BIG Changes in Army Building in 9th Edition Warhammer 40k
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2025
- NOTE: At 2:53 Matthew says that your entire army is restricted in that it can't share the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari, or Tyranids. What he meant to say is that in Matched Play each DETACHMENT cannot just share those keywords. This hasn't changed since 8th edition. Sorry for the slip up!
Matthew goes over the big changes on how you build lists in Warhammer 40k 9th edition.
The Image of the Command Points from 8th edition is from an article on Goonhammer:
www.goonhammer...
At 2:53 I say that your entire army is restricted in that it can't share the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari, or Tyranids. What I meant to say is that in Matched Play each DETACHMENT cannot just share those keywords. This hasn't changed since 8th edition. Sorry for the slip up!
I agree with the whole, multiple detachment thing. The exception I make are armies where the traits only benefit 1 unit. For example 1k Sons only get a spell, a relic, and a warlord trait. They don't get an army wide bonus like everyone else. In those cases I think it's fine.
As for how it will affect my army, not at all. I brought 2 Batallions for the CP, but I could easily fit everything into 1 Batallion. So less paperwork I guess.
YOU'RE FIRED! I'M UNSUBSCRIBING!... How dare you make a mistake!
@Sergio Georgini depends on what game you agree upon with opponent, whether to go by point limit or power level. but each army need to be measured by the same.
Man, this CP and detachment stuff is getting out of hand since the end of 7th and beginning of 8th edition. I like the classical Horus Heresy approach: Fill your army slots to build the legion force up to the required point level, mostly ignore the second possible detachment, don't be heavy on keywords, mostly skip the magic phase, don't use a card deck to remember stuff (is this Magic the Gathering, or what?) and throw template pie plates at each other.
Not having the ugly-buggy, the Starcraft command center and Primaris is another bonus. And yes, there are Xenos now and additional units provided by the community.
Also: leather books with better artwork.
@Sergio Georgini You play a game at a set point or power limit eg a 1000 pt game or a 25 power game then look to the chart and see how much cp and what mission type relevant to your set point or power limit, if you are using points you dont have to worry about your armies power and vise versa
The lack of soup really hurts chaos in general where it was nearly a must to be competitive. Heck it was even fluffy and now it's a no bueno. Here's hoping GW will show the daemons and summoning some love and expand some of these chaos rosters!
Never understood why they separated CSM and Daemons...it's ALL Chaos!!! Summoning daemons should be a big thing for CSM imo...
@@HighlandPhoenix money. Same reason they've ripped Harlequins from Dark Eldar and split apart all the little subfactions in the Imperium that weren't guard or space marines. They can sell more books and that's as much as they care.
Sorry that was a mistake. I meant to say that each DETACHMENT cannot share just the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari, or Tyranids, unless they also share another faction keyword. Sorry about that!
@@PatriotArro Yup! Shame. But for CSM and Daemons I think it's worse as they should go hand-in-hand (or codex-in-codex as it were...).
On the one hand I agree that GW should've done something to curb the soup, personally I don't like the whole souping from the same faction for different subfaction bonuses thing, but yeah maybe they could've penalized it less because it shouldn't completely get rid of soup especially things like CSM and Daemons. I think GW wasn't expecting the new system to completely turn everything into single-detachment armies like it's looking like will happen right now, I think they thought people would be willing to pay the CP costs and it would just be a reasonable trade off people would be willing to make(I think this is a lot of why they made it 12 CP + 1 CP per turn baseline). Hopefully as the edition ages that's something we see happen more.
I bet that The Eight, the Silent King and Abbadon will get the Supreme Commander keyword
That really makes the most sense.
Logan Grimnar
Dante, draigo, and the other chapter masters as well maybe? Here's hoping.
@@Donnyjohnsonbooks Named chapter masters should qualify as well.
The eight? Interesting. I was thinking shadowsun and farsight since they are the leaders of their factions, I hadn’t really thought about the eight
Im pretty excited about the changes. I don't have much of a collection so I'm stuck with patrols. Now I actually have enough CP to play around with stratagems
A really good example of why this is such a great move.
What kind of army do you have
@@tgrier3858 I just have the start collecting box for tau and some extra fire warriors. Don't worry I have no interest in riptide and shield drone spam
Space Marine Player: Hey, GW, need some help here. Start of 8th and I'm not #1.
GW: Here goes bolter discipline, shock assault combat doctrine. Have fun.
Space Marine Player: Can I have some more?
GW: Mono bonuses for all of the Space Marines.
Space Marine Player: Primaris?
GW: Oh, forgot. Here's some more.
Space Marine Player: I don't get as many command points as everyone else. I only get 13 with double batallion, but that guard player has 15. It isn't fair.
GW: Everyone gets 12 now, and you only need 1 batallion.
Space Marine Player: I have trouble moving up the board.
GW: I'll make it smaller.
Space Marine Player : That Ork looked at me funny.
GW: Here are blast weapons, and now they lose half of their unit during the morale phase if they pull out the wrong models.
Space Marine Player: I don't like it when it charges me.
GW: No more long multi-charging and now all models have to be within 1/2 of an inch to be in combat instead of 1 inch. And they have bigger bases now.
Space Marine Player: Space Marine: I lost to an Eldar player!
GW: Anyone that makes soup lists or multiple detachments gets less CP. No more shooting for flying units that fall out of combat. No more -2 or -3 to hit.
Space Marine Player: People play Dark Eldar and Harlequins.
GW: Massive points increases to Wyches, ravagers and venoms; and we're going to make the first Harlequin character ever and make it Imperium only.
Space marine Player: New primarch?
GW: Maybe for Christmas, Daddy's busy right now, but here's some new terrain rules. *aggressively writes increased points across the board for Orks and Tyranids.
The only point you missed on is the horde comment. Yeah you could lose half your unit if you pull casualties from the centre of a long string, but why would you do that except to game the rules as you could in 8th.
Actual morale is even more irrelevant in 9th than it was in 8th. Even if I shoot 25 of 30 Ork boys from a unit they will in all likely hood lose 1-2 models max from morale.
Hordes are definitely stronger in that regard.
As an Eldar player, this hurts :(
@@Mathenaut Played a game yesterday. 7 of my Guardmen got shot. I failed morale. Then one dude auto ran and the other 2 passed because they only run on a 1. Previously in that same scenario a roll of a 1 would of been 1 model, 2 would of been 2 models, 3 would of been 3 models.
I wouldn't even consider a commissar anymore as morale is so irrelevant.
It's like you are in the conference room.....
i thought melee range was still 1 inch, maybe i missed something or they changed it back
NO BUENO! haha I got a good chuckle out of that. This was super informative Matt & Gang. I started late in 8th edition so the sudden change was daunting. Hopefully this edition gets an extra year or two to not have to worry about re building an existing army.
I hadn't thought about the problems with the additional detachments - this is really going to set back my Astra Militarum army with different regiment detachments...
I'm in the same boat. I loved different regiment for different roles. It's gone now :(
it's the reason i haven't been exactly enthusiastic for AM in 9th edition. not only did the points on a lot of the roster go up, making a lot of the roster bad for it's cost, but the flat command points means guard are on average going to be starting on less command points then they had before and guard tend to prefer bringing two or more detachments. so now guard are starting at 9cp with mediocre stratagems while custodes are up at 12.
Personally i think the detachment cp cost should apply when you're souping units from a different faction and just have no penalty for when you're just using multiple regiments from the same army. everyone's touting how they love the new detachment rules because it gives them more freedom for their list building. but, for factions like IG & GSC it actually has resulted in LESS freedom. the detachment rules haven't been made better, they've just flipped who they favor. small elite armies used to suffer from cp while big multiple detachment armies flourished, now small elite armies flourish and big multiple detachment armies suffer.
@@anderslundtoft2315 It's not gone, Soup just got nerfed. I think it's fine, I still plan on doing Ad Mech-Sister soup.
As a Space Wolf and Farsight Enclaves player, I tended to do a lot of Hero Hammer. So the cutting down of detachments does change up my lists and how I approach that.
Starting space wolves army no codes yet, you feel they are viable?
thanks for releasing this series of quick videos showing the major improvements between the editions
Thanks for the great video! I'm starting warhammer 40k in 9th and I had trouble building my army. Keep up quality content like this!
"No fun allowed, unless you're playing Marines. Then you're allowed moderate fun."
Hi guys I’m getting back into 40k from 5th edition, for me the changes are huge and a big learning curve now, could you do a how to play video?
Check out Play On Tabletops vid, from a fellow 5th Ed returning player 👍
Play SKITARII
Good vid! The first one that I have seen that doesn’t assume (even if accidentally) that we are all porting from 8 to 9! Last time I played 40K was 2nd edition.
thankfully the loyal-32 cp farm is gone. it got really boring to meet them everywhere
Yeah, it's sad that the worst offenders of that are now being rewarded and those who played straight Guard are the ones taking it on the chin.
@@boggycreekmonster6857 I mostly play straight Guard(before quarantine). I have been working on a Baneblade, but well there wasn't much point to bring one before and you could at least make it semi workable with the supreme detachment and make it probably not die T1 with the hull down (can't remember the name) tank ace ability. Now Baneblades are an active hindrance to building an army and, unlike a pretty much any super heavy, are not worth the points no matter how cool they look.
@@boggycreekmonster6857 Somewhere lower down I saw a guy with a brilliant idea to have some kind of cp cost(probably 2-3 cp) to add 1 LoW slot to the warlord's detachment and I think that would fix a lot that is wrong with LoWs.
I play guard and I agree, it sucked making a fluffy or cool list, then feeling forced to fit in a battalion of infantry just for the 5 cp
@Kai Houston And you pay 2 CP for it, which is fine, really.
So the T'au Stormsurge is just hit huge and cannot use the same T'au sept as the other detachment unless i bring 3 Stormsurges???
Splendid video. I was a bit confused about how it all works, thanks for clearing it up.
Amazing work with these video series, incredibly helpful to try and trow our own 9th edition games
I think it's great - creates a level playing field for CP and encourages balanced, well-rounded army composition.
I disagree, brigades are less favourable now, meaning that we will see less lists made up of all battlefield roles, not to mention it takes away from the "list building" aspect of the game which i previously loved, it's a shame imo, I'm still gonna run my brigade though. Glad to hear someone is enjoying the changes though.
Yeah sounds a blast 🙄
There are nerfs to tau, BA? Lol ... you’re just making noise I assume.
@The Black Knight @The Black Knight well blood angels are most certainly not a BS army, secondly, the tau are already in a bad enough position, with supposedly being the Premier shooting army of 40k yet armywide have the BS of a Goddamn guardsman. Ntm to mention the fly nerfs have just brought us back to the days of triptides
@@jasonnorris3292 Their guns hit like trucks though
One thing I hope comes out is some factions getting the ability to take a second at a lower CP cost. Chaos Marines paying a little less for a Daemons detachment or Imperium being able to take a full Inquisition detachment a little easier just seems fluffy.
Thanks for keeping us updated man. Overall I do quite like the new rules and welcome the changes.
Especially the command point changes they really help me!
some that i can see gaining the Supreme Commander keyword would be like those characters that can be added to any detachment and not interfere with detachment rules or seen as in lore as the "main leader among leaders" . some examples i can think of would be Shadowsun for tau, Ghaz for orks, Abaddon for chaos, Silent King for necrons, Inquisitors, Yvraine, Swarmlord (even though he does have ,), possibly Dante (being regent of Nhilus).
I see people like myself taking an extra patrol detachment so they can bring more hqs.
Especially for armies like blood angels, space wolves and chaos space marines.
I can also see people who play tempestus scions taking patrols of normal gaurd so they can access things like leman russes and other things normal guard would provide.
I heard Drukhari are also an exception in that if they bring 3 Patrol Detachments and the other 2 are of their other sub factions (So one each of Kabal, Coven and Cult) they get the CP costs refunded as well? As someone else mentioned in the comments, hopefully they do something like this for Ynnari as well as their detachments become Reborn, but are still different keywords, which you might as well just be bringing the original faction with the rules as they are.
Where does one find that T-shirt???
Internet.
Love it
You guys still have the Greatest intro ever IMO.
I need that T-Shirt in my life... Great video as always. Can't wait to get my hands on the book tomorrow.
What about Warlord traits that add CP before the Battle outside of the turn structure like Hand of Dorm (Imperial Fists)?
"Before the battle, if your army is Battle-forged, roll one D3; you gain a number of Command Points equal to the result."
I assume that'll work normally, yes?
Btw, good to see up and about and on point again, MWG Matt!!!
Yes, those still work as usual. And thanks!
Some interesting changes to CP, excited to give it a go!
My one buddy with orks is super spicy about this and in general about the orks point changes. He loved bringing 2 or 3 detachments.
Pretty much all of my current lists run 3-4 detachments so I can get everything in without issue....this will cause me problem in the future so I'm not a huge fan, but I'm fairly certain I can work with it. These imperial armies aren't gonna renegade themselves you know!
*Looks at this comment*
*Reaches for the Ordo Hereticus hotline*
"I would like to make a report..."
I like the pacing of the video, good job! I just got back in the game, thanks!
I actually do not like seeing the supreme command gone, I was building a space marine detachment with heroes so it was more like the lore.
In my case for AM, with the price of the lesser Baneblade variants it was very easy to slip in some more Tank/Company Commanders into my list, and also bring along a Stormblade with sponsons. Now I'm stuck with superheavy aux, if I don't just throw up my hand and look into making a Brigade work with 2 Battalion's worth of models.
It makes some armies that really on lords of war such as wraithknights and storm surges prity bad in comparison to other types - unless riptide is a lord of war?
I just put 3 keepers of secrets together, don’t even know how I’ll use them all in the same army now due to the other components of my army
Thanks Matt, i like the new rule set, looks like they're trying to keeping the shenanigans out of it.
That's good for some armiea but gsc is gonna be so different
Lmao 9th will not reduce shenanigans
@@LastStar007 will just have to wait and see.
I like how CP batteries are no longer a thing. Always hated taking useless troops just to get decent CP.
RIP Stormsurges, after drop kick after drop kick, GW decide to put on the spiked boots for the final drop kick.
Then the giant reaper chainsword bisects the power walking battleship just for good measure. They were never taken and were just shelf models. Now the cost more, require 3 CP for bringing one. And the only good strategm that could help it, doesnt effect it because its titanic.
Don't know whether this was mentioned but Drukhari still gain benefits for multiple patrols I think it was "if they included 4 patrols they gain x amount of Cp"
3:35 3 Armiger Waglaives, all with meltas, go for 447 points on 8E. Haven’t seen the point increases for knights on 9E, but it would need to be over 17 points per knight to stop them from deploying an ultra heavy detachment. It seen like wargear have mostly decreased in price though, most of them going to 0 (pehaps an attempt to remove the granularity from points play so people have no reason to not use Power play, given the largest complains right now is that Power rating don’t adjust to the wargear of the unit?), I’m willing to bet meltaguns actually decreased in price, giving even larger of a marging for the knights, proper, to increase in cost.
The Armiger Helverin (now that vehicles can just shoot at CQB so it is not stupid to bring a full ranged knight) goes for only 10 points more than the warglaive if also given meltaguns.
All in all, it should be perfectly phisible to deploy 2 warglaives (no meltas) with a helverin (w/ melta) in a patrol game.
Hm... how many $ is an armiger again?
I’d been waiting for this video.
As a long term vaulter who is just returning to actively playing this is invaluable. Do you have a video like this for Age if Sigmar?
you forgot one more game type: DGAF, we're gonna use points but play the way we want ;)
@MWG Studios Hi @7:00 you said that if you take a super heavy detachment if you're warlord is in it you'll get the command points back either 3 or 6 but it said that command benefits are none?? Thanks for explaining all these new rules (y)
Not sure if its been covered. Drukhari.... they have an army special rule for patrol detachments. It doesnt change the detachment or its benefits but generates cp in a different way. How will that build up do you think?
A point where more detachments might be required is - slots. For specific factions you want more HQs ... than available in a batallion for example. Did Luka lent you a T-Shirt by the way?
I was planning to buy a knight to go with my AdMech, purely because i like the fluff of the infantry being it's ground support. So i find it a shame that that has been so heavily penalised.
Sorry that was a mistake. I meant to say that each DETACHMENT cannot share just the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari, or Tyranids, unless they also share another faction keyword. Sorry about that!
@@miniwargaming This is much more understandable now. I still wasnt getting it with the explanation above. Im doing the same thing with a super heavy detachment of 2 Preceptors and 1 warglaive as the super heavy and 1 Enginseer, 2 Dominus, 1 Vanguard (10 man squad), 2 rangers (5 man squads with 2 arquebuses each for pesky characters), 2 Onager Dunecrawlers. I was going to put my warlord in the ad mech portion but i guess for the least command point cost ill need to put them in the Super heavy? Knights are titanic yes?
I'm now thinking I could get 3 more command points by going with a 3 point unit of ad mech. Dumping the crawlers and replacing them with two armiger helverins to fill out my super heavy. Hmm....
At 7:37 you're discussing Dedicated Transports you said "every other" transport...I think you meant 1 Ded Transport for ea infantry unit?
Somewhat upsetting news for some Tau armies in matched play.
The Eight, they drain half your CP (in 2k), they lose army benefits, and any other detachment you bring just costs you more CP with no refunds.
Stormsurges: Just lost army abilities unless you buy 3, which is a steep price at nearly 200$ a model; also drain your CP.
That's rough man, gotta get my hands on those matched play rules before thinking about this anymore.
Wouldn't mind betting that the eight gets the supreme commander keyword, and so can go in its own detachment and give you extra CP.
Doubt it, since even in 8th they would cost CP. At the very least they should say they still get army abilities and only cost 3CP.
Who knows...
@@MrBadgers but those cp were for the artifacts they had. guess we'll find out tomorrow (or whenever the faq comes out)
I'm excited to learn how this affects Ynnari.
6:50 - You say that Knights get their command points refunded if the Warlord is a knight, but I don't see that stated on the Super-Heavy Detachment card at all. Is this exception listed somewhere else, and if so, where?
Also, where does it say that the Fortifications, Auxiliary and Superheavy Auxiliary don't get faction detachment abilities?
That is a rule specific to them.
MWG Studios thanks for the insight, also curious where this is stated on the 8th ed codex? Or other part of the 9th ed core book?
I am glad with the whole points change. I got so used to having so few points and now I am going to have a ton.
10:30 Yes, I did very much like getting Born Soldiers on my Shadowsword. RIP, old Supreme Command. :(
I think a lot of these changes are very good as I agreed with you that some stuff, like dark eldar flyer spam was abused, and now it would cost you command points. The only thing that I feel is a little steep is the price for the Special detachments like the Vanguard, for example for people that like to bring three assassin, or the 3CP for one Superheavy. I'm hoping some codexes will have rules maybe making this cheaper, for example if the Vanguard detachment of 3 assassins has the Imperium keyword in common with the Warlord of the other detachment, maybe bringing it down to costing 2 CP? And the same can be said for the Superheavy Auxillary, I'd hate to pay 3CP just to bring a Lord of Skulls into my Black Legion army, and I have a World Eaters list that will hate to pay 3CP just to bring their Spartan Assault tank. We'll just have to wait and see.
I think instead of detachments like your example of tyranids getting one detachment that is good at shooting and one that has benefits for close combat, they will do the create your own hive fleet/craftworld..... and choose the ones they want and be able to maximize things (I saw an eldar that took the ranger one for -1 to hit outside of 12" and then the ability for all wraith constructs to re-roll to wounds of 1 and it was a mostly wraith army....)
I think that a super heavy from the detachment that lets you bring one should still get faction abilities if it is in the same faction as your warlord
I'm a big fan. Weaknesses are as much a part of a faction's identity as its strengths. If you can negate those weaknesses by cherry picking only the best bits from various factions to make your soup then you also negate the character of your own faction.
Largely, I agree. But I also think that soup has been a big enough part of the game for sufficient time that some factions have been balanced with their capabilities specifically as a component of soup in mind, rather than their capabilities as a mono-list (eg Guard, whose comparatively weak stratagems are balanced against their comparative buckets of CP and Loyal32, or the Raven Castellan that was nerfed in everything but its statline based on its performance in accompaniment with usually _multiple_ CP battery detachments), so some rebalancing is likely to be necessary as 9th progresses (of course, whether GW will acknowledge that need, or its magnitude, is a different story altogether).
I dont like soup in 40k, but there are some factions that require multiple detachments. Tau and Dark Eldar are almost required to bring multiple detachments. Tau need it because of the limit of 1 Commander keyword unit per detachment. While Dark Eldar need multiple detachments because they have 3 subfactions in their codex.
I'm all for this. These rules really lean into quick games which will be great for tournaments.
Thanks for the clear up Matt
Well actually you get more command points out of this method.
While brigade brought +9, battalion +3, the 3 smaller ones (vanguard, etc.) +1 each.
With the limitation accordingly the same as in ninth there was the max of around 12-13 command points for a 2000 Point game.
That is if you can bring a brigade, a battalion and one of the smaller ones. (since a patrol brought 0 points).
So instead of doing small squads to fill up the list, you can just go as you like and build for the most efficiant squad size.
And to bring more detachments is based on the ongoing benifit you get from it.
Like you said: shooters with their bonus, melees with their bonus etc.
If that bonus is weights more than the command points you spent, then I guess it will be taken more often.
And with all the other changes, I will definetly try out some of the rules from psyhic awakening (which are not obsolete because the abilities have become rules in 9th)
It balances it out for sure, but some armies definitely saw a decrease (mainly Astra Militarum of course).
@@miniwargaming
Well thats nice to know.
But since I dont play them, I missed that point.
But overall I am looking forward for that change.
Lets see how long it takes for someone to break the game.
I think you missed the most important aspect of supreme command. (THis is an example, to illustrate) You can have a Ultramarine Patrol, IG Brigade, and RG. RG refunds the points for the guard, not the ultramarines...
Wasn't there an errata or something for drukhari that lets them field multiple patrol detachments for basicly no CP?
Yes, if you bring 3 patrols as a Dark Eldar you gain 4 CP, the price of the 2 extra Detachments.
What do you mean by the fortification network doesn’t get the detachment’s abilities (10:10) ? Did you mean faction’s abilities? So for example, my two sporocysts won’t get my custom hive fleet’s two adaptions, etc?
8:50 meh, a SM company is composed of a Cpt. 2 Lieutenants, and are very likely to deploy with a psyker and a chaplain (at least that’s how I used them), now I will need to drop 2 of those, or say my lieutenants are actually some other units (champion/judiciar and ancient, which are both elites) might be a good “hey, this is my lieutenant, he counts as a judiciar”, but still...
I believe this will be a major problem for Blood Angels, whose firstborn “apothecarys”, the Sanguinary Priests, are also HQ, not elites like in the other armies. So, yeah, you will need to chose some important HQs to be left out.
Space wolves are the same our "wolf priests" are HQs
So did anybody else notice that the superheavy detachment costs 3/6 points, and he talked about getting a refund if your warlord is part of it, but the posted image of it literally doesn't list any command benefits like the standard detachments that do refund the cp cost?
That’s a specific rule in the Imperial Knights / Chaos Knights rulebooks. You wouldn’t get those refunds any other way.
Really liking the changes in 9th edition, big changes for the positive. Brings the game closer to something akin to a modern miniatures wargaming rules set for the 21st century. My buddies and I usually play with Apocalypse 2019 rules because of the alternating activations (a more modern system of activations that both Star Wars Legion and Song of Ice and Fire use). But 9th edition had so many positive rules changes we are actually going to use the 40k rules for a Crusade narrative campaign, albeit with one change: We will be using alternating activations just like you can in Apocalypse and Kill Team already.
I would like to see some Tyranid terrain turn up, maybe something that chucks out billions of spores like a venomthrope or a tunnel network between two pieces so troops can move around without being shot off the board (but having to come out in predictable places...)
I like the changes, with my Black Legion I used to run a battalion and a vanguard but Im sure I can squeeze 2000 pts into a single battalion, with my Warlord giving me 12 cp for rerolls , strats and overwatch
I hate it. I ran a fluffy Ork army that was supposed to be a bombardment division clearing the way for the infantry, featuring four planes and six mech gunz with some boyz and a weird boy HQ. It certainly wasn’t optimized for winning, but it was fun. Now it’s nerfed even more.
My only grumble is the change to Supreme Command. Imperial Guard needed a LOT of heroes to function, I was running Tank Commanders and Company Commanders at full stock in 8th. The vehicle changes probably have made the tank commanders not as needed en mass but it's severely nerfed hero-needy armies like that. Add in I was also running a Stormblade through the old Supreme Command and now I'm stuck with only Superheavy Aux and I'm a tad sad.
You must just be playing fluffy casual games against noobs. CSM get hit very hard by the force org changes (which I have long lobbied GW for but not in this way). CSM legions have cool abilities but they are divided among the legions so you needed to take a at least a couple of detachments to get access to the tools that EVERY space marine chapter gets. CSM can be fixed with a complete codex overhaul but with CSM 2.0 GW has shown they really dont give a shit.
@@Internetbutthurt Drukarii ain't looking much better. In 8th they were actually encouraged to take multiple detatchments of patrols, each led by an HQ of one of the drukarii subfactions. I got no idea how they're going to make that work in 9th with how few drukarii models are per subfaction.
@@gratuitouslurking8610 yes i agree. There are a few mow tier armies that this hurts, putting them further behind the 8-ball. Their codexes need to fix that
Very helpful video explained in great detail. Thank you.
It's a bit of a pain because I was going to make a Chimera hive fleet, with 3-sub-fleets representing different heads.
Now, I did think it was a bit broken that I was rewarded for having the versatility of multiple hive fleets, with basically 10 Command Points. Though it did cost me in that it restricted my army a bit by forcing me to have 6 HQ and 9 Troops.
I'm basically going from having 18 CP to having 6 with this change...
I'm still going to do it though, I like the mythical Chimera, and the flavor this concept brings to my fleet.
But costing 6 CP to do i seems a bit high, I think 4 would be fine.
Maybe they can balance the other hive fleets to make them more desirable, Kraken seemed to dominate.
They need to be near as beneficial as the extra artifact or extra troop adaptation, especially if they're going to cost 3 cp...
It's gotta sit between "must pick" and "never pick"
It's worth noting that a detachment only has to have ONE keyword in common again. I mean, you'd be giving up your faction doctrines and bonuses, etc. But you theoretically can.
Also worth noting that the 8th edition rules are gone which said "different patterns of russes all count towards the rule of 3" same for heavy weapons squads and krieg heavy weapons squads.
That is true except in Matched Play, where they specify that that keyword cannot be Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids, or Aeldari.
@@miniwargaming good point. The bit about russes and heavy weapons teams still works, though!
Another exception is dark eldar, they can take 3 patrol detachments and still get the full 12 CP
Really glad they made that adjustment, though disappointed that if you’re below 2000pt games you either give up your obsessions or cut yourself off from parts of your army (Kabal/Cult/Coven). Still, excited to see what this does to lists overall. Not my cup of tea, but this also means that aircraft are something that Dark Eldar do quite well, since you’ll be able to fit more into a list than usual without sacrificing CP.
@@Anaxiamander Theres plenty of wiggle room. Any point value you set between 1001 and 2000 still gives you 3 Detachments and 12CP. So you can play 1200, 1500, 1750 pt games and not miss out on anything.
ArawnNox I had misunderstood then, thanks for the clarification!
Im just getting into 40k so 9th edition is gonna be my introduction. I wanna know in reinforcements cost points towards your army, as far as I can tell they don't. I wanna summon my daemon prince in my combat patrol with typhus as my warlord.
I like the new system, however, I do think the costs for detachments will get FAQed fairly quickly or the costs of some pre-battle stratagems will get reduced as taking multiple detachments plus using stratagems at the moment would be very expensive. For example, for a 2000 point match, playing death guard, I would normally take 3 detachments, battalion, vanguard and outrider, giving me 10 command points, I would then spend 3 for extra relics and spend 1 on a plague company specific stratagem, leaving me with 6 command points. Then some might get spent on deployment options. I never saw 6 command points as being a lot.
Now under this system, doing the same thing would cost me 10 command points, 9 (with 3 refunded by warlord) for detachments and then 4 for pre-battle stratagems, plus more for deployment options. Meaning I'd start with 1 or 2, not a lot of wiggle room for using stratagems throughout the battle. Which is odd seeing as one of the promotional points regarding this edition was the inclusion of more command points and command point usages.
Either some of these stratagems will have to reduce in cost or some of the more sideline detachments will need to come down, such as outrider and vanguard costing 2 instead of 3 and patrol costing 1.
I used to do the old Forge World Armored Company Army list. Can’t tell if the rule of three has killed that for tournaments
As a guardsmen I will still probably keep bringing two detachments. The first and main will be catachan jungle fighters with flamers
The second will be militarum tempestus
I am liking these changes as CP wise because it makes sense lore wire. I never understand how an Ork army could have 15 CP and a Custodes are have 3 CP.
As a Dark Angel player is is also nice as I can use all my strats without taking detachments (again, makes sense lore wise as well).
As a drukhari player the only thing I heard is that now I'm not allowed to take my 3 patrol unless I'm playing 2k point, wich goes against my army special rule, but then again since the 8th edition codex came out they got nothing but massing nerf and it's looking like 9th edition will continue the thread....
The core book specifically talks about primarchs and deamon primarch. Is this possibly an intent of bring/giving some that have not been seen... like Rus or Fulgrim sculpts?
Multiple detachments for my Space Marines were explained that they are a Successor Chapter. So they were painted the same but had dedicated shooting and vehicles while the next Detachment were dedicated fast attack. Now my Chapter lost brain cells or something, because they no longer have dedicated Detachments to different phases of combat without losing the ability to command them as they used to. As for my other Armies like Chaos Daemons, I guess my Slaanesh Daemons no longer get along with my other Slaanesh Daemons?
While you can justify almost anything, I always saw the Chapter Tactics as a FACTION wide buff, not just a detachment wide stuff. The fact that shooters are good at shooting is already built into their datasheets.
I was in progress of making my first ever 2000 point army (Raven Guard) when the change to 9th edition happened. Now the list I was making costs too much and I have no idea how 9th edition affects the codex supplement stuff like RG. *sigh*
So under strength squads. That screws over meganobs if you build one of them as a Mega armour mek. Because they still havent released it seperately.
Very Well explained ! So good 👌
tbh the change to the supreme command is good for me as a Ultramarine player the thing was that with how rules for the marines are worded you use alot of army rules in an ausxillary detachment and with the new rules i can bring a primarch without bringing 3 characters other characters and the warlord still gains their rules and that without needing to waste cp
Yeah nice for the smurfs as always, but now Guard have another reason not to bring a Baneblade.
How are the extra gene stealers brood brother detachments affected.
While I enjoy most of the changes I really really hate the restriction for amount of Detachments as for my Drukhari it locks out 2/3 of the codex at 500 and 1/3 of the codex at 1000 points. Having detachments cost command points would have been restiction enough for my taste.
Personally, I think the detachment CP cost should only apply when you're souping units from a different faction, and just have no penalty when you're using multiple detachments from the same army. People have been touting how they love the new detachment rules because it gives armies more freedom to bring what they want for their list building. like when Mathew mentioned how he liked that Josh was able to bring a patrol of custodes and not get punished for it. however, for factions like Imperial Guard & GeneStealer Cults it actually has resulted in LESS freedom as most of their army set ups don't fit into a single detachment. now guard CAN't just bring what they want, at 2000pts they either are forced to bring hellhounds or sentinels or be penalized a 3cp loss for bringing what they want. the detachment rules haven't been made better, they've just flipped who they favor. small elite armies used to suffer from cp while big multiple detachment armies flourished. now, small elite armies flourish and big multiple detachment armies suffer.
it's not better, just alternate.
I'm all for anything that punishes Tau players for taking multiple detachments just to squeeze in more commanders.
@@bobsickle2336 even if it hinders many of the other factions? i understand wanting to limit spamming, but the cost of 3cp for many factions is required in order to play your army. i just don't agree with ignoring the factions that are actively suffering from the new detachment rules just because you don't like tau bringing extra commanders. the point of the change was to allow more freedom in list building for factions and supply everyone with more CP. instead it's just punishing large armies for even existing.
@@bobsickle2336 how about letting us have decent BS then? We are supposed to be the Premier shooting army of 40k, cause god knows our melee is trash, yet army wide we have the BS of a Goddamn fresh guardsman, yet veterans get Bs 3+. Not to mention with the changes to fly they are dragging us back to the days of Triptides being the only thing that the tau are known for. That shit is awful, makes me sad, and its why even though its incredibly difficult to do i'm trying to run a balanced infantry based tau. Which is Goddamn hard to do with BS this poor.
Poor baneblades (and other imperial guard super heavy options) .... Getting no traits for it and costing the CP make the already over pointed model just not worth bringing. I wish they would have instead had the aux super heavy detachment as "Pay X CP, this ADDs ONE super heavy slot to your warlords detachment".
This is a much better idea and it helps the tau out as well since I guess their super heavy is in a similar boat.
I think this and the new terrain rules are the greatest improvements over 8th edition.
Thanks for the Video. Good work. Bit I have an question: So If you have less detachments means that that you will see bigger Units because you can't split them without spending command Points? If that's the case we will not see many different Units on the board or?
To be honest I’m not sure. The Brigade detachment still allows for plenty of units to be put on the board, so you can still field lots of units. You’ll just be a bit more restricted on the battlefield role of the units you bring.
Soooo my ynarri army just got boned as well as any eldar army that runs one wraith knight
I think Ynnari need some heavy FAQing because it makes sense to bring a detachment of the 3 Reborn factions in the same way Drukhari bring their 3 sub factions.
@@ArawnNox yeah dark eldar hopefully will get a faq because the limit on the number of betallions hurt the bonus that mitigates taking a bunch of patrols to help with their sub faction of wych kabal and coven stuff
@@dakrulz5568 As I understand it, Drukhari have been given an update. If you take 3 patrol detachments you get the command points refunded.
@@ArawnNox but I was talking about the limit on formations being a problem because they cant hit the 6 patrol benchmark or take a mix of harlequin craftworld or ynnari
@@dakrulz5568 Ah I see. Yeah, beyond maybe FAQing Ynnari detatchments, I doubt it. They seem pretty adamant about the new detachment limits.
Most codexes already excluded Auxilliary Support and Auxilliary Superheavy Detachments in 8th. Battle Sanctums don't get my Order ability now? Aw....
I'm somewhat concerned for GSC because these changes really seem to hurt an army that is apparently already struggling. But I also intentionally pick "bad" armies anyway, because my first foray into 40K was an unbreakable win streak with my Space Wolves and that got boring, so I'm also somewhat excited. Either way it won't change how I want to play Tau or IG so I have that going for me, which is nice.
Hey Matt, you stated that only for the regular three detachments you get a refund of the CP if the Warlord is included. But with the Super heavy Detachment you also stated to get a refund if you include the Warlord into this Detachment. Is this correct? Sounds squishy...
Thank you for the great explanation
That is only the case for Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights, not for anybody else.
While I can make my Emporers Children army into a perfect single 2000 points battalion...I would be tempted to add a Patrol to add some extra HQs who honestly are worth more to me then 2 command points..BUT sadly due to the points increase of units now...I cant afford them without removing units that also play key roles in my armies overall tactics...
My current army now has Jump pack Lord with Combi-Plasma and Black Mace, and 2 x Jump pack Sorcerers with Force Staves and combi'-plasma...I had to choose 2 Sorcerers because psychic powers like that provide 5+ feel no pain, move twice, +1 to hit , removing invonrable saves..and the various mortal wound stuff too...is just so tacticly useful..
But I will miss
The Dark Apostle granting +1 to hit on a 2+/3+ to near by Noise marines..
The Combi-melta Warp Smith, who was a fun, cheap, anti tank threat..that always did something cool in each battle he was in..
And the Master of Possession who was great for buffing my 'Sonic' Oblitorators (a game winning unit who could shoot better and get a 4+ deamon save with the MoP near by)...and even my Blob of Spawn (who are far better then cultists as meat sheilds with toughness 5 and 4 wounds each, who also tear apart primaris scouts in turn 1 with ease) and 2 squads of Mutilators (who are pretty reliable Turn 2 and 3 distraction/ combat units when buffed with Emporers Children traits and stregems)...
I’ve never heard of detachments so this is a hole new world for me!😂
How do unaligned units work? Not the fortifications, but the models from say, Blackstone Fortress, etc.
What about the Genestealers Cult command point farming model... I forget the name... how are they going to rewrite him?
I wonder who at games workshop looked at all those non-knights lords of war and thought "These are too good. People should pay a hefty CP tax to even bring one, and then they shouldnt be allowed to have a faction detachment benefit unless you sacrifice half of your startig CP and points to bring at least 3." and then didnt even grace them with a reasonable points adjustment.
I really wish my wraithknights and hierodules could so something other than collect dust for a change.
Absolutely! As an Admech player I’m kinda screwed as half my army is knights right now. They’re in my freaking codex! Why should I have to pay 6 CP to use half my army? It’s ridiculous
@@thare1774 Make a Knight your warlord, fill open slots in the detachmet with an extra knight(s) and/or some armigers and then take an admech patrol detachment.
Mik Low I’ve considered that, but I’m not sure I’d still get my Canticles with a knight warlord
@@thare1774 You still get the normal canticles but not the ones from engine war.
Another great video Matt, keep it up! Please...
So now we can only get 1 cp a turn period, so the command phase when you add up how many objectives you control doesn't give you cp anymore.
I am confused so if you don't but a battalion you can't use the strats for that detachment, like Speed of the Raven, or Seatgwing assault.
I love most of the changes in 9th, the only thing that is frustrating me is having a max of 3 HQs for my Orks, I'd normally bring a Brigade plus a Spearhead or 2 Battalions, the HQs are so important to keep the army functioning.
Plus having less CP than normal in such a heavy CP usage army is going to take some getting used to
The Ynnari were already in a bad spot but now if you want to play the way they are supposed to with a detachment from each Eldar army, they’re face down in the gutter.
I'm hoping for something like they did for Drukhari where if you take them as 3 patrols you get the points refunded.
ArawnNox that would work perfectly!!! We can only wait and pray now :p
I personally don't like the rule about the understrenght units. I am a beginner and that rule "penalizes" the people like me, especially because I started this hobby with warhammer conquest and that gives you understrenght units (for example I have 3 blightlord terminators and I can't use them)
Can someone explain to me WHY you can't bring an under strength unit? If you don't care that you're under strength and your opponent, presumably, doesn't care then why do the rules care?
Not sure how this will affect the list building for Tau considering the Tau commander Restriction. The rule should be removed imo since you can no longer take 9 Fusion Coldstars anyway which is why the rule was introduced.