@@panzerschliffehohenzollern4863Ehh. Floodgates in general can be splashed into most problem decks too. Especially if it's a trap. Even if it's a spell you just activate it right before you end your turn and you're good. So... They're gonna put 4 negates on board and summon limit on top, have fun.
@williamfalls exactly why people want it banned right now. It's being played in the side board as a going first tool. Nothing more annoying that facing down a snake eyes fire king board, thinking you might be able to play through, and then having a summon limit flipped on you two summons in.
I feel like I got back into ygo at the worst time. First there was tear 0 and then kash and now snake eyes. Id rather play against full power floo because at least they have hard choke points while snake eyes is like “so anyway I started summoning”
@@bulbinkingI feel like Jame is right though. Compared to tear or Kashtira not even Flamberge is particularly oppressive. All the cards that make SE oppressive are outside cards where with Kashtira ariseheart and the other you can shut down entire strategies and make it impossible for the opponent to play. Tear seems like a lot of fun, if you play against it it just feels like none of cards does anything and cards like called by the grave which should be the perfect counter are made utterly worthless by the ishizu cards that every tear deck uses, this makes it so that you're forced to counter tear with actual floodgates.
I feel like "what's a tuner?" is a very common question, so to put it in magic terms I think a keyword best explains it: "Tuner (sac this creature and at least 1 other creature, put a synchro type creature on the battlefield from outside the game with a mana value equal to the combined mana values of the creatures sac'd. You cannot sac other creatures with Tuner for this effect.)"
It feels bad that original harpy lady and Harpy’s feather storm are two of the five cards shown for the Harpy archtype, while snake eyes gets Diabellstar as a free 6th card. Showing Cyber Harpy lady as a boss monster and Harpy channeler or hunting ground would make deciding which is better between blackwings and harpys more interesting.
Snake eye only got the free 6th card because they were reading Diabellstar cards without knowing what it was, so I felt it was unfair to not give it to them lol
@adamk7203 the reason why those were chosen is so that it was easier to tell the power of the deck around when it first came out (or at least I think so). Then it would make sense as to why the newer BW support wasn't shown either
@@Kayze330 yeah, i get it. I think that makes sense. It's just too hard to imagine anyone falling for it bc those cards are just such ass. I'd like to see a future ep with some great cards in the old archetype and a new archetype that's awful
@@Kayze330i would agree if there wasnt a period of time where harpies were a legit good deck(when they actually got archetypal support and not just the anime cards) that only got better every time they got support. Two of the cards shown havent seen play in either a decade or two decades, and there are so many more cards that are better representative of what the deck is supposed to do.
Ok this episode is like that Mr. McMahon meme. Love these lads, and their excitement literally ramps up through the video. The realization of "the harpies were never good" is hilarious
Not to "well actually" you but Harpies did have tops in the ycs vegas format of 2014 before battles of legends with the hands and soul charge. Jeff Jones was topping with it, probably like the 5th or 6th best deck in that format. Love the content, sorry if it comes off as a nitpick I don't mean it that way. I just have been playing this game for 20 years so I like to share some stuff I was there for :)
I play Blackwings and never thought to Nothung the way it was said 😂😂 Definitely saying his name Not Hung the Starlight to get peoples reactions hahaha
@@ak47dragunov Ikr the most absurd part is how most decks in the current meta today needs cards in the grave badly and ishizu alone would be in every deck. Voiceless voice, runick variants, snake eyes, fire king, and sky strikers would be hurt badly by it.
@@galaxyvulture6649 not really. In masterduel, kash only has some consistency hits, and people just play snake eyes with a kashtira engine; and they don't even run ariseheart.
@@ak47dragunov If actual yugioh accelerates to a point where we can just unlimit all the ishizu tear cards, it will be insanely stupid and horrifying. The deck in a no banlist format absolutely dunks on everything else, even with all the other decks having access to all the banned broken cards. Ishizu Tear is just that far beyond everything we've seen and that which we would ever see. The only decks that can some time beat it in no banlist was Dragon Links that specifically got rulings so they could use Victory Dragon meaning it only has to win one duel in a whole match, even then Ishizu Tear outperforms it by far.
"your brain has gotta feel so big and full of curves when you play this deck" ... nowadays i feel like my opponents brain is tiny and completely smooth when i see snake eyes.
I just loved how they praising harpies at the third card while not even seeing the good ones. Edit:but it seems kinda obvious to guess what is what, when you show the worst cards of the worst deck, combo extenders of the deck that once was good and the endboard of the strong deck.
Aww man, I wonder what their reaction would be if you showed full armor master, being that huge unnafected brain control on legs, who can also boardwipe.
There are much more relevant cards to show for harpies and blackwing. Most harpie decklists don’t play phenix formation, and few play sisters, or just as a one-of. Showing the starter (channeler) and the payoff (cyber slash) could have been interesting. Same thing with blackwing : showing a banned card and onibimaru as the “boss monster”, and no actual good normal summon was a strange choice. But still, the video was great, as always
Onibimaru especially. I don’t think Blackwing players have ever used that except in the most niche decks. And once Full Armor Master - and now Assault Dragon - came out, Onibimaru’s been completely outclassed
I like the progression of "wow harpies seem pretty nice" to "oh wow harpies were never good." also the immediate realization after reading 2 snake-eyes cards that snake-eyes is insane as hell is amazing, their literacy levels are already better than most of the yugioh playerbase
I think one fun idea is having MtG players look at 3 archetypes that were the prime of a format and then having them guess which one had the largest impact as a whole.
When you showed Poplar I instantly died laughing. I was not expecting that. But then again, what else could you show that is good "right now" if not Snake-Eyes. I also love how their reaction to why Poplar is busted was so on point they may as well be Joshua Schmidt talking. Very insightful for MTG players. I have a suggestion, though. Maybe it would be cool if once they lock in their answers you show them recordings of Master Duel replays of the ideal turn 1 of each archetype (sped up, of course). If it would take too long you could just show them the turn 1 of the best deck.
I actually did this with them, but it didn’t make it in the video for time and pace reasons. Patreon patrons get the full unedited version where you can see their reactions.
Bro, that Snake-Eyes jumpscare. We went from Harpies to Blackwing, so I was expecting something like Branded that might look kinda bad until you put all the pieces together, but the Poplar jumpscare made me legit laugh out loud. Love these Archetype rating videos btw. Would be cool to see Icejade as a bad deck that baits for a good deck.
im not sure if cameron realize that the synchro mechanic isnt some archetypical gimmick exclusive to blackwings, feels like he ironically came to the right answer for the wrong reason
This was a relatively easy trio of archetypes to analyse, but it was still really fun to watch. Letting them think Harpies may have been good before showing them modern card design™ was a wonderful idea.
Harpies saw a good amount of play in 2013 after the dragon rulers got hit for the first time. People experimented with them before anyone figured out a good list without the baby dragons. Channeler gave harpies easy access to the insanely powerful rank 7 pool and hunting ground gave them a consistent, inherent way to clear their own vanity's emptiness
@@devdog007 the rest of the people there must have played like vanilla level 1 monsters only... how in the heck do you lose to a harpie lady player. They only have trash. I don't care if you can magically XYZ summon Number 11: Big Eye... They're still trash. The Zombies from 2005 are insanely better. I'd off myself if I'd ever lose to Harpies. It's ridiculous... Just thinking about how Quasar was still a thing, back then, I don't care how good you think that shite garbage archetype was, Stardust Dragon should beat it with ease. There were so many decks that won on turn 1 already.. and you people claim that a slow af archetype that can't do jack shit is good.
@@livedandletdie Fire Fist and Mermails were the tier 1 deck at the time, but Harpies frequently topped in late 2013 - mid 2014. Remember the question the video asked them to name which deck 'was never good', which is absolutely not true of any deck they showed.
This really proves why a bit of foreknowledge is necessary going into these things. At least the basics (show them a modern yugioh mat so they figure out the 5 monster/backrow + 2 EMZ setup and make assumptions, "pay attention to when a card mentions type/attribute vs when they mention a specific archetype" so they can ask important questions that you can tease them over like the amount of cards in a specific grouping, banish vs banish face-down since from what little I've caught on about MTG exile is essentially a no-touch zone, and the fact that unless a card specifically says "you can't play cards except x" you can shove a billion generic end-board cards in because there's no mana restrictions).
I don't know if you'll ever see this, but I think having magic players try and solve yu gi oh puzzles would be fun. Like show them a board state and say, "you have everything you need to board wipe and win"
Wondering if you could do a just-for-fun episode sometime where you show MTG creators the different Yugioh rarities? See if they can guess if an Ultimate Rare is more expensive than a Starlight! Would probably have to be done in person or over a video call for full effect, since the rarities don't show up well in photography.
I will never get enough of Magic players squinting to read the text on YGO cards. Btw, to any MTG players in the comments, are these guys competitively strong players? Or moreso solely content creators. I ask bc their analysis was honestly pretty good. They had a good read on a lot of these despite having no frame of reference
I watch their podcast and love their energy! I think they play in actual cEdh tourneys and do well. Tyler, a guy in their play group, won one the other week so they aren't just content creators. Imo they are quite knowledgeable and provide a balanced analysis instead of hot or reactionary takes. Totally recommend them if you want to get into cEdh!
I'd like to see you show MTG players cards that are banned, cards that were banned and have since been unbanned, and cards that have never been banned. Also, have you ever shown any MTG players Mystic Mine?
I loved their thought process, you know they know their card games by getting so much right about all the decks and seeing the increase in power from deck to deck.
I think this video is a really good "Intro to YuGiOh in 15 cards", which seems to be one of the primary goals of this series. It's also very cool to see a new player figure out synergies between cards. If you ever want to really get a guest with an archetype, I think picking an archetype, that sees a lot of cards and makes a bunch of plays, but without any real payoff (like Mayakashi or Flower Cardian) is a very good way (though it's difficult to make that feel fair). Alternatively I think it would be interesting to see new peoples takes on archetypes, that don't swarm the field, but create a lot of value (like Sky Striker or Spellbook/Prophecy).
54:31 I know you don’t pay too too much attention to the state of yugioh and mostly focus on magic, so to answer their question: the deck is currently tier zero and has been since the release of Poplar, and the majority of the yugioh community wants SOMETHING in the deck banned or limited (arguments about exactly how to hit the deck because literally every card in the deck equals every other card so it’s hard to lower the power level without outright killing it as a whole)
I think giving guests example cards from different archetypes with similar effects (search, destroy, banish, etc) but with differing costs and conditions might be a nice idea for them to compare and give scores.
Love the Harpie representation! I played Harpies in my kids league back in the day "around goat format" and won almost every week. Harpie Hunting Ground was brutal back when MST was limited to 1. I later moved on to Warrior Toolbox and won literally every week.
28:46 Could be cool to have a Synchro that modulates its Level while in the Extra Deck. Also, if you think Onimaru is good, check Red Supernova Dragon (usually as big but all the time, also can't be destroyed and is a boardwipe on legs)
the funny thing is flamberge dragon isnt even the payoff of the deck, snake eyes literally doesnt even have an in archetype endboard boss monster. the actual payoff is ip sp and princess and apo and baronne. the strongest payoff card shown is feather storm which is a searchable card that for literally ANY other deck in the game would read: Instant - 0 mana: Win the game.
See, Harpies are a bit of a weird thing historically. Deck used to be a somewhat alright rogue option, mostly because they were a somewhat decent rank-4 spam deck and that was kinda all they needed to be to stick around for a bit. And then they basically didn't get meaningful support for like, 4 or 5 years and by that point, yeah they were basically nonexistent. Also feel like noting that Harpies were really, *really* good in Duel Links for a bit, but at the same time, it really doesn't take that much for something to be a meta super-threat in Duel Links.
A clarification: Snake-eye is an extremely expensive TIER 0 DECK, there is no better deck or decks that can compete with it. Yes, we do want some of its pieces to be banned.
I think it would be cool if possible you could show what the end boards for certain decks are so they can determine if they're good, broken, or mid for another video. Some good examples could be turbo decks that have strong boards only if they aren't seeing any interruptions, labrynth which only sets backrow that are crazy, 60 card paleo zoo bc joshua schmidt lol, 60 card branded (helps to show how deck size isn't everything and you could trick them), tear, and then prime kashtira board. Then for lols you could show them the blue eyes fusion that has 3 negates on board and that new fusion that also has three negates (it was used by those green and orange twins in the anime).
This feels like an unfair representation of Harpies. The archetype actually saw competitive play once upon a time, and even saw a few tops. They might not have been top meta, but they certainly weren't garbage.
@@picasso2559 Seeing competitive play once upon a time and seeing actual successes isn't something I'd call garbage. The original Harpy Ladies are yes, but their legacy support doesn't rely on them at all. Garbage would be something like Roids or Red-Eyes, or if you really want to push that definition, something really super rogue like pure Dragonmaids on release.
Yeah I 100% agree. I felt this way about how Dark Magician was represented too, with Soul Servant and Magicians Souls being left out. Now, with the first 3 harpie cards being never used and the last 2 not being true archetypal combo pieces, it really made harpies look like trash even to fresh eyes. I appreciate him explaining egotist, but Perfumer/Chaneller/Cyber Slash should have been on this list.
Only thing that was wrong is that people are absolutely wanting Snake-Eyes cards to be banned, there's not many people who are happy with this format at all and most people are sick of it
Weird choice of cards for Harpies and Blackwings in this one. Maybe Showing Cyber Slash lady, Channeler and Perfurmer could make a better impression. As for Blackwings Full Armor Master is like the "Noob bait" card, also showing Simoon who is the premiere combo starter for the deck. Snake-eyes cards are so obviosly overpowered in comparison. Really nice video, bring this guys back.
When I saw you gave them a snake eyes card, I screamed. And rhe fact thsy they IMMEDIATELY saw how good it was just tells you all you need to know about the deck.
This episode was great! I was laughing when the first monster of blackwings was 100x better than the harpies and they were so sure harpies were decent.
Ah, I haven't played Yugioh since 2013, but Harpies were one of the decks I took to tournaments. I always preferred the 'rogue' decks. I've played off and on casually with Harpies recently since they have even more new-ish support. Their archetype isn't bad, but it's just not good enough to keep up with the actual meta decks. I remember back in the day, going into Lightning Chidori was super strong since it gets around "cannot be destroyed" effects. Hysteric Party usually resulted in a win if you were allowed to resolve it for a full field. But no, like you said, they did get good stuff later on, but it was just behind the curve on the timeline. Let's be real, As I previously said, successfully resolving Hysteric Party for 5 monsters is VERY strong. And they were spell/trap removing machines with their field spell. In a slower format, they were good enough. Though, going from showcasing the bad Harpie cards into showing GOOD Blackwing cards. Come on. The hate. XD
I think it would be cool to do this same idea except with magic decks. You take a deck that's currently good, one that was once good, and one that was attempted but wasn't as good as predicted, then find key cards in the lists, and present them to non magic players to analyze. As a plus, the video would be longer than 20 minutes, which means more ad revenue.
Loved the video one recommendation is to put cards that were played when the deck was good. Like Gofu and nuthung is good but it wasn’t played when Blackings were good I think Vayu, Shura, Gale, Black whirlwind, and Armor Master will be better representation for the deck
Great episode really enjoyed both guests and arch type choices! I have a suggestion of maybe showing a masterduel replay once or twice for some cards and they have to figure out what exactly happened by what they know about the cards, sort of an in-action look, doesnt have to be too extensive or anything just incase they might be missing obvious synergies.
Heck yea, I LOVE your archetype videos. Also really cool twist to have a team come on Edit: i just finished the video... Seeing new and non players put card connections together and really understanding the strategy by the end is so satisfying.. way yo go guys! James, this is one of your best videos and its because you really let them figure it themselves
@@TheOneJameYT love your stuff bro, keep it coming. I am a consumer and boy am I hungry. Magic and yugioh are the best card games on the planet! Change my mind
Honestly, it feels like showing only 5 cards is really holding this format back. I love the deeper analysis that we get to see the contestants do when they have a whole archetype to evaluate, but there are SO MANY decks in yugioh that you really can’t “get” just by seeing 5 cards. It feels like every time you’ve ever explained the answers to someone in the end, you always say “there’s this card I didn’t show you that does X.”
I think it would be funny to have a round with three decks that you have subjective opinions on. One deck you love, one deck you hate, and one deck you think is meh lol
Snake Eyes are very interactive it's just really really good It should be hit, but not banned, I mean, OCG is limiting Wanted and semi limiting 2 snake eyes card, which should make the whole Diabelstar thing less ridiculous and more in line with other decks, and also stop every deck from just putting a mini Diabelstar engine into it. Should also drive down prices a bit, if hopes were to be had
Might be usefull to do a sort of select a few cream of the crop cards for guests to look at, but additionally let them skim over other cards of the archetype. Just to be a bit fair and give more context.
![Super Mario Advance 4 Full Playthrough with All 106 e-Reader Cards [#ALLTHEMARIOS game 178]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xBrmqqjcqQE/mqdefault.jpg)
“An extra normal summon should be a special summon”: All my homies when they see floowandereeze.
Imma keep it real witchu chiefi, there's nothing "normal" about your summons
🤣🤣🤣
@@tinfoilslacks3750 Summon Limit seems pretty balanced when face with all these new deck. Still died to backrow removal or going second though.
@@panzerschliffehohenzollern4863Ehh. Floodgates in general can be splashed into most problem decks too. Especially if it's a trap. Even if it's a spell you just activate it right before you end your turn and you're good. So... They're gonna put 4 negates on board and summon limit on top, have fun.
@williamfalls exactly why people want it banned right now. It's being played in the side board as a going first tool. Nothing more annoying that facing down a snake eyes fire king board, thinking you might be able to play through, and then having a summon limit flipped on you two summons in.
*reads poplar for 10 seconds, automatically thinks the archetype is broken*
Sounds about right
Imagine that even the MTG players can understand that snake-eyes is broken in 10 seconds.
You know what would be really fun? Getting Magic players to rate Yugioh end boards
That would be fun
Show them ghoti and it’s just leafish and nothing else
seconding this idea. that would be really fun
imagine the meltdown when they see Seals pass
Brilliant idea!!!
"Getting two bodies in play on turn one seems good. I think?"
Oh, you sweet summer child.
dark world summoning their whole deck still isn't good 😭
@@BrinkOfInfamy cured my insomnia
@@BrinkOfInfamy
At least you get to flex on your opponent after they Maxx C you before you show your colors!
Meanwhile my Mannadium deck: "First time? ... No. Not my first time" (Peter Griffin voice)
@@BrinkOfInfamyDecks like flower cardians drawing half their deck and summoning 20 times to end on mid.
Seeing poplar and immediately recognize how broken it is was the highlight of this episode
for real, these 3 effect cards are so over the top
I feel like I got back into ygo at the worst time. First there was tear 0 and then kash and now snake eyes. Id rather play against full power floo because at least they have hard choke points while snake eyes is like “so anyway I started summoning”
@@rdmptn3828Zero cost for it, too. That's my biggest issue with it.
@@bulbinkingI feel like Jame is right though. Compared to tear or Kashtira not even Flamberge is particularly oppressive. All the cards that make SE oppressive are outside cards where with Kashtira ariseheart and the other you can shut down entire strategies and make it impossible for the opponent to play. Tear seems like a lot of fun, if you play against it it just feels like none of cards does anything and cards like called by the grave which should be the perfect counter are made utterly worthless by the ishizu cards that every tear deck uses, this makes it so that you're forced to counter tear with actual floodgates.
I feel like "what's a tuner?" is a very common question, so to put it in magic terms I think a keyword best explains it: "Tuner (sac this creature and at least 1 other creature, put a synchro type creature on the battlefield from outside the game with a mana value equal to the combined mana values of the creatures sac'd. You cannot sac other creatures with Tuner for this effect.)"
That’s a good explanation
(Specific creature might be required for certain synchros).
It feels bad that original harpy lady and Harpy’s feather storm are two of the five cards shown for the Harpy archtype, while snake eyes gets Diabellstar as a free 6th card.
Showing Cyber Harpy lady as a boss monster and Harpy channeler or hunting ground would make deciding which is better between blackwings and harpys more interesting.
Snake eye only got the free 6th card because they were reading Diabellstar cards without knowing what it was, so I felt it was unfair to not give it to them lol
@@TheOneJameYTyeah but harpies have better cards than these. Cyber slash, etc. it was too obvious they sucked.
@adamk7203 the reason why those were chosen is so that it was easier to tell the power of the deck around when it first came out (or at least I think so). Then it would make sense as to why the newer BW support wasn't shown either
@@Kayze330 yeah, i get it. I think that makes sense. It's just too hard to imagine anyone falling for it bc those cards are just such ass. I'd like to see a future ep with some great cards in the old archetype and a new archetype that's awful
@@Kayze330i would agree if there wasnt a period of time where harpies were a legit good deck(when they actually got archetypal support and not just the anime cards) that only got better every time they got support. Two of the cards shown havent seen play in either a decade or two decades, and there are so many more cards that are better representative of what the deck is supposed to do.
Ok this episode is like that Mr. McMahon meme. Love these lads, and their excitement literally ramps up through the video. The realization of "the harpies were never good" is hilarious
That’s part of what i was going for with the way I set it up!
Not to "well actually" you but Harpies did have tops in the ycs vegas format of 2014 before battles of legends with the hands and soul charge. Jeff Jones was topping with it, probably like the 5th or 6th best deck in that format. Love the content, sorry if it comes off as a nitpick I don't mean it that way. I just have been playing this game for 20 years so I like to share some stuff I was there for :)
You would've had to show channeler and hysteric sign though.
Maybe hysteric party too.
Yeah I was kind of annoyed with the Harpie card selection too.
I can't stop cackling on "Not Hung the Starlight"
I play Blackwings and never thought to Nothung the way it was said 😂😂 Definitely saying his name Not Hung the Starlight to get peoples reactions hahaha
Love how you can show any random snake cards to people who don't play and they'll figure out it is super strong in a sec lol.
The crazy part is snake eyes regardless of the variant would definitely struggle a lot if kashtira and tearlment weren't nerfed.
@@galaxyvulture6649 Full power Ishizu Tear will still be considered a top tier contender years from now. That's how scary strong that deck was
@@ak47dragunov Ikr the most absurd part is how most decks in the current meta today needs cards in the grave badly and ishizu alone would be in every deck. Voiceless voice, runick variants, snake eyes, fire king, and sky strikers would be hurt badly by it.
@@galaxyvulture6649 not really. In masterduel, kash only has some consistency hits, and people just play snake eyes with a kashtira engine; and they don't even run ariseheart.
@@ak47dragunov
If actual yugioh accelerates to a point where we can just unlimit all the ishizu tear cards, it will be insanely stupid and horrifying.
The deck in a no banlist format absolutely dunks on everything else, even with all the other decks having access to all the banned broken cards. Ishizu Tear is just that far beyond everything we've seen and that which we would ever see.
The only decks that can some time beat it in no banlist was Dragon Links that specifically got rulings so they could use Victory Dragon meaning it only has to win one duel in a whole match, even then Ishizu Tear outperforms it by far.
Their instant pivot to "nevermind harpies are garbage" on seeing poplar put me into a coughing fit 😂
🤣
As soon as i saw poplar come up on screen, i was just like " Y O U "
Yep. I’m THAT GUY.
"your brain has gotta feel so big and full of curves when you play this deck"
...
nowadays i feel like my opponents brain is tiny and completely smooth when i see snake eyes.
I just loved how they praising harpies at the third card while not even seeing the good ones.
Edit:but it seems kinda obvious to guess what is what, when you show the worst cards of the worst deck, combo extenders of the deck that once was good and the endboard of the strong deck.
damn, he really set two coughing babies up against a hydrogen bomb with the archetype lineup
🤣
I mean, Blackwing is at least a coughing child
This is the first time I know the answer to the power level just by knowing the archetype's names
Nice!!
1:49 "I saw the movie"
Who is gonna tell him that there are 3?
Insert Beasty boys futurama reference.
My immediate thought was which one.
technically 4.
Aww man, I wonder what their reaction would be if you showed full armor master, being that huge unnafected brain control on legs, who can also boardwipe.
Yeah FAM is my #1, then assault dragon THEN Onimaru specifically for people who can't read and try attacking into it with less than 6k
There are much more relevant cards to show for harpies and blackwing. Most harpie decklists don’t play phenix formation, and few play sisters, or just as a one-of. Showing the starter (channeler) and the payoff (cyber slash) could have been interesting. Same thing with blackwing : showing a banned card and onibimaru as the “boss monster”, and no actual good normal summon was a strange choice. But still, the video was great, as always
Onibimaru especially. I don’t think Blackwing players have ever used that except in the most niche decks. And once Full Armor Master - and now Assault Dragon - came out, Onibimaru’s been completely outclassed
I tried for sheer “wow” factor with the card choices over coherency but I’ll try for more coherency in the future.
@@TheOneJameYTfull armour master has the most wow factor in this deck
@@TheOneJameYTi do agree with whatbthey said, harpies were done dirty but also I kinda want a reprint if Phoenix formation niw that card looks cool
Love that approach. It's more about getting people into the show with weaker card and then showing them the insane cards @@TheOneJameYT
I like how they immediately knew how good poplar is lol
This video was so good. Omg once they started reading snake eye cards and their evaluations of harpies changed and I couldn't stop laughing.
I couldn’t stop laughing either as you saw 🤣
Going from blackwing combos to snake eye is like taking a shot of cocane. Snake eye is that hit that sends you into debt
🤣🤣🤣
I like the progression of "wow harpies seem pretty nice" to "oh wow harpies were never good."
also the immediate realization after reading 2 snake-eyes cards that snake-eyes is insane as hell is amazing, their literacy levels are already better than most of the yugioh playerbase
I think one fun idea is having MtG players look at 3 archetypes that were the prime of a format and then having them guess which one had the largest impact as a whole.
That’s a little subjective but I can see it
When you showed Poplar I instantly died laughing. I was not expecting that. But then again, what else could you show that is good "right now" if not Snake-Eyes. I also love how their reaction to why Poplar is busted was so on point they may as well be Joshua Schmidt talking. Very insightful for MTG players.
I have a suggestion, though. Maybe it would be cool if once they lock in their answers you show them recordings of Master Duel replays of the ideal turn 1 of each archetype (sped up, of course). If it would take too long you could just show them the turn 1 of the best deck.
I actually did this with them, but it didn’t make it in the video for time and pace reasons. Patreon patrons get the full unedited version where you can see their reactions.
Bro, that Snake-Eyes jumpscare. We went from Harpies to Blackwing, so I was expecting something like Branded that might look kinda bad until you put all the pieces together, but the Poplar jumpscare made me legit laugh out loud. Love these Archetype rating videos btw. Would be cool to see Icejade as a bad deck that baits for a good deck.
im not sure if cameron realize that the synchro mechanic isnt some archetypical gimmick exclusive to blackwings, feels like he ironically came to the right answer for the wrong reason
This was a relatively easy trio of archetypes to analyse, but it was still really fun to watch. Letting them think Harpies may have been good before showing them modern card design™ was a wonderful idea.
Thanks!
Cam skipping the names on the card text is very appropriate and very YGO-player like
I was impressed at how well he intuited how you read PSCT.
Fun fact: The Elegant Egotist card mentioned on Harpie Lady Sisters was the first [spell?] card that could Special Summon from the Deck.
„…or deck. OR DECK?!“ welcome to yugioh lmao
The reason why everyone hates snake eyes is that it's a thousand dollar deck that's tier 0
Great guests, great video, very fun to watch!
thanks for having us!!!
You guys were awesome! Would be fun to have you on again at some point!
Holy shit, not a crossover I ever expected, the Play to Win duo are my favourite MtG content creators, love to see them here!
Harpies saw a good amount of play in 2013 after the dragon rulers got hit for the first time. People experimented with them before anyone figured out a good list without the baby dragons. Channeler gave harpies easy access to the insanely powerful rank 7 pool and hunting ground gave them a consistent, inherent way to clear their own vanity's emptiness
they also won at least 1 ycs that I know of
@@devdog007 the rest of the people there must have played like vanilla level 1 monsters only... how in the heck do you lose to a harpie lady player. They only have trash. I don't care if you can magically XYZ summon Number 11: Big Eye... They're still trash. The Zombies from 2005 are insanely better. I'd off myself if I'd ever lose to Harpies.
It's ridiculous... Just thinking about how Quasar was still a thing, back then, I don't care how good you think that shite garbage archetype was, Stardust Dragon should beat it with ease. There were so many decks that won on turn 1 already.. and you people claim that a slow af archetype that can't do jack shit is good.
@@livedandletdie Fire Fist and Mermails were the tier 1 deck at the time, but Harpies frequently topped in late 2013 - mid 2014. Remember the question the video asked them to name which deck 'was never good', which is absolutely not true of any deck they showed.
This really proves why a bit of foreknowledge is necessary going into these things. At least the basics (show them a modern yugioh mat so they figure out the 5 monster/backrow + 2 EMZ setup and make assumptions, "pay attention to when a card mentions type/attribute vs when they mention a specific archetype" so they can ask important questions that you can tease them over like the amount of cards in a specific grouping, banish vs banish face-down since from what little I've caught on about MTG exile is essentially a no-touch zone, and the fact that unless a card specifically says "you can't play cards except x" you can shove a billion generic end-board cards in because there's no mana restrictions).
Love Dylan and Cam! This is gonna be fun lol
Edit: Wow they crushed it! Jame, love the idea of you guessing cEdh cards, yall should definitely do it
I’ve played cEDH so this might not work out lol
I don't know if you'll ever see this, but I think having magic players try and solve yu gi oh puzzles would be fun. Like show them a board state and say, "you have everything you need to board wipe and win"
That would be interesting
You're wrong on one thing, snake-eyes did have like 3 different ftks, so it was killing you on turn1 back then
Glad you used my archetype idea, looks like it turned out well. Cant wait to see a ygo player figure if eggs are good or not.
Noted
BTW, my favorite archetype despite not being great is dragonmaids. Despite not being great, it makes so much sense on paper.
Wondering if you could do a just-for-fun episode sometime where you show MTG creators the different Yugioh rarities? See if they can guess if an Ultimate Rare is more expensive than a Starlight! Would probably have to be done in person or over a video call for full effect, since the rarities don't show up well in photography.
I will never get enough of Magic players squinting to read the text on YGO cards. Btw, to any MTG players in the comments, are these guys competitively strong players? Or moreso solely content creators. I ask bc their analysis was honestly pretty good. They had a good read on a lot of these despite having no frame of reference
They play CEDH, which is the format commander, but super high level/competitive
I watch their podcast and love their energy! I think they play in actual cEdh tourneys and do well. Tyler, a guy in their play group, won one the other week so they aren't just content creators. Imo they are quite knowledgeable and provide a balanced analysis instead of hot or reactionary takes. Totally recommend them if you want to get into cEdh!
They are veteran cEDH players but they also dabble in Legacy and Modern. They are good players.
oh boy, never though the 'properly special summoned' rule would pop up
I think this was the first time it’s ever popped up!
I'd like to see you show MTG players cards that are banned, cards that were banned and have since been unbanned, and cards that have never been banned.
Also, have you ever shown any MTG players Mystic Mine?
I believe he has
I have. Check out one of the AliEldrazi videos from around 6 months ago
I loved their thought process, you know they know their card games by getting so much right about all the decks and seeing the increase in power from deck to deck.
I think this video is a really good "Intro to YuGiOh in 15 cards", which seems to be one of the primary goals of this series. It's also very cool to see a new player figure out synergies between cards.
If you ever want to really get a guest with an archetype, I think picking an archetype, that sees a lot of cards and makes a bunch of plays, but without any real payoff (like Mayakashi or Flower Cardian) is a very good way (though it's difficult to make that feel fair).
Alternatively I think it would be interesting to see new peoples takes on archetypes, that don't swarm the field, but create a lot of value (like Sky Striker or Spellbook/Prophecy).
Yea those are on my list already for future videos!
54:31 I know you don’t pay too too much attention to the state of yugioh and mostly focus on magic, so to answer their question: the deck is currently tier zero and has been since the release of Poplar, and the majority of the yugioh community wants SOMETHING in the deck banned or limited (arguments about exactly how to hit the deck because literally every card in the deck equals every other card so it’s hard to lower the power level without outright killing it as a whole)
26:10 "why there's so many stars"
now waiting when he see 'rising rebellion falcon'
I think giving guests example cards from different archetypes with similar effects (search, destroy, banish, etc) but with differing costs and conditions might be a nice idea for them to compare and give scores.
I really enjoyed having 2 people on at once, allows them to sorta bounce ideas back and forth. Keep it up bro, love these types of vids
Thanks!
I want you to show prank-kids to someone, they just seem so fun and harmless.
That’s a good one
Love the Harpie representation! I played Harpies in my kids league back in the day "around goat format" and won almost every week. Harpie Hunting Ground was brutal back when MST was limited to 1. I later moved on to Warrior Toolbox and won literally every week.
28:46 Could be cool to have a Synchro that modulates its Level while in the Extra Deck. Also, if you think Onimaru is good, check Red Supernova Dragon (usually as big but all the time, also can't be destroyed and is a boardwipe on legs)
the funny thing is flamberge dragon isnt even the payoff of the deck, snake eyes literally doesnt even have an in archetype endboard boss monster. the actual payoff is ip sp and princess and apo and baronne.
the strongest payoff card shown is feather storm which is a searchable card that for literally ANY other deck in the game would read: Instant - 0 mana: Win the game.
They have, you know what it's called?
Snake eyes diabelstar, which what you can expect, diabelstar, crazy beast and poplar as one monster.
TBH you really understated the power of snake eyes. It is by far the best deck right now, even though it
See, Harpies are a bit of a weird thing historically. Deck used to be a somewhat alright rogue option, mostly because they were a somewhat decent rank-4 spam deck and that was kinda all they needed to be to stick around for a bit.
And then they basically didn't get meaningful support for like, 4 or 5 years and by that point, yeah they were basically nonexistent.
Also feel like noting that Harpies were really, *really* good in Duel Links for a bit, but at the same time, it really doesn't take that much for something to be a meta super-threat in Duel Links.
A clarification: Snake-eye is an extremely expensive TIER 0 DECK, there is no better deck or decks that can compete with it. Yes, we do want some of its pieces to be banned.
May have been a good idea to show them the end-board(s) that comes with opening any of the starters.
53:40 not going to bring up the Volcanic FTK version of the deck?
The rapid reassessment when they start to read Poplar is fantastic
It really was
I think calling Snake-eye Tier 1 is honestly underselling it
Love those guys
Harpies being good today is like squadron hawk is good in a format where everyone plays legacy storm
I think it would be cool if possible you could show what the end boards for certain decks are so they can determine if they're good, broken, or mid for another video. Some good examples could be turbo decks that have strong boards only if they aren't seeing any interruptions, labrynth which only sets backrow that are crazy, 60 card paleo zoo bc joshua schmidt lol, 60 card branded (helps to show how deck size isn't everything and you could trick them), tear, and then prime kashtira board. Then for lols you could show them the blue eyes fusion that has 3 negates on board and that new fusion that also has three negates (it was used by those green and orange twins in the anime).
This feels like an unfair representation of Harpies. The archetype actually saw competitive play once upon a time, and even saw a few tops. They might not have been top meta, but they certainly weren't garbage.
They were always garbage. Relax
@@picasso2559 Seeing competitive play once upon a time and seeing actual successes isn't something I'd call garbage. The original Harpy Ladies are yes, but their legacy support doesn't rely on them at all. Garbage would be something like Roids or Red-Eyes, or if you really want to push that definition, something really super rogue like pure Dragonmaids on release.
Yeah I am pretty sure I remember harpies being very strong meta condenders for a brief period of time as an xyz spam strat with legacy support.
Yeah harpies got support in 2013 which made them prob tier 2 for a half of a year in early 2014 after DRulers got hit and before HAT format started
Yeah I 100% agree. I felt this way about how Dark Magician was represented too, with Soul Servant and Magicians Souls being left out. Now, with the first 3 harpie cards being never used and the last 2 not being true archetypal combo pieces, it really made harpies look like trash even to fresh eyes. I appreciate him explaining egotist, but Perfumer/Chaneller/Cyber Slash should have been on this list.
Jame holding back laughter listening to them hype up haripe lady sisters 🤣🤣
One hundred percent 🤣
If they think Snake-EYes makes you bigbrain, I can only imagine their reaction to seeing a well-versed Synchron or Code Talker player. :P
1:04 lol Shoutouts from Maui!!!!!
The crossover I never knew I needed
Some really weird choices for the first two decks, that dont represent what those decks did at their best, or what they do now.
I wanted to give them the “wow” factor instead of having them work through combos in their head with those ones. I’ll try a different method soon.
"Ah, man, the harpies suck" was so funny to me
Reminder that Harpie Lady 1, 2, and 3 don't exist because, like A Legendary Ocean, their names are "always treated as 'Harpie Lady'"
I like how they looked at 1 Snake-Eye card and immediately knew this was going to be busted.
I know right 🤣
Only thing that was wrong is that people are absolutely wanting Snake-Eyes cards to be banned, there's not many people who are happy with this format at all and most people are sick of it
Definitely my favorite Yu-Gi-Oh! TH-cam series and these are two top-tier guest
Really appreciate it!
Weird choice of cards for Harpies and Blackwings in this one. Maybe Showing Cyber Slash lady, Channeler and Perfurmer could make a better impression. As for Blackwings Full Armor Master is like the "Noob bait" card, also showing Simoon who is the premiere combo starter for the deck. Snake-eyes cards are so obviosly overpowered in comparison.
Really nice video, bring this guys back.
When I saw you gave them a snake eyes card, I screamed. And rhe fact thsy they IMMEDIATELY saw how good it was just tells you all you need to know about the deck.
Honestly having MTG players analyse some trap decks would be pretty nice. I just wanna see the golden boy get evaluated tbh 😅
This episode was great! I was laughing when the first monster of blackwings was 100x better than the harpies and they were so sure harpies were decent.
Happy you enjoyed it!
Ah, I haven't played Yugioh since 2013, but Harpies were one of the decks I took to tournaments. I always preferred the 'rogue' decks. I've played off and on casually with Harpies recently since they have even more new-ish support. Their archetype isn't bad, but it's just not good enough to keep up with the actual meta decks. I remember back in the day, going into Lightning Chidori was super strong since it gets around "cannot be destroyed" effects.
Hysteric Party usually resulted in a win if you were allowed to resolve it for a full field. But no, like you said, they did get good stuff later on, but it was just behind the curve on the timeline. Let's be real, As I previously said, successfully resolving Hysteric Party for 5 monsters is VERY strong. And they were spell/trap removing machines with their field spell. In a slower format, they were good enough.
Though, going from showcasing the bad Harpie cards into showing GOOD Blackwing cards. Come on. The hate. XD
All love!
I think it would be cool to do this same idea except with magic decks. You take a deck that's currently good, one that was once good, and one that was attempted but wasn't as good as predicted, then find key cards in the lists, and present them to non magic players to analyze. As a plus, the video would be longer than 20 minutes, which means more ad revenue.
That’s a great idea!
8:10 This is so funny - thinking Harpie Lady Sisters is broken XD
Loved the video one recommendation is to put cards that were played when the deck was good. Like Gofu and nuthung is good but it wasn’t played when Blackings were good I think Vayu, Shura, Gale, Black whirlwind, and Armor Master will be better representation for the deck
Thanks for the feedback!
5:42 Apple Magician Girl is getting on this show sometime?
We nearly managed to convince ourselves that snake-eyes are flower cardians
I thought he would show Full Armor Master for the last Blackwing monster.
I should’ve!
These guests are funny I am enjoying their banter with you 😂
You should give Dylan and Cam some YuGiOh decks, don't explain how they work, and let them go at it!
This is a collab I didn't know I needed
🫡
Probably my fav crossover so far I love this
🫡
Great episode really enjoyed both guests and arch type choices! I have a suggestion of maybe showing a masterduel replay once or twice for some cards and they have to figure out what exactly happened by what they know about the cards, sort of an in-action look, doesnt have to be too extensive or anything just incase they might be missing obvious synergies.
I showed them the snake eye first turn combo when we recorded the video! Patreon patrons get to see the full unedited video a day early
This one was too easy for these guys. They know what they're looking at.
Heck yea, I LOVE your archetype videos. Also really cool twist to have a team come on
Edit: i just finished the video... Seeing new and non players put card connections together and really understanding the strategy by the end is so satisfying.. way yo go guys! James, this is one of your best videos and its because you really let them figure it themselves
Thanks!!
@@TheOneJameYT love your stuff bro, keep it coming. I am a consumer and boy am I hungry. Magic and yugioh are the best card games on the planet! Change my mind
The guy that's Mario picks up snake eyes real quick
Honestly, it feels like showing only 5 cards is really holding this format back. I love the deeper analysis that we get to see the contestants do when they have a whole archetype to evaluate, but there are SO MANY decks in yugioh that you really can’t “get” just by seeing 5 cards. It feels like every time you’ve ever explained the answers to someone in the end, you always say “there’s this card I didn’t show you that does X.”
Yea I agree. I just need to find a happy medium where I get to show all the relevant cards while still not making a 2 hour video lol
@@TheOneJameYT I don’t know anything about TH-cam analytics and all that, but I’d personally love if you made 2 hour videos
Snake Eyes legitimately jump scared me.
🤣
I think it would be funny to have a round with three decks that you have subjective opinions on. One deck you love, one deck you hate, and one deck you think is meh lol
I love their thinking. Very interesting seeing how people who have very limited knowledge of the game evaluate these.
Snake Eyes are very interactive it's just really really good
It should be hit, but not banned, I mean, OCG is limiting Wanted and semi limiting 2 snake eyes card, which should make the whole Diabelstar thing less ridiculous and more in line with other decks, and also stop every deck from just putting a mini Diabelstar engine into it.
Should also drive down prices a bit, if hopes were to be had
Might be usefull to do a sort of select a few cream of the crop cards for guests to look at, but additionally let them skim over other cards of the archetype. Just to be a bit fair and give more context.
"Blackwing is great! Must be the best one on the list!"
"... Lemme show you"
S N E K
🤣