Safely Using Autotransformers with the Growatt 5000ES (US) in North America.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ม.ค. 2022
- James from Signature Solar shows the correct and safe use of a Growatt 5000ES. This model is only shipped - modified for US customers - directly from the manufacturer to Authorized American Distributors listed on www.growatt-america.com
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The 240v system base of the 5000es allows you to scale up a system at a 27% cost reduction vs MPP6548 for large 240v loads
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This popular method of creating split-phase electric in North America can be completed safely and effectively with the correct precautions, and by purchasing a correctly modified unit from an authorized retailer like Signature Solar.
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Note: Since this video has come out, some Growatt units are shipped with an internal neutral ground bounding screw. If this is a feature you would like to remove, the screw can be taken out. Please consult a licensed electrician if you have any questions about how this functionality would work for your use case.
Now it’s “safe” to remove the screw??? Yea not trusting you.
All of a sudden after 8 months you are just now deciding to Mention this! Yes so when they open the case it voids the warranty! Well played. Well played
Please release instructions on when and why this NEG bond needs to be removed. Well versed users are recommending that NEG bond needs to be removed, but Signature Solar says warranty will be voided. If we are talking safety, a supplememt needs to be released immediately for EG4 and other inverters. -Jay Schwarb
Is this some kind of joke?
Yes, it’s a big joke. The fact the manufacturer is calling an internal NGB a feature is hilarious. The fact that most need to open the box to remove this, stacked behind PCBs in hopes of not damaging something is right out of a sci-fi movie gone terribly wrong. The fact we are commenting on the manufacturer’s published video without any response is suspect at best and negligent at worst. Hope no one dies or damages equipment. I already blew out a new DC Inverter 5 ton and several GFI circuits.
@@jcschwarb This could kill someone just for touching the cabinet why is it being handled like a minor defect 🤔
Mine has been running since July FLAWLESSLY!!!! Thank for all your input on this James. And this is why I went to meet you, and bought my equipment from you. Keep rocking it.
Thanks for the informative explanation. I have been using my 5000ES(US) from you and am very happy with all the features and the high voltage solar input. This does a bunch of things that my 12kW Aims inverter can't and thats why I bought it from you and will buy more of them.
I did a load test of 3 growatt 5000 es inverters and the solar edge transformer. With over 10,000 watts of 120 loads. But I balanced the loads. My transformer didn't heat up and it far exceeded what I thought it could do. thank you for helping me put together an awesome system.
This video was recommended for me after I watched the Will Prowse video on the same subject. Thanks for keeping us informed!
Excellent video, I'm in the Caribbean and I bought your 24v 3000w and 5kw Gyll batterygoing 1yr now and no issues.. excellent service, keep it up
Thank you so much for the video! I'm very close to buying some inverters and have been closely looking at the 5000s that you offer. I had absolutely made up my mind to get them until all of this controversy. And to be honest I thought I knew what I was doing, now I'm not so sure. I'll have to watch the video a few more times to try to understand it completely LOL. Very impressed by the friendly professional helpful non-shaming positive attitude!!!
This is really good info and I encourage you to keep putting out more videos. Cutting the back ground noise and using a microphone would be extremely helpful.
You need to check you inverters!! We bought ALL of our solar systems items from signature solar. We had a problem with the lights flicking and after a month of them trying to help figure out the problem. There solution was to open it and check if there was a screw in the board!! Guess what!! There is a screw. Now they are trying to say take it out it will be fine!!! What the heck. We asked them if they have seen the OWNERS video. They said that was an old video, and they have since then figured out it’s ok to remove the screw. Hummmm that’s alittle scary!!
The “smart owner” that blasts the other companies for telling coustomers its ok to remove the screw. Now changes their mind, and I should feel totally safe having these inverters in my home!!! I don’t trust this company!! I would be scared to purchase anything from them.
Thank you great video. There’s a lot of people that need to see this in motion with the math thumbs up
I have a power monitor on my breaker box and one of the things I monitor is L1 and L2 of my SE. It very rarely goes past the 800 watts. Most of the time it happy sits between a few watts to 500 watts. So the chances of the tripper breaking in my setup would be very small.
That being said, the method you out lined is a very good way to solve it. One panel for 220 loads and the 2nd for 120 loads.
Was just finding out about this issue. Well done with the video.
Nice recap and would agree with others that having a detailed video and diagram outlining the solution leveraging the combiner box is key for current and future customers. You should do other videos on your products highlighting their benefits / cost effectiveness. It can go a long way in education and future sales.
I bought a growatt from signature. Very good experience. This guy knows what he is talking about. Makes me feel comfortable buying more things from signature
Totally agree.
I have 2 of these units and run my whole house, including a 4 Ton Air-conditioner with them.
My 5KW transformer is overkill, It doesn't even get warm in a reasonably well balanced house.
Outstanding explanation thanks
Thanks for the clarification.
Good job. Watched Will's video too. Very fast response.
Awesome job - thanks for clearly explaining this topic for us.
Thanks. Re-confirmed what I was originally thinking.
Excellent video love the explanation
Don’t believe that video he changes his mind about the screw. I don’t trust them
I'd really like to see more from you about the whole loss of neutral thing and how to avoid that.
@Richard from Signature Solar Hi Richard. Yes, this would prevent a "overload" issue, but what about this scenerio: everything is working propelry, balanced, we have 120 and 240 circuits running fine... then, the transformer decides to just blow up. for whatever reason... or the breaker in the ac-panel for the transformer gets flipped off by accident by a human. Now, there is no overload situation, but the transformer is now offline... everything is still working on the 120 v lines. Doesn't 220 go down one side of the 120 line now? Easy to test, simply have the bench setup you have, run the exact "balanced" load, and flip the breaker connected to the transformer. nothing else. What happens?
This would be the effect of losing the neutral, but not the l1/l2. can you demonstrate that?
Appreciate the video y'all! It helps to clarify a lot.
Agreed I have a nearly identical system to yours and was confused about the miss understandings around this inverter. We have 3 of them and a 6x EG4-LL-LCD. I am happy with my initial test and cant wait for our build out. We are excited to see what you do next as well.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer the questions beginners like me have about these units and how to wire them up. I wasn't going to run separate 120 vac lines to the main panel, some 40' away, to put the breakers for the auto-transformers, two, in my case. Instead, I was just going to put two 30 amp breakers (now, 25 amp, since watching your video) in the same electrical box as the two 30 amp breakers for the 5000 es's, and just send L1, L2, N, and equipment ground to the main panel. Would that still be a safe and acceptable way to wire the two mid point transformers and two 5000 es's?
Good job!!
Thanks for not getting too technical with your instruction. I would like to find out if I can hook up the a/c input to just one of my two Growatt 3000 inverters in parallel split phase?
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I was getting worried as I just bought the Inverter, auto-transformer and two batteries a few months ago (yet to install) but then all of sudden here comes these youtube videos saying "Danger, danger, danger!". Now my next concern is this stuff about grounding earth vs. ground bonding I'm trying to figure out. I'm off-grid shed with just lights, power tools, and soon to purchase a mini-split from you all. Oh... and will be using it as a "back up generator" for frig, window unit, and lights when the next hurricane comes to town. No more driving miles to find gasoline.
Thank you James for explaining the differences. You guys are awesome! Great job.
For the SE transformer, did I hear you say we should use a 25 (240 double) amp breaker from the transformer to the breaker box?
A 5kW 240/120V split phase xfmr has a single winding secondary tapped in the middle. Each half winding has half the capacity (2.5kW) output. The middle tap (AKA neutral) will only carry the imbalance between the two halves, but the xfmr still provides energy for the sum of both sides. Large imbalances cause a reduction in the xfmr's lifespan due to uneven vibrations and heating.
Really appreciate this information. I think the lesson here is that if it's not written down somewhere, it doesn't count. I'm sure you guys will take that to heart.
The real lesson is don’t buy things on the black market
great job
Get video. I purchased a Growatt 5000 and a transformer package from you guys a couple of months ago. I still have not set it up in my tiny shed yet because I'm not completely confident with my skills. Can you show how you wired the small breaker box and what size breakers you are using? I want to make a board with the inverter, transformer and breaker box to hang on the wall in my shed and tie into the sub panel.( It's just the shed wired into it, no feed from the main panel).
Keep up the great videos.
Can you tell us if the growatt 5000 es you guys sell is UL listed?
BOOM, there it is. The schematic you have is pretty much the same as my electrician came up with to wire my three Growatts. I tried to tell people on these other forms, but they were more interested in doom day scenarios of the inverter failing. EXCELLENT job
THANK YOU
Can we see a close up of the "piece of silicone", curious how you're meeting creepage and clearance requirements with that modification, thanks.
I have a question... Can I buy a growatt inverter and 5k 48v and be able to do level 2 charge directly from growatt to my Tesla model Y after hooking up my Solar panels and battery bank?
I just want a backup for my 240v well pump. Would the 5kw growatt run it? Or do I need to run it to an autotransformer?
Ok . I follow the idea of separating the 240 v inverters and transformers (in one panel) from the 120v loads in another panel. And I see the 25amp breaker backfeeding / downstreaming into the 120v panel, but what I dont see is how it is fed into the 120v panel. Is there a breaker in the 240v panel that feeds into the 120v panel? if so what is the amperage of that breaker? Otherwise is the 25A breaker coming from the auto transformer?
Question? I ordered a 5000es-us. The package I received states 5000es am I okay? Is it just a rebadged 5000es you guys used to fill orders with the us plate covered up? I don't wanna open it and void the warranty to see.
I have a question on grounding the system, does the system need to tied into the house ground, or do I need to install a grounding rod, Or is the autotransformer the Ground ?
I'm trying to find out if I should buy this 230-40v inverter it has 3 ac 230v input terminals ground neutral and line the 230v output only has 2 terminals line & neutral can I use that type of inverter with the solar edge transformer??
Can you run this inverter off grid with no AC input power to run off-grid mini splits and just wire the L1 and L2 and ground directly to the mini splits or do the Mini Splits need to be run on a split system only
If i wanted to use 240 volt appliances on their own, would i be able to put a junction box at the wires coming out of the inverter and run wires to a seperate panel which i would use strictly for 240? When i would use the 240, i assume i would have to make sure that the main breaker in my 120v panel be shut off. Thanks
Ok i tested my international 240v Non-Growatt inverter that has the ground on the case it didn't seem to have a bond between the neutral terminal & the case ground the meter didn't move can i use the SolarEdge Midpoint with my inverter even tho my ground is on the case & not bonded to neutral ?
I'd like to know what the real reasons for the focused attack on the product is from Will Prowse. I have installed a number of these with no issues. Maybe there's benefit with him promoting the MPP units while trying to trash the Growatt units. Coming from someone with no field experience I would take everything Mr. Prowse says with a grain of salt.
It started with a video from a guy using the European model (Not knowing about the American version) and claiming people could kill themselves using the 5000es. Everyone jumped on the band wagon without confirming facts or even removing the board to confirm the possibility of a short. Will Prowse failure was not verifying the issues given his large audience. These are excellent units and you do not need a combiner box.
@@TheFatman819 I've installed them with no issues. I don't buy them for the cheaper price I buy them for the load balancing aspect which they do very well, and my clients like them too.
What did I say that was not true? I claimed that growatts marketing material is not accurate. Go on their website right now mendo home power, and look at the 5000US listing and the manual that doesn't match. My video is not a "focused attack" and I was on the phone with signature solar multiple times to figure this whole mess out. Many people are buying these units from Chinese drop shippers and it has a ground neutral bond, and yes, this is very dangerous. Did you not watch my video? I thought I made my points very clear. I challenge you or signature solar to find anything in my video that was not true. You can go on the growatt America website right now and see what I am talking about.
And watch my mpp videos from years back. Also, watch my growatt videos in the solar shed years ago. I have 20+ all in one systems in my workshop right now, and I prefer some models more than others. I just made a video bashing the mpp lvx lineup. I don't think you have seen my videos going by your comment above.
@@WillProwse Did you verify before commenting on the ruckus make by a video No, and that is all I said, you have a responsibility to prove what you are saying when on a platform. I spoke with Growatt and Signature Solar prior to my purchase and I did not buy in the Black Market i.e eBay and Aliba which are known to have problems.
@@TheFatman819 yes I did, that's what I just said. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
Thanks for doing this guys. I’m working on adding 2 of your 5000esUS units and an auto transformer to my off-grid system and all the info about people using the wrong units and potentially setting up the auto transformers incorrectly definitely got my attention. But it’s been a good learning experience. I do have a few remaining questions: Do you see any need for adding a temperature sensor to the auto transformer that can ultimately trip the breaker feeding into the 120V loads? I can’t always control what gets plugged into my system. Also what happens on your 5000esUS when there is an AC source coming in? I assume there is no ground to neutral bonding like the non-US 5000es?
RIght!, no neutral bonding, if you want total load protection on the transformer follow the wiring process later in the video or do a load analysis when you install the system. the key thing with these is planning the 120v and then you can have a 240v party at low cost/watt
@@SignatureSolar I believe you’re suggesting to use over current protection to protect again grid connected bypass correct? I’m looking to use these on critical loads in a TOU backup battery scenario. I’ll have other non-critical 120VAC loads which collectively could cause an imbalance in the critical panel correct? I need to draw this all out and run it by you guys.
In short the transformer is for the "IMBALANCE" , correct ? Keeping the loads balanced , minimizes the use of the transformer.
@@BartholomewMarkR the transformer is to split the 240VAC and create a center tap. But yes as you imbalance the 120VAC loads the transformer has to balance that. You should protect that transformer with a breaker that would prevent overloading it. The problem if you trip off the transformer is that you lose your neutral and potentially send 240VAC to 120VAC rated devices. To prevent that some are using CFCIs to protect for that. Good luck!
@@danksu04 I think you mean GFCI and yes, I spoke to a electrician and I would recommend using GFCI breakers or a GFCI outlet on each circuit.
Thanks for posting and clarification.
When you are filming a video, maybe you can get other people to STFU OR LEAVE THE ROOM?
Yeah I found it extremely distracting. I can only imagine how difficult it was for the engineer to keep his focus!
what happens if the transformer failed for some odd reason. Is there any way of shutting down the 240V so you do not fry 120 electronics?
Split phase creates alot of problems for inverters. Is it legal/code for US houses to go full 220Vac, only L1, L2 and GND, but no N?
Do you have a wiring diagram of the combiner box?
trying to compare the MPP LV6548 and the growatt spf5000. Growatt lists max pv open circuit of 450V where the MPP lists 250 max input. Is open circuit voltage and max pv input the same thing? If so having 450V input sounds like a clear winner to me.
I have the Growatt SPF-5000ES working with a Autotransformer Growatt AT-5000es 7 months, using power tools like table saw, router, etc without any problem.
In the process of install three identical systems that will be off-grid (top floor, bottom floor, garage) (I like the redundancy if I have a critical failure in one system). I have the 5000ES and the Autotransformer for each with dedicated 100AMP stand-alone panel for each system. All of the components are located in a central "Power room". So, a couple of questions - all grounding related. 1.) The panels are all independent, should the ground bonding screw be used in the panel? 2.) I know the Autotransformers need to be grounded to physical ground, not the panel. Can I tie the three transformers grounds together to have just one run to the physical ground? (just saving alot of copper) 3.) Should the 5000ES be grounded to the panel or direct to physical ground? and again, can the 5000ES ground be tied together to make one run instead of three. 4.) Finally, with the three panels (not sub-panels) need to be physically grounded. Again, can I tie those ground together for one run instead of three. Thanks in advance. Have all of my components mounted with preliminary wiring done, most the the panels mounted. Not quit in time for the winter mess headed our way...but propane sure help.
Hi
I have 2x 5KW 48V GROWATT OFFGRID HYBRID INVERTER - SPF5000ES and 2x Growatt 48V 4.8kwh Hope 4.8L-C1 Lithium iron Battery,
Thanks to signature solar the installation went without issues.
But I have noticed the battery loosing 20 to 30 % capacity overnight with no load connected. Could you please reply what I can do to find a problem fault?🤔
I just recieved the Growatt min 6000TL-X from you and it is labelled L/N/PE for the 240v does this not make it a European model? I need a true split-phase unit. and will probably send this back to Signature Solar and look for something that will work.
Lots of shop noise, but thanks for the quick update..
Why not use an 240 primay to 120/240 secondary isolation transformer on the output of the inverter for the split phase. 5kva matched to a 5kva inveter 10kva for 2 inverters in parrelel and so on. Keeping all of your loads in the distribution from the seconday side of the isolation transformer. In this set up you never have to worry with losing your netrual separately from your ungrounded conductors and pushing 240 volts to 120 volt appliances. Additionally the isolation transformer creates a seperatly derived system where you will bond at the first means of disconnect on the seconday side of the isolation transformer and establish a new grounding electrode separate from your incoming power service making in effect the inverters a generation only output to the isolation transformer totally isolated from all loads 240 or 120.
This is a good solution. One I’m considering myself. My only concern is the amount of transformer idle and core losses.
I bought a 5000 ES and installed it at my home with 4,800 watts of panel power. I also have 2 lithium batteries charged by the 5000 ES.
How many Amps of 240V output power can I expect from the 5000 on a full sun day?
Please explain the difference between the previous SolarEdge and the new GroWatt mid-point transformers SS is selling. Can we exchange the SE for the GW?
The SE was 3kw of imbalance, max 4000/1000 L1/L2 split: the Growatt is 2500w of imbalance so max 3750/1250 L1/L2 split. they can be paralleled with each other as the cores are both 50/50 wound.
Either setup is fine as long as you plan out your 120v loads and check balance at the time of install, just checking and counter-acting imbalance may diminish the need for a second transformer.
@@SignatureSolar Would you please explain (for many of us) what exactly does it mean to "check balance".
hi there are you saying i can run my gree on l1 and N 230 v one phase i run my water heater on one phase that be nice if i can do that i yse a st500 for now it works ok
Hi James
How to go about using this brand growatt to make 3phase with Neutral.
L1 . L2 L3 TO Neutral is 120v
what if you are using a single phase 120 volt output generator ( or inverter ) ? Can I run the 120-volt output of my generator into to the transformer ( growatt ) and get 240 output ? ( like on the outback auto former 240-x )
I wish you would go over the wiring in detail, grid input - 5000es output - and transformer wiring. What do you do with grid neutral?
you don't need the grid neutral. the transformer provides your neutral.
I have 4 Growatt 5k ES and 2 Growatt transformers I purchased from signature solar that I'm installing right now. I planned to hook up the transformers in what I call my solar breaker panel which only has two 30 amp breakers (one for each transformer) four 50 amp breakers (one for each inverter) and one 125 amp breaker to supply my house panel that has a Generator interlock to prevent mixing solar with grid. Now for my questions: 1. Is it ok to hook up each transformer separately as 2 individual and separate units wiring each as if it was the only one used and connected to its own 30A breaker. 2. I have the new growatt transformers, should I be using a different size breaker. (James mentioned a 20A in the video???) 3. The new growatt Transformer has a input "L" and "N", do I connect my Black "L1" to "L" and Red "L2" to "N" from my 30A breaker in my solar panel and run my white neutral from Output "N" back to the neutral bar in my solar panel. If this isn't correct, please give me some directions on how it should be done. PS The reason for 2 transformers is safety in case one breaker trips the second one could handle the split load till I reset or do the repair.
Hello James. I have the exact same components as you described (and yes, all purchased from Siganture Solar), and similar inquiry. Did you ever receive any reply(s) to your questions? I'd be curious to know the response(s).
Are the same safety concerns present on the Growatt spf5000 hvm-wpv ?
You need to check you inverters!! We bought ALL of our solar systems items from signature solar. We had a problem with the lights flicking and after a month of them trying to help figure out the problem. There solution was to open it and check if there was a screw in the board!! Guess what!! There is a screw. Now they are trying to say take it out it will be fine!!! What the heck. We asked them if they have seen the OWNERS video. They said that was an old video, and they have since then figured out it’s ok to remove the screw. Hummmm that’s alittle scary!!
The “smart owner” that blasts the other companies for telling coustomers its ok to remove the screw. Now changes their mind, and I should feel totally safe having these inverters in my home!!! I don’t trust this company!! I would be scared to purchase anything from them. Now want to charge me a 40% restocking fee and I pay the shipping!!! That doesn’t seem like good customer service to me!!
Hello, I'm confused about the specifications of the growatt transformer, it says it can handle 42a L-N continuous, it also says the maximum invalance is 1.5kw which implies a muy lower current through the neutral. Can you explain? Thanks
You need to check you inverters!! We bought ALL of our solar systems items from signature solar. We had a problem with the lights flicking and after a month of them trying to help figure out the problem. There solution was to open it and check if there was a screw in the board!! Guess what!! There is a screw. Now they are trying to say take it out it will be fine!!! What the heck. We asked them if they have seen the OWNERS video. They said that was an old video, and they have since then figured out it’s ok to remove the screw. Hummmm that’s alittle scary!!
The “smart owner” that blasts the other companies for telling coustomers its ok to remove the screw. Now changes their mind, and I should feel totally safe having these inverters in my home!!! I don’t trust this company!! I would be scared to purchase anything from them.
Okay so at 10kwts a day over 17 hours what is the right size inverter to have? Just a normal off grid household. The way you sound 5kwt inverter is to big.
Could you do a video that explains the bypass in the diagram that you posted to the forums please?
basically a standard bypass switch that we advise if you don't want to be repairing inverters in a hurry, good idea for a video though, many people kind of fail to think long term when designing systems.
@@SignatureSolar I'm sure I'm one of those people... :) I don't know what I don't know.
@@SignatureSolar Thanks. I found an inexpensive ATS that will do this automatically or manually.
Thanks for the explanation. Could you please address the grounding of the inverters vs grounding the panels. There are videos out there recommending having a separate ground for the inverters citing your company told them to do so. Thanks
@Richard from Signature Solar here th-cam.com/video/I2rbxKtx5cs/w-d-xo.html. Please also check their highlighted comment under their video. thanks for the quick response
@Richard from Signature Solar I might have confused 2 instances where he mentioned talking to you vs talking to electricians. Nonetheless, it'd be very beneficial to know if it should have its own ground or not especially if and when it's operating in bypass mode. Should it be grounded to the main ground when there's an L1 L2 input? Thanks again
@@sudokillall Per NEC all grounds have to be tied into the main house ground. This is what my electrician has explained
@Richard from Signature Solar small update. The uploader of the video I linked actually replied to me under his video mentioning Signature Solar and his electricians recommended that setup (as in the 2 separate grounds).
I have 3 separate grounding systems and Iwas able to pass county inspections. the house ground hooks up directly to the meter box. the second ground hooks up to the panel that has power coming from the growatt inverters. the third set of grounding rods is at the solar panel array. all grounding set ups included 2 grounding rods hooked together so there are a total of 6 grounding rods on my property. That's what the county building inspectors wanted. I had 2 separate electrical permits and they passed inspection. they wanted the grounding at the inverter panel because I was turning off grid power when I had plenty of sun.
Regarding the all-in-one unit eliminating the need of a combiner box, outlined in the first half of the video…
Does the All In One GroWatt offer a circuit breaker on the PV input, like a combiner box?
Does the All In One GroWatt offer a lighting arrest, on the PV input, like a combiner box?
just an IMO disconnect suffices, no OCD for less than 3 strings per NEC
lightning arrestor is an add-on option, the ones in the combiner boxes are cheap but not UL,
www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Pv-Arrestor-Lightning-PV-System-1000V_1600257671632.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.338d5f33kdiiHU&s=p
James, what about bypass mode with grid connected. Will the midpoint transformer try to balance a grid transformer because it is not a isolated transformer?
because grid is 50/50 wound and the auto-former is 50/50 wound they will not conflict via ground. standard practice by a number of big names like Qcells and Delta that use transformers this way
@@SignatureSolar So if one leg on grid is 117v and other is 120. Assuming unbalanced load on Grid transformer which is supplying 5 houses. This midpoint will not back feed any current to balance grid transformer in bypass mode? Also if midpoint transformer tripped for whatever reason. One leg on inverter will go 0 volt and other will go 240v as it loses neutral. I saw some people using contactors to shut inverter output if neutral is lost. Can you recommend a similar solution?
@@wasifsyed1085 good question, I have surge protectors and GFCI outlets on all important 120 loads. I did a test where I turned off my transformer leaving a 120 GFCI outlet hooked up. It tripped the GFCI and never hurt the appliance. I have heard other's offer other solutions, but I am sticking with the one I tried that works.
Maybe a good idea to film after hours to avoid the frakking noise???
I am an electrician. It's balance of your loads. I have this exact system. I also have an Emporia load monitoring system. I run my house with this Growatt. The load on my transformer averages zero to 2.2 amps. This is not an issue except for people that don't know what they are doing and/ or running their equipment over spec. This is not complicated
I can't run my dryer. When I do I get an overload (7) error. I have the SPF5000ES I bought a couple months ago along with your transformer. I am if grid I have 14 330 panels connected that produce about 260 volts. I have 2 of your 48v rack batteries.
So why do I get the error load from the dryer? Do I need to add another inverter? And if I do will I need more solar panels or can I just plug half my pannels into each inverter?
Look at the info plate on your dryer, mine is rated at 5400W for the heating element itself and the drum motor pulls rather a lot from one leg too. I can see that tripping a 5000w HF inverter.
Yeah I would check the rated watts on your dryer some of them can be quite high. And I bet the starting surge varies on dryers a lot as well two dryers may have the same consumption in running watts but one may be a lot harder to start than the other. And maybe more importantly it might be consuming more than it's rated to so you might want to test and see what it's actually pulling starting surge and continuous running watts.
The dryer starts and then runs but it then will overload the growatt. I called in an the text said I would need another inverter added. He said even though the growatt puts out 240 that internally it has 120 legs and because of that one leg is probably overloaded? So a second inverter would balance that out?? So before I order another inverter and transformer I just want to make sure. Thanks
@@FreeAmericanSpirit JUST GET ONE MORE INVERTER. No need for another transformer. I have 3 inverters and only one transformer. I have a load test video. just click on my name. Just buy from signature solar.
@@jamesshomesolarmore2223 that is the plan. Plus 2 more batteries and 6 more panels. But this is a good start. I can run everything (pretty much) that I need to. For several hours, without discharging the batteries on most day's, as long as I don't get carried away with the 120 volt 15000 but ac.
You should land your autotransformer on the MAIN LUG of your combiner panel so you can never shut it off (loose your neutral)
Yes, this is where people seem to be going wrong on their installs even when they are using the signature solar US versions of the inverters. Losing the neutral is disastrous for 120V loads in the house and you don't want the hot legs of the autotransformer to ever be shut off or disconnected.
That's a decent idea, but my main lug for the growatt power shed panel has the lines that go to my house panel. I put red tape over my transformer breaker. Plus how would you put a breaker on the transformer?
Thanks! Can you do a video on the proper grounding for all of the components of this system?? To bond or not to bond, that is another question that everyone has a varying opinion.
Thanks again!
I would also appreciate elaborating on where to ground and bond neutral.
NEC says sub panels shouldn't have N bonded to G. I have my inverter and autotransformer feeding a sub panel with all my 120 volt loads. I am keeping my grounds and the neutral from the autotransformer un-bonded in accordance with the NEC. All the enclosures are bonded to ground and the neutral bar is connected to the autotransformer.
@@michaelciaio7495 that is correct! They can only be bonded at the main source. Which is usually the meter main or the main breaker panel.
can we see a video of the same setup but with the grid added to the equation?
I have it on my video.
So, I'm guessing the one I bought from watts247 has the bonding screw? Doesn't really matter in my use case since I am using it exclusively off grid with isolated & non-split-phase 120/240v transformers.
What type of isolated transformer? If you don't mind the question.
Nicky, open the unit up and remove the screw as required, Watts247 does not open your brand new unit to remove a screw as its not always possible to tell where this unit will be used.
Actually, take an ohm meter reading. Don't trust the screw thing. One lead to ground the other to neutral. You can get a 240 to 120 step down. We have one in the Philippines.
I purchased two of these units. I removed the covers just minutes ago. BOTH UNITS HAVE THE BONDING SCREWS INSTALLED.
I live in the USA.
Please advise, James.
Thanks.
You purchased 2 of these units.....ok, who did you purchase them from? Just remove the screw he shows and slip a rubber washer between the board and case.
Did you buy the from signature solar?
@@JM-yx1lm Yep. You got it that will solve your case contact and ground bonding right there.
YES, I bought them from Signature Solar. James’s statements are NOT true. My units both had the screw installed in the circuit board.
Actually heard another person say this on another forum and they always test their ground bonding now. Could be, who knows with current supply issues. Good job on looking into it SS.
If I were you, I would send a sticker to your customer with a US label or something for them to put on their unit. Also, have a website to verify if the serial number of the unit is a unit you sold and is the US version. So then you could say all our unit shipped now are marked with our logo and US designation, and if you are not sure, you can lookup the serial number on our website. That what I would do.
You need to check you inverters!! We bought ALL of our solar systems items from signature solar. We had a problem with the lights flicking and after a month of them trying to help figure out the problem. There solution was to open it and check if there was a screw in the board!! Guess what!! There is a screw. Now they are trying to say take it out it will be fine!!! What the heck. We asked them if they have seen the OWNERS video. They said that was an old video, and they have since then figured out it’s ok to remove the screw. Hummmm that’s alittle scary!!
The “smart owner” that blasts the other companies for telling coustomers its ok to remove the screw. Now changes their mind, and I should feel totally safe having these inverters in my home!!! I don’t trust this company!! I would be scared to purchase anything from them.
Well done. And good safety measure with breakers on each phase to protect the transformer. Will Prowse certainly didn't understand all the finer details. Logically, it would just be better to have a dedicated 120V inverter and move all the 240V stuff to DC or propane/natural gas.
That's what I did. All 240v loads are now propane.
THE 5000ES INVERTERS ARE THE BEST SYSTEM OUT THERE. Watch my load test and see what you think. I had over 10,000 watts of 120 loads. the system did awesome. some video bloggers are more concerned with affiliate pay then getting the truth out there. I had Ian from watts 247 call me before his video about midpoint transformers. he knew I would respond. he also did a video on the 5000-es inverter even though he knew the screw didn't bond the neutral and ground. yet he opened them up and pretended to be looking. sellers and vloggers with affiliate pay involved can produce misleading content.
Can someone tell me why these inverters put out high voltage high amperage ac through the pv in.
This is due to it being an all-in-one system - with both being tied, you can get leakage from each.
Hi, I was trying to flow you but I do not understand this stuff but trying to. what I want to do is take my off-grid setup I am doing from DC voltage to AC voltage I have done up to the point of DC voltage of 10 volts all the way up to 60 volts into an AC inverter to 110 volts AC but want to take the 110 AC voltage up to 240 volts AC how should I do this will that Auto transformer do this for me please help me out on info thanks.
Hi @stevenpleasant5834 You would require a step-up transformer to achieve this. If you would like to reach out to our sales department at 903-441-2090, they can help you find the components you need!
Want to bye the 5oo wat transferomer how much
Maybe explaining in an area where there is no construction noise.
Great Videos! I just do not understand why I would need the Autotransformer here in USA. It makes things more complicated for installation, additional point of failure, installation cost, etc
CAN I PUT THE GROWATT ats 114000t us OUTSIDE SINCE ITS SEALED...
It's IP65/NEMA type 4X, so it's suitable for outdoor use but the inverter should be protected from extreme temperatures, direct sunlight, and potential physical damage.
We need the dude banging in the background to go somewhere else with all the noise! Thanks for the video! Im interested in buying this setup soon!
We are going to clean this up, we just needed to get this info out ASAP.
I have serious doubts about this solution when applied in grid-bypass mode (in battery mode I haven’t noticed any issues on my setup): I’ve noticed very high current imbalance between the 120v legs in result of using the autotransformer. Please notice that in this video the inverter always functions in battery mode and works fine, but switching it in grid bypass mode, while possible, I find it hazardous. I understand that this grid-bypass issue happens because any small load imbalance induces a small voltage imbalance between the half-windings of the autotransformer, which in turn is compensated with very high current on one leg of the transmission line between pole transformer and autotransformer. This high current is meant to compensate for the voltage imbalance in the autotransformer with a voltage drop on one transmission line, which is known to have very small resistance-hence the high current.
Now to finish, this high current passes through the inverter (in grid bypass mode) so one leg would be driven to overload not because the inverter reached 5kW, but because the high current induced by the effect of load imbalance on the autotransformer. To make matters worse, a 5kva autotransformer even if perfectly balanced will never be able to sustain more than 2.5 kva per each leg. I have an isolated panel with few lights and other 120 and 240 loads but even then the load imbalance creates this high current. Adding a second autotransformer wont fix the effect of load imbalance in autotransformer thus won’t solve the issue of the induced high current imbalance. I trust this video was posted in good faith but unless I’m proven wrong I believe that anyone who has this solution implemented should take the time to check the current imbalance by measuring the current on each leg.
Fyi..The GW 3000 48 p I bought from you had a screw.
Mr.James, I get it the Autotransformer gives us the option of the Main Plane To have a Neutral leg and a L1 And L2 in the House Main Panel.Okay that means that now you can have Two Legs with a Neutral and Ground Bounding in the ( MAIN PANEL ) only in the Growatt inverter combo Autotransformer. So Never Bond a ( SUB-PANEL GROUND ). Okay, our friend in Vagas raised the Question on the Growatt 5000ES US Inverter your product and the European Growatt 5000se Inverter that has a bonding Screw in it. In witch Signature Solar does not sell, the European Bounded Growatt 5000se Inverters. So All Bonding is done at the ( House Main Panel )in the USA, not in any Sub-Panel. So the European inverter with the bonding screw would make itself the main panel to the house because of its bonding Screw. So then Electrical Distribution Panel / House Main Panel (NOW ) becomes a SUB-PANEL because of the bonding Screw in the European Growwatt 5000SE inverter. Good Looking out Mr.Vegas, love your channel also you are super smart thank you for the heads up.
please show me the bonding screw. the difference is actually the board in the inverter. the screw they point out doesn't bond anything.
I hear you stressing and using the word off grid quite a bit, but there are tons of us that are not using these totally off grid. You also advertise these as paired with the grid. I wonder why you stressed that so much and never mentioned on grid or paired with grid?
How do you know if the 5000es is the correct model for the united states? I have one and do not know if it is the north american model.
The only way we can guarantee that is if you bought it from us.
@@SignatureSolar I understand. I bought a EG4 battery and 48v charger from Signature solar but at that time your company did not have the Growatt 5000 es in stock so i bought somewhere else. I called Signature and was going to purchase the panels and went as far as getting a purchase order completed but in the interim ran into this Growatt issue regarding the grounding bond. I have decided to just continue using grid power, just now coming to the conclusion that it is just to much BS to deal with now. Maybe in 5 years or so the industry will have streamlined their technology and made it more user friendly. I guess I just wasted almost 1K buying the growatt! never buy their product again regardless of who is selling it!
I don’t live off grid but came across this given the drama over the 5000ES’s. 5000w of 120 is pretty common draw in my home. Power tools (shop vac + saw) is easily around 2500w, furnace fan is around 1000w each (have two), and always on computers, fridges, freezers, etc add up.
But the question is do you have more than 5000W of imbalance between the 120V loads on L1 vs the 120V loads on L2? The autotransformer only handles the imbalances between the 120V loads on the L1/L2 lines. The Engineering Mindset has a good video describing the flow of energy in a split phase system and how much imbalance runs through the neutral wire. th-cam.com/video/P-W42tk-fWc/w-d-xo.html
Paralleling inverters into a panel wouldn’t be all spitting out different phases?
@Richard from Signature Solar Good to know. I have a 12kw growatt from you guys and would like to run two of them in parallel so if one faults (because I’ve had random fantom issues) I would just loose half my capacity but still have the house powered up. An example is I went out of town for Christmas and the Growatt decided not to take in solar for the first time (a restart fixed it). If I didn’t get home before my batteries died I would have lost power. No power for furnace. House freezes and there go my water lines. I’m trying to have a redundant system so an issue like this won’t really bite me next time. Do you know if I’m running parallel inverters and one faults will it take out the other?
New discovery, at least for me. The legs on the output do not measure 120 and 120, not even close, they're somewhere around 103 and 137. That means you can connect it to your house main panel and turn off the grid and turn on your off grid. Massive imbalance on the legs. Thoughts?
you may be able to talk to Genetry Solar and get your own inverter produced
a low freq one with very low idle and all the bells and whistels
at a very close cost to what you are selling now
It's been two months since SS stated that they were urgently trying to cleanup this video and provide additional info. What happened? I see that you stopped selling transformers.
Omg, take this video down and re-film it. I cant focus with the insane hammering in the background!! Couldnt you of told them to stop for the filming!
with all the gear being tested live this was a working environment, we are improving this in the future.
You obviously don't have a wife or children. If you did you would have applied your selective hearing and it wouldn't be a problem
Are they building the house too??
So 5kva but it's only meant to balance loads. Problem is if your have a 5kw 240 only inverter and then use this transformer you can only get 25a*120v on one leg still. So 3000 watts still on one leg. Or better yet a 3,000 watt difference between leg one and leg 2. So I'm not really sure why they call it 5kw unit