PARLAY REVIVAL Discovers My LAGOON 450 is BENT & My BULKHEADS Are CRACKED :(
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- I went to a Lagoon dealer for help fixing my boat and they laughed at me, so we sailed 1100 nm across the Caribbean sea to search for Parlay Revival. Colin and Jamie do everything they can to help and sadly they discover that my Lagoon 450 is BENT and the Bulkheads are CRACKED. I’m smiling for the camera, but dying on the inside. Glad we sailed a week from St. Maarten to Panama to find these guys!
Lagoon! Please help me fix my bulkheads, they're not supposed to be like this! HELP out your most loyal customer!
#Lagoon450 #Bulkheads #Catamaran #ParlayRevival #Lagoon
I'm currently yacht shopping. After seeing Parlay and now Epic, Lagoon has been removed from my list completely. Thank you for sharing!
Aw...don't let a very real possiblity of catostrophic failure and sinking in the ocean deter you! In all seriousness, the boat is amazing and IMO the best in its price range. If Lagoon would just own up and repair this small design flaw, they'd strengthen their reputation and get a ton of lifetime customers. Unfortunately short term profits seem like their priority. The boat will be better than new once I’m done repairing and reinforcing!
@@david_shih I believe you and the Parlay fellas will out do the Lagoon factory! I am definitely interested in seeing the finished results and look forward to watching the process unfold.
I would get the bulkheads back in shape and triple the thickness like Collin said but then sandwich the bulkheads between two sheets of aluminum bolted and glued together through the bulkheads reinforcing the main support bulkheads by 10 times lagoons original plans
Hi David, could not agree more with your remarks about maybe a bit more ply and glass to strengthen it. I feel your pain this is not a great situation. The boat will be stronger in the end!! Good luck loving your videos.
The quality of the construction is appalling! I can only imagine how little checks are made in the Lagoon factory to allow this to leave on new boats. Moral of the story, don't buy Lagoon
After seeing these bent Lagoons I can absolutely mark this brand off my list of cats that I would buy
Wow, this guy traveled to the Caribbean to see Colin from the best boating/sailing across the world videos, Sailing Parlay Revival, the whole crew on Parley, his friends. People they've met along the way are just so cool, I'd love to be with them 6 months a year! Colin rocks, hes so knowledgeable, My husband watches him at 53 yrs old;)
Love of all the Parlay family, AMD please PLEASE KEEP MAKING VIDEOS;)
Man, I’m so sorry to see the challenges you’re having to deal with. Colin mentioned in his video this week about the guy who has 10 or so 450’s all with bent or broken bulkheads and is planning to file a lawsuit. Such a bummer! I hope Lagoon steps up and does the right thing here. Best of luck with your repairs.
I hope they do step up!
I’m retired & my wife is soon doing the same, both of us not yet 50 yrs old. We’ve planned and saved, to buy a sailboat and travel the world for a few years. And then maybe RV the different continents.
After years of hard work & saving, there’s no freaking way Lagoon would ever get our business. This is absolutely ridiculous. No doubt a class action lawsuit is coming. And unfortunately it’s most likely the only way to hold Lagoon accountable for their shoddy workmanship & construction quality on these boat models.
Moving on.
A Sailboat and vanlife combo is what we’d love as well! The ultimate setup would be to sail to different continents and ship the van to each one. If Lagoon steps up and helps us owners out all of this could be quickly resolved!
Also in my 40s and retired. Done the RV (well, Mercedes bus conversion), which is now in my barn at a house I found on my travels. I already settled on a Neel 43 Trimaran.
Good that you guys call these manufacturers out!! good luck with the repairs
"We're gonna stay a solid 3-4 weeks" XD Best if luck. If you are done within 4 month im impressed AF!
I guess Linton bay will become soon the "Lagoon Bulkhead Repair Center Service" lolllllll
Yeah nah, Colin will become roving world wide fixer upper of Beneteau's crappy workmanship, because let's face it, it's not just Lagoons.
@@sheerluckholmes5468 I think Colin will now have a very profitable business. New series in the making. "Colin's 450 Lagoon Busted Boats Repair Odyssey".
Colin should open a repair shop there specializing in Lagoon's or Lagoon should hire him as a repair adviser, that would make him full time hired and he can sail the world and help ppl with their broken homes.
@@Movieman1965 Something tells me Colin wants to go sailing, not grind fiberglass
Jessica, will you be there? An imaginary friend of mine thinks you're hot.
My advice. Haul out next to parley and do the work together. Help each other and be twice as fast back on the water.
Colin has a team and this is one guy with not so great hammer skills. Don't think it is going to happen. Plus this guy will be done in 3-4 weeks...............
@@lowryshank94 If you think my hammering skills are bad wait till you see me try to tear apart the cabins! I’m literally just an ex-corporate guy who left the grind and for no reason decided I could learn to fix a boat. Figuring everything out on the fly here...
Keep it up! You’ve got the best thing in the world next to you, experience.
@@david_shih All the more reason to haul out right next to Colin... You know his stuff's going to be right when he's done, and if you copy him, so will yours.
@@david_shih
Asking an advice here and there to Colin's team costs nothing. I'm sure they'll be glad to help out with info and tricks.
Plus you know the saying about how to eat an elephant... Right ? Keep the fate, man ! 👍
PS BTW, navigating in the corporate rat world 😳 demands brains and skills, right ? So... 🤞
Worrying. I was an owner of a 470, one of the last built and owned it when it was a year old. Up until then it had an easy life and all seemed good, then one rough trip down to the Canaries and cracks appeared in large areas of the gelcoat and the noise from the creaking in heave seas was deafening (and scary). We later met another 470 owner who had persistent leaks around the windows in the salon (from the flexing) and they could not get them to hold water.
We had all the cracks fixed, and next sail they all came back. We decided this was not right and lost confidence in the boat and sold it. Now really glad we did, put us off Cat's so we are now mono owners.
Was the buyer made aware of these large areas of the gelcoat and the noise from the creaking in heave seas was deafening (and scary). Did you tell them you had all the cracks fixed, and next sail they all came back and that you decided this was not right and lost confidence in the boat. Wow, I can't believe they still were interested after learning all that. How much did you have to discount the price?
It’s always better to avoid a lawsuit than to win one. Here, regardless of whether you have a legal duty to disclose a serious problem with the boat, disclosure may be the choice that keeps the seller out of trouble.
@@lowryshank94 At the time it was our first boat, so we did not understand the implication or causes. We later discovered that heavy creaking is common on many Lagoon models due to the way the wooden panels are fitted to the hull. We met an owner of a 500 who had to sweep up plies of shavings behind panels after an Atlantic crossing. And no the purchasers did not get a discount as their surveyor seemed to think this was normal.
@@johnhayford5946 you had all the cracks fixed, and next sail they all came back and that you decided this was not right and lost confidence in the boat. How do you think your buyers will feel about your delayed disclosure. how might they react, lawsuit? How would you feel had you had been the buyer. What sweet Karma should they find out straight from the horses (ass) mouth. How would the surveyor had known since you had surely covered up the cracks a second time. How many owners discover the problems, patch them up, sell with no disclosure??????
@@lowryshank94 the issue is with the designer & builder! Unless the previous owner is a naval architect! 🙄
Cheers to you for tackling this project. You’re already 10 steps ahead by putting yourself in the right place and surrounded by the right folks. Colin / Jaime and the rest of Parlay Crew are incredible humans. Subbed!
Amen brother! They saved my ass!
Hi David, I have been watching Colin for over a year. His experience and now yours is going to make many gun shy of the 45’s. I would really like to hear if anyone with a 38 or a 39 has every experienced similar. I looked over the Lagoon 65 at a boat show in Australia and on entering the starboard cabin the overwhelming smell of fresh timber pervaded the hull. I lifted a deck plate to reveal raw ply everywhere. It really turned me off Lagoons.
It doesn’t look like the 38/39/40/42 Lagoons have this issue. But to be honest My main focus has been tracking the 450s.
That's the sound of Lagoon prices dropping like a stone in the water. It answers the longevity question of production cats as well. At least for Lagoon. Wishing you good luck on your repairs and hoping Lagoon will eventually help their owners out. I was thinking about pulling the trigger on a used Lagoon but not now. Thanks for sharing your troubles.
David, I am sure you already know that those Parlay guys are super good guys! GOOD LUCK with your issues!
Lagoon should have stood tall and gave overwhelming support and guidance..Now Lagoon will suffer great loss due to their failure to act in good faith...Scratched off my list
Absolutely agree! Doing the right thing would only paid dividends on their long term reputation....which I would think they care about!
His boat as you know was a hurricane damaged boat ,
@@davidwarnes5158 This one, as you know, isn't.
@@davidwarnes5158 the reports are coming in, almost all the lagoons are bent, hurricane or not.
@@josephhertzberg2734 all the ones I've sailed had no issues incl 450 .
I quite enjoyed when Colin was on the phone with the architect and he passed it off as weakness from the wiring holes drilled in the bulkhead. While it’s upsetting that this is a systemic flaw in these boats. It’s nice to hear that lagoon seems willing to help those with ungrounded, non hurricane boats. I suspect as this progresses there will be an engineer and likely the architect pay your boat and parlay a visit to confirm that the suggested repair works as intended.
Spread the word. Don't buy a Lagoon. Not until they come to the table with funds and repair schemes!
Lagoons are built by Beneteau if I understand correctly. They definitely need to step up and say something.
Beneteau also known as "Bendytoy"
@@donaldshaw6824 Good to know !
@@donaldshaw6824 Of course, the 49 foot model with automatic keel detach button when those pesky reefs get in the way. Or to just liven up those days drifting 1200nm from land in 7000 feet of water.
Colin on parlay has been in contact with them and has gotten help from them. As far as them admitting fault, that will never happen.
Sooo cool when people share knowledge to help each other!
be careful a little knowledge can be really dangerous - you need the experience and judgement calls to go with it
This is a class action waiting to happen, Lagoon dropped the fucking ball so hard.
Gentleman, the camera loves you madly, you have the personality and the charisma, which are things that you have or you don't have but you can't buy, I look forward to your next videos, but I predict a good future for you in this medium of entertainment. Greetings and good luck with the repairs
YoYoMi, really appreciate the kind words. Very motivating, and that’s exactly what I need at the moment. Just trying to put to words the nonsense running through my head. The next video is for you bro!
Lagoons reputation in now bent and in tatters just like their boats. They need to rebuild both. Factory recall and fix on every single lagoon is what’s necessary.
Totally agree, but how do we get them to do this...feeling like legal action is the only way.
Boats are out of warranty no real recourse They were built for a price and purpose. MOST boaters have no clue why an Oyster or an Amel cost so much more then a Hunter or Bavaria or Benetto. IRWINS WERE Built the same way to a price profit point. The only thing between you and the bottom of the Sea is the quality of the boats structure Even quality boats have failures but not structural ones.New fiberglass boats off gas for decades. I know people that never smoked or drank RETIRED bought a brand new boat closed it up spent Half their life inside sleeping and living in air conditioning developed liver cancer kidney cancer lung cancer. Older is better the resin has cured.
@@frankferris300 You are Only partialy correct.
The price points should'nt mean sacrifice in structural integrity! The price must come down in furniture,equipement,finnishing touches,man hours etc etc.
Oyster did lose a boat due to keel falling off! Halber-Rassy also loose a boat due to keel tearing appart!
Bavaria looks great in comparison to them as they also had lost only one boat due to keel falling off!! But how many bavarias are out there? How much abused and neglected they are?
Hunters were always POS, and Amels had always have glassed keel.
And the off-gasing issue you are bringing up front is not from the hulls/decks, but from the furniture,floors,boards,bulkheads...and everything that is not "boat"! (Mute point as the modern homes off-gas even more!)
@@stormtrooper9404 You are wrong but you only know what little you think you know it.Production boats are all a cheap compromise.Just because they made a bunch of them means nothing most stay near shore or in protected waters.
@@david_shih start with the facebook group and lodge a class action
LAGOON is about to start getting all kinds of hell for this. I wonder if it could turn into a class action lawsuit...
My thoughts of getting a Lagoon now in doubt. 100% correct about using the 3 full pieces of ply in the bulk head which I thought after seeing Colin's video.... simple stuff missing.
Some of you Lagoon owners should organize and make a strong legal action against Lagoon in order to get some kind of compensation and avoid Them to keep on cheating their clients. They have to pay in some way !! You cant let them get away with it !!
I’m so glad your telling the full story, I can’t stand a boat builder skimping on ply & proper shit glass work...Criminal
Great move getting advice from the LEGEND Capt. Colin and first mate Jamie! Those 2 could pimp or fix any damaged cat!
Good luck mate! Hope all goes well and you get your cat all fixed up! Cheers from the States!
Pleaseee homeboy. Robert Perry is a legend. Hobart "Hobie" Alter is a legend. In all due respect Colin is a guy who unwisely bought a number of hurricane salvage boats. When his first purchase ended up with a broken back he doubled up and bought two more salvage boats with an investors money and talked up plans to make them better than new, new engines, electronics etc. Sounded wonderful. At the end of the day he flipped 4 boats making marginal money and doing the glass work on another, the success should be awarded to a really fine fiberglas guy he found in Palm Beach, before bailing out back to Panama after completing nothing. Flipping the two motor yachts is fine but again with OPM. Then making grandiose plans to 100% restore two CATS using investor funds to sell for maximum profit and then not succeeding and bailing out is not my definition of legendary. Never a mention of his initial partner in Parlay nor the money man and the CAT left unfinished in Palm Beach. I just don't buy into the whole hero worship deal except it makes for interesting YT content I suppose. Seems like just another YT grifter to me. Just calling it as I see it. If not for YT this story would have likely ended long ago.
@@lowryshank94 All Time longest you tube reply! Haters gonna hate! Why did your boy go to Colin for advice>? Hummmm
Not everyone has 1 million for a new cat!
@@rockysouthflorida1707 Don't know maybe desperate. Like taking your Porsche 911 to get overhauled at Super Lube. People seem to love these youtubers that drift around sinking their boats and constantly creating drama asking for subscriptions, donations and free stuff to bail them out of their self inflicted hardships. Meanwhile 95% of the people out there cruising perform their proper due diligence and buy the best quality boat they can afford and not the biggest with known defects. My hats off to guys like Colin, turns junk boats into content and drama, people buy in and he likely banks $70-80K per year from YT, brilliant, it was a great plan like MTV to get money for nothing. Then you have guys like Leo on Tallyho that have forgotten more about building a boat than Colin will likely ever know yet his tube channel suffers because it lacks drama. Social media has changed who people define as heroes and not in a positive way.
Hey Lowry, let’s keep the insults on me and my vids and keep my friends out of it-I may or may not know how to use a hammer, that’s up for debate. You’re entitled to your opinions, but I’m really confused why you follow his life religiously and know every mundane fact about him if you think he’s so unlegendary. I thought I looked up to the guy and I don’t know half as much about him as you do.
@@david_shih When one publishes on YT they need to expect that not everyone is going to buy into your program and be a fan. I have been sailing since I was 6 years old growing up in S. Florida and have owned over a dozen boats , five of which were sailboats. I have successfully refurbished boats. I along with many more knowledgeable than I agree that buying an even partially submerged cored hull sailboat shows lack of knowledge and poor judgement. While most yards in my home town Palm Beach require all subcontractors to furnish a license and proof of insurance Colin sets up shop renovating salvage cats seeming without regard for the formalities the come with being in business etc insurance, comp., licensing, withholding ss. Basically unfair to all the yards and subcontractors who are in business the correct way. He still has not completed a single project he started. I am indeed entitled to my opinion and proud of the fact I have been a Cert. General Contractor having completed over 500 homes without spending a day in court, never failed to complete a project I began, because I have conducted business the right way. If you go on YT and I don't believe you handle your affairs' properly I will call you out. I am not sheeple for sure. Likewise I readily praise people and brands who do incredible work worthy of legend status. If I save even one person from throwing their life savings down the drain on a hurricane ravaged vessel or junk like lagoon puts out ,opening their eyes to the adherent risks, I feel that I have done an honorable service! I have attempted to give you good advise but because of delay in posting videos you had already sailed 1100nm to tear your boat apart although unlike Parlay you had a very good claim to damages had you been patient . Hoping the best for you but not a decision most owners with this problem would make.
you're monologue is soo soo funny. Sets this channel very different from the others...keep going!
Glad someone else thinks so, my wife usually just gives me the look when I start ranting.
@@david_shih No, I don’t! 🙄
We see the bulkheads bowed and pushed down (failing in compression) because the weight of the deck above pounds on the bulkhead as the boat plows through heavy seas. I have personally seen this happen on a much smaller boat. It was a 21 foot T-Craft (they are long gone) that had two aluminum tubes to support the deck. After chasing bluefish in rough weather, both tubes were buckled. I replaced them with 3/4 diameter solid aluminum and that solved the problem. The pounding also damage the deck in the area of the supports which I repaired. This was some time in the late seventies.
thanks for the insight! crazy that it also happens on much smaller and lighter boats like a 21footer.
Dude... sick content, i don't even own av boat but enjoyed this video very much! Great personality\energy and amazing shots! Keep it up. Thanks for saving me the money and headache, i'll never buy a Lagoon if I ever get a boat :)
I LOVE THE ENERGY OF THIS CHANNEL! I HOPE U GET UR BOAT RUNNING AND START SAILING AND DOCUMENT IT ALL!
Will do my friend! Can't wait to show your more footage!
Dave. There's a lot of mental/moral support I'm reading here. ABSOLUTELY love the collaboration with Parlay. That's what it's about. You have every reason to get your agro on. But big respect to the "can-do" attitude. Wish more people would pull together. Keep learning and living. The whole world should have a sailing community attitude. Live the dream, Brother!
i was looking for a 45 Lagoon till i saw you guys having serious issues with the boat.Changed my mind and looking for a 46 Leopard now. Lagoons are doing very wrong business here
Check out the leopard 48. It was my 2nd choice and such a beautiful boat. I just wish it had a flybridge!
Better check the Leopard bulkheads too just in case.
@@Timbo_tango i doubt they have any issues like lagoon has.But yeah sure will check
Hello David, Hang in there, it is lucky you have Colin,s experience and his presence to guide you on the repairs. I have not seen a recent posting by you so I hope it’s going well, keep the spirits up and you will be finished better than new..much better than new...be nice to get some assistance from Lagoon towards material costs at the very least..cheers
From what I see if the boat is back together in 3 months you will have done real good ! Cheers mate
I here you , Colin is so focused. Fix it together. I’m pulling for you both.
These videos are great for the second hand boat market for people who have the skills to fix these cats. Once straightened and glassed they will be stronger than new nice 👍🏼
Watching David's and Colin's videos I don't think I would be buying a Lagoon.
Great view into the insides of these very expensive boats. I marvel at the amount of panel and trim that should have been integrated into the boat so that it provides strength, rather than just be “hung” on a lacking carcass. Guess that is result of having land residence-style construction methods applied to a marine vessel.
My new favorite channel! Great personality! The best to you David, pulling for you!
wow, thanks so much! will be uploading regularly now that I'm back home in houston for a few weeks.
Glad you made it safely to Linton, you are in good hands now with the Parlay legends Colin and Jamie!
All the best to you unbending ur 🐈, subbed 👍
Thank you, and it's since been unbent!!!! And it feels so good...haulout coming in a couple videos!!!
"Their boat is fucked" "My boat is fucked too." Excellent evaluation!
Hahahaha. Mine is “properly” theirs is “very”!
@@david_shih PMSL
@@david_shih Just seeing the factory sortcuts on the tripple ply not going all the way to the ceiling means anyone with a Lagoon 450 is f*cked. Oh whats that sound? Just Lagoon dealers leaving town! .
...... In other news today 6 catermaran fires at 6 different mariners were strangely all of the same manufacture... So far no comment from Lagoona.
Just subscribed. Keep the videos coming! Good luck with your project. We really like your style and energy.
Thanks for the moral support! Going to need every bit I can get to finish this insane repair!
David brother going back and reaching these older videos.... 3-4 weeks.... Hahaha love your optimism! 😂😂😂😂
Hahah 😂 maybe 4 wks…
Lagoon needs a lawsuit against them this is crazy.
I think lagoon has a big problem ahead if all owners find same faults, one they fix the problem, two they buy back, three (go into liquidation and close down.
Big car companies call back when they find a fault. Also this could end up like the emissions scandal and lagoon be forced to reimburse owners. Hope lagoon do the proper thing and help out with cost. Good luck everyone,
Regards Wales UK 🏴
A+ for both Attitude and Style. Both yous and Parlay..
Thanks Eugenio! We appreciate you bro!
Wow glad to see this video, I won’t be chartering lagoons. Who would want to put their family at risk catastrophic or not this is quiet concerning.
Definitely a design flaw. I bet Lagoons sales will drop after people see these videos between Parlay and yours. 🤦♂️
Subscribed just to watch this maelstrom play out. Big respect David for going in on this fearless f-you style and handling it yourself. I’d do the same thing. Thanks for sharing!
Hell yeah! Thanks for the support!
@@david_shih No worries man. Only thing I will say is, where you can, try to take a high road with Lagoon. Hopefully there can be some healing there in some way. I realize you are pissed and I would be super pissed, beyond super pissed. Thankfully Lagoon is helping by proxy and that’s worth a lot as well. Keep us updated man. I’ve got big respect for any man that rolls up his sleeves and adds new skills. That’s legit pioneering spirit. Keep it up!
Great video! Good to see Kiwis in the carib are showing their knowledge in a friendly way.
Yikes! These videos by you and Collin will help a lot of boat buyers do assessments of all dual hull boats 👍
Happy we can help!
David, really enjoying your videos so far! Your first video was suggested after watching Colin's. I'll definitely be watching along are you complete your repairs!
@8:18 The surrounding cabinet actually seems stronger than the bulkhead :)
I will use closed cell foam (high strength structural spray foam) to fill the gap after fixing the bulkhead, just to get extra strength
You’re not far off! The way we’re repairing, there’s going to be extra plywood and fiberglass going all the way to the current cabin walls.
Just subbed, I'm number 745. Looking forward to watching your channel blow up. You have the right help in Colin and Jamie, Good luck,
Same, #1170. Looking forward to the journey. Cheers and good luck David
So much work! I can’t wait to see it finished!
I've learned a lot looking at these two boats. I had a test sail on a Lagoon 50 a few years ago, it did not seem like a boat designed by sailors. I thought Parlay was a one off and Lagoon were being pretty decent with their assistance given that the issues could have been due to hurricane damage. However having seen your damage there is no doubt in my mind that this is structural - 100% - undeniable by anyone who knows anything about sailboats. Lagoon would do well to simply stand over this now as the 45 will be dead in the water as a resale and the collateral damage to the brand will be significant and long lasting....these things linger....like a bad smell. Good luck but I think this job would be beyond me......I'd probably flog it to a yard at a massive discount and take the hit. I've taken the liberty of google translating my comments to French to make it easier for Lagoon to understand what's at stake here........
J'ai beaucoup appris en regardant ces deux bateaux. J'ai fait un essai de voile sur un Lagoon 50 il y a quelques années, cela ne ressemblait pas à un bateau conçu par des marins. Je pensais que Parlay était unique et que Lagoon était assez décent avec leur aide étant donné que les problèmes auraient pu être dus aux dommages causés par l'ouragan. Cependant, après avoir vu vos dégâts, il ne fait aucun doute dans mon esprit que c'est structurel - à 100% - indéniable par quiconque sait quelque chose sur les voiliers. Lagoon ferait bien de simplement rester debout maintenant car le 45 sera mort dans l'eau en tant que revente et les dommages collatéraux à la marque seront importants et durables .... ces choses persistent .... comme une mauvaise odeur. . Bonne chance, mais je pense que ce travail me dépasserait ... Je le fouetterais probablement dans un mètre à un rabais énorme et prendrais le coup.
To be honest, the job is beyond me as well...but I’m all in now so I’m finding a way to make it through this. Trying to do everything to keep this sailing dream alive...we’ve been planning this for years!
It's all about cutting weight, cost, and assembly time
Sadly you’re right.
Its all about suites and ties and corparate dinners
I’ve been looking at Lagoons too, PHEW! glad I saw this and Collins boat too
David, I feel your pain. When I saw in Parlay inches thick glue between the the hull and deck that wasn't even making contact I was not impressed. Not to mention the bent/broken mast structure that is totally inadequate. It does seem that the least Lagoon could do is provide a structural reinforcement plan along with laminate schedules, recommended reinforcement areas and a method of cabin teardown that would avoid rebuilding all that nice veneered plywood.
The glue and gap is crazy! I have a huge gap under that salon door as well, and that was straight from the factory because you can clearly see the glue never having touched the underside of the deck. It’s just frustrating having so little influence over such a large company. I just cut out the new wooden bulkhead sandwiches yesterday…can’t wait to get this done!
Since Colin has done such a great, "LaGoonamentary". Would like to suggest maybe using 6" or so, carefully placed access holes. Do not remove all the glue at the corners as Colin has done. It will act as a bridge helping the new glass to lay down nicely. Even glass the backsides of some of that beautiful 3/4" ply that Colin has been cutting up and removing, to the hull. Adding more strength to all the structures. Use chemicals to soften the fiberglass where grinding isn't feasible for chemical bonding contact. It seems a shame to cut out, all that beautiful finish ply when there are other solutions, that won't compromise strength and safety. Lagoon will probably never recover from this or offer any compensation. I don't fault Lagoon or blame them for shoddy work. They tried something that didn't work. "Better to try and fail, then to never try at all". We're Sailors, the small percent of the world’s population accustomed to "trying".
Lagoon is gonna find a huge number of people shopping elsewhere. This shows its a systemic problem. Crossing Lagoon off my list.
Yup... Was never interested in the heavy polyester factory Cats, this makes it a sure thing I'd never buy a Lagoon even if it was a great deal.
Parle revival video advert is we bought a hurricane damaged lagoon. Thats not lagoon,
Do you have history of them being lifted , easy to lift incorrect and twist ,
They should get lifted through the hulls not accross , but not many places have a crane big enough,
@@davidwarnes5158 Let me guess, you own a Goon...............
@@lowryshank94 no I sail them for work , crossed oceans , they are a charter boat . I have run larger lagoons and know what they can take
I have had to look for places to lift out , its not easy , like all cats they flex, evan tighning the rig to much will distort them.
To high sided , to much wind age, costs to much for haul out , and limited places to go. Crap sailing , but great tied up and socialising or a quiet anchorage .
Why were your issues not picked up at survey, ?
@@davidwarnes5158 I own a 58' Steel Expedition Ketch and the stated it was one of if not the finest vessel he had surveyed in 30 years. Surveyors aren't inclined to tear out cabinets checking if BH are tabbed correctly. Now if the the rig is dangling loose and doors don't close that my be another thing. By all accounts this appears to be a serious latent defect
good luck and what a great move to be in with colin and his team.. all the mass produced boats are the same, built fast and to a max profit budget.. they look great but i guess will be land fill sooner than later no 100 year old classic lagoons in the futre..
They would look good tied up at your dock. Perhaps a B+B
We are going to spend a good 3 or 4 weeks here...LOL
Hello there David, I had a look for you 'Contact Details' was going to forward an email that I sent to Colin .... Ask him to show you .... Discussed building 'Beams' and doing a 'Ply Sandwich', bonded with Heavy Biaxial Cloth Between and Over. The 'Design' .... ( Used the term loosely ) was way too light for all those Massive Loads from the Shrouds, No REAL 'Triangulation' in the 'Structure' or Build. The 'Torsional' Loads between the 2 'Pontoons', when going thru' and across big swells, will destroy those Bulkheads and 'Buckle' the rest of the 'Walls' and floors..... Very best to You All, thanks for your Great Vidclip .... Cheers from New Zealand
finally a spot on comment
Sounds like a great resource. Look me up on Facebook and I’d love to connect. Try searching my name and “Texas”.
@@david_shih David, I think alot of the twisting and shearing is due to the shrouds not carrying loads/tensions directly thru the bulkheads. If they are offset at all, then there will be shearing and twisting.
Lagoon has alot to answer to.
Any ideas on how to get them to help fix their mistakes?
@@david_shih sue them is prolly about the only way
@@david_shih Colin proved that the damage wasnt the result of the hurricane because the remedial work was done prior to this, a simple google search (Lagoon 450 bulkheads) will reveal the extent of the failures.
Thanks for posting this, look forward to more videos. Could you please make a video about when you purchased the boat, how long ago, and was used. when did you discover that you had the bulkhead issue. a little past about the boat would be really nice. thank you again for a very informative video about the bulkheads
From all my build and fiberglass experience, Looks to me like; all but for the want of two more pieces of marine plywood during the build process. Yes, you can laminate plywood with fiberglass and fiber. does add extra weight, but better than being a big paperweight after a short time.
I would hope to see a structural, accessible alloy skeleton with the strength to withstand the work it has to do..
Recreational build that is fine as long as it is not in a big storm or thrown around at the dock in a hurricane. Those bulkheads are like the upper part of a truss bridge, the whole truss has to handle the load not just the part connecting to the road bed. The triple plywood or some wood beaming should be used throughout the bulkhead, in particular since it is a square and not triangular, top and sides. The bottom plate might be fine for recreational boating and keeping the hulls from doing their own thing, but the truss of the cabin makes it structurally sound to not only keep the hulls from doing their own thing but also support the weight of a hull out of the water in the extreme.
Good to hear, I’ll be reinforcing the 2 outside plywood pieces all the way to the top!
With years of building and studying composite sailboats, I have formed this opinion. Catamarans are a design flaw. By this I mean that having two hulls, moving over and threw the waves at different angles creating different roll and pitch are producing conflicting stresses to the bulkheads and the bridge deck’s structural integrity to hold the boat together and all the time adding compression stress from the mast and tensile stress from the rig that is transmitted to the hulls.
I've honestly never thought about it like that, but you definitely have a point. I could have never imagined the crazy forces at play until I did my 1st real crossing. The way your hulls are battered in different by the waves is insane. And don't forget that each hull weights about 6 tons! It's a whole lot of force.
I ask myself, is this a Lagoon only problem, or is this a Catamaran problem. When you examine the forces involved on a catamaran with the mast centered between 2 hulls separated by a large distance, and then you tighten the standing rigging to significant pressure, add to it the stress of wave action, something has to give. Maybe not right away, but over time these forces WILL take effect. I'm not sure more plywood and fiberglass is going to solve the problem. I would be looking at designing sheet metal panels and sandwiching the existing plywood between them and thru bolting them together.
I feel the same way mate, the "big 3" are pretty much all built the same way( though I don't know for sure, just suspect they are), it happens when accountants go into the boat building industry. I don't think I'd trust any of them now..... We may look at a MUMBY design now, or similar
David, you know you've worked hard when you can smell yourself... just found your TH-cam channel and subscribed.
Haha thanks so much for finding me and even more for subscribing!!!! Panamanian humidity + sweat + sauna like heat = no bueno.
Good luck David and stay strong ..I'v been watching and gripped seeing Colin and Co making progress and you have a great point of reference now regarding the repairs with the guys next door lol
Couldn't do it without them! Thanks for watching!
@@david_shih Welcome David.Looking forward to the next episode ..Craig
Your vids are so good! Please do more sailing ones!!!
Will do! Can’t wait to actually be sailing!
You’re on the money, those 3 sections of ply should have been extended right through! They should have also been epoxy laminated together! Then you have the minimum standard of construction! Those things are built to leave a Marina! 😎🏖🌴☀️🇦🇺
Even if all the bulkheads were just double laminated with epoxy and properly tabbed with epoxy to the hull from port to starboard it would have been much stronger than what is existing. It seems Lagoon's designers and engineers really dropped the ball on structural integrity to save on production costs. Also the way the bulkheads are hidden from view and easy inspection is suspicious.
I watch Colin and you David, good you are together working on the same issue.
Something I noticed when Colin hauled out and they were backing off the rigging they had to put out on those large wreches just to break those turnbuckles loose. Not getting in to setting rigging here point is over time how many people retentioned the rigging without questioning why. Parlay and I suspect others were TACOED by poor construction and rigging retentioning over an extended period of time.
Multi hull less forgiving than mono.
This is just my observation I'm not a boat wright but I am a mill wright.
And to you at Lagoon, Wrong don't make Wright. When Colin pulled those doubler plywood pieces off they had a squiggly line of adhesive from a caulking gun that was all.
The saga continues.
Best to you all.
I actually borrowed those same wrenches to break my shrouds loose! And it turns out the tensions that parlay used were well within Lagoon spec!
@@david_shih point is bulkheads move shrouds loose tension overtime get retentioned, weak bulkheads move etc. Those bulkheads appear not to be able to stand up to the stress applied to them.
No way can you tell how much tension was on Parleys' shrouds by yanking on a pair of Cresent wrenches was it 15% or 20% of breaking strength or something else?
Look at Parleys video and notice the small amount of adhesive on the plywood doubler plates.
I do wise you all the best on your repairs it's nothing a little time and money won't take care of.
Hello David,
My 2012 Lagoon 450F is in Shelter Bay, Panama just west of you guys. I’m flying down next week (Monday May 24th) to inspect it for this problem. I’m going to meet up with Colin too. Where is your boat?
Can't miss it, the one that is all twisted and distorted
It’s right next to Colin’s! 😀
For sure it will be more than a 100 450's with the same problem lagoons are done
@@grahamwheelock7497 I think there are 55 at the moment? But keep in mind not all are that bad and some have no warping at all. Leopard in 95-2005 had similar issues where they had to send a factory technician to cut out the entire decking, the only difference is today we have Social Media. I'm sure this will cost Lagoon some money but I'm confident this will blow over soon.
@@TommyHolly i am a foreman in a shipyard that has hauled out many of boat you say the problems are not so bad in others in the world of boat building and repair there is no tolerance for bad craftsmanship be it 1 of 100 boats built the manufacturer should stand by the product remember these are supposed to be ocean crossing vessels
RAN INTO COLIN??
You stalked and chased him down like a schoolgirl band groupie, lol.
I would have done the same thing in your situation.
Love your show and your enthusiasm, keep it up!
Bahahahaha! I wouldn’t exactly call it stalking… I only sent him 10 emails and 43 messages on 4 different platforms. It was the 1st video so I couldn’t exactly say, “hey guys, I stalked my favorite youtuber to a foreign country and btw I don’t have any boat repair experience. But I’m not crazy I promise.”
Came here from Parlay, “my boat is properly f@(ked” 🤣🤣. Good on you to sail to an expert!
Thanks! So glad I found them...I was in way over my head and had no idea at the time.
I was probably not the only one, but when I saw your last video, I sent Colin a message on his last video that you were in Linton bay with the same problem! I hope that helped!
Yes! He told me :) thanks, he’s been a tremendous help.
that's awesome bro always keep that positive attitude it will see you through 100%
Thanks for this video, sorry for the work you have ahead watching the other videos you can do it, but it's a lot of work, prepare for a long marathon, not a sprint.
Have become a big fan bro. Come from the Parley family. 👊🇨🇰🇳🇿
Yeah boy!!! Thanks for joining us Tuaiti!
I'm just offering my opinion to anyone else dealing with this issue. If possible have a Lagoon dealer inspect and document any issues before you try to repair any issues yourself. After reading Lagoon's response you may be. negativity effecting any financial compensation or assistance from them if you start doing modifications without advice from a naval engineer or the builder. In addition their response is obviously not admitting any liability with the design unfortunately it's pretty obvious this is a design flaw so hopefully enough people speak up and it gets fixed. Best wishes to you and your family, really unfortunate that a 500k+ boat has that kind of build quality.
Wow! So right. A few hundred buck of ply and glass would save the boat. Such a shame on
Lagoon.
It’s so clear to me this is a Design issue mean that’s my opinion anyways and I think you’re right if you look at other lagoons I think most of them are going to be bent
I see an opportunity for a group of you guys that get experience on fixing several Lagoons to start a business of bulkhead repair. There is obviously no shortage of potential customers!
Sadly you're right on the potential customers...around 200 lagoon 450's with the bulkheads broken in the same place!
Love the videos bro. Hopefully you get it all worked out !
Thanks so much! Won’t stop till we do!
Great that a community with common goals can come together to overcome adversity and negligence, not so good for the offending party that gets to see their dirty laundry aired with spectacular production values. But in the end it'll be nice to see them crossing the oceans again.
Sorry you have to deal with this, hope it works out for you and you can get a settlement
A bad day working on a boat you love is better than a good day stuck in the office.
I love how you handle the tragedy with Humor. Good luck, my boat is a much bigger project, but don't worry you can fix anything with duct tape. ⛵⛵⛵
If I didn’t keep laughing I’d be in tears. And yes...duct tape for everything. I’ve got some on the bottom of my foot covering a cut at the moment.
si se puede con la ayuda de Colin todo se puede,.....
I have been watching the PARLAY REVIVAL guys for months and now I see you guys with the same problems, sorry. I am sitting out Covid in my house in Saskatoon Canada and would love to grab a bag of tools and a laser level and give a hand. I have border issues in Canada now but things are loosening up maybe at the end of the month I will re-asses. I was thinking Lagoon 450 or a little bigger now that I have the sailing bug but after you guys have opened your boats up and we see the weak design and ambiguous support, I will be looking for a different builder. No mater what I will be in Texas at the end of June to look at the Space X Starship with my son who is graduating this year hope you are home by then. Keep us updated on the work and maybe I can be some use next month.
Ah Canada, very cold! Where in Texas do we go for a rocket launch, I’d love to see that! Any experience fiber glassing?
@@david_shih I may have done some repairs on a speed boat that I may have cut through the hull when I was taking out the rot in the floor. I learned a lot but not as much as watching the Parlay boys and 3 other sailing shows that have everyone working on fiber glass. I have built a couple of super efficient houses for my self, and rebuilt many houses while living in them, worked in the waterproofing/roofing trade while in school, but really i'm a computer guy, (sort of an efficiency expert), business owner. Lately I watch sailing shows making plans while my last kid finishes high school and help manage my daughters budding music career ( I pay the bills), while rebuilding yet another house. HA!!! My wife said I should fly out and help because I'm board with out a direction or a job. She hopes I won't buy a catamaran if I see how much work they are and been reminding me how little sailing I've done since the 80's. :-( If I had my last last covid shot we wouldn't be texting I would be glassing with you boys). I am working out when I can get my last shot (trying to be a responsible adult) and then we can talk. How long do you think you will be working on the Cat? How are things going?
Space X will be stacking the Star Ship on it's booster (like putting a huge grain bin on top of an even bigger grain bin), biggest rocket ever, at the end of June and shooting the Starship into space near Boca Chica TX. My Boy is a serious programmer / space nut and won't get a graduation party here in Canada, so I said we can drive down since neither of us have been to Texas and visit family on they way.
Great video series David, this is good info for owners!
Thanks bill glad you like it! Any feedback on potential improvements?
There's levels to being fucked...lol.
Super stoked you have these videos showing the fix.
If only I knew then what I know now…well actually I’m glad I was so naive back then or I just might have given up and missed out on one of the most epic adventures of my life. Repairing these bulkheads led to this TH-cam channel and a lifelong friendship with Parlay and a host of other awesome characters I’ve met along the way.
@@david_shih Yes indeed. Love it brother. Keep it going!
So sorry that this happened on your yacht. I am so glad we never used wood in our yacht production. More expensive to make but stronger and lighter. Too bad everyone bought boats on name brand. Now we see the corners cut for years.
Another one? Damn Lagoon bout to be OUT of business. After seeing Colin tear his apart and see the shoddy build quality I imagine there ISN'T a bent Lagoon out there.
Every single one that owns a Lagoon 450 should get a survey now !! Values will tank and having a survey now will document your losses for recovery from Lagoon.
IF your boat does not have issues now would be the time to sandwich those bulkheads some more before they do.
Go Ironman go!! Just now seeing your video. Hope you were able to get everything repaired.
fellow triathlete!!! about to splash in 2 vids from now!
You make a key point David. Plus your video shows beyond doubt that a single 18mm ply is sufficient for this application. I too would sandwich each side. Plus the cost in the LAGOON build would be negligible - a design error - not caused by a hurricane either!