen. As many of the participants in the inquiry seem to be afflicted with amnesia, it seems unlikely sadly.
Andy they had their eyes shut so they didnt hear a thing...lol...
Yes the woman asking the question - "What I want to know is where that money went? That is the crux of this. The question left unanswered. Yes Fujitsu!!!
andyiswonderful There are always lessons learned , the lesson is , let's not get caught next time, the amnesia that appears to have affected all those who were directly responsible is very convenient , more than likely as a recommendation from the lawyers , the whole bunch involved in this affair should , if there was any real justice in this land , be behind bars , somehow I can't see that ever happening.
I personally, cannot bare to hear " lessons should be learned" I'm sick to my high teeth of this statement.
It's said whenever a company, public sector etc make immense mistakes deluberate or not, yet they never learn it happens again and again.
I thought you were innocent in the UK until proven guilty? These people were treated as guilty yet where was the actual financial evidence of guilt?
That’s only for women
@@mazz2001 He says as women post masters were also affected by this scandal.
That was Alan Bates argument!
There was no actual evidence.
Only the word of workers and directors of the Post Office justifying their claims.
Basically they were believed by the legal system, because they were the 'Post Office's.
None
Come on, Minister, just PAY UP. Stop giving excuses and stop blabbering..
Here in New Zealand we have just seen the tv drama. Completely gob smacked. How terrible for all those people that were affected. I see there is still evidence coming out of the bosses lying. I hope that they are all charged with criminal offences, lose their pensions and go to jail. It must have been beyond frustrating to have no one listening for 20 years 😑
Watched this documentary series in Australia yesterday. Absolutely shocking that this is still not settled to this day!
Still not settled and still going on to this day, even after EVERYONE knows that this particular Post Office computer system is corrupt, can't be trusted and can be accessed by backdoors run by non-Post Office IT staff. Even today it's standard practice for Post Office to pursue the Postmasters for any money stolen during a robbery at their Post Office. The 'problem' for all involved in the prosecution of innocent people in this case is that it involves so many UK politicians from all parties, so many ex-Prime Ministers, the judiciary, the Director of Public Prosecutions, so many household names here in the UK, exposes the UK government to the risk of HUGE civil cases and holds the UK Honours system up to ridicule for 'rewarding' corrupt and criminal individuals who knowingly persecuted and prosecuted people they knew to be innocent. The crimes committed here can only have one outcome - serious jail time for those involved - and with so many being of that particular ilk, that is why the current and next UK governments will do their usual "sit back and bluster and hope that it all goes away with the wind". I believe the phrase is "we investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong".
Among the huge list of questions that need answers are at least two big questions: 1) Where is all of the money that was deemed to have been stolen and then paid back by some Postmasters and did any Post Office management staff benefit from it? 2) While dozens of Fujitsu IT staff were involved in backdoor entry to the alleged 'secure' accounts of particular Post Offices, were they involved in the 'thefts' and did they cover their trails within the software?
I found myself using some colourful language. It was shocking.
tory are seeing how they can middle out of this before being kicked out of office.
The U.K. legal system is an absolute joke. These poor people have this hurrendous ordeal to handle in the first place, then have to navigate the ridiculous and obscenely expensive legal system, and they’re STILL waiting for redress.
There will be no prosecutions coming from the establishment the establishment looks after its own vile spawn
At least the law in England and Wales allows for private prosecutions. I think that's the only way to see the responsible in the dock
@@smallGatsby I fear you are quite correct , the government and civil service aided by the Lawyers will connive to deny justice in this case , I do not believe that one of the persons responsible for this disgraceful episode will face prosecution , if by the remotest chance someone will it will be in the form of sacrificial lambs ,ie people who , in the eyes of our so called authorities do not count.
I think there will be - the victims AND the public will DEMAND it
It appears to have done, most recently. The Post Office boss was exonerated!! Can't be justice!
The full story is “lots of innocent people had their lives ruined by a huge business and there were no consequences” that’s the full story. And they’re still doing it. The enquiry means absolutely sod all.
Gives a whole new meaning to going postal.
The system is undeniably broken with corruption! These investigations are a joke and an insult, just a way to shut people up again! There is NO justice! We need a reform of the government. Everyone should be audited on a regular basis and the audits should be in public record. If the figures don't add up then people should be held accountable, after all isn't this what they themselves said to these poor people. The government truly believes we are all idiots! Reform and a good clean out like in any other business.
hawkhoskins4250 ,It means absolutely nothing at all , when the government or civil service are being held to account they have an enquiry which always takes at least two years if not more and practically in almost every case produces nothing . If they can pull it off they will do the same with this scenario,
We in Aotearoa New Zealand witnessed the screening of 'Mr Bates VS the Post Office' last night (Easter Sunday) on TV1. Appalling, absolutely appalling.
where is Aotearoa? Last time i checked i live in NZ.
@@jal98uc Land of the Long White Cloud = Aotearoa - which is New Zealand, even in the UK we know where and what Aotearoa is - and we love the Maori. Greetings to all Kiwis in your beautiful land.
Has Paula Vennells been investigated yet? Has Paula Vennells been charged with anything yet?
The compicit parties at FUJITSU, have any been investigated? Charged yet?
Her CBE was revoked.
All the management should be sacked and prosecuted,those involved with this should also be Jailed.
I couldn’t agree more.
780 cases of conspiring to pervert the course of justice. vennels should be arrested now and remanded.
Thank you Alan for being the right man and standing up for others you are a good man
If the boot was on the other foot The government would hound everyone of those poor. People for every penny 😡
“Lessons need to be learned at a higher level” what better way of saying nobody will be prosecuted.
Exactly, people are sick of hearing this, especially as it keeps happening. Anything will be said just to pacify the public, hood wink us in to believing some one is doing something about it. WHEN THEY ARE NOT.
As regards the Minister for the Post Office, Ed Davy, I read he was paid a great deal of money by the law firm representing the Post Office to "look the other way" - and he did. He should have his "Sir" removed. There's nothing honourable about the man.
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I’m so glad Mr. Bates turned down a stingy government settlement. These people need total compensation with interest over time and zero taxation. This includes their surviving family and spouses. Shame on the Post Office and shame on a government that continues to erode public services! We need to revoke private contracts due to neglect of public services and take them all back under new and professional leadership .
Bravo, well said, that's exactly what we need to do! These "public/private partnerships" have been a windfall for the already rich shareholders and when something goes wrong, it's the taxpayers that are expected to bail them out, like our 10 years of Austerity, we suffered whilst they gave themselves a 7-figure raise. No more. We're done. The only way we can stop them now is everybody stop paying ALL taxes. They won't get very far without our hard-earned money.
the tory boys doing the tax for the post office claimed tax back on compo claimed for the post office knowing the money was form criminality they had created .
Every politician involved over the years should have their wages garnished and those retired should have their pensions garnished and that money go to the Postmasters and Postmistresses. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of paying for government's mistakes all my life whilst they get hefty raise after hefty raise and are never penalised for anything.
Think of defamation , loss of earnings and reputation and the victims aren’t getting any younger. If this was in the USA They would have sued the post office, Fujitsu and the individuals who allowed the mistake to develop out of hand
Payouts AND Prosecution!! Put those vile people behind bars!
For goodness sake, pay the Sub Postmasters THEIR money, then go for the Post Office and Government !!!!!
Any institution has its own protectiveness (many who work in institutions know this) and will not take responsibility, with union backup, against the employees. Alan Bates is my hero!
The clear winners out of this fiasco are the solicitors. Why don’t they ditch Fujitsu ! Robust is exactly what it is NOT !
This story is unfathomable. And still ongoing !! Jail sentences need to be forthwith immediately and victims fully refunded their money with compensation and interest.
She is asking all the right questions.... all very simple ones that require simple answers.
Well done Suzanna and Richard keeping on the facts superb
The post office invstigators and Fujitsu are still using clapped out soft ware to persecute the current batch of post office worker. The gross and corrupt incompetence of management is stunning.
A million pounds each as a payout to every subpostmaster should be a starting point
Exactly. All 700 that were convicted, especially the 236 that went to prison. So many have lost pretty much everything, including 10+ years of their lives.
It proves UK is lagging behind in IT not to mention the arrogance of those lunatic post office investigators. Not only to compensate the victims but also send those investigators and judges behind bar. if the irregularity only happened to one or two post office, we might suspect something was fishing. when the irregularity has become a norm, this must be a system error. now I found common sense is indeed uncommon
Anyone who has been involved with IT over the last 40+ years will tell you that de bugging of systems can take years. PO management may have been ignorant initially but they were ultimately guilty of wickedness.
How right you are.
My immediate thought when this debacle came to my attention was that the new program had not been properly tested. Lots of honest employees do not become dishonest overnight. The PO and FUJITSU are the real criminals.
Alan Bates is a hero, what I cant believe is that this has taken 20 years to get to where it is, one should never confuse stupidity with duplicity. Here we have both. Paula Vennels had both feet in the trough, took the 4m salary and must have known what was going on, 700 Postmasters supposedly rorting the system... Unbelievable!!! Laura Trott just sort it out and stop the political waffle.
Now we need to know about the unions role in all of this please I for one am convinced that theres a lot more to this disturbing affair
There was and still is a union for subpostmasters which is funded by the post office which did nothing over the scandal apart from advise people facing conviction to plead guilty for suspended sentences rather than prison. There should be an independent union established now for postmasters
set up wost than the phone in system in advance to take your money think your safe then in 11 hour simply forget you exist and look the other way.
@@jemorroidskp💯👍
How about give every penny that was taken of them even the value of the homes that was taken of them
Get these self serving politicians to work overtime and the lawmen who are counting gold and personal gain.
Utterly despicable scandal that ruined so many lives. Regardless whether the people come forward or not they need to be paid to redress the wrong.
I am without justice since 1979 to be a whistle blower as bank of india, uk employee known to all uk and indian politicians and regulators.
Criminal convictions must happen
As an America can, I wish I could vote to jail those post office bosses.
The whole system was toxic, and evil.
This includes the internal investigators, prosecutors, the legal teams, and the senior directors.
As we've come to see, it's deeply shocking that a government owned, run, and overseen business has been so aggressive, harmful, and corrupt, to the very core, at all levels.
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It's not compensation they want it's JUSTICE....simples
I don't know why l am watching this video as my blood pressure is adversely affected every time I see or hear any documentary about this appalling and evil situation. Alan Bates and Jo Hamilton are 2 amazing heroes. Please God there is a satisfactory outcome BUT l hae ma doots !!!!
a great man for what he has done for postmasters now the gov need to pay back what they took from them over the years in full now
Not only the sub postmasters. Everyone who values truth, honesty & justice.
Alan Bates is a modern Robin Hood
At an absolute minimum every bonus paid for every prosecution should be paid back, it really will be a travesty if even that doesn't happen
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It was motives by Vennells was from the C of E, this is exactly how the Anglican Church reacts to problems
her god is Belphegor with out a doubt .
@@andydudley1775Belphegor! My goodness! 😂😂
This video was done in January. We are now in mid-February and what's happened? More prosecutions for postmasters all over the UK, that's what's happening.
Should have stopped by now!
Yet Michelle Mone gets £220,000,000 within 2 weeks through PPE Fast Track.
shhh they don't want you to talk about that Makes the government look corrupt
Yeah! 🙁🙁
Here in Australia absolutely gobsmacked
Hopefully here they do one on robodebt different but similarly ruthless
Thank you, Mr. Bates, you are my hero. I have had terrible problems with Telus and Bell. I am terrified about the push to Artificial Intelligence. Too many people prefer machines to people. We all know that people make mistakes, and we also know there are people who are sociopaths. People are super quick to blame people and are slow to question flawed automated systems and machines and this is scary.
Its still happening
Please clarify 🤔
Yes. WHY didn't they just pay off the sub-postmasters and mistresses YEARS ago??
And not waste millions in public money trying to fob them off!! 😡😡
It wasnt ignorance nor arrogance, but profit leading to big bonuses for the people at the top.
Which must stop!
There MUST be accountability at the highest levels. An unequivocal message MUST be sent to heads of all such government organisations: behave ethically, responsibly and legally - or answer to the justice system yourself.
Horizon system must be changed⁉️ Is the PO so interwoven with it that it can't be changed⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️
This government minister could watch the inquiry, and have all his questions answered🥶. Most of the POL investigators couldn't remember anything, but the sub post masters had to have evidence. Watching from Australia, this has shocked me🇦🇺
Still prosecuting now Feb 2024
Suddenly, I understand, what Blah! Blah! Blah! means.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE ARE. DISGUSTING 😡
I still don't get why when the sub posties lost there cases they had to pay both lots of lawyers, and when they won as a group they still had to pay both lots of layers, or am i missing something?
Yep. That’s correct! It’s an absolutely ridiculous feature of our justice system. If you take someone to court, and they offer you £200,000 to settle out of court, if you turn this offer down and win £150,000 in court they can say that you have wasted their time and money as you won less through the court system. This allows them to get you to pay for their lawyers fees, as this is a charge they wouldn’t have had to pay if you had taken the original £200,000!!! I think this also happens in other countries too! Insane, right? 🤦🏽♀️
£40m in legal fees!? WHAT!? How on earth can anyone justify that!?
Fujitsu Japan executives must be called to the inquiry.. they cannot wash their hands of this disgraceful behaviour by their own 🇬🇧 subsidiary . They must commit to full and speedy compensation for all the sub postmaster-victims
You're asking for a diplomatic nightmare that will take years to do and impact many other businesses that will likely cut ties with the UK over that.
It’s likely Fujitsu uk are partially at fault, I can’t imagine this was instructed from Japan. But hopefully that will be clarified.
@@TheOmegaRiddlerthat is a risk Fujitsu assumes by engaging in international trade. They can't accept international funds without international accountability.
@TheOmegaRiddler Yes: but UK plc can't allow itself to be ripped off like this!!!
Only 636 thumps up......A SHAME!!
A brilliant go thru on this scandal.
Vennell or venal, that is the question.
underrated comment.
BRAVO ALAN! ❤
Don't wait for an inquiry to prosecute, you'll wait forever. Mount a private prosecution now, before those responsible disappear.
It's still happening to these post office people.. that's more scandal on top
Post Office thieves who went for the easy way out - they must be made to admit that they were the worst liars ever and they never questioned the problem which they knew about - they should all be jailed.
The lady trying to justify their lack of integrity in the compensation payments is disgusting! There is nothing she can say to justify their inadequate job!
The only result the country will accept is every single person involved from ministers through judges through solicitors are brought to justice and gaoled. How can it be conceivable these people will escape their professional negligence in this miscarriage of justice? How can any of their criminal profits not be seized immediately.
This is classic arrogance in every company compounded by software staff who are also natural liars unable to be humble even with other software staff
131 million pounds paid out so far to 2700 claimants is an average of only 48,518 pounds each. The first number sounds large but the amount per person is embarrassingly low.
Get rid of horizon!!! They shouldn't keep using it. And Fujitsu should not still be profitting from this. Not being able to differentiate fraud from computer error is outrageous. The poor post office workers.
'....do right by 'these people''???? THESE PEOPLE???! THESE PEOPLE ARE VICTIMS! THEY NEED AND DESERVE THEIR MONEY NOW - NOW - NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop SHOUTING, and don't waste exclamation marks!
Mel Stride, the Work and Pensions Secretary, repeatedly says there is an inquiry looking into all these questions-and there has to be-but what Susanna Reid is saying, exasperatedly via her questioning, is that the postal affairs minister in 2010 _should_ have looked into this scandal at the time. Stride, doggedly sticking to his line about the inquiry, is not admitting that, yes, that should have been the case. It makes him look, at best, oblivious.
It seems like post office officials could be charged with malicious prosecution and the subpostmasters wrongly accused, prosected, and, in many cases, convicted, could be compensated over and above what their actual losses were.
Thanks for this video itv GMB ❤️
Thank you for your hard work.
I don't understand why there is a delay in payouts, because the way I see it, the longer they wait, the more they are owed. I see it as you should look at what Post Office stole along with what these people had to pay in borrowing money and other means like mortgages, take into account the inflation and add interest and pay whatever that comes to. The longer they wait, the more they owe. And it's likely taxpayer's money that will be used. As for what he said about compensation. They are owed compensation for the loss of reputation and the psychological damage caused by Post Office's actions on top of the redress they deserve
Because they want to pay out as least as possible.. instead of just doing the right thing and paying out what the individual's are owed.
If its money for Ukraine Post Office - billions $$$ overnight!!!
If you under pay your taxes in Canada your interest is charged starting at APRIL 31st when it should have been paid. Therefore the Post Office had the Sub Postmasters funds since possibly 1999 the they have to calculate interest the over payment of funds due to the Fujitsu error which would be approximately 25 years compounded monthly at the very least. PLUS Compensation for hardship in loosing their livelihood, ending up in Jail or committing suicide.
@@fredsmith1970💯💯
@@rosemarymonty5399💯
Would they not have hand written accounting log book and printed receipts?
Who is actually paying for it ? Is it by any chance, the tax paying public , as usual ?
Has to be!!
Wonderful documentary. Thank you
“Lessons need to be learned”!?!?!? Yeah right! 😡
Why did the tory give Vennells work in the NHS when it is obvious she is to blame forcovering up this whole mess in the post office. She lied for years yet this government keeps rewarding her WHY? There a lot of people in top positions who are denying knowing anything, which is just another attack on the postal workers. The police need to get these people interviewed and taken to court because they are the real culprits in this post office scandal. The executives have been given millions of pounds in wages and bonuses which they were not worthy of, this money needs to be given back immediately. MORALS NOT MONEY STOP THE TORIES STOP THE LIES STOP MONES BOAT
The system performs millions of transactions every day... and only a few cockups here and there, but who is counting?
All I'm hearing is a bunch of SCHEMING, alright....🤬
Wait till they have the covid inquiry 😊😊
I'm sure the post office lawyers have been paid in a timely manner!
gov departments taking cutbacks from the post office and covering it up .
Definitely.
They will deliver the compensation as quickly as they have delivered the truth.
The money they have spent on legal fees would have paid them all out. "our money"
Difficult to believe this is happening in MODErn uk...disgusting.
Im disgusted at the disgraceful way these innocent postmasters were treated. The lies told and the years it has taken to put right the wrongdoings of the post office. Give all these innocent people the financial rewards they deserve!!
if a post office corp can do that so blatantly easily and for so long and under the government's watch... the sentencing does not set an example
The government is not the only shareholder.
Boycott all Companies these Liars work for now!!!
Wasn't it a Tory MP who spearheaded the campaign to stop this injustice, Susannah?
If this had been any other company there would of been arrests of senior management of the post office and compensation for the injustice of all subpostmasters who's lives will never be the same again.b
Absolutely hart reaching for all the infected and i say infected by this Worst miss manage Justice in British History. They full new. And covered it all up. I thank god live in New Zealand and this is a big topic. The sufferings have to stop. Now
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