To strengthen the Meera representing Artemis angle, Artemis’ twin is Apollo with one of his main roles being the god of foresight. Just like how Jojen has the green dreams and can see visions of the future. This parallels the huntress sister and prophet brother between the pair.
I'm convinced that Ice is on a journey to becoming lightbringer. Ned went to his death knowing he might die to save his children, this can easily be framed as a sacrifice, to his own sword. The sword is split into widows wail and oathkeeper, but the smith quite specifically says he does not know why the two swords are a deep blood red, he couldn't replicate his work. My suspicion is that Jaime will be forced to sacrifice his love Cersei for honour, using widows wail. Next Brienne will be forced to sacrifice her love Jaime for honour, using oathkeeper. Both Jaime and Cersei are two halves of the lion from the story of lightbringer/nissa nissa. Also, Cersei's prophecy makes sense this way. This leaves Brienne with both swords. Brienne will then be duty bound to return the two blades to their rightful owner (Jon probably?) When the two swords are reforged into one, they are filled with the power of three blood sacrifices and something lightbringery happens! :) Maybe the sword functionally is lightbringer, but they call it Fire Just because it would add yet another layer of meaning to 'a song of Ice and Fire'
The sword also echoes the pattern of its mythological forging: 1) Tempered in water, upn which it broke 2) Tempered in the heart of a captured lion, upon which it broke 3 Tempered in the heart of Nissa Nissa, upon which she wailed The sword was 'Ice' (frozen water) before it was captured by the Lannisters (lions), after which it was broken in two (with one half named Widow's Wail). The only thing that hasn't happened is for it to be tempered in the heart of a Nissa Nissa figure, but since Oathkeeper is headed to Stoneheart (who let out a wail when Robb was murdered), perhaps her life's fire will ignite Oathkeeper?
Well isn’t this theory just lovely. Also the names of the swords could foreshadow those deaths. Cersei literally a widow (of her own doing) wailing when stabbed. Oathkeeper a cruel twist on Brienne keeping and oath to a shade of the woman she made it to.
My theory is that Euron’s next move after oldtown would be to attack Starfall to get his hands on Dawn. Then, the next sword of the morning (likely Edric or Darkstar) will have to fight his way out of there with it. This heroic deed could be looked at favorably by the realm which could be the initial reason why Aegon rewards him with a spot in his kingsguard.
1:29:11 Kind of odd, but could we think of the dire wolves as protective “scabbards?” Not only are they magical and very protective of their humans, but if Jon’s spirit does go into ghost to wait until reanimating, ghost would serve a protective function, literally encapsulating Jon, who becomes the “sword” of the morning when he is “drawn” out of Ghost?
Meera telling her Harrenhall story sounds like Howland's "How I met your mother" story. And her pause before beginning may be her sorting out what details to include or omit so as not to spill the beans about her mom.
If Dawn isn’t lightbringer then idk what’s real. It’s literally called “Dawn” as in “the light that the morning brings” don’t hurt yourselves overthinking this one, it’s ok for some things to be obvious in a story
FeyFire rocks dude! Your roster of guests is excellent, LML. I enjoy watching your ideas grow and develop in real time during these dynamic discussions.
If Azor Ahai has Dawn and also the Daynes (specifically the sword of the morning) have had Dawn since the dawn age, then doesn’t that make Azor Ahai a Dayne and the Sword of the morning? Then the last hero defeats him, takes Dawn/Ice from him, and, once he’s done using it, he returns it to Starfall where it belongs, just like Ned did.
yes and Azor Ahai becomes NK. Don't know if you made it to the end but I explain my theory on how it all went. NK is like frozen King Arthur, and Arthur Dayne is a parallel of him
Fantastic stream as always! It occurs to me that Howland Reed and Ashara “Gyanna” Dayne make perfect narrative sense - she’s a descendant of the GEOTD… who came to Westeros ostensibly seeking to ally with the Green Men and Children of the Forest. Critically, the Crannogmen are said to have a high percentage of COTF in their genetic makeup. What the rest of Andal Westeros sees as an ick, she might consider a benefit: her kids are going to be a genetic throwback to her earliest ancestors, complete with superpowers. If she’s a Dayne and aware of the Long Night coming again… and Arthur and Rhaegar believe it… then she might be doing a little bit of a stat boost herself
The tourney at harrenhal happened during the false spring. Which then turned into another year of winter. I don't think the timeline lines up for Ashara to be carrying a baby from that time. I think that definitely implies she is pregnant from a later point in the story. Also ashara is dornish and might not consider a bastard that much of a dishonor.
Jojen could be connected to Apollo because he's basically an oracle and Apollo would often give the gift of prophecy. It would also fit if in trying to avoid disaster Jojen accidently makes things worse or helps fulfill the dark future.
ah, to comment on the thing about psychic powers in SF: apparently, a large reason for them in the so called 'golden age' of SF, and I guess therefore a reason they became a trope in that genre in general is simply that the influential editor of the most influential SF magazine Astounding (later renamed to Analog), John W. Campbell jr. believed in parapsychology. So the same period that introduced the notion that science fiction is supposed to be factually plausible hypothetical futures (basically what we'd call 'hard SF' today) rather than just basically westerns with aliens instead of native americans, also grandfathered-in ESP; he believed they were factual powers, and explicitly pushed stories that used them. Its not just conjecture: Asimov explicitly accused him of pushing pseudoscience and publishing authors that conformed to his tastes, esp later on. As his influence waned, there was substantially less of that kind of stuff in science fiction, but the trope remained reasonably common. Its a bit shocking to think how cliquish the SF world of the time must have been for one (also otherwise far-right) dude to impose himself over a genre, and somewhat scandalous that he would use his position like that -- but here we are.. Enjoying your vids immensly! Dozed off during this iceberg at one point, and dreamt you were explaining the connections between the constellation of Orion and the jovian moon of Europa in mythology, while mixing cocktails for us ^^
Mashima Hiro (the creator of Fairy Tail and Eden's Zero) wrote that he always thought SF is an abbreviation for Space Fantasy, and I love that term so much 😂
I think the special swords in the story drink souls -Ice, Dawn and probably all Valyrian Steel. The blood and soul of Nissa Nissa went into the steel! It is a parallel to King Arthur remembering himself through Excalibur. It explains why Ned cleaned his sword in the Godswood. And why Ned returned Dawn to Starfall.
Jon Connington was exiled to Essos, he didn’t leave on his own, the only reason the Golden Company recognized him was because he served with the company for years. I think you are way overestimating how many people would actually know what Arthur Dayne looks like especially at the wall. There might be a couple who saw him tilt in full armor but it’s not like they’re shaking his hand.
dude he faked his own death, it was all a ruse so he could raise fAegon. And he used hair dye as a disguise. Arthur is very famous and would have beennseen at many tourneys, where they take their helms off between fights and to wave to the crowd. He's a celebrity, he can't hide at the Wall, there's no plot reason for him too, and people need to stop with these theories imo
If someone had child with Ashara then it will be Rhaegar not Aerys, Rhaegar and her have too much connection like Arthur being his best friend we don't know how long Rhaegar could visit Starfall so they could know each other well ,Ashara being his wife lady in waiting so she was close all the time,knight of the laughing tree and her laughing purple eyes Dornish women are usually let to train unlike in any other regions so she could be good with lace.She was in love but when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna she turned to Stark (Lyanna) out of jealousy(he dishonored her) also there is song that Arya hears sung by Daeron of the Night's Watch in Braavos Arya hears Dareon singing about "some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead." Question is for child or lover fun fact Daeron is called Lover by Alliser Thorne Targaryen loyalist Aerys hate Dorne do you remember when Rhaenys was presented at court by Rhaegar . Whilst her grandmother, Queen Rhaella embraced her warmly, her grandfather, King Aerys, refused to touch or hold her, claiming she smelled "Dornish"
yes and that kind-of bigoted hate can often coexist with attraction. Knowledge of the awful history of the American South proves that. I don't see any sense if having Rhagear sleep with a third woman when the big secret is him and Lyanna. No way was there any romance between Rhaegar and Ashara. nope
Thanks for the great stream! Your full version of "My name is fAegon" could be another track for the on hold playlist. I personally love the sweet bass tabs, but variety and all
Have You, David Lightbringer, ever seen the BBC-series called “Merlin”? The actor playing Merlin is called Colin Morgan, and Arthur is played by Bradley James. Although it is somewhat comedic, and has a somewhat different take on some of the original stories about King Arthur, it also preserves quite a bit of the main points of the stories, and legends. Merlin himself does, however, appear quite young, at around the same age as Arthur.
The Wildling, “How the Wanderer, he who walks alone”, whom we meet in one of Jon Snow’s last chapters in “A Dance with Dragons”, might be Howland Reed. His name stood out to me some time after I read the books, and for me the connection also made some sense. But it is only an idea/ hypothesis.
I know most believe r+l=j is a foregone conclusion but John being the sword of the morning and The true born son of Ned and ashara just seems so beautiful to me. All he ever wanted was to be lord of winterfell, though he could barely let himself dream of it. Order the green hands exclamation of how that would be is compelling to me. It is also compelling that Septa lemore is spelled LEMore not LAMore. Apparently lemur is latin for ghost. Just makes me think that may not be a coincidence- her being a ghost because she supposed to be dead- and also connected to John's "ghost". I know this is probably a tin foil theory but I really love it! For John's arc.... That he's the true born heir of winterfell, sword of the morning, and could be potentially reunited with his mom....
I've noticed that along with Dyanna (Diana) Dayne, there's an awful lot of people with -yanna names who each have at least a little moon-maiden/Nissa Nissa symbolism - Lyanna, Joanna, Tyanna, and even Queen Alysanne (if pronounced Aly-s-ann-a). I wonder if this is meant to e part of the People-Named-Jeyne-are-Moon-Maidens symbolism that you've already mentioned a lot (Jeyne/Dayne?), and I wonder if you can go so far as to connect that to the Mootons of Maidenpool (Moon-Town of the Maiden's Pool) which might even be an oblique reference to another Moon-Maiden, Jeyne Pool?
I'm honestly surprised to hear this take on areo hotah haha. Maybe he's being a bit cheeky for fun, but to my mind areo seems like a good man doing the best he can in a bizarre situation. He's gentle with arianne and Doran and he clearly feels remorse any time he is forced to be violent. The guy sleeps eleven minutes a day after tucking Doran in bed, let's cut him some slack haha
Howdy @David, I've been really enjoying your content for quite a while now but only recently started joining in on the streams. It's helped me with a lot of worldbuilding as a DND GM. Anyway, a few other chatters and I kinda had the same ah-hah moment when @FeyFire made that comment about House Whent's batty sigil's link to the lady of the lake, Nimwe. You told me to leave it in the comments, and so I do as my merling lord commands. The initial observation is that the Whents were lords of Harrenhall, and Harrenhall sits on the God's eye, so if you're looking for a lady of the lake the Whents are a good place to start. House Lothston also had a bat on it's sigil and lorded over Harrenhall. I don't know how the bat links to the lady of the lake, but @FeyFire clearly does, maybe there's something more lurking in that connection. On a first pass there's a lot of potential parallelism here linked to events with the pact on the god's eye; painting nissa nissa/night's queen as a lady of the lake figure who was slain on the god's eye in order to make/give azor ahai/night's king/last hero the sword lightbringer/dawn/ice, etc. The second observation is that Lady Cat's mother was a Whent (maybe even Oswell's sister! The full family tree isn't on the full wiki, but it's the right generation). This would give Cat lady of the lake status, and mean that Jon was whisked away to be rasied by a lady of the lake figure (even though Cat and Jon have a rough relationship). I'm not sure why Oswell needs to at the tower of joy either, but if Hightower, Dayne, and Whent are all there to paint John as an arthur figure--as you said a few times--then Whent can probably do that through the lady of the lake. This stuff is so freaking cool, thanks for all your work.
The entire section on Stealing Dawn at 2:52:09 fulfilled a question I’d had for a long time, and absolutely stunned me. I always wondered why the Last Hero, as the first Stark (or one of the first Starks), left or gifted the sword Dawn to the ancestors of the Danes at Starfall. If after he became a King of Winter, I had wondered why he wouldn’t have kept Dawn, as the first Ice sword, to further legitimacy and (more importantly) because it can very likely kill the Others, or Wights, maybe even dragons like what was said in this video! But if the ancestors of the Danes were recent/distant descendants of, or were related in some way to, the Amethyst Empress…it makes so much sense that the Last Hero would return the imperial arms to those who honored the memory of the last true regnant of the Great Empire. And that, thereafter, the Last Hero and his successors named their royal swords “Ice” in memory of that weapon. Thank you for the revelation! I’m not sure if this is the first time that portion (the loyalists idea as the reason for the return of Dawn) of the theory has been mentioned before, but nonetheless it really fits-I’m convinced.
I didn't really mention the Great Empire in my original Dawn is Ice videos IIRC, probably because I wanted it to stand on its own and not require people to understand the GEOTD theory. But yes once you believe that Azor Ahai became NK, it all clicks into place. Cheers!
I know the theory gets a lot of hate. But I still enjoy Ashara being Jon’s mother. Because Jon seems much more like a Stark-Dayne and deserves to wield Dawn.
just found this channel and wanted to say I have really enjoyed watching these deep dive videos. thanks for the all the hard work you've put into this content.
Binging the current streams on re-watch.. Great show, as always.. Need to catch an actual live stream ASAP!! I'd' love to see Ned Dayne get an amazing "Light of the Morning" story.arc. But, that may be impossible, due to the 5 year time jump scrappage (Even for Ser G.R.R.Martin's penmanship skills!!). And, Dany definitely Will be a Fire Wight..no doubt!!
1:00:15 I think it's interesting to look at the irl meaning of the name Meera too.. it's an indian and hebrew name, so it means different things in either language. Meera in sanskrit means "Sea" and in hebrew, "Light or Saintly Woman". The Hebrew meaning is very Dayne sounding to me.. first light = dawn, maybe a reference to the Amethyst Empress.. But the first one is also cool if you think about Ashara's "suicide".. "She jumped into the sea, I'm told" ...
43:51 just a thought about Orion and horn blowing could also connect to Tarly family whose symbol is a Huntsman and especially Sam with that horn he found.
The biggest Merlyn - Bran parallel I see is that Merlyn experiences time much differently from the rest of humanity: in T. H. White’s 1938 “The Sword in the Stone,” then later his “The Once & Future King,” Merlyn was born at the other end of time from the rest of us & ages against the flow of time: he grows older (from his perspective) as the years run backwards, he grows younger by everyone else’s perspective. This means he has experienced what we know as the future before we do. Considering White’s Arthurian novels are probably more famous than any other Arthurian work other than “Le Morte d’Arthur,” the parallels between Merlyn & Bran both swimming time’s river unconventionally seems to me the most obvious similarity between the two. From White’s “The Sword in the Stone” we read Merlyn speaking to Arthur: “I was unfortunately born at the wrong end of time, and I have to live backwards from in front, while surrounded by a lot of people living forwards from behind.”
If the Great Empire of the Dawn were Phoenicians, then would that make the Daynes and Hightowers the Carthaginians as their descendants? And the Valyrians are the Romans, the new empire who overthrew the Carthaginians (the Targaryens invading Westeros, occupying Oldtown and subduing Dorne/the Daynes).
just wanted to throw it out there, maybe other commenters have pointed this out, but Meera sounding like "mirror" could be related to the "mirror of dawn" constellation you were taking about wrt Orion, giving Meera another connection to the Sword of the Morning Dayne constellation! also, Apollo is the god of prophecy, the patron deity of the sactuary at Delphi, the most sacred site in Ancient Greece and once considered to be the navel of the world. Jojen isn't very Apollo-like, but he definitely brings the first strong dose of prophecy into the story!!
Hello! Been listening and lurking for a few years but a thought occurred to me that I want to share. In regard to your discussion of scabbards with FeyFire, Nissa Nissa is the scabbard. For both Lightbringer and Azor Ahai's "sword". When he sheathes it in her, Lightbringer is empowered and, well, she's his wife. There's also a dirty joke lingering in there about her wailing while taking his "sword".
one we've made some version of many times, you can be sure 🤣🤣 and since the weirwoods are parallel to NN, in that they receive the fiery spirit of Azor Ahai, they are the sheath for the fire of the gods
I was looking up "Oswell/Oswald" and "Whent" related stuff to see if I could find anything to tie to the TOJ, and (maybe coincidentally, I would not be surprised if George was unaware of this, it honestly feels TOO perfect to be anything real) there was an India-born British guy named Sir (yes he was knighted) Gerald Arthur Whent. He founded a telecommunications company (Weirwood net anyone? Lol).
Ashara Dayne is such an interesting character. I think the man who “dishonored her” was Oberyn Martell(though I will say I kinda like the idea of it being Aerys). Elia and Oberyn were close, as Elia’s lady in waiting she would have known him. We know that she danced with him at Harrenhal and also that bastards are a bit of a habit with him. None of the sand snakes seem to fit, basically their age or their physical characteristics rule them out. I think her baby actually did die (hat tip to the Allyria Dayne theory though) Anyway, the story that Ashara threw herself into the sea, is just that, a story. A cover for her whereabouts and activities, helping raise young Griff in Essos. Likely the Daynes know that she is alive. The introduction of Ned Dayne in an Arya POV chapter shows that Ned Stark has the respect of house Dayne. Ned Dayne says that Ned and Ashara were in love and that Jon’s mother is Willa who is was his own wet nurse. This he asserts very confidently; it is what he has been told by older family members. They know that Ned Stark is not the father of Ashara’s child, and Willa is the story they put about for him(though I do think that had Jon turned out looking differently they might have covered for him by saying the mother was Ashara). If Ashara had killed herself in grief over the loss of her true love and esteemed brother, one killed by said lover, the absolute best case scenario would be that the surviving family members be understanding of the position that Ned was put into and not vilify him. I can’t imagine they would honor him by naming a new addition to house Dayne after him. What exactly occurred at the tower of joy is not fully known. What happened to Ashara that caused her to “look to Stark” ( which I interpret as turn to for comfort or help) and how he helped also is unclear. Without that information it’s hard to understand the feelings house Dayne has toward Ned Stark, but it appears he had their appreciation. More so than if he had just returned their ancestral sword. Varys contacted Ashara and told her that he had saved baby Aegon . He knew he could count on her to help keep Elia’s son safe and to take part in the plan to restore him to his birthright. Varys, as he was in Kings Landing, was in a position to rescue baby Aegon. This he did not do, because his loyalty is not to the Targaryens, nor “to the realm”. For someone who claims to want peace for the realm he has caused much chaos and discord. All in service of his goal to put young Griff specifically on the throne? Griff’s training and humble beginnings by no means guarantee that he will be a good king. And why would someone from Essos care? Varys like young Griff is a Blackfyre. Magister Illyrio’s involvement makes sense if young Griff is his and Serra’s son , Serra being a Blackfyre descendant who does not have the name. Indications of this are in Illyrio’s conversations with Tyrion: the name Blackfyre is extinct in the male line, having debts of affection, physical description of Serra, his affection for Griff. ( For completeness sake, Illyrio did say he got Serra from a pillow house in Lys which does remind me of Jahaerys’ wayward daughter Saera, who ran away and became a courtesan in Lys. She had illegitimate descendants of her own, some of whom put forth their claims back in Jahaerys’ day. So Serra as a descendant of Saera is possibility but her being an actual Blackfyre makes better sense for the story given their long history of making bids for the throne.) Varys and Illyrio did not intend for Viscerys or Danerys to conquer Westeros. It was always young Griff. If there was ever any use for Dany it would have been to enhance young Griff’s appearance of legitimacy. They must not have considered that all that useful. Or else why give her to the Dothraki? Once she had the dragons their plans changed. Now to where we are currently in the story. Tyrion’s meddling has put them on track to clash. And despite that laudatory speech Varys gave to Kevan, Griff has some entitled boy king vibes. If Griff conquers Westeros without Dany he may have a change of attitude about marrying her. With the love of the realm and the pride of victory he could decide he doesn’t need her. He’ll know that by tradition he has the better claim. He may decide to marry Arianne for house Martell support. Dany and her dragons will be essential in the war against the others. She will feel it is her right to rule. And frankly, there’s some logic to that. Isn’t a government’s primary duty the protection of its people? Who better than the person who saves the realm from the long night? Dany already has distrusted Illyrio, how are they going to explain away the disparity between her upbringing and Griff’s? She’s going to find out he’s a Blackfyre, the mummer’s dragon.While I disagreed with the ending of the show(the 180 flip into villainy), a darker and more ruthless side of her could make sense. During her time in the Dothraki sea her visions may convince her to be more blood of the dragon. Tyrion, if he were to become an advisor, may be a destructive influence. The people of Westeros might consider young Griff as the savior who delivers them from endless war and her a barbaric outlander who comes to conquer. If deaths result from dragons (probably should say when not if) she’ll be the one at fault. Whether it was her lack of ability to control them (dragons will be dragons) or she hits some people unintentionally won’t matter in the public opinion. I could see her burning Griff and some of his supporters, a move unlikely to improve her image, but no way she’s going to indiscriminately burn small folk. I branched out a bit there. In my defense, none of my friends or family are obsessed with ASOIAF so I guess I just had to go off to you folks.
Personally I think Jon is Ned or Brandon and Ashara’s kid and Aegon is Leanna and Rhaegar’s kid. I don’t buy R+L = J at all. Also Ashara could be the septa. That would make sense. Given they are in Essos purple eyes are pretty common. Tyrion may not note it for that reason. And the reason Ned would keep that secret is to avoid a succession crisis in the North.
I know this comment should go in a video where you’ve discussed a Dolores Ed (edited, I initially wrote Donald Noy by mistake). But, just heard him say how hard it was to sleep when people keep blowing horns. Another possible sign that the broken horn Jon blew could have been what brought the Wights to the Fist of the First Men.
"The pages told of Azor Ahai. Lightbringer was his sword. Tempered with his wife's blood if Votar can be believed. Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm. In battle the blade burned fiery hot. Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust the sword through the belly of the beast, its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks, and its body burst into flame." Jon Snow reading the Jade Compendium. Sounds like he is killing a dragon. Or tempering his sword in a dragon?
Love when you talk about the Elric stuff but it seems pretty obvious to me that if AA/NK/LH/BE are the same person that their name was Jon Snow. An “evil” name.
The point about the statue being Orion and the sword of the morning and evening; You mentioned they way a horn is blown from it in the morning and the evening. Two horns, morning and evening. Ice and fire, maybe? Horn of Winter and the burning horn of Dragon Binfing?
Ghost could be the scabbard to John Snow's soul (burning sword of fire and ice). Daenarys' Nissa Nissa' heart is sacrificed (either love or literally death) to bring the sword to light i.e. bring John soul back. So Dany is light bringer and John is the light 😅.
In the Saga of the Volsungs, which culminates in Sigfried the dragon slayer, Odin drives a sword through the trunk of a great tree growing up through the hall of Volsung.
I always thought Lenor was the Septa that Oberyn got pregnant with one of his bastard girls. Figured it was another example of how the Martells were involved with Illyrio's plotting.
Could Darkstar also be an foreshadowing of him eclipsing the sun of the Martells? A teenager such as FAegon is likely to believe that someone the same age and as "cool" as Darkstar is a person to look up to & emulate. Perhaps FAegon thinks that having Darkstar in his court is more important than anything the Martells have to offer. Seems mad but FAegon is starting to believe his own hype & taking Storms End along with KL will only add to that. (Edit) In addition it wasn't mentioned but another Dawn-Excaliber similarity is Dawn is stored in the stone ie Palestone Sword tower & not just anyone is worthy to wield it or take it from the stone. The sword of the morning title is only given to Arthurian characters. I think there may have been a Sword of the evening title given to a prior wielder of Dorne who was a lord Dayne that I believe took it without embodying the Arthurian traits. Kind of like what we expect Dark Star to do.
Maybe Arthur Dayne is alive in braavos if the titan is such a strong symbol of the daynes. Him and his sister could be aiding the Prophecy from afar - ashara being quaithe is a common theory already
1:27:09 I guess this is where A + L = J came from, though it's much more likely to be Rhaegar, though it is quite odd. Do you know of any in-text evidence of the theory, either direct or indirect?
Tbf, Areo Hotah is a psycho, but I’ve always felt Darkstar is much worse. Darkstar always gives me chills and I feel like the dark things we know about him are barely the top of the iceberg; he strikes me as what someone like Joffrey would have been if he had been born with skill with the sword, courage and charm.
@DavidLightbringer Have you heard of new grange? Its a monument that tells story of conception of spring god Aengus. Ray of light goes into the source of the river on the equinox(dagda affair with river godess boann). Good sybolism picture for you too.
I hope that Darkstar is working with the high hermit (Doran). Especially if Ned Dane is not privy to any of the Dornish conspiracy. Would make a Darkstar and Ned Dane confrontation very dramatic if GRRM chooses to go that direction
The people: we need a hero to stop this endless night! The Last Hero: I will end it with my sword. The people: what is the name of your sword? Last Hero: Are you ready for this, cuz it's going to blow your mind!
Could Ashara be the Reed mom AND Quath at the same time? Who’s to say Moat Calin didn’t leave behind a glass candle once upon a time that the Cranogmen didn’t obtain?
Meera the name it self means female ruler, admirable, ocean, peace, among others, light and saintly figure. Meera is seen as admirable, a female rule seeing as she is the next in line and is hidden among the crannogmen. That part of the ocean could be tied back to her mother throwing herself out to the sea when they thought she miscarried.
What if all of the prophecies are actually just about the stars and constellations and planets… and it’s actually a time map riddle. Not necessarily about certain people.
Jantar, yantar, Янтарь in slavic languages means amber, by the way, I just couldn't miss noticing that, as your pronunciation was matching perfectly 😅 Dzintars, gintaras in Latvian and Lithuanias, Baltic languages, Gintaras is also popular boy name. Aaand there is Lithuanian legeng about amber castle under the sea, which was destroyed by Perkūnas, god of thunder, who got jealous cause mermaid Jūratė (jūra means sea) fell in love with mortal fisherman Kastytis, and that's how we still find ambers on the seashore 😊 that's more for your squishers theory, or Durrandon, I guess 😅, just Jūratė and Kastytis story did not had happy ending...
excalibur theres only one sword it broke in a fight with lancelot before he became his champion, lancelot was supposed to win but arthur used the sword with his will to defeat lancelot causing it to break when he slashed lancelots armor and wrent it. arthur realizes the error of his ways and throws the broken excalibur back into the lake, the lady of the lake brings the sword back up to the surface reforged. its still the same sword
@@DavidLightbringer your stuff on game of thrones world is excellent too btw i must say. i loved learning about the more mythical magical and lesser known stuff from the books and other parts of the world not shown in the tv series
I hadn't given the Ashara-is-Lenore theory much thought until now. I suppose there is some chance Lenore could be Ashara and Faegon her supposedly-miscarried son by Arys..?
So the Arthur Rheagar Elia Ashara team jamming at night about prophecies it’s kind of the Jon Bran Arya Sansa maybee!!???! Sansa as Ashara and Arya as Elia is something that i see when i read them!?!? So maybe Septa Lemore is Elia???
What about R + L = Jon & Meera? Has there been any conversation about twins by R & L? I know Ned + Ashara = Jon has been quite soundly rejected (& with good reason), & therefore Ned + Ashara = Jon & Meera is also not sound, but I’ve not heard the possibility of Lyanna having twins discussed.
To be clear, I’m aware this theory has been around for a looooong time, but it seems to have dropped off; also, I should say, I’m not the biggest fan of “what if” theories that don’t have any solid proof in the books; however, the physical & temperamental similarities between Jon & Meera are striking. Furthermore, there’s quite a lot of circumstantial support for this theory: Reed & Ned were incredibly close, so Reed fostering one secret twin while Ned fosters the other is a plausible parallel; Meera protects Bran as Jon would while traveling north (& the North is the home of all three); Meera loses Jojen, who in this theory would certainly be considered her brother regardless of actual genealogy, but gains another “brother” in Bran in the sense that Bran is Jon’s brother in all ways that matter; she also loses a brother (Jojen) but gains an actual brother in Jon; lastly, Jon & Meera make a markedly stark (pun intended) contrast to the only other prominent twins in the series, Jaime & Cersei. One set of twins is light in coloring but dark in character, the other set is dark in coloring but light in character, etc etc etc. GRRM also has avoided the twins-trope rather distinctly (& for all his claims of subverting fantasy tropes, he’s 100% the worst abuser of them); so why has GRRM thus far only introduced one twin-set that’s hugely significant to his story? Yes, I’m aware other twins exist, most recently the Cargyll twins of the Kingsguard Erryk & Arryk have gotten some extra attention from what they do/will eventually do in “Fire & Blood” & HotD respectively, but they’re insignificant thematically compared to Jaime & Cersei. The same goes for every other set so far introduced: the Redwyne twins are more or less comic relief, Tywin’s dad had twin brothers (the Lannisters have a lot of twins through the generations), Daemon Blackfyre had twins Aegon & Aemon, but again, these & every other set (thus far) other than Jaime & Cersei are at best footnotes in history. Given GRRM’s penchant for trope-indulgence, regardless of his claims to the latter, I find it curious he has largely avoided over-using this one trope after he beats the hell out of so many others. Lastly, it would be one helluva twist if Meera turns out to be Jon’s twin by R & L, & unlike so many other theory-twists, this one definitely would not be world-breaking.
In the oldest stories excalibur is in the stone. Later versions changed that. I dont know of any historical texts mentioning "little brown people" in the Arthur legend. But maybe I just missed that one. There are a lot of false informations out there claiming to be of ancient origin but is in fact a modern invention or outright fanfic. There is some truth in it, the first Europeans had brown skin tones. Btw. I can trace my heritage back to the first europeans thanks to my Y Haplogroup belonging to a subclade of I1a.
Why does it make sense thematically for Jon to have a Dayne Sword when he has earned Longclaw? Then what happens to Longclaw?? Also why wouldn't Ashara tell her brother?
didn't I explain that exactly? Jon should have Dawn, because it was the original Ice, carried by a Stark last hero. Longclaw will go back to House Mormont, since Jon never thinks it really belongs to him. I literally said all this
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To strengthen the Meera representing Artemis angle, Artemis’ twin is Apollo with one of his main roles being the god of foresight. Just like how Jojen has the green dreams and can see visions of the future. This parallels the huntress sister and prophet brother between the pair.
thank you Nate!
I love this! A pair of my favorite characters in each story world 💚🌝
I'm convinced that Ice is on a journey to becoming lightbringer.
Ned went to his death knowing he might die to save his children, this can easily be framed as a sacrifice, to his own sword.
The sword is split into widows wail and oathkeeper, but the smith quite specifically says he does not know why the two swords are a deep blood red, he couldn't replicate his work.
My suspicion is that Jaime will be forced to sacrifice his love Cersei for honour, using widows wail. Next Brienne will be forced to sacrifice her love Jaime for honour, using oathkeeper. Both Jaime and Cersei are two halves of the lion from the story of lightbringer/nissa nissa.
Also, Cersei's prophecy makes sense this way.
This leaves Brienne with both swords. Brienne will then be duty bound to return the two blades to their rightful owner (Jon probably?)
When the two swords are reforged into one, they are filled with the power of three blood sacrifices and something lightbringery happens! :)
Maybe the sword functionally is lightbringer, but they call it Fire Just because it would add yet another layer of meaning to 'a song of Ice and Fire'
The sword also echoes the pattern of its mythological forging:
1) Tempered in water, upn which it broke
2) Tempered in the heart of a captured lion, upon which it broke
3 Tempered in the heart of Nissa Nissa, upon which she wailed
The sword was 'Ice' (frozen water) before it was captured by the Lannisters (lions), after which it was broken in two (with one half named Widow's Wail). The only thing that hasn't happened is for it to be tempered in the heart of a Nissa Nissa figure, but since Oathkeeper is headed to Stoneheart (who let out a wail when Robb was murdered), perhaps her life's fire will ignite Oathkeeper?
Well isn’t this theory just lovely. Also the names of the swords could foreshadow those deaths. Cersei literally a widow (of her own doing) wailing when stabbed. Oathkeeper a cruel twist on Brienne keeping and oath to a shade of the woman she made it to.
We’ll im going down a rabbit hole now. Brienne refers to Oathkeeper as a “magic sword” in feast according to Oathkeeper’s wiki page
@@SheijaI realy luv this theory an I didn't make the connection to the "Lion " till now
I think it NOT Jamie who kill Cersi, I think it Hound that does it Jamie have gold hand.
Imagine Danny burns Darkstar to death with Drogon and in the smoldering aftermath Dawn is still there unblemished and unharmed.
sick I love it
My theory is that Euron’s next move after oldtown would be to attack Starfall to get his hands on Dawn. Then, the next sword of the morning (likely Edric or Darkstar) will have to fight his way out of there with it. This heroic deed could be looked at favorably by the realm which could be the initial reason why Aegon rewards him with a spot in his kingsguard.
😅😅😊😅
1:29:11 Kind of odd, but could we think of the dire wolves as protective “scabbards?” Not only are they magical and very protective of their humans, but if Jon’s spirit does go into ghost to wait until reanimating, ghost would serve a protective function, literally encapsulating Jon, who becomes the “sword” of the morning when he is “drawn” out of Ghost?
Meera telling her Harrenhall story sounds like Howland's "How I met your mother" story. And her pause before beginning may be her sorting out what details to include or omit so as not to spill the beans about her mom.
If Dawn isn’t lightbringer then idk what’s real. It’s literally called “Dawn” as in “the light that the morning brings” don’t hurt yourselves overthinking this one, it’s ok for some things to be obvious in a story
FeyFire rocks dude! Your roster of guests is excellent, LML. I enjoy watching your ideas grow and develop in real time during these dynamic discussions.
If Azor Ahai has Dawn and also the Daynes (specifically the sword of the morning) have had Dawn since the dawn age, then doesn’t that make Azor Ahai a Dayne and the Sword of the morning? Then the last hero defeats him, takes Dawn/Ice from him, and, once he’s done using it, he returns it to Starfall where it belongs, just like Ned did.
yes and Azor Ahai becomes NK. Don't know if you made it to the end but I explain my theory on how it all went. NK is like frozen King Arthur, and Arthur Dayne is a parallel of him
Fantastic stream as always!
It occurs to me that Howland Reed and Ashara “Gyanna” Dayne make perfect narrative sense - she’s a descendant of the GEOTD… who came to Westeros ostensibly seeking to ally with the Green Men and Children of the Forest.
Critically, the Crannogmen are said to have a high percentage of COTF in their genetic makeup.
What the rest of Andal Westeros sees as an ick, she might consider a benefit: her kids are going to be a genetic throwback to her earliest ancestors, complete with superpowers. If she’s a Dayne and aware of the Long Night coming again… and Arthur and Rhaegar believe it… then she might be doing a little bit of a stat boost herself
The tourney at harrenhal happened during the false spring. Which then turned into another year of winter. I don't think the timeline lines up for Ashara to be carrying a baby from that time. I think that definitely implies she is pregnant from a later point in the story. Also ashara is dornish and might not consider a bastard that much of a dishonor.
Thank you David for this epic stream. You always do all your Icebergs justice. Appreciate your efforts as always. Have a good one :)
Jojen could be connected to Apollo because he's basically an oracle and Apollo would often give the gift of prophecy. It would also fit if in trying to avoid disaster Jojen accidently makes things worse or helps fulfill the dark future.
someone else pointed this out and it seems spot on
The magic scabbard could be Ghost in a sense. It holds Jon's spirit, and while Ghost's body lives Jon cannot die a true death.
ah, to comment on the thing about psychic powers in SF: apparently, a large reason for them in the so called 'golden age' of SF, and I guess therefore a reason they became a trope in that genre in general is simply that the influential editor of the most influential SF magazine Astounding (later renamed to Analog), John W. Campbell jr. believed in parapsychology.
So the same period that introduced the notion that science fiction is supposed to be factually plausible hypothetical futures (basically what we'd call 'hard SF' today) rather than just basically westerns with aliens instead of native americans, also grandfathered-in ESP; he believed they were factual powers, and explicitly pushed stories that used them. Its not just conjecture: Asimov explicitly accused him of pushing pseudoscience and publishing authors that conformed to his tastes, esp later on. As his influence waned, there was substantially less of that kind of stuff in science fiction, but the trope remained reasonably common.
Its a bit shocking to think how cliquish the SF world of the time must have been for one (also otherwise far-right) dude to impose himself over a genre, and somewhat scandalous that he would use his position like that -- but here we are..
Enjoying your vids immensly! Dozed off during this iceberg at one point, and dreamt you were explaining the connections between the constellation of Orion and the jovian moon of Europa in mythology, while mixing cocktails for us ^^
hey thanks that's interesting background info!!
and lol I secret bonghits and dabs. it cocktails!!! get it right dream Lightbringer!
Mashima Hiro (the creator of Fairy Tail and Eden's Zero) wrote that he always thought SF is an abbreviation for Space Fantasy, and I love that term so much 😂
1:26:30 As someone who doesn't know that much about Arthurian legend, I would love videos exploring the similarities between that and ASOIAF.
I think the special swords in the story drink souls -Ice, Dawn and probably all Valyrian Steel. The blood and soul of Nissa Nissa went into the steel!
It is a parallel to King Arthur remembering himself through Excalibur. It explains why Ned cleaned his sword in the Godswood. And why Ned returned Dawn to Starfall.
I loved the Lost Years of Merlin books when I was a kid and I could totally see him as a Bran parallel. Great guest on a great stream.
Jon Connington was exiled to Essos, he didn’t leave on his own, the only reason the Golden Company recognized him was because he served with the company for years. I think you are way overestimating how many people would actually know what Arthur Dayne looks like especially at the wall. There might be a couple who saw him tilt in full armor but it’s not like they’re shaking his hand.
dude he faked his own death, it was all a ruse so he could raise fAegon. And he used hair dye as a disguise. Arthur is very famous and would have beennseen at many tourneys, where they take their helms off between fights and to wave to the crowd. He's a celebrity, he can't hide at the Wall, there's no plot reason for him too, and people need to stop with these theories imo
If someone had child with Ashara then it will be Rhaegar not Aerys, Rhaegar and her have too much connection like Arthur being his best friend we don't know how long Rhaegar could visit Starfall so they could know each other well ,Ashara being his wife lady in waiting so she was close all the time,knight of the laughing tree and her laughing purple eyes Dornish women are usually let to train unlike in any other regions so she could be good with lace.She was in love but when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna she turned to Stark (Lyanna) out of jealousy(he dishonored her) also there is song that Arya hears sung by Daeron of the Night's Watch in Braavos Arya hears Dareon singing about
"some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead."
Question is for child or lover fun fact Daeron is called Lover by Alliser Thorne Targaryen loyalist
Aerys hate Dorne do you remember when Rhaenys was presented at court by Rhaegar . Whilst her grandmother, Queen Rhaella embraced her warmly, her grandfather, King Aerys, refused to touch or hold her, claiming she smelled "Dornish"
yes and that kind-of bigoted hate can often coexist with attraction. Knowledge of the awful history of the American South proves that. I don't see any sense if having Rhagear sleep with a third woman when the big secret is him and Lyanna. No way was there any romance between Rhaegar and Ashara. nope
Agreed. Def what happened
Thanks for the great stream! Your full version of "My name is fAegon" could be another track for the on hold playlist. I personally love the sweet bass tabs, but variety and all
Have You, David Lightbringer, ever seen the BBC-series called “Merlin”?
The actor playing Merlin is called Colin Morgan, and Arthur is played by Bradley James.
Although it is somewhat comedic, and has a somewhat different take on some of the original stories about King Arthur, it also preserves quite a bit of the main points of the stories, and legends.
Merlin himself does, however, appear quite young, at around the same age as Arthur.
The Wildling, “How the Wanderer, he who walks alone”, whom we meet in one of Jon Snow’s last chapters in “A Dance with Dragons”, might be Howland Reed.
His name stood out to me some time after I read the books, and for me the connection also made some sense.
But it is only an idea/ hypothesis.
“Howd the Wanderer”😉
I know most believe r+l=j is a foregone conclusion but John being the sword of the morning and The true born son of Ned and ashara just seems so beautiful to me. All he ever wanted was to be lord of winterfell, though he could barely let himself dream of it. Order the green hands exclamation of how that would be is compelling to me.
It is also compelling that Septa lemore is spelled LEMore not LAMore.
Apparently lemur is latin for ghost. Just makes me think that may not be a coincidence- her being a ghost because she supposed to be dead- and also connected to John's "ghost". I know this is probably a tin foil theory but I really love it! For John's arc....
That he's the true born heir of winterfell, sword of the morning, and could be potentially reunited with his mom....
I apologize for the grammar mistakes. Talk to text sucks
It Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne and Jon Snow is their Son.
I've noticed that along with Dyanna (Diana) Dayne, there's an awful lot of people with -yanna names who each have at least a little moon-maiden/Nissa Nissa symbolism - Lyanna, Joanna, Tyanna, and even Queen Alysanne (if pronounced Aly-s-ann-a).
I wonder if this is meant to e part of the People-Named-Jeyne-are-Moon-Maidens symbolism that you've already mentioned a lot (Jeyne/Dayne?), and I wonder if you can go so far as to connect that to the Mootons of Maidenpool (Moon-Town of the Maiden's Pool) which might even be an oblique reference to another Moon-Maiden, Jeyne Pool?
I'm honestly surprised to hear this take on areo hotah haha. Maybe he's being a bit cheeky for fun, but to my mind areo seems like a good man doing the best he can in a bizarre situation. He's gentle with arianne and Doran and he clearly feels remorse any time he is forced to be violent. The guy sleeps eleven minutes a day after tucking Doran in bed, let's cut him some slack haha
You mentioned Barristan's crush on Ashara, it's so weird he was crushing g that ha e d when he was 35-40 years her senior
Howdy @David, I've been really enjoying your content for quite a while now but only recently started joining in on the streams. It's helped me with a lot of worldbuilding as a DND GM. Anyway, a few other chatters and I kinda had the same ah-hah moment when @FeyFire made that comment about House Whent's batty sigil's link to the lady of the lake, Nimwe. You told me to leave it in the comments, and so I do as my merling lord commands.
The initial observation is that the Whents were lords of Harrenhall, and Harrenhall sits on the God's eye, so if you're looking for a lady of the lake the Whents are a good place to start. House Lothston also had a bat on it's sigil and lorded over Harrenhall. I don't know how the bat links to the lady of the lake, but @FeyFire clearly does, maybe there's something more lurking in that connection. On a first pass there's a lot of potential parallelism here linked to events with the pact on the god's eye; painting nissa nissa/night's queen as a lady of the lake figure who was slain on the god's eye in order to make/give azor ahai/night's king/last hero the sword lightbringer/dawn/ice, etc.
The second observation is that Lady Cat's mother was a Whent (maybe even Oswell's sister! The full family tree isn't on the full wiki, but it's the right generation). This would give Cat lady of the lake status, and mean that Jon was whisked away to be rasied by a lady of the lake figure (even though Cat and Jon have a rough relationship). I'm not sure why Oswell needs to at the tower of joy either, but if Hightower, Dayne, and Whent are all there to paint John as an arthur figure--as you said a few times--then Whent can probably do that through the lady of the lake. This stuff is so freaking cool, thanks for all your work.
1:02:19 Apollo confers the gift of prophecy. Jojen confers, in a sense, a greenseer's clairvoyance on Bran. There's something there.
CLEO STRUTTING HER STUFF for a full stream, what good deeds could we have done to deserve such blessings
The entire section on Stealing Dawn at 2:52:09 fulfilled a question I’d had for a long time, and absolutely stunned me.
I always wondered why the Last Hero, as the first Stark (or one of the first Starks), left or gifted the sword Dawn to the ancestors of the Danes at Starfall. If after he became a King of Winter, I had wondered why he wouldn’t have kept Dawn, as the first Ice sword, to further legitimacy and (more importantly) because it can very likely kill the Others, or Wights, maybe even dragons like what was said in this video!
But if the ancestors of the Danes were recent/distant descendants of, or were related in some way to, the Amethyst Empress…it makes so much sense that the Last Hero would return the imperial arms to those who honored the memory of the last true regnant of the Great Empire. And that, thereafter, the Last Hero and his successors named their royal swords “Ice” in memory of that weapon.
Thank you for the revelation! I’m not sure if this is the first time that portion (the loyalists idea as the reason for the return of Dawn) of the theory has been mentioned before, but nonetheless it really fits-I’m convinced.
I didn't really mention the Great Empire in my original Dawn is Ice videos IIRC, probably because I wanted it to stand on its own and not require people to understand the GEOTD theory. But yes once you believe that Azor Ahai became NK, it all clicks into place. Cheers!
I know the theory gets a lot of hate. But I still enjoy Ashara being Jon’s mother. Because Jon seems much more like a Stark-Dayne and deserves to wield Dawn.
I love Targaryens but not everyone can be a Targaryen. I really don’t want Jon to be a Targaryen.
just found this channel and wanted to say I have really enjoyed watching these deep dive videos. thanks for the all the hard work you've put into this content.
Welcome aboard! Glad you found us :)
@@DavidLightbringer can I ask who your favorite character is in the books?
A worthy stream. Thank you!
Binging the current streams on re-watch.. Great show, as always.. Need to catch an actual live stream ASAP!!
I'd' love to see Ned Dayne get an amazing "Light of the Morning" story.arc. But, that may be impossible, due to the 5 year time jump scrappage (Even for Ser G.R.R.Martin's penmanship skills!!).
And, Dany definitely Will be a Fire Wight..no doubt!!
1:00:15 I think it's interesting to look at the irl meaning of the name Meera too.. it's an indian and hebrew name, so it means different things in either language. Meera in sanskrit means "Sea" and in hebrew, "Light or Saintly Woman". The Hebrew meaning is very Dayne sounding to me.. first light = dawn, maybe a reference to the Amethyst Empress.. But the first one is also cool if you think about Ashara's "suicide".. "She jumped into the sea, I'm told" ...
Dany is a Targaryen but NOT the father who you think it is. Her father is Rhaegar not Aerys. Viserys her Uncle and not Brother.
you'll never convince me this is even possible
The whole Meera tricking Summer to trap him In her net sounds more like Blood raven tricking Bran to trap him in the weirwood net to me tbh
43:51 just a thought about Orion and horn blowing could also connect to Tarly family whose symbol is a Huntsman and especially Sam with that horn he found.
The biggest Merlyn - Bran parallel I see is that Merlyn experiences time much differently from the rest of humanity: in T. H. White’s 1938 “The Sword in the Stone,” then later his “The Once & Future King,” Merlyn was born at the other end of time from the rest of us & ages against the flow of time: he grows older (from his perspective) as the years run backwards, he grows younger by everyone else’s perspective. This means he has experienced what we know as the future before we do. Considering White’s Arthurian novels are probably more famous than any other Arthurian work other than “Le Morte d’Arthur,” the parallels between Merlyn & Bran both swimming time’s river unconventionally seems to me the most obvious similarity between the two.
From White’s “The Sword in the Stone” we read Merlyn speaking to Arthur:
“I was unfortunately born at the wrong end of time, and I have to live backwards from in front, while surrounded by a lot of people living forwards from behind.”
If the Great Empire of the Dawn were Phoenicians, then would that make the Daynes and Hightowers the Carthaginians as their descendants? And the Valyrians are the Romans, the new empire who overthrew the Carthaginians (the Targaryens invading Westeros, occupying Oldtown and subduing Dorne/the Daynes).
just wanted to throw it out there, maybe other commenters have pointed this out, but Meera sounding like "mirror" could be related to the "mirror of dawn" constellation you were taking about wrt Orion, giving Meera another connection to the Sword of the Morning Dayne constellation! also, Apollo is the god of prophecy, the patron deity of the sactuary at Delphi, the most sacred site in Ancient Greece and once considered to be the navel of the world. Jojen isn't very Apollo-like, but he definitely brings the first strong dose of prophecy into the story!!
Hello! Been listening and lurking for a few years but a thought occurred to me that I want to share. In regard to your discussion of scabbards with FeyFire, Nissa Nissa is the scabbard. For both Lightbringer and Azor Ahai's "sword". When he sheathes it in her, Lightbringer is empowered and, well, she's his wife.
There's also a dirty joke lingering in there about her wailing while taking his "sword".
one we've made some version of many times, you can be sure 🤣🤣 and since the weirwoods are parallel to NN, in that they receive the fiery spirit of Azor Ahai, they are the sheath for the fire of the gods
I was looking up "Oswell/Oswald" and "Whent" related stuff to see if I could find anything to tie to the TOJ, and (maybe coincidentally, I would not be surprised if George was unaware of this, it honestly feels TOO perfect to be anything real) there was an India-born British guy named Sir (yes he was knighted) Gerald Arthur Whent. He founded a telecommunications company (Weirwood net anyone? Lol).
🤣🤣
another fantastic stream!!
Ashara Dayne is such an interesting character. I think the man who “dishonored her” was Oberyn Martell(though I will say I kinda like the idea of it being Aerys). Elia and Oberyn were close, as Elia’s lady in waiting she would have known him. We know that she danced with him at Harrenhal and also that bastards are a bit of a habit with him. None of the sand snakes seem to fit, basically their age or their physical characteristics rule them out. I think her baby actually did die (hat tip to the Allyria Dayne theory though) Anyway, the story that Ashara threw herself into the sea, is just that, a story. A cover for her whereabouts and activities, helping raise young Griff in Essos. Likely the Daynes know that she is alive.
The introduction of Ned Dayne in an Arya POV chapter shows that Ned Stark has the respect of house Dayne. Ned Dayne says that Ned and Ashara were in love and that Jon’s mother is Willa who is was his own wet nurse. This he asserts very confidently; it is what he has been told by older family members. They know that Ned Stark is not the father of Ashara’s child, and Willa is the story they put about for him(though I do think that had Jon turned out looking differently they might have covered for him by saying the mother was Ashara). If Ashara had killed herself in grief over the loss of her true love and esteemed brother, one killed by said lover, the absolute best case scenario would be that the surviving family members be understanding of the position that Ned was put into and not vilify him. I can’t imagine they would honor him by naming a new addition to house Dayne after him. What exactly occurred at the tower of joy is not fully known. What happened to Ashara that caused her to “look to Stark” ( which I interpret as turn to for comfort or help) and how he helped also is unclear. Without that information it’s hard to understand the feelings house Dayne has toward Ned Stark, but it appears he had their appreciation. More so than if he had just returned their ancestral sword.
Varys contacted Ashara and told her that he had saved baby Aegon . He knew he could count on her to help keep Elia’s son safe and to take part in the plan to restore him to his birthright. Varys, as he was in Kings Landing, was in a position to rescue baby Aegon. This he did not do, because his loyalty is not to the Targaryens, nor “to the realm”. For someone who claims to want peace for the realm he has caused much chaos and discord. All in service of his goal to put young Griff specifically on the throne? Griff’s training and humble beginnings by no means guarantee that he will be a good king. And why would someone from Essos care? Varys like young Griff is a Blackfyre. Magister Illyrio’s involvement makes sense if young Griff is his and Serra’s son , Serra being a Blackfyre descendant who does not have the name. Indications of this are in Illyrio’s conversations with Tyrion: the name Blackfyre is extinct in the male line, having debts of affection, physical description of Serra, his affection for Griff. ( For completeness sake, Illyrio did say he got Serra from a pillow house in Lys which does remind me of Jahaerys’ wayward daughter Saera, who ran away and became a courtesan in Lys. She had illegitimate descendants of her own, some of whom put forth their claims back in Jahaerys’ day. So Serra as a descendant of Saera is possibility but her being an actual Blackfyre makes better sense for the story given their long history of making bids for the throne.)
Varys and Illyrio did not intend for Viscerys or Danerys to conquer Westeros. It was always young Griff. If there was ever any use for Dany it would have been to enhance young Griff’s appearance of legitimacy. They must not have considered that all that useful. Or else why give her to the Dothraki? Once she had the dragons their plans changed. Now to where we are currently in the story. Tyrion’s meddling has put them on track to clash. And despite that laudatory speech Varys gave to Kevan, Griff has some entitled boy king vibes. If Griff conquers Westeros without Dany he may have a change of attitude about marrying her. With the love of the realm and the pride of victory he could decide he doesn’t need her. He’ll know that by tradition he has the better claim. He may decide to marry Arianne for house Martell support. Dany and her dragons will be essential in the war against the others. She will feel it is her right to rule. And frankly, there’s some logic to that. Isn’t a government’s primary duty the protection of its people? Who better than the person who saves the realm from the long night? Dany already has distrusted Illyrio, how are they going to explain away the disparity between her upbringing and Griff’s? She’s going to find out he’s a Blackfyre, the mummer’s dragon.While I disagreed with the ending of the show(the 180 flip into villainy), a darker and more ruthless side of her could make sense. During her time in the Dothraki sea her visions may convince her to be more blood of the dragon. Tyrion, if he were to become an advisor, may be a destructive influence. The people of Westeros might consider young Griff as the savior who delivers them from endless war and her a barbaric outlander who comes to conquer. If deaths result from dragons (probably should say when not if) she’ll be the one at fault. Whether it was her lack of ability to control them (dragons will be dragons) or she hits some people unintentionally won’t matter in the public opinion. I could see her burning Griff and some of his supporters, a move unlikely to improve her image, but no way she’s going to indiscriminately burn small folk.
I branched out a bit there. In my defense, none of my friends or family are obsessed with ASOIAF so I guess I just had to go off to you folks.
Wasn't wyalla was the nurse maid. But yeah the daynes told so many red herrings about jon it's so funny
Personally I think Jon is Ned or Brandon and Ashara’s kid and Aegon is Leanna and Rhaegar’s kid. I don’t buy R+L = J at all. Also Ashara could be the septa. That would make sense. Given they are in Essos purple eyes are pretty common. Tyrion may not note it for that reason. And the reason Ned would keep that secret is to avoid a succession crisis in the North.
I know this comment should go in a video where you’ve discussed a Dolores Ed (edited, I initially wrote Donald Noy by mistake). But, just heard him say how hard it was to sleep when people keep blowing horns. Another possible sign that the broken horn Jon blew could have been what brought the Wights to the Fist of the First Men.
Especially how it was timed nearly right away in the chapter following the one where Jon found that horn!
“Wait, so what are you saying?”
“I don’t know” 😂 so real for that
"The pages told of Azor Ahai. Lightbringer was his sword. Tempered with his wife's blood if Votar can be believed. Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm. In battle the blade burned fiery hot. Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust the sword through the belly of the beast, its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks, and its body burst into flame."
Jon Snow reading the Jade Compendium.
Sounds like he is killing a dragon. Or tempering his sword in a dragon?
could be, it's pretty vague language tho so hard to be sure
Love when you talk about the Elric stuff but it seems pretty obvious to me that if AA/NK/LH/BE are the same person that their name was Jon Snow. An “evil” name.
The point about the statue being Orion and the sword of the morning and evening;
You mentioned they way a horn is blown from it in the morning and the evening. Two horns, morning and evening. Ice and fire, maybe? Horn of Winter and the burning horn of Dragon Binfing?
Great work as always mr green knight
Ghost could be the scabbard to John Snow's soul (burning sword of fire and ice). Daenarys' Nissa Nissa' heart is sacrificed (either love or literally death) to bring the sword to light i.e. bring John soul back. So Dany is light bringer and John is the light 😅.
In the Saga of the Volsungs, which culminates in Sigfried the dragon slayer, Odin drives a sword through the trunk of a great tree growing up through the hall of Volsung.
Fantastic House Dayne stream LML. And cool to have FeyFire on 😄
I thought Fagon's Septa was Sara Blackfyre, his mom but pretending she's dead to brain wash him personally.
that would be nuts
T.A. Baron's The Lost Years of Merlin! Classic series!
Elden Ring had alien life forms crashing into a world with asteroids and comets 💫
I would be entertained if Ned names Samwell Tarly Sword of the Morning, and Sam's just raking in Relics on his journey back north. 😂
I always thought Lenor was the Septa that Oberyn got pregnant with one of his bastard girls. Figured it was another example of how the Martells were involved with Illyrio's plotting.
Unrelated…Lightbringer, odds the fused oily, black stone’s real life inspiration is the melted stone steps of Hathor?
That song is by Rockwell, MJ just sang some back up vocals.
Could Darkstar also be an foreshadowing of him eclipsing the sun of the Martells? A teenager such as FAegon is likely to believe that someone the same age and as "cool" as Darkstar is a person to look up to & emulate. Perhaps FAegon thinks that having Darkstar in his court is more important than anything the Martells have to offer. Seems mad but FAegon is starting to believe his own hype & taking Storms End along with KL will only add to that.
(Edit)
In addition it wasn't mentioned but another Dawn-Excaliber similarity is Dawn is stored in the stone ie Palestone Sword tower & not just anyone is worthy to wield it or take it from the stone. The sword of the morning title is only given to Arthurian characters.
I think there may have been a Sword of the evening title given to a prior wielder of Dorne who was a lord Dayne that I believe took it without embodying the Arthurian traits. Kind of like what we expect Dark Star to do.
He wasn’t falsely accused Adrianne said she saw him do it. Refer to “the princess in the tower.
The Reed kids would have to know, else-wise Meera being the Lady of the house wouldn’t make sense.
Maybe Arthur Dayne is alive in braavos if the titan is such a strong symbol of the daynes. Him and his sister could be aiding the Prophecy from afar - ashara being quaithe is a common theory already
The Daynes seem have much respect for house stark. I look for them ro show up to aid the starks in the end.
1:27:09 I guess this is where A + L = J came from, though it's much more likely to be Rhaegar, though it is quite odd.
Do you know of any in-text evidence of the theory, either direct or indirect?
High art for a high elf and the highest TH-camr of them all 💨🫶
Tbf, Areo Hotah is a psycho, but I’ve always felt Darkstar is much worse. Darkstar always gives me chills and I feel like the dark things we know about him are barely the top of the iceberg; he strikes me as what someone like Joffrey would have been if he had been born with skill with the sword, courage and charm.
@DavidLightbringer Have you heard of new grange? Its a monument that tells story of conception of spring god Aengus. Ray of light goes into the source of the river on the equinox(dagda affair with river godess boann). Good sybolism picture for you too.
I hope that Darkstar is working with the high hermit (Doran). Especially if Ned Dane is not privy to any of the Dornish conspiracy. Would make a Darkstar and Ned Dane confrontation very dramatic if GRRM chooses to go that direction
Perhaps Uthor just did some renovations? Removed all those dragon-gargoyles (like on Dragonstone) from the walls.
The people: we need a hero to stop this endless night! The Last Hero: I will end it with my sword. The people: what is the name of your sword? Last Hero: Are you ready for this, cuz it's going to blow your mind!
Serwyn = Ser Wyn = Wyn seems to be Welsh with the meaning of "white." White Knight! Knight of Ice? Night King or Last Hero?
Could Ashara be the Reed mom AND Quath at the same time? Who’s to say Moat Calin didn’t leave behind a glass candle once upon a time that the Cranogmen didn’t obtain?
Quath has gotta be someone. If not Ashara then who?
Reed mom has to be someone (too much allusion to be nothing). If not Ashara then who?
Meera the name it self means female ruler, admirable, ocean, peace, among others, light and saintly figure. Meera is seen as admirable, a female rule seeing as she is the next in line and is hidden among the crannogmen. That part of the ocean could be tied back to her mother throwing herself out to the sea when they thought she miscarried.
good comments here :)
Rarely comment but I love your content
you should do an Azor Ahai iceberg maybe /Nissa Nissa to give it bulk but i bet you could make them each their own i feel like it'd be your opus
What if all of the prophecies are actually just about the stars and constellations and planets… and it’s actually a time map riddle. Not necessarily about certain people.
Great video.
Jantar, yantar, Янтарь in slavic languages means amber, by the way, I just couldn't miss noticing that, as your pronunciation was matching perfectly 😅 Dzintars, gintaras in Latvian and Lithuanias, Baltic languages, Gintaras is also popular boy name. Aaand there is Lithuanian legeng about amber castle under the sea, which was destroyed by Perkūnas, god of thunder, who got jealous cause mermaid Jūratė (jūra means sea) fell in love with mortal fisherman Kastytis, and that's how we still find ambers on the seashore 😊 that's more for your squishers theory, or Durrandon, I guess 😅, just Jūratė and Kastytis story did not had happy ending...
excalibur theres only one sword it broke in a fight with lancelot before he became his champion, lancelot was supposed to win but arthur used the sword with his will to defeat lancelot causing it to break when he slashed lancelots armor and wrent it. arthur realizes the error of his ways and throws the broken excalibur back into the lake, the lady of the lake brings the sword back up to the surface reforged. its still the same sword
also the sword in the stone. there are two
I'm not an expert but all the experts say two. it's all myth anyway
@@DavidLightbringer man i must be really gettin old. i was trying to remember it by the movie excalibur that came out in the 80s its been a minute
@@DavidLightbringer your stuff on game of thrones world is excellent too btw i must say. i loved learning about the more mythical magical and lesser known stuff from the books and other parts of the world not shown in the tv series
I hadn't given the Ashara-is-Lenore theory much thought until now. I suppose there is some chance Lenore could be Ashara and Faegon her supposedly-miscarried son by Arys..?
So the Arthur Rheagar Elia Ashara team jamming at night about prophecies it’s kind of the Jon Bran Arya Sansa maybee!!???! Sansa as Ashara and Arya as Elia is something that i see when i read them!?!? So maybe Septa Lemore is Elia???
What about R + L = Jon & Meera? Has there been any conversation about twins by R & L?
I know Ned + Ashara = Jon has been quite soundly rejected (& with good reason), & therefore Ned + Ashara = Jon & Meera is also not sound, but I’ve not heard the possibility of Lyanna having twins discussed.
To be clear, I’m aware this theory has been around for a looooong time, but it seems to have dropped off; also, I should say, I’m not the biggest fan of “what if” theories that don’t have any solid proof in the books; however, the physical & temperamental similarities between Jon & Meera are striking. Furthermore, there’s quite a lot of circumstantial support for this theory: Reed & Ned were incredibly close, so Reed fostering one secret twin while Ned fosters the other is a plausible parallel; Meera protects Bran as Jon would while traveling north (& the North is the home of all three); Meera loses Jojen, who in this theory would certainly be considered her brother regardless of actual genealogy, but gains another “brother” in Bran in the sense that Bran is Jon’s brother in all ways that matter; she also loses a brother (Jojen) but gains an actual brother in Jon; lastly, Jon & Meera make a markedly stark (pun intended) contrast to the only other prominent twins in the series, Jaime & Cersei. One set of twins is light in coloring but dark in character, the other set is dark in coloring but light in character, etc etc etc.
GRRM also has avoided the twins-trope rather distinctly (& for all his claims of subverting fantasy tropes, he’s 100% the worst abuser of them); so why has GRRM thus far only introduced one twin-set that’s hugely significant to his story?
Yes, I’m aware other twins exist, most recently the Cargyll twins of the Kingsguard Erryk & Arryk have gotten some extra attention from what they do/will eventually do in “Fire & Blood” & HotD respectively, but they’re insignificant thematically compared to Jaime & Cersei. The same goes for every other set so far introduced: the Redwyne twins are more or less comic relief, Tywin’s dad had twin brothers (the Lannisters have a lot of twins through the generations), Daemon Blackfyre had twins Aegon & Aemon, but again, these & every other set (thus far) other than Jaime & Cersei are at best footnotes in history. Given GRRM’s penchant for trope-indulgence, regardless of his claims to the latter, I find it curious he has largely avoided over-using this one trope after he beats the hell out of so many others.
Lastly, it would be one helluva twist if Meera turns out to be Jon’s twin by R & L, & unlike so many other theory-twists, this one definitely would not be world-breaking.
In the oldest stories excalibur is in the stone. Later versions changed that. I dont know of any historical texts mentioning "little brown people" in the Arthur legend.
But maybe I just missed that one. There are a lot of false informations out there claiming to be of ancient origin but is in fact a modern invention or outright fanfic.
There is some truth in it, the first Europeans had brown skin tones.
Btw. I can trace my heritage back to the first europeans thanks to my Y Haplogroup belonging to a subclade of I1a.
love that bird lol 🦜
Kings guard you spoke off sleep's with his Ave is it the guard who looks after Prince Dorane, we saw in the show
Is Marcela still in Dorne
Why does it make sense thematically for Jon to have a Dayne Sword when he has earned Longclaw? Then what happens to Longclaw?? Also why wouldn't Ashara tell her brother?
didn't I explain that exactly? Jon should have Dawn, because it was the original Ice, carried by a Stark last hero. Longclaw will go back to House Mormont, since Jon never thinks it really belongs to him. I literally said all this
Wait, did you say Faegon needs a Faurther?
basically
No bs. You could totally do an LML riff of Darkstar bass heavy and I’m sure GD Will support. Darkstar!
“rest in paste” NOOOOOOO 😭😭
jk that was perfect, dammit 😆
I sleep with my ex too....ohhhh you said axe...
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🗣”Many worlds I've come since I first left home.”
Does Nissa Nissa count as a magical scabbard?
in a very dark sense perhaps but only for that one moment
Psychic powers aren't sci-fi, they're psy-fi. 😃
brilliant
What does iceberg mean when talking about theories