if you're wondering about seeing double, this is a re-upload. noticed an audio issue in the first release that i had to resolve back in the editing software, so i ended up having to re-export and re-upload. thanks for your patience and i hope you all enjoy the video! - alastair
I wish I could give this video a thousand likes, it's excellent. So many people view Pentiment as a mediocre detective game instead of a game about history, religion and society. I don't know much about the history of this part of the world, let alone German or Latin languages, but I love this game because you can feel the thought and care that was put into it, even if you don't know exactly what is going on at times. It's such a shame that it sold so few copies and that it basically doesn't exist on TH-cam.
I've waited so long to discuss about the game with my partner because for me, the detective game is just an excuse. Who do the deed isn't important, the true subject is the fear of do the wrong choice, regrets. Andrea is full of hesitations and fears to do the wrong choice and regret it, during all his life.
If Ursula is encouraged to learn pagan traditions and Otilia is still around to teach her in Chapter 2, then in Chapter 3, she will explain to Magdalene that she met travelers who used some of the same language, and Magdalene can deduce that they were Swiss travelers, which unlocks an option for the mural to show the villagers emigrating from Switzerland to settle Tassing.
Utter applause from me. I graduated with a History degree and took two classes on topics relevant to Pentiment- one on the Early Reformation and one on Catholicism in Ireland which had overlap with what occurred with the main reveal. Pentiment's dedication to historically based narrative/worldbuilding was on full display and I utterly loved!
Incredibly watchable. Very well produced. Super interesting. I learned a lot from the game yet still learned so much from the video. I actually own Eco's The Name of the Rose but haven't read it. Kind of glad I hadn't before playing and now I'll definitely check it out!
I’m so glad I randomly downloaded this on game pass. It blew me away. You’re so correct about all of it, I was rather confused at first but the Middle Ages setting and the choices you can make and the historical references just made me keep playing. It took me quite some time to realize I was playing a murder mystery game and I loved it. Loved the whole game. Currently doing my 2nd play through as a rapscallion for a few achievements. Won’t stop until I get all 1000 game score.
When you said "listen to this" in the german section, yt cut to an advertisement and it's Ryan Gosling doing a mint mobile ad. F me, I was paying so close attention, lol. Then i come back to conan!
I played this game several times. Probably still have a couple more endings to do. Loved the layers upon layers of the story. Thank you for looking into the history that the story takes place in.
Thinking of you, Ludi- hope your illness is being as non-problematic as possible. Just wanted to say that I can't wait for your next Final Fantasy retrospective, and that I really enjoy your specific take with its focus on mythology and etymology
58:55 Formal "Ihr" is commonly used in shows with a historical or fantasy setting. We would never use it in everyday conversation, but we are used to hearing it from movies and shows. What you rarely hear is the formal "er" for "you", but that ended up getting used ironically to talk down to people, and nowadays sounds funny.
Should be noted that in the "Die Gewalt die Ihr gelitten hast" note, they mixed up the Ihr and du forms (and not really a good verb choice) - 'Die Gewalt, die Ihr erlitten habt' OR 'Die Gewalt, die du erlitten hast'. The -in suffix is occasionally still used with surnames in Bavarian, by the way, "'d'Huaberin" would be Ms Huber (but only used for a third person reference, not for addressing someone).
Perchta and the salt mine also have a connection with the Celts. There are strong indications that she is a vestige/mutation of some older Celtic or Germanic goddess (or a combination of two or more) in the same way that a similar folklore figure in Italy called Bafana is a vestige of the Roman goddess Strenia. Also, the figure on the ceramic disc Magdalene finds inside the mine is clearly inspired by panel F of the Gundestrup cauldron a very famous Celtic religious artefact. The specific panel doesn't depict human sacrifice but another panel (panel E) on the cauldron does and the Celts did have religious rituals that involved human sacrifice. The fact that you find the disk in a salt mine is not incidental either. There are several salt mines around the Alps that were in use since the Iron and Neolithic age and had a very important role in the local economy during the time of the Celts and later the Romans. The most famous one is the Hallstatt mine which has over 1000 prehistoric burials and has given its name to an entire Protoceltic civilization that lived in western Europe from 1200 to 500 BC
all really interesting info, thank you for letting me know! funnily enough i actually saw the gundestrup cauldron back in 2016, there was a temporary celtic-inspired exhibition at the national museum of scotland that i went to, but i hadn't remembered the details of it well enough to make that connection - looking at it now though, i completely see where you're coming from. really impressive knowledge on your part, i appreciate you sharing it with me! thanks for watching, hope you enjoyed the video
@@Ludiscere I loved the video, really well produced and researched! I tend to focus on history in games and not the mythology/religious elements so that was a part of the game's references I missed. By the way, since you asked about the significance of Mars and Diana murals in the Mithraeum. Syncretism was a thing in antiquity and it was common to see various gods of different cultures worshipped in the same place. This applies also to Mithrea, where you could find references to gods like Abraxas, Oceanus, Saturn or even Jupiter. But the specific reference in the game I think has more to do with what you mention in the video. The worshipers of Mithras in the game's temple have some sort of antagonistic relationship with Mars and Diana and Sol Invictus. And here is where the game loses me a bit because in antiquity the idea of a new god aggressively replacing or wiping out the worship of the old was unusual. Normally old and new gods would coexist and be worshipped side by side for centuries before one would slowly replace the other and that goes for Mithras as well. I think that this is one of the rare times that the game is a bit clumsy and on the nose in making its point.
thanks, that's very kind of you! for the mithraeum syncretism issue, you might find this interesting: twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1689790955128573952 - josh sawyer posted about this on twitter in response to my questions about it in the video
@@Ludiscere So pretty much the inscriptions were supposed to be antagonistic to Diana and Mars. I don't agree with that sort of on-the-nose approach and as Josh Sawyer says it is fiction. In antiquity, people usually viewed these gods as different flavours of the same things worshipping all of them at the same time (as a way of having all their bases covered).
I just finished Pentiment last night, fantastic game even if i rushed it a bit in the end. Thanks for making a video on extra details i missed. one of my favorites i caught on stream was the Character Brother Sebhat. Before even talking to him i called the fact that he was likely from Ethiopia as it was a wealthy Christian holdout kingdom that was otherwise surrounded by otherwise Muslim kingdoms etc. There were few Christian Kingdom in Africa by this point so there was only really one choice for his character. You should play A Plague Tale or Pillars of the earth if you haven't you'll sink into those histories/mythologies.
They also use 'Ihr' everywhere in the German localization. I'm playing through it right now as my second playthrough and to be honest it's a bit jarring at times, like if the English version used thee and thou! I grew up speaking German but not too surrounded by German media, so I hadn't encountered it before I started playing DnD with a group of Germans, who use it all the time. I find it confusing to use, so I made it a feature of my lower class bum character that he says 'du' to everyone from children to kings!
Excellent video btw I watched it shortly after the initial upload and learned a lot :) Not that i'll ever play the game though, but I'm a sucker for an essay :D
Interesting you show Else there at 53:53 when discussing the German surnames. Else's maiden name is Caviezel, which is not a German, but a Romansh name. The inclusion of Romansh was really interesting to me as a whole - Ottilia's chants were Romansh, according to Ursula.
yeah, I just used that footage because they were talking about names and showed Andreas’ surname, but you’re totally right - this was one of things I researched but never ended up discussing in the video! it was cool to see it included, if only briefly, and the conversation you have with Else about her name was also really interesting
You probably answered this before but i need to know. Have you ever thought about making a video on Persona’s franchise, or maybe just a specific game?
56:46 I have traced my ancestry back to a Dutch man who moved to Manchester, England in the 1200’s and they used to spell the i with Y’s in the Middle Ages. Not for feminization but for the surname. This rather surprised me to see my last name turned into hipster gen Z baby name spelling.
The Romans did not "steal" greek gods. Romans and greeks are indo european, and all indo european cultures believed in the same pantheon, they just had different names for the gods in that pantheon in their own languages. Even the Slavic and Nordic pantheons are hierarchically the same as the Roman and Greek, because they all come from one place.
This makes me angry. This happened in real life in many different instances, and I can't help but think how enlightened we'd be today had the thrall of religion been broken way back then. The theocracy knew, oh THEY KNEW, but they destroyed the truth to maintain power over the people.
if you're wondering about seeing double, this is a re-upload. noticed an audio issue in the first release that i had to resolve back in the editing software, so i ended up having to re-export and re-upload. thanks for your patience and i hope you all enjoy the video!
- alastair
I'm glad you did. I saw the first notification and skipped it, but when it popped up again today I went "ok I'll watch". Wonderful work.
Pentimento.
i just wish it take place in pillar of eternity universe, such a waste of world building potentials
Get you a man who looks at you the way Ludiscere looks at mythology in video games
Get a woman..
I wish I could give this video a thousand likes, it's excellent.
So many people view Pentiment as a mediocre detective game instead of a game about history, religion and society. I don't know much about the history of this part of the world, let alone German or Latin languages, but I love this game because you can feel the thought and care that was put into it, even if you don't know exactly what is going on at times. It's such a shame that it sold so few copies and that it basically doesn't exist on TH-cam.
I've waited so long to discuss about the game with my partner because for me, the detective game is just an excuse. Who do the deed isn't important, the true subject is the fear of do the wrong choice, regrets. Andrea is full of hesitations and fears to do the wrong choice and regret it, during all his life.
If Ursula is encouraged to learn pagan traditions and Otilia is still around to teach her in Chapter 2, then in Chapter 3, she will explain to Magdalene that she met travelers who used some of the same language, and Magdalene can deduce that they were Swiss travelers, which unlocks an option for the mural to show the villagers emigrating from Switzerland to settle Tassing.
That’s really neat, I’ve played the game a couple times but didn’t know about that
Utter applause from me. I graduated with a History degree and took two classes on topics relevant to Pentiment- one on the Early Reformation and one on Catholicism in Ireland which had overlap with what occurred with the main reveal. Pentiment's dedication to historically based narrative/worldbuilding was on full display and I utterly loved!
nice touch of having Artemis searching for frogs next to the shrine of Diana.
Ooh, good catch
Incredibly watchable. Very well produced. Super interesting. I learned a lot from the game yet still learned so much from the video. I actually own Eco's The Name of the Rose but haven't read it. Kind of glad I hadn't before playing and now I'll definitely check it out!
I’m so glad I randomly downloaded this on game pass. It blew me away. You’re so correct about all of it, I was rather confused at first but the Middle Ages setting and the choices you can make and the historical references just made me keep playing. It took me quite some time to realize I was playing a murder mystery game and I loved it. Loved the whole game. Currently doing my 2nd play through as a rapscallion for a few achievements. Won’t stop until I get all 1000 game score.
When you said "listen to this" in the german section, yt cut to an advertisement and it's Ryan Gosling doing a mint mobile ad. F me, I was paying so close attention, lol. Then i come back to conan!
Wonderful work! This video deserves millions of views
I played this game several times. Probably still have a couple more endings to do. Loved the layers upon layers of the story. Thank you for looking into the history that the story takes place in.
Pentiment was awesome, I can't wait to find the time to watch/listen to this!
just incredible. came looking for the source of melancholia and pantagruel in andreas's recollection, came out with so much more
Thinking of you, Ludi- hope your illness is being as non-problematic as possible. Just wanted to say that I can't wait for your next Final Fantasy retrospective, and that I really enjoy your specific take with its focus on mythology and etymology
58:55 Formal "Ihr" is commonly used in shows with a historical or fantasy setting. We would never use it in everyday conversation, but we are used to hearing it from movies and shows.
What you rarely hear is the formal "er" for "you", but that ended up getting used ironically to talk down to people, and nowadays sounds funny.
Great video but I’m surprised you didn’t cover Prester John and Saint Grabian!
Should be noted that in the "Die Gewalt die Ihr gelitten hast" note, they mixed up the Ihr and du forms (and not really a good verb choice) - 'Die Gewalt, die Ihr erlitten habt' OR 'Die Gewalt, die du erlitten hast'.
The -in suffix is occasionally still used with surnames in Bavarian, by the way, "'d'Huaberin" would be Ms Huber (but only used for a third person reference, not for addressing someone).
oh nice, new one! for some reason youtube didn't show me this one smh.... a fun little surprise when i look up this channel manually lol
I’ve never even heard of this game let alone played and still I found this fascinating
Such a good video, was perfect watching after finishing the game
What a phenomenal video and accompaniment to the game. Thank you!
Perchta and the salt mine also have a connection with the Celts. There are strong indications that she is a vestige/mutation of some older Celtic or Germanic goddess (or a combination of two or more) in the same way that a similar folklore figure in Italy called Bafana is a vestige of the Roman goddess Strenia. Also, the figure on the ceramic disc Magdalene finds inside the mine is clearly inspired by panel F of the Gundestrup cauldron a very famous Celtic religious artefact. The specific panel doesn't depict human sacrifice but another panel (panel E) on the cauldron does and the Celts did have religious rituals that involved human sacrifice. The fact that you find the disk in a salt mine is not incidental either. There are several salt mines around the Alps that were in use since the Iron and Neolithic age and had a very important role in the local economy during the time of the Celts and later the Romans. The most famous one is the Hallstatt mine which has over 1000 prehistoric burials and has given its name to an entire Protoceltic civilization that lived in western Europe from 1200 to 500 BC
all really interesting info, thank you for letting me know! funnily enough i actually saw the gundestrup cauldron back in 2016, there was a temporary celtic-inspired exhibition at the national museum of scotland that i went to, but i hadn't remembered the details of it well enough to make that connection - looking at it now though, i completely see where you're coming from. really impressive knowledge on your part, i appreciate you sharing it with me! thanks for watching, hope you enjoyed the video
@@Ludiscere I loved the video, really well produced and researched! I tend to focus on history in games and not the mythology/religious elements so that was a part of the game's references I missed. By the way, since you asked about the significance of Mars and Diana murals in the Mithraeum. Syncretism was a thing in antiquity and it was common to see various gods of different cultures worshipped in the same place. This applies also to Mithrea, where you could find references to gods like Abraxas, Oceanus, Saturn or even Jupiter. But the specific reference in the game I think has more to do with what you mention in the video. The worshipers of Mithras in the game's temple have some sort of antagonistic relationship with Mars and Diana and Sol Invictus. And here is where the game loses me a bit because in antiquity the idea of a new god aggressively replacing or wiping out the worship of the old was unusual. Normally old and new gods would coexist and be worshipped side by side for centuries before one would slowly replace the other and that goes for Mithras as well. I think that this is one of the rare times that the game is a bit clumsy and on the nose in making its point.
thanks, that's very kind of you!
for the mithraeum syncretism issue, you might find this interesting: twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1689790955128573952 - josh sawyer posted about this on twitter in response to my questions about it in the video
@@Ludiscere So pretty much the inscriptions were supposed to be antagonistic to Diana and Mars. I don't agree with that sort of on-the-nose approach and as Josh Sawyer says it is fiction. In antiquity, people usually viewed these gods as different flavours of the same things worshipping all of them at the same time (as a way of having all their bases covered).
You should do the mythology of Tetris next.
I just finished Pentiment last night, fantastic game even if i rushed it a bit in the end. Thanks for making a video on extra details i missed.
one of my favorites i caught on stream was the Character Brother Sebhat. Before even talking to him i called the fact that he was likely from Ethiopia as it was a wealthy Christian holdout kingdom that was otherwise surrounded by otherwise Muslim kingdoms etc. There were few Christian Kingdom in Africa by this point so there was only really one choice for his character.
You should play A Plague Tale or Pillars of the earth if you haven't you'll sink into those histories/mythologies.
They also use 'Ihr' everywhere in the German localization. I'm playing through it right now as my second playthrough and to be honest it's a bit jarring at times, like if the English version used thee and thou!
I grew up speaking German but not too surrounded by German media, so I hadn't encountered it before I started playing DnD with a group of Germans, who use it all the time. I find it confusing to use, so I made it a feature of my lower class bum character that he says 'du' to everyone from children to kings!
Excellent video btw I watched it shortly after the initial upload and learned a lot :) Not that i'll ever play the game though, but I'm a sucker for an essay :D
Great to see another one of these!
Thank you for making this!
Interesting you show Else there at 53:53 when discussing the German surnames. Else's maiden name is Caviezel, which is not a German, but a Romansh name. The inclusion of Romansh was really interesting to me as a whole - Ottilia's chants were Romansh, according to Ursula.
yeah, I just used that footage because they were talking about names and showed Andreas’ surname, but you’re totally right - this was one of things I researched but never ended up discussing in the video! it was cool to see it included, if only briefly, and the conversation you have with Else about her name was also really interesting
I am a Chinese player and your video is really great
HE IS BACK
You are my favorite youtuber
pentiment is the kind of game, that were it not made so recently, we would teach it in schools
DJ Flula is an international treasure.
fantastic video, makes me appreciate an also fantastic game even more
Hey you’re the guy I subscribed to because FFIV is my favorite game. And I never even watched the video yet!
56:10 small correction, not postposition but a suffix, even the screencap from Wikipedia at 56:20 uses this term.
You probably answered this before but i need to know. Have you ever thought about making a video on Persona’s franchise, or maybe just a specific game?
i love the persona games so this is absolutely a possibility at some point, but i don't have any immediate plans to do so
Lovd these videos!
because of you, i played all the snes FF games, and i sincerely thank you for reccomending such wonderful games! =D
An excellent video!
Dang. I really want to watch this, but your spoiler warning made me wana play it first...but my backlog is way thick right now. Decisions. lol
55:41 Do Icelanders have surnames? I thought they only used patronyms.
Ok. Fine. I'll be back in a while.
56:46 I have traced my ancestry back to a Dutch man who moved to Manchester, England in the 1200’s and they used to spell the i with Y’s in the Middle Ages. Not for feminization but for the surname. This rather surprised me to see my last name turned into hipster gen Z baby name spelling.
What a game
The Romans did not "steal" greek gods. Romans and greeks are indo european, and all indo european cultures believed in the same pantheon, they just had different names for the gods in that pantheon in their own languages. Even the Slavic and Nordic pantheons are hierarchically the same as the Roman and Greek, because they all come from one place.
🎉🎉
❤
What that historical fictions got that catholic symbolism 😏
This makes me angry. This happened in real life in many different instances, and I can't help but think how enlightened we'd be today had the thrall of religion been broken way back then. The theocracy knew, oh THEY KNEW, but they destroyed the truth to maintain power over the people.
what are you referring to here, how various ancient cultures were wiped away?