I’ve always thought Hypno-Shroom was extremely underrated; PVZ Wiki have always had a bias against him and I think as a result people read the ‘Strategies’ section and just wrote it off as a result. He’s an instant kill that takes out another zombie for you, and on PVZ2 he has a very strong Plant Food and works against several very tough enemies like Newspapers
Hypno Shroom is just very niche imo. Is too expensive to use in the Early game and too irelevant to use in the mid-late game. Hipnosis is very powerful, but there are plants Who does a better job , such as Couli-Power or Zoybean to a much lesser extend(not hipnosis, but also but Zombies to your side)
What I've learnt is that despite being a bit "corny", gimmicks does undoubtably breeds uniqueness and perfectly strays from the usual and sometimes bland "sun, damage and wall" gameplay
I think plant combos are probably the most basic strategy that goes under everybody's radar. Sure, sometimes one damaging plant is enough to win a level, but there may be some points where the zombie density really demands for more from the player. As you said, Citron requires high hp targets to be alone to do anything. As for lightning Reed, it is very much countered by any high hp threats, but does significant work against weaker swarms. But when you combine the 2 plants together, they synergize very well and thus, having a very strong defense. Sometimes, having even 1 plant that counters a plants main weakness is all is needed to make a plant work.
Thats a total of 475 sun. 25 more and you get winter melon which only requires one slot and takes less space in the lawn. Plants that need synergies are obviously weaker than plants that you can just spam in game
@@justanordinaryguy6568 true, but you can still do synergies with winter melon as well. For example, the slowness of winter melon can put the zombies into rotobaga's range for longer and ensures that those same rotobagas survive. Or use spikeweed to make the chill splash more offensive. Or go for heavy stall by including sap fling or, probably more idealy, chard guard. So yeah. Even with easily spammable plants, they still can have synergies with other plants. But I do understand if if you view pvz in a different light. This is just how I see it.
@@justanordinaryguy6568yeah but comparing anything in vanilla to winter melon is like talking about cool guns and someone breaks in like "OR YOU COULD JUST USE A GRENADE" like... yeah Winter melon is op as fuck and has almost 0 downsides You should almost ALWAYS be using winter melon By that logic Why use any plant when you can just place 2 rows of Pokra and solo INFINITE gargantuars Just because something is more broken doesn't mean something ELSE is bad
The way you described gimmicky plants at the end really reminds me of the distinction between player types used by the designers of Magic: The Gathering. In PvZ2, gimmicky plants like Hypno-shroom would be intended for "Johnny" players, who play to express themselves and delight in finding unique strategies that work.
I remember when I was 8 playing pvz1 I had no idea of any metas or anything. So I ran hypno shroom as soon as I got him. I found very quickly he was best for killing high health targets and helping clear lanes and because I only used fume, puff, and scardey shroom, I essentially had to use him to handle anything higher than a cone head until I unlocked doom shroom. And even then the crater made me prefer hypno anyways. I tried to use every plant right after I unlocked them (even garlic and marigold for some reason) and even now I find it much more fun than basting through with the threepeater melonpult meta.
@@TheMistermastermario yes but potato mine is just better. cheaper, with splash so you can take out multiple zombies reliably rather than maaybe taking that one conehead out as well in some cases
@@StingRai08 the splash is still 1x1 and in my child head the arm time was too long to make it worth it especially during night levels where the biggest threats are disco and football, both of who get a lot of mileage being hypno'd due to the summoning mechanic and high health respectively
@@inkyjonin5341 fair. i just don't like hypno because your defense hits the zombie a good bit, so you already lose a lot of value just from playing the game right.
@@StingRai08 fair enough. But in pvz1, the game is balanced around the lowest level players. You can beat the game without plants like blover and hypno but the average player might find them better because they solve a problem instantly and cost less than say 6 cacti and 2 planterns or 10 repeaters. Especially on that first playthrough where you don't have the high damage of cob cannon or melon. And proper sun production is a mystery to you
I think it's a matter of personal taste. Some people have more fun challenging themselves and learning the ins and outs of the game, while others prefer to feel powerful and win in the most efficient way. Neither way of playing is more or less valid than the other. But it will affect which plants you prefer.
- Conditional gimmicks required to achieve full potential (when non-gimmicky plants get the job done anyways, why bother?) - low raw stats (probably because they usually want to be conservative with gimmicks) - level design (there's no guarantee the gimmick will ever even be useful) It might be nice for a followup video to explore what makes gimmicky plants good (for the game) and what could be done to make gimmicky plants good. Forcing you to think outside the box from The Meta and formulate new/unusual strategies is basically the point of a gimmick, both on zombies and on plants. Maybe, since sporeshroom is often killing things way away from it, an additional effect might help- explosion on death, knockback on growth, even just higher stats or increased HP might help. Technically a lot of plants are gimmicks, they're just so generally useful that it doesnt seem like it. Instants? Trading a plant for zero longterm benefit is a gimmick. Bonk Choy? Melee range plant with muxh less durability than an actual wall, that's a gimmick. Counter-gimmicks like fire plants negating Ice Ages? That's a gimmick. Sun Shroom being a weaker sunflower at the start and stronger in the endgame? Also a gimmick.
I don't like that logic. You can say that gimmicky plants are bad because you can just use simpler plants with higher raw stats, but you can also use plants like Pokra to solo every level making normal and basic plants like repeeater useless. Saying that gimmick plants are bad just because better and simpler plants exist is just ignorant, simple plants are simple and complex plants are complex, some gimmicky plants may depend on certain zombies to work, but before every level starts you can see what zombies will appear so I don't see how is that a problem. There's always a stronger plant than the previous one, gimmicky or not
Gimmicky plants don't have to be bad. In fact, nearly any plant can be made wildly OP by fiddling with the numbers enough, with a few very rare exceptions like Intensive Carrot and Hot Potato. Gimmicky plants are tricky to balance properly, though, because of their unusual effects that are hard to compare to other plants. Sometimes they're stronger than the devs intended, sometimes their weaker. In the case of PopCap/EA with plant design, they usually err on the side of making gimmicky plants too weak rather than risk making them too strong, which is why it can feel to the player like gimmick plants are inherently weak.
Hell, i think you can even make carrot OP if you try hard enough. For example, if when he revives a plant, the plant gets a huge buff to everything (damage, HP, the revived plant's own effects (ie extending the effect's AoE and duration)) as well as buff every plant in a 3 by 3 square around them, while reducing his cost to 0 and recharge to 5 seconds. And there you have it ; a debatably OP support plant.
I'm thinking about how Hypno-Shroom is a bit weak for the cost, considering Chili Bean, and Squash exist. Those two have alternate, easier to use abilities for a cheaper cost. They should have had Hypno-Shroom be 50 sun, not 75, or 125 in PvZ2. It doesn't help that there are more enemies that don't eat plants than in PVZ1.
@@Chronically_Boredwhat if hot potato could explode and kill everything and instant win a level? i mean we could go all day how about you grow up to be able to form adult opinions
I honestly forgot Hypno Shroom was added with Dark Ages' release... I thought it was a newer plant when I first saw this video. It's just, so niche? In PvZ1 it has some funny use-cases (Disco Zombie) but it's pretty useless in PvZ2, especially due to being a premium plant On a different note though, I do think Spore-Shroom is unironically a *decent* plant? Maybe not good, but definitely not horrible, I think it's pretty fun to use, and it can rack up pretty easily and essentially work as extra, free defences whenever it kills a zombie
I agree, Spore Shroom is definitely better than I think most people realize, even if it's still way weaker than the meta-defining plants. The playerbase sees it as a "you plant one, then get a bunch of free ones, but those free ones die too quickly so it's bad". But what it's actually meant to do is a bit closer to something like Primal Peashooter, a staller-DPS hybrid. You plant a bunch of them in the backline, and then they start generating free copies up front that do deal SOME damage, but their main use is to slow down zombies by just throwing never-ending plants in their way they need to stop to eat. Or at least that's what the design would suggest to me. I think the intention of it was to be a "combo" with the Punk zombies, as they'd just kick the new spore shrooms right into your backline to keep them safer. But outside of that one extremely specific interaction, It's HP is so low, the same as any other generic attacking plant, that it can't stall the zombies for very long in practice, and even when leveling it with seed packets, it gains less HP than other plants. I really wish it would be given some higher HP, and maybe a slower but stronger attack. That way it's more likely to finish off already weakened zombies, spawn a copy, and then use the higher HP to slow down zombies more.
One place where hypno shroom shines in is the pvz console PVP Because of the switch in objective, and the different balancing plants have, it makes the hypno shroom very viable (Of course not many people play vs mode or have even heard about it, but still)
In some insane mods with lots of bs zombies (like most pvz 1 mods, lmao) hypno shroom is surprisingly usefull. When you are dealing with zombies that still eat plants, but have gargantuar level health (or mode, sometimes way more) it allows you to clean entire lanes in mods were not even instas can.
Admittedly, when I use hypnoshroom in pvz 1, it's usually against disco zombie who, if I'm remembering correctly (at least on mobile) the disco would still summon back-up dancers but under your control (if I'm remembering right. been a while)
As soon as I get hooked on ror and pvz, you include gameplay of both. Massive coincidence (you have run into more scrappers in one level than I have ever playing risk of rain 2)
I always find Hypno-shroom very useful in PvZ2: Reflourished, since I started trying to beat every Holiday Mashup levels with only PvZ1 plants, they're really good if you fed them to the right zombie, and also since I can't use Power Lily, I really have a limited selection of instas, heck, even Hypno is better than Squash in some cases. That's why if you use it right, you'll definitely get why it's underrated. It's like how Starfruit is for PvZ1. That might be a terrible analogy but that's the best way I can put it.
even though it may comes from me playing pvz for like 3 hours, i feel like plants lack synergies, yeah you have the shield, producer and attack but they never interact with each other, even with gimmicky plants
"Foolishness, creeps. Foolishness. good plants controls everything. And without good plants you can not protect anything. Let alone yourself." -vergil about PVZ
btw congrats on beating that one Garg spam level Creeps^^ I didn't get a chance to say in stream ;-; Edit: welp, that ending hit hard, definitely agree that gimmicks (in any video game in general) don't have to be absurdly strong or optimal, they can exist as simply alternative options that shake up the core gameplay because playing with the same set-up over and over again tends to feel unexciting in a certain point in time (personally), anyways, banger video as always^^
It’s like any card game ever. You can put whatever you want card in your deck (aside from banlist cards) and you just get to play around with what you like
This reminds me of gratz video where he says using giant skeleton is not good unless you know how to use it and if you did you were respected by the others
The worst part of hypnoshroom in PvZ 1 is that most of the strongest zombies don't eat and therefore can't be hypnotized, and most of the gimmick zombies have to be broken out of their gimmick before being hypnotized and are weak without their gimmick.
I've never noticed that red stinger was supposed to be a half-wall,I only use him as a cheaper repeater with the downside of needing to be planted in the back.
7:21 And that's why I'm buffing Aloe in PvZ Danmaku so it has plants in a 3x3 area around itself slowly regenerate HP, and the ability to manually heal every plant in that area for 1/4 Wall-nut HP with a 20-second cooldown (during which time a single zombie can deal damage equal to 1 Wall-nut HP, but let's not worry about that. Aloe has AoE healing now, and you only need 2 to heal a column of Walls)
The problem with Hypno-shroom is that it can hypnotize only one zombie, why is why Hypno-shroom is not efficient if there are too many zombies. If there was a plant that can hypnotize more than one zombie, it would really be cool.
In AltverZ Pyramid of Doom Hypno is quite good for early game, taking out Bucketheads and Pharaohs. Not only do they shred through basic zombies, but they also eat gravestones!
When i unlocked spore shroom it was the main thing i used for quite a while. Even by itself its good for a 150 sun plant and it just keeps on replicating, those IFs dont hinder it at all. It WILL replicate quite easily and overall provides a lot extra dps. I considered it op.
I think hypno shroom us preety good, actually. He can instakill any zombie you want (besides gargs/bosses) and stalls a few zombies with the zombie he just hypnotized. His plant food pretty much garuntees yours safety for an entire lane
In most games gimmicky things are bad. Except for the Eeleckros line in Pokemon, but it's less gimmicky and more doesn't take super-efecrive damage from standard macanics.
I’ve always loved Hypno-shroom for night levels in PVZ1, use it on disco zombies since their ability to form backup dancers can take out some easy zombies
This is why i tend to force myself with unique strategies that elimates attacking/stalling plants i used most of the time. it creates a challenge and creates a sort of trial and error experiment
It makes me sad that Magnet Shroom's gimmick is so underused compared to PvZ 1. In that game, it could disable the gimmick of a zombie, making it quite good at neutralizing what would otherwise be a particularly problematic zombie (Ladder, Pogo, etc.). In PvZ 2 it's only effects are removing armor and killing Punk Zombies (and I guess stunning the Zombot Dragon but that's one level). Which can also be done by just dealing a lot of damage, and dealing a lot of damage also helps you eliminate other zombies too, so Magnet Shroom serves no purpose. Imagine if it actually worked on the thing that granted a zombie its gimmick. It would be a godsend in Neon Mixtape, dealing with Boombox, MC-ZomB, and Punk. It could counter Excavators (and maybe Parasols?) in Lost City. Quite a few Penny's Pursuit zombies would also be vulnerable. If you wanted to take this to the extreme, you could even have it screw with Far Future robots in some way, since mechanical things tend to not deal with magnets very well. Why is this not how it works? Make Magnet Shroom actually useful god damn it
Imagine if hypno-shroom has an attack ability similar to fumeshroom with a 25% chance of hypnotizing zombies, whilst also hyptonizes any zombies that eats them.
I really like using Spore-shroom in Vanilla, just because it's both satisfying to get a huge amount of Spore-shrooms throughout a level, but then their family mint is super OP and just buffs Spore-Shrooms on top of that, making the Spore-Shrooms spore more shrooms
@levichicwown9760 I mean the busted mint poisoning everything on screen helps with those but other then that it's more a for fun kind of deal. Sorry if that came out rude wasn't trying to be
I feel like it boils down to 2 things, how supportable they are, like how much value they gain from other plants around it, like a shield, slow or even the obliteration of a wave. And how much support they can provide. Base value×supporting value=raw strenght. So if a plant by itself is at its maximum potential, or has limited supporting then its niche but not bad, but still it leaves the rest of your greenery weaker
Gimmicks suck not inherently but because they don't have any targets, like magnet shroom is good in pvz1 because it has targets but in pvz2 it sucks due to a lack fo targets Think about it, how many zombies eat that you would want hypnotized, not many, in pvz1 its just football, and in pvz2 it is useful with plant food but otherwise it has no big target
At the end of the day, no matter how well made is the video, no matter how good are the arguments, the best moments of the vid will always be the ones with hollow knight OSTs
Fellow ror2 player, may I recommend using artifacts? The one that makes enemies drop items is very good, and the other that allows you to choose your item is op. Btw for engineer try spamming bustling fungus.
I feel like Spore Shroom would be way better if it could have some status element that can absolutely guarantee a zombie turning into it even if its not the plant to kill said zombie. It'd probably still be not very useful but at least it can make actual use in its gimmick as opposed to essentially being useless
Hypnotizing an enemy is inherently strong, but hypno shroom is kinda self contradictory for where it wants to be placed, and it also cant get the target it most desperately wants to, the gargantuar.
Gimmicky plants aside, I'd kill to see a stream of you playing Risk of Rain 2, or even a video about the game. It has a lotnof tech and strategy you could go on for hours and hours talking about.
In PVZ1 Expansion Mod, Hypno Shroom is really good against Giga Football Zombies since they are the only plant that can kill them instantly and make them fight for you as an unstoppable force.
I 100% support the thinking of steering away from "The Meta" and try out new things as many as possible, cause you'll never if you don't ........ I call that "Trial and Error" or more excitingly: "Discovery" :))) Also Hypnotize an angry Newspaper is breathtakingly satisfying, especially in Arena ^_^
They give you Spore Shrooms in the level Arcade zombies appear While the shrooms keep spamming on the tiles near Arcade Machine, Arcade Machine keeps pushing and crushing the new shrooms, make the shrooms useless
I don't think spore shroom is that bad sure it can be if you're trying to maximize the gimmick. but spore shroom doesn't rely on it too much as compared to plants like night shades or even lightning reed's multi-target. essentially spore shroom is kernal pult but it costs 50 more sun in exchange for the ability to potentially double damage (cause now there's two) and slow zombie approach (to eat it). the down side is sometimes it doesn't work like if a zombie is in between tiles, there's already a plant there/in water or on grave, or it isn't the last hit on the zombie before it dies. I honestly think it's not that bad the worst that can happen with it is it's damage under performs cause it can't duplicate. which kernal pult also suffers from low damage. but when it works it can single handedly take care of a lane. also the benefit of that it's good up close isn't for the one you plant for but for duplicates I would think, because they have a higher chance to kill the zombie first or at least replace themselves when they die. as far as I see it spore shroom is a slight less reliable higher cost kernal pult with a much better pay off when it works and is the same concept as blooming heart but done right.
You know Creeps? On the Chinese version of PvZ2, Aloe was buffed like hell. It heals on a set amount of time, heals 3x3 to every plant and also boosts damage, on level up it also chills zombies, ending up being a nearly permanent stall.
Compared to Potato Mine and Squash, it costs more and won’t do as well against groups. Still, it does have moments where it shines, it’s just situational.
Bro's saying that Aloe is a bad plant? If you don't let 300 zombies be on screen at once Aloe + Chard Guard is an amazing combo that allows you to have an inifite Chard Guard! Same with Aloe + Endurian. If the strategy doesn't work with you it's just your fault, you just need Aloe, Chard Guard or Endurian and piercing plant like Lazer Beam or Shadow Peashooter!
The intro was great. Random gameplay is always fun to watch. Also gimmicks are cool just sucks when gimmicks are there for the sake of gimmicks i.e just every arena plant. I have no idea what half of them do and like it makes new plants less interesting tbh.
Hypno Shroom's usefulness may be up for debate. But you cant deny that seeing a zombie turn back and attack it's peers is damn satisfying!
*peers
But yes it’s super satisfying and fun even if it’s not the best
I mean in arena it’s pretty useful against chicken and weasel waves
In pvz 1 especially if you used it on the Disco zombie
@@t-eehee7057and football
@@t-eehee7057 this makes me want Cleopatra zombie to come so I can have the feeling... But like I treat cats as gods WHICH WE DO
I’ve always thought Hypno-Shroom was extremely underrated; PVZ Wiki have always had a bias against him and I think as a result people read the ‘Strategies’ section and just wrote it off as a result. He’s an instant kill that takes out another zombie for you, and on PVZ2 he has a very strong Plant Food and works against several very tough enemies like Newspapers
Agreed, it’s so expensive because it does much more than chili bean. It not only insta kills, it stalls and does damage to all zombies in that lane.
Hypno shroom sucks deal with it
@@Roger-iu6rh 🐑
@@Roger-iu6rhthis is a certified TRUE✅️✅️✅️
Hypno Shroom is just very niche imo. Is too expensive to use in the Early game and too irelevant to use in the mid-late game. Hipnosis is very powerful, but there are plants Who does a better job , such as Couli-Power or Zoybean to a much lesser extend(not hipnosis, but also but Zombies to your side)
counterpoint hypnotizing the disco zombies and having a horde walk back towards the enemy was and is hilarious
Agreed
What I've learnt is that despite being a bit "corny", gimmicks does undoubtably breeds uniqueness and perfectly strays from the usual and sometimes bland "sun, damage and wall" gameplay
Yes
I think plant combos are probably the most basic strategy that goes under everybody's radar. Sure, sometimes one damaging plant is enough to win a level, but there may be some points where the zombie density really demands for more from the player. As you said, Citron requires high hp targets to be alone to do anything. As for lightning Reed, it is very much countered by any high hp threats, but does significant work against weaker swarms. But when you combine the 2 plants together, they synergize very well and thus, having a very strong defense.
Sometimes, having even 1 plant that counters a plants main weakness is all is needed to make a plant work.
not saying u r wrong but at that point u use 2 plant slots instead of one with barely any benefits.
Thats a total of 475 sun. 25 more and you get winter melon which only requires one slot and takes less space in the lawn. Plants that need synergies are obviously weaker than plants that you can just spam in game
@@justanordinaryguy6568 true, but you can still do synergies with winter melon as well. For example, the slowness of winter melon can put the zombies into rotobaga's range for longer and ensures that those same rotobagas survive. Or use spikeweed to make the chill splash more offensive. Or go for heavy stall by including sap fling or, probably more idealy, chard guard.
So yeah. Even with easily spammable plants, they still can have synergies with other plants. But I do understand if if you view pvz in a different light. This is just how I see it.
@@soulesspieceofcheese3093 pretty good point actually.
@@justanordinaryguy6568yeah but comparing anything in vanilla to winter melon is like talking about cool guns and someone breaks in like "OR YOU COULD JUST USE A GRENADE"
like... yeah
Winter melon is op as fuck and has almost 0 downsides
You should almost ALWAYS be using winter melon
By that logic
Why use any plant when you can just place 2 rows of Pokra and solo INFINITE gargantuars
Just because something is more broken doesn't mean something ELSE is bad
Although hypno-shroom may not be the strongest plant it is still really fun getting a zombie on your side, especially, a gargantuar.
You can only hypnotize a Gargantuar via Plant Food on Hypnoshroom
God, I LOVE the plant food effect of hypno shroom for the reasons you stated
@@furiouscorgi6614we know
The way you described gimmicky plants at the end really reminds me of the distinction between player types used by the designers of Magic: The Gathering. In PvZ2, gimmicky plants like Hypno-shroom would be intended for "Johnny" players, who play to express themselves and delight in finding unique strategies that work.
I actually read somewhere that Magic: The Gathering was the _inspiration_ behind PvZ
Haha funni saproling tribal
I remember when I was 8 playing pvz1 I had no idea of any metas or anything. So I ran hypno shroom as soon as I got him. I found very quickly he was best for killing high health targets and helping clear lanes and because I only used fume, puff, and scardey shroom, I essentially had to use him to handle anything higher than a cone head until I unlocked doom shroom. And even then the crater made me prefer hypno anyways. I tried to use every plant right after I unlocked them (even garlic and marigold for some reason) and even now I find it much more fun than basting through with the threepeater melonpult meta.
hypno shroom is given right when football zombie is introduced, so i think the intention is to use it on those
@@TheMistermastermario yes but potato mine is just better. cheaper, with splash so you can take out multiple zombies reliably rather than maaybe taking that one conehead out as well in some cases
@@StingRai08 the splash is still 1x1 and in my child head the arm time was too long to make it worth it especially during night levels where the biggest threats are disco and football, both of who get a lot of mileage being hypno'd due to the summoning mechanic and high health respectively
@@inkyjonin5341 fair. i just don't like hypno because your defense hits the zombie a good bit, so you already lose a lot of value just from playing the game right.
@@StingRai08 fair enough. But in pvz1, the game is balanced around the lowest level players. You can beat the game without plants like blover and hypno but the average player might find them better because they solve a problem instantly and cost less than say 6 cacti and 2 planterns or 10 repeaters. Especially on that first playthrough where you don't have the high damage of cob cannon or melon. And proper sun production is a mystery to you
I liked to bring it out in PvZ 1 rarely in night for specifically buckethead or disco.
If football showed up that early I’d have it on him too.
I think it's a matter of personal taste. Some people have more fun challenging themselves and learning the ins and outs of the game, while others prefer to feel powerful and win in the most efficient way.
Neither way of playing is more or less valid than the other. But it will affect which plants you prefer.
Gimmicky plants aren't bad, there just are better plants wich can be said about most plants since Mega Gattling and Pokra exist
the people who like to make games easier are wimps and little baby’s, you can not change my mind
“gimmicky plants suck!!”
Blover:
I mean this “if” applies to so many situations it’s almost not gimmicky
Strong plants.
Weak plants.
That is only the selfish perception of people.
Truly skilled gardeners should try to win with their favorites.
Damn who pissed off Socrates over here
- Conditional gimmicks required to achieve full potential (when non-gimmicky plants get the job done anyways, why bother?)
- low raw stats (probably because they usually want to be conservative with gimmicks)
- level design (there's no guarantee the gimmick will ever even be useful)
It might be nice for a followup video to explore what makes gimmicky plants good (for the game) and what could be done to make gimmicky plants good. Forcing you to think outside the box from The Meta and formulate new/unusual strategies is basically the point of a gimmick, both on zombies and on plants.
Maybe, since sporeshroom is often killing things way away from it, an additional effect might help- explosion on death, knockback on growth, even just higher stats or increased HP might help.
Technically a lot of plants are gimmicks, they're just so generally useful that it doesnt seem like it. Instants? Trading a plant for zero longterm benefit is a gimmick. Bonk Choy? Melee range plant with muxh less durability than an actual wall, that's a gimmick. Counter-gimmicks like fire plants negating Ice Ages? That's a gimmick. Sun Shroom being a weaker sunflower at the start and stronger in the endgame? Also a gimmick.
I don't like that logic. You can say that gimmicky plants are bad because you can just use simpler plants with higher raw stats, but you can also use plants like Pokra to solo every level making normal and basic plants like repeeater useless. Saying that gimmick plants are bad just because better and simpler plants exist is just ignorant, simple plants are simple and complex plants are complex, some gimmicky plants may depend on certain zombies to work, but before every level starts you can see what zombies will appear so I don't see how is that a problem. There's always a stronger plant than the previous one, gimmicky or not
Gimmicky plants don't have to be bad. In fact, nearly any plant can be made wildly OP by fiddling with the numbers enough, with a few very rare exceptions like Intensive Carrot and Hot Potato.
Gimmicky plants are tricky to balance properly, though, because of their unusual effects that are hard to compare to other plants. Sometimes they're stronger than the devs intended, sometimes their weaker. In the case of PopCap/EA with plant design, they usually err on the side of making gimmicky plants too weak rather than risk making them too strong, which is why it can feel to the player like gimmick plants are inherently weak.
Hell, i think you can even make carrot OP if you try hard enough. For example, if when he revives a plant, the plant gets a huge buff to everything (damage, HP, the revived plant's own effects (ie extending the effect's AoE and duration)) as well as buff every plant in a 3 by 3 square around them, while reducing his cost to 0 and recharge to 5 seconds. And there you have it ; a debatably OP support plant.
I'm thinking about how Hypno-Shroom is a bit weak for the cost, considering Chili Bean, and Squash exist. Those two have alternate, easier to use abilities for a cheaper cost. They should have had Hypno-Shroom be 50 sun, not 75, or 125 in PvZ2. It doesn't help that there are more enemies that don't eat plants than in PVZ1.
Intensive carrot could be made OP with just numbers. Zero sun cost and near-zero recharge and it's OP. Don't think that would fix Hot Potato though.
@@Chronically_Boredwhat if hot potato could explode and kill everything and instant win a level? i mean we could go all day how about you grow up to be able to form adult opinions
I honestly forgot Hypno Shroom was added with Dark Ages' release... I thought it was a newer plant when I first saw this video. It's just, so niche? In PvZ1 it has some funny use-cases (Disco Zombie) but it's pretty useless in PvZ2, especially due to being a premium plant
On a different note though, I do think Spore-Shroom is unironically a *decent* plant? Maybe not good, but definitely not horrible, I think it's pretty fun to use, and it can rack up pretty easily and essentially work as extra, free defences whenever it kills a zombie
In PvZ1 it was introduced as a counter to Football Zombies
@@FrostDirtstill a very good counter to Disco Zombie nonetheless, even had an achievement
@@Sp3ctralIits not like dancing zombie is hard at all why does it matter
I agree, Spore Shroom is definitely better than I think most people realize, even if it's still way weaker than the meta-defining plants. The playerbase sees it as a "you plant one, then get a bunch of free ones, but those free ones die too quickly so it's bad". But what it's actually meant to do is a bit closer to something like Primal Peashooter, a staller-DPS hybrid. You plant a bunch of them in the backline, and then they start generating free copies up front that do deal SOME damage, but their main use is to slow down zombies by just throwing never-ending plants in their way they need to stop to eat.
Or at least that's what the design would suggest to me. I think the intention of it was to be a "combo" with the Punk zombies, as they'd just kick the new spore shrooms right into your backline to keep them safer. But outside of that one extremely specific interaction, It's HP is so low, the same as any other generic attacking plant, that it can't stall the zombies for very long in practice, and even when leveling it with seed packets, it gains less HP than other plants.
I really wish it would be given some higher HP, and maybe a slower but stronger attack. That way it's more likely to finish off already weakened zombies, spawn a copy, and then use the higher HP to slow down zombies more.
@@TheOuchGuyfree hypno backups for stalling
One place where hypno shroom shines in is the pvz console PVP
Because of the switch in objective, and the different balancing plants have, it makes the hypno shroom very viable
(Of course not many people play vs mode or have even heard about it, but still)
In some insane mods with lots of bs zombies (like most pvz 1 mods, lmao) hypno shroom is surprisingly usefull.
When you are dealing with zombies that still eat plants, but have gargantuar level health (or mode, sometimes way more) it allows you to clean entire lanes in mods were not even instas can.
Something to watch while creeps is on break.Thanks creeps,very cool!
Admittedly, when I use hypnoshroom in pvz 1, it's usually against disco zombie who, if I'm remembering correctly (at least on mobile) the disco would still summon back-up dancers but under your control (if I'm remembering right. been a while)
Yep, that's right, the most optimal use of Hypno and very funny.
Yeah and they give you an achievement for doing that exact thing
football zombie is also introduced in Moongrains, which is the 2nd best hypno shroom target
As soon as I get hooked on ror and pvz, you include gameplay of both. Massive coincidence (you have run into more scrappers in one level than I have ever playing risk of rain 2)
a year later and i’m in this exact situation with this recommended video courtesy of the algorithm
I disagree with your opinion because Hypno shroom told me to say this
I always find Hypno-shroom very useful in PvZ2: Reflourished, since I started trying to beat every Holiday Mashup levels with only PvZ1 plants, they're really good if you fed them to the right zombie, and also since I can't use Power Lily, I really have a limited selection of instas, heck, even Hypno is better than Squash in some cases. That's why if you use it right, you'll definitely get why it's underrated. It's like how Starfruit is for PvZ1. That might be a terrible analogy but that's the best way I can put it.
even though it may comes from me playing pvz for like 3 hours, i feel like plants lack synergies, yeah you have the shield, producer and attack but they never interact with each other, even with gimmicky plants
True
vines surely
I think the only ones that do interact with each other is torchwood and Dandelion+blover
@@ednr6242 thanks for reminding me of these two, sad that only these two works
@@deemaske9143Lightning Reed and Maybee also have a special interaction
And of course Torchwood and peas
Since it doesn’t seem like most people picked up on it or haven’t said anything about it, I’m liking the changes to the editing style a ton!
I always love it when I find out that a TH-camr I've known for talking about one game that I know also plays another game that I know
I LOVE the fact that you used Insaniquarium Deluxe music! My absolute favorite game!
woah, 15 minutes of great content from a particularly cool youtuber while waiting for some youtubers stream!
"Foolishness, creeps. Foolishness. good plants controls everything. And without good plants you can not protect anything. Let alone yourself."
-vergil about PVZ
btw congrats on beating that one Garg spam level Creeps^^ I didn't get a chance to say in stream ;-;
Edit: welp, that ending hit hard, definitely agree that gimmicks (in any video game in general) don't have to be absurdly strong or optimal, they can exist as simply alternative options that shake up the core gameplay because playing with the same set-up over and over again tends to feel unexciting in a certain point in time (personally), anyways, banger video as always^^
Oh he beat it? I had to leave for work. Congrats on that level
Yes, they do suck, but I find myself using them more often because using conventional plants gets boring after a while.
It’s like any card game ever. You can put whatever you want card in your deck (aside from banlist cards) and you just get to play around with what you like
This reminds me of gratz video where he says using giant skeleton is not good unless you know how to use it and if you did you were respected by the others
1:23 I thought you were showing the excavator zombie in that magnet shroom clip.
Seriously let the magnet disarm it already.
the hollow knight music goes so hard 🔥🔥🔥🔥
He's pretty useful for football zombies in brutal mode ex+ (pvz1)
The worst part of hypnoshroom in PvZ 1 is that most of the strongest zombies don't eat and therefore can't be hypnotized, and most of the gimmick zombies have to be broken out of their gimmick before being hypnotized and are weak without their gimmick.
Poor Hypno Shroom, I love the little guy
what is the coincidence of me playing a video in the background as i play risk of rain 2 then auto play was on and then it moves on to THAT start
Was looking for a risk of rain comment, probably my favorite game.
I will not stand for this hypnoshroom slander
Edit: nevermind, you sort of redeemed yourself in the end
everything before 1:07 gives me major "well that just happened" vibes
I was waiting for a Bungus to show up in that intro and somehow segue into Hypnoshroom lmao
funnily enough in the next area i got 2 printers for that basically side by side my luck in that run was awful
@@Creeps20 we've all had runs like that. I can't even begin to describe the shit luck I had on my e8 climb for engi
Ah yes, my favorite pvz plant, the engineer from risk of rain 2
the most gimmick plant that people tend to ignore but is actually good, Meteor Flower.
Yay, a Witch Hazel mention! I am finally happy…
I've never noticed that red stinger was supposed to be a half-wall,I only use him as a cheaper repeater with the downside of needing to be planted in the back.
7:21 And that's why I'm buffing Aloe in PvZ Danmaku so it has plants in a 3x3 area around itself slowly regenerate HP, and the ability to manually heal every plant in that area for 1/4 Wall-nut HP with a 20-second cooldown (during which time a single zombie can deal damage equal to 1 Wall-nut HP, but let's not worry about that. Aloe has AoE healing now, and you only need 2 to heal a column of Walls)
The problem with Hypno-shroom is that it can hypnotize only one zombie, why is why Hypno-shroom is not efficient if there are too many zombies. If there was a plant that can hypnotize more than one zombie, it would really be cool.
In AltverZ Pyramid of Doom Hypno is quite good for early game, taking out Bucketheads and Pharaohs. Not only do they shred through basic zombies, but they also eat gravestones!
When i unlocked spore shroom it was the main thing i used for quite a while. Even by itself its good for a 150 sun plant and it just keeps on replicating, those IFs dont hinder it at all. It WILL replicate quite easily and overall provides a lot extra dps. I considered it op.
I think hypno shroom us preety good, actually. He can instakill any zombie you want (besides gargs/bosses) and stalls a few zombies with the zombie he just hypnotized. His plant food pretty much garuntees yours safety for an entire lane
In most games gimmicky things are bad. Except for the Eeleckros line in Pokemon, but it's less gimmicky and more doesn't take super-efecrive damage from standard macanics.
I’ve always loved Hypno-shroom for night levels in PVZ1, use it on disco zombies since their ability to form backup dancers can take out some easy zombies
Man the risk of rain 2 gameplay made me think I clicked on the wrong video for a couple seconds
Lmao same, took a double take to see if I was watching Woolie
2:00 ISANIQUARIUM MUSIC
This is why i tend to force myself with unique strategies that elimates attacking/stalling plants i used most of the time. it creates a challenge and creates a sort of trial and error experiment
It makes me sad that Magnet Shroom's gimmick is so underused compared to PvZ 1. In that game, it could disable the gimmick of a zombie, making it quite good at neutralizing what would otherwise be a particularly problematic zombie (Ladder, Pogo, etc.).
In PvZ 2 it's only effects are removing armor and killing Punk Zombies (and I guess stunning the Zombot Dragon but that's one level). Which can also be done by just dealing a lot of damage, and dealing a lot of damage also helps you eliminate other zombies too, so Magnet Shroom serves no purpose.
Imagine if it actually worked on the thing that granted a zombie its gimmick. It would be a godsend in Neon Mixtape, dealing with Boombox, MC-ZomB, and Punk. It could counter Excavators (and maybe Parasols?) in Lost City. Quite a few Penny's Pursuit zombies would also be vulnerable. If you wanted to take this to the extreme, you could even have it screw with Far Future robots in some way, since mechanical things tend to not deal with magnets very well. Why is this not how it works? Make Magnet Shroom actually useful god damn it
Imagine if hypno-shroom has an attack ability similar to fumeshroom with a 25% chance of hypnotizing zombies, whilst also hyptonizes any zombies that eats them.
cool youtuber Creeps20 with the new video :0
Starfruit in PvZ 1 is the quintessential gimmick plant. Very fun if you could get the ball rolling.
At the end of the day, games are meant to be fun and so as long as these gimmicky plants are fun then they have more than served their purpose.
noooo hypno shroom my beloved (one of my 2 favorite plants)
I really like using Spore-shroom in Vanilla, just because it's both satisfying to get a huge amount of Spore-shrooms throughout a level, but then their family mint is super OP and just buffs Spore-Shrooms on top of that, making the Spore-Shrooms spore more shrooms
@levichicwown9760 I mean the busted mint poisoning everything on screen helps with those but other then that it's more a for fun kind of deal.
Sorry if that came out rude wasn't trying to be
As bad as hypno shroom is I still love it cause it's just so fun to hypnotize disco zombies to summon friendly dancer zombies.
Not giving the equipment drone at the end the tricorn is a crime in and of itself
I feel like it boils down to 2 things, how supportable they are, like how much value they gain from other plants around it, like a shield, slow or even the obliteration of a wave. And how much support they can provide.
Base value×supporting value=raw strenght. So if a plant by itself is at its maximum potential, or has limited supporting then its niche but not bad, but still it leaves the rest of your greenery weaker
Gimmicks suck not inherently but because they don't have any targets, like magnet shroom is good in pvz1 because it has targets but in pvz2 it sucks due to a lack fo targets
Think about it, how many zombies eat that you would want hypnotized, not many, in pvz1 its just football, and in pvz2 it is useful with plant food but otherwise it has no big target
BRO HIT US WITH THE GREENPATH THEME AND THOUGHT WE WOULDNT NOTICE
At the end of the day, no matter how well made is the video, no matter how good are the arguments, the best moments of the vid will always be the ones with hollow knight OSTs
Fellow ror2 player, may I recommend using artifacts? The one that makes enemies drop items is very good, and the other that allows you to choose your item is op.
Btw for engineer try spamming bustling fungus.
@@applebess Let people play the game how they want to, its a single player game and not affecting you an any way.
Command, Swarm, and Sacrifice combo really well for a pretty easy run.
who the heck use bungus, just use wungus with walking turret for the funzies
@Kyee124 wungus doesn't affect the walking turrents last I checked
@@noxxity I aware but walking turret, why still use bungus
I thought I accidentally clicked a Disputed Origin video for a second. Also engineer after not getting a bungus:
we now have background footage for background footage. this is revolutionary
Creeps maining Engineer makes a lot of sense in hindsight
I feel like Spore Shroom would be way better if it could have some status element that can absolutely guarantee a zombie turning into it even if its not the plant to kill said zombie. It'd probably still be not very useful but at least it can make actual use in its gimmick as opposed to essentially being useless
Ok but why was the second part of the video so wholesome
Hypnotizing an enemy is inherently strong, but hypno shroom is kinda self contradictory for where it wants to be placed, and it also cant get the target it most desperately wants to, the gargantuar.
Gimmicky plants aside, I'd kill to see a stream of you playing Risk of Rain 2, or even a video about the game. It has a lotnof tech and strategy you could go on for hours and hours talking about.
Risk of rain 2 jumpscare
5:16 he can also instakill the punk kickers in neon mixtape
caulipower hiding in the corner being op as hell
i will say, magnet shroom is fairly good in the disco world, he pulls the heads off the damn rockers
In PVZ1 Expansion Mod, Hypno Shroom is really good against Giga Football Zombies since they are the only plant that can kill them instantly and make them fight for you as an unstoppable force.
I 100% support the thinking of steering away from "The Meta" and try out new things as many as possible, cause you'll never if you don't ........ I call that "Trial and Error" or more excitingly: "Discovery" :)))
Also Hypnotize an angry Newspaper is breathtakingly satisfying, especially in Arena ^_^
I really like garlic and spikeweed/rocks combo in pvz cuz it let's you plant marigolds at the other three lanes
They give you Spore Shrooms in the level Arcade zombies appear
While the shrooms keep spamming on the tiles near Arcade Machine, Arcade Machine keeps pushing and crushing the new shrooms, make the shrooms useless
this makes being awake at 1 am at the airport more bearable
I don't think spore shroom is that bad sure it can be if you're trying to maximize the gimmick. but spore shroom doesn't rely on it too much as compared to plants like night shades or even lightning reed's multi-target. essentially spore shroom is kernal pult but it costs 50 more sun in exchange for the ability to potentially double damage (cause now there's two) and slow zombie approach (to eat it). the down side is sometimes it doesn't work like if a zombie is in between tiles, there's already a plant there/in water or on grave, or it isn't the last hit on the zombie before it dies. I honestly think it's not that bad the worst that can happen with it is it's damage under performs cause it can't duplicate. which kernal pult also suffers from low damage. but when it works it can single handedly take care of a lane. also the benefit of that it's good up close isn't for the one you plant for but for duplicates I would think, because they have a higher chance to kill the zombie first or at least replace themselves when they die. as far as I see it spore shroom is a slight less reliable higher cost kernal pult with a much better pay off when it works and is the same concept as blooming heart but done right.
You know Creeps?
On the Chinese version of PvZ2, Aloe was buffed like hell. It heals on a set amount of time, heals 3x3 to every plant and also boosts damage, on level up it also chills zombies, ending up being a nearly permanent stall.
I was so confused why the video started with ROR2, I thought I was watching a race video wtf
Hypnoshroom is insanely op against tanky zombies so they wipe out the entire lane for u . I dont understand how it sucks exactly
Compared to Potato Mine and Squash, it costs more and won’t do as well against groups. Still, it does have moments where it shines, it’s just situational.
R I S K O F R A I N 2
11:00 11:17 wow yeah that's so trueee spore shroom is probably the most fun plant to use
I wouldn’t mind see you play/discuss ror2
Love that game
Bro's saying that Aloe is a bad plant? If you don't let 300 zombies be on screen at once Aloe + Chard Guard is an amazing combo that allows you to have an inifite Chard Guard! Same with Aloe + Endurian. If the strategy doesn't work with you it's just your fault, you just need Aloe, Chard Guard or Endurian and piercing plant like Lazer Beam or Shadow Peashooter!
Absolutely, that's why aloe is one of my favourite picks when I'm going to use chard guard!
I only use it for Far Future because of the tanky zombies. Specifically the cone thing. Yeah, kinda niche.
hypno was one of my favorite ways to deal with football zombie in pvz1 lol
A way to buff sporeshroom is for its plant food to make new sporeshrooms summoned by the plant food trigger plant food an spawning
The intro was great. Random gameplay is always fun to watch. Also gimmicks are cool just sucks when gimmicks are there for the sake of gimmicks i.e just every arena plant. I have no idea what half of them do and like it makes new plants less interesting tbh.
your first mistake was not restarting the run the moment you saw Siphoned Forest
i used to think hypnoshroom pf was op, but then it realized hypnoshroom pf is just a more costly jalapeno
"Hypno shroom's usefulness is up for debate"
Bro what