MS661 vs MS660 Why New Stihl Sucks
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2023
- A quick overview of why modern still MS661C R sucks and a quick comparison vs 660 and 066
#timberfallingcouple #timber #timberfaller #timberfalling #logging #chainsaw #stihlchainsaw #stihl #bluecollar #treesurgery #lumber #fyp #pnw #timberland #trees #woodwork #woodcraft #woodsmen #womenshealth #womenintimber #westcoastfaller #chainsawman - กีฬา
Are those 661s early models? They might have made improvements on the later ones
So true. The 660 is now considered the benchmark for toughness reliability and build quality. Arborist offered to buy mine off me for nearly new retail price. No way im parting with it. Stihl is loosing the plot.
So true about those flip caps. More like dirt traps.
Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom. New sub. Chainsaws and Firearms. Sounds like my weekend
Right on man, thanks for coming out!
Hey pardner i appreciate your input on those 661s im in the market for a 80-90cc saw but i think i might look elsewhere never been a fan of the newer stuff and you just gave me some insight 😉 i do appreciate your time happy holidays to you and yours take care .....Benny
Lots of guys saying 585 husky. It's carbureted and they're saying 592 cylinder will swap on
Great choice
Does the new 585 have a traditional carb? Don't know if it would suit. UK distributor called Logs and Saws has a 390 in stock and a couple of other 3 series
I'm not certain, but I thought all the 5 series had autotune. It would have been good to stock up on the last of 390 and 395, but I didn't have the dough at the time they announced discontinuation, the 660 thing happened. 800 dollar saws went to 1200 overnight
@@timberfallingcouple Think it has a needle carb to keep Husky's foot in the door with hot shot crews. Worth checking. Wish I'd never passed up on a sanely priced pre lockdown 395, never have the money at the right time
@@timberfallingcouple yea the 585 is manual tune carb. At the shop we are gonna try a 585 with a 592 cylinder and piston and see what happens.
@funkysawmanwright5077 that is great news. I've ran 385s with 36 inch gear and they run no different to a 390
Have you tried Echo?
Hi, I’ve been buying any 460’s and 660’s I come across even if the don’t run. I put after market top ends on them. I’m not a fan of the new saws myself. I bought a few echo’s. ( 7310 ). They are in the 70 cc range. Seem to work well. I just don’t like the feel in the hands compared to the 46.
Thanks for the video
I'm telling you, 500i is where it's at for new saws. Been cutten timber for over 22 years with about every saw model and brand made by man. The 660 is one of my favorite older saws though.
I've tried buddies 500s. Too small runs too lean. Them things are gonna scatter under what I do to em man.
@@timberfallingcouple got guys up here running them milling with 32 inch bars, over 750 hrs on one all original. But yea I see your point, the floppy av really sucks too
I hav3nt even owned a 32 inch bar in probably 6 years
@@timberfallingcouple too lean? That’s the first time I’ve heard that, usually they run pig rich and guzzle fuel
@robertclifford1099 every one I've ever touched ran white screens and bounced off the limiter [which is set at 13.5k on 661 if memory serves me]
Not sure your region of the country, but the used aftermarket for older saws where I live is fairly stocked. I've had good luck picking up older Stihls in good shape for absolute deals. I hope this helps....stay warm!
The bottom antivibe mount is thin and breaks off if set down hard or left idling on hard surface to long.
Long list of gripes
That’s surprising to hear. I dropped my 034 onto concrete and it didn’t do anything to the cases.
@crhonda6425 yeah I legitimately think that saw or gasket was just a lemon. Nothing fit up right. I'll resurrect the old huskies after my 660s wear out
I guess I'll be looking for a good used 660 instead of getting a 661.
They have a carbed version made in brazil. So idk how it would compare quality wise.
yeah ive been hearing from a lot of guys that the 585 is still carbureted. which, ive never used, but i had a 385 in the way back that was indistinguishable from a 390
Stihl built some great saws from 1980 to 2000 (or so). Then things changed. The MS junk came out. The oil caps changed. And so on. I kept the 5000i I bought new for a total of four gas tanks full of gas and sold it. I'm thinking about mounting a Maytag washing machine engine on a two-man cross cut, see how that works.
The ms460 was pretty much unchanged from the 046 except for the flip caps.
I’m a big fan of the older late 80’s to early 2000’s saws. I’ve got an 034 converted over to an 036 that is near and dear to me now. Actually looking to sell my 026 to free up garage space for an 064 that’s still OEM and in good shape. Thought about picking up a used 661 but they are just sooo expensive. $900 used the 064 is $400. A bit of a no brainer there. I might be a stihl fan but I like any saw that runs good and is reliable.
You are absolutely right the older souls will never die. I have a new 038. 046. 056 M souls oh Al Ron picture my 661 or any other new song. Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
I should have never sold my 064, good info I’ll definitely go with a 660 over the 661 when I get a bigger saw again.
My 038av is a absolute brute for a grandpa, she starts every time and will fell Alligator Juniper, which a round can be almost six feet diameter on average.
A logging contractor I worked for was so fed up with all the problems with stihl one day he took em all and threw them in the dumpster and switched over to Jonsereds and never looked back.
I still run an 056 and a 440. They run great.
I am going to refreeze this had too much noise in the background. Sorry I have 038. 046 065 the older saws will never die. I’ve been running them for over 20 years and never had a problem with him. I have an 661 ran it for two years had nothing but problems with it. Leaks oil hard to start.
Yeah. I've always done my own m3chanic work on power saws as wwell, and these 661s give me fits. Constant finicky tuning issues, acting weird, had some malfunctive carburetors out of brand new saws. The second I open up the old 660, fired right up, tuned right in, took 15 seconds
New subscriber, im a timber cutter in Indiana i average $1500 a week. I've always been curious what timber cutters make out west If you don't mind me asking.
Day wage begins anywhere for the inexperienced and goes up to around 125 an hour for some top hands and contractors.
Top hand and journeyman employees tend to make from 40 to 55 an hour.
Really depends on where you go on the west coast. The same as I consider myself a top hand here, but I'm not worth a top hands wage in Indiana harddwoods, the same applies here.
Not alot of hand felling left in Idaho. Even the towers are using tethered bunchers. Your making about the normal rate here for 6 to 8 hrs a day felling, unless you have your own insurance/buisness. I dont know anyone making $125 a hour as a employee on a logging job, and I've been doing it for 30+ years. You better get alot of wood down for that kind of money, it ain't worth that much. It still has to be skidded bucked and hauled for a rate of $200+/- a thousand, or 25+/- a ton. worked 14 years for 1 company as their processor operator and made about what you do.
I feel like the 661 got the least amount of loved compared to the new release saws over the last few years, 500i, 881, 400c.. I see so many lightly used 661 in my area for sale compared to any other model. There has to be a reason.
They just suck so bad. But stihl knows they got us by the short hairs. What else do we do? Run a Makita?
First I am a stihl guy mostly but I have echoes love them but thay don't really have a 80cc saw but Husqvarna has did me well not sure why you don't like auto tune when the 661 has their version but if a 500i won't work for you I think Husqvarna will surprise you on how smooth and well thay run and with bar adapters you can use up your stihls bars .
Uncle Phil is my favorite uncle.
The new husky 585 is actually carb saw. Still expensive saws but.....
Very true. I’m a climber in the UK and can confirm the new stihl top handle saws are also garbage
thank you for expressing yourself and deliverying this information in this manner, timeframe, and platform. I operate a 661 on average about once every 14 working days and have a smaller saw in my hands every other working day. It seems to be the same across the product line with Stihl where I am constantly fooling with knick knack dumb shit that should not need replacing under acceptable work practices and conditons but I put up with it because of the way the carburated non M-tronic machines perform consistently in varying conditions and environments. Spot on assesment of those GD caps. I do nail polish all my stihl saws Hi Viz green though, in protest of their BS as well as I cant stand orange as a result of being incarcerated for crimes of passion. thanks for being a jewel instead of turd, Bro. The world needs more jewels less turds. For saws & people.
Newest stihl saw I own is an 044. Husky has had them beat on reliability since the 372/ 390.
Amen! Stihl went downhill with m tronic and spring mounts. My nephew, and dad both have m tronic garbage that is constantly problematic
I just got through watching pt#2 and I got to wondering about part #1. We’ll, here goes nothing.😊
Sad, i sold a new in box 660 couple monts ago. Would vave shipped it to you if i knew.
Ahh the whole world can't wait up on on3 crybaby out here hahaha
They still sell 395s; not sure where y'all are from, but out here you can still get them all day
Man I haven't been able to find them last two times I looked. They had zero 395s and zero 390s as soon as they announced discontinuation.
We are on the West coast
Are you open to ordering from the east coast? I live in Axton, VA and have a buddy that owns and runs a logging supply company; he ordered me one for work. I like the idea of the auto tunes, just for the ability to cut in any area and conditions without having to worry about manual adjustments for different areas; only downside I've dealt with using them the past 6 years is that when the computer says it's hr meter has hit its service time the saw goes into limp mode.
Bailey's online still has stock of 395 XPs, 3120 XPs, 390XPs.....
@@timberfallingcouplemadsens supply in centralia, Wa
@@timberfallingcoupleWe have 395xp's at my local shop here in NY.
HL supply in florida has brand new 395xp for 20% off - $1100 hope that helps ya out uncle Phil 😂. F that 661 knot see garbage 🗑
Why don’t you use autotune? I know the early models sucked, but from my experience the newer models both stihl and Husqvarna are good saws. I just bought a 362 last year and was given the option of m-tronic or traditional. I bought the traditional carb and after running other m-tronic saws I think I would’ve been very happy with an m-tronic version.
I have one of those old sthils, 038 farmboss. It's an animal
Madsens still has a pallet full of 390 and 395s…they ordered a bunch when husky made the announcement they were discontinuing them
That's interesting. I've been in there a few times and to my memory they were occasionally out of them. I betadsens sells a pallet of saws in 6 months or less, but I could be wrong.
@@timberfallingcouple I spoke to them this past Friday and one of the guys said they still have a bunch. $1230 for the 390 and a little more for the 395. I wonder if husky will end up extending the production life of those saws like they did with the 372 when everybody made an uproar about how much the 572 sucked
I didn’t like the idea of auto tune but let me tell you it’s been great. Easy on fuel and you don’t have to worry about one of your guys burning it up. The saws do sound/feel lean but there holding up well for me.
@unclecai271 it's hard because I heard the same exact thing about Mtronic and about the 500i and they're junk man.
The old 066 was still a tin can compared to a husky 288 or 394. Was a constant thing buying front handles that broke at the side mount and hand guards that melted above the muffler. I had the last straw with Stihl in 98 when I bought 2 new saws same day and neither of them lasted a year. Bought a stock 385 from local dealer, fell in love, bought a second one from Madsen that lasted 7 years. Bob Madsen would personally blue print them still at that time for $80. I got 2 more before he retired. I'm still running 390's and a 395 on occasions. My buddy is on his second 595 and I'm not impressed. I will say that the one's I've seen and heard from they guys that have ported them run out much much better.
I dont know how to explain it. But these polymer flywheel late 066 and 660s are not the same critter as the 066
@@timberfallingcouple at the rate it's going, I'm going to restore the 056 and 076 I have stored upstairs and start using them again. Might be slower but at least they make the right sound!!
Still have 5 Stihl chainsaws from the late nineties 046, and 066 all have thousands of hours. One 046 is worn through the starter cover from leg rub, still has the original cylinder and piston. All run great, and seem to be more reliable than m tronic garbage. They lost me when they started putting spring mounts in em like husky. Nothing worse than half your saw flopping around on springs.
394 was my favourite all time saw. but been probably 15 years since I was logging.I had an 044 that lasted forever, but wore out several 064s and 066.Toughest saw I ran was a Husky 2101, but they were pretty heavy!
I'm old enough to have seen this happen many times before. A company with a good reputation and good product line gets taken over by MBA bean counters and they destroy everything with their cost-cutting measures.
Get yourself a husqvarna 372 or 585, great saws got bith from monster work saws in Oley pa
i appreciate that, but i dont run hopped up saws anymore. i run sharp chains and safer cleaner work to avoid the hot rod shop anymore.
Sounds like you need to start buying up old Stihl saws and have them refurbished or refurbish them yourself. I personally like older McCulloch 650-750 Pro Mac saws, easy to work on, parts are cheap and they absolutely rip👍🏻
I did that for a long time before the fire down there in California. Had bad luck with unscrupulous sellers. Selling saws with stripped threads and egg shap3d crank case bearing bores. It just isn't worth it.
They still make the 660 in other countries. I got a guy that ships them to me. You have to swap the muffler,No screens in them. It has a small clutch cover and half wrap bar. Both need swapped. It’s about $500 more probably than a new 661. But lasts!!
that is a really good guy to know!!
My old 066 is still kicking ass,my old 038 magnum 2 is still kicking ass,my old ms 200T is still kicking ass😁. The new saws are too expensive😢
I know of a few new ms660R's. Guy hords a few dozen of them for stormy times
I could use a pair of them but I know I'd be paying so much money
@@timberfallingcouple yea I bought one last year and paid 1800 for it, then sold it for 800 2 months later because I was broke Arggggg
@funkysawmanwright5077 I'm sorry to hear that. I really try to not sell my important stuff but I've been there just needing some pennies to rub together.
The new Stihl powersaws are lightweight designed. Thinner materials and more plastic, that's why they are not durable. Husqvarna changed the philosophie and built heavier more reliable mashines.
Might be that the new saws are made from Chinesium and not Magnesium, I wouldn't put it past Stihl to save some manufacturing costs.
You can still buy 395s that are made in Brazil.
I've got 2 and they just like Swedish 395s.
where do you find them at? i was buying 395s from the regular shop that had a handful of brazilian and finnish parts in them
ive got a mate who is from brazil so he can organize sending them.
sounds like you need to book a holiday haha@@timberfallingcouple
@@timberfallingcouplebaileys has 390’s and 395’s in stock
The pollution regulations are ruinning 99% of all new engines because they have to run them extremely lean to pass those regulations!
I always run my saws a bit richer than factory but with new sensored saws(Stihl) there is a work around!
That’s why I run 390s
Last time I was in the market for saws there wasn't a single one in the shelf
@@timberfallingcouple madsens had one last time I was there. I’m definitely buying another before the year is over
Sure everything new is crap , the trucks , the cars , the semi trucks , the heavy equipment it’s all made cheaper, lighter , and less adherence to pride and quality - I’ve been a heavy diesel mechanic for over 20 years and I can tell you the new semis , heavy equipment , diesel pickups ain’t gonna stand the text of time like the old stuff - it’s the world we live in and what we the people let happen to us with a throw away consumer society … so being said maintenance maintenance maintenance - it’s the name of the game I’ve spent my career wrenching for fleets and owner operators it’s
The same complaint every where - disappointing to say the least … maintenance now involves changing parts and doing repairs that older equipment just didn’t experience . I run saws have old one and new ones -my 462 is a hard start sometimes I want to throw the thing - grab up my old 066 she’s running every time 2nd pull - he’ll I got homlites from the 60 that start better than that damn 462 - stupid
Unfortunately the way the world is now
It is very unfortunate now we pay more hours of labor for each new thing we purchase, and get nickel and died more than ever in maintenance parts to boot. Makes me hurt all the way from my wallet to my balls
Be an awesome comparison if you bought a clone saw and did a couple lil oem upgrades to it n see how long you get out of it 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️for 1/4 of the price , it’s crazy how much a good “pro” saw goes for and still has a bunch of problems 🤦🏼♂️ do it for science 👌🏻🤘🏼🤘🏼
I'd be willing to do it, but I'm not willing to buy the clone.
Husqvarna still makes the 390 xp And They brought back 372xp to
Go and get a 592XP. You’ll never look back at Stihl models. That saw is just a go to for large timber. Is tough, powerful and reliable, just what a chainsaw should be.
Just from talking to the boys here I'm really leaning towards a 585 with a 592 cylinder swap or else one if those Brazilian 660s or 395s
@@timberfallingcouple It sound cool! You look for this swap to avoid the AutoTune I suppose. The 585 model is really really tough and with a 592 engine should be a monster!
P.S. I own a 572 with AutoTune and for a man who isn’t very skilled with carb tuning, like I am, is an added value. Just my opinion.
The husqvarna 585 is a carburetor and you can cylinder swap the 592 cylinder in or do the 592 and carb swap it. I agree stihl has really dropped the ball on there structural on the chassis I just got a 572xp lowered the cylinder and ported the transfers about as far as yiu can take them and it has run perfectly compared to my ported 660 and 460 the 461's never impressed me same with the 661. Auto tune is kinda annoying but it's far better than m- tronic set it up in the morning and it's no bs all day. Not trying to sell you but the filtration is better is smoother and to be honest I should have been running one sooner
585 is a beast of a saw, been running a ported one for awhile and love it. I prefer an older style saw without the auto tune
Exactly but the fan boys won't have it, especially the young ones it's like there programmed to love plastic shit 🤣
A run a 565 currently and absolutely love it never had a problem with the auto tune, it's got more than enough clout for been in the woods all day, paired with a 24inch bar it's a unit!
Obvs I'd rather not have autotune just incase it does go wrong when at work
That's onenof my problems with husqvarna of old was the filtration.
They have this port by the flywheel that blows lightning speed dirt right into the air box. Factory filters literally plugged and the saw acting like a dog by 2 hours into the day. Had to switch to these weak titles plastic stoeckel stacks and run green weenies and clog that flywheel hole and the air box clips with sillycone just a huge pain in the ass to make them work
@@timberfallingcouple yeah I never understood there methods with filtration on the older units, have 100% sorted that now.
Watching a 572xp vs a 500i and even tho the 500 had 10cc more and all the bells and whistles it was like 0.2 quicker than a 572xp.
I don't know what stihl are doing lately. But I know I'd rather take a husky into the woods it's a better sidekick these days
@davt8615 that's good to hear, I meant also to mention that opposite to the 390xp, the 395 just sucked dirt past the filter. Had a ring of dust on the intake horn every day.
Oh lorty. Here we go.
Man, you're doing something wrong. I don't know what it is, but try that with any manufacturer and you'll have the same results.
I've never seen a case bend like that without some serious abuse. And for what it's worth, magnesium can be welded...
I dropped a 372 off of a pickup bed and the gas tank broke, ripping the anti-vibe mounts out of the case, with only the cylinder mount holding the saw together.... And, I've dropped a 372 out of a bucket truck and it ping-ponged down a very rocky slope. Only broke the plastics. Any perfect hit, in the exact right spot, can break anything.
Regardless... What is your issue with electronic carburation? The kinks are pretty much worked out at this point with some units performing flawlessly past 3,000 hours.
every 500i unit i have ever touched ran lean starved for fuel and ran white hot screens. every 661 ive ever touched mtronics bounced of the limiter and ran very very lean.
carbureted saws are what I need. b3fore my house burned down, i had flat top 066s, an 084, several 390s and 395s, that had either ran perfectly [some for over 20 years] or had rattled mostly apart after seasons and seasons of abuse. 661, one full season. its just with the amount of hours i put on a saw ive got a good radar for junk. id run a fuckin poulan before i get sold electronic tuning again
@@timberfallingcouple
What? Running lean by what standards? Your feel?
Then maybe you're running your saws too rich. The "jets" are calibrated and constantly adjusted 60 times a second.
I have never seen any documented evidence that a new 500i ran lean.... Even with an established small vacuum leak, it still compensates enough to save the top end.
All mileage varies, and all experiences are different.
Perhaps that's why you have a truck load of 90cc saws... Which is AWESOME!!... and odd for a small private business.
Look... It's complicatedly simple. Lol.
Basic two-stroke theory states that more air makes more power... It's essentially a hydraulic pump.
Because more air can atomize more fuel, which makes more power/rpm, the leaner the better. The key being; to balance as much air to fuel as possible, while still providing adequate lubrication. Hence why the m-tronic/auto-tune utilizes what could be considered as a measured air leak, to boost rpm and chainspeed under load.
The only m-tronic/auto-tune saws, I've ever even heard of, running too lean is from major vacuum leaks, especially in the weak modular sealed crank bearings used in husky's 550/562/572/592
They are total trash.
But the auto-tune is phenomenal. A bit convoluted when compared to the simplicity of the Stihl, but still exceedingly efficient.
Years of R&D in wood, run by professionals that get paid for every foot of timber they fell.... Not ONE has ever said that the 500i is too lean. In fact, some claim that it runs richer than they expected.
Swallow your pride and give a 500i an honest chance.
They sell out before they can be manufactured for a reason. Every logging, timber, and arborist company raves about them for a reason.
But it's not 90cc.... Understand that.
@@Matt-416I build saws and my 2c … while the autotune and mtronic will give you a “spot-on” tune that is superior to a guy adj with an orange screwdriver the engine design is radically different than the old school saws that were mentioned (066,660,385,390,395) in this video - an extra set of ports work with the relief cut into the piston and dual air ducts cast into the cylinder to introduce RAW ambient temp AIR into the cylinder to “hold” the upcoming charge in the transfers for a infinitesimal amount of time. This in theory allows the exhaust to fully exit before the fresh charge is shoved into the firing chamber. They absolutely 100% DO run leaner as opposed to an older saw with just one intake and an adjustable carb - THATS how them claim 75% less emission using 20% less fuel on these new version 661,592 - the only thing you can do for longevity is to open em up - it’s one thing if you’re cutting cookies in the backyard quite another when using saw 6hrs/day. Looooooong cuts on a hot day hour after hour really TEST and TAX a saw!
Garbage 🗑… ain’t worth for that kinda $$$. Pistons grenading - junk imho! Better off with the 066 or 660 or a 2100 or 395 if ya need a long bar saw … the engineers at Stuttgart dropped the ball on that 661 - I would NOT build one for myself let alone a customer, just couldn’t do it in good conscience 😢
i completely agree. havent had any cylinder piston problems, but lots of stripped bolts in the magnesium and aluminum [muffler bolts] and lots of carb and mtronic issues. those zama carbs on the carbed 661s are junk man
ECHO!
Maybe convert to farmertec haha jk
I went down the hutzl road many years ago. They go until they don't. Haha
@@timberfallingcouple to be honest I was kinda impressed with the 200t clone
@jeffschroeder9089 well the 660 clone I had n33d3d at least 400 dollars of stihl parts to make it a serviceable weapon and did not make it to the 300 hour service mark. Which is about 2 months of use. The hutzl made it about 150 hours of abuse and then scattered the transfer ports and the corners off the piston and busted the rod at the wrist pin, presumably when those chunks nailed the piston at the corner of the exhaust port.
@@timberfallingcouplei feel like there’s been some improvements. They have “pro” saws with better jugs and pistons in them. Might look into it. Not bad for us weekend warriors. I
Yeah Farmertec made improvements with the latest ones.
This dude drops his saws out of a tree and says modern saws are junk... how about take care of your shit.... just looking at those saws before you said anything I knew those saws were treated like shit.
drops his saw out of a tree. My machines get used. they dont get washed and they dont get fingernail polish. all of them used the same. some last. 661s dont.